Youngkin and Confederate Heritage

by Donald Smith

Does the Virginia GOP want the help and support of the Confederate heritage community? We should get a pretty good indicator this week.

Three bills just passed by the General Assembly will soon land on Governor Youngkin’s desk, if they haven’t already. They will remove the tax exemptions of the United Daughters of the Confederacy and the Stonewall Jackson Memorial House in Lexington, and stop further issuance of the General Robert E. Lee and Sons of Confederate Veterans license plates (but not recall existing ones). The governor will have only seven days to sign, veto, or let them become law without his signature.

That is plenty of time. Plenty of time for him to do the right thing, and veto them.

Now would be a good time for the governor and his party to take note of an observation made by a noted Confederate heritage partisan — Bill Maher, the comedian and political commentator who hosts the show Real Time with Bill Maher. On the episode that aired days after Governor Youngkin’s election, Maher noted that, in the 2020 presidential election, only four Virginia counties voted 70% or more Republican. In the 2021 governor’s election, 44 did. Maher then showed a map of the strongest areas of GOP turnout. Many were counties where support for Confederate heritage is strong.  

Smart politicians take care of their bases. Especially near election time. There are statewide elections for U.S. senator this year and for governor, lieutenant governor and attorney general next year. Republican strategists probably presume that voters who support Confederate heritage are unlikely to vote for Democrats, no matter how unhappy they are. That’s probably true. But they may choose to not vote at all. Or they might sit on their wallets when WinRed and other GOP fundraisers come calling. (If memory serves, Virginia Democrats are flush with cash and can always get more. Can the state GOP say the same?)

It is human nature to think fondly of your ancestors. (Look at the popularity of Ancestry.com and the PBS TV series Finding Your Roots). It is also human nature to think poorly of anyone who allows your ancestor’s legacies to be treated with indifference or contempt. Especially when you understand that, if you’d lived back in the times your ancestors lived, you’d most likely have thought and acted the same way they did. Bill Maher pointed this out in a September 2022 episode, where he criticized the adherents of “presentism:”

In today’s world, when truth conflicts with narrative, it’s the truth that has to apologize.  Being woke is like a magic moral time machine, where you judge everyone against what you would have done in 1066, and you always win. Presentism is just a way to congratulate yourself about being better than George Washington because you have a gay friend and he didn’t. But if he were alive today, he would too. And if you were alive then, you wouldn’t.”

Do woke whites honestly think that, if they’d been in Virginia in 1861, they wouldn’t have joined the Confederate Army? That they wouldn’t have thought of whites as superior to people of color? They’re kidding themselves. That’s what virtually all whites thought back then.

The Democrats have succumbed to presentism and wokeism. Everyone knows it. Everyone sees it. People are sick of wokeists. Many yearn for some elected official, any elected official, to stand up to the silly people. Instead, too many officials flinch before them. Many of us who take pride in Virginia and its heritage expect our leaders to defend that heritage. Especially when defending that heritage is easily justified. 

Why should the governor care if The Washington Post, Richmond-Times Dispatch, Virginian-Pilot and other Virginia MSM outlets whine if he vetoes the bills? If you want to get the measure of today’s American mainstream media (MSM) culture, read Adam Rubenstein’s account of his time at The New York Times, the pinnacle of American journalism.  

On one of my first days at The New York Times, I went to an orientation with more than a dozen other new hires. We had to do an icebreaker: Pick a Starburst out of a jar and then answer a question. My Starburst was pink, I believe, and so I had to answer the pink prompt, which had me respond with my favorite sandwich. Russ & Daughters’ Super Heebster came to mind, but I figured mentioning a $19 sandwich wasn’t a great way to win new friends. So I blurted out, “The spicy chicken sandwich from Chick-fil-A,” and considered the ice broken.

The HR representative leading the orientation chided me: “We don’t do that here. They hate gay people.” People started snapping their fingers in acclamation. I hadn’t been thinking about the fact that Chick-fil-A was transgressive in liberal circles for its chairman’s opposition to gay marriage. “Not the politics, the chicken,” I quickly said, but it was too late. I sat down, ashamed.

Done laughing yet, or rolling your eyes? Great—there’s more! Read James Bennett’s account of his NYT experiences. Or Bari Weiss’.  I’m confident that, if most Virginia MSM reporters were offered a job at the NYT, they’d crawl over broken glass to get it. Snapping their fingers the whole way. The media is one of the least-respected institutions in America. Why let yourself be pushed around by it? By people who get snippy at the mention of Chick-Fil-A? People who are “figures of fun,” as the British would say. Or, as Robert E. Lee would probably have put it, “those people.”

Governor Youngkin can easily justify vetoing all three bills. All he needs to do, when the wokeists whine, is quote Jim Bacon, who said that these bills “are born of bitter spite, and they open an ugly can of worms.” (If he wants to rub it in, Youngkin could eat a spicy Chick-Fil-A sandwich in front of the reporters as he announces his vetoes. Slowly. Savoring each bite.)

