Why the Enrollment Decline at VMI? Look to White Males for an Explanation.

This photo, taken in 1997, shows a female VMI Rat, Megan Smith, undergoing a grilling by upper class cadets during Hell Week. The Washington Post republished the photo last week to mark the 25th anniversary of women entering VMI, effectively reinforcing the image of VMI as a sexist institution. Remarkably, when staff writer Ian Shapira tracked her down in southern France, where she now works as an attorney, Smith (now Megan Portavoce) said the photo was taken out of context. “I looked liked … I was scared. But I didn’t feel scared,” she said. “I think the photo is often taken out of context. It’s used as proof of harassment towards women. But it was equal opportunity harassment that day.” Male freshmen were verbally abused, too, she said. “Everyone gets yelled at. They just find something to needle you with, to get under your skin. It’s part of the system of testing everyone.”

by James A. Bacon

When the Virginia Military Institute re-opened for its fall semester Monday with its usual parade-ground pageantry, it counted only 375 cadets in the 1st-year class. That’s down 24% from 494 the previous year.

“We believe there are a number of contributing factors,” says VMI spokesman Bill Wyatt. “Schools throughout the commonwealth and the nation are dealing with similar declines.” Nationally, there are 1.3 million fewer first-time college students this year than last, so VMI is competing for a smaller number of applicants. Moreover, the COVID pandemic depressed attendance at VMI’s open house program, he says. Personal tours are critical for showcasing the military academy’s unique value proposition.

But others offer different explanations. A large alumni contingent has been unhappy with developments at VMI since The Washington Post and former Governor Ralph Northam painted the academy as a relentlessly racist and sexist institution. They point to the wave of negative publicity generated by a Northam-ordered investigation into racism and sexism that was amplified by the media. These alumni also charge that the infiltration of leftist ideology at VMI is turning off families who still respect its core traditions of honor, character and patriotism.

“If the public believes VMI is racist and sexist, not to mention now woke,” says Carmen Villani, a vocal critic, “who wants to send their sons or daughters there?” (See his column accompanying this one.)

In seeming fulfillment of the alumni critique, the Post last week published a retrospective upon the occasion of the 25th anniversary of women first admitted to VMI. It led with a photo of a slight 1st-year woman, Megan Smith, being shouted at by hulking, grimacing, blood vessel-popping males. The headline to last week’s story: “VMI’s male cadets were berating her. The 1997 Hell Week photo went viral.”

An honest accounting of VMI’s plummeting 1st-year enrollment would acknowledge that both VMI and its critics have valid points.

It is indisputable that, as Wyatt says, the number of college-bound youth is in decline nationally. “High school graduates are simply fewer in number and are choosing to go directly into the workforce at a higher rate than before,” he says. “Additionally, the numbers of high schools who took the SAT and ACT declined. These standardized tests have traditionally been a source for prospective applicants to self-identify their interest in attending a military college.”

VMI is concerned enough by the fall-off in matriculations, Wyatt says, “that it intends to conduct “a competitive analysis” and will launch a “strategic enrollment management initiative” this year to develop a “long-range recruitment and retention plan.”

But alumni critics are right to observe that there is more to the story. While college enrollment is declining nationally, the downturn is far worse at VMI, they contend.

A barrage of negative publicity from The Washington Post, the newspaper with the largest circulation in Virginia, has cast VMI in a consistently negative light on the military academy over the past two years.

Since September 9, 2020, when The Post published his article entitled, “At VMI, Black Alumni Want Stonewall Jackson’s Statue Removed. The School Refuses,” staff writer Ian Shapira has written 36 stories about VMI. Literally each one has been critical of the institution or of conservative alumni who have striven to uphold its traditions. On the basis of anecdotal information Shapira has repetitively made the case that VMI as an institution is racist and sexist. Similar stories have appeared in other media outlets, although none have been has relentlessly critical as the Post.

Given the portrayal of VMI as racist and sexist, one might speculate that Blacks, women and minorities would be turned off. But the opposite appears to be the case. Matriculation of minorities at VMI is up sharply this year compared to last year (2021-22), the number of women is down slightly, and the number  of Whites and males is down precipitously.

The 2022-23 numbers have not been published officially yet. I got them from VMI spokesman Wyatt. Complicating any analysis is the fact that the VMI Data Dashboard, which provides the historical data, includes Hispanic as a racial/ethnic category, while Wyatt’s data does not. Wyatt’s data allocates this year’s 35 Hispanics between Whites and Blacks, which would indicate that the decline in White matriculation is even sharper than indicated in the table above, while the increase in Black enrollment is somewhat less pronounced.

