What Parents Are Getting for their College Tuitions These Days

I’m back from Augusta, Ga., and I’m probably miles behind the rest of the Virginia blogosphere on this topic, but I figured I’d post it anyway. As a father who has sent two daughters through college and anticipate doing the same for a son, I would be most unhappy if my child were attending Randolph College, an expensive liberal arts school in Lynchburg. (Jerry Falwell is spinning in his grave!)

According to MSNBC, the American Studies program at Randolph College has sponsored a field to trip Las Vegas for a closer look at…. drum roll… a brothel!

Each semester, the course examines a strain of American culture and ends with a class trip. Reports MSNBC in a breathless, isn’t-this-interesting tone: The brothel tour was a natural fit for a class on American consumption and “the ideas that consume us.” Said Julio Rodriguez, the director of the college’s American Culture Program: “Don’t just study America — live it.”

“I think it’s fascinating, this is fun for me,” said Nicki Amouri, a junior at the private liberal arts school . “Not many people get to do this.”

Isn’t that special?

The 12 students interviewed “Alicia,” a prostitute at the Chicken Ranch. Sample questions: Do you consider yourself a feminist? Is there a certain look that most men prefer? Do you give a military discount? What’s the worst part of the job? (Answer to the last question: Being cooped up all day. “Feeling morally degraded” apparently wasn’t high on the list of drawbacks.) Next stop for the class: a backstage revue of the risque review “Jubilee.”

While the Randolph College students took a values-free look at prostitution, I had ringside seats two nights ago in an Augusta, Ga., restaurant where a group of five or six middle-aged men were hanging out and pounding down drinks at the bar. A stunning young black woman, dressed in a tasteful red and white sun dress and matching purse, joined them. She was extremely forward and familiar with the men, one of whom was wearing a wedding ring, and they clearly enjoyed flirting with her. One guy served her some mussel hors d’oeuvres and asked in a boozy voice, loud enough for everyone at our table to hear, “Does it make you horny?” After 45 minutes or so, they all left the restaurant together. Draw your own conclusions as to the nature of the relationship.

The incident was almost as instructive as the Randy Mac students’ trip to the Chicken Ranch. Only difference: I didn’t have a chance to query the “sex worker.” (We wouldn’t want to use a judgmental word like “whore,” would we?) If I had, I would have asked the young woman at the Augusta restaurant – who must have been a college student, judging by her glamorous looks, vocabulary and diction, which surpassed in sophistication that of the men she was accompanying — what the hell are you doing?

You’re a beautiful young woman, why are you selling yourself to low-life creeps like these guys? Given the fact that you’re black and they’re white, do you ever feel exploited? Does your family know about this? Do you ever feel guilty or remorseful about what you do? Is this something you’ll feel comfortable telling your children about some day? Could you explain your moral value structure — does sex mean anything more to you than a commodity to sell?

Contemporary American consumerism exists in a moral void today. But it isn’t the consumerism that scours our souls. I think the causality works quite the other way around. A moral vacuum — a hedonistic search for pleasure and self-gratification, lacking any higher purpose — steers us into excessive consumerism without any thought to the moral implications. If the MSNBC story was any indication, however, the Randolph College course never plumbed the subject to that depth. The story itself certainly didn’t.

If I were a parent of a Randolph College child, I’d be demanding my money back. Here’s the saddest part of all: The parents of these children apparently saw nothing wrong with the trip. Someone had to foot the tab for the cross-country travel — and it probably wasn’t the students. I am not religious and I am not a prude, but I certainly don’t want my daughters embracing a values-free outlook on prostitution.


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Comments

  1. James Young Avatar
    James Young

    As a Hampden-Sydney man (’86), I can only say that it’s a cryin’ shame what has happened to what was once a fine, respectable women’s college (Randolph College was formerly Randolph-Macon Women’s College).

  2. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    Oh my, Oh my,
    Randolph College ( which used to b’ knowned as somethin’ a little longga’), used ta be a finah place fur South’ern gals to mate up with those boys frem Hampdem Sydeney (sory ’bout my ‘spellin).
    Used ta be that’s we just want to marryup them those Hampden Sydney men who wud go one ta their daddies brokerages or real estate com’knees and we’d all go to the country club and play golf and drink gin ‘n’ tonics after the 18the hole.
    But now we are explo’in prostitution and “pay’for’sex” we’re wander’in what’s tha difference. We’re ju’s explor’m and ole’ James Bacon and James Young git on their moral hi horse and are haven’ a conipition fit. Who are they ta say that we ole South’ern gals can’t explore what we lak? They do.