Governors have veto powers to check spiteful and reckless legislatures. We expect the men and women we’ve elected to high office to act when the times and circumstances call for them to act. Josh Shapiro, the Democrat governor of Pennsylvania, knows that. I’ll let National Review’s Charles Cooke take it from here: (Emphasis added)

Governor Josh Shapiro of Pennsylvania seems to have worked out what ought to have been entirely obvious to everyone lo these many years: That the easiest way to defeat the silliest people within our society is simply to tell them “No.” Having learned that the Biden administration intended to remove a statue of William Penn from Philadelphia’s Welcome Park, Governor Shapiro contacted the president and told him that this was a remarkably bad idea. In consequence, the plans were changed. Easy, huh?

In parenting, showing up is half the game. In politics, saying “No” fulfills the same role. At present, certain people seem determined to impose their terrible ideas on American society at breakneck pace, in the hope that everyone else will be overwhelmed into submission. When one says “No,” one thwarts this approach at the outset. Going forward, more politicians ought to try it.

Shapiro didn’t have to say or do anything. He could have foisted the blame off on the Biden administration. But he didn’t stay silent. He stepped up. He took action. He led. If Democrats can stand up to their own wokeists, certainly a Republican governor can, too. 

We’ll have a better idea where the governor, and his party, stand at the end of the week.

Note: This column was edited to reflect that Robert E. Lee and SCV license plates would not be recalled by the bills passed this session. 

 


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Comments

128 responses to “Youngkin and Confederate Heritage”

  1. A fascinating moment! Please keep us posted.

    Lee and Jackson are my heroes. I call on both in my work.

  2. Turbocohen Avatar
    Turbocohen

    POLL: The year is 1861 and a war is brewing. At that time the vast majority of Virginians are Democrats, and that includes many Republicans amongst us of today. In that era, before war broke out, in all liklihood which side were you on? https://www.facebook.com/groups/virginiagop/posts/3675137056092321/

    1. Stephen Haner Avatar
      Stephen Haner

      My Virginia family were farmers in SW Virginia, and for the longest time I assumed they were not slaveholders. It was less common in those areas. A peek at the 1860 census straightened me out. The main family property, Sinking Springs on the New near Dublin, ran with quite a few slaves. My great-great grandpa, who served in the war, had slaves on his farm on Wolf Creek in Bland Co.

      I think the Jackson House exemption is meaningless now, as the property may have changed hands. They spared Lee’s family home from the bill. Nor sure the Governor will fall on his saber for the UDC HQ in Richmond and some license plates, which I’m sure will never be turned back in to DMV anyway but will now be displayed on windshields or truck bumpers instead. Every owner will show it off somehow.

      1. James Wyatt Whitehead Avatar
        James Wyatt Whitehead

        I believe VMI owns the Jackson House. Technically state property?

      2. Donald Smith Avatar
        Donald Smith

        How would vetoing these bills constitute “falling on his sword?” Have we reached the point where it’s beyond the pale to expect a chief executive to exercise a bit of common sense? They haven’t reached that point in Pennsylvania.

        1. Nancy Naive Avatar
          Nancy Naive

          Prolly. Hopefully.

        2. Stephen Haner Avatar
          Stephen Haner

          I have legit Confederate heritage. It gives me no pride. Slavery was evil, doubly so in a nation of our founding principles of freedom and equality. With that, slavery made them hypocrites, too. With tax preferences or specialty license plates, render unto Caesar the things which are Caesars.

          1. Donald Smith Avatar
            Donald Smith

            I have legit Confederate heritage too. It gives me plenty of pride. I understand that life is complicated, and that Confederates fought for many reasons besides slavery. I’ll stipulate that the war was started because of slavery, but that’s not why many of the soldiers and sailors in gray fought it. Do you really think Pickett’s men charged Hancock’s guns at Cemetery Ridge because they wanted to keep their slaves?

            Judge not, lest that ye be judged. As British historian L.P. Hartley said, the past is a foreign country. They do things differently there. But I’ll stipulate that you would have been the exception to the rule, and a staunch abolitionist, in Southwest Virginia in 1861. And you’d have done the right thing in 1066, too.

          2. Stephen Haner Avatar
            Stephen Haner

            In the Palatine region of Germany? What would that have been in 1066? or Bern Canton? No, were I Shufflebarger in SW VA in 1860, suspect I’d have stood with my cousins. And I’ve looked, there were Haners on both sides, scattered from Michigan and Ohio to Texas. If you cannot have the license plate, I’d love to see you give your car a General Lee paint job! Daisy shows up and I’ll be there!

          3. Chip Gibson Avatar
            Chip Gibson

            Daisy of 1980…I feel inspired. The old Pontiac needs a paint job….gallon of orange, 3 pints of red, white, and blue. Black “01”‘s. On it!

          4. Donald Smith Avatar
            Donald Smith

            Daisy Duke was one fine lady, and knew how to appreciate a good hood slide.

