Bacon's Rebellion

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What, Medicaid Fraud in Virginia?

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by

James A. Bacon
in

A couple of days ago I caught some flak for daring to suggest that some Virginians drawing public benefits might be committing fraud — failing to report under-the-table income in order to qualify for food snaps, Medicaid, rental assistance or whatever. How beastly of me to cast such aspersions! What proof did I have? (See “Poverty Does Not Mean Destitution.”)

Heh! The timing couldn’t be better. James O’Keefe, the conservative investigator of ACORN-busting fame, has released a video of one of his accomplices posing as a Russian drug dealer filing for Medicaid benefits for his sister and father. When he asked if he would get in trouble for reporting income from his illegal drug and prostitution businesses, he was instructed, “Just leave that off your application.”

The fact that an undercover investigator with a preposterous story is given license to cheat doesn’t prove that other people cheat. But the incident certainly does raise issues about how effectively the Medicaid eligibility rules are enforced. Do Medicaid case workers see themselves as advocates for applicants, or as stewards of the taxpayer’s dollar? In this one case, at least, the answer is very clear.

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31 responses to “What, Medicaid Fraud in Virginia?”

  1. Randall Avatar
    Randall

    I don’t think the answer is neither advocates or stewards. I think that the real answer is likely bureaucratic apathy and knowledge of what will make the application forms “somebody else’s problem” more than anything else. It’s just the perception I have of the bureaucrats I’ve had to deal with in my life…

  2. Peter Galuszka Avatar
    Peter Galuszka

    What kind of phony nonsense is this?
    Why make the actor Russian with a really bad Russian accent and an absolutely preposterous story? Why not make him Jewish and from New York? Or maybe someone with every exaggerated African-American trait you can find? Or Hispanic the way some far-right group imagines Hispanics to be? Or how about a snotty white Episcopalian from the West End and a JPress wardrobe who has left “the Rivah” to commit fraud?

    Why should the Medicaid worker take this seriously? Should I leave off the fact of my drug business and the $800,000 yacht with helipad? Give me a break!

    This come on is tacky, racist and the real fraud here. And now Cuccinelli is going to spend my money investigating this?
    Peter Galuszka

  3. Groveton Avatar
    Groveton

    Petah:
    An $800,000 yacht? Dear boy. We call that a boat here on the Rivah. Perhaps a plaything for Muffy or Biff. But certainly not worthy of a helicopter. No, no. That’s going to cost at least 10 times as much. I’ll send you the latest copy of the Robb Report. Or, you can meet me down by the Rivah (sorry Bruce) and we’ll go out on my sloop, “The Descendant of Pocohontas”.

  4. TMT Avatar
    TMT

    Groveton – you are ready to do stand-up comedy. This is funny. Between Peter and you, we bloggers and other readers are often treated to some good humor. In a world with a lot of economic ugliness, good humor is to be savored!

  5. Hydra Avatar
    Hydra

    All I can tell you is that I was allowed and encouraged to make money when and if I could, up to some limit.

    I had periodic interviews and doctor visits to make sure I was not cheating.

    This does not match my experience.

  6. Hydra Avatar
    Hydra

    The time came for me to go back to work. I was extremely worried that the effort and stress of full time work would throw me into a relapse. I felt that I should , but not at all sure that I actually could.

  7. James Bacon Avatar
    James Bacon

    Peter, Peter, Peter, you don’t like the message, so you shoot the messenger. Accuse the videographer of being racist so you can totally ignore the fact that front-line Medicaid employees are derelict in their duty to prevent fraud. But the racist card is getting reaaaallllly old. And in this case, absurd. Accuse the undercover videographer of appealing to derogatory ethnic stereotypes of Russian mobsters. But not of being racist.

    Randall, you may be right — bureaucratic apathy may be the best explanation for the Medicaid lady’s behavior. But counseling someone not to report illegal income is not simply bureaucratic indifference, it’s illegal. How else do you explain that unless the woman sees herself as trying to help her “clients” get their benefits. Of course, any speculation of the woman’s motives is empty conjecture until she has a chance to explain herself.

  8. larryg Avatar
    larryg

    MedicAID, if not mistaken… is administered By the State. right?

    The Feds give about 1/2 the money and let the states decide qualification and administration, if I recall correctly.

  9. larryg Avatar
    larryg

    In many states, including Va, MedicAid pays about 40% of it’s outlays for the elderly in nursing homes. Another statistic is that of the elderly in nursing homes on MedicAid, about 70% of them own their homes.

