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What Leadership Looks Like – Teacher Shortages, Learning Losses and Gov. Youngkin

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sherlockj
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by James C. Sherlock

Sometimes you just have to let leaders speak for themselves.

This is one of those times.

Faced with critical teacher shortages and learning losses, I publish here the Governor’s Executive Order 3 and Bridging the Gap: Learning Loss Recovery Plan

I don’t just congratulate the governor, but everyone involved, especially including the fifteen school divisions who agreed to try to become part of the solution in learning losses.

Quoting:

EXECUTIVE DIRECTIVE NUMBER THREE (2022) ADDRESSING TEACHER SHORTAGES IN VIRGINIA SCHOOLS

By virtue of the authority vested in me as Governor, I hereby issue this Executive Directive to address the Commonwealth’s teacher shortages by removing obstacles that prevent qualified individuals from filling critical vacancies.

Importance of the Initiative

Consistent with national trends, Virginia is seeing teacher shortages. There are few professionals who are more dedicated and hardworking than teachers. Educating Virginia’s children requires a strong teacher pipeline and workforce. Recruiting, growing, and retaining high-quality teachers is crucial to ensuring a best-in-class education for our students. One of my Administration’s top priorities is to ensure we provide a great teacher for every classroom in every school in Virginia.

The widening achievement gaps in the latest results from our Standards of Learning state assessments demand action. Our children are still recovering from devastating learning loss and other effects of school shutdowns. We must pursue a comprehensive approach to supporting teacher recruitment and retention efforts.

Directive

Accordingly, pursuant to the authority vested in me as the Chief Executive Officer of the Commonwealth, and pursuant to Article V of the Constitution of Virginia and the laws of the Commonwealth, I hereby direct my administration to take the following actions to address the current teacher shortage:

  1. The Superintendent of Public Instruction shall use all discretion within law to issue teaching and renewal licenses, including to teachers licensed in another state and retired teachers whose licenses may have lapsed.
  2. The Superintendent of Public Instruction shall coordinate with the Virginia Retirement System to ensure that all vacant K-12 teaching positions are classified to allow retired teachers to fill them.
  3. The Secretary of Education shall collaborate with the Superintendent of Public Instruction, the Secretary of Finance, the Secretary of Labor, and the Commissioner of the Department of Labor and Industry to develop additional legislative proposals to reduce red tape associated with teacher licensure, while ensuring high standards, in order to recruit more out of state teachers, retired teachers, career switchers, military veterans and other professionals with much to offer students.
  4. The Superintendent of Public Instruction shall target teacher recruitment and retention efforts to the communities and subject areas most in need by:
    1. targeting discretionary grants for teacher recruitment and retention bonuses to school divisions with the highest and most persistent teacher vacancy rates;
    2. coordinating teacher recruitment and retention dollars to maximize teacher benefits;
    3. targeting recruitment incentives toward existing, previously filled positions, rather than those newly established through the federal government’s COVID-19 relief funds which expire in 2024;
  5. The Superintendent of Public Instruction and the Commissioner of the Department of Labor and Industry shall establish a registered teacher occupation apprenticeship program with school divisions and educator preparation providers to train and license new teachers, including paraprofessional educators.
  6. The Superintendent of Public Instruction shall issue a statewide model policy to establish childcare specialist apprenticeship opportunities for high school students.
  7. The Secretary of Education shall develop policies, including any potential legislation, to support childcare operating inside of schools to benefit both teachers and local families.
  8. The Superintendent of Public Instruction shall ensure that all teachers who are eligible are fully informed of their opportunity to apply for the Child Care Subsidy Program, a public-private parent choice program that serves as a national model for early childhood education and care, as well as other child care opportunities.
  9. The Superintendent of Public Instruction shall expand and improve the annual survey of school divisions to identify critical, unfilled teaching positions, emphasizing those needed to meet the Standards of Quality. The Superintendent of Public Instruction shall develop and annually administer a qualitative survey for all returning teachers to identify what is working, as well as all exiting teachers to identify the main causes of teachers transitioning jobs or leaving the profession.

Effective Date

This Executive Directive shall be effective upon its signing and shall remain in force and effect unless amended or rescinded by further executive order or directive. Given under my hand and under the Seal of the Commonwealth of Virginia this 1st day of September 2022.