            Robert E. Lee and the majority (the vast majority, I’d say) of Confederate soldiers and sailors were honorable men who did their duty when their homelands (states, in 1861) called them to do their duty. (There was also that conscription law thingy starting in 1862). They deserve to be honored by those who wish to honor them. If you fear being triggered by an SCV or Lee license plate, then try not staring at license plates.

          5. Chip Gibson Avatar
            Chip Gibson

            Again, the 1861 Inaugural Address: President Lincoln stated that he had “no purpose, directly or indirectly, to interfere with the institution of slavery in the States where it exists. I believe I have no lawful right to do so, and I have no inclination to do so.”

          6. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            1642 would be a more comparable date….

          7. Turbocohen Avatar
            Turbocohen

            If Youngkin fails us he will be sending a shot across the bow that he is not interested in a 2026 US Senate run at Mark Warner.

          8. Turbocohen Avatar
            Turbocohen

            If Youngkin fails us he will be sending a shot across the bow that he is not interested in a 2026 US Senate run at Mark Warner.

        3. disqus_R9x8HYaR62 Avatar
          disqus_R9x8HYaR62

          Politicians (and anyone public, really) are terrified of coming under fire for defending anything. A decade ago, when we began making concessions to seem nice, those making the slippery slope argument sounded crazy. Now it’s clear that we’re at the bottom of the slippery slope. You can continue seeming “nice” to twitter hordes looking for something to jump on, or you can grow a backbone and defend the history of this country (and you know they’ll be coming for anything and anyone that existed before the civil rights act)

    2. Not Today Avatar
      Not Today

      Do you really need to ask? I’d have run from or through you and anyone who looked like you.

      1. Turbocohen Avatar
        Turbocohen

        So, would you fight for or against Virginia?

        1. Not Today Avatar
          Not Today

          I’d fight for MYSELF not a piece of land. Men like you raped and pillaged people like me. You wouldn’t be my go to parter in arms and neither would the land. What kind of crazy question is that?

    3. disqus_R9x8HYaR62 Avatar
      disqus_R9x8HYaR62

      Anyone who thinks that if they lived in Virginia in 1861 and wouldn’t have fought for the Confederacy is deluding themselves. It’s easy to apply modern sensibilities to the past, but the way people thought about identity and race was entirely different. Others have mentioned that one’s loyalty at the time was to your state, not the union. (Imagine an Italian considering himself an EU citizen above being Italian).

      But we often use this argument to defend our ancestors as “totally not racist… it was for other reasons!” Listen, everyone at that time would have been considered extremely racist today. Even most Northern abolitionists considered the races scientifically distinct and certainly held their own race as superior. Most favored sending all slaves back to Africa. We’ve got to stop being so shy about common people holding opinions that were considered standard or even moderate at the time.

  3. f/k/a_tmtfairfax Avatar
    f/k/a_tmtfairfax

    Two of my 2nd great grandfathers fought for the Union. One in the 69th Pennsylvania Volunteer Infantry and the other the 9th Indiana Legion, a short-term militia. I have no belief in the Confederacy and its cause. But there is a difference between honoring the Confederacy and its leaders and respecting the memory of common soldiers. They all made personal sacrifice that is worthy of respect irrespective of the color of their uniforms.

    My dad often told the story of his father, a draftee who served in the 325th Infantry, part of the 82nd All American Division in the Great War. My grandfather fought in the St. Mihiel and Argonne Campaigns. He was injured in a German Mustard Gas attack on October 8, 1918, while his battalion was attacking the Germans holding the French village of Cornay in the Argonne Forest. My grandfather was hospitalized from October 8 until just before Christmas 1918. He had to take medicine for the rest of his life.

    As a youngster, my dad told his father that he thought all the German soldiers were evil and should have died. My grandfather quickly corrected his son, telling him that the German soldiers in WWI were ordinary men just like the American soldiers. They had no choice but to fight for their country. They suffered hardships, were wounded and died just like the Americans. My grandfather told my dad that he was wrong to hate the German soldiers, even the ones who fired the mustard gas shells.

    One of my dad’s younger brothers was a rifleman in the 24th Marines in WWII. He was wounded twice, one Japanese bullet remained calcified near his spine for the rest of his life. He clearly had PSTD, but I never heard my uncle say he hated the Japanese soldiers. I guess he learned something from his dad even though my uncle was only 6 when his father died.

    My grandfather’s beliefs were much more honorable than those of the Woke elected officials of today. Respecting common soldiers is an honorable thing to do. I’m glad that I was taught to do this.

    1. Eric the half a troll Avatar
      Eric the half a troll

      “They had no choice but to fight for their country”

      The Rebels did not fight for their country, they fought against it… hence their name…

      1. f/k/a_tmtfairfax Avatar
        f/k/a_tmtfairfax

        A more accurate statement for Confederate soldiers is that they fought for their state. The concept of the United States was quite different then than it is today. People often wrote or said, “The United States are” rather than “The United States is.”