    Hope all ya ya’ll Sothern boys understend.

  3. James Young Avatar
    James Young

    Uh, Anon, I went neither to my “daddies brokerages” (my “daddie” owned a service station for 42 years, and only recently retired at age 73) nor into “real estate com’knees” (whatever that is). And while I am a member of a “country club” (for the pool privileges, which I clearly don’t utilize enough), I don’t “play golf,” and despise “gin ‘n’ tonics.” Neither did I marry a R-MWC girl.

    As for your caricature, among the top six members of my class, three were from broken homes, and five (I’m not sure about the sixth) attended on full academic scholarships. Two went to med school. The three from broken homes went to law school (the first in their families), and one of them was a Rhodes Scholar. He is now an executive with the Virginian-Pilot (having served in the Clinton Administration’s Treasury Dept.); another of the three is CEO of a major transportation company; the third will be arguing his first case in the U.S. Supreme Court next term, and has spent his career providing free legal aid.

    To be sure, a goodly number of my classmates are bankers, brokers, and real estate entrepreneurs. So far as I know, all can conjure a comprehensible sentence.

    Pity when your caricatures defy reality, huh?

  4. James Atticus Bowden Avatar
    James Atticus Bowden

    In defense of Hampden-Sydney… not that they need it. I knew the stereotype about money. But I thought serious female money went to Mary Baldwin (perhaps showing my age).

    When we visited for my son’s college trip for CL ’01 introduction – or whatever you call school marketing, I was struck by the core curriculum.

    I did some homework. I think Davidson might be stronger. And the Christian schools of Hillsdale and Grove City may be more Christian worldview, but I don’t think any other place matches HS in the quality of their core curriculum. VMI does a good job but not better. And that is where he chose to go.

    For post-grad networks in Virginia – who can beat VMI, HS, then who…U Va or Richmond?

  5. Larry Gross Avatar
    Larry Gross

    the problem with a “values” education is perceptions, stereotyping and realities.

    We have lots of folks running around with “values” that are not based on personal experiences.

    and we have lots of folks who hold certain values that have never actually been involved “on the ground” with the issue.

    Part of what moved us from a truly segregated society to one that while not color-blind is very different from the 1960’s where folks were being fire-hosed.. attacked with police dogs, arrested at lunch counters or for drinking out of the wrong water fountain.. etc..
    … that change came as people actually starting attending school together.. and enough of them realized how barbarous it is to institutionally demonize those that are different from you – AND those that hold different values than you also.

    just look around at how we deal with Islam and Muslims.. today to get a whiff of that….

    back to prostitution… how many young people just “might” have a incorrect perception, perhaps a stereotypical perspective about prostitutes and prostitution?

    Is it bad/wrong for them to get more “education” on that issue?

    are we really afraid that if they find out more.. that their “values” might not agree with parents “values”?

    Ignorance is responsible for so much of what is wrong with our world.. and anytime we get information that helps cure it.. is not a bad thing in my mind…

    and I always say.. every one of us is truly Ignorant – only on different subjects…

    I do not see the harm of becoming less ignorant…

    …and if your values changes as a result of less ignorance.. what does that mean?

  6. Jim Bacon Avatar
    Jim Bacon

    Anonymous 7:27, Your comment was quite revealing. If you’d applied the same technique of crude stereotyping to lampooning, say, African-Americans in the inner city, you’d rightly be derided as a racist. Of course, you’d never do such a thing — I don’t think I’m jumping to conclusions here — because you know that such stereotypes degrading and wrong.

    But in your world view, there’s nothing wrong with crude stereotypes — the only offense is to whom you apply them. Crude stereotypes against African- Americans and gays are bad; crude stereotypes of Southern frat boys is OK. Do you ever ponder the inconsistency?

  7. Jim Bacon Avatar
    Jim Bacon

    Larry, People are free to explore anything they want. If these college kids want to go to Vegas and check out a whore house, that’s their business. But if I were their parent paying $40,000 or so a year in tuition, room and board, I’d be less interested in having them “experience” the world — something they will do when they graduate — than in learning to think clearly and cogently about the world.

  8. Sticky Ricky Avatar
    Sticky Ricky

    Prostitution is a human institution. It’s meant to be understood. What’s wrong with trying to understand it? Maybe they’ll learn something beyond pointing their finger while calling someone a whore.

