The Pellerito family: “We go through each day just trying our best. What are the new rules? What is right?”

by James A. Bacon

Give Amanda Chase credit for one thing: She knows how to get into the news. Whether the resulting headlines help the Chesterfield state senator win the Republican Party nomination for governor is quite another matter. The latest brouhaha over her refusal to wear a mask in a Harrisonburg restaurant is not likely to help.

After making a campaign stop in New Market over the weekend with rock musician Ted Nugent, Chase visited Vito’s Italian Kitchen in Harrisonburg for a meal. She did not wear a mask. On two separate occasions, according to her Facebook account, employees denied her service, even though she explained that she had an underlying health condition that did not allow her to wear one. Upon providing a letter from her doctor, she was provided service but “not without being harassed and belittled in front of other store patrons.”

Katharine Nye Pellerito, who owns the restaurant with her husband, posted her own version of the encounter on Facebook. Chase got confrontational and threatened to sue, she wrote. “The uncertainty of Covid … as it threatens our ability to maintain our restaurants has been exhausting, to say the least. Last night was tough. We go through each day trying our best What are the new rules? What is right? What does the law expect? Who is going to yell at us for trying to do the right thing today?”

Chase argued that she was standing her ground “because there are thousands of disabled Virginians who are being victimized and harassed because of this Governor’s confusing and ever changing executive orders. … We must fight back against the overreach of Governor Northam! Virginians reach out to me every day asking what they can do to go out in public to do regular activities like shop for groceries, get a hair cut children missing out on sports or work to support their families when wearing a mask is not a viable option for them.”

The candidate also expressed sympathy for small business across the state who have been threatened with losing their business licenses and aggressive fines if they fail to enforce the mask mandate. “Small businesses continue to do their best to piece together policies and practices to keep their businesses open, but the incongruous information they are receiving from the Governor is causing a massive problem.”

Bacon’s bottom line. Here’s my reading of the incident: Chase is highlighting a legitimate issue, but she chose the wrong way to do it.

Unlike the owner of the Red Hen restaurant in Lexington who famously refused to serve Sara Huckabee Sanders, then-press secretary to Donald Trump, the Pelleritos displayed no obvious political animus. They certainly aren’t activists. There is no record in the Virginia Public Access Project donor database of them having made a campaign contributions to any Virginia politician. Chase didn’t accuse them of political bias, and Pellerito expressed none in her Facebook post. As Pellerito said, she and her husband are just doing their best to keep their restaurant open and obey the law.

Had Chase played her cards differently, she could have used the Pelleritos as an illustration of the very problem she is fighting — how Northam’s policies have dragooned restaurant owners and their employees into enforcing an ambiguous emergency order.

How are employees supposed to know that people refusing to wear masks have a medical justification? If people say they have a medical condition, must employees take their word for it, or can they demand proof? Must patrons carry a doctor’s letter with them, as Chase does? How is anyone to know if the letter is legitimate? Letters can be easily forged. No two circumstances are ever the same, so endless questions arise.

Had Chase chosen to be sympathetic rather than confrontational, she might have generated a very different story. She could have portrayed the Pelleritos, a small-business family with four children including new-born twins, as victims of Northam’s policies, suffering needless complications as they try to follow the rules and stay in business. Instead, Chase made her own behavior the story. What an opportunity lost.


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Comments

148 responses to “Worthy Cause, Wrong Approach”

  1. Steve Haner Avatar
    Steve Haner

    Stupid cause, crass behavior. Given previous history (yelling at a Capitol Police officer over a parking space?), it won’t end here. Wear the damn mask. It is easy. It is courtesy.

    1. Anonymous Avatar
      Anonymous

      Read the dang article.

      “… she explained that she had an underlying health condition that did not allow her to wear one. Upon providing a letter from her doctor, she was provided service but “not without being harassed and belittled in front of other store patrons.””

      1. Exactly. Handicapped folks get that all the time, we pay taxes and those of us who can, work to pay them. Why should others be provided our medical info? Is any one on here providing their latest bloodwork, doctors’ notes?

  2. Ben Slone Avatar
    Ben Slone

    EO 63, Section D., paragraph 6 and the following numbered paragraph state:

    “Persons with health conditions that prohibit wearing a face covering. Nothing in this Order shall require the use of a face covering by any person for whom doing so would be contrary to his or her health or safety because of a medical condition.

    Any person who declines to wear a face covering because of a medical condition shall not be required to produce or carry medical documentation verifying the stated condition nor shall the person be required to identify the precise underlying medical condition.”

    Therefore I’ll propose:

    “How are employees supposed to know that people refusing to wear masks have a medical justification? If people say they have a medical condition, must employees take their word for it, or can they demand proof? Must patrons carry a doctor’s letter with them, as Chase does? How is anyone to know if the letter is legitimate? Letters can be easily forged. No two circumstances are ever the same, so endless questions arise.”

    Are invalid arguments.

    However, if an owner of a business states and its employees ask that you must have a mask on as part of the conditions for service, a customer must do so – or leave. Isn’t that basic property rights?

    1. Good points. I would say, though, that neither Chase nor Pellerito made the point in their Facebook posts that Northam’s order specifically notes that Virginians are not required to produce documentation. And it is interesting that Chase, who should be conversant with the law, went ahead and produced documentation anyway.

      I would agree with you that restaurants should be free to establish their own policies — and that customers should be free to frequent those establishments whose policies they are uncomfortable with. But that’s not an option right now. And there are plenty of people who would argue that public health considerations override property-rights considerations.

      1. djrippert Avatar
        djrippert

        Are you serious? Do you think that restaurants can decide that wheelchair ramps are too costly or unsightly and simply refuse access to people with disabilities? Il Duce Northam’s order specifically exempts people with medical issues from having to wear masks. Those are Americans with disabilities. What legal liability is taken by a business owner who denies service to a patron legally exercising their right to not wear a mask based on a self-proclaimed medical issue?

        Northam suspends freedom of religion, freedom of assembly and the taking of private property by the state for public use without compensation. None of this bothers Il Duce. But he won’t mandate masks because of some alignment with the Americans with Disabilities Act philosophy and he won’t hold nursing homes accountable for the death and destruction they cause because of HIPAA. Are you kidding me?

        The plantation elite who infest central and southern Virginia can say what they want but Maryland is better run than Virginia. Masks are required. Period. If you want to sue then you’ll have to sue the state not the small businesses owners enforcing the mandate. Nursing home COVID-19 data is published in detail nursing home by nursing home. If that’s a violation of HIPAA then the nursing homes can sue the state. But the people in the nursing homes and their families have the data to make good decisions.

        The problem with tyranny is that you often get a mind numbingly incompetent tyrant like Ralph Northam.

      2. Ben Slone Avatar
        Ben Slone

        @James A. Bacon

        Yes, addressing the Facebook posts and other actions is another thing – which I won’t trek too far there. I would have approached the event in a different manner. I feel for the small businesses and the pressure they’re under to enforce an edict to keep their license. I would politely say I understand your policy, say thanks, leave, and maybe order for delivery.

        I understand the public health argument – but then that will throw me into the HVAC, etc. and the mask discussion. Not enough time…

      3. Public health considerations? So the handicapped can have their handicaps catch? Wow.
        What if the person doesnt’ have a temperature? Should they be refused then? If they had a test and passed it?
        So a healthy person with a handicap is ok to discriminate against is what you are saying?

    2. No, because they could do the same for not providing handicapped bathrooms, handicapped access to their building, or refuse to hire the handicapped.