    The states have the authority to reform the system. The terrible truth here is that many seniors, with the encouragement of their children – try to find a way for Uncle Sam (taxpayers) – pay the cost of the nursing home care rather that have it “eat” the assets of the parents and thus not be able to leave their kids their assets.

    which leaves us with a delicious irony.

    The same kids whom we say are going to be left with the “crushing debt” of entitlements are …themselves trying to retain the assets of their parents – who – if you really think about it – should be paying for their nursing home care – with their homes – which is the typical arrangement if you go into private nursing home care.

    But with the Federal and State govt – there is an attitude that everyone should “get their share” of the “entitlement” program ….

    It’s harsh to think or say it but unfortunately it’s the truth.

    Unlike SS which is not part of the CURRENT deficit, MedicAID and Medicare Part B (C &D) ARE part of the CURRENT deficit – about 1/3 of it.

    The recognition/acceptance we have to come to – is that these programs are probably sustainable if they pay only for those who truly need the charity but not those who have income and assets.

    What apparently is going on is that (at least some) people are saying that either these programs benefit everyone regardless of income/assets or ..they go away.

    Keep in mind that unlike SS and Medicare Part A – no one pays into Medicare Part B or MedicAid over their work career.

    Both these programs are largely funded from tax revenues (Part B charges 100.00 a month – and higher for higher income recipients).

    Paying $100.00 a month for health care is not sustainable.

    It will have to be more expensive… more co-pays and more means-testing if it is to survive.

    MedicAid needs to get more serious about senior assets. We cannot be paying for nursing homes for seniors so that they can then turn over their preserved assets to their kids.

    What politicians are courageous and principled enough to tell people the truth about these programs and what needs to be done to keep them from going broke and/or taking the US budget with them on their way to going broke?

  10. Richard Avatar
    Richard

    Another attempt to push right wing policy by anecdote (that may or may not be true). Isn’t this is the same “journalist” who edited Shirley Sherrod’s (Dept of Agriculture) speech to make it seem she was a racist? Didn’t we learn anything from that sad spectacle? I think Peter’s point is well-taken – how can serious people use something like this to prove a point? And yes, the messenger is important, especially if you know they have an agenda that they will do anything (including lying) to get their way.

    1. Groveton Avatar
      Groveton

      I believe it was Andrew Briebart who posted a segment of Shirley Sherrod’s speech. It was edited to the extent that only a clip was shown and that clip presented an out of context segment which intentionally misled viewers. I believe that the Project Veritas journalist is James O’Keefe.

      The issue, in my mind, is the integrity and competence of the government. If James O’Keefe presented himself as an absurd figure then I would have thought his request for benefits would have been flatly rejected. I would expect the custodians of my money would have asked him to immediately leave. However, that is not what happened.

      Barack Obama and the Democrats want to take more of our hard earned money through higher taxes. I question the overall competence of government to spend that money wisely. Exposes like the ones from James O’Keefe only confirm my suspicion that another dollar given to the government will be another dollar wasted by the government.

  11. Richard Avatar
    Richard

    Groveton – thanks for the correction. Mr. O’Keefe and Mr. Breitbart are of the same mold and hard for me to keep apart. As you might imagine, I think they are full of it and dishonest to boot. I disagree with your particular view of government – I believe that the Environmental Protection Agency has done more good in this world than say Bank of America. I would love to have seen one of the new breed of young Republican “journalists/operatives” (not sure which is the proper term?) do an expose at a gun show or a mortgage broker (circa 2006) or when making a donation to Ken Rove.

    1. Groveton Avatar
      Groveton

      “I believe that the Environmental Protection Agency has done more good in this world than say Bank of America.”.

      Perhaps. Hopwever, the Bank pf America cannot threaten to put me in jail if I elect not to patronize the bank. The government, through the IRS, can and does do just that.

      For that reason alone. I hold the government to a higher level than private enterprise.

      And government has routinely failed to prove its value.

      The question isn’t between big government and the Bank of America. The question is between big government and small government.

  12. Hydra Avatar
    Hydra

    Margaret’s mom was not eligible for Medicaid or Medicare.. Her six years in the nursing home cost us $60k per year. As a result, when our time comes, we will probably qualify.

    Did you know that you cannot get Medicare for Alzheimer’s care, because it is not considered a
    disease? At the very end of her life, other complications set in, these were beyond what the nursing home could manage, and she was ultimately transferred to a facility where she was covered by Medicare. While it is possible to transfer all your assets in order to become eligible for Medicaid, it isn’t easy and one must complete the transfers at least five years before applying for Medicaid. Most people don’t trust their children that much. It means you would have to rely on them for an allowance big enough to fund your previous lifestyle.