  9. Jim Bacon Avatar
    Jim Bacon

    ticky Ricky, Based on your reading of the MSNBC article, what level of “understanding” do you think the Randolph College students achieved by interviewing “Alicia”?

    Was there *any* exploration of the moral or philosphical dimension of prostitution? Was there any exploration of the phenomenon from a libertarian perspective — consenting adults should be allowed to engaged in mutually agreeable transactions? Was there any exploration of prostitution from a feminist perspective, which regards prostitution as inherently exploitative of women? Not that I could discern.

    It’s conceivable that the MSNBC reporter was simply a superficial dolt and overlooked the more intellectually engaging aspects of the young women’s educational experience. But from my perspective, the “educational experience” came across as an exercise in voyeurism.

    I worked darn hard to earn the money to send my daughters to good universities. My younger daughter actually has studied prostitution, along with other “marginalized” behaviors such as tattooing, circus freaks and more. I’m not thrilled by the subject matter, but at least she applied theoretical perspectives (feminist perspectives, to be sure) to these topics and she engaged in analytical thinking. I find evidence of no such thinking in the MSNBC article.

  10. Larry Gross Avatar
    Larry Gross

    ummm.. isn’t it pretty arrogant for anyone to think they should decide for another human being what “kind” of Education they should get?

    Why.. just because another human being is a son or daughter do any of us think – that OUR values should be THEIR values?

    Are we so weak and unsure of our own views of the world that for offspring we PREFER that they not find out for themselves – what the world is about?

    would you not wish the best for your offspring and that is for them to grow up smart and intelligent enough to examine an issue and formulate their own view?

    would you deny them the right to go about developing an informed opinion?

    do you think that your own opinions are so correct that your offspring only needs to consult with you?

    tell me again.. what ignorance is..

  11. Jim Bacon Avatar
    Jim Bacon

    Larry, When I’m forking out the big bucks to pay for my children’s education, I think I should have a say in what kind of education they get. I have always encouraged my daughters to think for themselves. Although I believe it is my responsibility as a parent to provide advice, I’ve never insisted that either one of them adopt a particular point of view. They are free to reach their own conclusions. With my younger daughter particularly, I have spent many long hours in free-wheeling discussions over the kitchen table.

    The one thing I expect my younger daughter, now a senior at William & Mary, to get from her education is the ability to think independently and rigorously. That requires building a framework of vocabulary, facts and theories to bring to bear on any particular issue. It also requires *thinking* — not simply *experiencing* things devoid of context.

    If all you want is collect a variety of “experiences,” then you don’t need to go to college. Just go out and engage the world and save yourself a lot of money.

  12. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    Jim Bacon and James Young,

    All I can say is that I hope you get a “tut tut” and “harumph!” out of all Baconauts.

    What are you guys trying to be, anyway, the “New American Mullahs?”

    Peter Galuszka

  13. Larry Gross Avatar
    Larry Gross

    what you want is to share is your values and the “why” behind them but then you need to step back and let them be who they will be – as a fellow human being.. no matter how close you feel to them.. by blood or friendship.

    you help them get that bike up on those training wheels.. and then you step back…

  14. Jim Bacon Avatar
    Jim Bacon

    Peter, if I’m an “American mullah,” you and Larry are “moral anarchists”!

  15. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    I’m disappointed in you Bacon.

    You dissed Richmond, VA by not promoting the Superstripper MBA that is being offered here in 2 weeks.

    http://edmba.starlight-ministries.org

    Please remember to promote our forward and insightful institutions of learning next time you’re out and about!

  16. Darrell -- Chesapeake Avatar
    Darrell — Chesapeake

    Could have been worse. It could have been an internship.

    Or Spring Break!

  17. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    “Moral Anarchists?” Oooh, I like that!

    Peter Galuszka

  18. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    “Larry, People are free to explore anything they want. If these college kids want to go to Vegas and check out a whore house, that’s their business.”

    What does this have to do with Virgiia?

    Smacks of what Dr. Risse calls Geographic Iliteracy.

    The nearest airport to The Chicken Ranch is not Las Vages, it is Reno.