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Glenn Youngkin, Governor

The Governor also announced Bridging the Gap: Learning Loss Recovery Plan

Bridging the Gap is a critical piece of the Commonwealth of Virginia’s effort to restore educational excellence to Virginia’s public schools. This initiative will spotlight some of the great programs, intervention strategies, and successes that school divisions across Virginia are implementing now, while supporting more innovative applications of data-driven instruction and increasing the capacity for every school to strengthen their relationships with parents and student caregivers.

This transformational approach will:

  1. Provide individualized student data reports so that every K-8 student, parent and teacher has all of a student’s assessment information in an understandable, actionable report. This information about student proficiency and learning loss empowers these critical stakeholders to make the best decisions to ensure every child is prepared for life.
  2. Ensure every student who is not on track has a Personalized Learning Plan that commits to a set of actions that teachers, parents, and students will take to address learning gaps. These Personalized Learning Plans will be developed and executed in partnership with teachers, parents, and students.
  3. Provide comprehensive training to teachers on how to communicate with parents and students about where a student is academically and the steps that will be taken together to get a student to grade-level proficiency.

Fifteen school divisions are participating in the pilot, with the key task of trading ideas about how to reach its goals.

The 15 partner school divisions in Bridging the Gap are:

  • Amherst County Public Schools
  • Bristol Public Schools
  • Caroline County Public Schools
  • Charlottesville Public Schools
  • Chesterfield County Public Schools
  • Craig County Public Schools
  • Cumberland County Public Schools
  • Dinwiddie County Public Schools
  • Franklin County Public Schools
  • Gloucester County Public Schools
  • Hanover County Public Schools
  • Lynchburg Public Schools
  • Pittsylvania County Public Schools
  • Stafford County Public Schools
  • Williamsburg-James City County Public Schools

“This pilot year will provide partner school divisions with access to individualized student data reports, support developing a personalized learning plan model that meets their needs, and continual training from the VDOE and its partners. Participation in the pilot will not necessarily include an entire division; Education leaders can choose the schools or programs that may most benefit from participation.”

“We believe in partnerships and the power of collective expertise. VDOE will use this pilot year to collect and implement feedback from superintendents, school leaders, parents, and teachers so that the initiative is responsive to unique local needs. By the time students head back to school in 2023, every student, parent, and teacher should have access to these individualized student data reports, personalized learning plans as needed, and comprehensive teacher training.”

My Take:  That, my friends, is leadership from the Governor down to the participating school divisions.

I fully expect, and so do you, that the Biden administration will try to prevent this from working or at least being seen as a good idea, especially before the mid-terms.

I hope not.

But if history teaches us, they will not be able to abide Glenn Youngkin achieving a victory in addressing education crises.

Neither will their acolytes.

But we live in Virginia.  And this brings light into the darkness that has been the prospects for our public schools.

Godspeed.

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Comments

181 responses to “What Leadership Looks Like – Teacher Shortages, Learning Losses and Gov. Youngkin”

  1. MisterChips Avatar
    MisterChips

    Thanks Governor Youngkin! Here’s a big piece of what you need to know for your survey: I’ve spent the last week in meetings and training (MTSS, VTSS, PBIS, SOL, Cultural Competency, etc..) Lots of complaints from teachers about those things but no complaints about pay or angry parents. The next step is to do away with SOL testing. I know this is purely anecdotal but I started teaching in 1996 (before SOL testing) and I am certain that the overall quality of our product (educated graduates prepared for work or college) has gone down. A lot. 26 years and billions of dollars and very little to show for it besides the money Texas Instruments and Pearson have made and the bloated administrative bureaucracy. Taxpayers should be outraged.
    How much money has been spent by Virginia and local school districts on SOL testing?

    1. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
      Dick Hall-Sizemore

      If you are in one of those districts participating in the pilot program, you are in for more meetings and training and paperwork on the preparation of individualized student data reports and Personalized Learning Plans as well as “training to teachers on how to communicate with parents and students about where a student is academically and the steps that will be taken together to get a student to grade-level proficiency.”

      1. James C. Sherlock Avatar
        James C. Sherlock

        Those school divisions volunteered to participate with full knowledge of the requirements.

        In those divisions, they will provide for the pilot individual schools whose principals also volunteer.

        You would guess those volunteers want to help solve a problem that they experience every day.