  3. Appreciate the aggression Steve (TIC), because that’s exactly the kind of discrimination we get ALL the time. By law we do NOT have to provide you with any doctor letter or anything else. None of your business. Return the favor without the hostility and cursing or expect to get it in return.
    I’ve had some nasty abled folks who think that physical aggression because people are not physically as able as someone else is appropriate. Maybe someone can explain why verbal harrassment is fine also?
    I can’t do anything about folks that violate/cross the line on the handicapped laws/exemptions. I don’t see any one bothering to help champion doing major checks into handicapped parking that is abused either. I’ve tried to get that fixed locally and heaven forbid the handicapped be helped out, even if they are doing the volunteering!
    In more than 8-9 years, only ONCE have I seen a valid violation of a handicapped parking space by non handicappers. There were 3 college guys who parked at a gym and were helping their wheelchair buddy set up his wheelchair and get him into it. His transportation wasn’t available, so they were trying to help him out by taking him there.
    Steve how would you feel if someone cursed at you for something like you are doing to the millions of handicapped, who btw, are mostly in the senior group you are? Do you think that does anything to make those who dont’ wear them (whether handicapped or not) change their position by you approaching the situation that way?
    Once the person is asked, and they indicate an issue, drop it. If the health dept. comes by tell them this is what I was told. By law, no different than a service animal vs. an ‘support’ dog. You are allowed to ask 2 questions and you’ll find out very quickly who truly has an animal that is ‘allowed’ or not.

    1. Steve Haner Avatar
      Steve Haner

      I don’t park in those spaces and for years my mother could, so not sure how that it is relevant. IMHO Senator Chase is loving this, had the letter in her pocketbook for just such an opportunity, and is relishing her hero status to a small segment of the population — while irritating the vast majority she will need to actually win an election. She’s just a rude person. I doubt very much she has an underlying condition that would create a problem if she wore a mask while sitting at a restaurant table. But then I also feel that way when somebody brings their comfort ocelot into the airport….

      I overuse the phrase “pick the hill you want to die on” but in this case the anti-mask fanatics have picked a hill where people actually do die. (Can’t believe I’m playing Nancy Naive in this argument.) Yes, mandates tend to create adverse reactions. So my argument is, the masks are easy and wearing one is simple courtesy. If the sign on the door says please wear one, I’m happy to do so. If there is a crowd nearby talking and laughing without masks, I’ll take my trade elsewhere.

      Serious question: Somebody please list some legit medical conditions (medical, not mental) that would create an issue if somebody wore one of these non-medical face coverings while walking into a restaurant or store. Not an N95, those do interfere with breathing, but one of the paper or cloth things. Exercise, that I get, but sitting quietly? Educate me.

      1. Anonymous Avatar
        Anonymous

        I have no love lost for Chase (rude is putting it very, very mildly), but I’m lost, Steve. Since when is it anyone’s job to prove to you (“educate me”?) that a medical condition (for which Chase had a letter from her doctor) is legitimate?

        Where do you find a basis for a remark like “I doubt very much she has an underlying condition that would create a problem if she wore a mask while sitting at a restaurant table.” Do you know more about her health than her doctor?

        There’s no question she was extremely rude and her activity was counterproductive at best. She should have explained that she couldn’t wear a mask, and if the server insisted, she should have politely left. She could have made her (correct) point that the Governor’s rules don’t work without making enemies out of some innocent and confused business owners. We don’t need to second-guess her doctor to criticize her, and we don’t have any reason to.

      2. Its relevant because abled body folks abuse the handicapped with an exemption that is to help them fit into society and become members of it. Abuse of a handicapped exemption is known and accepted by folks, wonder why?
        How do you know this about Senator Chase? I’m looking at facts: she claimed the exemption and exercised it. She went past what she was required to do by law and Northam’s EO. So you are saying that those of us who are handicapped should shut up and suck up discrimination and put our personal medical business out there unlike the abled, who dont’ have to? When we complain about it, the abled don’t want to hear it, you aren’t sympathetic, correct?
        If you want to talk about “anti mask fanatics” you are showing your political bias right there, not just the discrimination against us.
        I don’t speculate on handicapped problems. I just need people to help them become productive members of society not treat us less than the riot/looters. I know folks with unseen handicaps and I’ve gone out of my way to try to do what I could to help them. There are many that are quite legitimate.

      3. The porch greeter at our town hall in Maine Town wears a clear plastic shield mounted on an eyeglass frame. She explained it was because she suffers from claustrophobia. She assured us that the shield was equivalent to a mask in the protection it offers others.

        As to Chase’s disability, I’ve seen multiple photos today with her happily sporting a mask alongside her hairdresser. The picture has been posted by commentators on Katharine Nye Pellerito’s Facebook post. I will try to copy it into a reply here.

        1. Ms. Pellerito’s friends or followers will f bomb, use other profanity, and derogatory remarks on the handicapped (they don’t like Senator Chase also) any one who tries to explain how it is possible to fall afoul of the ADA laws. When someone is polite, and that’s the left/progressive response given, it doesn’t make her or the cause good.

      4. Severe asthma comes to mind and those conditions like PTSD are very real, and very medical and debilitating.

        Severe asthma is defined as frequent attacks, ER visits and so forth, even the cloth covering can cause them to arrest.

        Plus, what most people don’t do with their masks is clean them. Say hello to legionnaires disease with can be incorrectly diagnosed as COVID.

        Do I believe we should wear masks (properly, half if not more do not), yes. Do I believe it should be mandated, that’s a very resounding, NO!

  4. LarrytheG Avatar
    LarrytheG

    The anti-mask folks are using the medical thing as a proxy to assert their “right” to not wear a mask.

    This is why businesses like Walmart and many others had to step in and do their own rules for entry.

    And this is why many non-chain restaurants will have to do the same thing to deal with people who really don’t give a rip about why the masks are important.

    This is also why folks like Amanda Chase are unfit to govern. She’s making a statement – folks should listen. You have the right to act like a total ass – like a child – but if folks decide you’re not fit to govern – then so be it.

    I will admit we got a guy as POTUS who has those issues and quite a few who support it so maybe Chase is on to something..

    😉

    1. djrippert Avatar
      djrippert

      The difference is that in Virginia those who feel aggrieved by having to wear a mask will sue the small business owner. In Maryland, they will have to sue the state. It seems to me that we’re at a time when a lot of rights are being suspended in the interests of society’s health. Any actions taken by the state in that regard should be legally defended by the state. Il Duce Northam either imposes a mask mandate or he doesn’t. Right now he does not have a mask mandate. He has a mask suggestion.

      1. DJR did you know that it wasn’t until THIS YEAR, 2020, that a state employee could sue for handicapped discrimination in court? Virginia stated sovereign immunity against their own employees’ when they discriminated against them. I’ve seen the case that brought it to the attention of folks, and yes Virginia used it to dismiss the person.

        Only the handicapped employees.

      2. It’s not a suggestion, Gov. Northam has ruled by fiat that they should be warn with exceptions. However, he’s shifted the legal onus to enforce onto business owners, else you’ll loose whatever license you require to operate. Which is all fine and dandy when they are big corps with deep pockets. When they are small mom and pop shops not so much.

