Why Are Nursing Home Workers Refusing to Get Vaccinated?

An apparent exception to the rule: a nursing home worker in New York gets a vaccination. Credit: Yuki Iwamura/AP and the Washington Post.

by James A. Bacon

A large percentage of nursing home workers in Northern Virginia and the Washington metropolitan area have declined to take the COVID-19 vaccine. Their wariness, reports The Washington Post, arises from “online misinformation about the vaccine” and “historical mistrust of the medical system of which they are a part.”

Forty-eight percent of all COVID-19 related fatalities in Virginia have occurred in long-term care facilities. Despite strict lockdown protocols, the disease enters facilities by piggybacking on employees. Vaccinating nurses and other employees at long-term facilities is critical to stemming the infection of vulnerable elderly residents. 

WaPo cites the example of Trio Healthcare, which operates 11 nursing homes in Virginia. Chief Clinical Officer Melissa Green said employees initially bought into various myths about the vaccine, which included rumors that they had serious side effects and conspiracy theories about government plans to implant microchip in residents.

Then, of course, there’s America’s long history of racism. Writes the Post:

David Grabowski, a Harvard University health policy professor, said the numbers shouldn’t surprise anyone familiar with long-term care facilities, where low wages and poor labor conditions — and earlier missteps fighting the coronavirus pandemic — have created a well of mistrust, especially among the Black and Latino workers who dominate the industry.

“This is a forgotten workforce that hasn’t been treated well for years,” Grabowski said. “We’ve been slow with [personal protective equipment], we’ve been slow with hazard pay, and all of a sudden now, they want to go fast with vaccinations. … There’s good reason they’re so distrustful.”

Another example: The Rev. Derrick DeWitt, director of a nursing home in Baltimore, cited online misinformation and “mistrust of the medical establishment, fueled by historical abuses like the Tuskegee syphilis study and the ongoing lack of access to medical care in Baltimore’s communities of color.”

Ah, Tuskegee again. The Tuskegee syphilis debacle comes up over and over.

The Tuskegee syphilis experiments, began in 1932, were conducted on African-American males. Without their informed consent, men were given placebos as scientists documented the long-term effects of the disease. The study ran until 1972, when it was exposed and shut down. The experiment was a stain upon the U.S. medical research profession, and it deserves its reputation as “the most infamous biomedical research study in U.S. history.” 

But here’s a News flash: The experiment ended 48 years ago. A lot has changed since then, both in terms of race relations and in biomedical ethics. Conducting such an experiment today would be unthinkable.

Why would the memory of Tuskegee fuel African Americans’ mistrust in the healthcare system a half century later? Could the mistrust come from the fact that mainstream media continually reminds African Americans of the Tuskegee abomination?

And speaking of information appearing on the Internet, let’s consider this:

Why do we think, God willing, when we get a vaccine — that is good, works — why do we think the public is gonna line up to be willing to take the injection? We’ve lost so much confidence, the American people, in what’s said [by the Trump administration].

That September quote, reported without critical comment by the media, came from the man who now is president, Joe Biden.

Media outlets like The Washington Post stoke mistrust of the healthcare system  to support its preferred editorial narratives. Should anyone be surprised that concerns about the vaccine are widespread?

Who needs anti-vaxxer theories when you’ve got the mainstream media accomplishing the same goal through the back door?


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112 responses to “Why Are Nursing Home Workers Refusing to Get Vaccinated?”

  1. Steve Haner Avatar
    Steve Haner

    Their choice. Move on to those of us eager and waiting.

    Just heard from my daughter, the practicing NP at VCU, who now will not be getting her second shot as scheduled because of the state move to remove stock from hospitals and move it to local health departments….she’s not front and center with COVID patients, but some other patients…This is all so screwed up.

    1. Matt Adams Avatar
      Matt Adams

      Definitely poor practice, my spousal unit’s second dose was locked in when she received her first.

      I don’t think there is anything job in a hospital or critical care facility that isn’t in one way or another in contact with COVID.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar

        re: ” my spousal unit’s second dose was locked in when she received her first.”

        and one does wonder if this explains some of the undelivered doses that are being complained about? Can’t tell if this is widespread in Va but in some other states, they have given all doses and are hoping they get resupplied for the second dose.

        1. Matt Adams Avatar
          Matt Adams

          Umm no, those doses are accounted for.

  2. LarrytheG Avatar

    So the “mainstream” media in DC, Md, Va, Nc, Ohio and Connecticut are responsible for this?

    Have you considered Social Media where such lies and conspiracy theories are rampant and low education folks suck it up like kool-aid and then SHARE it with their friends?

    I think the days of blaming the MSM need to accept the realitiy cited here in BR and other places that newspaperrs have shrunk and people no longer get their “news” from newspapers but rather from Facebook and other social media.

    As we have seen, just about anyone can claim almost any lie on FB and there is no shortage of willing “believers”…

    Who knew that the “information age” would actually be this reality?

    1. “I think the days of blaming the MSM need to accept the realitiy cited here in BR and other places that newspaperrs have shrunk and people no longer get their “news” from newspapers but rather from Facebook and other social media.”

      Wow. That qualifies as both a run-on sentence AND a non-sequitur.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar

        You’re very welcome. I’m feeling generous today. Want more?

    2. Or the VP stating she didn’t trust the vaccine….

      1. LarrytheG Avatar

        some confusion here – they did not trust any vaccine that Trump was involved in …. once legitimate scientists got involved and Trump moved away – problem solved.

        1. Matt Adams Avatar
          Matt Adams

          Trump was never involved with the vaccine process. He wasn’t pipetting the RNA isn’t vials, nor was he overseeing trials.

          It was plain and simple partisan politics, to which you are now defending.

          1. LarrytheG Avatar

            Trump was not involved in pressuring federal agencies on the vaccine? really?

            https://www.politico.com/news/2021/01/19/fda-trump-pressure-coronavirus-vaccine-460402

          2. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            “President Donald Trump never directly confronted Hahn about his repeated accusations that career scientists were holding back progress to hurt his political chances, but the White House did press for more rapid decisions related to Covid-19 vaccines and therapies, Hahn said. Besides calling to speed up the vaccine race, Trump and surrogates like trade adviser Peter Navarro repeatedly pushed FDA to authorize malaria pill hydroxychloroquine to treat the virus. The FDA did, and revoked the decision months later after the drug was proven ineffective.”

            From your own article, which contradicts your claim.

          3. LarrytheG Avatar

            can’t believe you actually post this: “…but the White House did press for more rapid decisions related to Covid-19 vaccines and therapies, Hahn said. ”

            as “proof” that Trump did not do the very thing…

            there are many reports of him doing this , denying it is just not dealing with reality.

            When people hear that Trump was doing this – they wanted no part of a politically-rushed vaccine…with good reason.

            Thank GOD, the scientists stood their ground, refused to be bullied by this idiot but even then trust was eroded.

          4. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            I quoted your article Larry, I don’t cherry pick things. It fly’s in the face of what you were implying and given cover for. Pressuring and things being rushed vs pressuring and the process following it’s normal route are two different things. It’s also how the all Administrations operate, not just Trump.

            It’s okay, it wasn’t really expected that you’d do anything but offer cover to your own party members.

    3. I didn’t say the mainstream media was responsible. As usual, you are not reading carefully. I suggested that the media might have contributed the problem by stoking and legitimizing mistrust of the vaccine and the healthcare system.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar

        The referenced article talks about NC, Ohio, Connecticut including the Wash/DC area and you are implying that the media in all those places had a role in it – across the board… monolithically….

        But you ignored (and ignore) the role of social media which is more and more the way that many folks now get their “news” as well as lies and conspiracy theories which they think propagage by ‘sharing” with their “friends”.

        The initial distruct of the vaccine was legitimate fears that Trump would violate normal science protocols to get a vaccine delivered. Once his role in that was reduced, the damage was done and getting back trust is going to take time.

        Ironically, Conservatives themselves have been playing “government fails” card for some time now.. on regular display in BR almost every day. That’s not MSM either.

    4. Matt Adams Avatar
      Matt Adams

      Healthcare workers yearly refuse to take the Flu vaccine, that fact proceeded FB and a whole host of other social media items.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar

        got a cite?

        1. Matt Adams Avatar
          Matt Adams

          Do I have a citation? Why yes, yes I do. Are you going to move the goalposts or are you going to accept that you are wrong?

          https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1757177420908000?journalCode=bjib

          https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6468124/

  3. sherlockj Avatar

    Next question: Why are nursing home workers allowed to refuse vaccine and keep their jobs?

    What say you, Dr. Oliver?

    1. Matt Adams Avatar
      Matt Adams

      Unless it was a requirement for employment, you cannot force someone to be vaccinated for anything.

    2. LarrytheG Avatar

      same reason we can’t fire teachers? replacements?