    Back to question one…

  19. Groveton Avatar

    Sitting in the airport on my way to Amsterdam I wonder about this whole thread. A “field trip” to the Chicken Ranch to interview “Alicia” does seem like a waste of time and money. However, legalization of activities considered immoral by many is a legitimate economic question. Gambling in the US is a case in point. Once upon a time (not that long ago) you had to go to Nevada to gamble legally. Then came Atlantic City, then state lotteries, then Indian casinos then lots of places where gambling is allowed (including Biloxi and Kansas City as I understand things). In 1955 a college field trip to Las Vegas to interview a black jack dealer would have been decried as a waste of time and money. Gambling was a vice legalized only in the sodom of Nevada. Now? You can gamble almost everywhere in the US.

    Maybe these kids are on to something.

    I just wonder if they really had to go to Reno to find a brothel. The police in Prince William County have had several recent episodes where they charged busineeses with operating a bawdy place.

  20. Groveton Avatar

    Jim:

    If you want something a little less sensational but a bit more “on topic”:

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/11/AR2008041104052.html

    Here’s a key section of that article:

    “Robinson’s SAT score of 2270, out of a possible 2400, looked terrific compared with the JMU average of about 1710. But experts said JMU’s admissions officers expect high scores from Fairfax and will probably take just as close a look at a hardworking student with a lower SAT score from a place such as Galax, to the southwest, or Petersburg, south of Richmond.”.

    The comments on this blog have often stated with stark self-assurance that the only real “transfer” from Northern Virginia to RoVA is the SOQ – based educational subsidies. Now, however, I see yet another transfer. State supported colleges will accept a student with an inferior academic record from RoVA over a NoVA student with better grades and better test scores.

    Unfortunately, the global marketplace does not discriminate based on geography of upbringing. Products and services are sold by those who make them most efficiently. If the state of Virginia wants to bypass its best students in order to create “geographic diversity” within the state it will be bypassing its own future as well.

  21. Jim Bacon Avatar
    Jim Bacon

    Groveton, Herewith are responses on two of your posts:

    Comment of 5:01 p.m.: I never gamble myself. I’m Scottish by birthright, which makes me a skinflint, and I know that any dollar I spend on gambling will return me $.90 or less. But I don’t have a problem with other people gambling. It’s a victimless crime. (The picture does get more complicated when gamblers are addicts — I knew one fellow, a good guy otherwise, who gambled himself into insolvency. But people can do the same thing in the stock market, and there’s no law to prevent that.)

    I really don’t have a problem with legalizing prostitution. I take a libertarian view: It’s a transaction between consenting adults. But just because something is legal does not make it morally and ethically acceptable. Many, many forms of behavior are legal but not ethical.

    Groveton, you have five children. Most of them are sons, are they not? Not a daughter in the bunch? Well, I have two daughters, and I can tell you, it’s one thing to say that prostitution should be legalized and quite another to say that prostitution is a legitimate career choice for my daughters. (I have a 9-year-old son, too, and I would not be happy to discover at some future date that he has been frequenting houses of prostitution.)

    If our ethical standards are set by what is “legal,” then our ethical standards will be pretty damn low. I hold myself and my progeny to higher standards of behavior…. as I suspect you do as well.

    Comment of 5:21 p.m.: SOQs, subsidies and admission standards: Welcome to the wonderful world of the redistribution of wealth and “equal opportunity” for all. In another context — the inheritance tax — you’re quite happy to see the differences whittled away between the haves and have-nots. But when it comes to educational opportunity, you seem to have a problem with the idea of equalizing outcomes. Can you explain the discrepency?

  22. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    Groveton,
    Given that you are opining about prostitution and are in Amsterdam, I have but one question: are you getting off the plane?

    (Just kidding).

    P{eter Galuszka

  23. Larry Gross Avatar
    Larry Gross

    We don’t want kids taking EVERYTHING their parents say – as gospel.

    They need to find out for themselves what is behind the values that their parents have (and don’t have).

    I had a parent whose values included.. making sure that our maid should ONLY drink from certain glasses and NEVER the family glasses.

    That’s an extreme example but no parent has it all 100% correct.. and what you hope for is that your kids take from you the good things and then IMPROVE…

    and they can’t do that.. if you are the one deciding what they can look into on their own…

    Most college courses like this are not required… they are optional.

    and the last thing in the world, I’d like to see is Jim Bacon have a veto or what courses are offered even if his kids don’t take them.. and then multiply that times all parents…

    you’d end up with a stifling curriculum .. not unlike some fundamentalist religious institutions.. both here and abroad.

    Moral Anarchy?

