Bacon's Rebellion

Democracy Thrives in Sunlight

You Were Warned

—

by

Peter Galuszka
in ,

By Peter Galuszka

Here are some posts over the past year warning of what happened Jan. 6 at the U.S. Capitol.

https://www.baconsrebellion.com/is-a-mighty-storm-coming/

https://www.baconsrebellion.com/the-new-face-of-virginias-gop/

https://www.baconsrebellion.com/the-plot-to-nab-northam/

https://www.baconsrebellion.com/the-very-real-threat-of-boogaloo/

https://www.baconsrebellion.com/the-real-danger-with-antifa/

https://www.baconsrebellion.com/notes-from-the-right-wing-echo-chamber/

One other note: One Trump rioter was photographed holding a bunch of white flex cuff handcuffs, presumably to restrain Nancy Pelosi, Mike Pence and others. It reminded me of the 1991 coup attempt against Mikhail Gorbachev. Plotters ordered hundreds of thousands of handcuffs in advance.

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293 responses to “You Were Warned”

  1. V N Avatar
    V N

    Amazing how Galuszka has figured out who is a Trump supporter, who is Antifa, when the “press” (actually propaganda machine) hasn’t. Or that maybe it was a joke or a symbol. He seems to be able to read minds. What # am I thinking of Pete?

    So explain to me how the FB fact checkers determined that a Chinese study of almost 10M people, published in a nationally and well respected magazine, with traditional scientifical protocols, that has not been refuted by any other magazine or science publication, is false???? ROFL LOL

    1. Steve Haner Avatar
      Steve Haner

      I note that you included your piece dismissing or downplaying the threat from AntiFa and others on the left. The lesson of history (for those who read it) is that the violence from both ends of the extreme is equally deplorable and dangerous, and unless both are condemned you are missing a key point. But without doubt many saw this coming and worried that things were getting out of hand, and I recall writing that, too.

      I am positively thrilled to see the arrests continuing, and hope for full prosecutions. The charge should be accessory to murder.

      1. Nathan Avatar
        Nathan

        Citizens are to be equal under the law. Everyone should be treated the same.

        “Black Lives Matter and Antifa demonstrations have continued in the city since May following the death of George Floyd.”

        “According to a database from the Multnomah County District Attorney, a total of 974 cases have been referred to the office for potential charges in demonstrations.”

        “However, the DA has rejected 666 of the cases – and as of Friday, had only moved forward with 128.”

        “A remaining 182 cases are still pending charges, the database shows.”

        https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/12891946/mugshots-antifa-rioters-arrested-portland-unrest/

  2. Nancy_Naive Avatar
    Nancy_Naive

    Hmmm, the greatest failure of 911 was when a flight instructor in Florida told the FBI of a student who said, “I don’t need to learn how to land the plane,” and this event was preceded by a month of announcements.

    So much for the Deep State.

    1. Steve Haner Avatar
      Steve Haner

      No reason it cannot also be the Dumb State.

      1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
        Nancy_Naive

        Yep. And WHO has been firing and demoralizing the FBI for the last 4 years?

        What was it you said about sowing and reaping the other day?

    2. Nathan Avatar
      Nathan

      “and this event was preceded by a month of announcements.”

      They should have been prepared and prosecuting the perps isn’t enough. We need to ensure that it can’t happen again. The second a protest gets out of control and starts getting violent, action should be taken to restore order.

      That’s also true for cities across the country. Portland still isn’t peaceful.

      1. djrippert Avatar
        djrippert

        Sounds like Charlottesville. Plenty of warning but wholly ineffective action by McAuliffe and the mayor of C’Ville.

        The attack on the Capitol was evil but it never should have happened.

        We perennially spend more and more of our GDP on government but we never get better government.

        1. LarrytheG Avatar
          LarrytheG

          I heard there were unmarked vans in Portland scooping up suspects. I wonder if that would have worked at the Capitol? 😉

        2. idiocracy Avatar
          idiocracy

          “We perennially spend more and more of our GDP on government but we never get better government.”

          We get better paid government employees.

          1. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            which vastly increases the standard of living of everyone in NoVa especially if one believes in trickle down… 😉

  3. LarrytheG Avatar
    LarrytheG

    re: Antifa

    When I hear them claim to be 70 million strong and have their leader in the WH and storm the Capitol, I’ll take notice.

    1. Nathan Avatar
      Nathan

      LarrytheG: “When I hear them claim to be 70 million strong and have their leader in the WH and storm the Capitol, I’ll take notice.”

      Wow, that’s quite a statement. So it’s okay to burn down all other cities, just not D.C.?

      You don’t care care about the people in Portland? Their lives, property and businesses don’t matter?

      “Portland, Ore., Mayor Ted Wheeler (D) condemned antifa and anarchists following a night of riots in the city on New Year’s Eve.”

      “Speaking at a press conference on New Year’s Day, the mayor said protesters caused tens of thousands of dollars in damage by breaking windows, starting fires and spray-painting property in downtown Portland late Thursday evening, local CBS affiliate KOIN reported.”

      Wheeler asked during his press conference, “Why would a group of largely white, young and some middle-age men destroy the livelihood of others who are struggling to get by?”

      “According to law enforcement, some protesters allegedly used Molotov cocktails Thursday night, causing thousands of dollars in damage to properties around the downtown area.”

      The mayor has since been in contact with Multnomah County District Attorney Mike Schmidt, calling for more prosecutions and accountability for “radical antifa and anarchists” seeking to cause damage and wreak havoc in the city, which suffered dozens of nights of violent protests in 2020.

      https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/portland-mayor-blames-antifa-anarchists-following-nye-riot/ar-BB1cpQJM

      1. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        Never okay but equating Antifa to this mob is just boogeman talk.

        Right now, on Social Media, there is talk about not only the inauguration but every State Capital.

        Like I said, when I see Antifa doing that scope and scale and Biden urging them on on social media, I’ll issue a mea culpa.

        The folks who attacked the Capitol look a LOT LIKE the folks at Trumps rallies. No?

        1. Nathan Avatar
          Nathan

          We are either equal under the law or we aren’t. Rioting is rioting.

          30 people have died in the BLM/Antifa riots. Unlike you, I’m not suggesting that we only pay attention to those who perpetuated violence in D.C. when their number of casualties gets near that number. That’s sick.

          Soon to be VP Kamala Harris thinks the BLM/Antifa demonstrations are just fine and dandy. She makes no mention about the violence or loss of life.

          “I know that there are protests still happening in major cities across the United States, I’m just not seeing the reporting on it that I had for the first few weeks,” Colbert said.

          Harris nodded, “Right, that’s right,” she said. “But they’re not gonna stop. They’re not gonna stop. This is a movement, I’m telling you. They’re not gonna stop. And everyone beware, because they’re not gonna stop.

          “They’re not gonna stop before election day in November, and they’re not gonna stop after election day. And that should be–everyone should take note of that, on both levels.

          “They’re not gonna let up,” Harris said with pride, “and they should not. And we should not.”

          “The August 30 interview came after 30 people were killed in the intensive rioting from May through August, and billions of dollars in property damage was reported.”

          https://thepostmillennial.com/flashback-kamala-harris-celebrated-blm-and-antifa-riots

  4. Nathan Avatar
    Nathan

    Mr. Galuszka,

    One of the reasons why I value your contribution is because your articles and comments are representative of a large swath of Progressive thought.

    This article as well as those sited demonstrates the lack of consistency of many Progressives. There are no absolute core values being defended here. For each situation, you must know who’s involved before you know how to react and whether to condemn or make excuses for the behavior.

    For me and many others, rioting, destruction of property and violence are wrong. Period. When it occurs it must be stopped. Period.

    I don’t need to know who is doing the rioting, what signs they are holding or what they want.

    Law enforcement should of course use as little force as possible, but if shouting and other such efforts don’t work, then other measures may be necessary such as tear gas. If law enforcement cannot control the situation, then the National Guard must be brought it.

    That’s what should have been done at the Federal Courthouse in Portland and what was done in Washington. I don’t portray one as stormtroopers and the other as valiant defenders of Democracy.

    Those who perpetuated the rioting must be held accountable as soon as possible – every individual who attacked the courthouse in Portland and every individual who attacked the capital.

    This summer we had unprecedented rioting, destruction of property, injury and death. That cannot be excused, but I still support the right of individuals to speak out about what they perceive to be abuse of law enforcement. Not everyone participated in the violence. Many are sincere in their beliefs.

    Thousands of people marched in Washington. Many of them also were not violent and have sincere beliefs.

    “The most organized group at the pro-President Trump rally/ stop the steal protest were the Chinese Americans warning against the Chinese Communist Party (CCP). At the Washington Monument, they had pavilions and banners erected praising President Trump and warning against the danger of the Chinese Communist Party. Almost certainly many of those supporting President Trump had directly experienced the totalitarian rule in China. Most had probably lost relatives in the Great Leap Forward.”

    “They could see what was happening in the United States with a clarity lacked by many Americans.”

    https://www.ammoland.com/2021/01/most-organized-pro-trump-group-at-the-6-january-protests-anti-ccp/#axzz6j0rISWPt

    1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
      Nancy_Naive

      Wow! Such creds! AmmoLand. Well, not quite NPR, but close.

      1. Nathan Avatar
        Nathan

        So what?

        Are you saying it didn’t happen?

        Are all those pictures fake?

        Were you there?

        Anti-communist people from China don’t have a right to protest?

  5. Peter Galuszka Avatar
    Peter Galuszka

    Trump has done great damage to the U.S. many Republicans either backed him or said nothing. I have complained on this blog that many simply pretend Trump doesn’t exist. Jim Bacon has some fantasy that discussing Trump breaks a “cardinal rule.” That wasn’t the case with Obama and will not be with Biden. Accusing me of “tribalism” is utter nonsense. The stakes are much higher.

    1. LarrytheG Avatar
      LarrytheG

      re: “great damage”.

      It only took many in the GOP – to this point – to admit it though.

      To this point, the GOP said it was Dems being mean to Trump, no?

      I’d be curious to hear what Amanda Chase thinks now.

      My guess is that she is still a Trumper through and through.

      What happens to Chase in Virginia might give a hint as how Trumpism
      will evolve (not going away).

  6. Peter Galuszka Avatar
    Peter Galuszka

    Reed. No need for the snotty personal putdown. I am getting really tired of your childish behavior.

    1. Matt Adams Avatar
      Matt Adams

      “Peter Galuszka | January 9, 2021 at 9:37 am | Reply
      Reed. No need for the snotty personal putdown. I am getting really tired of your childish behavior.”

      The fact that you even have the audacity to say that after everything that you’ve stated towards people on this blog, in a word is laughable.

  7. Peter Galuszka Avatar
    Peter Galuszka

    Fair questions, Nathan. I remind you that a Capitol Police officer was also killed.

    1. Steve Haner Avatar
      Steve Haner

      Believing all I read, as I do, I ran across something about one of the other deaths. A rioter turned looter was trying to abscond with a piece of art from the Capitol, and the taser in his pocket went off and he had a heart attack. He wouldn’t drop the art to turn off the taser. Now THAT is a Coen Brothers’ moment if true….

      1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
        Nancy_Naive

        Oh God, a Will Rogers denier!

        But, it is amusing.

    2. Nathan Avatar
      Nathan

      I read about the officer killed and his background. I should have mentioned that in my comment. Thanks for the reminder.

      Nothing will bring him back or make up for the loss to his family, but justice demands that whomever did that to him answer for it.

      1. WayneS Avatar
        WayneS

        Indeed it does.

  8. James A. Bacon Avatar
    James A. Bacon

    Mob violence is wrong, and should be condemned regardless of the ideologies propelling the mob. Can we agree on that?

    The conservative columnists and commenters on this blog have always denounced right-wing violence, and that’s a demonstrable fact.

    Do some of you want to say that some mob violence is more justifiable than others because, in your mind, their motives are more noble? If that’s your argument, then you’re really saying violence is OK when you agree with the aims of the rioters but not OK when you disagree with them.

    1. LarrytheG Avatar
      LarrytheG

      Mob violence is clearly wrong no matter the reason.

      But Jim, have you heard commentors in BR talk about a coming civil war?

      What does that mean? Did I misunderstand it?

      The folks who mobbed the Capitol did not go there to do battle with Antifa or a group of organized left led by Dems.

      They went there to confront Congress – both Dem and GOP… Hate speech was directed at Pence, McConnell, Lindsay Graham, Mitt Romney, and more.

      When I see Antifa do something on that scale, I’ll reconsider the “both sides” argument. Right now, Antifa is more a boogeyman than anything we’ve seen from the Trumpsters.

      1. Steve Haner Avatar
        Steve Haner

        Ah…it is the relative size and effectiveness of the violence that matters! No, always wrong, ten folks or ten thousand.

        1. LarrytheG Avatar
          LarrytheG

          Nope. It’s when you say it’s the same on both sides… and know you’re wrong when you say it and then engage in a personal attack.

          1. Nathan Avatar
            Nathan

            The number who breached the Capital is quite tiny in comparison to the number of rioters and looters this summer. Your argument makes no sense.

            If we include all who protested peacefully on one side, then we should include that number on the other.

            Over the last months there have been thousands of rallies, Trump trains, and other demonstrations. Exactly one was violent, and those attending had no way to know that would be the case. The track record to that point was clean.

            “About 93% of racial justice protests in the US have been peaceful, a new report finds”

            https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/04/us/blm-protests-peaceful-report-trnd/index.html

      2. Matt Hurt Avatar
        Matt Hurt

        Those folks on the left and the right that are disillusioned with the Republic have different tactics, but the desired end results for both are the same.

    2. Nancy_Naive Avatar
      Nancy_Naive

      Don’t just denouce it. Prevent it. Start by knocking Ms. Amanda off her high horse, figuratively speaking, otherwise that’s violence. She represents the violence that just occurred. She was there. She was talking it up.

      Don’t neuter these types, their litters are yours.

      You’ve the ear of your Party.

