Youngkin, UVa COVID Policy on a Collision Course

by James A. Bacon

The debate over COVID-19 policy rages unabated. Governor-elect Glenn Youngkin and Attorney General-elect Jason Miyares announced today their intention to challenge Biden-administration vaccine mandates through the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services, OSHA, and Head Start.

“While we believe that the vaccine is a critical tool in the fight against COVID-19, we strongly believe that the Federal government cannot impose its will and restrict the freedoms of Americans, and that Virginia is at its best when her people are allowed to make the best decisions for their families or businesses,” they said in a press release.

While Youngkin and Miyares were pushing one way, the University of Virginia was moving in the opposite direction.

In a communication to the UVa community, President Jim Ryan announced that the global spike in COVID-19 cases attributable to the Omicron variant had prompted him to take additional measures to prevent the spread. UVa is advancing the deadline for students, faculty and staff to get a COVID booster shot. The deadline — probably not a coincidence — is January 14, one day before Youngkin and Miyares take office.

Ryan said that advancing the booster deadline will dampen the spike in serious COVID-19 cases that could strain healthcare resources as well as university isolation and quarantine space. “We will ensure that the highest number of UVA community members possible are as protected as they can be from COVID-19 infection, serious illness, and hospitalization as the in-person semester gets underway.”

I share the Youngkin-Miyares view. I would urge most people to take the needle, but I would not compel them to do so. The COVID-19 virus is continually shifting, the science lags, the data is imperfect, and the interpretation (on all sides) of the science and data is driven largely by peoples’ political sympathies. Given those realities, citizens should be free to make their own choices based on their own risk assessments.

Many do not share that view. Many think that letting Virginians do what’s best for themselves individually will not optimize the public good. Of course, such people believe they know what’s best, others are mired in ignorance, and their views should prevail.

I’ve just finished listening to former FDA Commissioner Scott Gottlieb’s book, “Uncontrolled Spread.” While he points to political interference as a factor in America’s poor response to the epidemic, the inability to compile and report accurate and useful information on a timely basis was a systemic underlying failure. For instance, he cites the early belief, based upon influenza modeling in the absence of hard data, that COVID-19 could be spread by touching surfaces where the virus resided. But the virus was an airborne disease. Americans spent untold time and resources wiping down surfaces to no useful effect. (Well, there was one positive effect — all that wiping did stem the transmission of influenza.) Another example was Centers for Disease Control guidance that insisted that people stay six feet apart, forcing many schools to shut down because they had no room to provide that much separation. As it turned out, there was no scientific basis for that guidance.

Despite  massive volumes of data collected, there is so much that we don’t know.

For example, the Virginia Department of Health (VDH) keeps track of so-called “breakthrough infections” — a recognition of the reality that COVID vaccines, while largely effective, are not perfectly so. The VDH dashboard treats us to these factoids:


Among fully vaccinated Virginians 1.6% have developed COVID-19, o.o45% have been hospitalized, and o.o172% have died. That sounds pretty low. Indeed, VDH also tells us that unvaccinated people are three times more likely to get infected than the fully vaccinated, even more likely to be hospitalized, and even more likely to die.

That sounds pretty convincing. Indeed, I quoted that data in a post yesterday.

But, upon reflection, the data doesn’t help us much. We have gone through three phases of COVID-19 — the original strain of the virus, the Delta variant, and now the Omicron variant. Each successive strain was more transmissible than the previous wave. But Omicron appears to be significantly less deadly. Reporting case, hospitalization and death ratios in the aggregate for all three strains obscures what’s happening right now with Omicron.

Another example: once upon a time, we thought two shots of the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines would suffice to protect us. Then, it turned out, their protection faded. The Masters of the Universe then told us we needed a booster to maintain their efficacy. UVa (like many others) insisted that everyone get vaccinated… and then get the booster… regardless of whether they had developed natural immunities. Some say natural immunities fade more quickly than the vaccines, therefore vaccination mandates are justified. Some say natural immunities last longer. What do the data say?

The data say nothing because no one in Virginia has collected and reported it in a way that would answer the question. (Neither, it appears, has the CDC.) Not only do we not know the vaccines’ relative efficacy (compared to natural immunity) in reducing severe outcomes, we don’t know their relative efficacy in reducing transmission. The knowledge we lack is fundamental to making intelligent decisions. It is astonishing that such an information void persists two years into the epidemic.

The VDH and UVa data sets have another massive hole — they don’t tell us how many Virginians react badly to the vaccines. Anti-vaxxers point to the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS), in which individuals can report adverse events to Health and Human Services. At present, VAERS reports 17,142 adverse incidents in Virginia. Knowing that not all adverse events are reported, a big question is what multiplier we should use to get to the real number. Is the real number 35,000 million? Or 70,000? Surely that data is relevant to any decision whether or not to mandate a vaccine.