Bottom line: The decline in the size of VMI’s entering class can be explained almost entirely by plummeting numbers of White male cadets. Any analysis of what’s happening at VMI must put that fact front and center.

One plausible explanation is that families sending their children to VMI tend to be more culturally and politically conservative and more likely to respond viscerally to loose accusations of racism and sexism. They also know the Institute has been undergoing profound changes in the recent past: removing the Stonewall Jackson statue, modifying the honor code “drum out ceremony,” and institutionalizing Diversity, Equity & Inclusion programs, which they fear are loaded with leftist cant.

Conversely, Black and other minority students might feel, despite the outpouring of negative publicity, that VMI is changing and that the changes augur well for them.

Another factor to be considered is the VMI admissions policies. To what degree, if any, has VMI sought to remake the demographic make-up of the Cadet corps through admissions and scholarships? Answering that question would require gaining access to data that the Institute does not publish.

In the final analysis, if you want to know why VMI’s enrollment is in decline, ask the White males.


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91 responses to “Why the Enrollment Decline at VMI? Look to White Males for an Explanation.”

  1. Nancy Naive Avatar
    Nancy Naive

    They’re going for those high-pay teaching jobs. Military isn’t risky enough. Angry anti-LBGTQ parents pose more of a threat than ISIS.

  2. Teddy007 Avatar

    If VMI is too progressive, then what university would a student attend. Or is it easier being conservative at enormous state university than a smaller college?

    How is Liberty University doing these days?

    1. Stephen Haner Avatar
      Stephen Haner

      “Liberty is welcoming its second-largest incoming class in school history this year, after hitting a record for new and transfer residential students last fall.” That’s residential, not including its massive online programs.

      https://www.liberty.edu/news/2022/08/18/new-year-new-faces-lu-welcomes-freshman-class-in-grand-style/

      1. Teddy007 Avatar

        To compare (using collegersults.org) : Liberty has a six year graduation rate of 52% whereas VMI has a six year graduation rate of 76%. VMI also has a higher percentage of student come back for the second year compared to Liberty University.
        The top majors at Liberty are business, psych, and religion. The top majors at VMI at civil engineering, economics, and international relations.

        1. On a side note, based on my experiences throughout my career, VMI has an excellent civil engineering program.

          1. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            It as well as the other private military academies and or service academies have fantastic Engineering programs.

  3. YellowstoneBound1948 Avatar
    YellowstoneBound1948

    That is a classic photo of Cadet Megan Smith and the four upperclassmen giving her the business. For the gentle readers here, the photo is mostly posed. The upperclassmen were giving it their best, and they succeeded. It is not easy to contort one’s face and neck to the degree that they did, without being really, really angry, something they were not. No, they were actually “playing the game,” and all incoming cadets are told what to expect, and not to take it seriously. Follow the rules of the game, yes, but submit to abuse, no. The contorted faces would soon fade away, and would not return until next year, but with different players and then only for a day or two.

    1. M. Purdy Avatar

      It was posed? How do you know this?

      1. Nancy Naive Avatar
        Nancy Naive

        Narrative.

      2. Matt Adams Avatar
        Matt Adams

        Because they do it every year, it’s called a shark attack and they also do it at the beginning of every basic training in every branch of the Military.

        Perhaps you should try your hand at service and find out?

        1. M. Purdy Avatar

          Is that what they call it? Do tell! I was in barracks when that photo was taken. I was cadre for another company. I know three people in that photo. And when I graduated I took a commission. So yeah, your comeback is pretty lame, Matt.

          1. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            “M. Purdy 5 minutes ago
            Is that what they call it? Do tell! I was in barracks when that photo was taken. I was cadre for another company. I know three people in that photo. And when I graduated I took a commission. So yeah, your comeback is pretty lame, Matt.”

            Cool story, if you were any of those items you’d know your statement about tuition was fallacious.

            PS: The individual in that photo was interviewed and her statements are contrary to yours.

            Oh and MOS?

          2. M. Purdy Avatar

            All of things are true, Matt. You disgrace yourself.

          3. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            Sure they are bub, how about that MOS princess.

            This photo, taken in 1997, shows a female VMI Rat, Megan Smith, undergoing a grilling by upper class cadets during Hell Week. The Washington Post republished the photo last week to mark the 25th anniversary of women entering VMI, effectively reinforcing the image of VMI as a sexist institution. Remarkably, when staff writer Ian Shapira tracked her down in southern France, where she now works as an attorney, Smith (now Megan Portavoce) said the photo was taken out of context. “I looked liked … I was scared. But I didn’t feel scared,” she said. “I think the photo is often taken out of context. It’s used as proof of harassment towards women. But it was equal opportunity harassment that day.” Male freshmen were verbally abused, too, she said. “Everyone gets yelled at. They just find something to needle you with, to get under your skin. It’s part of the system of testing everyone.”