    3. VaNavVet Avatar
      VaNavVet

      Jim
      Of course all riots are to be condemned as is all use of violence. There is a difference between looting and vandalism and an actual insurrection aimed at disruption of the government for political purposes. This insurrection was domestic terrorism and was intended to strike a blow at our democratic institutions. Members of the free press were attacked and a police officer was killed. The rule of law, Federalism, and states rights were all under attack by these Retrumplicans. Granted many were there to merely protest peacefully but they stood by and watched it happen. They like so member in Congress have enabled this president for the past four years.

    4. Steve Haner Avatar
      Steve Haner

      This is politics, Jim. The effort to impeach is not aimed at Trump, they want to force every R in both chambers to vote on the issue, then weaponize the roll call. When I see that and then hear them call for calm and reconciliation, I laugh. Nervously.

      1. UpAgnstTheWall Avatar
        UpAgnstTheWall

        So your assertion is that:

        1) Trump’s actions do not rise to level of deserving impeachment.

        And

        2) It’s dirty politics to get members of Congress on record with whether they agree with 1.

        1. Steve Haner Avatar
          Steve Haner

          A month ago or longer I’d probably have considered impeachment. Serious. But now it is the same level of political sham as the challenges to the Electoral College. Preening to the mob.

          1. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            Pretty sure most GOP would not entertain a 2nd impeachment even a month ago even after what has just happened.

            Such a vote in the current Senate would have likely depended on five or ten GOP Senators – not enough to impeach – and every one that voted yes, instant target of Trump.

            Trump had a stranglenold on the GOP – folks need to admit this.

          2. UpAgnstTheWall Avatar
            UpAgnstTheWall

            So you don’t think Trump deserves to be impeached and that getting members of Congress on record regarding same is dirty politics. Got it, thank you.

          3. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            Impeachment will become the norm regarding every political spat now. It will simply become the new filibuster.

          4. Nancy_Naive Avatar
            Nancy_Naive

            Impeachment is sure fire.

            Trump has the pardon power. Impeachment takes that from him, and should he resign, also keeps Pence from pardoning him.

            Obviously, the Senate won’t remove him. Can’t scrape up 16 or 18 Republicans who want his base pissed at them. Figure Manchin needs a replacement from the Rs.

            However, doing a Pete Rose on his butt can be done in Biden’s term and needs only 51. No more campaign fund raising for him.

    5. UpAgnstTheWall Avatar
      UpAgnstTheWall

      1) What happened Wednesday wasn’t simple “mob violence”, it was an attempted coup where the participants beat a man to death with a fire extinguisher. And unlike the mass protests that happened over the summer there is no question as to whether the actual act of violence was carried out by the people protesting or just random members of a crowd who attached themselves to the action. The people on Wednesday brought zip ties not protest signs.

      2) You named your blog after an act of violence. You’ve defended that violence in the past. The Fourth of July is ultimately a celebration of violence. This idea that you or Steve or any of the other conservatives who comment here actually think violence is bad in the sense of a Kantian imperative is nonsense and no one here is stupid enough to buy it. What you think is bad is violence – or “violence” since the vast majority of what happens in protest is property damage no, you know, beating a man to death – from people whose politics you disagree with. James Alex Fields drove his car into a crowd of people with the intent to kill and the response here was “well there was violence on both sides,” which wasn’t true in terms of the level of violence, but also isn’t true because the two sides aren’t morally equivalent. The people carrying torches and chanting “Jews will not replace us” aren’t the moral equals of the people who rightly identify those people as dangerous. People who vandalize a federal courthouse when it’s closed and empty aren’t doing the same thing that armed and violent people storming capitol buildings in Oregon, Michigan, and DC during the course of those governments fulfilling those duties. Antifa, which you don’t even have a basic understanding of, didn’t blow up a federal building in Oklahoma or Cintenial Park and they didn’t assassinate doctors for performing legal medical procedures. Antifa didn’t murder nine Black churchgoers in South Carolina or eleven Jewish congregants in Pennsylvania. They didn’t cross state lines to murder two random protesters in Kenosha. Even as someone who found much of the property destruction that happened in my city unacceptable, unhelpful, and unwarranted the people who busted up Broad Street and the people who tried to subvert the American government are not morally equivalent.

      3) Antifa – a short hand of two words: anti- and fascist. It’s not a catchall term for all leftists or liberals. It’s a specific ideological grouping made up of many people who are actively hostile to mainstream liberalism. It’s been around for decades, mostly in the punk scene starting in the late 70s. And you know why you never heard of them before 2016? Well, the general you, not the specific you – you specifically never heard of them because you spent your youth attending elite universities devoid of the type of scene where Nazi skinheads would engage in turf wars over whose bar it actually is. They didn’t make news during the Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Bush, or Obama years not because they didn’t exist or disagree with the government or hated Republicans; they didn’t make news because the fascist movement during those years wasn’t nationally ascendent with an ally in the White House. None of those presidents would have gone on television and told a group like the Proud Boys to “stand by.” They wouldn’t have told people involved in storming the Capitol that they love them. George W. Bush didn’t call an entire group of people rapists and murderers. He didn’t lie about 9/11 celebrations. He didn’t make it official policy to put kids in cages. He didn’t put a blanket travel ban against countries affiliated with the wrong religion. And his supporters didn’t say things like “Heil Bush.” Antifa was also noticeably absent during the Tea Party protests, because for all they disagreed with them the Tea Party folks weren’t fascists.

      1. TooManyTaxes Avatar
        TooManyTaxes

        And what about the silence, except for the Senate’s resolution condemning the attempt to impose a religious test on a a judicial nominee, about Senators Harris’ and Hirono’s religious bigotry? Is that conduct better than Trump’s religious-related travel ban? Please explain.

        1. LarrytheG Avatar
          LarrytheG

          I’d just say again. It’s the rare person who has not said on done something they don’t regret.

          We don’t judge on single incidents. If we did, very few would be around.

          You gotta get off this kick. If others judged you on things you have said the same way? geeze guy.

        2. UpAgnstTheWall Avatar
          UpAgnstTheWall

          The Knights of Columbus == all Catholics, not even close.

        3. Virginia Martin Avatar
          Virginia Martin

          TooManyTaxes – this is just more Whataboutism, which appears to be a favored rhetorical approach of yours. Where’s that logical fallacy guy these days? Per Wikipedia, ” Whataboutism, also known as whataboutery, is a variant of the tu quoque logical fallacy that attempts to discredit an opponent’s position by charging them with hypocrisy without directly refuting or disproving their argument.” Whataboutism adds nothing to the conversation, and it’s use here suggests you have no real refutation of these commenters’ positions. Fortunately for them, that just makes their arguments look stronger in comparison to your own.

          1. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            TM = Whatbaboutsim

            VM = to quoque and ad hom

            If you have to resort to Wikipedia for information regarding fallacies and topics of the like, you should be discussing them.

          2. Nathan Avatar
            Nathan

            Virginia – So what are your views?

            Do you agree with UpAgnstTheWall who said:

            “You named your blog after an act of violence. You’ve defended that violence in the past. The Fourth of July is ultimately a celebration of violence. This idea that you or Steve or any of the other conservatives who comment here actually think violence is bad in the sense of a Kantian imperative is nonsense and no one here is stupid enough to buy it.”

          3. Nancy_Naive Avatar
            Nancy_Naive

            Tu. It’s French, Matt, as is roughly 60% of English, i.e., most multi syllable words.

  9. John Harvie Avatar
    John Harvie

    One small thing that might help to avoid some of the protest mayhem, or at least partially defuse the situation before the gathering gets too riled up would be for police acting on anti noise ordinances temporarily on the spot confiscape all the leaders’ bullhorns. With the leaders’ lacking the means to loudly egg on the mob many protests might be less unruly or even disperse.

    The bullhorn could be returned to the owner later after payment both of a noise ordinance fine AND a not so small small storage fee. It’s done for the vehicle for parking infractions; why not for noise infractions?

    Bet the neighborhood residents would be grateful as well.

  10. Eric the Half a Troll Avatar
    Eric the Half a Troll

    The zip-tie guy, ex-Air Force, the woman who was shot and killed, ex-Air Force… 🤔

  11. LarrytheG Avatar
    LarrytheG

    In other “news”, the 10-15 Trump emails I had been receiving daily have stopped.. None.

  12. jyl1st Avatar
    jyl1st

    Thank God for the 81M Americans who chose to stop the bleeding and stem the tide of this incredible menace that has taken over much of our country.

    This is a surprise to none of us 81M and over half the country, we have been speaking of this since July of 2015. Tony Schwartz, the author who actually wrote the Art of the Deal since that time has repeatedly tried to warn the nation.

    This fever has affected most of the Republican party, and only now, albeit very incredibly slowly is their recognition of this reality.

    What is missing is the kind of total and complete repudiation necessary from sycophant supporters within the Amen Chorus and whataboutismists, including those who write on this blog.

    Unlike in previous years in our history – 1865, 1876, 1963, 2001, 2005, 2008, 2016-2020, this time hopefully there will be swift justice and retribution to the seditious conspirators that have flagrantly taken our country to the abyss.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2021/01/08/capitol-riot-trump-forecast-encouraged/

  13. Peter Galuszka Avatar
    Peter Galuszka

    A decent President would resign. He must be held accountable but another impeachment is just a gesture and there’s not enough time. Trump
    Loses immunity on Jan. 20. He faces criminal probes in New York. He owes Deutsch bank more than $400 million. Maybe he could be arrested the moment Biden snd Harris are sworn in. I fear more violence that day.
    One question. When did I ever advocate violence in Portland or Richmond or anywhere? This is another right wing diversion. And, in case you don’t get it, the Capitol insurrection was designed to prevent Congress from doing their duty and certifying a legally elected president. That’s huge.
    Also, having lived through a much more violent coup attempt and leading a team of. Journalists in some extremely stressful and dangerous moments, I deeply resent the comment that Nathan, Haner and someone else are the “adults” in the discussion. but on Jan. 6, I heard from a colleague was with me during the violence which involved automatic weapons and shelling by late model
    Tanks. No more patronization. It embarrasses you.

    1. UpAgnstTheWall Avatar
      UpAgnstTheWall

      There are 11 days between now and January 20 – that’s plenty of time to impeach and convict if Congress is serious about it.

    2. Matt Hurt Avatar
      Matt Hurt

      I can’t say that we’ve had a decent president in my lifetime, and only one (Nixon) resigned. There is very little precedent for non-decent presidents resigning.

  14. V N Avatar
    V N

    Amazing how Galuszka has figured out who is a Trump supporter, who is Antifa, when the “press” (actually propaganda machine) hasn’t. Or that maybe it was a joke or a symbol. He seems to be able to read minds. What # am I thinking of Pete?

    So explain to me how the FB fact checkers determined that a Chinese study of almost 10M people, published in a nationally and well respected magazine, with traditional scientifical protocols, that has not been refuted by any other magazine or science publication, is false???? ROFL LOL

    1. Steve Haner Avatar
      Steve Haner

      I note that you included your piece dismissing or downplaying the threat from AntiFa and others on the left. The lesson of history (for those who read it) is that the violence from both ends of the extreme is equally deplorable and dangerous, and unless both are condemned you are missing a key point. But without doubt many saw this coming and worried that things were getting out of hand, and I recall writing that, too.

      I am positively thrilled to see the arrests continuing, and hope for full prosecutions. The charge should be accessory to murder.

      1. Nathan Avatar
        Nathan

        Citizens are to be equal under the law. Everyone should be treated the same.

        “Black Lives Matter and Antifa demonstrations have continued in the city since May following the death of George Floyd.”

        “According to a database from the Multnomah County District Attorney, a total of 974 cases have been referred to the office for potential charges in demonstrations.”

        “However, the DA has rejected 666 of the cases – and as of Friday, had only moved forward with 128.”

        “A remaining 182 cases are still pending charges, the database shows.”

        https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/12891946/mugshots-antifa-rioters-arrested-portland-unrest/

  15. Nancy_Naive Avatar
    Nancy_Naive

    Hmmm, the greatest failure of 911 was when a flight instructor in Florida told the FBI of a student who said, “I don’t need to learn how to land the plane,” and this event was preceded by a month of announcements.

    So much for the Deep State.

    1. Steve Haner Avatar
      Steve Haner

      No reason it cannot also be the Dumb State.

      1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
        Nancy_Naive

        Yep. And WHO has been firing and demoralizing the FBI for the last 4 years?

        What was it you said about sowing and reaping the other day?

    2. Nathan Avatar
      Nathan

      “and this event was preceded by a month of announcements.”

      They should have been prepared and prosecuting the perps isn’t enough. We need to ensure that it can’t happen again. The second a protest gets out of control and starts getting violent, action should be taken to restore order.

      That’s also true for cities across the country. Portland still isn’t peaceful.

      1. djrippert Avatar
        djrippert

        Sounds like Charlottesville. Plenty of warning but wholly ineffective action by McAuliffe and the mayor of C’Ville.

        The attack on the Capitol was evil but it never should have happened.

        We perennially spend more and more of our GDP on government but we never get better government.

        1. LarrytheG Avatar
          LarrytheG

          I heard there were unmarked vans in Portland scooping up suspects. I wonder if that would have worked at the Capitol? 😉

        2. idiocracy Avatar
          idiocracy

          “We perennially spend more and more of our GDP on government but we never get better government.”

          We get better paid government employees.

          1. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            which vastly increases the standard of living of everyone in NoVa especially if one believes in trickle down… 😉

  16. LarrytheG Avatar
    LarrytheG

    re: Antifa

    When I hear them claim to be 70 million strong and have their leader in the WH and storm the Capitol, I’ll take notice.

    1. Nathan Avatar
      Nathan

      LarrytheG: “When I hear them claim to be 70 million strong and have their leader in the WH and storm the Capitol, I’ll take notice.”

      Wow, that’s quite a statement. So it’s okay to burn down all other cities, just not D.C.?

      You don’t care care about the people in Portland? Their lives, property and businesses don’t matter?

      “Portland, Ore., Mayor Ted Wheeler (D) condemned antifa and anarchists following a night of riots in the city on New Year’s Eve.”

      “Speaking at a press conference on New Year’s Day, the mayor said protesters caused tens of thousands of dollars in damage by breaking windows, starting fires and spray-painting property in downtown Portland late Thursday evening, local CBS affiliate KOIN reported.”