Finally, I have seen it widely reported (and rarely contradicted) that the severity of the illness varies with specific medical conditions such as obesity and Vitamin D deficiency. If this is so, why aren’t we collecting and reporting this data so individuals can make reasonable assessments of their vulnerability to the disease based on their personal risk profiles?

If a UVa student is young, has acquired natural immunities, is not obese and has no vitamin deficiencies, he or she appears to be at negligible risk of contracting and spreading COVID. UVa’s own data demonstrates that the spread of Omicron is spiking among faculty and staff, not students.

Daily and seven-day moving average new cases for UVa students.
Daily and seven-day moving average new cases for UVa faculty and staff.

 

Mandating vaccinations for faculty and staff, though morally troubling, is at least comprehensible from a public health perspective. For students, it’s not even comprehensible.

Too much of COVID policy, I fear, arises from groupthink based on imperfect knowledge derived from incomplete data. Like Youngkin and Miyares, I would err on the side of personal freedom.


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81 responses to “Youngkin, UVa COVID Policy on a Collision Course”

  1. James Kiser Avatar
    James Kiser

    So Bidens advisors have said that President Drool and Fauci policies have been a failure and a booster may be required every couple of months because the vaccines don’t last. It’s ridiculous get used to a flu virus created by the Chinese that isn’t going away. BTW all the school systems that accepted Chinese virus money need to return it as they are not staying open but using the money for bonuses as the City of Waynesboro did. Start with NYC, LA and Chicago who received over 10 billion dollars in Fed money.

  2. Nancy Naive Avatar
    Nancy Naive

    Feeling emboldened by that 6-3 political hack advantage? We’ll see. Kavanaugh and ACB have kids.

    Might as well repost here… with modifications.

    UVa Fraternity COVID test!
    1) Open a beer.
    2) Smell it. If you can smell the beer then continue test.
    3) Drink it.
    Results: If you can smell and taste the beer, the test is negative — you do not have COVID.

    I did the test 12 times last night and they all came up negative!

    I have to do the test again tonight because I woke up this morning with a headache and feeling really bad. I must’ve been expose sometime last night.

    1. It’s scary that the lib justices are making such an important decision with wrong information and spreading mis-information which would get them kicked off Twitter and Facebook. Justice Soto stated, “Those numbers show that Omicron is as deadly and causes as much serious disease in the unvaccinated as Delta did. . . . .We have over 100,000 children, which we’ve never had before, in serious condition and many on ventilators.”

    2. Stephen Haner Avatar
      Stephen Haner

      After how many beers did the mask come off? Before or after the underwear?

      If Biden wanted his OSHA empowered to impose a vaccine mandate, he could have put in a bill. Why didn’t he go that route in a Congress he sort of controls? Under the personnel laws, I think Northam has authority over his own workforce, but a new personnel officer can reverse that. The “work arounds” have gotten out of hand. And this is utter nonsense, total BS:

      “Prior to Covid, did you know that 99% of the ICU beds and hospitalizations and deaths were of the vaccinated?”WTF? That would be obviously false if posed either way. (Responding to Walter Smith.)

      1. Nancy Naive Avatar
        Nancy Naive

        Would it get the 60 for cloture? Not bloody likely. My mask is my underwear! Just have to remember which end gets the fresh pair.

        1. Stephen Haner Avatar
          Stephen Haner

          Well, if any bill cannot pass, does that mean any president can act by EO? Either we are about following the law or we aren’t.

          1. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            Filibuster ain’t the law, but just as dumb as most, I suppose. Money.

      2. Nancy Naive Avatar
        Nancy Naive

        Walt is one of your people. Listens to alt radio/Fox/podcast. Sucks it up,, spits it out.

        Read him carefully. “Prior to Covid”. He’s talking about MMR, Smallpox, Polio, etc. It’s just inanity. BUT a true statement.

        Biden won by a slim majority, and your side is cutting strength through covid deaths. How’s that suppose to work?

    3. DJRippert Avatar
      DJRippert

      Now, that was funny.

  3. LarrytheG Avatar
    LarrytheG

    On the flip side, how about the folks who HAVE gotten the shots – INCLUDING folks like JAB?

    Does that mean that all things considered that they DO BELIEVE the government and trust their recommendations – DESPITE the “imperfect” and DESPITE the personal liberty crappola?

    Or are they just SHEEPIE who wrongly put their trust in Government?