      I assume you’ve been in a nursing home and seen the types of work that workers are expected to do – for apparently low wages. I’m not sure those jobs are in big demand but seems inexplicable to me that they’d turn down the vaccine but can see the managers between a rock and a hard place on staffing.

      1. Matt Adams Avatar
        Matt Adams

        “LarrytheG | January 27, 2021 at 1:28 pm | Reply
        same reason we can’t fire teachers? replacements?

        I assume you’ve been in a nursing home and seen the types of work that workers are expected to do – for apparently low wages. I’m not sure those jobs are in big demand but seems inexplicable to me that they’d turn down the vaccine but can see the managers between a rock and a hard place on staffing.”

        Larry my entire life has lived on the fringe of the Medical field. My mother was a Nurse for 46 years 20+ of those was in Hospice. My wife is a Nurse and has been for the last 10 years currently in the NICU.

        You cannot force anyone to get a vaccine Jacobson v mass doesn’t provide that avenue.

        1. LarrytheG Avatar

          Have you spent any time in an actual nursing home? In the last few years, I’ve been in way more than I ever wanted to be. They are not plesant places to be at lifes end and the workers there do their best but it’s a tough and thankless job that does not pay well.

          I DO accept your cite that backs up your assertion that perhaps 30% do not get flu shots – which is a little suprising given the issues of infected people mixing with uninfected in health care settings and it’s the health care workers you also need to be careful of?

          The flue is not Covid though. And folks in health care settings who refuse the vaccine are a clear threat to others especially older people.

          1. LarrytheG Avatar

            re” goalposts

            talking about medical professionals responsibility is moving the goalposts? geeze.

            medical professionals who cite “freedom” as the reason they don’t want to conduct themselves in a medically necessary manner are irresponsible whether it be a mask or a vaccine or washing hands or any of the standard practices that are usually required as a condition of employment.

            is that’s moving goalposts, so be it.. glad to annoy when you can’t help but engage in fallacies but deflect.

            Take a break or find something else to occupy yourself for awhile.

          2. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            “re” goalposts

            talking about medical professionals responsibility is moving the goalposts? geeze.”

            What are their “professional responsibilities”?

            “medical professionals who cite “freedom” as the reason they don’t want to conduct themselves in a medically necessary manner are irresponsible whether it be a mask or a vaccine or washing hands or any of the standard practices that are usually required as a condition of employment.”

            Where did I make any of those statements?

            “is that’s moving goalposts, so be it.. glad to annoy when you can’t help but engage in fallacies but deflect.
            Take a break or find something else to occupy yourself for awhile.”

            So says the individual who engages in logical fallacies regularly and doesn’t know what they are talking about regularly. Maybe you should take a break and read a book and get an education.

          3. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            Do you know what Hospice is? Traditionally Nursing home nurses make the same as other nurses. Nurses don’t make huge bank, regardless of what you believe.

            “The (sic) flue is not Covid though. And folks in health care settings who refuse the vaccine are a clear threat to others especially older people”

            They are not, as you weren’t even aware of their existence till now. They wear masks all flu season while working and life goes on, they treat and care of patients just the same.

            “I DO accept your cite that backs up your assertion that perhaps 30% do not get flu shots – which is a little suprising given the issues of infected people mixing with uninfected in health care settings and it’s the health care workers you also need to be careful of?”

            I need to be careful of my wife? Larry you’re more likely to get a virus from a toddler than a medical worker who uses the proper procedures when doing their job.

          4. djrippert Avatar

            Nursing homes suck. Even the best are sad places. But unless you are very wealthy … there’s little choice of where to live as you get older.

            Few people save enough to make it through their “golden years” in a warm and caring environment. Affordability means low wages and, too often, neglect and abuse.

            However, anybody working in a congregate nursing home facility that refuses the COVID-19 vaccine should be fired. If they refuse the vaccine and transmit the disease they should be prosecuted.

          5. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            “djrippert | January 27, 2021 at 2:37 pm |
            Nursing homes suck. Even the best are sad places. But unless you are very wealthy … there’s little choice of where to live as you get older.

            Few people save enough to make it through their “golden years” in a warm and caring environment. Affordability means low wages and, too often, neglect and abuse.

            However, anybody working in a congregate nursing home facility that refuses the COVID-19 vaccine should be fired. If they refuse the vaccine and transmit the disease they should be prosecuted.”

            How very authoritarian of you, nothing like arbitrarily firing someone who using their own freedoms. Thoughts like that would you get you sued in a NY minute and you’d be on the street penniless faster than you could blink.

          6. LarrytheG Avatar

            yep.. I know what Hospice is, and have spent many hours in nursing homes as well as with folks who are in hospice.

            in terms of flu in health care settings. I do not recall seeing doctors and nurses in private practice wearing masks prior to Covid so do I assume that 30% of them could have had the flu and infected me because they were not wearing masks?

            The flu is not covid. Any medical provider who does not wear a mask these days is a clear danger to others. Fortunately, members of the medical professions are believers in science and understand the difference between a “right” and a responsibility.

          7. LarrytheG Avatar

            re: ” How very authoritarian of you, nothing like arbitrarily firing someone who using their own freedoms. ”

            I think your “freedom” ends where mine begins. If you engage in activities that can threaten my life, you are accountable.

            In the nursing homes I have been in prior to Covid – most workers did NOT wear masks.

            Are you saying that you ALSO have the “freedom” to not wear a mask as a health care worker?

          8. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            “in terms of flu in health care settings. I do not recall seeing doctors and nurses in private practice wearing masks prior to Covid so do I assume that 30% of them could have had the flu and infected me because they were not wearing masks?”

            So because you didn’t witness it, it didn’t happen?

            “The flu is not covid. Any medical provider who does not wear a mask these days is a clear danger to others. Fortunately, members of the medical professions are believers in science and understand the difference between a “right” and a responsibility.”

            Thus the goalposts have been moved and any further comment is pointless.

          9. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            “I think your “freedom” ends where mine begins. If you engage in activities that can threaten my life, you are accountable.”

            What activities do you surmise are “endangering” your life?

            “In the nursing homes I have been in prior to Covid – most workers did NOT wear masks.”

            So your anecdotal observations are the sum total to knowledge now?

            “Are you saying that you ALSO have the “freedom” to not wear a mask as a health care worker?””

            That’s what is known as a strawman

            As I stated before I would cite my sources as long as you didn’t move the goalposts. That has occurred and therefore you’ve engaged in your standard nom de guerre. I find no more reason to have a conversation with you, simply because you cannot engage in meaningful debate without assigning logical fallacies to people.

  4. Steve Haner Avatar
    Steve Haner

    Their choice. Move on to those of us eager and waiting.

    Just heard from my daughter, the practicing NP at VCU, who now will not be getting her second shot as scheduled because of the state move to remove stock from hospitals and move it to local health departments….she’s not front and center with COVID patients, but some other patients…This is all so screwed up.

    1. Matt Adams Avatar
      Matt Adams

      Definitely poor practice, my spousal unit’s second dose was locked in when she received her first.

      I don’t think there is anything job in a hospital or critical care facility that isn’t in one way or another in contact with COVID.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar

        re: ” my spousal unit’s second dose was locked in when she received her first.”

        and one does wonder if this explains some of the undelivered doses that are being complained about? Can’t tell if this is widespread in Va but in some other states, they have given all doses and are hoping they get resupplied for the second dose.

        1. Matt Adams Avatar
          Matt Adams

          Umm no, those doses are accounted for.

  5. LarrytheG Avatar

    So the “mainstream” media in DC, Md, Va, Nc, Ohio and Connecticut are responsible for this?

    Have you considered Social Media where such lies and conspiracy theories are rampant and low education folks suck it up like kool-aid and then SHARE it with their friends?

    I think the days of blaming the MSM need to accept the realitiy cited here in BR and other places that newspaperrs have shrunk and people no longer get their “news” from newspapers but rather from Facebook and other social media.

    As we have seen, just about anyone can claim almost any lie on FB and there is no shortage of willing “believers”…

    Who knew that the “information age” would actually be this reality?

    1. Or the VP stating she didn’t trust the vaccine….

      1. LarrytheG Avatar

        some confusion here – they did not trust any vaccine that Trump was involved in …. once legitimate scientists got involved and Trump moved away – problem solved.

        1. Matt Adams Avatar
          Matt Adams

          Trump was never involved with the vaccine process. He wasn’t pipetting the RNA isn’t vials, nor was he overseeing trials.

          It was plain and simple partisan politics, to which you are now defending.

          1. LarrytheG Avatar

            Trump was not involved in pressuring federal agencies on the vaccine? really?

            https://www.politico.com/news/2021/01/19/fda-trump-pressure-coronavirus-vaccine-460402

          2. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            “President Donald Trump never directly confronted Hahn about his repeated accusations that career scientists were holding back progress to hurt his political chances, but the White House did press for more rapid decisions related to Covid-19 vaccines and therapies, Hahn said. Besides calling to speed up the vaccine race, Trump and surrogates like trade adviser Peter Navarro repeatedly pushed FDA to authorize malaria pill hydroxychloroquine to treat the virus. The FDA did, and revoked the decision months later after the drug was proven ineffective.”