          4. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            Sure they are bub, how about that MOS princess.

            This photo, taken in 1997, shows a female VMI Rat, Megan Smith, undergoing a grilling by upper class cadets during Hell Week. The Washington Post republished the photo last week to mark the 25th anniversary of women entering VMI, effectively reinforcing the image of VMI as a sexist institution. Remarkably, when staff writer Ian Shapira tracked her down in southern France, where she now works as an attorney, Smith (now Megan Portavoce) said the photo was taken out of context. “I looked liked … I was scared. But I didn’t feel scared,” she said. “I think the photo is often taken out of context. It’s used as proof of harassment towards women. But it was equal opportunity harassment that day.” Male freshmen were verbally abused, too, she said. “Everyone gets yelled at. They just find something to needle you with, to get under your skin. It’s part of the system of testing everyone.”

          5. M. Purdy Avatar

            Geezus, what she said doesn’t contradict what I’m saying, genius! My argument is that it’s not “posed.” Which it’s not. And what you say has no bearing. And you do a great job of making my case that the arguments of people like you comes down to one thing–you don’t believe other alums.

          6. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            “And you do a great job of making my case that the arguments of people like you comes down to one thing–you don’t believe other alums.”

            From the individual who says they don’t believe other alums.

            Again, MOS. Seems like you’re avoiding that one, considering it should roll off your tongue.

          7. M. Purdy Avatar

            Because I didn’t have one. Navy doesn’t use MOS, it uses designators. 1835. Good talk, dummy.

          8. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            “M. Purdy • 6 minutes ago
            Because I didn’t have one. Navy doesn’t use MOS, it uses designators. 1835. Good talk, dummy.”

            MOS is used across services, as it stands for Military Occupational Specialty. You had an MOS, if you were in fact being honest.

            http://www.mosdb.com/navy/1835/mos/736/

            Seems you’re lacking some of that their Intelligence to be an Navy Reserve Intel Officer.

          9. M. Purdy Avatar

            Not once in my 6 years of Navy service did I hear anyone cal it an MOS. It’s a designator or rating (for enlisted). You care to apologize to me now that you questioned my service and you were wrong? Care to challenge me that I was cadre and in the building when that photo was taken? You have a shred of integrity?

          10. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            “M. Purdy Matt Adams • a minute ago
            Not once in my 6 years of Navy service did I hear anyone cal it an MOS. It’s a designator or rating (for enlisted). You care to apologize to me now that you questioned my service and you were wrong? Care to challenge me that I was cadre and in the building when that photo was taken? You have a shred of integrity?”

            Just because you didn’t hear anyone say it doesn’t mean it’s not true, princess.

            Enlisted Navy members have an NEC.

            You made statements that were incongruent with someone who would have served.

            “Care to challenge me that I was cadre and in the building when that photo was taken? You have a shred of integrity?”

            This particular statement in general can be neither proved or disproved, so you placing an validity in it is hilarious.

            Also, it’s rather amusing to questions someone’s integrity based upon statements on a blog. This is especially true, because you’re questioning others integrity as to what they witnessed at VMI.

            So alleged Lieutenant, you can go pound sand.

          11. M. Purdy Avatar

            So in this post, you establish that you have no integrity (can’t admit you’re wrong) or credibility, because your idiot argument is based on not believing me when I’m telling the truth and can back it up. Good stuff. A real “VMI Man” you are!

          12. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            “M. Purdy 3 minutes ago
            So in this post, you establish that you have no integrity (can’t admit you’re wrong) or credibility, because your idiot argument is based on not believing me when I’m telling the truth and can back it up. Good stuff. A real “VMI Man” you are!”

            You’re not in any position to question anyone’s integrity when you’ve made the following statements:

            “M. Purdy
            12 hours ago
            “If the public believes VMI is racist and sexist, not to mention now woke,” says Carmen Villani, a vocal critic, “who wants to send their sons or daughters there?” Let’s unpack this ludicrous statement, shall we? This quote laments the very thing it argues (VMI is woke, because I think it is!!!). Carmen has been the chief propagandist in that line of argument. In contrast, the public believes that VMI had systemic problems based on VMI people–dozens of them–willing to go on the record and risk their reputations to tell the truth about what they experienced at VMI. (Or, to put it in JB’s terms, dozens, if not more, “anecdotes.”) Cross examine them, if you wish. Contact them, put them on the record. They’re telling the truth. Look at this echo chamber. Lots of men, mostly white, talking about their perceptions about what’s going on with limited evidence. Lots of folks denying that VMI’s problems are systemic even though generations of minorities of experienced effectively the same treatment. And it really comes down to that, doesn’t it? You just don’t believe people’s experience could be that different than a white man’s.”