    Fence sitters too….. got some right here in BR… got the JAB but sympathetic to the “freedom folk’…. I won’t call it hypocrisy… nope…
    but it’s got a certain tang to it…

    😉

    1. Stephen Haner Avatar
      Stephen Haner

      Try to follow along. Yes, the vaccines work and all should take them. But that is a different question than should the executive branch of government, absent direct legal authority, be able to order a medical treatment, force somebody who doesn’t want the shot. On that, my answer is no. (But as noted I think employers can demand it of their employees, and lose no sleep over that.) Could Congress give that power to OSHA? Arguably yes. But it never has, and this is hardly the first communicable disease. Just the first one Loved by the Left.

      Does a Board of Visitors or university prez have the power to dictate a health measure necessary to be present on campus? Don’t know. But the law DOES have precdent there with other vaccines.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        Does the Fed Govt, right now, mandate vaccines for everyone? What Govt leader is advocating that?

        “loved by the left”?

        yeah, uh huh

        do you think these same folks are going to carry that view to other vaccines for themselves and their kids?

        think not?

        the “left” NEVER changed their attitudes toward vaccines – it’s the same now as it was before. correct?

        so who has changed? not the left…..

      2. Nancy Naive Avatar
        Nancy Naive

        EO? Well, UVa is SOL. They take Fed$. And over Fed$, the Admin has absolute control, including mandating vaccines, or even something far more odious like, oh say, turning women into Rats.

        Even SCOTUS will not blunt the WH spear when Fed$ are taken.

      3. Eric the half a troll Avatar
        Eric the half a troll

        “On that, my answer is no. (But as noted I think employers can demand it of their employees, and lose no sleep over that.)”

        Can we drill down on this a bit? I am way more comfortable with a representative government setting such mandates (one that I can vote out of power or even impeach if power is truly abused) versus an employer who is in no way answerable to me or my co-workers and does not even ostensibly have my best interest at heart. Often, they openly state this… see Massey priority statements for example (1st customer, 2nd shareholder, 3rd employee, 4th greater community). Be aware that, in this case, I have no issue with either entity issuing mandates. If I were against one though, it would be the employer.

      4. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
        Dick Hall-Sizemore

        I wanted to come down on the side of supporting the OSHA rule, but, after reading summaries of the arguments of both sides before the Supreme Court, I can’t.

        I don’t buy the opponents’ arguments that the rule is illegal because it will cause “vast” disruptions in the economy. If an agency has the authority to issue a rule and feels it is necessary to do to protect workers, then the effects on the economy should not be a barrier.

        Neither do I buy the argument that the question should be put to Congress. First, of all, if the law gives the agency general authority to enact regulations, it should not have to go to Congress for authority in specific instances. Second, the proponents of such an argument are being somewhat disingenuous; they know that the Senate, having made it plain that it will obstruct anything the Biden administration wants, would never pass such a law. Also, it takes months, at best, to get even the simplest legislation through Congress. COVID, and its omicron variant, are wreaking havoc now.

        But I do agree with the argument that OSHA was set up to protect workers’ safety and health from conditions specific to the workplace. COVID is a threat everywhere, not just the workplace. Perhaps a vaccination mandate could be justified for specific industries, such as the meatpacking industry, in which workers must work in close proximity to each other, but that would not apply to every business employing more than 100 people. And, if it is needed to protect workers in those larger businesses, why don’t the workers in smaller businesses also deserve the same protection?

        The Justices seemed more amenable to the CMS mandate for health-care facilities, mainly on the principle that, “if you take my money, you adide by my rules.” As Chief Justice Roberts said to the Missouri AG, “You signed the contract,” agreeing to CMS rules designed to protect the health of patients and staff.

        1. LarrytheG Avatar
          LarrytheG

          Workplaces can stipulate that employees get vaccinated for other diseases, especially those that interact with others and customers.

          Restaurant workers are not free to work even if they have tuberculosis or other contagious disease.

          Conservatives are looking for “carve outs” that apply primarily to Covid, not generalized approaches that would apply for most diseases and workplace situations.

          this is all about the politics for Conservatives.

          If a Walmart or Lowes worker got infected with Ebola or some other terrible disease and continued to work with management knowledge and passed it on to a customer, Conservatives also, would be up in arms about it.

          The COVID thing is political gamesmanship – that Conservative are accusing Liberals of – but take a look at their behaviors..

          Liberals have pretty much ALWAYS had a consistent position on vaccines, diseases, and public health policies, no matter whether it is Ebola or Covid. They have not changed.

          IMHO of course.

          1. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
            Dick Hall-Sizemore

            It is not a question of the attitudes toward vaccinations or whether there should be vaccination mandates, but a question of whether OSHA has the legal authority to require businesses to mandate vaccination of their employees.

          2. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            Right. But OSHA is the same govt that can shut down businesses for safety reasons. OSHA is just an arm of the Govt and it’s authority is derived from the Govt authority.