      2. MisterChips Avatar
        MisterChips

        I’m ok with meetings and training if the approach is truly transformational. (I’m naturally skeptical but trying to be open-minded). Every job has annoying parts and I’m willing to do it but I want to feel like I’m accomplishing something with my hard work. I want to feel like the education system is working to produce educated and thoughtful graduates. Right now a lot of us feel like we’re fighting the system. A system that appears to be indifferent to real learning and education.

        1. LarrytheG Avatar
          LarrytheG

          In arguing against “the system”, it comes across as essentially opposed to education as an organized institution and true whether public schools operated by the govt or private schools operated by non-govt entities.

          Any/all such institutions are organized and have rules … it’s the nature of the beast.

    2. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
      Dick Hall-Sizemore

      If you are in one of those districts participating in the pilot program, you are in for more meetings and training and paperwork on the preparation of individualized student data reports and Personalized Learning Plans as well as “training to teachers on how to communicate with parents and students about where a student is academically and the steps that will be taken together to get a student to grade-level proficiency.”

    3. James Wyatt Whitehead Avatar
      James Wyatt Whitehead

      I empathize with Mister Chips. Every word is true.

    4. LarrytheG Avatar
      LarrytheG

      You take away SOLs and mandatory “reporting” and Sherlock and fellow Conservatives have lost their main argument!

      1. MisterChips Avatar
        MisterChips

        SOL scores are a red herring. The blue team and red team fight about whether the scores show progress or proof of learning or whatever but it’s not real. You can pass the SOL tests with very little actual learning because the curriculum is packed with nothing but test prep. The SOL test drives the curriculum and the only goal of the curriculum is to pass a test that is meaningless, except for the little detail that you don’t graduate if you don’t pass the right ones. I’m afraid I can’t discuss the actual test because if I look at it or talk about it I can get fired. A clever little system they’ve developed.

        1. LarrytheG Avatar
          LarrytheG

          Because of NCLB, every state is required to do standardized testing. Some states have tough tests and some have easier tests but they provide a valuable assessment of a given state when compared to NAEP testing.

          The point of SOLs, NAEP and standardized testing in general is to MEASURE academic progress on core skills and competencies.

          Without it, we don’t know if what we are doing is effective or not.

          So, you SHOULD “discuss” the issue of measuring in general.

          Is it something you support?

          1. MisterChips Avatar
            MisterChips

            Absolutely. But measure what counts. We are testing like crazy and spending absurd amounts of money and time and we still don’t know what’s effective. Maybe I’m arguing against the current iteration of the tests. The public may not know it but we are only measuring the percentage of students who pass a test; not what percentage of students understands and has mastery of a given subject. That’s very different. In addition, people who have never seen this testing in person would be shocked at the amount of money and time allocated. It disrupts schools for weeks. I suspect we could get very similar (but not perfect) statistical validity with a much simpler test structure. It just wouldn’t make as much money for Pearson Education, Inc.
            We need to test for mastery of a subject in a meaningful and measurable way.

        2. Warmac9999 Avatar
          Warmac9999

          SOLs were very useful in the first couple of years and then the education system found ways to diminish their effectiveness.

          1. MisterChips Avatar
            MisterChips

            Exactly! And 25 years later we’re talking about scores up or down when the real problem is curriculum. The masses have no idea how schools game these tests.

  2. Nancy Naive Avatar
    Nancy Naive

    And, I called it.

  3. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
    Dick Hall-Sizemore

    A lot of this is fluff to make it seem as if the Governor is doing something. Let’s look at the individual steps in the Executive Order:

    1. Supt. to issue teacher licenses. The Governor is ordering her to do what she is supposed to do under law.

    2. Make sure all vacant teaching positions are classified under VRS. How much of a problem is that?

    3. Usual stuff about red tape. If legislation is needed, that is not going to be much of a help this year or next.

    4. Target incentive money. The major state retention incentive money available is a $808,000 appropriation. The Appropriation Act stipulates that it be used for “schools experiencing difficulty in recruiting qualified teachers.” Therefore, the Supt. is already required by law to do what the Governor is directing her to do.

    5. The Governor wants to set up an apprencticeship program for teachers? How is that going to fit into the current licensure requirements? And what are “paraprofessional educators”? Is this a fancy word for teachers’ aides, which we already have? If so, why is there a need for a training program? Wouldn’t this be introducing more regulations and red tape?