      Wheeler asked during his press conference, “Why would a group of largely white, young and some middle-age men destroy the livelihood of others who are struggling to get by?”

      “According to law enforcement, some protesters allegedly used Molotov cocktails Thursday night, causing thousands of dollars in damage to properties around the downtown area.”

      The mayor has since been in contact with Multnomah County District Attorney Mike Schmidt, calling for more prosecutions and accountability for “radical antifa and anarchists” seeking to cause damage and wreak havoc in the city, which suffered dozens of nights of violent protests in 2020.

      https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/portland-mayor-blames-antifa-anarchists-following-nye-riot/ar-BB1cpQJM

      1. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        Never okay but equating Antifa to this mob is just boogeman talk.

        Right now, on Social Media, there is talk about not only the inauguration but every State Capital.

        Like I said, when I see Antifa doing that scope and scale and Biden urging them on on social media, I’ll issue a mea culpa.

        The folks who attacked the Capitol look a LOT LIKE the folks at Trumps rallies. No?

        1. Nathan Avatar
          Nathan

          We are either equal under the law or we aren’t. Rioting is rioting.

          30 people have died in the BLM/Antifa riots. Unlike you, I’m not suggesting that we only pay attention to those who perpetuated violence in D.C. when their number of casualties gets near that number. That’s sick.

          Soon to be VP Kamala Harris thinks the BLM/Antifa demonstrations are just fine and dandy. She makes no mention about the violence or loss of life.

          “I know that there are protests still happening in major cities across the United States, I’m just not seeing the reporting on it that I had for the first few weeks,” Colbert said.

          Harris nodded, “Right, that’s right,” she said. “But they’re not gonna stop. They’re not gonna stop. This is a movement, I’m telling you. They’re not gonna stop. And everyone beware, because they’re not gonna stop.

          “They’re not gonna stop before election day in November, and they’re not gonna stop after election day. And that should be–everyone should take note of that, on both levels.

          “They’re not gonna let up,” Harris said with pride, “and they should not. And we should not.”

          “The August 30 interview came after 30 people were killed in the intensive rioting from May through August, and billions of dollars in property damage was reported.”

          https://thepostmillennial.com/flashback-kamala-harris-celebrated-blm-and-antifa-riots

  17. Peter Galuszka Avatar
    Peter Galuszka

    It wasn’t Antifa that invaded the Capitol. “Both sides ism” and false equivalence are pathetic in this case Right wingers have already come out with the lame lie that the rioters Jan 6 were Antifa. Don’t think I will participate in such stupid debates.

    1. LarrytheG Avatar
      LarrytheG

      Wait! Any moment now, Antifa is going to go public and claim Biden was secretly elected as their man and from now on – people better do what he wants or he’ll have them primaried and thrown out of the Dem party.

      Of course, it would never have happened without the collusion of State election officials including GOP officials!

      The coup de grace, infiltrating the Trumpsters and leading them to storm the Capitol. The perfect conspiracy. Who knew?

    2. Steve Haner Avatar
      Steve Haner

      Fine. I also note that I’m the first comment on one those above, totally agreeing about the threat of violence in the wake of the election. It was AntiFa that was trying to kill people and destroy the Portland federal building. Those of you (Larry, too) who refuse to see the parallel are not just pathetic, but enablers. I’m continuing to equate and condemn alike. You still think you can “win” this debate and gain political power — how’d it all work out in Russia? More or less freedom after what you witnessed? Nancy brought up the Reichstag fire — used by the Nazi’s to consolidate their dictatorship. How’d that work out?

      1. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        The vast majority of the violence in the cities with BLM was unorganized AD Hoc behavior. There was SOME coordination among some smaller groups but nothing like pickup trucks with flags parading through the streets and such.

        More than a few of those that stormed the Capitol have long-standing and known social media accounts and affiliations.

        More than 90% of the participants are said to not be from the DC area – in other words, they flew in from afar.

        And because they did not wear masks, they are being readily identified , charged, and fired from their workplaces… much like what happened in Charlottesville.

        I agree Antifa exists and they have been involved in violence but the vast majority of the BLM protests were mostly peaceful with some bad actors and both police and BLM organizers came to see that.

        The right has tried to turn Antifa into something as big as the Trumpsters who attend rallies all over the country in the thousands.

        What we saw at the Capitol – looks almost exactly like Trumps Rallies.

        Where are the Antifa Dem rallies?

        1. Steve Haner Avatar
          Steve Haner

          If I invented you I couldn’t have written a better illustration of my point.

          1. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            Indeed. That’s your go to when you have no answers.. just attack the persons.. not just me… time and again.. that’s on you.

        2. WayneS Avatar
          WayneS

          Do you know what percentage of the crowd at the earlier BLM/Antifa protests participated in violence?

          Do you know what percentage of the crowd at the Capitol building last week participated in violence?

          1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
            Nancy_Naive

            Raw percentage?

            Or, can I weight them with the importance of an AutoZone to the Capitol Building? Also, can I adjust the weights based on the rioters/looters/insurgents carrying rape kits?

    3. Nathan Avatar
      Nathan

      I’m not claiming that Trump supporters aren’t responsible since I wasn’t there and don’t know any of the individuals who were. I’ll wait for more information.

      I do think there are legitimate questions about exactly what happened and how the Capital Police reacted. A woman was shot and killed. Was that appropriate? Does her life matter? I’m not making any judgement at this point, but I think it should be investigated, just as every other police shooting should be investigated.

      What’s going on here? Are these officers trying to keep the protesters out or letting them in? I wasn’t there and have no conclusions but I’d like to understand what happened.

      “Capitol police open doors for the protestors. They stand aside and invite them inside.”

      https://twitter.com/christina_bobb/status/1347596278583197698?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1347596278583197698%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitchy.com%2Fsamj-3930%2F2021%2F01%2F08%2Fwtf-is-going-on-here-video-shows-capitol-police-opening-the-doors-standing-aside-and-inviting-protesters-inside%2F

  18. Peter Galuszka Avatar
    Peter Galuszka

    It wasn’t Antifa that invaded the Capitol. “Both sides ism” and false equivalence are pathetic in this case Right wingers have already come out with the lame lie that the rioters Jan 6 were Antifa. Don’t think I will participate in such stupid debates.

    1. Steve Haner Avatar
      Steve Haner

      Fine. I also note that I’m the first comment on one those above, totally agreeing about the threat of violence in the wake of the election. It was AntiFa that was trying to kill people and destroy the Portland federal building. Those of you (Larry, too) who refuse to see the parallel are not just pathetic, but enablers. I’m continuing to equate and condemn alike. You still think you can “win” this debate and gain political power — how’d it all work out in Russia? More or less freedom after what you witnessed? Nancy brought up the Reichstag fire — used by the Nazi’s to consolidate their dictatorship. How’d that work out?

      1. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        The vast majority of the violence in the cities with BLM was unorganized AD Hoc behavior. There was SOME coordination among some smaller groups but nothing like pickup trucks with flags parading through the streets and such.

        More than a few of those that stormed the Capitol have long-standing and known social media accounts and affiliations.

        More than 90% of the participants are said to not be from the DC area – in other words, they flew in from afar.

        And because they did not wear masks, they are being readily identified , charged, and fired from their workplaces… much like what happened in Charlottesville.

        I agree Antifa exists and they have been involved in violence but the vast majority of the BLM protests were mostly peaceful with some bad actors and both police and BLM organizers came to see that.

        The right has tried to turn Antifa into something as big as the Trumpsters who attend rallies all over the country in the thousands.

        What we saw at the Capitol – looks almost exactly like Trumps Rallies.

        Where are the Antifa Dem rallies?

        1. Steve Haner Avatar
          Steve Haner

          If I invented you I couldn’t have written a better illustration of my point.

        2. WayneS Avatar
          WayneS

          Do you know what percentage of the crowd at the earlier BLM/Antifa protests participated in violence?

          Do you know what percentage of the crowd at the Capitol building last week participated in violence?

          1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
            Nancy_Naive

            Raw percentage?

            Or, can I weight them with the importance of an AutoZone to the Capitol Building? Also, can I adjust the weights based on the rioters/looters/insurgents carrying rape kits?

    2. Nathan Avatar
      Nathan

      I’m not claiming that Trump supporters aren’t responsible since I wasn’t there and don’t know any of the individuals who were. I’ll wait for more information.

      I do think there are legitimate questions about exactly what happened and how the Capital Police reacted. A woman was shot and killed. Was that appropriate? Does her life matter? I’m not making any judgement at this point, but I think it should be investigated, just as every other police shooting should be investigated.

      What’s going on here? Are these officers trying to keep the protesters out or letting them in? I wasn’t there and have no conclusions but I’d like to understand what happened.

      “Capitol police open doors for the protestors. They stand aside and invite them inside.”

      https://twitter.com/christina_bobb/status/1347596278583197698?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1347596278583197698%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitchy.com%2Fsamj-3930%2F2021%2F01%2F08%2Fwtf-is-going-on-here-video-shows-capitol-police-opening-the-doors-standing-aside-and-inviting-protesters-inside%2F

    3. LarrytheG Avatar
      LarrytheG

      Wait! Any moment now, Antifa is going to go public and claim Biden was secretly elected as their man and from now on – people better do what he wants or he’ll have them primaried and thrown out of the Dem party.

      Of course, it would never have happened without the collusion of State election officials including GOP officials!

      The coup de grace, infiltrating the Trumpsters and leading them to storm the Capitol. The perfect conspiracy. Who knew?

  19. Nathan Avatar
    Nathan

    Mr. Galuszka,

    One of the reasons why I value your contribution is because your articles and comments are representative of a large swath of Progressive thought.

    This article as well as those sited demonstrates the lack of consistency of many Progressives. There are no absolute core values being defended here. For each situation, you must know who’s involved before you know how to react and whether to condemn or make excuses for the behavior.

    For me and many others, rioting, destruction of property and violence are wrong. Period. When it occurs it must be stopped. Period.

    I don’t need to know who is doing the rioting, what signs they are holding or what they want.

    Law enforcement should of course use as little force as possible, but if shouting and other such efforts don’t work, then other measures may be necessary such as tear gas. If law enforcement cannot control the situation, then the National Guard must be brought it.

    That’s what should have been done at the Federal Courthouse in Portland and what was done in Washington. I don’t portray one as stormtroopers and the other as valiant defenders of Democracy.

    Those who perpetuated the rioting must be held accountable as soon as possible – every individual who attacked the courthouse in Portland and every individual who attacked the capital.

    This summer we had unprecedented rioting, destruction of property, injury and death. That cannot be excused, but I still support the right of individuals to speak out about what they perceive to be abuse of law enforcement. Not everyone participated in the violence. Many are sincere in their beliefs.

    Thousands of people marched in Washington. Many of them also were not violent and have sincere beliefs.

    “The most organized group at the pro-President Trump rally/ stop the steal protest were the Chinese Americans warning against the Chinese Communist Party (CCP). At the Washington Monument, they had pavilions and banners erected praising President Trump and warning against the danger of the Chinese Communist Party. Almost certainly many of those supporting President Trump had directly experienced the totalitarian rule in China. Most had probably lost relatives in the Great Leap Forward.”

    “They could see what was happening in the United States with a clarity lacked by many Americans.”

    https://www.ammoland.com/2021/01/most-organized-pro-trump-group-at-the-6-january-protests-anti-ccp/#axzz6j0rISWPt

    1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
      Nancy_Naive

      Wow! Such creds! AmmoLand. Well, not quite NPR, but close.

      1. Nathan Avatar
        Nathan

        So what?

        Are you saying it didn’t happen?

        Are all those pictures fake?

        Were you there?

        Anti-communist people from China don’t have a right to protest?

  20. Nancy_Naive Avatar
    Nancy_Naive

    These morons are PROUD of their work. Please don’t insult these fine highly intelligent “patriots”, who are bragging still, by suggesting their “good work” was done by their sworn enemy, ANTIFA.

    When Al Qaeda claimed responsibility for 911 did you guys try to blame it on some poor innocent schmuck? Oh wait. Yes, yes you did! Killed him for it too.

  21. Nancy_Naive Avatar
    Nancy_Naive

    These morons are PROUD of their work. Please don’t insult these fine highly intelligent “patriots”, who are bragging still, by suggesting their “good work” was done by their sworn enemy, ANTIFA.

    When Al Qaeda claimed responsibility for 911 did you guys try to blame it on some poor innocent schmuck? Oh wait. Yes, yes you did! Killed him for it too.

  22. Matt Hurt Avatar
    Matt Hurt

    My God folks! Tribalism has so many folks straining gnats and swallowing camels that it’s not even funny. This has lead us to where we are right now. It’s best you all stop fighting with each other and get on your own elected officials in your own party. They love to watch you all squabble among yourselves as all they can hear is the cash flowing into their coffers.

    The violence is from both teams. Own it and worry about cleaning your own house prior to pointing fingers. This problem is growing, and arguing among ourselves is fueling the fire.

    1. Reed Fawell 3rd Avatar
      Reed Fawell 3rd

      Thank you Matt, Nathan, and Steve, for being serious adults in today’s Saturday morning romper room.

    2. ksmith8953 Avatar
      ksmith8953

      Matt, you are so correct. Let’s not keep this divide going! We are playing right into the hands of extremists on both sides! Most of the thousands were there to protest, not storm the capitol. Then there those …… sounds like all are being blamed. I don’t agree with the protesters, but for those that intended non violence, they had a right.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        The scenes on TV were surreal.

        One shows windows being smashed, police attacked and all kinds of violence going on – and just a few feet away were milling crowds waving flags and eating hot dogs…and such.

        You do have to ask the ones who were not involved in the violence but basically in the same crowd at the Capitol – what they were thinking.

        1. WayneS Avatar
          WayneS

          The hypocrisy just DRIPS off you.

  23. Matt Hurt Avatar
    Matt Hurt

    My God folks! Tribalism has so many folks straining gnats and swallowing camels that it’s not even funny. This has lead us to where we are right now. It’s best you all stop fighting with each other and get on your own elected officials in your own party. They love to watch you all squabble among yourselves as all they can hear is the cash flowing into their coffers.