            From your own article, which contradicts your claim.

          3. LarrytheG Avatar

            can’t believe you actually post this: “…but the White House did press for more rapid decisions related to Covid-19 vaccines and therapies, Hahn said. ”

            as “proof” that Trump did not do the very thing…

            there are many reports of him doing this , denying it is just not dealing with reality.

            When people hear that Trump was doing this – they wanted no part of a politically-rushed vaccine…with good reason.

            Thank GOD, the scientists stood their ground, refused to be bullied by this idiot but even then trust was eroded.

          4. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            I quoted your article Larry, I don’t cherry pick things. It fly’s in the face of what you were implying and given cover for. Pressuring and things being rushed vs pressuring and the process following it’s normal route are two different things. It’s also how the all Administrations operate, not just Trump.

            It’s okay, it wasn’t really expected that you’d do anything but offer cover to your own party members.

    2. I didn’t say the mainstream media was responsible. As usual, you are not reading carefully. I suggested that the media might have contributed the problem by stoking and legitimizing mistrust of the vaccine and the healthcare system.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar

        The referenced article talks about NC, Ohio, Connecticut including the Wash/DC area and you are implying that the media in all those places had a role in it – across the board… monolithically….

        But you ignored (and ignore) the role of social media which is more and more the way that many folks now get their “news” as well as lies and conspiracy theories which they think propagage by ‘sharing” with their “friends”.

        The initial distruct of the vaccine was legitimate fears that Trump would violate normal science protocols to get a vaccine delivered. Once his role in that was reduced, the damage was done and getting back trust is going to take time.

        Ironically, Conservatives themselves have been playing “government fails” card for some time now.. on regular display in BR almost every day. That’s not MSM either.

    3. Matt Adams Avatar
      Matt Adams

      Healthcare workers yearly refuse to take the Flu vaccine, that fact proceeded FB and a whole host of other social media items.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar

        got a cite?

        1. Matt Adams Avatar
          Matt Adams

          Do I have a citation? Why yes, yes I do. Are you going to move the goalposts or are you going to accept that you are wrong?

          https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1757177420908000?journalCode=bjib

          https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6468124/

    4. “I think the days of blaming the MSM need to accept the realitiy cited here in BR and other places that newspaperrs have shrunk and people no longer get their “news” from newspapers but rather from Facebook and other social media.”

      Wow. That qualifies as both a run-on sentence AND a non-sequitur.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar

        You’re very welcome. I’m feeling generous today. Want more?

  6. sherlockj Avatar

    Next question: Why are nursing home workers allowed to refuse vaccine and keep their jobs?

    What say you, Dr. Oliver?

    1. Matt Adams Avatar
      Matt Adams

      Unless it was a requirement for employment, you cannot force someone to be vaccinated for anything.

    2. LarrytheG Avatar

      same reason we can’t fire teachers? replacements?

      I assume you’ve been in a nursing home and seen the types of work that workers are expected to do – for apparently low wages. I’m not sure those jobs are in big demand but seems inexplicable to me that they’d turn down the vaccine but can see the managers between a rock and a hard place on staffing.

      1. Matt Adams Avatar
        Matt Adams

        “LarrytheG | January 27, 2021 at 1:28 pm | Reply
        same reason we can’t fire teachers? replacements?

        I assume you’ve been in a nursing home and seen the types of work that workers are expected to do – for apparently low wages. I’m not sure those jobs are in big demand but seems inexplicable to me that they’d turn down the vaccine but can see the managers between a rock and a hard place on staffing.”

        Larry my entire life has lived on the fringe of the Medical field. My mother was a Nurse for 46 years 20+ of those was in Hospice. My wife is a Nurse and has been for the last 10 years currently in the NICU.

        You cannot force anyone to get a vaccine Jacobson v mass doesn’t provide that avenue.

        1. LarrytheG Avatar

          Have you spent any time in an actual nursing home? In the last few years, I’ve been in way more than I ever wanted to be. They are not plesant places to be at lifes end and the workers there do their best but it’s a tough and thankless job that does not pay well.

          I DO accept your cite that backs up your assertion that perhaps 30% do not get flu shots – which is a little suprising given the issues of infected people mixing with uninfected in health care settings and it’s the health care workers you also need to be careful of?

          The flue is not Covid though. And folks in health care settings who refuse the vaccine are a clear threat to others especially older people.

          1. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            Do you know what Hospice is? Traditionally Nursing home nurses make the same as other nurses. Nurses don’t make huge bank, regardless of what you believe.

            “The (sic) flue is not Covid though. And folks in health care settings who refuse the vaccine are a clear threat to others especially older people”

            They are not, as you weren’t even aware of their existence till now. They wear masks all flu season while working and life goes on, they treat and care of patients just the same.

            “I DO accept your cite that backs up your assertion that perhaps 30% do not get flu shots – which is a little suprising given the issues of infected people mixing with uninfected in health care settings and it’s the health care workers you also need to be careful of?”

            I need to be careful of my wife? Larry you’re more likely to get a virus from a toddler than a medical worker who uses the proper procedures when doing their job.

          2. djrippert Avatar

            Nursing homes suck. Even the best are sad places. But unless you are very wealthy … there’s little choice of where to live as you get older.

            Few people save enough to make it through their “golden years” in a warm and caring environment. Affordability means low wages and, too often, neglect and abuse.

            However, anybody working in a congregate nursing home facility that refuses the COVID-19 vaccine should be fired. If they refuse the vaccine and transmit the disease they should be prosecuted.

          3. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            “djrippert | January 27, 2021 at 2:37 pm |
            Nursing homes suck. Even the best are sad places. But unless you are very wealthy … there’s little choice of where to live as you get older.

            Few people save enough to make it through their “golden years” in a warm and caring environment. Affordability means low wages and, too often, neglect and abuse.

            However, anybody working in a congregate nursing home facility that refuses the COVID-19 vaccine should be fired. If they refuse the vaccine and transmit the disease they should be prosecuted.”

            How very authoritarian of you, nothing like arbitrarily firing someone who using their own freedoms. Thoughts like that would you get you sued in a NY minute and you’d be on the street penniless faster than you could blink.

          4. LarrytheG Avatar

            yep.. I know what Hospice is, and have spent many hours in nursing homes as well as with folks who are in hospice.

            in terms of flu in health care settings. I do not recall seeing doctors and nurses in private practice wearing masks prior to Covid so do I assume that 30% of them could have had the flu and infected me because they were not wearing masks?

            The flu is not covid. Any medical provider who does not wear a mask these days is a clear danger to others. Fortunately, members of the medical professions are believers in science and understand the difference between a “right” and a responsibility.

          5. LarrytheG Avatar

            re: ” How very authoritarian of you, nothing like arbitrarily firing someone who using their own freedoms. ”

            I think your “freedom” ends where mine begins. If you engage in activities that can threaten my life, you are accountable.

            In the nursing homes I have been in prior to Covid – most workers did NOT wear masks.

            Are you saying that you ALSO have the “freedom” to not wear a mask as a health care worker?

          6. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            “in terms of flu in health care settings. I do not recall seeing doctors and nurses in private practice wearing masks prior to Covid so do I assume that 30% of them could have had the flu and infected me because they were not wearing masks?”

            So because you didn’t witness it, it didn’t happen?

            “The flu is not covid. Any medical provider who does not wear a mask these days is a clear danger to others. Fortunately, members of the medical professions are believers in science and understand the difference between a “right” and a responsibility.”

            Thus the goalposts have been moved and any further comment is pointless.

          7. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            “I think your “freedom” ends where mine begins. If you engage in activities that can threaten my life, you are accountable.”

            What activities do you surmise are “endangering” your life?

            “In the nursing homes I have been in prior to Covid – most workers did NOT wear masks.”

            So your anecdotal observations are the sum total to knowledge now?

            “Are you saying that you ALSO have the “freedom” to not wear a mask as a health care worker?””

            That’s what is known as a strawman

            As I stated before I would cite my sources as long as you didn’t move the goalposts. That has occurred and therefore you’ve engaged in your standard nom de guerre. I find no more reason to have a conversation with you, simply because you cannot engage in meaningful debate without assigning logical fallacies to people.

          8. LarrytheG Avatar

            re” goalposts

            talking about medical professionals responsibility is moving the goalposts? geeze.

            medical professionals who cite “freedom” as the reason they don’t want to conduct themselves in a medically necessary manner are irresponsible whether it be a mask or a vaccine or washing hands or any of the standard practices that are usually required as a condition of employment.

            is that’s moving goalposts, so be it.. glad to annoy when you can’t help but engage in fallacies but deflect.

            Take a break or find something else to occupy yourself for awhile.

          9. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            “re” goalposts

            talking about medical professionals responsibility is moving the goalposts? geeze.”