  5. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    Here is a related discussion from Jonathan Turley, the well-known legal scholar:

    https://jonathanturley.org/2020/08/11/does-mandatory-mask-enforcement-violate-the-american-disability-act/

    1. Problem is, if the person has been temp tested, COVID tested, and negative, but is still handicapped, a business is going on the incorrect assumption that they are ‘guilty’ rather than innocent, and wants to bar. I’ve seen them not to want make any accommodations UNLESS the handicapped person pays for it. Since when has that been legal? So we have to pay for handicapped tables, bathrooms, sidewalk accommodations also?
      This is how it gets because that ‘undue hardship’ clause has been criticized for years as to how discrimination stays with us by businesses. It was put in for Mom/Pop stores who don’t have $20K to retro fit a building, not to say we wont’ give you food.
      Btw, the VDH, and Dr. Nancy Welch, head of the Chesapeake Health Dept. does NOT have a problem with letting the handicapped starve to death if a grocery store won’t allow you in without a mask. I have an email where I indicate just that to them.

      First thing, get rid of the seniors, then the handicapped. Hitler and the SS would have been proud, along with the whole USA eugenics movement that had a place in Va. with Carrie Buck decades ago.

  6. LarrytheG Avatar
    LarrytheG

    Seems like Walmart goes out of it’s way to accommodate those with health conditions. They not only provide the handicapped parking, but mobility carts and pickup and delivery.

    What we have is people who want to assert their “rights” and do so on the backs on the truly handicapped.. no scruples what-so-ever. Whatever it takes to force their wishes on others.

    Most people are reasonable and willing to wear the masks even if they don’t totally agree. They go along to get along. Something we all have to do from time to time in the real world.

    BUt there are some who don’t go that way and everyone else has to put up with them like we do with children who are brats.

  7. VDOTyranny Avatar
    VDOTyranny

    Chase did a disservice to small businesses and VN is spot on. There is no “proof” of disability required.

    The medical loophole in EO63 is real, regardless of ADA. However, no business, especially small business, wants to test-out ADA laws either. Virginia Retail Businesses are in a no-win situation, because of a feckless governor.

    EO63 was written by spinless politicians to avoid being blamed for what they knew was a politically contentious issue. Instead, they passed the buck to businesses who are now caught in a tug-o-war between pro-masker and anti-masker extremists.

    The extremists are misinformed (perhaps intentionally) about businesses responsibility under the law, and the pro-mask people are more than happy rat-out businesses they feel aren’t 100% enforcing the mandate the pro-masker doesn’t fully understand while employers and employees are in a game of Russian Roulette with anti-mask patrons.

    Either way, the business and its employees are made-out to be the bad guys because gov feckless didn’t want to take the political heat, and much of our VOTING citizenry is misinformed about the complexities of the issue, or unwilling to accept what the EO actually a states.

    1. and you are spot on VDOTyranny. Whoever writes the EO’s, obviously hasn’t a clue of how to deal with such issues, and it should have been modified and fixed when the problems started. The fact they did not fix it, is pretty much prima facie discrimination.

      The ‘guilty until proven innocent’ is creeping in more and more and more in law.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        If this were a problem ONLY in Virginia – then we could argue about how to do it better or right.

        But this problem is going on across the country – and it’s the same problem…

        Not about Virginia… It’s about the folks who want to make it an issue.

    2. djrippert Avatar
      djrippert

      “Virginia Retail Businesses are in a no-win situation, because of a feckless governor.”

      A feckless governor with dictatorial power.

  8. LarrytheG Avatar
    LarrytheG

    This is really simple. Wear the Damn mask unless you really want to cause trouble.

    Some people are apparently too childish to do it. Others, like Chase actually do want to cause trouble.

    We’re seeing just how ugly some folks can be…

    1. So African Americans should just shut up and put up with discrimination?

      Interesting how the leftist/progressive on here is discriminatory against the handicap, but everyone else, gets a free pass.

      Typical. That’s why the most discrimination I’ve seen is from progressives, the college age kids.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        We’re not talking about systemic racism here with mask rules.

        We’re talking about something relatively simple to do – and
        some folks prefer instead to cause trouble.

        And no.. most folks when treated civilly do not get worse.. unless the person involved is already spoiling for a fight and shows it.

        You can tell when you’re dealing with them….some folks want to make it work and some folks want it to go wrong.

        1. Who are YOU to decide that?!

          Who are YOU to decide what I have gone thru (and others) to get attention to the fact that the handicapped are left next to the fire alarms at full blast on the top floor of multiple story GOVT buildings to wait until the fire alarm is over, hundreds in the building have been evacuated, while NO ONE checks on you? There’s NO plan to get you out?

          Who are YOU to decide how long and how nice I’ve been and it got me nowhere? Some are, but many are NOT.

          The reason why some of us are more ‘steadfast’ is because of the treatment YOU are giving us, Mr. Progressive.

          1. Larry people do that with unseen handicaps and hurt people I know that way. They give the handicapped a bad rep. This is no different. I can’t help that, but I can fight against the associated discrimination.

            For a country that is on the mantra of don’t judge, its amazing how it changes depending on …

          2. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            V N – I don’t think that most of the folks who are making the masks an issue has anything to do with handicapped.

            They are hiding behind it.

            I do not doubt for a minute that the REAL handicapped have had a long and difficult fight to get fair and equal access and I just point out to you that it did take the government to make some of it happen and without the govt a lot of it probably would not have.

            Also – some folks want around with a chip on their shoulder – just waiting for it to fall off – and others work to find middle ground… it all depends on what one is really trying to achieve.

          3. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            V N – I understand where you are coming from. I DO!

            but mixing these two issue together is not the way to do it because the rapid anti-maskers could give a rats behind about he handicapped…

  9. VDOTyranny Avatar
    VDOTyranny

    > This is really simple. Wear the Damn mask unless you really want to cause trouble.

    Attention All Businesses! Replace your “By Order of the Governor” signs to “By Commandment of Larry.” He says its that simple.

    1. LarrytheG Avatar
      LarrytheG

      nope. it’s really simple. Wear the damn mask – it’s common sense and it a way to get along and deal with other issues.

      we have a bunch of spoiled brats masquerading as adults.

      1. VDOTyranny Avatar
        VDOTyranny

        Larry, the keyboard warrior, please contemplate the irony of your statements.

        > wear the mask… it’s common sense
        > we have a bunch of spoiled brats masquerading as adults

        1. LarrytheG Avatar
          LarrytheG

          I see these folks all day long… at stop lights, in lines that que up and they can’t abide it… etc.. no irony here.. we know who you are.

          you must don’t play well with others.. unless it’s all on your terms.

          we know you. We put up with you every day.

          Some folks help do what it takes to make things work

          you see them at 4-way stops and rounda-bouts… everyone is doing their thing and here comes big-butt…

        2. What is interesting to see is put different marginalized groups in Larry’s comments, and its the same attitude.

          No one addressed the fact that black men do feel scared of wearing a mask and I get the reason why. They have a point.

    2. and after seeing larry’s response, I know we can dismiss all his claims in the future. Just shut up, get along. Remember this Larry. It works for everyone, equality is the name of the game right?

      1. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        V N – I think mixing the issue of handicapped with mask wearing does no good for anyone and just amps up the hate and discontent.

        Just for your info – I have strongly support the government’s efforts to bring justice and equality to people who are handicapped and it’s totally true they have been wrongly treated for a long, long time.

        Just admit – that it did take the govt to do it – it would have never happened without the govt and the anti-maskers would have been some of the biggest “don’t care” types… because it’s all about them and they really don’t give a rip about others.

        1. VDOTyranny Avatar
          VDOTyranny

          > because it’s all about them and they really don’t give a rip about others

          What are YOU going to do about it?

          1. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            Like Steve mentioned. You look around and you recognize if there are idiots in proximity and if so – put some distance.