        1. Eric the half a troll Avatar
          Eric the half a troll

          Regardless of how they chose to justify it, it is still true that they did not “fight for their country” but actually fought against it.

    2. Not Today Avatar
      Not Today

      My grandfather was treated better by the German and Japanese civilians than by whites in his own country. He had feelings about that too finding more common ground with the Jews, gays and persecuted Gypsies than many of his fellow service members.

  4. Maybe Youngkin can wash down his chicken sandwich with a Bud Light.

    1. Chip Gibson Avatar
      Chip Gibson

      How did the Transportation Secretary get pulled into this debate…?

  5. LarrytheG Avatar
    LarrytheG

    How long after slavery ended did Virginia continue to use and promote Confederate symbols ?

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/1e55dc2e3fc7bdd64884f0f6d293e4b70d7156fa862702fa7dcd655c45336845.png

    The narrative continues to talk about slavery as if the racist
    Jim Crow treatment of the descendants did not happen and continue for more than 100 years AND continues in a variety
    of “free speech” ways.

    Should the state continue to support and promote “free speech” on it’s license plates even if it contains racist symbols, the same ones we saw in Charlottesville?

    Are some of the folks complaining about the license plates the same ones who complain about the UDC Jim Crow symbols coming down also?

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/223835b299fdd5cb7f6d3892cb543aedb234bcb46b61699e903c4f250a42ccb0.png

    1. Chip Gibson Avatar
      Chip Gibson

      How long for Delaware…? New Jersey…? Maryland…? What difference does it make, regardless. If a Confederate symbol offends you, get a hanky.

      1. Donald Smith Avatar
        Donald Smith

        “If a Confederate symbol offends you, get a hanky.”

        I’m pretty sure he has plenty.

        1. LarrytheG Avatar
          LarrytheG

          It’s not just the symbol, it’s the premise that the Confederate flag represents heritage when we know full well what it also represents to others.
          https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/ff9b9b9ddc1225cd04d21ab2748bcd90c35bbb3c452a76c257c4f0692b100020.png

          Even Niki Haley knew that.

          1. Donald Smith Avatar
            Donald Smith

            To quote the great Native American philosopher Tonto, who do you mean by “we,” Kemo Sabe? You are entitled to think what you want to think, and also to be sure that you are right and that “we” all agree with you.

            Once again, I’ll triple dog dare you to come out of the comments section and write for the front page. If you are so sure that everyone agrees with you, then you’ll be a sensation.

          2. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            We have some pretty good images of those who embrace the Confederate Flag and little if any denials from folks like you that you are not them.

            What can convince me and others that you are not them also if you continue to defend displaying the Confederate flag like they do?

            You say this is “complex”. Nope.

          3. Chip Gibson Avatar
            Chip Gibson

            Confederate Flags fly right here in the neighborhood, Larry. Whatever it may represent to the owners is none of your business.

          4. Not Today Avatar
            Not Today

            Property values ok or nah?

          5. Chip Gibson Avatar
            Chip Gibson

            All in your narcissistic mind. What you see is not what others may see. You can have your flag, but you cannot handle the flag of another. Most folks get past that in the 1st grade. Remember, Hitler did not invent the swastika. It is an ancient symbol that he adopted to represent his evil empire. That does not make the symbol guilty of some crime nor does it make those who used it prior for other reasons criminals.

      2. Eric the half a troll Avatar
        Eric the half a troll

        If taking down of Confederate symbols offends you… well you seem to be the one crying about it…

        1. Chip Gibson Avatar
          Chip Gibson

          You have a right to take down anything that offends you and the rightful owners do not have the right to defend those things? Think real hard about that one. You may think you should have a front door. Someone else may find your door offensive. May be a cold night coming for you one day.

          1. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            Did not say that. But you continue whine. Need a hanky?

          2. Chip Gibson Avatar
            Chip Gibson

            Not whining. Standing up for right. It builds character – something lacking in the self-offended here.

          3. Not Today Avatar
            Not Today

            Rightful owners? Of statues in the public square? Who ‘owns’ those?

      1. Matt Adams Avatar
        Matt Adams

        Almost as ironic as Mr. Gore’s ties to petroleum to gain wealth and turn around and attack it.

        I guess tis for me, nor for thee.

        1. WayneS Avatar

          Don’t ask me. I didn’t make the pins, Clinton-Gore supporters did.

          1. Not Today Avatar
            Not Today

            Clinton was the worst sort of panderer, literally and politically.

          2. WayneS Avatar

            You’ll get no argument from me. He fooled me into voting for him in 1992. He taught me a lot, though, and he seriously and permanently recalibrated my BS meter.

    2. You mean the Democratic party?

      1. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        Conservatives who were named Dems before the parties switched but the same racist conservatives?

        1. DJRippert Avatar
          DJRippert

          Ahhh … the old “shape shifting argument”.

          You’ve been watching too many X-Files reruns.