    6. “Establish childcare specialist apprenticeship opportunities for high school students.” The Governor wants to set up apprenticeship programs for baby sitters?

    7. “Support childcare operating inside of schools to benefit both teachers and local families.” The Governor wants to set up government-operated day care centers? This is not a bad idea, although the private sector is going to pretty upset about the idea. Also, it comes pretty close to a pre-K program, which Republicans have long opposed. Of course, any possible benefits will be somewhere in the future.
    9. Surveys of returning teacher and exiting teachers. This is needed and would be very helpful. Of course, this is more paperwork for returning teachers. Furthermore, I am not sure how one could require exiting teachers to complete them. The ones in that group that are the most disaffected would likely be the ones most likely to participate.

    As for the pilot program, in theory it is a good idea. In fact, it incorporates some steps that good teachers should already be doing, such as coming up with plans to help students that are behind and reaching out to parents of children who are behind to discuss what can be done to help those kids. On the whole, however, as good as it looks, this initiative will have the effect of creating more paperwork for teachers and requiring them to spend even more time at school in meetings with parents and administrators. Teachers already are complaining about the paperwork they have and the time they have to spend at school after classes end and at home to get their work done.

    1. James C. Sherlock Avatar
      James C. Sherlock

      As for the pilot program and your more paperwork comment, that is why it is a pilot and pilots demand evidence. To shape it to be of higher value than cost. Those 15 school divisions think it worth trying.

      If it does not work, it will be abandoned. VDOE generally cannot order school divisions to do what they do not want to do, that is why so many “Model Policies.”.

      To quote the initiative:

      “We believe in partnerships and the power of collective expertise. VDOE will use this pilot year to collect and implement feedback from superintendents, school leaders, parents, and teachers so that the initiative is responsive to unique local needs.”

      1. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
        Dick Hall-Sizemore

        I said that was a good idea, too. I was just pointing out the ramifications.

    2. James C. Sherlock Avatar
      James C. Sherlock

      “A lot of this is fluff to make it seem as if the Governor is doing something.”

      That is your political position and then you set out in your numbered paragraphs to try to prove it.

      Disappointing.

      First, it is not true. I am taking on your flippant assessments below.

      Second, the majority of teachers are demographically likely Democrats. So are, demographically, the parents.

      Third, if McAuliffe was governor your criticism would have been praise. As perhaps the most prolific author in the Commonwealth championing improving underperforming schools and stopping the ed schools from taking advantage of teachers, my support of this initiative would not have changed.

      If you call this “fluff”, that is your Democratic heart speaking, not your head.

      1. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
        Dick Hall-Sizemore

        It is “disappointing” that I try to back up my assertion?

        Being somewhat of a natural cynic and skeptic, I would have made the same comments if McAuliffe had made these proposals. McAuliffe had more than his share of fluff. I probably helped draft some of it and for other governors, as well, so I know it when I see it.

        You fail to acknowledge that I agreed with a couple of the proposals.

    3. James C. Sherlock Avatar
      James C. Sherlock

      A lot of parents cannot work in the schools because they cannot find child care. It is a supply problem that has driven the costs very high.

      Corporate child care centers are becoming a fact of life for the same reason the schools will now do it. More women in the work force and a shortage of labor combine to make it a necessary attraction for employees.

      Fact: most teachers are women of child bearing age. Many leave to raise their families. They cannot come back to teach until they can find child care for their kids.

      Apprenticeships for high school students are required to staff those in-school child care centers to take care of kids so that teachers with children can teach. You thought the clild care centers a good idea above right after trashing the only way to staff them.

      Government-facility child care centers are not new. The military bases have been doing it forever.

      The advantages of having child care in the school are obvious. Not just the proximity, but the flexibility in the times to drop them off and to pick them up.

      As for the private sector child care sector being upset, every licensed child care center in the state has more applicants than their staffs can service.

      1. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
        Dick Hall-Sizemore

        As I said, it is not a bad idea. When I was in high school, there were programs in which students worked part of the school day in local businesses (the DE and DO programs). Is the “apprenticeship” in child care centers something like this? I think this would be good, as well. However, I anticipate the private sector screaming that there is unfair competition. Not only would the government have the physical facilities without any cost, but would also have cheap labor. By the way, would these day-care centers run by the schools have to comply with the child care licensing regulations of the Dept of Education that are applicable to privately-run day care centers?