        2. Mixing it? By no choice of our own, it is there. We’re getting the brunt of it.

          My problem is not anti maskers. I dont’ care what they do. I care about the discrimination the handicapped get as a result of peoples’ beliefs.

          Its very simple: if people don’t care for antimaskers, just keep moving the other direction. I pass by folks whether masked or not, do my thing and go. I don’t report or stare or make comments.

          Sort of like someone is wearing a burqa, I don’t stare or be nasty. I let them do their thing.

          1. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            re: ” My problem is not anti maskers. I don’t care what they do. I care about the discrimination the handicapped get as a result of peoples’ beliefs.”

            so this is a thread about Amanda Chase not wearing a mask…

            right?

            You are correct. There is a lot of ignorance and discrimination of handicapped people in this world. And I did take note when the govt passed laws to deal with some of it and how Conservatives fought tooth and nail against “forcing” businesses to accommodate them.

            Is your argument that they’ve not done enough? What does this have to do with anti-maksers and Amanda Chase’s idiocy?

          2. made because of an apparently legitimate disability issue, approved by a doctor and made within the bounds of the EO.

  10. Steve Haner Avatar
    Steve Haner

    Fascinating additions to the lengthening and bitter string….but still no examples of actual medical conditions that would mean wearing a mask while walking into a restaurant would cause harm…..what comes to my mind (COPD or asthma) would mean you more clearly should be taking precautions.

    I have actually eaten inside a restaurant twice since March, in both cases the room being all but empty. This is why I’m still basically staying away. Too many fools….

    1. You were told no one owes you an explanation.
      So now we’re fools? SMH. For a conservative leaning person, it is interesting to see that life, liberty and the persuit of happiness doesn’t extend to what you think fits that definition.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        we have BOORS – people who really don’t care what impacts others – they will do whatever they wish and it’s too bad…

        They’re all over the place…normally but the mask issue has brought them their 15 minutes.

        Like Steve – when I encounter these fools – I put distance between us. Ran into one at the hospital the other day – he was warned to put on a mask and then had to be threatened with security being called.. and he finally did it. (He had the mask) Everyone else in the room was wearing masks and looking on…

        these are the kinds of folks that everyone else has to put up with. It’s all about them… you see this behavior in some badly behaved 5-year olds – and yes their parents are that way…bringing their kids up that way.

        1. Rioters/looters did that, saying businesses had insurance, when they didn’t. Instead they destroyed successful small black businesses.
          Part of living in a free society is you are stuck taking risks. Its that way for driving too. People overeat and over drink, should we force them to stop that also? It hurts other folks too.

      1. Try talking to doctors who work with the handicapped or the handicapped themselves (lots of various ones). Lots better than a CNBC reporter.

      2. Steve Haner Avatar
        Steve Haner

        Thanks. Fairly thin….as noted, with COPD or asthma you are the person who most needs fear COVID…

    2. VDOTyranny Avatar
      VDOTyranny

      No doubt people are taking advantage of the loophole. But, under the EO, no proof is required.

      When dealing with patrons, about all a business can legally do is ask “do you have a disability?” and hope the person you’re asking isn’t unhinged.

      The answer to your question is, “it doesn’t matter.” If you want it to matter, the advocate for the laws to be changed.

      1. If you are visually handicapped, most back off pretty quickly or don’t bother. Some folks will actually help you, which I appreciate and tell folks so. Its my folks who don’t “look” handicapped that have the heart issues that I worry over. They cope as best as they can. Doesn’t make their lives easier.

        To be honest, I tell those who are willing to pull the mask down so I can hear/understand, thank you also. I only have a couple that won’t. You see deafness in the previous 2 generations isn’t always visible on the 3rd, and there’s not a “card” for it.

  11. Steve Haner Avatar
    Steve Haner

    Stupid cause, crass behavior. Given previous history (yelling at a Capitol Police officer over a parking space?), it won’t end here. Wear the damn mask. It is easy. It is courtesy.

    1. Anonymous Avatar
      Anonymous

      Read the dang article.

      “… she explained that she had an underlying health condition that did not allow her to wear one. Upon providing a letter from her doctor, she was provided service but “not without being harassed and belittled in front of other store patrons.””

      1. Exactly. Handicapped folks get that all the time, we pay taxes and those of us who can, work to pay them. Why should others be provided our medical info? Is any one on here providing their latest bloodwork, doctors’ notes?

  12. Ben Slone Avatar
    Ben Slone

    EO 63, Section D., paragraph 6 and the following numbered paragraph state:

    “Persons with health conditions that prohibit wearing a face covering. Nothing in this Order shall require the use of a face covering by any person for whom doing so would be contrary to his or her health or safety because of a medical condition.

    Any person who declines to wear a face covering because of a medical condition shall not be required to produce or carry medical documentation verifying the stated condition nor shall the person be required to identify the precise underlying medical condition.”

    Therefore I’ll propose:

    “How are employees supposed to know that people refusing to wear masks have a medical justification? If people say they have a medical condition, must employees take their word for it, or can they demand proof? Must patrons carry a doctor’s letter with them, as Chase does? How is anyone to know if the letter is legitimate? Letters can be easily forged. No two circumstances are ever the same, so endless questions arise.”

    Are invalid arguments.

    However, if an owner of a business states and its employees ask that you must have a mask on as part of the conditions for service, a customer must do so – or leave. Isn’t that basic property rights?

    1. Good points. I would say, though, that neither Chase nor Pellerito made the point in their Facebook posts that Northam’s order specifically notes that Virginians are not required to produce documentation. And it is interesting that Chase, who should be conversant with the law, went ahead and produced documentation anyway.

      I would agree with you that restaurants should be free to establish their own policies — and that customers should be free to frequent those establishments whose policies they are uncomfortable with. But that’s not an option right now. And there are plenty of people who would argue that public health considerations override property-rights considerations.

      1. djrippert Avatar
        djrippert

        Are you serious? Do you think that restaurants can decide that wheelchair ramps are too costly or unsightly and simply refuse access to people with disabilities? Il Duce Northam’s order specifically exempts people with medical issues from having to wear masks. Those are Americans with disabilities. What legal liability is taken by a business owner who denies service to a patron legally exercising their right to not wear a mask based on a self-proclaimed medical issue?

        Northam suspends freedom of religion, freedom of assembly and the taking of private property by the state for public use without compensation. None of this bothers Il Duce. But he won’t mandate masks because of some alignment with the Americans with Disabilities Act philosophy and he won’t hold nursing homes accountable for the death and destruction they cause because of HIPAA. Are you kidding me?

        The plantation elite who infest central and southern Virginia can say what they want but Maryland is better run than Virginia. Masks are required. Period. If you want to sue then you’ll have to sue the state not the small businesses owners enforcing the mandate. Nursing home COVID-19 data is published in detail nursing home by nursing home. If that’s a violation of HIPAA then the nursing homes can sue the state. But the people in the nursing homes and their families have the data to make good decisions.

        The problem with tyranny is that you often get a mind numbingly incompetent tyrant like Ralph Northam.

      2. Ben Slone Avatar
        Ben Slone

        @James A. Bacon

        Yes, addressing the Facebook posts and other actions is another thing – which I won’t trek too far there. I would have approached the event in a different manner. I feel for the small businesses and the pressure they’re under to enforce an edict to keep their license. I would politely say I understand your policy, say thanks, leave, and maybe order for delivery.

        I understand the public health argument – but then that will throw me into the HVAC, etc. and the mask discussion. Not enough time…

        1. Explain to me WHY the handicapped should be OK with being discriminated, harrassed, and not have the chance to stick up for themselves and get service?