            You could have the FAA shutting down an airport or grounding an airliner.

            or even Virginia shutting down a dirty eating establishment or a doc-in-the-box for not meeting safety standards?

            If you say that OSHA does not have that authority, then is the same true of other govt agencies on a similar basis?

          3. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
            Dick Hall-Sizemore

            An agency’s regulatory is derived from statutory. It is not unlimited, but limited to the provisions set out in the statute. Yes, OSHA can sanction or shut down a business for violation of safety regulations adopted for that industry. And, you miss my point: COVID is not a health risk related to the business, as such. An employee walking away from his place of work and going to the grocery store is also subject to exposure to COVID.

          4. Cathis398 Avatar
            Cathis398

            OSHA’s standards go far beyond “for that industry.” they have many standards that apply “to the workplace,” and that include all kinds of conditions that can happen anywhere. See https://www.osha.gov/laws-regs/regulations/standardnumber/1910

          5. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            For me, it’s the 100 employees thing, as if 99 are safe. But, gotta start someplace.

        2. Cathis398 Avatar
          Cathis398

          i’ve heard the “COVID is a threat everywhere, not just the workplace” argument, and I confess I haven’t done the research to find out what this means in practice. but.

          it is surely not the case that only conditions that happen in “the workplace” are covered by OSHA regulations. OSHA regulates things like protection from falls, fire prevention, and on and on, conditions that occur everywhere as well as the workplace. I don’t even know what “specific to the workplace” would mean if construed as narrowly as people seem to be saying is–no eye protection for people in metalworking shops, because our eyes are always vulnerable to flying debris?

  4. Nancy Naive Avatar
    Nancy Naive

    Alito just buried the draft forever. He’s hanging his hat on vaccine risk. If there is any risk in the vaccine, the government cannot mandate it. No risk in war, eh, Justice?

  5. VT is requiring the same, plus a bit more……. also – the US has not collected the necessary data to help make informed decisions? SHOCKED! China Joe should ask TikTok to collect the data – it already much of it and since Hunter is a major benefactor of that endeavor the Prez as an ‘in’….. finally….. the best Presidential PSA to date about C-19 https://twitter.com/nayibbukele/status/1478201251737317385

  6. The answer is simple according to China Joe: C-19 doesn’t spread in companies of 99 or fewer – as per his OSHA policy’s focus. Break up large companies into smaller units….

  7. This just in….. Covid-19 about to be crushed as Joe had promised as the CDC Director is getting some media training — that’ll solve it. [Sigh of relief]

  8. LarrytheG Avatar
    LarrytheG

    Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t Northam delegate at least some of these decisions to the Colleges and Youngkin and his supporters want to Mandate top-down?

    Northam delegated many of the decisions also to K-12 despite all the claptrap about Northam “mandating” and “shutting down” ( we had some of the largest sales and meals tax revenues ever this past year).

    Youngkin, is sliding toward the DeSantis/Abbot way….. looks like…. we’ll see.

    1. Eric the half a troll Avatar
      Eric the half a troll

      Yes, where is the anti-“one size fits all” Conservative policy crowd these days….. crickets….

  9. Stephen Haner Avatar
    Stephen Haner

    Jim, I was just on the VDH website looking at the vaccinated vs unvaccinated numbers, week by week. Updated every Friday. For the four weeks most recently compiled, the four weeks of omicron, the gap on infections and hospitalizations is far higher now than it was back in the spring with the older strain or in the summer with delta. Look in particular at hospitalizations per 100K. That is proof, proof of the efficacy of vaccines (and also now reflects the booster.) This whole line of political resistance has cost lives and will continue to do so. Your vacillation over the past year has been fascinating but impossible to track.

    I know there are those who believe VDH and CDC are simply lying. I cannot deal with that level of paranoia. They are the ones (for example) spreading BS rumors that Betty White died right after getting her booster, and similar vicious nonsense, forcing the family to dispute it.

    1. Nancy Naive Avatar
      Nancy Naive

      Or the weakness of Omicron… let’s rack up some dead unvaccinated just to be sure.

    2. I’d love to see that graph. Can you post it?

        1. Stephen Haner Avatar
          Stephen Haner

          But focus on the past few weeks….look at the slope as the gap widens with omicron. TEN to one in the most recent week.

        2. LarrytheG Avatar
          LarrytheG

          serious enough to go into the ER… does not count as deaths even if the ERs are overwhelmed with people with the disease…

          It’s just lines on a chart anyhow…

          see how easy it is to rationalize?

          1. DJRippert Avatar
            DJRippert

            I assume you agree that the US Government should reduce the national speed limit to 15 mph. That would virtually eliminate highway fatalities. Otherwise, those charts of fatal highway crashes are just lines on a chart …

            easy to rationalize.