            “because your idiot argument is based on not believing me when I’m telling the truth and can back it up”

            Fallacious reasoning and okay. Prove it!

            Where did I say I graduated from VMI?

          13. M. Purdy Avatar

            “Where did I say I graduated from VMI?” I assumed you did, and gave you the benefit of the doubt. But if you didn’t, it just proves you have even less credibility than before.

          14. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            “M. Purdy a few seconds ago
            “Where did I say I graduated from VMI?” I assumed you did, and gave you the benefit of the doubt. But if you didn’t, it just proves you have even less credibility than before.”

            That is without a doubt the most fallacious reasoning I’ve ever seen.

            So you gonna “prove” you were a cadre in that room in 1997 or you just gonna throw more strawmen up?

            Lets count:

            1) Alleged VMI Cadre
            2) Alleged Enlisted to Reserve Naval Intel Officer
            1 & 2 having occurred within a 6 year enlistment/commission
            3) Alleged Lawyer

            Any additional items you’d wish to add to your resume?

          15. M. Purdy Avatar

            Keep trying, Matt. You’re doing a great job of making a fool of yourself. (PS, I never said I was an enlisted, and that photo is not in a room, it’s on the stoop.)

          16. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            Again with the ad hom attacks, they don’t help your case when you question others integrity.

            Ok, 6 years is a strange number to serve considering commissions are MSD positions and not based on anything but paying back whatever scholarship you may have used.

            1st 1 = Line Officer
            4th 5 = Navy Reserve either RR or SR

            Your previous statement:

            “Care to challenge me that I was cadre and in the building when that photo was taken? You have a shred of integrity?”

          17. M. Purdy Avatar

            Keep trying, Matt. You almost solved the riddle. Keep going! And when you find out that you’re wrong, I’ll expect a full correction and apology.

          18. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            “M. Purdy Matt Adams • 9 minutes ago
            Keep trying, Matt. You almost solved the riddle. Keep going! And when you find out that you’re wrong, I’ll expect a full correction and apology.”

            So directly quoting you is wrong?

            You’re obfuscating again.

          19. M. Purdy Avatar

            You said “room.” I said “building.” I was in the building. That picture is not taken in a room. It’s on the stoop. Keep going! You almost had me!

          20. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            “M. Purdy a minute ago
            You said “room.” I said “building.” I was in the building. That picture is not taken in a room. It’s on the stoop. Keep going! You almost had me!”

            What are you prattling on about? Buildings have rooms.

            A stoop is a small staircase ending in a platform at the entrance of a building.

            I quoted you and you’re wanting to play semantics games.

          21. M. Purdy Avatar

            Semantics? You don’t know the difference between a building and a room. They are not the same. That picture was not taken in a room, but it was taken in a building.

          22. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            “M. Purdy 3 minutes ago
            Semantics? You don’t know the difference between a building and a room. They are not the same. That picture was not taken in a room, but it was taken in a building.”

            Wow, just wow.

            Building
            a usually roofed and walled structure built for permanent use (as for a dwelling)

            Room
            a partitioned part of the inside of a building

            Stoop
            a porch, platform, entrance stairway, or small veranda at a house door

            Again, semantics in an effort to prove your “rightness”.

          23. M. Purdy Avatar

            Right, because you said that I said I was in the “room.” I was not in the room. That’s your statement. I was in the building. Not the same. You’d make a terrible lawyer.

          24. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            “M. Purdy Matt Adams • 40 minutes ago
            Right, because you said that I said I was in the “room.” I was not in the room. That’s your statement. I was in the building. Not the same. You’d make a terrible lawyer.”

            Again, you’re playing semantics IOT assure you’re “rightness”. It’s a game, it has nothing to do with anything that is relevant.

            Given your prose, I’d question that you were one.

          25. Merchantseamen Avatar
            Merchantseamen

            Mr. Purdy lost the debate as soon as he called you names. Always the default for the Leftist blowhards.

          26. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            “M. Purdy a few seconds ago
            “Where did I say I graduated from VMI?” I assumed you did, and gave you the benefit of the doubt. But if you didn’t, it just proves you have even less credibility than before.”

            That is without a doubt the most fallacious reasoning I’ve ever seen.

            So you gonna “prove” you were a cadre in that room in 1997 or you just gonna throw more strawmen up?