          1. Vic, There’s a civil way to deal with unpleasant encounters and an uncivil way. I prefer the civil way.

          2. I have found that being civil to folks brings out the worst in them. That means several folks towering over you to shut the little handicapped person up.
            No matter how civil one is, once you start saying handicapped shouldn’t be able to access food, we have to pay more because we can’t go in stores, the line is crossed. It wasn’t my choice to be that way.
            I had an issue where I had 2 employees more interested in my handicap than getting me the product I needed. I let the mgmt know and asked why my green was different than someone elses’.
            Lots of times, being polite doesn’t get you anywhere. I can tell you that from lots of experience, the biggest violators being state and local institutions (local meaning a city who refuses handicapped seating at council meetings).

      3. Public health considerations? So the handicapped can have their handicaps catch? Wow.
        What if the person doesnt’ have a temperature? Should they be refused then? If they had a test and passed it?
        So a healthy person with a handicap is ok to discriminate against is what you are saying?

    2. No, because they could do the same for not providing handicapped bathrooms, handicapped access to their building, or refuse to hire the handicapped.

  13. Appreciate the aggression Steve (TIC), because that’s exactly the kind of discrimination we get ALL the time. By law we do NOT have to provide you with any doctor letter or anything else. None of your business. Return the favor without the hostility and cursing or expect to get it in return.
    I’ve had some nasty abled folks who think that physical aggression because people are not physically as able as someone else is appropriate. Maybe someone can explain why verbal harrassment is fine also?
    I can’t do anything about folks that violate/cross the line on the handicapped laws/exemptions. I don’t see any one bothering to help champion doing major checks into handicapped parking that is abused either. I’ve tried to get that fixed locally and heaven forbid the handicapped be helped out, even if they are doing the volunteering!
    In more than 8-9 years, only ONCE have I seen a valid violation of a handicapped parking space by non handicappers. There were 3 college guys who parked at a gym and were helping their wheelchair buddy set up his wheelchair and get him into it. His transportation wasn’t available, so they were trying to help him out by taking him there.
    Steve how would you feel if someone cursed at you for something like you are doing to the millions of handicapped, who btw, are mostly in the senior group you are? Do you think that does anything to make those who dont’ wear them (whether handicapped or not) change their position by you approaching the situation that way?
    Once the person is asked, and they indicate an issue, drop it. If the health dept. comes by tell them this is what I was told. By law, no different than a service animal vs. an ‘support’ dog. You are allowed to ask 2 questions and you’ll find out very quickly who truly has an animal that is ‘allowed’ or not.

    1. Steve Haner Avatar
      Steve Haner

      I don’t park in those spaces and for years my mother could, so not sure how that it is relevant. IMHO Senator Chase is loving this, had the letter in her pocketbook for just such an opportunity, and is relishing her hero status to a small segment of the population — while irritating the vast majority she will need to actually win an election. She’s just a rude person. I doubt very much she has an underlying condition that would create a problem if she wore a mask while sitting at a restaurant table. But then I also feel that way when somebody brings their comfort ocelot into the airport….

      I overuse the phrase “pick the hill you want to die on” but in this case the anti-mask fanatics have picked a hill where people actually do die. (Can’t believe I’m playing Nancy Naive in this argument.) Yes, mandates tend to create adverse reactions. So my argument is, the masks are easy and wearing one is simple courtesy. If the sign on the door says please wear one, I’m happy to do so. If there is a crowd nearby talking and laughing without masks, I’ll take my trade elsewhere.

      Serious question: Somebody please list some legit medical conditions (medical, not mental) that would create an issue if somebody wore one of these non-medical face coverings while walking into a restaurant or store. Not an N95, those do interfere with breathing, but one of the paper or cloth things. Exercise, that I get, but sitting quietly? Educate me.

      1. Anonymous Avatar
        Anonymous

        I have no love lost for Chase (rude is putting it very, very mildly), but I’m lost, Steve. Since when is it anyone’s job to prove to you (“educate me”?) that a medical condition (for which Chase had a letter from her doctor) is legitimate?

        Where do you find a basis for a remark like “I doubt very much she has an underlying condition that would create a problem if she wore a mask while sitting at a restaurant table.” Do you know more about her health than her doctor?

        There’s no question she was extremely rude and her activity was counterproductive at best. She should have explained that she couldn’t wear a mask, and if the server insisted, she should have politely left. She could have made her (correct) point that the Governor’s rules don’t work without making enemies out of some innocent and confused business owners. We don’t need to second-guess her doctor to criticize her, and we don’t have any reason to.

        1. Why should we leave? We have a right granted by federals and Northams’ EO’s. It isn’t the fault of the handicapped to argue the point: it is the fault of business owners to READ and FOLLOW ALL the EO, not just the ones’ they want to.

          1. djrippert Avatar
            djrippert

            I have a right to attend Mass but that right was suspended by Il Duce Northam. My family has a right to gather for a funeral for a relative but that right was suspended by Il Duce Northam. Landlords have a right to due process but that right was suspended by Il Duce Northam. Why is your right to not wear a mask any different? And, at the risk of being very rude … if somebody has a respiratory condition that prevents the wearing of a cotton mask should they be out in a crowd during a pandemic which particularly affects people with respiratory conditions?

          2. DJRippert I am totally behind your right to a mass (California’s churches), a funeral (especially after DC’s exemption for the upper level workers, Congressman Lewis’ funeral), and I’ve already sent the info out to landlords I know to fight Northam.
            I am into the issue for 1) handicapped rights and 2) freedom. We give folks the right to drive, even though they may hurt us later.
            Actually, obesity, hypertension, diabetes, kidney issues, heart issues, were the top 5 I’ve seen for COVID complications/worse scenarios. Lung issues are less because people do have ways of compensating. Btw, missing part of your ear or an infected ear, definitely seems to be missed here …

            are folks acquainted with various handicaps? I love my workplace with all various planet Earth groups in it. This is one reason why.

            I had that issue with an admin who thought we couldnt’ handle it. I showed up prepared, because I know how to compensate (believe it or not, we handicapped are not stupid and can learn, adapt and overcome a lot), and that made all the impact. Didn’t have to say a word. They figured it out.

      2. Its relevant because abled body folks abuse the handicapped with an exemption that is to help them fit into society and become members of it. Abuse of a handicapped exemption is known and accepted by folks, wonder why?
        How do you know this about Senator Chase? I’m looking at facts: she claimed the exemption and exercised it. She went past what she was required to do by law and Northam’s EO. So you are saying that those of us who are handicapped should shut up and suck up discrimination and put our personal medical business out there unlike the abled, who dont’ have to? When we complain about it, the abled don’t want to hear it, you aren’t sympathetic, correct?
        If you want to talk about “anti mask fanatics” you are showing your political bias right there, not just the discrimination against us.
        I don’t speculate on handicapped problems. I just need people to help them become productive members of society not treat us less than the riot/looters. I know folks with unseen handicaps and I’ve gone out of my way to try to do what I could to help them. There are many that are quite legitimate.

      3. The porch greeter at our town hall in Maine Town wears a clear plastic shield mounted on an eyeglass frame. She explained it was because she suffers from claustrophobia. She assured us that the shield was equivalent to a mask in the protection it offers others.

        As to Chase’s disability, I’ve seen multiple photos today with her happily sporting a mask alongside her hairdresser. The picture has been posted by commentators on Katharine Nye Pellerito’s Facebook post. I will try to copy it into a reply here.