        1. James Wyatt Whitehead Avatar
          James Wyatt Whitehead

          Loudoun County high schools have a teacher cadet program that serves as early childhood education and a start at teacher training for teens. The weakness, the program was only during the school year. Needs to be year-round. Here is where the private providers have the edge.

      2. James C. Sherlock Avatar
        James C. Sherlock

        You wrote: “Support to issue teacher licenses. The Governor is ordering her to do what she is supposed to do under law.”

        Really, Dick, you reject out of hand the most important approach to immediately mitigating teacher shortages:

        “recruit more out of state teachers, retired teachers, career switchers, military veterans and other professionals with much to offer students.”

        The recruitment of retired teachers without them facing a VRS penalty will pay immediate dividends. I have one in my household that read the initiative and is going to go back and help if they need her here. She is excited about the opportunity to help.

        1. Nancy Naive Avatar
          Nancy Naive

          And which State has a surplus? None. Virginia is completing with 49 other states trying to fill shortages. Just to make it interesting, the US is competing with at least 20 other nations where they have shortages too. I say 20 because that’s upward mobility.

        2. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
          Dick Hall-Sizemore

          I don’t understand how you interpret my remarks as rejecting out of hand anything.

          I misunderstood the point about VRS. Right now, if I go back to work for the state or a VRS covered local position, I am no longer eligible to receive my VRS check. I assume that is true for teachers. Are you saying that VRS has the authority unilaterally to waive that requirement for teachers, resulting in a “retired” teacher going to back to teaching full-time, while also getting both her VRS check and a check from the school division?

          1. James Wyatt Whitehead Avatar
            James Wyatt Whitehead

            Yep! I know a few hearty souls that have done just that.

          2. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
            Dick Hall-Sizemore

            So, if it can already be done, why does the Governor have to put it in an Executive order for the Supt and VRS to do it?

          3. James Wyatt Whitehead Avatar
            James Wyatt Whitehead

            Some retired teachers have an expired license. So now they can be brought back, collect VRS, collect a salary, and pass go for 200 dollars. The move also prevents crooked school boards from classifying retired teachers back in the classroom as long term subs for the year when they should be full time paid/classified employees.

          4. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
            Dick Hall-Sizemore

            So, under the Governor’s proposal, a retired teacher with an expire license would not have to renew it? Under current law, such teacher could probably get a provisional license, but it would still have to be renewed. Has/can the Governor waived that requirement altogether?

            How would it prevent crooked school boards from using retired teachers as long term subs for the year? Would they be prevented from doing so? Under what authority? I agree that it would ethically wrong to do so.

          5. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            It wouldn’t. The double dipping is gonna get serious in certain parts of the state.

          6. MisterChips Avatar
            MisterChips

            A retired teacher in a critical shortage area like mathematics or special education can return to teaching following retirement after a 1 year separation and continue to receive a pension and full time salary but no further accrual of VRS service credit. The list of critical shortage areas changes year to year as needs change. Maybe the intention is to make more specialty areas “critical shortage”. Maybe they will even reduce the separation period. I love teaching math but I’ll have to sit on the sidelines for a year before I can return after retirement.

          7. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
            Dick Hall-Sizemore

            Thanks for explanation. I did not realize that was an option.

            However, I somehow don’t think this would be a such a large pool that it would make much of a dent in the shortage. If a teacher were going to return after a year or more of retirement, I would think he or she would have done so regardless of the current shortage.

          8. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            Is this something Youngkin can address?

    4. James C. Sherlock Avatar
      James C. Sherlock

      ” Make sure all vacant teaching positions are classified under VRS. How much of a problem is that?”

      If it was not a problem the directive would not have been written to fix it. A broader problem, which they also address, is the recruiting for those positions. It is not a system in Virginia. It is localized, disorganized, and hard to navigate if you are a teacher looking for opportunities in Virginia.

      1. Nancy Naive Avatar
        Nancy Naive

        Yeah, like ULM never made a directive out of what workers have always done.

    5. James Wyatt Whitehead Avatar
      James Wyatt Whitehead

      “A lot of this is fluff to make it seem as if the Governor is doing something.”