  6. Chip Gibson Avatar
    Chip Gibson

    Splendid article! Should be an easy decision for the Governor. Woke is a disease – treat it aggressively and get back to work.

    1. Donald Smith Avatar
      Donald Smith

      Agreed. Or, tell us all why he won’t veto the bills.

      1. Chip Gibson Avatar
        Chip Gibson

        All Ahead Veto Aye! Steady as she goes. Sweepers sweepers, man your brooms – remove that slimy, stinking woke residue from the Quarterdeck! That is all.

        1. Lefty665 Avatar
          Lefty665

          Once a deck ape, always a deck ape. But we both take pleasure from removing the woke residue:)

  7. James Wyatt Whitehead Avatar
    James Wyatt Whitehead

    Youngkin might surprise. Afterall, he did stick up for the Arlington Monument and has attempted to preserve it for protection at New Market Battlefield.

  8. Eric the half a troll Avatar
    Eric the half a troll

    “Do woke whites honestly think that, if they’d been in Virginia in 1861, they wouldn’t have joined the Confederate Army? That they wouldn’t have thought of whites as superior to people of color?”

    Why one would wish to honor the “heritage” of armed rebellion against our country and white supremacy is beyond me.

    1. LarrytheG Avatar
      LarrytheG

      What followed after slavery, Jim Crow, tells us all we need to know about how most Southerners felt about black folks and their freedom.

      We keep getting the “slavery” narrative about it ending as if all was well after and blacks got their freedom and “equality”. Nothing is further from the truth as the same folks who fought for the South continued their racist behaviors for another 100+ years and continues to this day even with some folks who confuse “heritage” with racism.

    2. Donald Smith Avatar
      Donald Smith

      “Why one would wish to honor the “heritage” of armed rebellion against our country and white supremacy is beyond me.”

      I’m sure it is beyond you. Come up to the front page, put on your big boy pants and write an article. Bring Larry with you.

      1. Eric the half a troll Avatar
        Eric the half a troll

        I already garner Jim too many ad clicks…

      2. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        You got more than a share of you own who won’t use their names either. Is this the issue you want to argue? You get your guys to do their names first and I’ll consider it.

        1. Donald Smith Avatar
          Donald Smith

          “You get your guys to do their names first and I’ll consider it.”

          Anytime you think you’re up for it, come on up and join the adults.

    3. DJRippert Avatar
      DJRippert

      An honest question …

      What in the US Constitution of 1861 forbade a state (or a group of states) from seceding?

      I see the 10th Amendment:

      “The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.”

      Was the Confederacy an armed rebellion or was Lincoln’s armed effort to prevent secession a tyrannical overstep of the US Constitution?

  9. Nancy Naive Avatar
    Nancy Naive

    I’m not sure heritage is the correct word. Maybe nostalgia?

    1. It’s not a fad, Mom!

    2. Chip Gibson Avatar
      Chip Gibson

      It is heritage. Get some. It even goes with lavender.

      1. Nancy Naive Avatar
        Nancy Naive

        Well, you would know.

  10. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
    Dick Hall-Sizemore

    I had ancestors who fought for the Confederacy. I had ancestors who were slave owners. (In fact, there is an extended Black family of Sizemores who trace their lineage to a slave owned by one of my ancestors. One of my cousins has written a book about these “other” Sizemores.) https://www.amazon.com/Uncle-George-Me-Southern-Families/dp/1947860100/?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_w=byVCZ&content-id=amzn1.sym.cf86ec3a-68a6-43e9-8115-04171136930a&pf_rd_p=cf86ec3a-68a6-43e9-8115-04171136930a&pf_rd_r=137-2382284-2617024&pd_rd_wg=tL0rB&pd_rd_r=a6ac7a19-acc7-49ce-9a0f-21667767614f&ref_=aufs_ap_sc_dsk

    I grew up thinking that whites were superior to Blacks.

    I don’t think of my ancestors “fondly”. On the other hand, I don’t think of them “unfondly”, either. I don’t know anything about them. All the monuments did not honor my Confederate ancestors. They honor a hateful idea that the Confederacy stood for and went to war with the United States government over–the right to own other human beings.

    That being said, I do have a problem with the legislation dealing with tax exemptions. In one section, the bills delete the exemption of the UDC from recordation taxes. The UDC is the only nonprofit organization that has that exemption. There is no justification for it having that exemption, other than the venertion of the organization in the 1920’s. The other section eliminates the UDC and other Confederacy-related nonprofit organizatins from personal and profit taxes. If other nonprofit organizations are going to be exempted from property taxes, these organizaions should not be excluded. The exemptions should be available to any nonprofit organization or none at all. The legislature should not be picking and choosing which ones ge it.

    1. LarrytheG Avatar
      LarrytheG

      Dick , are you okay with these groups getting
      the charitable deduction?

      “Three years after the deadly Unite the Right rally in Charlottesville, Virginia, one of the groups allegedly involved in inciting violence at the event has been granted tax-exempt status as a charity. And it’s not the only organization viewed by some as a hate group that is receiving financial benefits from the federal government in the form of an IRS tax exemption, a CBS News investigation uncovered.