        1. Ms. Pellerito’s friends or followers will f bomb, use other profanity, and derogatory remarks on the handicapped (they don’t like Senator Chase also) any one who tries to explain how it is possible to fall afoul of the ADA laws. When someone is polite, and that’s the left/progressive response given, it doesn’t make her or the cause good.

      4. Severe asthma comes to mind and those conditions like PTSD are very real, and very medical and debilitating.

        Severe asthma is defined as frequent attacks, ER visits and so forth, even the cloth covering can cause them to arrest.

        Plus, what most people don’t do with their masks is clean them. Say hello to legionnaires disease with can be incorrectly diagnosed as COVID.

        Do I believe we should wear masks (properly, half if not more do not), yes. Do I believe it should be mandated, that’s a very resounding, NO!

  14. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
    James Wyatt Whitehead V

    I think the Red Hen is Lexington if I remember that right. I spoke with a former student who was a Denver Riggleman volunteer this past spring. Looks like he is thinking hard about a run for governor.

    1. Steve Haner Avatar
      Steve Haner

      Ah, yes, the Red Hen incident — another example that basically just boiled down to people being rude and crass, then taking a bow when they should have been ashamed of themselves.

      Anon — it’s just a question. I have found the masks to be non-intrusive, and I’m legitimately curious what medical condition it might exacerbate. I don’t make Chase the object of study, but she is not one of the legislators who shows obvious signs of medical stress or disability when maneuvering around the GAB. But I’m asking in general.

      1. So the folks who have legitimate handicaps that are not ‘obvious’ to folks, are worthless? I stuck up for one, actually when they told me, I said what can I do to help, don’t back down, we need to make sure you are a part of society. That, btw, includes a lot of our Americans who fought because the govt. told them to, in Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, etc.

      2. Anonymous Avatar
        Anonymous

        Fair enough, Steve. I mistakenly thought you were questioning the specific case.

    2. Yes, you’re absolutely right. I was thinking Lexington even as I was typing Harrisonburg. Error corrected.

  15. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
    James Wyatt Whitehead V

    I think the Red Hen is Lexington if I remember that right. I spoke with a former student who was a Denver Riggleman volunteer this past spring. Looks like he is thinking hard about a run for governor.

    1. Steve Haner Avatar
      Steve Haner

      Ah, yes, the Red Hen incident — another example that basically just boiled down to people being rude and crass, then taking a bow when they should have been ashamed of themselves.

      Anon — it’s just a question. I have found the masks to be non-intrusive, and I’m legitimately curious what medical condition it might exacerbate. I don’t make Chase the object of study, but she is not one of the legislators who shows obvious signs of medical stress or disability when maneuvering around the GAB. But I’m asking in general.

      1. So the folks who have legitimate handicaps that are not ‘obvious’ to folks, are worthless? I stuck up for one, actually when they told me, I said what can I do to help, don’t back down, we need to make sure you are a part of society. That, btw, includes a lot of our Americans who fought because the govt. told them to, in Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, etc.

      2. Anonymous Avatar
        Anonymous

        Fair enough, Steve. I mistakenly thought you were questioning the specific case.

    2. Yes, you’re absolutely right. I was thinking Lexington even as I was typing Harrisonburg. Error corrected.

  16. LarrytheG Avatar
    LarrytheG

    The anti-mask folks are using the medical thing as a proxy to assert their “right” to not wear a mask.

    This is why businesses like Walmart and many others had to step in and do their own rules for entry.

    And this is why many non-chain restaurants will have to do the same thing to deal with people who really don’t give a rip about why the masks are important.

    This is also why folks like Amanda Chase are unfit to govern. She’s making a statement – folks should listen. You have the right to act like a total ass – like a child – but if folks decide you’re not fit to govern – then so be it.

    I will admit we got a guy as POTUS who has those issues and quite a few who support it so maybe Chase is on to something..

    😉

    1. djrippert Avatar
      djrippert

      The difference is that in Virginia those who feel aggrieved by having to wear a mask will sue the small business owner. In Maryland, they will have to sue the state. It seems to me that we’re at a time when a lot of rights are being suspended in the interests of society’s health. Any actions taken by the state in that regard should be legally defended by the state. Il Duce Northam either imposes a mask mandate or he doesn’t. Right now he does not have a mask mandate. He has a mask suggestion.

      1. DJR did you know that it wasn’t until THIS YEAR, 2020, that a state employee could sue for handicapped discrimination in court? Virginia stated sovereign immunity against their own employees’ when they discriminated against them. I’ve seen the case that brought it to the attention of folks, and yes Virginia used it to dismiss the person.

        Only the handicapped employees.

      2. It’s not a suggestion, Gov. Northam has ruled by fiat that they should be warn with exceptions. However, he’s shifted the legal onus to enforce onto business owners, else you’ll loose whatever license you require to operate. Which is all fine and dandy when they are big corps with deep pockets. When they are small mom and pop shops not so much.

  17. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    Here is a related discussion from Jonathan Turley, the well-known legal scholar:

    https://jonathanturley.org/2020/08/11/does-mandatory-mask-enforcement-violate-the-american-disability-act/

    1. Problem is, if the person has been temp tested, COVID tested, and negative, but is still handicapped, a business is going on the incorrect assumption that they are ‘guilty’ rather than innocent, and wants to bar. I’ve seen them not to want make any accommodations UNLESS the handicapped person pays for it. Since when has that been legal? So we have to pay for handicapped tables, bathrooms, sidewalk accommodations also?
      This is how it gets because that ‘undue hardship’ clause has been criticized for years as to how discrimination stays with us by businesses. It was put in for Mom/Pop stores who don’t have $20K to retro fit a building, not to say we wont’ give you food.
      Btw, the VDH, and Dr. Nancy Welch, head of the Chesapeake Health Dept. does NOT have a problem with letting the handicapped starve to death if a grocery store won’t allow you in without a mask. I have an email where I indicate just that to them.

      First thing, get rid of the seniors, then the handicapped. Hitler and the SS would have been proud, along with the whole USA eugenics movement that had a place in Va. with Carrie Buck decades ago.

  18. LarrytheG Avatar
    LarrytheG

    Seems like Walmart goes out of it’s way to accommodate those with health conditions. They not only provide the handicapped parking, but mobility carts and pickup and delivery.

    What we have is people who want to assert their “rights” and do so on the backs on the truly handicapped.. no scruples what-so-ever. Whatever it takes to force their wishes on others.

    Most people are reasonable and willing to wear the masks even if they don’t totally agree. They go along to get along. Something we all have to do from time to time in the real world.

    BUt there are some who don’t go that way and everyone else has to put up with them like we do with children who are brats.

  19. VDOTyranny Avatar
    VDOTyranny

    Chase did a disservice to small businesses and VN is spot on. There is no “proof” of disability required.

    The medical loophole in EO63 is real, regardless of ADA. However, no business, especially small business, wants to test-out ADA laws either. Virginia Retail Businesses are in a no-win situation, because of a feckless governor.

    EO63 was written by spinless politicians to avoid being blamed for what they knew was a politically contentious issue. Instead, they passed the buck to businesses who are now caught in a tug-o-war between pro-masker and anti-masker extremists.

    The extremists are misinformed (perhaps intentionally) about businesses responsibility under the law, and the pro-mask people are more than happy rat-out businesses they feel aren’t 100% enforcing the mandate the pro-masker doesn’t fully understand while employers and employees are in a game of Russian Roulette with anti-mask patrons.

    Either way, the business and its employees are made-out to be the bad guys because gov feckless didn’t want to take the political heat, and much of our VOTING citizenry is misinformed about the complexities of the issue, or unwilling to accept what the EO actually a states.