    The violence is from both teams. Own it and worry about cleaning your own house prior to pointing fingers. This problem is growing, and arguing among ourselves is fueling the fire.

    1. Reed Fawell 3rd Avatar
      Reed Fawell 3rd

      Thank you Matt, Nathan, and Steve, for being serious adults in today’s Saturday morning romper room.

    2. ksmith8953 Avatar
      ksmith8953

      Matt, you are so correct. Let’s not keep this divide going! We are playing right into the hands of extremists on both sides! Most of the thousands were there to protest, not storm the capitol. Then there those …… sounds like all are being blamed. I don’t agree with the protesters, but for those that intended non violence, they had a right.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        The scenes on TV were surreal.

        One shows windows being smashed, police attacked and all kinds of violence going on – and just a few feet away were milling crowds waving flags and eating hot dogs…and such.

        You do have to ask the ones who were not involved in the violence but basically in the same crowd at the Capitol – what they were thinking.

        1. WayneS Avatar
          WayneS

          The hypocrisy just DRIPS off you.

  24. Peter Galuszka Avatar
    Peter Galuszka

    Up Against the Wall. Don’t get me wrong. I am all for impeachment and removal. I actually read the Mueller report and counted maybe a dozen acts of obstruction of justice. They should have been acted upon. My concern is getting this SOB out of power as soon as possible and with the least chaos. Then he can answer for what he has done.

  25. Peter Galuszka Avatar
    Peter Galuszka

    Trump has done great damage to the U.S. many Republicans either backed him or said nothing. I have complained on this blog that many simply pretend Trump doesn’t exist. Jim Bacon has some fantasy that discussing Trump breaks a “cardinal rule.” That wasn’t the case with Obama and will not be with Biden. Accusing me of “tribalism” is utter nonsense. The stakes are much higher.

    1. LarrytheG Avatar
      LarrytheG

      re: “great damage”.

      It only took many in the GOP – to this point – to admit it though.

      To this point, the GOP said it was Dems being mean to Trump, no?

      I’d be curious to hear what Amanda Chase thinks now.

      My guess is that she is still a Trumper through and through.

      What happens to Chase in Virginia might give a hint as how Trumpism
      will evolve (not going away).

  26. Peter Galuszka Avatar
    Peter Galuszka

    Reed. No need for the snotty personal putdown. I am getting really tired of your childish behavior.

    1. Matt Adams Avatar
      Matt Adams

      “Peter Galuszka | January 9, 2021 at 9:37 am | Reply
      Reed. No need for the snotty personal putdown. I am getting really tired of your childish behavior.”

      The fact that you even have the audacity to say that after everything that you’ve stated towards people on this blog, in a word is laughable.

  27. Peter Galuszka Avatar
    Peter Galuszka

    Fair questions, Nathan. I remind you that a Capitol Police officer was also killed.

    1. Steve Haner Avatar
      Steve Haner

      Believing all I read, as I do, I ran across something about one of the other deaths. A rioter turned looter was trying to abscond with a piece of art from the Capitol, and the taser in his pocket went off and he had a heart attack. He wouldn’t drop the art to turn off the taser. Now THAT is a Coen Brothers’ moment if true….

      1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
        Nancy_Naive

        Oh God, a Will Rogers denier!

        But, it is amusing.

    2. Nathan Avatar
      Nathan

      I read about the officer killed and his background. I should have mentioned that in my comment. Thanks for the reminder.

      Nothing will bring him back or make up for the loss to his family, but justice demands that whomever did that to him answer for it.

      1. WayneS Avatar
        WayneS

        Indeed it does.

  28. James A. Bacon Avatar
    James A. Bacon

    Mob violence is wrong, and should be condemned regardless of the ideologies propelling the mob. Can we agree on that?

    The conservative columnists and commenters on this blog have always denounced right-wing violence, and that’s a demonstrable fact.

    Do some of you want to say that some mob violence is more justifiable than others because, in your mind, their motives are more noble? If that’s your argument, then you’re really saying violence is OK when you agree with the aims of the rioters but not OK when you disagree with them.

    1. Steve Haner Avatar
      Steve Haner

      This is politics, Jim. The effort to impeach is not aimed at Trump, they want to force every R in both chambers to vote on the issue, then weaponize the roll call. When I see that and then hear them call for calm and reconciliation, I laugh. Nervously.

      1. UpAgnstTheWall Avatar
        UpAgnstTheWall

        So your assertion is that:

        1) Trump’s actions do not rise to level of deserving impeachment.

        And

        2) It’s dirty politics to get members of Congress on record with whether they agree with 1.

        1. Steve Haner Avatar
          Steve Haner

          A month ago or longer I’d probably have considered impeachment. Serious. But now it is the same level of political sham as the challenges to the Electoral College. Preening to the mob.

          1. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            Pretty sure most GOP would not entertain a 2nd impeachment even a month ago even after what has just happened.

            Such a vote in the current Senate would have likely depended on five or ten GOP Senators – not enough to impeach – and every one that voted yes, instant target of Trump.

            Trump had a stranglenold on the GOP – folks need to admit this.

          2. UpAgnstTheWall Avatar
            UpAgnstTheWall

            So you don’t think Trump deserves to be impeached and that getting members of Congress on record regarding same is dirty politics. Got it, thank you.

          3. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            Impeachment will become the norm regarding every political spat now. It will simply become the new filibuster.

          4. Nancy_Naive Avatar
            Nancy_Naive

            Impeachment is sure fire.

            Trump has the pardon power. Impeachment takes that from him, and should he resign, also keeps Pence from pardoning him.

            Obviously, the Senate won’t remove him. Can’t scrape up 16 or 18 Republicans who want his base pissed at them. Figure Manchin needs a replacement from the Rs.

            However, doing a Pete Rose on his butt can be done in Biden’s term and needs only 51. No more campaign fund raising for him.

    2. LarrytheG Avatar
      LarrytheG

      Mob violence is clearly wrong no matter the reason.

      But Jim, have you heard commentors in BR talk about a coming civil war?

      What does that mean? Did I misunderstand it?

      The folks who mobbed the Capitol did not go there to do battle with Antifa or a group of organized left led by Dems.

      They went there to confront Congress – both Dem and GOP… Hate speech was directed at Pence, McConnell, Lindsay Graham, Mitt Romney, and more.

      When I see Antifa do something on that scale, I’ll reconsider the “both sides” argument. Right now, Antifa is more a boogeyman than anything we’ve seen from the Trumpsters.

      1. Steve Haner Avatar
        Steve Haner

        Ah…it is the relative size and effectiveness of the violence that matters! No, always wrong, ten folks or ten thousand.

        1. LarrytheG Avatar
          LarrytheG

          Nope. It’s when you say it’s the same on both sides… and know you’re wrong when you say it and then engage in a personal attack.

          1. Nathan Avatar
            Nathan

            The number who breached the Capital is quite tiny in comparison to the number of rioters and looters this summer. Your argument makes no sense.

            If we include all who protested peacefully on one side, then we should include that number on the other.

            Over the last months there have been thousands of rallies, Trump trains, and other demonstrations. Exactly one was violent, and those attending had no way to know that would be the case. The track record to that point was clean.

            “About 93% of racial justice protests in the US have been peaceful, a new report finds”

            https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/04/us/blm-protests-peaceful-report-trnd/index.html

      2. Matt Hurt Avatar
        Matt Hurt

        Those folks on the left and the right that are disillusioned with the Republic have different tactics, but the desired end results for both are the same.

    3. Nancy_Naive Avatar
      Nancy_Naive

      Don’t just denouce it. Prevent it. Start by knocking Ms. Amanda off her high horse, figuratively speaking, otherwise that’s violence. She represents the violence that just occurred. She was there. She was talking it up.

      Don’t neuter these types, their litters are yours.

      You’ve the ear of your Party.

    4. VaNavVet Avatar
      VaNavVet

      Jim
      Of course all riots are to be condemned as is all use of violence. There is a difference between looting and vandalism and an actual insurrection aimed at disruption of the government for political purposes. This insurrection was domestic terrorism and was intended to strike a blow at our democratic institutions. Members of the free press were attacked and a police officer was killed. The rule of law, Federalism, and states rights were all under attack by these Retrumplicans. Granted many were there to merely protest peacefully but they stood by and watched it happen. They like so member in Congress have enabled this president for the past four years.

    5. UpAgnstTheWall Avatar
      UpAgnstTheWall

      1) What happened Wednesday wasn’t simple “mob violence”, it was an attempted coup where the participants beat a man to death with a fire extinguisher. And unlike the mass protests that happened over the summer there is no question as to whether the actual act of violence was carried out by the people protesting or just random members of a crowd who attached themselves to the action. The people on Wednesday brought zip ties not protest signs.

      2) You named your blog after an act of violence. You’ve defended that violence in the past. The Fourth of July is ultimately a celebration of violence. This idea that you or Steve or any of the other conservatives who comment here actually think violence is bad in the sense of a Kantian imperative is nonsense and no one here is stupid enough to buy it. What you think is bad is violence – or “violence” since the vast majority of what happens in protest is property damage no, you know, beating a man to death – from people whose politics you disagree with. James Alex Fields drove his car into a crowd of people with the intent to kill and the response here was “well there was violence on both sides,” which wasn’t true in terms of the level of violence, but also isn’t true because the two sides aren’t morally equivalent. The people carrying torches and chanting “Jews will not replace us” aren’t the moral equals of the people who rightly identify those people as dangerous. People who vandalize a federal courthouse when it’s closed and empty aren’t doing the same thing that armed and violent people storming capitol buildings in Oregon, Michigan, and DC during the course of those governments fulfilling those duties. Antifa, which you don’t even have a basic understanding of, didn’t blow up a federal building in Oklahoma or Cintenial Park and they didn’t assassinate doctors for performing legal medical procedures. Antifa didn’t murder nine Black churchgoers in South Carolina or eleven Jewish congregants in Pennsylvania. They didn’t cross state lines to murder two random protesters in Kenosha. Even as someone who found much of the property destruction that happened in my city unacceptable, unhelpful, and unwarranted the people who busted up Broad Street and the people who tried to subvert the American government are not morally equivalent.

      3) Antifa – a short hand of two words: anti- and fascist. It’s not a catchall term for all leftists or liberals. It’s a specific ideological grouping made up of many people who are actively hostile to mainstream liberalism. It’s been around for decades, mostly in the punk scene starting in the late 70s. And you know why you never heard of them before 2016? Well, the general you, not the specific you – you specifically never heard of them because you spent your youth attending elite universities devoid of the type of scene where Nazi skinheads would engage in turf wars over whose bar it actually is. They didn’t make news during the Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Bush, or Obama years not because they didn’t exist or disagree with the government or hated Republicans; they didn’t make news because the fascist movement during those years wasn’t nationally ascendent with an ally in the White House. None of those presidents would have gone on television and told a group like the Proud Boys to “stand by.” They wouldn’t have told people involved in storming the Capitol that they love them. George W. Bush didn’t call an entire group of people rapists and murderers. He didn’t lie about 9/11 celebrations. He didn’t make it official policy to put kids in cages. He didn’t put a blanket travel ban against countries affiliated with the wrong religion. And his supporters didn’t say things like “Heil Bush.” Antifa was also noticeably absent during the Tea Party protests, because for all they disagreed with them the Tea Party folks weren’t fascists.

      1. TooManyTaxes Avatar
        TooManyTaxes

        And what about the silence, except for the Senate’s resolution condemning the attempt to impose a religious test on a a judicial nominee, about Senators Harris’ and Hirono’s religious bigotry? Is that conduct better than Trump’s religious-related travel ban? Please explain.

        1. LarrytheG Avatar
          LarrytheG

          I’d just say again. It’s the rare person who has not said on done something they don’t regret.

          We don’t judge on single incidents. If we did, very few would be around.

          You gotta get off this kick. If others judged you on things you have said the same way? geeze guy.

        2. UpAgnstTheWall Avatar
          UpAgnstTheWall

          The Knights of Columbus =\= all Catholics, not even close.

        3. Virginia Martin Avatar
          Virginia Martin

          TooManyTaxes – this is just more Whataboutism, which appears to be a favored rhetorical approach of yours. Where’s that logical fallacy guy these days? Per Wikipedia, “ Whataboutism, also known as whataboutery, is a variant of the tu quoque logical fallacy that attempts to discredit an opponent’s position by charging them with hypocrisy without directly refuting or disproving their argument.” Whataboutism adds nothing to the conversation, and it’s use here suggests you have no real refutation of these commenters’ positions. Fortunately for them, that just makes their arguments look stronger in comparison to your own.

          1. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            TM = Whatbaboutsim

            VM = to quoque and ad hom

            If you have to resort to Wikipedia for information regarding fallacies and topics of the like, you should be discussing them.

          2. Nathan Avatar
            Nathan

            Virginia – So what are your views?

            Do you agree with UpAgnstTheWall who said:

            “You named your blog after an act of violence. You’ve defended that violence in the past. The Fourth of July is ultimately a celebration of violence. This idea that you or Steve or any of the other conservatives who comment here actually think violence is bad in the sense of a Kantian imperative is nonsense and no one here is stupid enough to buy it.”

          3. Nancy_Naive Avatar
            Nancy_Naive

            Tu. It’s French, Matt, as is roughly 60% of English, i.e., most multi syllable words.

  29. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
    James Wyatt Whitehead V

    26 million fire arms sold in 2020. This is just the beginning. Not good. Not warning anybody. Just saying.

    1. Matt Hurt Avatar
      Matt Hurt

      Government derives power from the consent of the governed. It appears that less people are consenting. I don’t think that the draconian measures being discussed will win any hearts and minds, or will cause any healing. I agree with you James, but I hope so bad that you are proven wrong.

      As it turns out, the information I have read is that the gun sales were not all from the usual crowd. There were significant number of purchases by folks who were first time gun buyers who also voted blue.

      1. Reed Fawell 3rd Avatar
        Reed Fawell 3rd

        All crimes including most serious are going through the roof, at the very same time that government is defunding and neutering the police, and refusing to enforce laws, except to punish political opponents, and are allowing looting and burning in many of America’s biggest cities. This is the cultural collapse of America. I suspect this is why more and more private citizens are buying guns for first time.