            What are their “professional responsibilities”?

            “medical professionals who cite “freedom” as the reason they don’t want to conduct themselves in a medically necessary manner are irresponsible whether it be a mask or a vaccine or washing hands or any of the standard practices that are usually required as a condition of employment.”

            Where did I make any of those statements?

            “is that’s moving goalposts, so be it.. glad to annoy when you can’t help but engage in fallacies but deflect.
            Take a break or find something else to occupy yourself for awhile.”

            So says the individual who engages in logical fallacies regularly and doesn’t know what they are talking about regularly. Maybe you should take a break and read a book and get an education.

  7. dalhommer Avatar

    Having previously been a Virginia state leader for medical freedom for years with a mission to raise awareness of the risks of vaccines, I can tell you why I think they are:

    They’re on the front lines and they see the injuries following vaccines. I have personally spoken with nurses who have stated such. I was also in groups of nurses who shared facts and stories. They are often bullied and restricted from filing or helping people file VAERS (Vaccine Adverse Events Reporting System) reports.

    They’re aware that the pharmaceutical industry cannot be sued for injuries and deaths from vaccines, including Covid.

    They’re aware of the kangaroo vaccine court where prior verdicts and expert witnesses in cases are not allowed to be used as evidence.

    So far 181 deaths have been reported on the VAERS system from the Covid vaccine and now the system is down. FYI, HHS has concluded that “fewer than 1% of vaccine injuries” are reported to VAERS and the experts say the government’s reporting system is “broken.”

    They know the side effects of these vaccines. Just search for the Moderna Fact Sheet and Pfizer Fact Sheet. They can be found through the FDA website.

    They’re aware of how dangerous this particular vaccine is:

    Here’s some articles of deaths and injuries already, including the links to information provided above (unfortunately the links didn’t stay with the articles):

    COVID19 and the Experimental Vaccines
    https://www.americasfrontlinedoctors.com/vaccines/

    James Lyons-Weiler — Pathogenic Priming: Coronavirus Vaccine Safety Warning
    https://dryburgh.com/james-lyons-weiler-coronavirus-vaccine-safety-warning/

    Discrepancies in Moderna’s FDA Report Demand Answers
    https://childrenshealthdefense.org/defender/discrepancies-modernas-fda-report-demand-answers/

    Healthcare Worker Dies 4 Days After Second Pfizer Shot
    https://childrenshealthdefense.org/defender/healthcare-worker-dies-4-days-after-second-pfizer-shot/?utm_source=salsa&eType=EmailBlastContent&eId=88702226-40f0-46ed-9837-7516aff85cc2

    Caution Needed in Using mRNA-based Vaccines to Prevent Unknown Risks, Including Death
    https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202101/1213842.shtm

    23 Die in Norway after Receiving Pfizer Covid-19 Vaccine: Officials
    https://nypost.com/2021/01/15/23-die-in-norway-after-receiving-pfizer-covid-19-vaccine/

    Covid-19 Coronavirus Vaccine Could Kill 8-16 Times More Senior Americans Compared to No Vaccine at All
    https://www.lewrockwell.com/2020/03/bill-sardi/covid-19-coronavirus-vaccine-could-kill-8-16-tim

    Suspicions Grow That Nanoparticles in Pfizer’s Covid-19 Vaccine Trigger Rare Allergic Reactions
    https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/12/suspicions-grow-nanoparticles-pfizer-s-covid-19-vaccine-trigger-rare-allergic-reactions

    Peter Doshi: Pfizer and Moderna’s “95% Effective” Vaccines – We Need More Details and the Raw Data
    https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2021/01/04/peter-doshi-pfizer-and-modernas-95-effective-vaccines-we-need-more-details-and-the-raw-data/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+bmj/blogs+(Latest+BMJ+blogs)&g=w_bmj-com

    FDA: Death, Heart Attacks, Stroke, Blood Disorders all Possible Side Effects of Covid Vaccine
    https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/fda-death-heart-attacks-stroke-blood-disorders-all-possible-side-effects-of-covid-vaccine

    Here’s a website dedicated to news surrounding the vaccines, including Covid
    https://vaccinedeaths.com

    1. sherlockj Avatar

      It was inevitable that this discussion would draw a professional anti-vax response. Enjoy your freedom, just don’t work in a nursing home where the nation’s most vulnerable people have no choice but to depend on you for the activities of daily living. Do we have a deal?

      1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
        Nancy_Naive

        Und, down ze rabbit hole ve go…

      2. Nancy_Naive Avatar
        Nancy_Naive

        Ooooh, und dat ist ein deeep rabbit hole. It goes on und on.

    2. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
      James Wyatt Whitehead V

      Thank you very enlightening. I am concerned for my wife. History of seizures. Very concerning.

      1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
        Nancy_Naive

        The most common rare reaction is GBS, and can range from tingling in the extremities to paralysis. It usually resolves quickly, and is reported in all vaccines at around 1 in 100,000. So, the expected number with Cov2 vaccine is ~3000 for the entire country.

        Please do not work yourself up over an anti-vaxxer’s rabbit chase.

        My personal favorite is shingles. 1 in 3 unvaccinated people over 50 will develop shingles.

        The vaccine has a side effect that 1 in 3 people who take the vaccine will develop a mild case of shingles. WAIT A MINUTE!

  8. djrippert Avatar

    @MattAdams

    Sign in many restaurant bathrooms … “employees must wash hands”.

    Sensible precaution.

    You work in a nursing home and don’t want to get vaccinated – find another job.

    You work as a truck driver and like to drink at lunch – find another job.

    You hold a security clearance but have to borrow money to pay off your gambling debts – find another job.

    Endangering the lives of the people where you work is unacceptable.

    1. Matt Adams Avatar
      Matt Adams

      Humm so you’re saying that being inoculated with a brand new vaccine == to washing hands? What if that Nurse or Doctor have a history of anaphylaxes, do they not qualify under the world according to DJ?

      Drinking and Driving is against the law on multiple fronts including the common carrier act.

      “You hold a security clearance but have to borrow money to pay off your gambling debts – find another job.”

      That’s not a stipulation baring someone from obtaining an SC, as long as it’s disclosed you’re okay.

      “Endangering the lives of the people where you work is unacceptable.”

      They are endangering peoples lives by not getting a vaccine? Interesting, so for the last 10 months they were endangering peoples lives and therefore shouldn’t be employed?

      Caustic behavior and toxic leadership endanger peoples lives regularly, yet I don’t see you on your soapbox moaning about them. Spare us your pious indignation and have a f’n Snickers.

  9. djrippert Avatar

    @MattAdams

    Sign in many restaurant bathrooms … “employees must wash hands”.

    Sensible precaution.

    You work in a nursing home and don’t want to get vaccinated – find another job.

    You work as a truck driver and like to drink at lunch – find another job.

    You hold a security clearance but have to borrow money to pay off your gambling debts – find another job.

    Endangering the lives of the people where you work is unacceptable.

    1. Matt Adams Avatar
      Matt Adams

      Humm so you’re saying that being inoculated with a brand new vaccine == to washing hands? What if that Nurse or Doctor have a history of anaphylaxes, do they not qualify under the world according to DJ?

      Drinking and Driving is against the law on multiple fronts including the common carrier act.

      “You hold a security clearance but have to borrow money to pay off your gambling debts – find another job.”

      That’s not a stipulation baring someone from obtaining an SC, as long as it’s disclosed you’re okay.

      “Endangering the lives of the people where you work is unacceptable.”

      They are endangering peoples lives by not getting a vaccine? Interesting, so for the last 10 months they were endangering peoples lives and therefore shouldn’t be employed?

      Caustic behavior and toxic leadership endanger peoples lives regularly, yet I don’t see you on your soapbox moaning about them. Spare us your pious indignation and have a f’n Snickers.

  10. dalhommer Avatar

    Having previously been a Virginia state leader for medical freedom for years with a mission to raise awareness of the risks of vaccines, I can tell you why I think they are:

    They’re on the front lines and they see the injuries following vaccines. I have personally spoken with nurses who have stated such. I was also in groups of nurses who shared facts and stories. They are often bullied and restricted from filing or helping people file VAERS (Vaccine Adverse Events Reporting System) reports.

    They’re aware that the pharmaceutical industry cannot be sued for injuries and deaths from vaccines, including Covid.

    They’re aware of the kangaroo vaccine court where prior verdicts and expert witnesses in cases are not allowed to be used as evidence.

    So far 181 deaths have been reported on the VAERS system from the Covid vaccine and now the system is down. FYI, HHS has concluded that “fewer than 1% of vaccine injuries” are reported to VAERS and the experts say the government’s reporting system is “broken.”

    They know the side effects of these vaccines. Just search for the Moderna Fact Sheet and Pfizer Fact Sheet. They can be found through the FDA website.