        3. walter smith Avatar
          walter smith

          Apples and oranges and maybe an irrelevant measuring point. And already wrong because almost no one is now “fully vaccinated” or as Mini-Mengele now says “up to date.”
          Anyway, when that chart started, no one was vaccinated and the ration was 1000 to 1. Over time, the numerator and denominator have been in constant flux. So the only thing of any sorta value would be for a discrete period like a week or month. And that would have all sorts of variations. Further, you have regionality, age of the area, overall health of the area. You also have the “with” and “from” Covid distinction. Did you know that everybody who ever ate carrots died?

        4. Stephen Haner Avatar
          Stephen Haner

          But focus on the past few weeks….look at the slope as the gap widens with omicron. TEN to one in the most recent week.

          Looked it up. Four weeks ending Xmas Day, among the vaccinated (per 100K) there were 436 infections, 8 hospitalized. Among the no-vax, 3,753 infections and 87 hospitalized (again, per 100K). The benefits of vaccination are stellar. In that four weeks (and it has been worse since), 4% of the no-vax people got sick. In a month.

          1. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            Yes, that is quite dramatic!!

          2. DJRippert Avatar
            DJRippert

            I hate to say it but I seriously doubt those numbers. 436 infections per 100,000 vaccinated people? I know dozens of people who are fully vaccinated and have gotten (presumably) Omicron COVID. Many used home tests and I doubt they ever made it into the official numbers. Fortunately, none have been hospitalized or worse.

            There is no way that the recent infection rate for vaccinated people is .436 of 1%.

            No way. Even for four weeks.

          3. Fully vaxed now means BOOSTED. So how many of those unvaxxed hospitalizations were actually vaxed, just not boosted?

    3. walter smith Avatar
      walter smith

      I think the data shows that Omicron is the least deadly and if there is a version to catch, that is it. But I don’t think you can make any assertion about overall effectiveness based on a snap shot. The weekly comparisons are at least closer to apples to apples, but…Prior to Covid, did you know that 99% of the ICU beds and hospitalizations and deaths were of the vaccinated? (I am assuming that 99% of people get the normal vaccines) But see how easy it is to create a meaningless statistic? Of the “unvaxed” in the hospitals, are they in the hospital “with” or “for” Covid? Are they of an unhealthier demographic anyway? It is a cherry picked statistic. I am against the mandate as a bureaucratic mandate. It is illegal. It is unconstitutional (in my opinion). It violates the Nuremberg Code and the Belmont Report – fact. When did that become OK?
      There is so much we don’t know. The kids do not have an obligation to participate in a medical experiment to protect you. Or me. The vaccine only strategy is a failure. How many people are hospitalized who would have been fine with aggressive therapeutic treatment? This has been a crime against humanity of incalculable proportion.
      How is it that the “vaccinated” are getting sick? How is it that the Omicron is really hitting the “vaccinated” at a much higher rate now than the previous breakthrough infections? Is it possible (it is) that Omicron mutated to get around the vaccine? You don’t know, and neither do I. But in the absence of hard data, in the absence of a real passed law, in violation of international protocols, it is immoral to force unwilling people to get an experimental shot. I don’t think that is that hard to comprehend. And don’t say it is a civic duty. If you go that way, then old people, who consume too much medical care have a duty to die. The stupid have a duty not to vote. The fat don’t deserve medical care (and they are disproportionately the ones dying of Covid, right?). The decision, in the absence of FDA approval (the boosters are all EUA, Comirnity is not available yet) and a law passed, the decision belongs to the individual. Try persuasion. This is just a variation of Buck v Bell…

      1. Should the government be able to force you to wear a tinfoil hat?

        1. walter smith Avatar
          walter smith

          If it can force you to participate in a medical experiment in violation of international protocols, it can force a tin foil hat…but all you Leftists have depleted the supply. Oh, and a belated Happy Insurrection Day to you!

          1. I’m far from leftist, but next to you, pretty much everyone is.

        2. Has the USG required any other vaccine of us citizens in the past? I thought it had always been a State law?

      2. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        Let’s see. Omicron is LESS Deadly but the hospitals and ERs are overwhelmed and worried that it will get worse so now they’re telling me to NOT come to the ER UNLESS they really are sick?

        Some day, maybe all of this will subside… but the nutjobs will still be among us… just waiting for the next “opportunity”…

        1. walter smith Avatar
          walter smith

          Overwhelmed? According to who? With what? How different from regular seasonality? Meanwhile Larry – do you just obey anyone in authority? Why was there a Nuremberg trial? Is following orders a defense? What if your idols are wrong? Is it even possible? Do you think they have covered themselves with glory so far? How come the isolation is now 5 days? Which is deadlier to the average person – poverty or Covid? So making a healthy American lose his job is better…how?