    2. ksmith8953 Avatar
      ksmith8953

      James, you bring up a good point. So does Matt. So what was Homeland Security looking at by way of predictors prior to the incident? Or did they have any predictors? Appeared to be few guns, more than likely they couldn’t get them on the plane. What could have predicted this? Social media from the most extreme in the group? Who was on first? All questions we have to answer? As someone said earlier, if I am a flight instructor and my student says I don’t need to learn how to land, how does that get communicated? Thanks

    3. Eric the Half a Troll Avatar
      Eric the Half a Troll

      What ARE you actually “just saying”? Inquiring minds want to know… Don’t be coy now…

      1. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
        James Wyatt Whitehead V

        I do not possess inner wisdom to issue any kind of warning. But the confluence of current events is concerning.

      2. UpAgnstTheWall Avatar
        UpAgnstTheWall

        The wrong people are buying guns now so it’s time to be concerned.

        1. Nathan Avatar
          Nathan

          You have a problem with women, minorities and liberals buying guns? Why is that?

          “That market is widening this year to include a new rush of first-time buyers, including many women, minorities and politically liberal buyers who once would not have considered gun ownership, according to Reuters interviews with more than a dozen industry experts, academics and gun store owners.”

          https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN2701HP

          1. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
            James Wyatt Whitehead V

            I have a number of friends and family who are first time gun owners and concealed carry permit holders. People I would have never thought to purchase and take the extra steps to get the permit. Almost a bonding point to head down as a family to target shoot at Clarke Brothers. I have no problem with any of this. Legal and it appears that the folks I am speaking of are taking the responsibility seriously.

          2. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            but no problem with teachers you wouldn’t trust to give a COVID shot or CPR?

            I don’t think I would trust someone who went to a riot and wore their work ID badge…

            https://s.hdnux.com/photos/01/16/05/32/20469413/3/rawImage.jpg

          3. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
            James Wyatt Whitehead V

            Mr. Larry. What? Didn’t make sense. Hey pal you ought to wheel one of those 12 pound Napoleons out at Spotsy Battlefield for self defense. Or at least a nice lawn ornament.

          4. Nathan Avatar
            Nathan

            I still wish it were easier and cheaper for people to get some training. It’s not easy if someone works full time, and even then it’s expensive. A Basic Pistol class I just saw charges $179. Not everyone can afford that. As mentioned previously, the state helps with hunter safety training, but there is a much greater need for defensive training.

            There are lots of new owners, and the very people who shout the loudest and proclaim they are for “gun safety” are doing nothing to help them.

            I’ve started pursuing certification for handguns. I’ve taught rifle and shotgun for many years, but am not currently certified to provide handgun training. That’s not to say I’m not proficient, just not certified to teach.

            I have a certification for shotgun and enjoy teaching. A shotgun can be a good home defense option, but that’s not what most people are looking for.

          5. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            They have to strap down those cannons… there are folks about that would move them… not me… 😉

          6. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
            James Wyatt Whitehead V

            Shotgun is probably the best for home defense. Just the sound of advancing the round into the chamber is going to be enough to get any trouble out the door.

          7. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            Totally on board Nathan and would argue if you have the money to buy a guy, you have a responsbility to get training and if training were mandatory – the market would provide affordable options.

            In terms of shotgun. Yep. My thinking is that if someone breaks into your house and then sees you with a shotgun and still comes – knowing your aim can be bad and still good…. good riddance.

          8. Nathan Avatar
            Nathan

            I don’t support mandatory instruction, but you would be amazed what I have seen over the years.

            I’ve also mentioned that serving in the military doesn’t necessarily provide the background for using firearms in civilian life. I don’t say that flippantly.

            Here’s just one example:

            I have a friend who retired from the Marines and actually served in Vietnam. He knows a thing or two about firearms. Several months ago he sent me a message that he inherited an old shotgun and was thinking of trying it out. I immediately cautioned him and asked him to describe it. Sure enough, it was made before modern powders and wasn’t safe to shoot with today’s ammo.

            My marine friend was very knowledgeable about only the firearms he used and under the circumstances there. There’s much more to consider as a civilian. And you don’t know what you don’t know.

            Unless they have other training, someone who learned in the military may be the last person on earth you would want to teach children. Teaching youth is altogether different from the military. It’s even different from what one learns with the NRA. It’s somewhat of a specialized skill.

          9. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            Trying to understand. You say it’s a dangerous weapon in the wrong hands… don’t want to put words in your mouth so re-word if needed.

            That kind of training would put more people like me at ease because that’s my big concern with everyone having guns.

            Is there some middle ground?

          10. Nathan Avatar
            Nathan

            – Firearms can be dangerous
            – Chainsaws can be dangerous
            – Mulchers can be dangerous (I have a friend who lost an arm)
            – Gasoline is extremely dangerous (under the right conditions it is more powerful than TNT)
            – Horses can be dangerous
            – Electricity can be dangerous (I have stories there by the many)
            – This list is endless

            (I knew someone who got electrocuted with an aluminum ladder touching power lines.)

            I don’t want to live in Communist China or anything even approaching that where one needs permission to do almost anything. I believe in liberty, with accountability.

            With that said, I want to provide as much help in the way of instruction as reasonably possible. I also believe in volunteer service. That’s one reason I’m pursuing my certification to provide handgun instruction.

            I’m not asking the government to pay for every citizen to be trained with firearms. I’d just like them to provide the structure for qualified people to volunteer their time to help others.

            Doesn’t that make sense? Mandates only work with with penalties. Penalties only work if they are enforced. Do you really want to put a single mother struggling to keep her family safe in jail for not buying firearm training?

          11. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            Lots of dangerous things, yes, but you don’t take them into Walmart or other public venues and threaten others with them.

            Guns are more like vehicles and we require some level of competence in operating them – and folks are subject to review and sanctions when they don’t.

            If we go the other way. Why don’t we allow folks on planes or in courtrooms or polling places with guns?

            It just seems to be totally at odds with any real uniformity or consistency as to why we regulate or not.

          12. Nathan Avatar
            Nathan

            Where did Walmart come from? I thought we were having a discussion about training? Pardon me for thinking we could focus on a topic.

            But yes, people take other unlicensed stuff with them into Walmart and threaten people. There’s no permit required for strong arms. Knives and “Other” are also readily available without a permit or training.

            “Number of robberies in the United States in 2019, by weapon used”

            https://www.statista.com/statistics/251914/number-of-robberies-in-the-us-by-weapon/

            “If we go the other way. Why don’t we allow folks on planes or in courtrooms or polling places with guns?”

            This is what annoys people. Nobody I know has suggested taking away all existing restrictions on guns. So why is this nonsense added to the discussion?

          13. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            re: Walmart and training.

            It’s people wandering around in public places with guns that don’t know how to use them.

            The point about planes, and courtrooms and polling places is that they were restrictions created and I ask what makes them the static situation?

            We develop restrictions as time goes back as opposed to not allowing any at all, never.

            We can do more – what is the argument that we cannot if we have done that all along over time already?

            In terms of “annoying” people – first of all, they are never initially personally attacked. They use the excuse that they get frustrated that then justifies a personal attack. Really? It sounds like a 5 year old.

            My basic argument is that we have done in the past and continue to do restrictions and regulations. Who says we’ve done enough and should not do more and why?

            For instance, no where in the Constitution does it say that all people have the “right” to own fully-automatic weapons yet we do restrict them but when we say restrict high capacity magazines, it’s said to be a restriction the Constitution does not allow.

            The Constitution says nothing about restricting weapons on planes… yet no complaints about that so what’s the difference of restricing them in other venues? Why is one an infringement on their Constitutional rights and the other not?

            What’s the difference ?

          14. Nathan Avatar
            Nathan

            “What’s the difference ?”

            There are often Constitutional principles involved, which I would be happy to discuss another time. I’m taking a break from politics and watching the NFL playoffs. I’m sure this topic will come up again another day.

            Enjoy your day.

        2. Matt Adams Avatar
          Matt Adams

          “UpAgnstTheWall | January 9, 2021 at 11:17 am | Reply
          The wrong people are buying guns now so it’s time to be concerned.”

          Who are you to make that claim? Are you the arbiter of facts, as that cannot be the case as you’ve often stated lies.

        3. WayneS Avatar
          WayneS

          As far as I am concerned there is no such things as “the wrong people buying gun” as long as they can pass a background check and are not making a straw purchase.

  30. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
    James Wyatt Whitehead V

    26 million fire arms sold in 2020. This is just the beginning. Not good. Not warning anybody. Just saying.

    1. Matt Hurt Avatar
      Matt Hurt

      Government derives power from the consent of the governed. It appears that less people are consenting. I don’t think that the draconian measures being discussed will win any hearts and minds, or will cause any healing. I agree with you James, but I hope so bad that you are proven wrong.

      As it turns out, the information I have read is that the gun sales were not all from the usual crowd. There were significant number of purchases by folks who were first time gun buyers who also voted blue.

      1. Reed Fawell 3rd Avatar
        Reed Fawell 3rd

        All crimes including most serious are going through the roof, at the very same time that government is defunding and neutering the police, and refusing to enforce laws, except to punish political opponents, and are allowing looting and burning in many of America’s biggest cities. This is the cultural collapse of America. I suspect this is why more and more private citizens are buying guns for first time.

    2. ksmith8953 Avatar
      ksmith8953

      James, you bring up a good point. So does Matt. So what was Homeland Security looking at by way of predictors prior to the incident? Or did they have any predictors? Appeared to be few guns, more than likely they couldn’t get them on the plane. What could have predicted this? Social media from the most extreme in the group? Who was on first? All questions we have to answer? As someone said earlier, if I am a flight instructor and my student says I don’t need to learn how to land, how does that get communicated? Thanks

    3. Eric the Half a Troll Avatar
      Eric the Half a Troll

      What ARE you actually “just saying”? Inquiring minds want to know… Don’t be coy now…

      1. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
        James Wyatt Whitehead V

        I do not possess inner wisdom to issue any kind of warning. But the confluence of current events is concerning.

      2. UpAgnstTheWall Avatar
        UpAgnstTheWall

        The wrong people are buying guns now so it’s time to be concerned.

        1. Nathan Avatar
          Nathan

          You have a problem with women, minorities and liberals buying guns? Why is that?

          “That market is widening this year to include a new rush of first-time buyers, including many women, minorities and politically liberal buyers who once would not have considered gun ownership, according to Reuters interviews with more than a dozen industry experts, academics and gun store owners.”

          https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN2701HP

          1. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            but no problem with teachers you wouldn’t trust to give a COVID shot or CPR?

            I don’t think I would trust someone who went to a riot and wore their work ID badge…

            https://s.hdnux.com/photos/01/16/05/32/20469413/3/rawImage.jpg

          2. Nathan Avatar
            Nathan

            I still wish it were easier and cheaper for people to get some training. It’s not easy if someone works full time, and even then it’s expensive. A Basic Pistol class I just saw charges $179. Not everyone can afford that. As mentioned previously, the state helps with hunter safety training, but there is a much greater need for defensive training.

            There are lots of new owners, and the very people who shout the loudest and proclaim they are for “gun safety” are doing nothing to help them.

            I’ve started pursuing certification for handguns. I’ve taught rifle and shotgun for many years, but am not currently certified to provide handgun training. That’s not to say I’m not proficient, just not certified to teach.

            I have a certification for shotgun and enjoy teaching. A shotgun can be a good home defense option, but that’s not what most people are looking for.

          3. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            Totally on board Nathan and would argue if you have the money to buy a guy, you have a responsbility to get training and if training were mandatory – the market would provide affordable options.

            In terms of shotgun. Yep. My thinking is that if someone breaks into your house and then sees you with a shotgun and still comes – knowing your aim can be bad and still good…. good riddance.

          4. Nathan Avatar
            Nathan

            I don’t support mandatory instruction, but you would be amazed what I have seen over the years.

            I’ve also mentioned that serving in the military doesn’t necessarily provide the background for using firearms in civilian life. I don’t say that flippantly.

            Here’s just one example:

            I have a friend who retired from the Marines and actually served in Vietnam. He knows a thing or two about firearms. Several months ago he sent me a message that he inherited an old shotgun and was thinking of trying it out. I immediately cautioned him and asked him to describe it. Sure enough, it was made before modern powders and wasn’t safe to shoot with today’s ammo.

            My marine friend was very knowledgeable about only the firearms he used and under the circumstances there. There’s much more to consider as a civilian. And you don’t know what you don’t know.

            Unless they have other training, someone who learned in the military may be the last person on earth you would want to teach children. Teaching youth is altogether different from the military. It’s even different from what one learns with the NRA. It’s somewhat of a specialized skill.

          5. Nathan Avatar
            Nathan

            – Firearms can be dangerous
            – Chainsaws can be dangerous
            – Mulchers can be dangerous (I have a friend who lost an arm)
            – Gasoline is extremely dangerous (under the right conditions it is more powerful than TNT)
            – Horses can be dangerous
            – Electricity can be dangerous (I have stories there by the many)
            – This list is endless

            (I knew someone who got electrocuted with an aluminum ladder touching power lines.)

            I don’t want to live in Communist China or anything even approaching that where one needs permission to do almost anything. I believe in liberty, with accountability.

            With that said, I want to provide as much help in the way of instruction as reasonably possible. I also believe in volunteer service. That’s one reason I’m pursuing my certification to provide handgun instruction.

            I’m not asking the government to pay for every citizen to be trained with firearms. I’d just like them to provide the structure for qualified people to volunteer their time to help others.

            Doesn’t that make sense? Mandates only work with with penalties. Penalties only work if they are enforced. Do you really want to put a single mother struggling to keep her family safe in jail for not buying firearm training?

          6. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            Lots of dangerous things, yes, but you don’t take them into Walmart or other public venues and threaten others with them.

            Guns are more like vehicles and we require some level of competence in operating them – and folks are subject to review and sanctions when they don’t.

            If we go the other way. Why don’t we allow folks on planes or in courtrooms or polling places with guns?

            It just seems to be totally at odds with any real uniformity or consistency as to why we regulate or not.