    I knew a lady in that situation. She could mostly care for herself but she had mental problems, so her considerable assets were transferred to a trust. The trustees had their interests in mind more than hers, and although she was wealthy she lived in squalid, dangerous conditions. My wife and her caretaker had to beg the banker for enough money to evict the raccoons and fix the thoroughly rotten stoop. I felt the authorities should be called in, but there were other considerations.

    Eventually the relatives inherited well,

  13. larryg Avatar
    larryg

    I think my point about Medicare and MedicAid is this: Republicans/Fiscal Conservatives make the point that because we refuse or are incapable of making the hard choices necessary to keep these programs sustainable that we are betting off shutting them down because otherwise they are going to eat our budget and kill the economy.

    the bleeding hearts (like myself) insist that we MUST make the hard cuts even if people get hurt because if we don’t, the fiscal conservatives will end up with enough support to shut them down.

    which side do you come down on?

    1. Groveton Avatar
      Groveton

      “the bleeding hearts (like myself) insist that we MUST make the hard cuts even if people get hurt because if we don’t, the fiscal conservatives will end up with enough support to shut them down.”,

      Then you should understand why the Republicans don’t want to raise the debt ceiling yet again. Yes, they were happy to raise it when there was a Republican president. Yes, both parties are two faced. However, it will take a standoff to get to the hard cuts you support. Maybe this standoff over the debt ceiling is that moment.

      And yes, shame on both parties for needing an invented crisis to make hard decisions.

  14. Peter Galuszka Avatar
    Peter Galuszka

    Pardon me, kind lady, and am trying to come to right place for Medicaid for father.

    You’ve come to the right place, baby. What do you do?

    I am Russian mobster. Lots of money. $500 ties. I like Sulka very much.You like Sulka?

    Say What?

    Am trying to say. I have yacht. Not too big yacht, but maybe $800,000 with small helipad. Chicks dig helipad. Do I have to put that down?

    Whatever you want, honey.

    Also, I like hedge fund very much. Always searching alpha. And Exchange Traded Funds, like Eric Cantor. I go to Cayman Islands to do this. You seek alpha?

    Hello no! I threw Alpha out of the apartment last week.

    Do I have to put all this down on Medicaid application.

    You do whatever you want, honey.

    (Peter Galuszka)

  15. Hydra Avatar
    Hydra

    This is all helipad fantasy. Margaret’s mom want eligible for Medicare or Medicaid. Did You know that Alzheimer’s is not a disease?
    So we shelled out $60k a year for seven years. This raises the probabability that we will qualify for Medicare.

  16. Groveton Avatar
    Groveton

    Petah:

    We are in mourning here at the Rivah. It seems that our bible, Yachting Magazine, has declared some podunk burg in high tax, liberal Democratic Maryland as the best waterfront town…

    http://www.yachtingmagazine.com/yachting-news-headlines/we-have-a-winner

    How can this happen when Mr. and Mrs. Cantor were pulling for the Rivah? Yes, Oxford lacks the contaminated water warning signs we have on the James Rivah. And Marylanders are forbidden from slaughtering undersized and female crabs at will. And Maryland would never allow Omega Protein to demolish the menhaden from the Bay eliminating an important filter fish. But that’s because Maryland is anti-free enterprise, right? Only now Oxford is #1 on the list and more people will go there generating more business and creating more jobs.

    Your comments along with those Yankees in Maryland have really put us in a dither. Perhaps even worse, Muffy came into contact with water from the James Rivah and had to be be medivaced (using our helicopter, of course) to Confederate Memorial Hospital downtown. It took some time getting her there. We had to fly around that ghastly statue of Arthur Ashe so that we could fly over the many statues of Confederate generals. You know, Rivah City is for winners!

  17. Hydra Avatar
    Hydra

    This isn’t news. All one has to do is cruise the Potomac and compare the facilities and activity on the Maryland side with the Virginia side. This has more to do with the property tax on boats than it has on any environmental issues. Had I kept my boat in Virginia rather than Maryland, I would have paid for it one and a half times by now.

    1. Groveton Avatar
      Groveton

      I have a boat in Maryland. Property tax on boats? Here is a link from a law firm’s web site:

      http://www.boattax.com/MA.How.To.Legally.Avoid.Boat.Tax.htm

      Virginia has a 2% sales tax on boats capped at $2,000. So, you pay 2% until the boat costs $100,000. Then, you stop paying any sales tax on the boat. It must be good to live on The Rivah.