    I actually think if more young women visited brothels – they might well take a much different attitude towards casual sex… and perhaps develop a much better understanding of what “whore” means.. rather than having to spend decades..learning it …

    we are all ignorant.. on different things.. and especially on those things that we’ve developed opinions are without knowing much more than what we read.

  24. Groveton Avatar

    Jim:

    I do not support legalizing protitution. However, it is legal in some parts of Nevada. IT may well become another thing that was once widely prohibited (like gambling) but becomes widely accepted. I have never been to a Nevada brothel. However, I have seen them portrayed on TV. They seem like depressing sad places. I’d bet that most college students who see a brothel and talk to a prostitute will come away thinking the whold idea of legalized prostitution is bad. It might just keep another evil genie in the bottle.

    As for inheritance tax and SOQ transfers – no comparison. There are more poor people living in Fairfax County then there are people living in 80 Virginia counties. Transferring money away from these poor people is an abomination. There are also many wealthy people in RoVA. Letting these people become the beneficiaries of inter-regional transfers is also an abomination. By definition, those who are inheriting millions are wealthy. Taking money from them seems quite fair – whether they live in NoVA or RoVA.

    Peter – I am off the plane. However, the coffee houses would tempt me more than the brothels. I hope to show resiliance in the face of both temptations. I only have to make it 2 days – then off to the topless beaches of southern France. I wonder if Jim Bacon would find them an abomination too?

    Also Jim – what about the WaPo article on more restrictive admissions of NoVA students than RoVA students?

  25. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    Might want to start a new thread for Groveton’s topic

    I would have some comments on it

    NMM

  26. Jim Bacon Avatar
    Jim Bacon

    NMM, which topic — disparities in college admissions?

  27. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    “IT may well become another thing that was once widely prohibited (like gambling) but becomes widely accepted.” Groveton

    Anything is possible, Groveton. I’m old enough to remember when liquor by the drink was illegal in VA! You should have heard the comments when legalization was being considered. We were DOOMED, I tell you, DOOMED….

    Deena Flinchum

  28. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    OOPS

    CNN has the story with a nice picture!

    They say The Chicken Ranch is near Vages, not Reno.

    Perhaps there are two Chicken Ranches?

    Perhaps it moved to be near the larger gambling venue?

    Who knows?

    Any way Groveton has a point vis a vis the nanny staters.

  29. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    Groveton,

    Re: More to do in Amsterdam.

    When I worked in Moscow, one of my correspondents had really been working her butt off. She took a well-deserved R&R in Holland. When she got back I asked how it was. She gave me a goofy smile and said: “Just call me Pot Head!”

    Peter Galuszka

  30. Groveton Avatar

    The Green Heart of the Netherlands.

    I am referring, of course, to zoning laws. My Dutch friends tell me that there is a reason the cities have such high density living while there is surrounding countryside. It’s the law. I assume this is an example EMR’s clear edge and it is clear. Driving from one urban location to another one passes through farm land with sheep, horses, etc. I ask why the land isn’t developed for housing and business and I am told it is the Green Heart of the Netherlands. You can’t use land designated for farm use for anything other than farming. Some on Bacon’s Rebellion would see this as a major victory:

    1. The densities in the cities are high.
    2. Roads are narrow and it’s difficult to expand them.
    3. The answer for many in Amsterdam is bicycles. They are everywhere being ridden by people of all ages. They are parked in masses and have special lanes between buildings.

    I suppose this is what some see as utopia. Clean, modern cities surrounded by verdant rural pastures. People getting about while staying fit on bicycles. I asked what the farmland was worth. I was told it was “worthless”. It seems the farms are too small to make much money and there are many regulations on what can (and can’t) be done on the farms.

  31. Groveton Avatar

    Peter G.

    Unfortunately, I will not be able to answer the siren song of the coffeehouses. While my security clearance lapsed long ago I may need to have it reinstated in the future. Something tells me that the polygraph examiner would be less worried about where I was and the local laws and more worried about what I was doing.

    Draught beer is about as wild as I’ll get.

    Youth is wasted on the young. Amsterdam is wasted on the employed.

  32. Groveton Avatar

    Abuser fees – Netherlands style

    While driving from meeting to meeting yesterday I heard an odd shrieking sound from the dashboard of my co-worker’s car. It sounded intermittently and, on occasion, screeched.