          7. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
            James Wyatt Whitehead V

            I have a number of friends and family who are first time gun owners and concealed carry permit holders. People I would have never thought to purchase and take the extra steps to get the permit. Almost a bonding point to head down as a family to target shoot at Clarke Brothers. I have no problem with any of this. Legal and it appears that the folks I am speaking of are taking the responsibility seriously.

          8. Nathan Avatar
            Nathan

            Where did Walmart come from? I thought we were having a discussion about training? Pardon me for thinking we could focus on a topic.

            But yes, people take other unlicensed stuff with them into Walmart and threaten people. There’s no permit required for strong arms. Knives and “Other” are also readily available without a permit or training.

            “Number of robberies in the United States in 2019, by weapon used”

            https://www.statista.com/statistics/251914/number-of-robberies-in-the-us-by-weapon/

            “If we go the other way. Why don’t we allow folks on planes or in courtrooms or polling places with guns?”

            This is what annoys people. Nobody I know has suggested taking away all existing restrictions on guns. So why is this nonsense added to the discussion?

          9. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            re: Walmart and training.

            It’s people wandering around in public places with guns that don’t know how to use them.

            The point about planes, and courtrooms and polling places is that they were restrictions created and I ask what makes them the static situation?

            We develop restrictions as time goes back as opposed to not allowing any at all, never.

            We can do more – what is the argument that we cannot if we have done that all along over time already?

            In terms of “annoying” people – first of all, they are never initially personally attacked. They use the excuse that they get frustrated that then justifies a personal attack. Really? It sounds like a 5 year old.

            My basic argument is that we have done in the past and continue to do restrictions and regulations. Who says we’ve done enough and should not do more and why?

            For instance, no where in the Constitution does it say that all people have the “right” to own fully-automatic weapons yet we do restrict them but when we say restrict high capacity magazines, it’s said to be a restriction the Constitution does not allow.

            The Constitution says nothing about restricting weapons on planes… yet no complaints about that so what’s the difference of restricing them in other venues? Why is one an infringement on their Constitutional rights and the other not?

            What’s the difference ?

          10. Nathan Avatar
            Nathan

            “What’s the difference ?”

            There are often Constitutional principles involved, which I would be happy to discuss another time. I’m taking a break from politics and watching the NFL playoffs. I’m sure this topic will come up again another day.

            Enjoy your day.

        2. Matt Adams Avatar
          Matt Adams

          “UpAgnstTheWall | January 9, 2021 at 11:17 am | Reply
          The wrong people are buying guns now so it’s time to be concerned.”

          Who are you to make that claim? Are you the arbiter of facts, as that cannot be the case as you’ve often stated lies.

        3. WayneS Avatar
          WayneS

          As far as I am concerned there is no such things as “the wrong people buying gun” as long as they can pass a background check and are not making a straw purchase.

  31. TooManyTaxes Avatar
    TooManyTaxes

    And how about the two bigots, Senators Hornio and Harris, who attempted to impose a religious test on a nominee for a judgeship? And take the position that, while some people can advocate for restrictions on the right to bear arms, other people cannot advocate against abortion.

    I’m happy to denounce violence. Are you ready to denounce trashing the First Amendment and punishing people for their religious beliefs?

    1. ksmith8953 Avatar
      ksmith8953

      I certainly am not! Good point.

      1. Virginia Martin Avatar
        Virginia Martin

        Disagree that TMT makes a “good point.” This is just more tiresome Whataboutism (or Howaboutism, in this case).

        1. LarrytheG Avatar
          LarrytheG

          I do try to maintain an open dialogue with TMTso I will acknowledge points then try to add my thoughts.

          To my knowledge and to his credit, He has rarely, if ever, engaged in Ad Hominems even on strong disagreement.

        2. Matt Adams Avatar
          Matt Adams

          Another subsequent ad hom attack.

    2. LarrytheG Avatar
      LarrytheG

      Geeze TMT. one thing, and that’s it? If that’s your standard, there are going to be very few standing after…

      There are no saints. They all have their bad moments.

  32. TooManyTaxes Avatar
    TooManyTaxes

    And how about the two bigots, Senators Hornio and Harris, who attempted to impose a religious test on a nominee for a judgeship? And take the position that, while some people can advocate for restrictions on the right to bear arms, other people cannot advocate against abortion.

    I’m happy to denounce violence. Are you ready to denounce trashing the First Amendment and punishing people for their religious beliefs?

    1. ksmith8953 Avatar
      ksmith8953

      I certainly am not! Good point.

      1. Virginia Martin Avatar
        Virginia Martin

        Disagree that TMT makes a “good point.” This is just more tiresome Whataboutism (or Howaboutism, in this case).

        1. LarrytheG Avatar
          LarrytheG

          I do try to maintain an open dialogue with TMTso I will acknowledge points then try to add my thoughts.

          To my knowledge and to his credit, He has rarely, if ever, engaged in Ad Hominems even on strong disagreement.

        2. Matt Adams Avatar
          Matt Adams

          Another subsequent ad hom attack.

    2. LarrytheG Avatar
      LarrytheG

      Geeze TMT. one thing, and that’s it? If that’s your standard, there are going to be very few standing after…

      There are no saints. They all have their bad moments.

  33. John Harvie Avatar
    John Harvie

    One small thing that might help to avoid some of the protest mayhem, or at least partially defuse the situation before the gathering gets too riled up would be for police acting on anti noise ordinances temporarily on the spot confiscape all the leaders’ bullhorns. With the leaders’ lacking the means to loudly egg on the mob many protests might be less unruly or even disperse.

    The bullhorn could be returned to the owner later after payment both of a noise ordinance fine AND a not so small small storage fee. It’s done for the vehicle for parking infractions; why not for noise infractions?

    Bet the neighborhood residents would be grateful as well.

  34. Eric the Half a Troll Avatar
    Eric the Half a Troll

    The zip-tie guy, ex-Air Force, the woman who was shot and killed, ex-Air Force… 🤔

  35. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
    James Wyatt Whitehead V

    Does the Bitdefender product advertised here work against mean dogs? I am constantly being chased by mean dogs on my UPS delivery route on Blue Mountain.

    1. Nathan Avatar
      Nathan

      Only if you are worried about the dogs hacking your devices and stealing your data.

      I would think UPS would have the same policy as the USPS. If dogs are threatening, you don’t deliver.

      “Dog repellent is to be used on any dog that attacks, but it does not replace the policy of nondelivery of mail where there is a dog menace. Collection and delivery employees should promptly report to their supervisor the name and address of the customer where such a menace exists. The supervisor must immediately telephone the customer and request that the animal be confined during the usual deliv­ery hours in the neighborhood. The postmaster will inform the customer that no deliveries will be made until this is done. Employees are not to use the repellent where there is a danger of spraying people. Employees who indiscrimi­nately use repellent are subject to appropriate corrective action.”

      https://about.usps.com/postal-bulletin/2007/html/pb22205/dogkit.3.21.html

      1. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
        James Wyatt Whitehead V

        Does it work on bears? I was chased by a bear in November. Dead even foot/paw race. I won. Close call.

        1. Nathan Avatar
          Nathan

          That’s quite the job you have there. Have you thought about doing a reality show?

          1. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            I was thinking the same thing…. 😉

  36. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
    James Wyatt Whitehead V

    Does the Bitdefender product advertised here work against mean dogs? I am constantly being chased by mean dogs on my UPS delivery route on Blue Mountain.

    1. Nathan Avatar
      Nathan

      Only if you are worried about the dogs hacking your devices and stealing your data.

      I would think UPS would have the same policy as the USPS. If dogs are threatening, you don’t deliver.

      “Dog repellent is to be used on any dog that attacks, but it does not replace the policy of nondelivery of mail where there is a dog menace. Collection and delivery employees should promptly report to their supervisor the name and address of the customer where such a menace exists. The supervisor must immediately telephone the customer and request that the animal be confined during the usual deliv­ery hours in the neighborhood. The postmaster will inform the customer that no deliveries will be made until this is done. Employees are not to use the repellent where there is a danger of spraying people. Employees who indiscrimi­nately use repellent are subject to appropriate corrective action.”

      https://about.usps.com/postal-bulletin/2007/html/pb22205/dogkit.3.21.html

      1. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
        James Wyatt Whitehead V

        Does it work on bears? I was chased by a bear in November. Dead even foot/paw race. I won. Close call.

        1. Nathan Avatar
          Nathan

          That’s quite the job you have there. Have you thought about doing a reality show?

  37. LarrytheG Avatar
    LarrytheG

    In other “news”, the 10-15 Trump emails I had been receiving daily have stopped.. None.

  38. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
    Dick Hall-Sizemore

    Peter is in unusual company. Trump gave us the same warning: “If Biden wins, the rioters will be running your government.” https://www.facebook.com/officialteamtrump/videos/if-biden-wins-the-rioters-will-be-running-your-government/366185984501523/

    1. LarrytheG Avatar
      LarrytheG

      Indeed, some rumors that Biden will be creating a new Cabinet – Office of Antifa and BLM protests.

      1. Nathan Avatar
        Nathan

        Get serious.

        “Biden’s Cabinet Nominees Are Weak on China
        Which means the CCP will continue to take advantage of America.”

        “Although Biden admitted in a Foreign Affairs essay this spring that he must get tougher on China, his inner circle now features former Secretary of State John Kerry, who infamously remarked that the United States does not seek to contain China. It also includes new national security adviser Jake Sullivan, who has gone further than Kerry by stating that America should play an active role in encouraging China’s growth.”

        “There are also rumors that Bob Iger, Executive Chairman of the Walt Disney Company, may become ambassador to China. Under his stewardship, Disney has developed close ties to the communist government. For example, Iger earned a hefty amount of criticism after Disney thanked the security forces in charge of the Uyghur concentration camps in the credits of Mulan. This is hardly someone we can count on to uphold America’s national security interests. ”

        https://spectator.org/biden-cabinet-china/

        1. LarrytheG Avatar
          LarrytheG

          Yep. I’m gonna take Bidens approach over Trump every day until I see actual worse.

          No one knew from one day to the next what our policy was, including our allies… You can’t do policy like that.

          1. Nathan Avatar
            Nathan

            Just because you aren’t aware of the policy doesn’t mean there isn’t one.

            Donald Trump’s message to Xi Jinping: the United States intends to disengage with your country to the greatest extent possible.

            The U.S. won’t talk to Beijing about trade until the Chinese, in the words of the Wall Street Journal, submit a “concrete proposal to address Washington’s complaints about forced technology transfers and other economic issues.”

            “The Trump administration is quickly reversing four decades of American thinking. Presidents from Nixon to Obama made the success of China’s Communist Party a goal of U.S. policy.”

            “But Trump has not only eliminated that goal—his policies are either hostile to Beijing or indifferent to its interests—he is also disengaging from China altogether. And that is, despite concern, a good thing. Our relations with the Chinese state probably will be better, at least in the long run, with less—not more—contact.”

            https://nationalinterest.org/feature/trump-curveball-what-china-didnt-expect-34782

            Biden will maintain and even worsen our dependence on China for essentials. He will continue the wholesale transfer of our technology, and help them on their way to overtake us as the worlds dominant power. Won’t life be grand then.

            Then entire world will suffer as a result. Maybe I should take up smoking so I don’t live to see the worst of it.

          2. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            It was chaos Nathan… from one day to the next, no one knew what Trump would do next.

            It was not an “approach” – it was whatever Trump decided – day to day.

            I have far more confidence in Biden because he will involve other professionals and will be guided by their options presented and recommendations.

            We cannot have the country run by one guy who decides on a day-to-day basis…

            deciding ahead of time what Biden will or will not do on actual policy?

            Nope. You don’t know. And I’m betting there will be a group of advisors and that we will not be making changes from one day to the next.

          3. Nathan Avatar
            Nathan

            Yes, let’s see what happens.

            The Trump administration has for the first time confronted China’s theft and aggression.

            The Trump administration has numerous treaties in the Middle East that Kerry insisted couldn’t happen.

            Our NATO partners have started paying more for their own defense.

            We are no longer paying Palestinians to terrorize Israel.

            We have defeated ISIS and started no new wars.

            Indeed. Let’s see where things stand in 4 years.

          4. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            Nathan – our allies have NO IDEA what happens one day to the next… that’ can’t be good.

          5. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            Larry,

            With all due respect, my personal information (I presume you got those notices as well?) was hacked by China 5 times under FPOTUS Obama and VP Biden. There were no sanctions, there were no repercussion. The notion that a POTUS Biden will be tough on China and the like, is in a word laughable.

          6. Nancy_Naive Avatar
            Nancy_Naive

            Matt,
            Re: OPM Breach

            That we know of.

          7. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            Matt – how can you be so sure ahead of time what will or will not happen?

            Sanctions can and are carried out not in the public realm, oftentimes in concert with allies, banking systems, etc.

            What Trump was doing was grandstanding and we never knew from one day to the next what he would do next. He actually claimed that as a feature and not a “bug”!

            Good Riddance to that kind of chaos.

            We work with our allies , that takes coordination to use global power against China without shooting ourselves or each other in the foot.

            Good Riddance to Trumpism.

          8. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            re: “that we know of”. Yup, unfortunately.

            Neither government nor corporate will fess up unless
            someone is threatening to expose it and them.

          9. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            Larry,

            I’m not sure ahead of time, it has already occurred and nothing was done. To assume that it would be different now is just a pipe dream. PE Biden’s cabinet is FPOTUS Obama 3.0.

            Trump has nothing to do with my comment, if you can’t stay focused. Don’t comment.

          10. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            “Nancy_Naive | January 11, 2021 at 9:12 am |
            Matt,
            Re: OPM Breach

            That we know of.”

            NN you are correct, those are merely the breaches that we have been made aware of by OPM or whatever they are calling themselves these days.

          11. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            hmmm.. Choose between our China Policy for the prior 4 years and the next?

            no contest. Yes, relevant.

            no, you cannot predict the future using your politics.

          12. Nancy_Naive Avatar
            Nancy_Naive

            Yes, Matt, but both. Other breaches and unknown sanctions. Sometimes we are uninformed players in the game.

          13. Nathan Avatar
            Nathan

            “Sometimes we are uninformed players in the game.”