      I agree with the spirit of the statement Mr. Dick. This problem has been a known quantity since Memorial Day. Documented over and over by Mr. B and the Captain. Why did Glenn Y. wait until Labor Day?

      He clearly underestimated the problem that was going to fester without action.

      1. James C. Sherlock Avatar
        James C. Sherlock

        A Governor cannot declare policy that is as intertwined with federal and state laws as education without a lot of complex staff work, coordination and legal opinions. Just a fact. These two initiatives thread a lot of needles.

  4. LarrytheG Avatar
    LarrytheG

    A lot of what Youngkin is “ordering” is already well within the purview of VDOE and I’m pretty sure the school systems want to get guidance about the new requirements for Individual plans. I know everyone LOVES THEM. I’m not sure what happens when a a teacher says “Johnny needs a reading specialist” and the one they got is already snowed under with other individual plans.

    Words do matter when it comes to resources and money and my bet is that schools and VDOE are going to pay a lot of attention to the additional resources needed AND ask Youngkin to provide them and he’ll have to decide if the “surplus” should be for tax cuts or to fund his directives.

    And I REALLY , LIKE this:

    ” The Secretary of Education shall collaborate with the Superintendent of Public Instruction, the Secretary of Finance, the Secretary of Labor, and the Commissioner of the Department of Labor and Industry to develop additional legislative proposals to reduce red tape associated with teacher licensure, while ensuring high standards, in order to recruit more out of state teachers, retired teachers, career switchers, military veterans and other professionals with much to offer students.”

    Talk about hand-waving. Are there ANY specifics at all or is this just grade A blather?

    Oh, and Biden is going to oppose it? Wow! Talk about partisan paranoia!

    So, the GOP and Conservatives are playing this game now – but it’s gonna bite them in the butt big time. Stand by.

  5. Eric the half a troll Avatar
    Eric the half a troll

    And here I thought that the primary cause of the teacher shortage was lack of school discipline… at least according to BR contributors… and yet not a word in Youngkin’s “solution”… 🤷‍♂️

    1. LarrytheG Avatar
      LarrytheG

      Yeah, the other funny thing, is all the _itching about regulations, rules and paperwork… for employed teachers but for “recruits” that all goes away so they can be easily hired and subject to the rules for employed teachers…

      😉

    2. James C. Sherlock Avatar
      James C. Sherlock

      A lot of things still to do, with what Virginia calls “learning environment” – chronic absenteeism, crime and discipline still on the agenda.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        you might find this article interesting:

        https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/25e4c62d6f5dbef0116420e1a00a40d6c6e27b319818ffad6c9a90e3b69c73ca.jpg

        https://fredericksburg.com/eedition/page-a001/page_fbda8d80-3f7c-5554-b538-acc3524e0bfe.html

  6. Warmac9999 Avatar
    Warmac9999

    I would like to teach one day per week during the late morning. I have a phd in engineering and science, have been a professor, developed courses in science, technology and engineering, have run my own business, but have no Virginia teacher licenses. Can I be accommodated? Yes, this is a debate question regarding how far will Virginia go to get someone with such capabilities or do I have to bend to arbitrary bureaucratic rules?

    Ps: I am not willing to attend BS sessions that merely enhance more BS bureaucracy.

    1. LarrytheG Avatar
      LarrytheG

      If we believe Youngkin, he WANTS you AND he wants VDOE to make it easy for schools to hire you.

      That’s the theory for sure.

      One thing he COULD DO is similar to his TIP line – give a single .gov email for interested to make their initial contact then funnel those folks to a specific person or office in VDOE who will get you to a school. That would be good!

      1. Warmac9999 Avatar
        Warmac9999

        Let’s assume that could be done. Now can I create my own lesson plan or am I handed one. As a creative individual, I would not like to be specialized but select important topics like – what is math, what is science, what is economics, what is systems engineering, what is geography – and, of course, why are they important and let’s do an experiment. In other word, can a group of lessons be tailored to my capabilities.

        Ps: the most economically illiterate individuals are our kids.

        1. LarrytheG Avatar
          LarrytheG

          ohh… I’m not even sure Conservatives would want you to do your own curriculum… gotta be something that is standard, available to all.. can be measured , etc… Not even sure private school works that way.