            Lets count:

            1) Alleged VMI Cadre
            2) Alleged Enlisted to Reserve Naval Intel Officer
            1 & 2 having occurred within a 6 year enlistment/commission
            3) Alleged Lawyer

            Any additional items you’d wish to add to your resume?

  4. Nancy Naive Avatar
    Nancy Naive

    anachronism

  5. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
    Dick Hall-Sizemore

    You seem to imply that “leftist ideology” and “honor, character, and patriotism” are mutually exclusive concepts.

    1. Donald Smith Avatar
      Donald Smith

      Well, when we see the governor of Virginia, then a progressive, take advantage of Superintendent Binford Peay’s personal honor, we do have to wonder how highly leftists value the concept of honor.

      IIRC, a Northam staffer (not the governor himself) told Peay the governor had lost faith in him, based mostly—if not completely—on Shapira’s reporting. I’ll bet that the Northam administration hoped that Peay, being an honorable man, would offer to resign. Which, being an honorable man, he did.

      Honorable people do not take advantage of other honorable people. The Virginia Democrats took advantage of Superintendent Peay.

  6. Stephen Haner Avatar
    Stephen Haner

    One metric that would add to the analysis would be how many offers of admission were made, in the categories if available….Was that stable over the period? Up or down? Who was most likely to decline? Former Governor Northam, who long purported to admire his old school, led this mob and has reaped what he sowed.

    1. Teddy007 Avatar

      That is the issue that many universities have among how many are accepted, how many enroll, and the yield of how many show up for the first day of orientation. When one hears that a university has a 50% acceptance rate, what is skipped is that only 50% of the students who are accepted actually bother to enroll and usually around 90-95% of those who enroll actually show up.

  7. Guy Wilson Avatar
    Guy Wilson

    While the national academies are somewhat down in applicants, The Citadel has the largest entering class ever, over 850. Thus we can believe the issues cited here are driving factors. The Citadel is deeper South. while VMI draws from northern states like Pennsylvania and New Jersey. It would be interesting to see geographic source changes.

    1. Donald Smith Avatar
      Donald Smith

      Good point. I get the impression that many of those who want to “reform” VMI really wish the school was in someplace like Pennsylvania or New Jersey. The “V” in VMI doesn’t seem to mean much to a lot of them.

    2. M. Purdy Avatar

      Can you explain your logic? The Citadel is massively “woke” relative to VMI. What ‘factors’ would lead you to believe that the same alleged causation is at play?

  8. JB, you observe, “One plausible explanation is that families sending their children to VMI tend to be more culturally and politically conservative and more likely to respond viscerally to loose accusations of racism and sexism.”

    Perhaps. But the elephant in the room is that it’s a military school. What’s the admissions experience at comparable institutions that don’t have to deal with Ian Shapira? Is there something about the prospect of a military college experience that is less attractive to that-already-reduced number of high school graduates today? Is the increase in minority admissions a reflection of a different view of military careers in the minority community?

  9. Keydet16 Avatar

    I think low enrollment numbers can be expected at the ‘I’ for the next few years. VMI, despite what folks here might say isn’t really ‘woke’, but, it is also not really a revanchist conservative college either. As a result, it doesn’t really appeal to conservative families in the Chesterfield, SWVA, Orange county, etc., but it also doesn’t appeal to uber-progressive families in NOVA either.

    And of course, the incessant and borderline slanderous reporting from Ian doesn’t help.

    I suspect that the enrollment numbers will pick up around the ’24-’25 academic year.

  10. M. Purdy Avatar

    “If the public believes VMI is racist and sexist, not to mention now woke,” says Carmen Villani, a vocal critic, “who wants to send their sons or daughters there?” Let’s unpack this ludicrous statement, shall we? This quote laments the very thing it argues (VMI is woke, because I think it is!!!). Carmen has been the chief propagandist in that line of argument. In contrast, the public believes that VMI had systemic problems based on VMI people–dozens of them–willing to go on the record and risk their reputations to tell the truth about what they experienced at VMI. (Or, to put it in JB’s terms, dozens, if not more, “anecdotes.”) Cross examine them, if you wish. Contact them, put them on the record. They’re telling the truth. Look at this echo chamber. Lots of men, mostly white, talking about their perceptions about what’s going on with limited evidence. Lots of folks denying that VMI’s problems are systemic even though generations of minorities of experienced effectively the same treatment. And it really comes down to that, doesn’t it? You just don’t believe people’s experience could be that different than a white man’s.

    1. Donald Smith Avatar
      Donald Smith

      “The public believes that VMI had systemic problems”
      Alright…if you say so.