    They’re aware of how dangerous this particular vaccine is:

    Here’s some articles of deaths and injuries already, including the links to information provided above (unfortunately the links didn’t stay with the articles):

    COVID19 and the Experimental Vaccines
    https://www.americasfrontlinedoctors.com/vaccines/

    James Lyons-Weiler — Pathogenic Priming: Coronavirus Vaccine Safety Warning
    https://dryburgh.com/james-lyons-weiler-coronavirus-vaccine-safety-warning/

    Discrepancies in Moderna’s FDA Report Demand Answers
    https://childrenshealthdefense.org/defender/discrepancies-modernas-fda-report-demand-answers/

    Healthcare Worker Dies 4 Days After Second Pfizer Shot
    https://childrenshealthdefense.org/defender/healthcare-worker-dies-4-days-after-second-pfizer-shot/?utm_source=salsa&eType=EmailBlastContent&eId=88702226-40f0-46ed-9837-7516aff85cc2

    Caution Needed in Using mRNA-based Vaccines to Prevent Unknown Risks, Including Death
    https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202101/1213842.shtm

    23 Die in Norway after Receiving Pfizer Covid-19 Vaccine: Officials
    https://nypost.com/2021/01/15/23-die-in-norway-after-receiving-pfizer-covid-19-vaccine/

    Covid-19 Coronavirus Vaccine Could Kill 8-16 Times More Senior Americans Compared to No Vaccine at All
    https://www.lewrockwell.com/2020/03/bill-sardi/covid-19-coronavirus-vaccine-could-kill-8-16-tim

    Suspicions Grow That Nanoparticles in Pfizer’s Covid-19 Vaccine Trigger Rare Allergic Reactions
    https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/12/suspicions-grow-nanoparticles-pfizer-s-covid-19-vaccine-trigger-rare-allergic-reactions

    Peter Doshi: Pfizer and Moderna’s “95% Effective” Vaccines – We Need More Details and the Raw Data
    https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2021/01/04/peter-doshi-pfizer-and-modernas-95-effective-vaccines-we-need-more-details-and-the-raw-data/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+bmj/blogs+(Latest+BMJ+blogs)&g=w_bmj-com

    FDA: Death, Heart Attacks, Stroke, Blood Disorders all Possible Side Effects of Covid Vaccine
    https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/fda-death-heart-attacks-stroke-blood-disorders-all-possible-side-effects-of-covid-vaccine

    Here’s a website dedicated to news surrounding the vaccines, including Covid
    https://vaccinedeaths.com

    1. sherlockj Avatar

      It was inevitable that this discussion would draw a professional anti-vax response. Enjoy your freedom, just don’t work in a nursing home where the nation’s most vulnerable people have no choice but to depend on you for the activities of daily living. Do we have a deal?

      1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
        Nancy_Naive

        Und, down ze rabbit hole ve go…

      2. Nancy_Naive Avatar
        Nancy_Naive

        Ooooh, und dat ist ein deeep rabbit hole. It goes on und on.

    2. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
      James Wyatt Whitehead V

      Thank you very enlightening. I am concerned for my wife. History of seizures. Very concerning.

      1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
        Nancy_Naive

        The most common rare reaction is GBS, and can range from tingling in the extremities to paralysis. It usually resolves quickly, and is reported in all vaccines at around 1 in 100,000. So, the expected number with Cov2 vaccine is ~3000 for the entire country.

        Please do not work yourself up over an anti-vaxxer’s rabbit chase.

        My personal favorite is shingles. 1 in 3 unvaccinated people over 50 will develop shingles.

        The vaccine has a side effect that 1 in 3 people who take the vaccine will develop a mild case of shingles. WAIT A MINUTE!

    1. LarrytheG Avatar

      so this ” “Studies Showed People Better Off Catching Virus and Recovering!” does not appear to be on the businesswire.com site.

      and if I google it – it comes up with this site:

      https://welovetrump.com/2021/01/27/merck-stops-covid-vaccine-studies-showed-people-better-off-catching-virus-and-recovering/

  11. dalhommer Avatar

    You know what? I went to BusinessWire.com and searched “Merck Discontinues Development …,” and, viola, it popped up.

    Then I search on DuckDuckGo “Merck discontinues covid,” and several articles from Merck, NBCNews, The Wall Street Journal, Daily Express, Pharmaceutical Business Review, Forbes, Finance.yahoo, et cetera.

    1. LarrytheG Avatar

      which sites say this: ” ” “Studies Showed People Better Off Catching Virus and Recovering!”

  12. dalhommer Avatar

    Fair enough that those exact words don’t appear. However the article states, “This decision follows Merck’s review of findings from Phase 1 clinical studies for the vaccines. In these studies, both V590 and V591 were generally well tolerated, but the immune responses were inferior to those seen following natural infection and those reported for other SARS-CoV-2/COVID-19 vaccines.” The “immune responses were inferior to those seen following natural infection” literally means that getting the illness and recovering from the disease is superior than the vaccine.

    1. LarrytheG Avatar

      Aren’t those words are very misleading bordering on misinformation? It actually appears to have come from a LoveTrump website and added to the businesswire headline.

      Merck is not Moderna. They were in the race to make the vaccine but dropped out – and had nothing to do with the vaccines effectiveness.

      It’s possible they may be tasked with producing Modernas vaccine through the defense production act.

  13. dalhommer Avatar

    And, by the way, it’s called primary (failure of vaccine to work in person) and secondary (failure of adequacy of vaccine in person) failure of immunization, which is exactly why people get the disease they’ve been vaccinated against. Which should make more question why the short version vaccine fact sheet doesn’t give full information. Full information would include the excipients, the disclosure that vaccine companies do their own studies (fox in the henhouse), full disclosure of the reactions (just look at the actual vaccine inserts), and the fact that not one vaccine has been studied against a placebo (see the lawsuits in ICanDecide.org). So when one is considering whether to get a vaccine, I would encourage them to look at the Vaccine Adverse Events Reporting System (VAERS) and the 1% of events actually reported to conduct a benefit-risk analysis whether the disease is worse than the vaccine.

    1. LarrytheG Avatar

      so this ” “Studies Showed People Better Off Catching Virus and Recovering!” does not appear to be on the businesswire.com site.

      and if I google it – it comes up with this site:

      https://welovetrump.com/2021/01/27/merck-stops-covid-vaccine-studies-showed-people-better-off-catching-virus-and-recovering/

  14. dalhommer Avatar

    You know what? I went to BusinessWire.com and searched “Merck Discontinues Development …,” and, viola, it popped up.

    Then I search on DuckDuckGo “Merck discontinues covid,” and several articles from Merck, NBCNews, The Wall Street Journal, Daily Express, Pharmaceutical Business Review, Forbes, Finance.yahoo, et cetera.

    1. LarrytheG Avatar

      which sites say this: ” ” “Studies Showed People Better Off Catching Virus and Recovering!”

  15. dalhommer Avatar

    Fair enough that those exact words don’t appear. However the article states, “This decision follows Merck’s review of findings from Phase 1 clinical studies for the vaccines. In these studies, both V590 and V591 were generally well tolerated, but the immune responses were inferior to those seen following natural infection and those reported for other SARS-CoV-2/COVID-19 vaccines.” The “immune responses were inferior to those seen following natural infection” literally means that getting the illness and recovering from the disease is superior than the vaccine.

    1. LarrytheG Avatar

      Aren’t those words are very misleading bordering on misinformation? It actually appears to have come from a LoveTrump website and added to the businesswire headline.

      Merck is not Moderna. They were in the race to make the vaccine but dropped out – and had nothing to do with the vaccines effectiveness.

      It’s possible they may be tasked with producing Modernas vaccine through the defense production act.

  16. dalhommer Avatar

    And, by the way, it’s called primary (failure of vaccine to work in person) and secondary (failure of adequacy of vaccine in person) failure of immunization, which is exactly why people get the disease they’ve been vaccinated against. Which should make more question why the short version vaccine fact sheet doesn’t give full information. Full information would include the excipients, the disclosure that vaccine companies do their own studies (fox in the henhouse), full disclosure of the reactions (just look at the actual vaccine inserts), and the fact that not one vaccine has been studied against a placebo (see the lawsuits in ICanDecide.org). So when one is considering whether to get a vaccine, I would encourage them to look at the Vaccine Adverse Events Reporting System (VAERS) and the 1% of events actually reported to conduct a benefit-risk analysis whether the disease is worse than the vaccine.

    1. LarrytheG Avatar

      So what I do not understand about the views about the side-effects of vaccinations is this:

      Is there another choice beyond taking the shot or not taking the shot and the relative risk involved of not taking the shot verses taking the shot?

      In other words – you really don’t have a 3rd choice of not doing the shot or not and avoiding risk all together. Your choice is one or the other and accepts the risks of each choice.

      And it just seems clear that even though there are risks with effects from the shot that those risks are far, far less, that what could happen to you from not getting the shot.

      You can’t avoid the risks – but you can choose which path has lower chances of harm.