          1. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            overwhelmed according to Fredericksburg hospitals that are asking people to stay away from the ER unless they have a legitimate life-threatening emergency.

            They’re advising people to get finger pulsometers to check their own oxygen levels BEFORE they show up at the ER.

            re: ‘authority’. Yep.. I do. When the Dr. says put on a mask for your appointment, I do. When the blue lights go on behind me I pull over.

            Do you give up your weapon when you go to an airport like the other sheepie?

            Walter, are you saying that virtually every country in the world has violated Nuremberg?

            I’m curious. Do you think someone who has tuberculosis has the “right” to work and cook and serve your food no matter how you feel?

          2. walter smith Avatar
            walter smith

            Larry -you are befuddled. There is legitimate authority, such as a speed limit. The “anti-vax” point which means you are too afraid to actually speak honestly is that the mandates are being imposed by edict and without sufficient proof. Yes, everywhere a shot is mandated of an experimental medical product is a violation of the Nuremberg Code. So, simply on the basis of international law and for which doctors were executed, the mandate is illegal and a crime against humanity.
            Next, it is unconstitutional in my opinion. But, let’s suppose the FDA approves it and it is available and the legislature passes a requirement to get that shot, then there should be a religious and a medical exception as has been the case since vaccines were LEGISLATIVELY mandated. And, my opinion, Jacobson will eventually be overturned to match up with my body my choice.
            There is plenty to debate medically and I don’t think you can support the shot for any healthy person 30 and under, but that is not the point. The point is the jab jab jab (jab ad infinitem?) is an experimental product. Federal law requires accept or refuse. Nuremberg Code and Belmont Report require willing, informed consent. Every medical system has a patients’ rights policy that says the patient has the right to accept or refuse medical treatment. The doctor patient relationship is being destroyed, as is doctors’ right to practice medicine. Our society has been scared fecal matter less for a virus less deadly than the flu, and we are ruled by bureaucratic edict. Yes, I have a problem with all that.

      3. 💯 Agree!

    4. Sort of like saying I acknowledge seat belts save lives, but the government shouldn’t overstep its bounds and force me to wear one.

      1. DJRippert Avatar
        DJRippert

        Or motorcycle helmets, which are optional in some states. Yes, you get it.

        1. How many states don’t require helmets for anyone?

        2. I got tired of waiting. There are 3 states — out of 50 — with no helmet requirement of any sort. False equivalency. And yes, you get it.

  10. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
    Dick Hall-Sizemore

    I don’t understand this obsession with UVa’s vaccination policy. Reading this blog, one would think that UVa is a radical outlier on vaccinations. Nothing could be further from the truth. I did not check the policy of every state institution, but the ones I did check, listed below, do require staff and students to be vaccinated and have a booster shot (if eligible) in order to return for spring semester. The only exception is Longwood, which does not require students to have had a booster shot, but strongly encourages it. In addition, Tech and ODU require students living on campus to have proof of negative COVID test before returning to campus.

    VCU

    https://together.vcu.edu/spring-2022-info/

    W&M

    https://www.wm.edu/sites/pathforward/students/index.php

    Tech

    https://vtx.vt.edu/articles/2021/12/president-spring2022-message.html

    JMU

    https://www.jmu.edu/stop-the-spread/students/covid-vaccine-faq.shtml#fall-2021-vaccination-requirement

    GMU

    https://www.gmu.edu/safe-return-campus

    Longwood

    http://www.longwood.edu/news/2021/update-for-students-about-vaccine-plans/

    ODU

    https://www.odu.edu/news/2022/1/covid_19_update_spri#.Ydly-llOnIU

    1. LarrytheG Avatar
      LarrytheG

      UVA (and VMI) ARE Obsessions in this blog, clearly!

      All things “liberal” and “radical” are personified in the evil that is UVA!

      Conservatives seem to have tunnel vision on issues…like this… it don’t matter if a bunch of other schools in Va and the US also have these policies, it’s UVA that needs to be nailed by Youngkin.

      I think we’re getting a whiff of what some folks really want Youngkin to do – the Culture War on steroids…. go get em Gov!

      And to be honest, given his pick for DEQ and joining the other states on the mandates – he may well be full bore culture war to the joy of the warriors in BR.

    2. Dick, I focus on UVa because I’m a UVa alumnus and belong to the Jefferson Council, a group focused on UVa governance. It’s that simple.

      1. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
        Dick Hall-Sizemore

        I realize that, but it seems that it would be fairer to acknowledge that UVa is not unique in some of its policies

    3. Nancy Naive Avatar
      Nancy Naive

      One word; R-Y-A-N

      And, “hate induced tunnel vision”

      1. You have no idea what you’re talking about. You just spew garbage.

        1. Nancy Naive Avatar
          Nancy Naive

          Your obsession with UVa is self-evident. It is you who single it out, and Ryan is guilty of all you see as wrong.