      “You just don’t believe people’s experience could be that different than a white man’s.”
      Out of curiosity, what qualifies you to state, with certainty, what people do and don’t believe? Are you psychic?

      1. M. Purdy Avatar

        You should really quote the whole thing if you’re going to quote me. Why do they believe it, Stonewall? As to the last point, it has nothing to do with being open minded and everything to do with people speaking for other people. This whole argument is based on older alumni not believing people who aren’t just like them. I didn’t frame this as a white man’s issue, mind you, Bacon did.

        1. Donald Smith Avatar
          Donald Smith

          There was no need to quote the whole sentence. You said “the public”–as in the whole public. Not a slice of it—the whole thing. The whole “public” doesn’t agree with the shenanigans going on at VMI, and you know it. And so do we.

          “This whole argument is based on older alumni not believing people who are just like them.” Okay, if you say so.

          1. M. Purdy Avatar

            I quoted, Carmen. It’s literally quoted in the article, Stonewall.

          1. M. Purdy Avatar

            I can’t take that seriously. That shop is run by an ‘older alum.’ It’s literally registered under his name. It’s the same guy suing the school right now. And there’s no name on that editorial.

          2. Donald Smith Avatar
            Donald Smith

            “I can’t take that seriously.”
            So? We’re supposed to be moved by the fact that you can’t take it seriously?

            “That shop is run by an ‘older alum.’”
            Is the ‘older alum” Obi Wan Kenobi? Has he pulled a Jedi Mind Trick on The Cadet’s editors, and forced them to write things they don’t believe?

            “And there’s no name on that editorial.”
            Editorials normally aren’t signed. Opinion pieces are. Editorials are understood to be the collective voice of the newspaper’s editorial board.

          3. M. Purdy Avatar

            “Editorials normally aren’t signed. Opinion pieces are. Editorials are understood to be the collective voice of the newspaper’s editorial board.” That’s right, but in this case, the guy who **runs the paper** is the guy who’s SUING THE SCHOOL and publicizing it. That’s called a conflict of interest. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect some type of clarification in that case.

  11. LarrytheG Avatar
    LarrytheG

    For all the discussions here about the high cost of college especially at Va flagship universities – VMI doesn’t seem to do much better especially at out of State.

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/17b07f0169333c96ea428e9e0450f3eb9fac23b372d94398a72abb0487ef27bb.jpg

    The Citadel looks to be much less especially for out of state.

    So perhaps the question to ask the white demographic is about whether they are out of state AND what they chose instead and was it a similar school like Citadel?

    1. M. Purdy Avatar

      Super expensive, and I’ve also been told that they don’t supplement ROTC scholarships to cover full cost of attending like other competitor schools. Add in all the other factors, including the negative coverage, and you have a ton of causes for the downturn, no single one of which is itself responsible.

      1. Matt Adams Avatar
        Matt Adams

        “M. Purdy • an hour ago
        Super expensive, and I’ve also been told that they don’t supplement ROTC scholarships to cover full cost of attending like other competitor schools. Add in all the other factors, including the negative coverage, and you have a ton of causes for the downturn, no single one of which is itself responsible.”

        You’ve been told wrong, but your hate of VMI is a known commodity.

        ROTC scholarships come in different flavors, from full to partial and it doesn’t matter the cost. You can also get an ROTC scholarship at different junctures of your college career.

        1. M. Purdy Avatar

          No sh*t. Read the post again. I said that VMI doesn’t **supplement** ROTC to cover the full costs. Other schools do (see below). As for hate of VMI, I choose to spend my time defending it and raising $$ for it, rather than giving $$ to some PAC or writing petitions to elected officials. Nor have I sued the school;-). https://today.citadel.edu/the-citadel-to-cover-funding-for-room-and-board-one-year-tuition-for-qualifying-rotc-scholarship-recipients-enrolling-for-fall-2022/

          1. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            “M. Purdy a few seconds ago
            No sh*t. Read the post again. I said that VMI doesn’t **supplement** ROTC to cover the full costs. Other schools do (see below). As for hate of VMI, I choose to spend my time defending it and raising $$ for it, rather than giving $$ to some PAC or writing petitions to elected officials.”

            VMI doesn’t administer the scholarships, the Army, Navy, Marines & Air Force do.

            No you don’t, you come on this board and trash VMI every time there is an article.

            ROTC scholarships will cover the entire cost of any institution that a cadet who has received the full scholarship attends (I mean I commission via ROTC as did by wife, but what would I know). They are competitive and hard to get, but hey they covered Wifey’s private Catholic School Nursing degree to the tune of $152,000, but you can go on and spout BS.