            That’s the biggest problem with having a Democrat in the Whitehouse. The national news media is only interested in pursuing Republicans. The problems with Biden were apparent for a long time, but if a story didn’t have a connection to the Orange Man, it wouldn’t get attention.

            Communist China clearly favors Democrats, but the news media wasn’t always quite this bad.

            “The chief of China’s military intelligence secretly directed funds from Beijing to help reelect President Clinton in 1996, former Democratic fund-raiser Johnny Chung has told federal investigators.”

            “Chung says he met three times with the intelligence official, Gen. Ji Shengde, who ordered $300,000 deposited into the Torrance businessman’s bank account to subsidize campaign donations intended for Clinton, according to sources familiar with Chung’s sealed statements to federal prosecutors.”

            “During their initial meeting on Aug. 11, 1996, in Hong Kong, Ji conveyed to Chung the Chinese government’s specific interest in supporting Clinton:”

            “We like your president,” Ji said, according to sources familiar with Chung’s grand jury testimony. Chung testified that he was introduced to the intelligence chief by the daughter of China’s retired senior military officer.

            “Chung’s testimony has provided investigators the first direct link between a senior Chinese government official and illicit foreign contributions that were funneled into Clinton’s 1996 reelection effort. It is the strongest evidence to emerge–in two years of federal investigations–that the highest levels of the Chinese government sought to influence the U.S. election process.”

            LA Times – 1999

            https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1999-apr-04-mn-24189-story.html

          14. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            “Nancy_Naive | January 11, 2021 at 9:32 am |
            Yes, Matt, but both. Other breaches and unknown sanctions. Sometimes we are uninformed players in the game.”

            Administrations do not impose sanctions quietly, they are done to maximize political points. Given that FPOTUS Obama’s SoS was running for the Office in 2016 and had taken a tough stance on TPP after the urging of Sen. Sanders. FPOTUS Obama would’ve used that to maximize Sec. Clinton’s chances of election.

            https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/10/05/trump-sanctions-iran-venezuela-russia-north-korea-different-obamas/

          15. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            “LarrytheG | January 11, 2021 at 9:19 am |
            hmmm.. Choose between our China Policy for the prior 4 years and the next?

            no contest. Yes, relevant.

            no, you cannot predict the future using your politics.”

            Larry,

            Precedent is not politics, it’s documented pattern of behavior. See Pavlov.

  39. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
    Dick Hall-Sizemore

    Peter is in unusual company. Trump gave us the same warning: “If Biden wins, the rioters will be running your government.” https://www.facebook.com/officialteamtrump/videos/if-biden-wins-the-rioters-will-be-running-your-government/366185984501523/

    1. LarrytheG Avatar
      LarrytheG

      Indeed, some rumors that Biden will be creating a new Cabinet – Office of Antifa and BLM protests.

      1. Nathan Avatar
        Nathan

        Get serious.

        “Biden’s Cabinet Nominees Are Weak on China
        Which means the CCP will continue to take advantage of America.”

        “Although Biden admitted in a Foreign Affairs essay this spring that he must get tougher on China, his inner circle now features former Secretary of State John Kerry, who infamously remarked that the United States does not seek to contain China. It also includes new national security adviser Jake Sullivan, who has gone further than Kerry by stating that America should play an active role in encouraging China’s growth.”

        “There are also rumors that Bob Iger, Executive Chairman of the Walt Disney Company, may become ambassador to China. Under his stewardship, Disney has developed close ties to the communist government. For example, Iger earned a hefty amount of criticism after Disney thanked the security forces in charge of the Uyghur concentration camps in the credits of Mulan. This is hardly someone we can count on to uphold America’s national security interests. ”

        https://spectator.org/biden-cabinet-china/

        1. LarrytheG Avatar
          LarrytheG

          Yep. I’m gonna take Bidens approach over Trump every day until I see actual worse.

          No one knew from one day to the next what our policy was, including our allies… You can’t do policy like that.

          1. Nathan Avatar
            Nathan

            Just because you aren’t aware of the policy doesn’t mean there isn’t one.

            Donald Trump’s message to Xi Jinping: the United States intends to disengage with your country to the greatest extent possible.

            The U.S. won’t talk to Beijing about trade until the Chinese, in the words of the Wall Street Journal, submit a “concrete proposal to address Washington’s complaints about forced technology transfers and other economic issues.”

            “The Trump administration is quickly reversing four decades of American thinking. Presidents from Nixon to Obama made the success of China’s Communist Party a goal of U.S. policy.”

            “But Trump has not only eliminated that goal—his policies are either hostile to Beijing or indifferent to its interests—he is also disengaging from China altogether. And that is, despite concern, a good thing. Our relations with the Chinese state probably will be better, at least in the long run, with less—not more—contact.”

            https://nationalinterest.org/feature/trump-curveball-what-china-didnt-expect-34782

            Biden will maintain and even worsen our dependence on China for essentials. He will continue the wholesale transfer of our technology, and help them on their way to overtake us as the worlds dominant power. Won’t life be grand then.

            Then entire world will suffer as a result. Maybe I should take up smoking so I don’t live to see the worst of it.

          2. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            It was chaos Nathan… from one day to the next, no one knew what Trump would do next.

            It was not an “approach” – it was whatever Trump decided – day to day.

            I have far more confidence in Biden because he will involve other professionals and will be guided by their options presented and recommendations.

            We cannot have the country run by one guy who decides on a day-to-day basis…

            deciding ahead of time what Biden will or will not do on actual policy?

            Nope. You don’t know. And I’m betting there will be a group of advisors and that we will not be making changes from one day to the next.

          3. Nathan Avatar
            Nathan

            Yes, let’s see what happens.

            The Trump administration has for the first time confronted China’s theft and aggression.

            The Trump administration has numerous treaties in the Middle East that Kerry insisted couldn’t happen.

            Our NATO partners have started paying more for their own defense.

            We are no longer paying Palestinians to terrorize Israel.

            We have defeated ISIS and started no new wars.

            Indeed. Let’s see where things stand in 4 years.

          4. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            Nathan – our allies have NO IDEA what happens one day to the next… that’ can’t be good.

          5. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            hmmm.. Choose between our China Policy for the prior 4 years and the next?

            no contest. Yes, relevant.

            no, you cannot predict the future using your politics.

          6. Nancy_Naive Avatar
            Nancy_Naive

            Yes, Matt, but both. Other breaches and unknown sanctions. Sometimes we are uninformed players in the game.

          7. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            “Nancy_Naive | January 11, 2021 at 9:32 am |
            Yes, Matt, but both. Other breaches and unknown sanctions. Sometimes we are uninformed players in the game.”

            Administrations do not impose sanctions quietly, they are done to maximize political points. Given that FPOTUS Obama’s SoS was running for the Office in 2016 and had taken a tough stance on TPP after the urging of Sen. Sanders. FPOTUS Obama would’ve used that to maximize Sec. Clinton’s chances of election.

            https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/10/05/trump-sanctions-iran-venezuela-russia-north-korea-different-obamas/

          8. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            Larry,

            With all due respect, my personal information (I presume you got those notices as well?) was hacked by China 5 times under FPOTUS Obama and VP Biden. There were no sanctions, there were no repercussion. The notion that a POTUS Biden will be tough on China and the like, is in a word laughable.

          9. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            “Nancy_Naive | January 11, 2021 at 9:12 am |
            Matt,
            Re: OPM Breach

            That we know of.”

            NN you are correct, those are merely the breaches that we have been made aware of by OPM or whatever they are calling themselves these days.

          10. Nathan Avatar
            Nathan

            “Sometimes we are uninformed players in the game.”

            That’s the biggest problem with having a Democrat in the Whitehouse. The national news media is only interested in pursuing Republicans. The problems with Biden were apparent for a long time, but if a story didn’t have a connection to the Orange Man, it wouldn’t get attention.

            Communist China clearly favors Democrats, but the news media wasn’t always quite this bad.

            “The chief of China’s military intelligence secretly directed funds from Beijing to help reelect President Clinton in 1996, former Democratic fund-raiser Johnny Chung has told federal investigators.”

            “Chung says he met three times with the intelligence official, Gen. Ji Shengde, who ordered $300,000 deposited into the Torrance businessman’s bank account to subsidize campaign donations intended for Clinton, according to sources familiar with Chung’s sealed statements to federal prosecutors.”

            “During their initial meeting on Aug. 11, 1996, in Hong Kong, Ji conveyed to Chung the Chinese government’s specific interest in supporting Clinton:”

            “We like your president,” Ji said, according to sources familiar with Chung’s grand jury testimony. Chung testified that he was introduced to the intelligence chief by the daughter of China’s retired senior military officer.

            “Chung’s testimony has provided investigators the first direct link between a senior Chinese government official and illicit foreign contributions that were funneled into Clinton’s 1996 reelection effort. It is the strongest evidence to emerge–in two years of federal investigations–that the highest levels of the Chinese government sought to influence the U.S. election process.”

            LA Times – 1999

            https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1999-apr-04-mn-24189-story.html

  40. jyl1st Avatar
    jyl1st

    Thank God for the 81M Americans who chose to stop the bleeding and stem the tide of this incredible menace that has taken over much of our country.

    This is a surprise to none of us 81M and over half the country, we have been speaking of this since July of 2015. Tony Schwartz, the author who actually wrote the Art of the Deal since that time has repeatedly tried to warn the nation.

    This fever has affected most of the Republican party, and only now, albeit very incredibly slowly is their recognition of this reality.

    What is missing is the kind of total and complete repudiation necessary from sycophant supporters within the Amen Chorus and whataboutismists, including those who write on this blog.

    Unlike in previous years in our history – 1865, 1876, 1963, 2001, 2005, 2008, 2016-2020, this time hopefully there will be swift justice and retribution to the seditious conspirators that have flagrantly taken our country to the abyss.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2021/01/08/capitol-riot-trump-forecast-encouraged/

  41. Peter Galuszka Avatar
    Peter Galuszka

    A decent President would resign. He must be held accountable but another impeachment is just a gesture and there’s not enough time. Trump
    Loses immunity on Jan. 20. He faces criminal probes in New York. He owes Deutsch bank more than $400 million. Maybe he could be arrested the moment Biden snd Harris are sworn in. I fear more violence that day.
    One question. When did I ever advocate violence in Portland or Richmond or anywhere? This is another right wing diversion. And, in case you don’t get it, the Capitol insurrection was designed to prevent Congress from doing their duty and certifying a legally elected president. That’s huge.
    Also, having lived through a much more violent coup attempt and leading a team of. Journalists in some extremely stressful and dangerous moments, I deeply resent the comment that Nathan, Haner and someone else are the “adults” in the discussion. but on Jan. 6, I heard from a colleague was with me during the violence which involved automatic weapons and shelling by late model
    Tanks. No more patronization. It embarrasses you.

    1. UpAgnstTheWall Avatar
      UpAgnstTheWall

      There are 11 days between now and January 20 – that’s plenty of time to impeach and convict if Congress is serious about it.

    2. Matt Hurt Avatar
      Matt Hurt

      I can’t say that we’ve had a decent president in my lifetime, and only one (Nixon) resigned. There is very little precedent for non-decent presidents resigning.

  42. Peter Galuszka Avatar
    Peter Galuszka

    Up Against the Wall. Don’t get me wrong. I am all for impeachment and removal. I actually read the Mueller report and counted maybe a dozen acts of obstruction of justice. They should have been acted upon. My concern is getting this SOB out of power as soon as possible and with the least chaos. Then he can answer for what he has done.

  43. Nancy_Naive Avatar
    Nancy_Naive

    Just impeach him. He doesn’t have to have the Senate trial. While under impeachment he cannot issue a pardon.

    1. LarrytheG Avatar
      LarrytheG

      did not realize that. count me in.

      1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
        Nancy_Naive

        I was sending letters to Pelosi last time saying “just sit on it” don’t send to McConnell to get quashed.

        “… and he shall have power to grant reprieves and pardons for offenses against the United States, except in cases of impeachment.”

  44. Nancy_Naive Avatar
    Nancy_Naive

    Just impeach him. He doesn’t have to have the Senate trial. While under impeachment he cannot issue a pardon.

    1. LarrytheG Avatar
      LarrytheG

      did not realize that. count me in.

      1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
        Nancy_Naive

        I was sending letters to Pelosi last time saying “just sit on it” don’t send to McConnell to get quashed.

        “… and he shall have power to grant reprieves and pardons for offenses against the United States, except in cases of impeachment.”

  45. jyl1st Avatar
    jyl1st

    He will be impeached on Monday. The Senate does not meet again in full session (unless all 100 vote to take up business prior to then) until 1/19. The earliest for a trial is 1pm on 1/20/2021. We definitely get to get all Senators on the record with a vote for or against Seditious Conspiracy – let them state their views with their votes. Make it happen. This POTUS WILL do something no other POTUS has ever done – get impeached twice – in just one term! So much Winning!

    The right thing is impeachment, conviction (Trump loses all benefits if convicted – no pension, travel budget, secret service protection, and loses ability to run again), then let the criminal justice system do their work and charge him for his many other crimes that have been under investigation by the Attorney for Southern District of NY, all while he staves off the other many pending/active lawsuits and the $500M+ in debts coming due as his business craters.

    For these reasons, Speaker Pelosi was wise to reach out to Joint Chiefs Chair Milley to ensure an order for nuclear attack would be refused if given by this crazy king before he is removed at noon, on 1/20/2021.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/senate-impeachment-trump-mcconnell/2021/01/08/5f650ad0-520d-11eb-b2e8-3339e73d9da2_story.html

    1. Reed Fawell 3rd Avatar
      Reed Fawell 3rd

      Yes, jyl1st, you nailed it exactly a political show trial as done with great regularity in Russia, China, Cuba, and Iran, combined with a political hate lynching as done with some regularly in the Old American South and the borderlands of a Cormac McCarthy novel, and the buffoonish political trials of Banana Republics such as Venezuela, Guatemala, El Salvador and Nicaragua. All this will turned America into the Balkans if its foreign enemies don’t eat it alive first.