      Maryland is 5%, uncapped. If you can afford an expensive boat, you can afford the boat tax for the entire amount of your boat.

      Maryland has no specific property tax on boats. At least, that’s my understanding. My boat is registered in Maryland and I paid the sales tax when I bought it. So far, no bill for a boat tax has arrived. Additionally, the legal web site indicates that there is no boat property tax.

      In fact, I am somewhat surprised that Virginia has a boat property tax. I know there are personal property taxes which are levied locality by locality but I am surprised there is an additional “just for boats” tax.

  18. Hydra Avatar
    Hydra

    reards Larry’s comment about hiding assets to qualify for medicaid. This can be done, legally, and we all know Larry is for the rule of law.

    But it isn’t easy and it takes a lot of planning. One must divest themselves of almost everything at least 5 years before applying for medicaid. Most people don’t plan that far ahead, and most don;t trust their children that much. In order to do this, one would have to rely on them completely.

    One woman I knew had considerable assets. While she was pretty nutty, she could mostly take care of herself. In her later years she had a part time caretaker / housecleaner to help out. Because of her mental health issues, her assets wee held in trust, but the trust was more interested in itself and the heirs, than in her.

    As a result the woman came to live in complete squalor. Neighbors and the caretaker had to beg the bank for enough funds to evict the racoons and repair a dangerously rotting stoop. Dangerous chunks of plaster were falling from the ceiling. The response from the bank was, but we don’t want to spend the money. the neighbors and caretaker were livid: IT IS HER MONEY.

    Obviously, ths trust was screwed up, but the heirs did well. The old lady, not so much. So yes, it is possible to transfer asssets, although the gift tax is likely to take effect. But, Larry, there is no law that says that just because someone has assets, that they have to waste them on their mother.

  19. Hydra Avatar
    Hydra

    Sorry for the repeated post. Wordpad reported an error the first time, and I did not know it was repeated. Don’t see a way to delete such errors, as Blogger had.

  20. larryg Avatar
    larryg

    ” But it isn’t easy and it takes a lot of planning. One must divest themselves of almost everything at least 5 years before applying for medicaid. ”

    People who have significant assets will hire the appropriate help to figure this out… ahead of time.

    MedicAid is not the only problem. A ton of people with significant assets are also using Medicare Part B as cheap, subsidized health insurance when they should be using their income and assets to pay their health care costs.

    Again – the game being played here is to PRESERVE the parents assets so the children can inherit them – by cost-shifting the costs to other taxpayers – the govt.

    and it is this behavior that is bankrupting both MedicAid and Medicare Part B and adding significantly to the budget deficit.

    the irony is delicious here.

    we are said that it is vital that we deal with the budget so we do not pass on “crushing debt” to the kids when it’s the kids in cahoots with their parents that are seeking to evade responsibility for their own just debts and cram those debts onto other – children – whose parents don’t have assets or have bought their own long-term care insurance out of their own pockets.

    this is what is wrong with American right now. Everyone is doing everything they can to take as much advantage of these govt programs as they can and it’s literally bankrupting the country.

    And if we refuse to fix it – the folks who say kill these programs – are correct.

    if we can’t or refuse to fix these programs we OUGHT TO KILL THEM.

  21. Hydra Avatar
    Hydra

    “People who have significant assets will hire the appropriate help to figure this out… ahead of time.”

    Wrong. People with that much asssets aren’t going to worry about a $400,000 nursing home bill, it is small change. But for people whose total assets may only be $600,000, (their whole lifes work) they may well do what it takes to “game the system” if that is what you call playing by the rules.

    Those that hire expert help, do it to protect their asests and pass them along, not to get rid of them so they can collect a few paltry medicare bucks.

    Margaret and I were able to withstand a blow that would bankrupt most families, but it hurt us a lot. The kind of people you are talking about are the ones who never feel pain.

    The kind tht go to some lengths just to get medicare, are the ones who need it most.

    ———————————————————————————–

    “….. is bankrupting both MedicAid and Medicare Part B and adding significantly to the budget deficit.”

    And what do you think it would do to most peoples personal budget? It would bankrupt them. That is WHY we have those programs.

    Your plan is to have the Doctors, hospitals, and nursing homes, inherit virtually all the property in the US by the time the Boomers die off. And you don;t think THAT would be bad for the economy and the government deficit?