          2. M. Purdy Avatar

            Explain what the Citadel does, Matt. And this board trashes VMI all the time. I trash people like you.

          3. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            “M. Purdy 9 minutes ago
            Explain what the Citadel does, Matt. And this board trashes VMI all the time. I trash people like you.”

            That’s incorrect bub, but hey you go with that.

            The Citadel’s instate tuition is $12,620, VMI’s instate tuition is $19,210, Norwich’s instate tuition is $57,796.

            Considering I’ve known members who Commissioned from each insituion and who had scholarships and it was all paid for, you’re barking up the wrong tree.

            Also out of state of the Citadel is $35,876 out of state of VMI is $47,220.

          4. M. Purdy Avatar

            And so what? Are you claiming that the Citadel doesn’t supplement ROTC?

          5. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            “And so what? Are you claiming that the Citadel doesn’t supplement ROTC?”

            An ROTC full scholarship covers the entire cost of attendance, what would be the need for a “supplement”.

          6. M. Purdy Avatar

            Because not all ROTC scholarships cover full cost! Only some do. Cripe, it’s not hard.

          7. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            “M. Purdy • a minute ago
            Because not all ROTC scholarships cover full cost! Only some do. Cripe, it’s not hard.”

            Correct, it’s called a full scholarship for a reason. If you get a partial scholarship awarded in your MSIII year, you take out loans to attend like every other University in the United States.

            The Citadel may off grants and or loans themselves but that is again irrelevant to what a ROTC scholarship covers.

          8. M. Purdy Avatar

            OMG, you are some kind of dense.

          9. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            “M. Purdy a few seconds ago
            OMG, you are some kind of dense.”

            You’re just a ball full of ad hom attacks aren’t you princess.

  12. Would be instructive to understand if the other military schools, like the Citadel, saw similar results.

    1. Matt Adams Avatar
      Matt Adams

      Why just Citadel?

      What about Norwich, Georgia Military College, Valley Forge, New Mexico Military Institute, Marion Military Institute, University of North Georgia, Texas A&M, etc..

      1. my comment says: “other military schools like the Citadel”

        1. Matt Adams Avatar
          Matt Adams

          Okay, so the Citadel was just mentioned because that’s what you knew. That’s fine.

          Just an aside the Service Academies applications were down 30% this year as well.

          1. That’s an interesting stat and provides good context for the question of what’s driving vmi results, but I was definitely thinking more about apples to apples comparisons. The citadel and vmi are a lot alike. Texas A&M not so much.

          2. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            True enough, Texas A&M I think is pretty comparable though. It provides a path to the military but is not required. Most of the military institutes or college are similar to VMI.

          3. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            Can you name the schools you consider to be all “apples”?

            VMI…. who else?

          4. Matt has listed most of the schools. I wouldn’t include A&M in the apples to apples comparison because the Corp pf Cadets is part of a much larger institution (even though is it an institution onto itself within A&M), but the others he listed are close enough. Citadel is a close proxy but it’s not a perfect match.

        2. LarrytheG Avatar
          LarrytheG

          want me to provide the others?
          not hard. just say the word.

  13. Retracted since my question had already been answered.

    Reminding me once again that it helps to read the entire thread before commenting…

    😐

  14. Carmen Villani Jr Avatar
    Carmen Villani Jr

    Mr., Purdy has a propensity of disappointing and misrepresenting. He states the public believes that VMI has “systemic problems.” Nice dodge and way to quibble. What are those “systemic” problems that he speaks of? According to the former Governor, it was racism. According to the Washington Post, it was sexism as well. I haven’t, nor have so many other alumni, disputed the experiences put forth by “VMI People.” Interesting choice of words given how many of us view ourselves as proud alumni. The public was fed a lie, which Mr. Purdy and others helped to feed, and given his so-called astute knowledge of history and experience with propaganda, he should recall – “repeat a lie often enough and it becomes the truth.”

    My argument from the beginning has not denied the incidents of racism or sexism as he suggests, but that individual incidents of the two, do not translate to structural, systemic, or institutional as put forth by the Barnes & Thornburg report. So let’s look at what some fellow alumni have said about the Institute: “We have known the Institute to be a premier leadership institution and we have also experienced racial incidents. When wholly considered, VMI is an outstanding institution of higher-learning to which many of us owe a debt of gratitude.” That came from alumni that referred to themselves as “Senior African American Alumni.” Seems as though Mr. Purdy has forgotten about that, which is especially troubling since he posted that letter on a Facebook page. Then there was the statement by MG Wins in June of 2021 responding to the assertion of VMI being institutionally racist – “FACTS SIMPLY DO NOT SUPOPORT THAT POSITION” (emphasis added). Clearly, Mr. Purdy continues to display a propensity for not dealing with the totality of facts.