  46. jyl1st Avatar
    jyl1st

    He will be impeached on Monday. The Senate does not meet again in full session (unless all 100 vote to take up business prior to then) until 1/19. The earliest for a trial is 1pm on 1/20/2021. We definitely get to get all Senators on the record with a vote for or against Seditious Conspiracy – let them state their views with their votes. Make it happen. This POTUS WILL do something no other POTUS has ever done – get impeached twice – in just one term! So much Winning!

    The right thing is impeachment, conviction (Trump loses all benefits if convicted – no pension, travel budget, secret service protection, and loses ability to run again), then let the criminal justice system do their work and charge him for his many other crimes that have been under investigation by the Attorney for Southern District of NY, all while he staves off the other many pending/active lawsuits and the $500M+ in debts coming due as his business craters.

    For these reasons, Speaker Pelosi was wise to reach out to Joint Chiefs Chair Milley to ensure an order for nuclear attack would be refused if given by this crazy king before he is removed at noon, on 1/20/2021.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/senate-impeachment-trump-mcconnell/2021/01/08/5f650ad0-520d-11eb-b2e8-3339e73d9da2_story.html

    1. Reed Fawell 3rd Avatar
      Reed Fawell 3rd

      Yes, jyl1st, you nailed it exactly a political show trial as done with great regularity in Russia, China, Cuba, and Iran, combined with a political hate lynching as done with some regularly in the Old American South and the borderlands of a Cormac McCarthy novel, and the buffoonish political trials of Banana Republics such as Venezuela, Guatemala, El Salvador and Nicaragua. All this will turned America into the Balkans if its foreign enemies don’t eat it alive first.

  47. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
    James Wyatt Whitehead V

    PG next time you put out one of your warnings be sure to include this link as a public service. Be sure to inform the public if it is just a test or the real thing.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9p3wIBjiV0

    1. LarrytheG Avatar
      LarrytheG

      Will do. I have the story of the failed river crossing for you also if you want to hear it. Lot of irony with respect to “preservation”. 😉

  48. Nancy_Naive Avatar
    Nancy_Naive

    Just another Trump tailgate party.

  49. Nancy_Naive Avatar
    Nancy_Naive

    Just another Trump tailgate party.

  50. Peter Galuszka Avatar
    Peter Galuszka

    Reed. Linking this incompetent and dangerous buffoon to authoritarian states just shows how out of touch you are.

  51. Peter Galuszka Avatar
    Peter Galuszka

    Reed. Linking this incompetent and dangerous buffoon to authoritarian states just shows how out of touch you are.

  52. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
    James Wyatt Whitehead V

    PG next time you put out one of your warnings be sure to include this link as a public service. Be sure to inform the public if it is just a test or the real thing.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9p3wIBjiV0

    1. LarrytheG Avatar
      LarrytheG

      Will do. I have the story of the failed river crossing for you also if you want to hear it. Lot of irony with respect to “preservation”. 😉

  53. djrippert Avatar
    djrippert

    Peter, you forgot one article of warning …

    https://www.baconsrebellion.com/virginia-needs-to-prepare-for-novembers-election/

    “The gathering storm. Virginia, along with the rest of the nation, faces a gathering storm. Ongoing civil strife, deep political divisions, economic despair and a hyper-emotional election that may not be decided for weeks after the voting ends adds up to the equivalent of a fuse on keg of dynamite.”

    Fortunately (for us) the riots came to DC not Virginia. We were no better prepared than DC.

  54. djrippert Avatar
    djrippert

    Peter, you forgot one article of warning …

    https://www.baconsrebellion.com/virginia-needs-to-prepare-for-novembers-election/

    “The gathering storm. Virginia, along with the rest of the nation, faces a gathering storm. Ongoing civil strife, deep political divisions, economic despair and a hyper-emotional election that may not be decided for weeks after the voting ends adds up to the equivalent of a fuse on keg of dynamite.”

    Fortunately (for us) the riots came to DC not Virginia. We were no better prepared than DC.

  55. Peter Galuszka Avatar
    Peter Galuszka

    Ripper. Yes. Sorry

    1. Nathan Avatar
      Nathan

      I’d be interested to understand what the appropriate response of law enforcement should have been in your view. Whatever you advocate should be applicable without regard to the political leanings of the protect and protesters.

      I would advocate similar measures for all violent rioting. It should start with a sufficient show of force to dissuade attempts to commit any acts of violence.

      “Capitol Police Rejected Offers of Federal Help to Quell Mob”

      https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2021/01/08/capitol_police_rejected_offers_of_federal_help_to_quell_mob_144996.html

  56. Peter Galuszka Avatar
    Peter Galuszka

    Ripper. Yes. Sorry

    1. Nathan Avatar
      Nathan

      I’d be interested to understand what the appropriate response of law enforcement should have been in your view. Whatever you advocate should be applicable without regard to the political leanings of the protect and protesters.

      I would advocate similar measures for all violent rioting. It should start with a sufficient show of force to dissuade attempts to commit any acts of violence.

      “Capitol Police Rejected Offers of Federal Help to Quell Mob”

      https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2021/01/08/capitol_police_rejected_offers_of_federal_help_to_quell_mob_144996.html

  57. Peter Galuszka Avatar
    Peter Galuszka

    Nathan, You may well be right about Democrats and the Chinese regime in the past. If you recall, Terry McAuliffe got involved with Hillary Clinton’s brother in a dubious deal about a green car plant and Chinese investment for visas.
    That has changed. I think all sides are taken aback with Xi Jinping’s authoritarian nature, the massive domestic surveillance, the massive concentration camps for Uighurs and the crack down of democracy in Hong Kong.
    You give Trump far too much credit. He never had a coherent policy, especially on trade. He bashed close allies like Canada and Mexico, killed the TPP, is pals with Putin and the North Korean guy with the funny haircut and was so incompetent, he’d fire U.S.. trade officials and then not replace them.
    The Democrats will do a much better job.

    1. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
      James Wyatt Whitehead V

      “The Democrats will do a much better job.”
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Izz4XKo3GPg

    2. Nathan Avatar
      Nathan

      “You may well be right about Democrats and the Chinese regime in the past.”

      To hell with the past, I’m sincerely concerned about a Manchurian candidate in the present. There’s no question China preferred Biden over Trump.

      “Hunter Biden and the ‘big guy’: the anatomy of a foreign enrichment scandal”

      “New evidence that surfaced in recent weeks provides a more complete picture of Hunter Biden’s business endeavors and their correlation to his father’s policy responsibilities as vice president.”

      https://justthenews.com/accountability/russia-and-ukraine-scandals/timeline-key-events-hunter-biden-overseas-business

    3. Nathan Avatar
      Nathan

      “The Democrats will do a much better job.”

      They’ve done nothing up till now, especially during the 8 years of the the Obama administration. We will see. I hope you can muster some criticism for a Democrat administration falling short.

      “That has changed. I think all sides are taken aback with Xi Jinping’s authoritarian nature, the massive domestic surveillance, the massive concentration camps for Uighurs and the crack down of democracy in Hong Kong.”

      I’m not seeing a lot of outrage from Democrats, and it seems like people on this blog think the treatment of the Uighurs is what should be done with Trump supporters.

  58. Peter Galuszka Avatar
    Peter Galuszka

    Wow!
    A whole hour?

    1. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
      James Wyatt Whitehead V

      Maybe the Democrats will do better this time. Now is their time. Lets see what happens. Watershed moment we haven’t seen since 1932 or 1964. Do expect an unforeseen event in the future to bring this new chapter to a close. The New Deal ended with WW2. The Great Society was derailed by 1968. Just as 2020 brought an end to Trump’s America First.

      1. Nathan Avatar
        Nathan

        If the NBA is any clue, that’s doubtful. Those valiant social justice warriors won’t say squat about the concentration camps or conditions where their Nike apparel is made – too much money at stake.

        1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
          Nancy_Naive

          Nike? What’s Haiti got to do with it? Btw, what’s on your feet?

          1. Nathan Avatar
            Nathan

            The US sportswear company Nike have had a sizeable number of factories based in China for many years.

            Although the headquarters is based in Oregon, USA, the company has over 700 shops worldwide, offices across 45 countries and over 700 contract factories with nearly 1 million workers across 50 countries.

            Nike has been working in China for over 30 years when they started to sub-contract production to overseas factories.

            At present there are around 146 factories in China employing 189,000 workers.

            Nike make a large variety of products in factories across China.

            https://www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/guides/zxm3srd/revision/4#:~:text=Nike%20has%20been%20working%20in%20China%20for%20over,large%20variety%20of%20products%20in%20factories%20across%20China.

            “Btw, what’s on your feet?”

            Right now? Cotton socks.

          2. Nancy_Naive Avatar
            Nancy_Naive

            “Right now? Cotton socks”. At noon? Covid has had an effect.

          3. Nathan Avatar
            Nathan

            This is why NBA players won’t be critical of China.

            “NBA China, a separate business arm of the NBA, was valued at $5 billion by Sports Business Journal last month.”

            “Separate from the NBA’s partnerships in China, players are invested in the country, too. Several of them, including stars LeBron James and Steph Curry, make annual visits to sell apparel products from Nike and Under Armour.”

            https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/2019/10/09/nba-china-hong-kong-whats-at-stake/3912447002/

            BTW – When I go outside I wear Skechers which are made in Vietnam. They are also very comfortable on my feet. Having broken several bones in my feet that were never set, this is important.

  59. Peter Galuszka Avatar
    Peter Galuszka

    Nathan,
    I just got off the phone with an international trade expert for another project. He said that Biden will continue the hard line against the Chinese

    1. Nathan Avatar
      Nathan

      Has Biden been informed of that yet? If he has, does he remember?

      I thought a little humor was in order. Thanks for the feedback.

  60. Peter Galuszka Avatar
    Peter Galuszka

    Nathan, You may well be right about Democrats and the Chinese regime in the past. If you recall, Terry McAuliffe got involved with Hillary Clinton’s brother in a dubious deal about a green car plant and Chinese investment for visas.
    That has changed. I think all sides are taken aback with Xi Jinping’s authoritarian nature, the massive domestic surveillance, the massive concentration camps for Uighurs and the crack down of democracy in Hong Kong.
    You give Trump far too much credit. He never had a coherent policy, especially on trade. He bashed close allies like Canada and Mexico, killed the TPP, is pals with Putin and the North Korean guy with the funny haircut and was so incompetent, he’d fire U.S.. trade officials and then not replace them.
    The Democrats will do a much better job.

    1. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
      James Wyatt Whitehead V

      “The Democrats will do a much better job.”
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Izz4XKo3GPg

    2. Nathan Avatar
      Nathan

      “The Democrats will do a much better job.”

      They’ve done nothing up till now, especially during the 8 years of the the Obama administration. We will see. I hope you can muster some criticism for a Democrat administration falling short.

      “That has changed. I think all sides are taken aback with Xi Jinping’s authoritarian nature, the massive domestic surveillance, the massive concentration camps for Uighurs and the crack down of democracy in Hong Kong.”

      I’m not seeing a lot of outrage from Democrats, and it seems like people on this blog think the treatment of the Uighurs is what should be done with Trump supporters.

    3. Nathan Avatar
      Nathan

      “You may well be right about Democrats and the Chinese regime in the past.”

      To hell with the past, I’m sincerely concerned about a Manchurian candidate in the present. There’s no question China preferred Biden over Trump.

      “Hunter Biden and the ‘big guy’: the anatomy of a foreign enrichment scandal”

      “New evidence that surfaced in recent weeks provides a more complete picture of Hunter Biden’s business endeavors and their correlation to his father’s policy responsibilities as vice president.”

      https://justthenews.com/accountability/russia-and-ukraine-scandals/timeline-key-events-hunter-biden-overseas-business

  61. Peter Galuszka Avatar
    Peter Galuszka

    Wow!
    A whole hour?

    1. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
      James Wyatt Whitehead V

      Maybe the Democrats will do better this time. Now is their time. Lets see what happens. Watershed moment we haven’t seen since 1932 or 1964. Do expect an unforeseen event in the future to bring this new chapter to a close. The New Deal ended with WW2. The Great Society was derailed by 1968. Just as 2020 brought an end to Trump’s America First.

      1. Nathan Avatar
        Nathan

        If the NBA is any clue, that’s doubtful. Those valiant social justice warriors won’t say squat about the concentration camps or conditions where their Nike apparel is made – too much money at stake.

        1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
          Nancy_Naive

          Nike? What’s Haiti got to do with it? Btw, what’s on your feet?

          1. Nathan Avatar
            Nathan

            The US sportswear company Nike have had a sizeable number of factories based in China for many years.

            Although the headquarters is based in Oregon, USA, the company has over 700 shops worldwide, offices across 45 countries and over 700 contract factories with nearly 1 million workers across 50 countries.

            Nike has been working in China for over 30 years when they started to sub-contract production to overseas factories.

            At present there are around 146 factories in China employing 189,000 workers.

            Nike make a large variety of products in factories across China.

            https://www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/guides/zxm3srd/revision/4#:~:text=Nike%20has%20been%20working%20in%20China%20for%20over,large%20variety%20of%20products%20in%20factories%20across%20China.

            “Btw, what’s on your feet?”

            Right now? Cotton socks.

          2. Nancy_Naive Avatar
            Nancy_Naive

            “Right now? Cotton socks”. At noon? Covid has had an effect.

          3. Nathan Avatar
            Nathan

            This is why NBA players won’t be critical of China.

            “NBA China, a separate business arm of the NBA, was valued at $5 billion by Sports Business Journal last month.”

            “Separate from the NBA’s partnerships in China, players are invested in the country, too. Several of them, including stars LeBron James and Steph Curry, make annual visits to sell apparel products from Nike and Under Armour.”

            https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/2019/10/09/nba-china-hong-kong-whats-at-stake/3912447002/

            BTW – When I go outside I wear Skechers which are made in Vietnam. They are also very comfortable on my feet. Having broken several bones in my feet that were never set, this is important.

  62. Peter Galuszka Avatar
    Peter Galuszka

    Nathan,
    I just got off the phone with an international trade expert for another project. He said that Biden will continue the hard line against the Chinese

    1. Nathan Avatar
      Nathan

      Has Biden been informed of that yet? If he has, does he remember?

      I thought a little humor was in order. Thanks for the feedback.

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