      A CBS News search of IRS tax-exempt charities revealed that 90 white supremacist, anti-immigration, anti-Muslim and anti-LGBTQ groups are registered as tax-exempt charities with the IRS. This includes groups such as the one formerly known as Identity Evropa and others associated with the Unite the Right rally, as well as the Council of Conservative Citizens, which inspired white supremacist Dylann Roof to open fire on a Charleston church in 2015, killing nine Black church members.”

      1. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
        Dick Hall-Sizemore

        Of course, I don’t approve of those groups. However, if they meet the criteria set out by the IRS to qualify for tax-exempt status, I can’t object. We would be treading on dangerous territory if the gov’t took the message or ideology of groups into account when granting tax-exempt status. That being said, it is my impression that the IRS criteria for qualifying as a charity is pretty broad and it might deserve some tightening.

        1. Eric the half a troll Avatar
          Eric the half a troll

          Should start with mega-churches…

      2. Chip Gibson Avatar
        Chip Gibson

        Give them a double deduction for being stalwart defenders of heritage.

          1. Donald Smith Avatar
            Donald Smith

            Truly your grasp of the many facets and complexities of American heritage is dizzying.

          2. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            The Confederacy was not “American”…

          3. Old Virginia Avatar
            Old Virginia

            There is nothing more “American” than to seek the government of your choosing.

            Donald Smith is right. Something tells me your idea of being an American is to do what the federal government lets you do.

          4. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            I see what I see and you do also and that is some of the same folks who talk about Confederate “heritage” also seem to be fond of other “heritages” and like to call it “history” to boot!

          5. Chip Gibson Avatar
            Chip Gibson

            Friends of yours?

        1. Eric the half a troll Avatar
          Eric the half a troll

          “ 90 white supremacist, anti-immigration, anti-Muslim and anti-LGBTQ groups…”

          These are your “stalwart defenders of heritage”…? Is this a parody account….🤷‍♂️

          1. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            You sorta get the drift here of whose “heritage” is “good”, eh?

          2. Chip Gibson Avatar
            Chip Gibson

            You lost me there. Do not know of whom you reference. I can only account for my own, not some other.

      3. WayneS Avatar

        Yes.

        I’m equally okay with the SPLC having tax exempt status in accordance with the law, even though I consider them a hate group set up by Morris Dees for the purpose of enriching Morris Dees.

        And even though they accomplished their main goal (enrichening Morris Dees) decades ago.

        1. LarrytheG Avatar
          LarrytheG

          what’s the premise/reason for giving tax exempt status?

          Can any group get it?

          1. WayneS Avatar

            I have no idea. But if they meet the standards under the law they should qualify, regardless of their political, social or religious beliefs.

            Of course, that does not mean I don’t want the laws changed to reduce the number groups which qualify.

    2. Donald Smith Avatar
      Donald Smith

      All the monuments did not honor my Confederate ancestors.

      What qualifies you to decide what each and every monument means to each and every person?

      They honor a hateful idea that the Confederacy stood for and went to war with the United States government over–the right to own other human beings.

      Again, you are entitled to your opinion of why Confederates fought. If you wish to conflate the soldiers who fought the war with the politicians who started it, be our guest. If you wish to cast complicated subjects in simplistic, easy-to-digest terms, again be our guest.

      You might want to think about the precedent you and your party are setting: judging all our ancestors by the woke, unforgiving standards of today. As Douglas Murray said, if you show no respect for my ancestors, I am under no obligation to show any for yours. Or, if you apply shallow, simplistic and unforgiving standards to my ancestors, then how can you complain when I do the same to yours? Standards are only fair if they apply equally to everyone.

      1. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
        Dick Hall-Sizemore

        I did not address why individual Confedrates fought. I am not judging the ancestors; I am judging the cause for which they fought. The state governments that seceded to form the Confederacy and for which they fought made their motivations clear. The clear consensus today is that that motivation was wrong and antithectical to the basic tenet of American democracy–all people are created equal. I see no reason why we should pay public homage to an armed rebellion against the United States.

        1. Donald Smith Avatar
          Donald Smith

          You are conflating the soldiers who started the war with the politicians who started it. Robert E. Lee did not fight for the Confederacy because he was itching to fight a war for slavery. He fought because he followed his state. That’s the main reason that thousands of Confederates fought–the call of duty. (That and that conscription law thingy). History is complex because humans are complex. People fight wars for many reasons.

          “I see no reason why we should pay public homage to an armed rebellion against the United States.” If that’s the only thing you can see when you see Lee or SCV license plates, then that’s pretty sad. Shallow takes on America’s rich, complicated and frustrating history will leave us with a vanilla heritage and a culturally and emotionally brittle people.

          It seems that, nowadays, lots of people are easily overwhelmed when confronted with complex topics.