    Then there is the “systemic” sexist piece. Here are some more facts for consideration. Recently, the VMI Alumni Association has put forth videos of female alumni/cadets speaking very favorably of VMI. One video tells of a father encouraging his daughters to attend VMI. One of them stated: “When I got to VMI, everyone was very supportive of me.” Another is of an alumnus telling of her uncle, a VMI graduate, encouraging her to attend VMI. Others who have spoken favorably of VMI in recent years that may come as a surprise to many:

    Former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton (2012): “Let me express my thanks to General Peay, Brigadier General Green, Brigadier General Schneiter, Colonel Hentz, and all of VMI’s leadership for stewarding one of our nation’s finest and most historic educational institutions.”

    The late Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg when she visited there and was presented with a “Keydet” pin, as well as a token of appreciation gift (2017): “I will wear it even more proudly at VMI”; “This will be placed on a shelf just behind my desk, and I am very proud to put it there.”

    I suggest readers go to the VMI website to see a very different narrative than what Mr. Purdy promotes and then determine if the “public view” is based upon the truth. See: https://www.vmialumni.org/news-and-publications/alumni-review/featured-article/

    Mr. Purdy and those who share his view have had great success in altering the VMI experience. Contrary to his unwillingness to accept responsibility for such ill-conceived actions, they have managed to create division within our ranks and seen those entering VMI decrease at a much higher rate than national/state averages reported in the Richmond Times-Dispatch and Military.com.

    By contributing to the telling of a repeated lie, which became the “truth to the public,” he has done a grave disservice to the fine reputation of VMI, the Corps of Cadets, and the alumni of the Institute. In his own words, Mr. Purdy remained at VMI because of his friends. Thousands of other alumni remained there because they understood that, while not perfect, the 4-year VMI experience would prepare them to succeed in life. History has borne that out to be true. By his positions and responses, he gives the impression that he bows to the altar of wokeism and arrogance. He is free to make that choice and I certainly respect his decision to do so. I on the other hand, choose to humbly kneel before God and ask for wisdom and courage. That is what a free society provides. By all means, he deserves the right to express his point of view. What he doesn’t deserve is my respect.

    1. LarrytheG Avatar
      LarrytheG

      re: ” My argument from the beginning has not denied the incidents of racism or sexism as he suggests, but that individual incidents of the two, do not translate to structural, systemic, or institutional as put forth by the Barnes & Thornburg report. ”

      If you’re thinking there are “only” one or two, I can see how you have a different view.

      This seems to be a recurring issue with a lot of folks these days who say “one or two” and so “not systemic”. Right?

      Do we respect folks who insist there is no problem because there are “only one or two”?

      1. Carmen Villani Jr Avatar
        Carmen Villani Jr

        Where have I stated one or two? I clearly point out that I didn’t dispute the incidents that were reported. Do you disagree with the statement made by MG Wins that I referenced?

        1. M. Purdy Avatar

          Awful post, Carmen. Just so so silly.

        2. LarrytheG Avatar
          LarrytheG

          I did word it wrong by not acknowledging it was two KINDS of incidents/occurrences rather than 2 incidents.

          But I don’t understand how you can have these things going on over some number of years and continuing and not have evidence that it really is “systemic”.

          What do you require to agree it would be “systemic”?

          Is it a certain number per year or what?

      2. M. Purdy Avatar

        Carmen thinks that two incompatible things can be true at the same time–he doesn’t deny that all the racist and sexist incidents happened, or that the system disproportionately impacts minorities, but even given that, he argues it can’t be ‘systemically racist,’ because people say nice things about the school. He then “defends” the school by attacking it, the administration, calling it “woke,” and going on the radio and writing petitions, cheerleading lawsuits, and getting people riled up online. And he’s “defending” the school, even though he has no dog in this fight (he doesn’t live in VA, has no college aged kids) apart from being the president of the college honor court 50 years ago…awesome, Carmen. It takes special kind of person to make that all work in one’s head.

        1. Carmen Villani Jr Avatar
          Carmen Villani Jr

          Your non-sensical inaccurate description of my comments doesn’t even warrant a counter argument.

          1. M. Purdy Avatar

            Not that you could make one anyway, beyond “I was president of the college honor court 50 years ago, and I still matter!” Love it, Carmen. Keep it coming, big guy.

          2. Carmen Villani Jr Avatar
            Carmen Villani Jr

            Check your history. It was 47 years ago and yet another example of nonsensical.

          3. M. Purdy Avatar

            But who’s counting, right?

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