    1. and you are spot on VDOTyranny. Whoever writes the EO’s, obviously hasn’t a clue of how to deal with such issues, and it should have been modified and fixed when the problems started. The fact they did not fix it, is pretty much prima facie discrimination.

      The ‘guilty until proven innocent’ is creeping in more and more and more in law.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        If this were a problem ONLY in Virginia – then we could argue about how to do it better or right.

        But this problem is going on across the country – and it’s the same problem…

        Not about Virginia… It’s about the folks who want to make it an issue.

    2. djrippert Avatar
      djrippert

      “Virginia Retail Businesses are in a no-win situation, because of a feckless governor.”

      A feckless governor with dictatorial power.

  20. LarrytheG Avatar
    LarrytheG

    This is really simple. Wear the Damn mask unless you really want to cause trouble.

    Some people are apparently too childish to do it. Others, like Chase actually do want to cause trouble.

    We’re seeing just how ugly some folks can be…

    1. So African Americans should just shut up and put up with discrimination?

      Interesting how the leftist/progressive on here is discriminatory against the handicap, but everyone else, gets a free pass.

      Typical. That’s why the most discrimination I’ve seen is from progressives, the college age kids.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        We’re not talking about systemic racism here with mask rules.

        We’re talking about something relatively simple to do – and
        some folks prefer instead to cause trouble.

        And no.. most folks when treated civilly do not get worse.. unless the person involved is already spoiling for a fight and shows it.

        You can tell when you’re dealing with them….some folks want to make it work and some folks want it to go wrong.

        1. Who are YOU to decide that?!

          Who are YOU to decide what I have gone thru (and others) to get attention to the fact that the handicapped are left next to the fire alarms at full blast on the top floor of multiple story GOVT buildings to wait until the fire alarm is over, hundreds in the building have been evacuated, while NO ONE checks on you? There’s NO plan to get you out?

          Who are YOU to decide how long and how nice I’ve been and it got me nowhere? Some are, but many are NOT.

          The reason why some of us are more ‘steadfast’ is because of the treatment YOU are giving us, Mr. Progressive.

          1. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            V N – I don’t think that most of the folks who are making the masks an issue has anything to do with handicapped.

            They are hiding behind it.

            I do not doubt for a minute that the REAL handicapped have had a long and difficult fight to get fair and equal access and I just point out to you that it did take the government to make some of it happen and without the govt a lot of it probably would not have.

            Also – some folks want around with a chip on their shoulder – just waiting for it to fall off – and others work to find middle ground… it all depends on what one is really trying to achieve.

          2. Larry people do that with unseen handicaps and hurt people I know that way. They give the handicapped a bad rep. This is no different. I can’t help that, but I can fight against the associated discrimination.

            For a country that is on the mantra of don’t judge, its amazing how it changes depending on …

          3. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            V N – I understand where you are coming from. I DO!

            but mixing these two issue together is not the way to do it because the rapid anti-maskers could give a rats behind about he handicapped…

  21. VDOTyranny Avatar
    VDOTyranny

    > This is really simple. Wear the Damn mask unless you really want to cause trouble.

    Attention All Businesses! Replace your “By Order of the Governor” signs to “By Commandment of Larry.” He says its that simple.

    1. LarrytheG Avatar
      LarrytheG

      nope. it’s really simple. Wear the damn mask – it’s common sense and it a way to get along and deal with other issues.

      we have a bunch of spoiled brats masquerading as adults.

      1. VDOTyranny Avatar
        VDOTyranny

        Larry, the keyboard warrior, please contemplate the irony of your statements.

        > wear the mask… it’s common sense
        > we have a bunch of spoiled brats masquerading as adults

        1. LarrytheG Avatar
          LarrytheG

          I see these folks all day long… at stop lights, in lines that que up and they can’t abide it… etc.. no irony here.. we know who you are.

          you must don’t play well with others.. unless it’s all on your terms.

          we know you. We put up with you every day.

          Some folks help do what it takes to make things work

          you see them at 4-way stops and rounda-bouts… everyone is doing their thing and here comes big-butt…

        2. What is interesting to see is put different marginalized groups in Larry’s comments, and its the same attitude.

          No one addressed the fact that black men do feel scared of wearing a mask and I get the reason why. They have a point.

    2. and after seeing larry’s response, I know we can dismiss all his claims in the future. Just shut up, get along. Remember this Larry. It works for everyone, equality is the name of the game right?

      1. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        V N – I think mixing the issue of handicapped with mask wearing does no good for anyone and just amps up the hate and discontent.

        Just for your info – I have strongly support the government’s efforts to bring justice and equality to people who are handicapped and it’s totally true they have been wrongly treated for a long, long time.

        Just admit – that it did take the govt to do it – it would have never happened without the govt and the anti-maskers would have been some of the biggest “don’t care” types… because it’s all about them and they really don’t give a rip about others.

        1. VDOTyranny Avatar
          VDOTyranny

          > because it’s all about them and they really don’t give a rip about others

          What are YOU going to do about it?

          1. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            Like Steve mentioned. You look around and you recognize if there are idiots in proximity and if so – put some distance.

        2. Mixing it? By no choice of our own, it is there. We’re getting the brunt of it.

          My problem is not anti maskers. I dont’ care what they do. I care about the discrimination the handicapped get as a result of peoples’ beliefs.

          Its very simple: if people don’t care for antimaskers, just keep moving the other direction. I pass by folks whether masked or not, do my thing and go. I don’t report or stare or make comments.

          Sort of like someone is wearing a burqa, I don’t stare or be nasty. I let them do their thing.

          1. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            re: ” My problem is not anti maskers. I don’t care what they do. I care about the discrimination the handicapped get as a result of peoples’ beliefs.”

            so this is a thread about Amanda Chase not wearing a mask…

            right?

            You are correct. There is a lot of ignorance and discrimination of handicapped people in this world. And I did take note when the govt passed laws to deal with some of it and how Conservatives fought tooth and nail against “forcing” businesses to accommodate them.

            Is your argument that they’ve not done enough? What does this have to do with anti-maksers and Amanda Chase’s idiocy?

          2. made because of an apparently legitimate disability issue, approved by a doctor and made within the bounds of the EO.

  22. Steve Haner Avatar
    Steve Haner

    Fascinating additions to the lengthening and bitter string….but still no examples of actual medical conditions that would mean wearing a mask while walking into a restaurant would cause harm…..what comes to my mind (COPD or asthma) would mean you more clearly should be taking precautions.

    I have actually eaten inside a restaurant twice since March, in both cases the room being all but empty. This is why I’m still basically staying away. Too many fools….

    1. You were told no one owes you an explanation.
      So now we’re fools? SMH. For a conservative leaning person, it is interesting to see that life, liberty and the persuit of happiness doesn’t extend to what you think fits that definition.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        we have BOORS – people who really don’t care what impacts others – they will do whatever they wish and it’s too bad…

        They’re all over the place…normally but the mask issue has brought them their 15 minutes.

        Like Steve – when I encounter these fools – I put distance between us. Ran into one at the hospital the other day – he was warned to put on a mask and then had to be threatened with security being called.. and he finally did it. (He had the mask) Everyone else in the room was wearing masks and looking on…

        these are the kinds of folks that everyone else has to put up with. It’s all about them… you see this behavior in some badly behaved 5-year olds – and yes their parents are that way…bringing their kids up that way.

        1. Rioters/looters did that, saying businesses had insurance, when they didn’t. Instead they destroyed successful small black businesses.
          Part of living in a free society is you are stuck taking risks. Its that way for driving too. People overeat and over drink, should we force them to stop that also? It hurts other folks too.