        2. Donald Smith Avatar
          Donald Smith

          You are conflating the soldiers who started the war with the politicians who started it. Robert E. Lee did not fight for the Confederacy because he was itching to fight a war for slavery. He fought because he followed his state. That’s the main reason that thousands of Confederates fought–the call of duty. (That and that conscription law thingy). History is complex because humans are complex. People fight wars for many reasons.

          “I see no reason why we should pay public homage to an armed rebellion against the United States.” If that’s the only thing you can see when you see Lee or SCV license plates, then that’s pretty sad. Shallow takes on America’s rich, complicated and frustrating history will leave us with a vanilla heritage and a culturally and emotionally brittle people.

          It seems that, nowadays, lots of people are easily overwhelmed when confronted with complex topics.

          1. Chip Gibson Avatar
            Chip Gibson

            More hankies!! Remember, if short on woke hankies, a pair of old boxer shorts torn in half are the answer. The really old ones tear easily.

          2. Not Today Avatar
            Not Today

            Right-wingers out here proving their racist bonafides for all to see.

          3. Not Today Avatar
            Not Today

            Right-wingers out here proving their racist bonafides for all to see.

          4. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            re: ” (That and that conscription law thingy)” :

            “Were men required to fight in the Civil War?

            All able-bodied men between ages 20 and 45 were required to be enrolled and available for military service. Draftees were chosen by lottery. Once conscripted, a man could avoid service for that particular round of the draft either by paying a $300 commutation fee or by hiring a substitute to take his place.”

            re: ” It seems that, nowadays, lots of people are easily overwhelmed when confronted with complex topics.”

            That’s true for many issues but it’s not for the Confederate flag that has come down in South Carolina and other Southern States – nothing “complex” about it coming down.

          5. WayneS Avatar

            $300 in 1861 would be about $10,000 today. How many low income people in 2024 do you think could come up with a $10,000 “commutation fee”?

            The answer to the question is yes, men were required to fight in the Civil War. Especially poor men.

            And the United States had a draft during the Civil War as well; and that draft resulted in riots in New York in which dozens of blacks were murdered or lynched. A lot of Irish men did not want to fight for the rights of blacks in New York, much less in states hundreds of miles away.

            EDITED for correction.

          6. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            got a link for the riot in NY?

            If all young men were subject to the draft , how did some not get drafted and got 10K instead?

          7. WayneS Avatar

            Thanks. Certain people here know all about the past racial evils perpetrated by the southern states, but are almost completely ignorant regarding exactly how bad things were for blacks in the northern states.

          8. Not Today Avatar
            Not Today

            I’ve never conflated geography with racism, just ‘whiteness’. There’s a surprising overlap regardless of map lines.

          9. WayneS Avatar

            FYI – By no means was I including you in “certain people”.

            I am well aware that you know better than anyone else here that racism is not just a “southern thing”.

          10. Not Today Avatar
            Not Today

            By the same token, southern heritage does not just belong to white people as many PoC, like me, trace our genes and names to white slave owners. It’s *my* heritage too, however uncomfy that is for ‘heritage’ advocates.

          11. Not Today Avatar
            Not Today

            Thank you for that.

          12. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            This statement cannot be more emphasized. The specific people you’re speaking of refuted my statements on the 2nd article I commented on. That was the Emancipation Proclamation applied only to Southern States and Northern and Neutral parties held slaves until if not after the ratification of the 13th Amendment.

          13. WayneS Avatar

            If all young men were subject to the draft , how did some not get drafted and got 10K instead?

            I have no idea what you are talking about. Those who qualified for the draft did not get $300 ($10,000 in today’s money), they had to pay that amount to get out of the draft.

          14. Not Today Avatar
            Not Today

            Indeed. Same reason Boston was historically racist, segregated and anti busing. They were made enforcers of the law and given the power to make everyone else feel less than. Sad.

          15. Not Today Avatar
            Not Today

            Indeed. Same reason Boston was historically racist, segregated and anti busing. They were made enforcers of the law and given the power to make everyone else feel less than. Sad.

          16. WayneS Avatar

            To this day, I consider Boston, Massachusetts the most racist city I have ever visited – and I’ve visited quite a few southern cities.

          17. And many Yankees fought for their state, not the Federal government. The vast majority of units on both sides were State-centric, not national.

        3. American Cavalier Avatar
          American Cavalier

          The clear consensus that you speak of is nothing more than platitudinous nonsense. Our country was not founded on egalitarianism in any sense of the word. The Declaration wasn’t a legally binding document, and that quote – which has obviously been distorted – was nothing more than a colloquial phrase that literally meant we as British subjects are just as good as you over in England, and we’re not being treated that way.

          If you want to cite an actual founding document, the first nationality law extended citizenship to free whites of good character who had been in the country for two years. That certainly doesn’t sound like “all people.” John Jay, in Federalist 2, said we are a “people descended from the same ancestors, speaking the same language, professing the same religion, [and] attached to the same principles of government.” The majority of these vocal opponents to American history have zero roots in the country beyond a generation, and should be laughed out of the room as irrelevant. We’ve destroyed our birthright to placate people who don’t constitute “our posterity.”