      So why choose the path that has higher risks of harm?

      this quandary involves other choice we make also but just on vaccinations… not easy to understand the thinking of those who choose to not get the shot even though the risks of harm seem higher.

      1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
        Nancy_Naive

        Larry, the first lines of his “HCQ works” (aka “Trump was right”) study announcement…
        “A new study out of New Jersey shows that the controversial antimalarial drug hydroxychloroquine could help people with mild symptoms of COVID-19.”

        Mild symptoms. Yeah, and orange juice too.

    1. LarrytheG Avatar

      So what I do not understand about the views about the side-effects of vaccinations is this:

      Is there another choice beyond taking the shot or not taking the shot and the relative risk involved of not taking the shot verses taking the shot?

      In other words – you really don’t have a 3rd choice of not doing the shot or not and avoiding risk all together. Your choice is one or the other and accepts the risks of each choice.

      And it just seems clear that even though there are risks with effects from the shot that those risks are far, far less, that what could happen to you from not getting the shot.

      You can’t avoid the risks – but you can choose which path has lower chances of harm.

      So why choose the path that has higher risks of harm?

      this quandary involves other choice we make also but just on vaccinations… not easy to understand the thinking of those who choose to not get the shot even though the risks of harm seem higher.

      1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
        Nancy_Naive

        Larry, the first lines of his “HCQ works” (aka “Trump was right”) study announcement…
        “A new study out of New Jersey shows that the controversial antimalarial drug hydroxychloroquine could help people with mild symptoms of COVID-19.”

        Mild symptoms. Yeah, and orange juice too.

  17. dalhommer Avatar

    That’s exactly right – there are risks either way. One has to decide which consequence they’re willing to live with. However, one needs facts in order to reach that determination.

    Here’s some facts to consider:

    America’s Frontline Doctors outline treatment protocols for treating covid. They have information worth reading about covid and its vaccine:
    https://www.americasfrontlinedoctors.com/treatment-protocols/

    Here’s a website that has 100,000 doctors and medical professional against the Covid-19 vaccine: https://freedomman.org/doctors-unite-against-covid-19-vaccine/

    Here’s another website for you to investigate information regarding covid: https://www.icandecide.org/covid/

    Here’s some food for thought:

    In 2014 Dr. William Thompson, the lead CDC scientist, in essence stated that he and four fellow co-authors sliced and diced data to rid a study’s link of the MMR vaccine to autism. After they couldn’t get rid of the link of the MMR vaccine and autism, they threw the study away. He felt guilty so he kept the information, and the information has since been given to Congressman Posey, which Congress refused to hear. https://www.vaccine101.ca/post/cdc-whistleblower-dr-william-thompson

    The result of this is that Del Bigtree (Emmy-winning producer of the Doctors’ daytime talk show) and later Robert F. Kennedy, Jr., now coordinate in lawsuits and exposing the fraud behind vaccines. What astonished both Bigtree and Kennedy was the fact that the news refused to report on stories surrounding vaccines. For instance, the mantra “vaccines are safe and effective” is what we hear, and many parrot that information. However, that’s simply not true. We know this due to
    – Vaccines have primary and secondary failures (not effective as they say)
    – There’s a Vaccine Adverse Events Reporting System indicating there are alleged injuries
    – There’s a kangaroo “vaccine court that has adjudicated more than 16,000 petitions and dismissed two-thirds of them.” https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/04/vaccines-trial-us-court-separates-fact-fiction
    – In 1986 there were 4 vaccine manufacturers. They were getting pants sued off of them, so they got Congress to sign the National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act of 1986 which limited the vaccine manufacturers’ liability. There was a National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program instituted. The 2011 Bruesewitz v. Wyeth case was the death knell in the coffin of litigation against vaccine product defects.
    – The pharmaceutical industry has been fined heavily (but not heavy enough to stop their behavior) in criminal and civil penalties, and this is information through 2017 https://www.citizen.org/wp-content/uploads/2408.pdf
    – Here’s a court case: “Stipulated Order Proving CDC Has No Studies To Support Claim That Vaccines Given in First 6 Months of Life Do Not Cause Autism.” The CDC had taken down their claim that “vaccines do not cause autism.” They put the statement back up and ICAN is taking action again. https://www.icandecide.org/ican_lawsuits/stipulated-order-proving-cdc-has-no-studies-to-support-claim-that-vaccines-given-in-first-6-months-of-life-do-not-cause-autism/
    – Here’s the complaint that HHS was not in compliance with the 1986 Act, namely not one vaccine has been studied against a placebo (gold standard) and some only studied for days, in addition to severing their cooperation with the HarvardPilgrim program to assure safer vaccines https://www.icandecide.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/ICAN-HHS-Notice-1.pdf
    – Stipulated Order Confirming Non-Compliance With 42 USC 300AA-27C https://www.icandecide.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/Stipulated-Order-copy-1.pdf. https://www.icandecide.org/ican_lawsuits/stipulated-order-showing-that-nih-and-hrsa-have-not-acted-in-their-duties-regarding-vaccine-safety/
    — How Aluminum Adjuvants in Vaccines can Cause Autism https://www.icandecide.org/ican_white_papers/how-aluminum-adjuvants-in-vaccines-can-cause-autism/

    Here are some other websites that break down vaccine information in digestible form:
    – NVIC.org
    – vaxxter.com
    – childrenshealthdefense.org
    – icandecide.org
    https://w3.blaylockwellness.com/Health/BWR/LP/BWR-Vaccines

    So why hasn’t the news reported this? Good question. The same question Bigtree and Kennedy asked. Kennedy was told outright that the news won’t report this and that any newscaster who touched it could get fired. He has gotten on a few times, but it’s rare.

    So what do we know:

    – The pharmaceutical industry spends an obscene amount of money on advertising. https://www.napolilaw.com/article/pharmaceutical-industry-spends-shocking-amount-advertising/
    – The global vaccine market revenues 60 billion by 2020 https://www.statista.com/statistics/265102/revenues-in-the-global-vaccine-market/
    – “Big Pharma Owns the Corporate Media, But Americans are Waking up and Fighting Back.” https://trofire.com/2017/04/11/big-pharma-owns-corporate-media-americans-waking-fighting-back/
    https://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/2019/04/27/how-public-vaccine-policy-violates-our-right-to-informed-consent/
    – The corruption is overwhelming:
    https://www.huffpost.com/entry/spider-bites-cdc-ethics-c_b_12525012
    https://childrenshealthdefense.org/news/why-you-cant-trust-the-cdc-on-vaccines/
    https://childrenshealthdefense.org/?s=cdc+corrupt

    The sum for me:
    The news media is not reporting on the corruption as it should and it does not provide for an opposing narrative. I spent years researching and reading the effects of vaccines. I’ve spoken with many people who were pro-vaccine. It took injury or death of a loved one to obtain the status of “anti-vaxxer.” The truth is most “anti-vaxxers” were once pro-vaccine. I will repeat RFK, Jr., statement, When people question the safety of mercury in fish, they are not called anti-fish.
    There are doctors and scientists MSM won’t let speak to the dangers of vaccines and other treatment protocols. In fact, the media uses their typical “conspiracy theory” and mocking to shut down any open debate. They know people don’t like to be criticized. Labeling and criticizing shuts people up from questioning, which is why many doctors told Bigtree that they will not come forward with the dangers they have seen from vaccines.

    We no longer have a media doing their part of investigating, which is exactly why I don’t trust MSM.

    1. LarrytheG Avatar

      re: ” The news media is not reporting on the corruption as it should and it does not provide for an opposing narrative. I spent years researching and reading the effects of vaccines”

      so it’s a conspiracy to keep the facts from the public, and they are being fooled into thinking that not taking the vaccine is safer than taking it?

      millions of people are being deceived about it?

  18. dalhommer Avatar

    That’s exactly right – there are risks either way. One has to decide which consequence they’re willing to live with. However, one needs facts in order to reach that determination.