      1. Try talking to doctors who work with the handicapped or the handicapped themselves (lots of various ones). Lots better than a CNBC reporter.

      2. Steve Haner Avatar
        Steve Haner

        Thanks. Fairly thin….as noted, with COPD or asthma you are the person who most needs fear COVID…

    2. VDOTyranny Avatar
      VDOTyranny

      No doubt people are taking advantage of the loophole. But, under the EO, no proof is required.

      When dealing with patrons, about all a business can legally do is ask “do you have a disability?” and hope the person you’re asking isn’t unhinged.

      The answer to your question is, “it doesn’t matter.” If you want it to matter, the advocate for the laws to be changed.

      1. If you are visually handicapped, most back off pretty quickly or don’t bother. Some folks will actually help you, which I appreciate and tell folks so. Its my folks who don’t “look” handicapped that have the heart issues that I worry over. They cope as best as they can. Doesn’t make their lives easier.

        To be honest, I tell those who are willing to pull the mask down so I can hear/understand, thank you also. I only have a couple that won’t. You see deafness in the previous 2 generations isn’t always visible on the 3rd, and there’s not a “card” for it.

  23. Steve Haner Avatar
    Steve Haner

    Sorry, VN, but at this point with all the data now it is clear that it is exceedingly foolish and selfish to refuse such a simple step as wearing a mask when around others inside, or if in a more crowded space outside. The problem we’re in now, as opposed to 60-90 days ago, is entirely due to those attitudes.

    1. Actually we aren’t Steve. Its just you are made up by the limited amount you read. I read a lot and still do, of the pro side as well as con side and other countries. Everything from articles to medical stuff.

      I can pick holes in them the VDH can’t answer. That shouldn’t happen but the fact it does means they haven’t been looking at articles that don’t fit in with their goals/ideals.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        My impression of other countries is that you wear the mask. No?
        Isn’t that how they are keeping their numbers lower than ours?

        1. Not all of them. Japan is one place I can think of (there are 2 others, have to look at notes) that still has COVID and they all wear masks.

          Sweden really didn’t, nor did the Netherlands that much. Sweden has some interesting #’s, they had problems in the beginning and it leveled off. They missed the LTCF’s, they know that, but Israel said the same thing. They didn’t anticipate that. If Va. had competent oversight for LTCF’s, our death #’s wouldn’t be that high, nor would NY’s.

          1. Steve Haner Avatar
            Steve Haner

            I don’t disagree that claim about long term care, VN. But I’m willing to bet that the Swedes did/do a far better job of wearing masks and social distancing than what we are seeing in the U.S. now. I read widely. I want to see the data. I would take HCQ!! But likewise the data tells me that near universal use of masks and social distancing would greatly reduce the spread. And its so easy I just don’t get the hate and discontent it generates.

          2. No Steve Haner, they did not wear masks and social distance. This is why I questioned what people have read and where they read it. There is a lot of bashing of Sweden in the popular press, but no they didn’t do all these lockdowns and mask wearing. Seems conservatives and progressives/left aren’t all that different when it comes to some things.

            https://www.westernjournal.com/looked-happened-sweden-refused-shut-right-wrong/
            https://www.dailywire.com/news/swedens-top-epidemiologist-says-we-see-no-point-in-wearing-masks-as-covid-19-cases-drop
            https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/05/coronavirus-crisis-sweden-refused-lockdown-other-countries-following/

  24. Steve Haner Avatar
    Steve Haner

    Sorry, VN, but at this point with all the data now it is clear that it is exceedingly foolish and selfish to refuse such a simple step as wearing a mask when around others inside, or if in a more crowded space outside. The problem we’re in now, as opposed to 60-90 days ago, is entirely due to those attitudes.

    1. Actually we aren’t Steve. Its just you are made up by the limited amount you read. I read a lot and still do, of the pro side as well as con side and other countries. Everything from articles to medical stuff.

      I can pick holes in them the VDH can’t answer. That shouldn’t happen but the fact it does means they haven’t been looking at articles that don’t fit in with their goals/ideals.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        My impression of other countries is that you wear the mask. No?
        Isn’t that how they are keeping their numbers lower than ours?

        1. Not all of them. Japan is one place I can think of (there are 2 others, have to look at notes) that still has COVID and they all wear masks.

          Sweden really didn’t, nor did the Netherlands that much. Sweden has some interesting #’s, they had problems in the beginning and it leveled off. They missed the LTCF’s, they know that, but Israel said the same thing. They didn’t anticipate that. If Va. had competent oversight for LTCF’s, our death #’s wouldn’t be that high, nor would NY’s.

          1. Steve Haner Avatar
            Steve Haner

            I don’t disagree that claim about long term care, VN. But I’m willing to bet that the Swedes did/do a far better job of wearing masks and social distancing than what we are seeing in the U.S. now. I read widely. I want to see the data. I would take HCQ!! But likewise the data tells me that near universal use of masks and social distancing would greatly reduce the spread. And its so easy I just don’t get the hate and discontent it generates.

          2. No Steve Haner, they did not wear masks and social distance. This is why I questioned what people have read and where they read it. There is a lot of bashing of Sweden in the popular press, but no they didn’t do all these lockdowns and mask wearing. Seems conservatives and progressives/left aren’t all that different when it comes to some things.

            https://www.westernjournal.com/looked-happened-sweden-refused-shut-right-wrong/
            https://www.dailywire.com/news/swedens-top-epidemiologist-says-we-see-no-point-in-wearing-masks-as-covid-19-cases-drop
            https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/05/coronavirus-crisis-sweden-refused-lockdown-other-countries-following/

  25. Nancy_Naive Avatar
    Nancy_Naive

    Wow, the ultimate alignment of the stars of narcissism, an ill-tempered, treacherously litigious woman with a supposed respiratory condition that obviates the wearing of a mask in an epidemic.

    I’ll bet she’s an antivaxer too.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7o9B5dpiPE

    1. Steve Haner Avatar
      Steve Haner

      She’s suffering from the most severe case of Important Person Disease I’ve seen around the General Assembly in a long time….I couldn’t give a damn whether she wears a mask or not, but creating a scene in a family restaurant just to play the heroine on Facebook is outrageous.

  26. Nancy_Naive Avatar
    Nancy_Naive

    Wow, the ultimate alignment of the stars of narcissism, an ill-tempered, treacherously litigious woman with a supposed respiratory condition that obviates the wearing of a mask in an epidemic.

    I’ll bet she’s an antivaxer too.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7o9B5dpiPE

    1. Steve Haner Avatar
      Steve Haner

      She’s suffering from the most severe case of Important Person Disease I’ve seen around the General Assembly in a long time….I couldn’t give a damn whether she wears a mask or not, but creating a scene in a family restaurant just to play the heroine on Facebook is outrageous.

  27. Top-GUN Avatar

    The Restaurant is in the Wrong..
    After someone says they have a medical condition they have no right under HIPPA to ask any more questions and they are required to accommodate the customer, just like they are required to accommodate any customer with a disability…
    You go Girl….

  28. Top-GUN Avatar

    The Restaurant is in the Wrong..
    After someone says they have a medical condition they have no right under HIPPA to ask any more questions and they are required to accommodate the customer, just like they are required to accommodate any customer with a disability…
    You go Girl….

  29. LarrytheG Avatar
    LarrytheG

    What’s the argument against wearing a clear face shield?

  30. LarrytheG Avatar
    LarrytheG

    What’s the argument against wearing a clear face shield?

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