    ———————————————————————————–

    so we do not pass on “crushing debt” to the kids when it’s the kids in cahoots with their parents that are seeking to evade responsibility for their own just debts

    This is a fantasy. As I said, this is a lot harder to do in real life than you make it sound. Besides, why are my parents hospital bills MY problem?
    It is their bills, let them pay them. If they have no assets, they can plead bankruptcy.

    What are you proposing to do, “claw back” from the kids for everything their parents ever indulged them in? That parents can’t give kids anything, because they might need it for old age?

    Where do you stop? Well, the law says five years ago (and it might be ten by now, for all I know). And you do believe in the rule of law, right?

    I don’t see this as a problem people are creating. The lawyers wrote bad laws and funded them incompletely and ineffectually. People just do what the law allows, I don’t call that being in cahoots.

    No matter how stiff you make the rules, or how paltry the benfits if you manage to comply, there will always be some shylock pointing fingers at people who are allegedly gaming the system. I submit that generally they will be someone comfortable, who never ran into the problem they are complaining about.

    Like the a conservative coworker who was complaining about Obamacare. He said he was perfectly happy with his private insurance.

    I looked him right in the eye and said, “That’s because you have never been sick enough to have your insurance canceled.”

    Dead silence. And then finally he acceded “You are right”.

  22. larryg Avatar
    larryg

    ” And what do you think it would do to most peoples personal budget? It would bankrupt them. That is WHY we have those programs.”

    not if those programs pay out more than we can afford.

    at that point the programs are killed and you get NO help.

    600K in assets when you have just debts that you owe is flimsy justification for having taxpayers who have far less than 600K – pay your debts.

    this is the problem we have.

    the “help” you are “entitled” to is “help” to keep you from destitution not “help” to keep your 600K.

    otherwise.. we can kiss Medicare and MedicAid good-bye all together if those on the right …. convince those in the middle that these programs are bankrupting the country.

    Medicare PartB and MedicAid are going to have to be much more seriously means-tested to make it harder for folks with 600k in assets from using them – essentially as tax-subsidized asset-preservation programs.

  23. Hydra Avatar
    Hydra

    Larry, I think you are all wet on this.

    If individuals pay out more than they can afford (because they did not save enought) or programs pay out more than they can afford because they did not collect enough, machts nicht.

    Not everyone gets hit with a $400k nursing home bill. I just had a friend whos 94 year old father died quietly at home, and he lived and active life until three weeks ago, when he took a fall.

    Like other programs, part of the point is to spread the risk, you expect to chip in to prevent catastrophic expenses to others, and you expect to be protected in turn. but the idea that truely wealthy people are divesting huge amounts of assets to avoid what is (for them) a minor nursing home bill is laughable. Those people have so musch money they don’t care. I know folks who hired four people to provide in-home, round the clock, care for an elderly relative. That is simply inconceivable for most families. It is over $100k poer year.

    Even nursing home care is our of reach for many families, it would break them in a year. So a family that depends on two incomes gives up one of them to care for relatives. Before long they are in desperate straits, and we have very little idea what happens to granma then.

    It is already the case that you cannot get medicaid until you are vrtually destitute. And there are rules that make it hard to divest assets in order to qualify. I’m not sure what more means testing makes sense: should you have to be not only broke but in debt before you qualify for help?

    If those on the right …. convince those in the middle that these programs are bankrupting the country, they will do it by exaggerating and even lying about what is going on. We have friends that went through what Margaret and her mom did without breaking a sweat – and they are the type opposed to medicare and medicaid.

    We have other friends whose finances AND family were ruined by problems smaller than hers. And, Margarets mom died before the last round of downszoning, so Margaret was ALLOWED by the county to sell off part of her moms assets to settle up, otherwise she would have lost her home. It was a pretty close run thing, even for us.

    I have seen both sides of that fence, and I don’t think you have the correct lay of the land. The whole system needs to be improved. Elderly people should not be victimized by the families and trusts that are supposed to protect them. People should not be victimized by unscrupulous or inept nursing homes either (Margaret had a round of that, too, before she found a better place.)

    Maybe you think there is a reason that some families should be wiped out by the cost of a lingering death, and other families win the death lottery by a stroke of luck, so to speak. But it seems to me that this is a case where spreading the risk through some kind of insurance program is appropriate, and affordable.

    Before we can figure out HOW to go about that, we have to kill off mistaken views about what is going on. Part of the problem with our health care system is that we refuse to recognize the diffference between health care and death care.

  24. Hydra Avatar
    Hydra

    Larry, I think you are all wet on this.