          I only report my observations.

  11. Nancy Naive Avatar
    Nancy Naive

    Another one bites the dust.
    Another one bites the dust.
    And another one’s gone, another one’s gone,
    Another one bites the dust…
    https://www.thedailybeast.com/qanon-star-cirsten-weldon-who-said-only-idiots-get-vaccinated-dies-of-covid?scrolla=5eb6d68b7fedc32c19ef33b4

    1. Eric the half a troll Avatar
      Eric the half a troll

      I do not celebrate when the mentally impaired fall victim to their own disability. This is not a tongue-in-cheek comment. She was clearly in need of professional aid.

      1. Nancy Naive Avatar
        Nancy Naive

        Nobody is celebrating her demise, only for the lives of those who will not die as a result of listening to her.

  12. tmtfairfax Avatar
    tmtfairfax

    I thought that making personal health care decisions was protected by the right of privacy based on Roe v. Wade and its progeny.

    Moreover, there is no statutory authority for OSHA to issue a vaccine mandate. The media idiots worry about the status of our democracy but can’t figure out these issues.

    1. Eric the half a troll Avatar
      Eric the half a troll

      Public health trumps personal healthcare rights. As simple as that. Always has and always will.

    2. Nancy Naive Avatar
      Nancy Naive

      People have been charged for knowingly spreading AIDS. Kinda stops being a personal decision when an indictment is involved.

    3. LarrytheG Avatar
      LarrytheG

      If you make decisions – that can affect others, possibly harm others….

      is that ‘personal’ ?

      Say you have HIV and you knowingly infect another?

      is that ‘personal’ ?

      or you have tuberculosis but you continue to work as a cook in a restaurant.. “personal” ?

  13. Nancy Naive Avatar
    Nancy Naive

    “The core message for higher education institutions is that colleges and universities with many types of federal contracts or “contract-like instruments” valued above $250,000 will be required to ensure that their employees and subcontractors—including student employees–be vaccinated.”

    So, either Ryan mandates vaccines, or the Fed DoE will.

    The only mandate that is on a rickety platform is OSHA’s on private employers not subject to taking Fed$. The Conservative SCOTUS didn’t spend the last 20 years building a king-like executive to undo it all now.

    PS, always love the SCOTUS set asides, and cutouts. Lawyers arguing before the bench must be vaccinated and test negative. All others by Zoom. Did you know they moved the lawyers benches back another 15 feet recently? Like Moe famously said, “Spread out!”

    Protest an abortion clinic? Sure, just stand back 10 feet. Protest SCOTUS? Other side of the street for you.

    1. LarrytheG Avatar
      LarrytheG

      “Justice Amy Coney Barrett declined a request to block Indiana University’s vaccine mandate, signaling that similar policies going into effect amid a Covid-19 surge could pass legal muster.

      Barrett, who has jurisdiction over the appeals court involved in the case, acted alone without referring the matter to the full court.

      Barrett’s action marks the first time the justices have been asked to weigh in on the legality of a mandate that private and public entities increasingly believe will combat the spread of Covid-19.”

      That was then (Aug 21), this is now and so things can change but SCOTUS is going to find itself in a pickle if they get into the business of deciding which entities can mandate and which cannot. If they start down that path, there will be dozens, hundreds of cases for the entities not covered in prior decisions.

      Here’s the essential question IMHO.

      Suppose this was a disease like Smallpox or Ebola except 5 times more transmissible. Would the govt have the right to mandate vaccinations in that case?

      Is SCOTUS going to get into the business of deciding what diseases the govt can mandate shots and which ones not?

      Is that what Conservatives really want?

      1. Nancy Naive Avatar
        Nancy Naive

        Of course, they may also see things like this…
        https://www.dshs.texas.gov/immunize/covid19/data/vaccination-status.aspx

        They’re observations, not facts, but the facts are clear to see.

      2. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
        Dick Hall-Sizemore

        There is a big difference between Barrett’s decision on Indiana University and the case before the Court yesterday. In the former case, she upheld the right of an entity to voluntarily require its employees and students to be vaccinated. The latter case is about the authority of the federal government to require large (100 or more employees) to have vaccination mandates.

        1. LarrytheG Avatar
          LarrytheG

          Yes, but it looks like they may view College requirements differently than the Govt requirement for companies.

          The real question might be , can it be
          said that there will never be any circumstances what-so-ever where the govt should never have such authority, no matter how dire the circumstance?

          For instance, the govt CAN shut down any company where it has determined there is a threat to life of the workers or those living in proximity.