    Here’s some facts to consider:

    America’s Frontline Doctors outline treatment protocols for treating covid. They have information worth reading about covid and its vaccine:
    https://www.americasfrontlinedoctors.com/treatment-protocols/

    Here’s a website that has 100,000 doctors and medical professional against the Covid-19 vaccine: https://freedomman.org/doctors-unite-against-covid-19-vaccine/

    Here’s another website for you to investigate information regarding covid: https://www.icandecide.org/covid/

    Here’s some food for thought:

    In 2014 Dr. William Thompson, the lead CDC scientist, in essence stated that he and four fellow co-authors sliced and diced data to rid a study’s link of the MMR vaccine to autism. After they couldn’t get rid of the link of the MMR vaccine and autism, they threw the study away. He felt guilty so he kept the information, and the information has since been given to Congressman Posey, which Congress refused to hear. https://www.vaccine101.ca/post/cdc-whistleblower-dr-william-thompson

    The result of this is that Del Bigtree (Emmy-winning producer of the Doctors’ daytime talk show) and later Robert F. Kennedy, Jr., now coordinate in lawsuits and exposing the fraud behind vaccines. What astonished both Bigtree and Kennedy was the fact that the news refused to report on stories surrounding vaccines. For instance, the mantra “vaccines are safe and effective” is what we hear, and many parrot that information. However, that’s simply not true. We know this due to
    – Vaccines have primary and secondary failures (not effective as they say)
    – There’s a Vaccine Adverse Events Reporting System indicating there are alleged injuries
    – There’s a kangaroo “vaccine court that has adjudicated more than 16,000 petitions and dismissed two-thirds of them.” https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/04/vaccines-trial-us-court-separates-fact-fiction
    – In 1986 there were 4 vaccine manufacturers. They were getting pants sued off of them, so they got Congress to sign the National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act of 1986 which limited the vaccine manufacturers’ liability. There was a National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program instituted. The 2011 Bruesewitz v. Wyeth case was the death knell in the coffin of litigation against vaccine product defects.
    – The pharmaceutical industry has been fined heavily (but not heavy enough to stop their behavior) in criminal and civil penalties, and this is information through 2017 https://www.citizen.org/wp-content/uploads/2408.pdf
    – Here’s a court case: “Stipulated Order Proving CDC Has No Studies To Support Claim That Vaccines Given in First 6 Months of Life Do Not Cause Autism.” The CDC had taken down their claim that “vaccines do not cause autism.” They put the statement back up and ICAN is taking action again. https://www.icandecide.org/ican_lawsuits/stipulated-order-proving-cdc-has-no-studies-to-support-claim-that-vaccines-given-in-first-6-months-of-life-do-not-cause-autism/
    – Here’s the complaint that HHS was not in compliance with the 1986 Act, namely not one vaccine has been studied against a placebo (gold standard) and some only studied for days, in addition to severing their cooperation with the HarvardPilgrim program to assure safer vaccines https://www.icandecide.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/ICAN-HHS-Notice-1.pdf
    – Stipulated Order Confirming Non-Compliance With 42 USC 300AA-27C https://www.icandecide.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/Stipulated-Order-copy-1.pdf. https://www.icandecide.org/ican_lawsuits/stipulated-order-showing-that-nih-and-hrsa-have-not-acted-in-their-duties-regarding-vaccine-safety/
    — How Aluminum Adjuvants in Vaccines can Cause Autism https://www.icandecide.org/ican_white_papers/how-aluminum-adjuvants-in-vaccines-can-cause-autism/

    Here are some other websites that break down vaccine information in digestible form:
    – NVIC.org
    – vaxxter.com
    – childrenshealthdefense.org
    – icandecide.org
    https://w3.blaylockwellness.com/Health/BWR/LP/BWR-Vaccines

    So why hasn’t the news reported this? Good question. The same question Bigtree and Kennedy asked. Kennedy was told outright that the news won’t report this and that any newscaster who touched it could get fired. He has gotten on a few times, but it’s rare.

    So what do we know:

    – The pharmaceutical industry spends an obscene amount of money on advertising. https://www.napolilaw.com/article/pharmaceutical-industry-spends-shocking-amount-advertising/
    – The global vaccine market revenues 60 billion by 2020 https://www.statista.com/statistics/265102/revenues-in-the-global-vaccine-market/
    – “Big Pharma Owns the Corporate Media, But Americans are Waking up and Fighting Back.” https://trofire.com/2017/04/11/big-pharma-owns-corporate-media-americans-waking-fighting-back/
    https://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/2019/04/27/how-public-vaccine-policy-violates-our-right-to-informed-consent/
    – The corruption is overwhelming:
    https://www.huffpost.com/entry/spider-bites-cdc-ethics-c_b_12525012
    https://childrenshealthdefense.org/news/why-you-cant-trust-the-cdc-on-vaccines/
    https://childrenshealthdefense.org/?s=cdc+corrupt

    The sum for me:
    The news media is not reporting on the corruption as it should and it does not provide for an opposing narrative. I spent years researching and reading the effects of vaccines. I’ve spoken with many people who were pro-vaccine. It took injury or death of a loved one to obtain the status of “anti-vaxxer.” The truth is most “anti-vaxxers” were once pro-vaccine. I will repeat RFK, Jr., statement, When people question the safety of mercury in fish, they are not called anti-fish.
    There are doctors and scientists MSM won’t let speak to the dangers of vaccines and other treatment protocols. In fact, the media uses their typical “conspiracy theory” and mocking to shut down any open debate. They know people don’t like to be criticized. Labeling and criticizing shuts people up from questioning, which is why many doctors told Bigtree that they will not come forward with the dangers they have seen from vaccines.

    We no longer have a media doing their part of investigating, which is exactly why I don’t trust MSM.

    1. LarrytheG Avatar

      re: ” The news media is not reporting on the corruption as it should and it does not provide for an opposing narrative. I spent years researching and reading the effects of vaccines”

      so it’s a conspiracy to keep the facts from the public, and they are being fooled into thinking that not taking the vaccine is safer than taking it?

      millions of people are being deceived about it?

  19. LarrytheG Avatar

    re: ” You prove my point: say the word “conspiracy,” and it’s supposed to shut down the narrative. It’s clear you didn’t read one link. And now the imperative is on you to answer why you think the headlines I provide below out of the information I provided above has not been reported on MSM.”

    I’ve read some of your links including the one you doctored at the front claiming it was business wire and it had other stuff from a Love Trump website added. it was clearly misinformation.

    I look at the links that you provide and ask if they are objective and authoritative and some clearly or not and others are being claimed to say something and they do not.

    When that’s the kind of references you are using at the same time you’ve pretty much called all the MSM as involved in a effort to hide data and info – then yo’ve gone off to LA LA Land in my view.

    There is a LOT of information of there that is in the MSM but it does reference authoritative agencies like the FDA and CDC and if you look at ALL of the evidence – it comes down to this. Your risks of getting covid are high if you don’t get vaccinated. And to this point, including the drug trials, the side effects have been much smaller in number.

    It works like most vaccinations. The vast majority of the public is protected from measles because of vaccinations. That’s not MSM lies…it’s the simple truth.

  20. dalhommer Avatar

    You prove my point: say the word “conspiracy,” and it’s supposed to shut down the narrative. It’s clear you didn’t read one link. And now the imperative is on you to answer why you think the headlines I provide below out of the information I provided above has not been reported on MSM.

    First I am going to give you stats as to why there is an epidemic with our children. Then I will provide headlines that I believe MSM should have provided but I have seen no evidence of their reporting on such information. Do you think any of it is newsworthy? And if you think it is newsworthy, why do you think the media hasn’t reported on it? And if they have, I’d like to see the proof: Let me just reiterate: Why do you think this information has not been reported in the news?

    There’s an epidemic with autism and chronic illness with our kids:

    In early 1970s 1 in 10,000 children were on the autism spectrum
    1985 1 in 2,500
    1995 1 in 500
    2001 1 in 250
    2004 1 in 166
    2009 1 in 100
    2012 1 in 68
    2016 1 in 45
    2018 1 in 36

    In 1986 the National Childhood Vaccine Act was signed relieving vaccine manufacturers of legal liability of injuries/deaths caused by their products. The Bruesewitz v. Wyeth case shut down any litigation on vaccine manufacturers being held liable for injuries/death caused by their products.

    1962 – 5 doses of 3 vaccines
    1983 – 24 doses
    Today – 49 doses of 14 vaccines before age 6 and totaling 69 doses by 18 years old.
    100s of vaccines in the pipeline
    Where does it stop?

    Now let’s look at the health of our children
    Asthma 1 in 8
    Eczema 1 in 5
    Food allergies 1 in 12
    Obesity 1 in 7
    Autism 1 in 50
    Learning disability 1 in 6
    Severe mood dysregulation 1 in 30
    OCD 1 in 100
    Chronic illness (ear infections, sinus infections, diarrhea, constipation, runny nose, abdominal pains, sensory disorders, recurrent urinary tract infections, skin rashes)
    https://epidemicanswers.org/statistics-about-autism-adhd-asthma-allergies-and-more/

    Here’s are two comparative study illustrating unvaccinated children are healthier
    – Pilot Comparative Study on the health of vaccinated and unvaccinated 6- to 12- year old U.S. children
    https://www.mdpi.com/1660-4601/17/22/8674/htm

    Question: Why hasn’t this been reported in the news?