    If individuals pay out more than they can afford (because they did not save enought) or programs pay out more than they can afford because they did not collect enough, machts nicht.

    Not everyone gets hit with a $400k nursing home bill. I just had a friend whos 94 year old father died quietly at home, and he lived and active life until three weeks ago, when he took a fall.

    Like other programs, part of the point is to spread the risk, you expect to chip in to prevent catastrophic expenses to others, and you expect to be protected in turn. but the idea that truely wealthy people are divesting huge amounts of assets to avoid what is (for them) a minor nursing home bill is laughable. Those people have so musch money they don’t care. I know folks who hired four people to provide in-home, round the clock, care for an elderly relative. That is simply inconceivable for most families. It is over $100k poer year.

    Even nursing home care is our of reach for many families, it would break them in a year. So a family that depends on two incomes gives up one of them to care for relatives. Before long they are in desperate straits, and we have very little idea what happens to granma then.

    It is already the case that you cannot get medicaid until you are vrtually destitute. And there are rules that make it hard to divest assets in order to qualify. I’m not sure what more means testing makes sense: should you have to be not only broke but in debt before you qualify for help?

    If those on the right …. convince those in the middle that these programs are bankrupting the country, they will do it by exaggerating and even lying about what is going on. We have friends that went through what Margaret and her mom did without breaking a sweat – and they are the type opposed to medicare and medicaid.

    We have other friends whose finances AND family were ruined by problems smaller than hers. And, Margarets mom died before the last round of downszoning, so Margaret was ALLOWED by the county to sell off part of her moms assets to settle up, otherwise she would have lost her home. It was a pretty close run thing, even for us.

    I have seen both sides of that fence, and I don’t think you have the correct lay of the land. The whole system needs to be improved. Elderly people should not be victimized by the families and trusts that are supposed to protect them. People should not be victimized by unscrupulous or inept nursing homes either (Margaret had a round of that, too, before she found a better place.)

    Maybe you think there is a reason that some families should be wiped out by the cost of a lingering death, and other families win the death lottery by a stroke of luck, so to speak. But it seems to me that this is a case where spreading the risk through some kind of insurance program is appropriate, and affordable.

    Before we can figure out HOW to go about that, we have to kill off mistaken views about what is going on. Part of the problem with our health care system is that we refuse to recognize the diffference between health care and death care.

  25. James Bacon Avatar
    James Bacon

    Ray, ever hear of long-term care insurance? It’s not cheap, but it sure beats landing in a nursing home without it.

  26. Hydra Avatar
    Hydra

    Yes, I have long term care insurance, since I have no children. However, it probably would not be available to me, except through my company plan (It is however portable.) If I am not mistaken, it is also a relatively new product, and, it pays a flat amount, there is no inflation protection in case nursing home fees go up drastically, (along with everything else) when we default.

    It is a help, but no panacea.

    This suggestion strikes me like one of those DIY home magazines or weekend shows. If you followed every preventive maintenance and other tip they offer, you would never do anything else. Here is the problem: If you suffer a catastrophic illness, like a major herat attack or stroke, it will probably kill you before you get to the nursing home, but not before you incur major bills for that triple bypass. If you avoid all those, then you may be more likely to land in a nursing home.

    That means you need two big, major, expensive forms of insurance, and you are likely to use only one. And if you don’t count on social security insurance, then you need to fund your own self insurance for your retirement, to the tune of 3/4 million or so. All of this is a nice idea, but for many families it is totally out of reach. And, under Larry’s scensario, if one gets sick, he would have to spend ALL of that savings before he could get any help, leaving the wife nothing to live on.

    Surely there is a better way, but I don’t see private enterprise jumping up with any handy dandy answers. Besides, if you think you cannot count on social security, what in gods name makes you think you can count on private insurance? My experience has mostly been that they cheat me and then I sue them to get what they promised.

  27. Hydra Avatar
    Hydra

    In order to keep your long term care insurance in force, you must plan on making payments throughout your retirement years. I suspect the insurors count on this. Sell you a plan while you are still working, knowing they will collect for a few years and you will ultimately drop the plan, sort of like the health club membership plan.

    Figuring what I might actually be able to afford long term, when retired meant that I could only get a minimal plan which will cover only part of my expenses, if I need it. And there would need to be a separate plan for the wife.

    Pretty soon it is easy to see why this needs to be a socialized (or mandatory) plan, there are too many risks for an individual to insure against all of them, when he is likely to get hit by only one.

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