    He told me about the speeding laws in the Netherlands. Apparently, automatic speeding traps are set up all over the Netherlands. The screeching sound was a remarkable radar detector (more about that later). The automated speeding traps find people driving over the speed limit – any amount at all will do. If you drive 2 km/hr over the limit, if you drive 5 km/hr over the limit, if you drive 20 km/hr over the limit – you will be receiving a ticket in the mail within two months. And the tickets are expensive. While the fines vary, my friend said that 50 euros seemed like a good average based on the tickets he has collected. As of today, that’s just under $80. And remember, you get a ticket for driving 2 mph too fast.

    The Netherlands has about 16M people. So, it’s just about twice as populous as Virginia. There are 7M registered cars and, last year, speeding tickets raised 700M euros in revenue, or about 100 euros per car. Adjusting for Virginia’s population and leaving the propensity to speed constant, that would net the state $554.7M (USD) per year. Hey Larry – what was the amount you quote about a penny of gas tax?

    Now on to radar detectors. They are, of course, illegal. In fact, the police have a fairly extensive process to find the drivers who have radar detectors. My friend’s car had a detector which he swore was based on US stealth fighter technology. It has a ceramic antenna which can’t be seen by police radar and generates no emissions which the police can detect. It is built into the GPS system and looks like a navigational aide. It’s just like a GPS until it shrieks. It shrieks in proportion to the radar detected. Drive by the airport and it chirps. Drive by one of the hidden, invisible, automatic radar traps and it screams. The radar traps are moved by the police and I never could see where they were located no matter how loudly the detector screeched its protest.

    I like this idea for Virginia.

    Since the roads in NoVA are jammed it’s pretty hard to speed on a regular basis. Therefore, I imagine a “reverse subsidy”. Pick up trucks roaring down the road in RoVA generating money for more Volvo lanes in NoVA. Perfect.

    And, of course, since the RoVA Republicans are real law and order types – enforcing the law should be a genetic truism. Look at how the Rs want the laws enforced for those illegal immigrants. The rule of law they say. We are a nation of laws they bleat. I wonder if we’ll still be a nation of laws when it comes time to start hiding the radar traps?

    Or, are we a nation of laws only so long as those laws are convienient to the Republican establishment?

  33. Jim Bacon Avatar
    Jim Bacon

    Groveton, In point of fact, EMR does not advocate creating clear edges by means of legislative fiat. He argues for what a somewhat permeable clear edge by reforming our system of taxation.

    In Virginia, as with 99.9 percent of America, municipalities tax land and the improvements upon the land. *Inside* the clear edge, EMR proposes taxing only the land, not the improvements (raising the tax rate to make it revenue neutral). This mode of taxation would make it more expensive to hang on to vacant or underutilized land for purposes of speculation, and to go ahead and develop it. This would create a major inducement for infill and redevelopment.

    *Outside* the clear edge, EMR would reverse the process, taxing the improvements. This would not penalize land employed for farming and forestry, as occurs today when speculators drive up the price. But it would penalize people who built subdivisions and shopping centers outside the clear edge.

    The result would not be a perfect clear edge, as you see in the Netherlands. Property owners would be free to hold onto vacant land inside the clear edge, or develop outside the clear edge — although they would be incentivized to do otherwise.

    To my mind, there must be some provision for expanding the clear edge as the population grows…. although EMR makes the case that growth is so scattered and so low density in the Washington, D.C., region that the location of a clear edge would leave enough land to accommodate an expanding population for several decades.

  34. Jim Bacon Avatar
    Jim Bacon

    Groveton, regarding Republicans and speeding tickets… Perhaps someone should fund an academic study to find out whether the likelihood of getting ticketed for speeding is related to ideological persuasion or party affiliation. If Republicans/conservatives turned out to be worse violators of the traffic laws, the liberals/ democrats could have a field day on the same grounds that you pointed out above. Conversely, if it turned out that liberals/democrats were ticketed more often, they could blame it on the bias of all those Bubbas in the state police force! It’s a no-lose strategy!

  35. Groveton Avatar

    “Groveton, In point of fact, EMR does not advocate creating clear edges by means of legislative fiat. He argues for what a somewhat permeable clear edge by reforming our system of taxation.”.

    Our system of taxation is a matter of legislative fiat.

    However, I take your point on the two different ways to accomplish the same thing – both through changes in legislation. For all I know, the Dutch do exactly what EMR proposes. The conversation I had was informal, not technical.

    However, everything has consequences. Tax laws that favor farming and forestry must (government spending being held constant) penalize other industries. Who would be penalized.

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