          History will judge baby boomers harshly. They’re a weak generation that has destroyed what was bequeathed to them out of fear, and simultaneously created a world where their grandchildren will be persecuted as villains in their own homeland. But hey, at least no one will call you racist.

          1. Chip Gibson Avatar
            Chip Gibson

            Wow, I wish I could put it all together like that. Brilliant.

          2. Lefty665 Avatar
            Lefty665

            Us boomers have all those warts and many more. OTOH we have also created and ridden a wave of invention and discovery that has profoundly transformed the world in wondrous ways. It ain’t all bad.

            Some of us also have worked to put a stake in the heart of woke, DIE, CRT idiocy. Seems the tide is starting to turn on that. Got my fingers crossed and will stay in the trenches.

          3. Not Today Avatar
            Not Today

            Their own homeland? What delusional rot.

          4. American Cavalier Avatar
            American Cavalier

            Yes. This country was built for the founding generation and their posterity; specifically those from the British isles during the 17th and 18th centuries. We are not a dumping ground for third-worlders, and spare me the sanctimony of some argument about this country belonging to Indians – a group of people fond of human sacrifice and burning each other alive before we arrived.

            Hamilton, the figure that leftists love to trot out as some proponent of unfettered immigration because of that philistine musical, articulated his stance on immigration using Jefferson’s own words from Notes on the State of Virginia: “foreigners will generally be apt to bring with them attachments to the persons they have left behind; to the country of their nativity, and to its particular customs and manners.” He argued that “it is unlikely that they will bring with them that temperate love of liberty, so essential to real republicanism.”

            If that bothers you and the rest of the Ellis Island come-heres I’m sure there’s a boat waiting for you in the New York Harbor.

          5. Not Today Avatar
            Not Today

            According to your own, flawed, recitation they were immigrants and colonists of SOMEONE ELSE’S homeland. Crack a book.

          6. American Cavalier Avatar
            American Cavalier

            That is an asinine argument. Territorial conquest is how all land has been claimed throughout history. Indians didn’t have a home territory – they fought, and killed, rival tribes over it constantly. After Western contact, more Indians were killed by rival tribes than white people. They should be grateful that after we disabused them of their savage ways they were allowed to find solace in casinos and cheap liquor.

      2. Chip Gibson Avatar
        Chip Gibson

        Give’em hell, Don! Wish I could state your position as well, as it is also mine…my version, just dumber.

    3. DJRippert Avatar
      DJRippert

      Quite right!

    4. DJRippert Avatar
      DJRippert

      Quite right!

  11. William O'Keefe Avatar
    William O’Keefe

    Trying to rewrite history, including trying to eliminate anything having to do with the confederacy is dangerous and destructive. The past is the past and we live in the future. Time spent by the GA on attempting to wash away anything to do with Robert E Lee or the confederacy is time not spent on current problems which are not in short supply. VETO!

  12. WayneS Avatar

    To be honest, I’m more interested in the governor vetoing all the stupid gun laws that were passed by this year’s GA than I am in the tax exempt status of the UDC.

    1. Donald Smith Avatar
      Donald Smith

      Why can’t he veto them all?

      1. WayneS Avatar

        I do not think the UDC should not have ‘special’ tax exempt status over-and-above what other non-profits have. However, I absolutely do not support stripping them of all tax exempt status unless a whole lot of other groups are going to be similarly stripped of theirs.

      2. WayneS Avatar

        I do not think the UDC should have any ‘special’ tax exempt status over-and-above what other non-profits have. However, I absolutely do not support stripping them of all tax exempt status unless a whole lot of other groups are going to be similarly stripped of theirs.

  13. JonathanSwifter Avatar
    JonathanSwifter

    Our Civil War tours are uncensored and discuss people from all different aspects of America’s great saga:

    https://www.meetup.com/washarea-discovery-hikes/

  14. Exactly what has “Confederate heritage” given us?

    Having been born (1944), reared, and educated in rural South Mississippi, I can tell you that “Confederate heritage” has given us nothing but:

    — A twisted, distorted, lying version of history, celebrating the mythical, laughable “Lost Cause”

    — The KKK.

    — Jim Crow, the Black Codes, sharecropping, poll tax to vote, “literacy test” to vote, “vagrancy” laws, lynching.

    — Several hundred useless statues, most of them erected in the early- or mid-20th Century, celebrating traitors who attempted to destroy the Republic.

    Not a problem if Gov. Red Vest vetoes these bills — he, Sears, and Miyares will be history in January 2025 and the Democratic Governor will sign the legislation after the Democratic General Assembly passes the legislation again.

  15. Meanwhile, there’s this from the Richmond Times-Dispatch

    Gov. Glenn Youngkin wants to amend — but did not reject outright — a bill Democrats said was a top priority for women’s health, but he signed legislation saying marriage is legal regardless of the sex, gender or race of the couple.

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