          You gonna take that authority away?

          It sounds like some folks want that authority changed on a per issue basis by legislation. What’s in the Constitution with respect to police powers?

      3. Nancy Naive Avatar
        Nancy Naive

        They are not above illogical self-inflicted foot wounds now that the majority are ideological.

  14. walter smith Avatar
    walter smith

    Seriously folks. Get a grip. I am pretty sure I know more about the medical and historical and legal aspects of the Covid “vaccine” and vaccination policy and the law than anyone commenting here. But, unlike most, I acknowledge that I don’t know what I don’t know.
    None of you “know” if the experimental shot is safe. According to VAERS many have died – at a rate over 40 times greater than the previous yearly high 0f 223. What we don’t know is what is the under-reporting factor? Is it 1 or is it 41 (Steve Kirsch’s mathematically derived estimate)? This matters. But let’s get away from the scientific arguments, which is a waste of time with people who don’t know what they are talking about and are just rooting for their team (Looking at you, Larry).
    So UVA is about free speech and preservation of concepts of individual liberties (and again, most of you will be idiots parroting he owned slaves and not knowing anything other than the Leftist narrative.) And, did you know that we are supposed to be a Constitutional Republic, not a pure democracy, and part of that reason is to protect the rights of the minority? To avoid the tyranny of a pure democracy and the madness of crowds? And yet UVA continues to issue mandates willy-nilly without any public input. Just the “experts” telling us what to do…like slaveholders! Students aren’t chattel. Or must they get a shot they don’t need for you? Why?
    What does Larry’s “SCIENCE!” say? How come people who dissent get censored? Why aren’t the arguments engaged?
    What is the proper balance?
    We had it – it was each State had required, legislatively approved and enacted, vaccinations and most people got them, with religious and medical exceptions. But all of those were for long accepted, proven, real vaccines – not an experimental product. Further, how come no State ever mandated a flu shot? Hmmm?
    Life has risks. It is a very dangerous risk that you Leftist, authoritarian idiots have the right to vote and are intent on destroying freedom, but I am trying persuasion (by being nice and not calling you bad names!). Try persuasion and quit violating human dignity (and the Nuremberg Code – seriously – what is wrong with you people!).

    1. Nancy Naive Avatar
      Nancy Naive

      Yes doctor esquire. Or is it esquire doctor? When will you hang a shingle or two?

      1. walter smith Avatar
        walter smith

        Why are you qualified to comment? What do you know?
        I have never seen anything from you other than snark. So, I have no respect for your very valuable degree in Snarkology. I guess they didn’t have a Womyn’s Studies major back in the day? (And I know you are a guy – at least so you “identify.”)
        It would be a pleasant surprise to see you say anything substantive. At least Larry tries, even if he is only repeating his MSDNC talking points…
        Meanwhile, enjoy your smugness and complacency with violating the Nuremberg Code…

        Oh, and I AM a doctor. You know Jill Biden is a helluva doctor. I am a Juris Doctor. So there

        1. Nancy Naive Avatar
          Nancy Naive

          Say, I got this speeding ticket…

          Apology to the author, “Is not this a lamentable thing, that the skin of an innocent lamb should be made parchment, that parchment, being scribbl’d o’er, should make this a lawyer?”

          Close Cover Before Striking School of Law, no doubt.

  15. Cathis398 Avatar
    Cathis398

    trying to understand what the “collision course” is here… do you have any evidence that Youngkin plans to prevent specific state agencies from having their own COVID policies? let alone quasi-state agencies like UVa?

    or is this just an extra-dramatic way of saying that Youngkin and UVa seem to have different ideas about how to handle COVID? without any specific knowledge of what Youngkin’s own policies will be (vs his legal challenges to Biden’s orders)?

    here’s a more dramatic question: what do you suppose Youngkin’s policies for the Office of the Governor will be? masks & vaccines both voluntary?

    1. My thought was that Youngkin and UVa are on a philosophical collision course. Youngkin is anti-mandate. Ryan believes in mandates. Indeed, the timing of Ryan’s announcement suggests that he advanced the deadline in order to create a fait accompli before Youngkin becomes governor — probably not something that Youngkin will appreciate.

  16. Merchantseamen Avatar
    Merchantseamen

    Everyone I know that has been jabbed are coming down with covid. Some for the second time. The un jabbed I know have not succumbed to covid. They have been doing therapeutics and have not contracted any infections. So..with that being said I don’t trust, The Elf, CDC, VDH or other “experts”. Now I am not saying the un jabbed will not get it. But blaming a segment of the population for it problems smacks of 1930’s and the German Jew’s and the 1950’s and the American Negros. Always blame somebody to instill the fear and distraction. Then your precious politicians are doing something else detrimental while you are looking the other way.

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