    In the case of Institute for Autism Science and ICAN vs the CDC in the USDC for the So District of New York the CDC has Stipulated that it has Order Proving CDC Has No Studies To Support Claim That Vaccines Given in First 6 Months of Life Do Not Cause Autism

    In the case of ICAN v. FDA in the USDC for the So. District of NY – Stipulated Order Showing FDA’s Off-Label Use of Vaccines During Pregnancy

    In the case of ICAN v. HHS in the USDC of the So District of NY – Stipulated Order Confirming Non-Compliance With 42 USC 300AA-27C

    In the case of ICAN v. NIH and HRSA of the USDC So District of NY – Stipulated Order Showing That NIH And HRSA Have Not Acted In Their Duties Regarding Vaccine Safety

    This I am copying from Del Bigtree:

    Censored Vaccine Facts
    CDC Vaccine Schedule Has Never Been Tested in Current Combinations
    HHS was sued and forced to admit in court their 30 year failure to deliver over 2 year vaccine safety studies to Congress per NCVIA that eliminated Pharma liability for vaccine injury. You can’t sue Pharma if your child is harmed and HHS/CDC/NIH are not concerned with improving Vaccine Safety

    FDA was sued and forced to admit in court vaccines have never been tested in pregnant women, meaning FDA has no idea what vaccines do to babies. The science does not exist

    FDA treats vaccines different than other drugs they approve which are studies for years before approval; vaccines only studied days or weeks

    FDA demands every other drug is “Gold Standard,” double-blind, inert placebo tested, but vaccines use other vaccines or adjuvants, not true inert placebo

    CDC recommends flu shot to pregnant women after CDC study shows 7.7 x’s miscarriage increase after flue shot.

    CDC Whistleblower Dr. William Thompson Admits his 2004 MMR study hid 340% Autism increase due to vaccines. CDC has blocked his testimony

    CDC claims vaccine reactions are “one in a million” but HARVARD actual data analysis found 2.6% reactions

    HHS study shows less than 1% of vaccine reactions are reported to VAERS (Vaccine Adverse Events Reporting System)

    NIH was sued, forced to admit in 30 year failure to create Vaccine Safety Task Force per NCVIA

    Merck scientists MMR lawsuit for fraud in mumps portions testing, claiming rabbit blood was added to samples, explaining the high level of mumps vaccines failures

    IOM states combinations of vaccines cannot be studied because the science does not exist. No studies are planned

    DOJ Criminal Fraud Investigation – during 2009 Omnibus Autism Proceedings DOJ told court star witness believed vaccines do not cause autism, causing 5,400 court cases to be dismissed and limit future recourse for millions. RFK Jr has deposition from star witness proving DOJ committed criminal fraud and the witness actually told DOJ vaccines could cause autism.

    1. LarrytheG Avatar

      re: ” In 1986 the National Childhood Vaccine Act was signed relieving vaccine manufacturers of legal liability of injuries/deaths caused by their products. The Bruesewitz v. Wyeth case shut down any litigation on vaccine manufacturers being held liable for injuries/death caused by their products.”

      How many die from vaccine injuries versus from the disease itself if not vaccinated?

  21. dalhommer Avatar

    You prove my point: say the word “conspiracy,” and it’s supposed to shut down the narrative. It’s clear you didn’t read one link. And now the imperative is on you to answer why you think the headlines I provide below out of the information I provided above has not been reported on MSM.

    First I am going to give you stats as to why there is an epidemic with our children. Then I will provide headlines that I believe MSM should have provided but I have seen no evidence of their reporting on such information. Do you think any of it is newsworthy? And if you think it is newsworthy, why do you think the media hasn’t reported on it? And if they have, I’d like to see the proof: Let me just reiterate: Why do you think this information has not been reported in the news?

    There’s an epidemic with autism and chronic illness with our kids:

    In early 1970s 1 in 10,000 children were on the autism spectrum
    1985 1 in 2,500
    1995 1 in 500
    2001 1 in 250
    2004 1 in 166
    2009 1 in 100
    2012 1 in 68
    2016 1 in 45
    2018 1 in 36

    In 1986 the National Childhood Vaccine Act was signed relieving vaccine manufacturers of legal liability of injuries/deaths caused by their products. The Bruesewitz v. Wyeth case shut down any litigation on vaccine manufacturers being held liable for injuries/death caused by their products.

    1962 – 5 doses of 3 vaccines
    1983 – 24 doses
    Today – 49 doses of 14 vaccines before age 6 and totaling 69 doses by 18 years old.
    100s of vaccines in the pipeline
    Where does it stop?

    Now let’s look at the health of our children
    Asthma 1 in 8
    Eczema 1 in 5
    Food allergies 1 in 12
    Obesity 1 in 7
    Autism 1 in 50
    Learning disability 1 in 6
    Severe mood dysregulation 1 in 30
    OCD 1 in 100
    Chronic illness (ear infections, sinus infections, diarrhea, constipation, runny nose, abdominal pains, sensory disorders, recurrent urinary tract infections, skin rashes)
    https://epidemicanswers.org/statistics-about-autism-adhd-asthma-allergies-and-more/

    Here’s are two comparative study illustrating unvaccinated children are healthier
    – Pilot Comparative Study on the health of vaccinated and unvaccinated 6- to 12- year old U.S. children
    https://www.mdpi.com/1660-4601/17/22/8674/htm

    Question: Why hasn’t this been reported in the news?

    In the case of Institute for Autism Science and ICAN vs the CDC in the USDC for the So District of New York the CDC has Stipulated that it has Order Proving CDC Has No Studies To Support Claim That Vaccines Given in First 6 Months of Life Do Not Cause Autism

    In the case of ICAN v. FDA in the USDC for the So. District of NY – Stipulated Order Showing FDA’s Off-Label Use of Vaccines During Pregnancy

    In the case of ICAN v. HHS in the USDC of the So District of NY – Stipulated Order Confirming Non-Compliance With 42 USC 300AA-27C

    In the case of ICAN v. NIH and HRSA of the USDC So District of NY – Stipulated Order Showing That NIH And HRSA Have Not Acted In Their Duties Regarding Vaccine Safety

    This I am copying from Del Bigtree:

    Censored Vaccine Facts
    CDC Vaccine Schedule Has Never Been Tested in Current Combinations
    HHS was sued and forced to admit in court their 30 year failure to deliver over 2 year vaccine safety studies to Congress per NCVIA that eliminated Pharma liability for vaccine injury. You can’t sue Pharma if your child is harmed and HHS/CDC/NIH are not concerned with improving Vaccine Safety

    FDA was sued and forced to admit in court vaccines have never been tested in pregnant women, meaning FDA has no idea what vaccines do to babies. The science does not exist

    FDA treats vaccines different than other drugs they approve which are studies for years before approval; vaccines only studied days or weeks

    FDA demands every other drug is “Gold Standard,” double-blind, inert placebo tested, but vaccines use other vaccines or adjuvants, not true inert placebo

    CDC recommends flu shot to pregnant women after CDC study shows 7.7 x’s miscarriage increase after flue shot.

    CDC Whistleblower Dr. William Thompson Admits his 2004 MMR study hid 340% Autism increase due to vaccines. CDC has blocked his testimony

    CDC claims vaccine reactions are “one in a million” but HARVARD actual data analysis found 2.6% reactions

    HHS study shows less than 1% of vaccine reactions are reported to VAERS (Vaccine Adverse Events Reporting System)

    NIH was sued, forced to admit in 30 year failure to create Vaccine Safety Task Force per NCVIA

    Merck scientists MMR lawsuit for fraud in mumps portions testing, claiming rabbit blood was added to samples, explaining the high level of mumps vaccines failures

    IOM states combinations of vaccines cannot be studied because the science does not exist. No studies are planned

    DOJ Criminal Fraud Investigation – during 2009 Omnibus Autism Proceedings DOJ told court star witness believed vaccines do not cause autism, causing 5,400 court cases to be dismissed and limit future recourse for millions. RFK Jr has deposition from star witness proving DOJ committed criminal fraud and the witness actually told DOJ vaccines could cause autism.

    1. LarrytheG Avatar

      re: ” In 1986 the National Childhood Vaccine Act was signed relieving vaccine manufacturers of legal liability of injuries/deaths caused by their products. The Bruesewitz v. Wyeth case shut down any litigation on vaccine manufacturers being held liable for injuries/death caused by their products.”

      How many die from vaccine injuries versus from the disease itself if not vaccinated?

  22. LarrytheG Avatar

    re: ” You prove my point: say the word “conspiracy,” and it’s supposed to shut down the narrative. It’s clear you didn’t read one link. And now the imperative is on you to answer why you think the headlines I provide below out of the information I provided above has not been reported on MSM.”

    I’ve read some of your links including the one you doctored at the front claiming it was business wire and it had other stuff from a Love Trump website added. it was clearly misinformation.

    I look at the links that you provide and ask if they are objective and authoritative and some clearly or not and others are being claimed to say something and they do not.

    When that’s the kind of references you are using at the same time you’ve pretty much called all the MSM as involved in a effort to hide data and info – then yo’ve gone off to LA LA Land in my view.

    There is a LOT of information of there that is in the MSM but it does reference authoritative agencies like the FDA and CDC and if you look at ALL of the evidence – it comes down to this. Your risks of getting covid are high if you don’t get vaccinated. And to this point, including the drug trials, the side effects have been much smaller in number.

    It works like most vaccinations. The vast majority of the public is protected from measles because of vaccinations. That’s not MSM lies…it’s the simple truth.

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