          1. Warmac9999 Avatar
            Warmac9999

            Once you escape the chains, anything is possible. We have gotten stuck by process is more important than results. Think about that for a minute because that is what happens when you pass an illiterate kid on to the next grade because it is convenient to do so. Ah, the process worked. See, he is now in the next grade.

            Ps: a private school based on vouchers can design its curriculum to meet student and teacher needs and wants. The parents chose if they want expert based learning or Montessori type facilitated learning or even all experimental learning. The market rules.

          2. James Wyatt Whitehead Avatar
            James Wyatt Whitehead

            This reads like a page out of Horace’s Compromise. Theodore Sizer would agree with much of what you wrote.

          3. Warmac9999 Avatar
            Warmac9999

            Bureaucracy has frozen out the retired and the specialist. This is millions of people who either don’t qualify or who simply won’t play stupid games.

          4. James Wyatt Whitehead Avatar
            James Wyatt Whitehead

            Amen. I will not play the game any longer.

          5. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            There are a lot of different kinds of venues for one to share his/her specialized knowledge.

            Most K-12 schools both public and private have some specific things they need to prioritize so that each kid ends up with some basic skills of reading, writing and arithmetic.

            However, if there were ever an opportunity to change public education, Youngkin now offers it.

          6. Warmac9999 Avatar
            Warmac9999

            One of the main reasons I favor vouchers is they foster educational excellence. No monopoly can do that. Will vouchers be perfect – no. But competition will weed out most failures.

          7. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            Not really. It’s just a claim without much proof.

            No voucher school can operate off of tax dollars with no defined curriculum. That would be the point of using tax dollars for specific purposes provided by folks taxes.

            Isn’t that akin to saying if we gave our tax dollars to private contractors, they could do a better highway system. No proof, just a claim?

          8. Warmac9999 Avatar
            Warmac9999

            Who built the original highway system before there were cars? Why are the road built the way they are?

            As far as tax dollars, one state just said vouchers are the way to go and will be paid for by the state. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. Or even worse, doubling down in hopes than more regulation will somehow improve things. Let’s not become California.

            As far as a defined curriculum is concerned, do you really think a social justice focused curriculum should supplant the 3Rs based curriculum. Ideology should not be more important than education.

          9. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            Vouchers without defining how they work is insanity.

            We don’t spend tax dollars on things not defined.

            California for all it’s faults is bigger than 200 other countries on the planet. Can’t be doing everything wrong.

            If social justice were the ONLY thing in the curriculum, it’s not.

            The education level of kids in Virginia rank in the top 10 against other states on reading, math, writing and science.

            They actually rank #2 on science I think.

            Point is they gotta teach them a defined curriculum and test.

            It’s not an Ad Hock thing.

          10. Warmac9999 Avatar
            Warmac9999

            Vouchers are trial and error. They invite things to be tested in the marketplace of educational ideas. There is no one size fits all and that is a good thing. One of our local public schools is going to go all Montessori. Will it work? Don’t know as it is up against all the regulatory restrictions.

            Of course we spend money on things not defined. What do you think science is. Yesterday’s fantasy is today’s reality. If Elon Musk thought your way, we wouldn’t have Spacex or Tesla.

            Why is Virginia not #1? That is what we should shoot for across the board. I would ask how do we get there – and it sure isn’t wasting time on CRT or some other social justice silliness. Life is tough. Snowflakery won’t help.

          11. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            We don’t generally tax people to do trail and error ideas for the core curriculum. We tweak it.

            We do spend money on science but even that has to provide what the “idea” is and compete with other ideas for grants.

            Elon Musk is mostly an idiot. Both Tesla and SpaceX are going to fail because he cannot understand cost effectiveness and practicalities.

            Why is ANY state not Number 1 ? Because all 50 cannot be number 1?

            You seem to be “coming out” here right? Right wing all the way, right?

            You should get with Gov Youngkin with your “idea”. He may go for it!

          12. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            We don’t generally tax people to do trial and error ideas for the core curriculum. We tweak it.

            We do spend money on science but even that has to provide what the “idea” is and compete with other ideas for grants that are limited.

            Elon Musk is mostly an idiot. Both Tesla and SpaceX are going to fail because he cannot understand cost effectiveness and practicalities. The only way those companies make it is in someone takes them over and converts them into viable enterprises.

            Why is ANY state not Number 1 ? Because all 50 cannot be number 1? Why not ask why California can’t be number 1? 😉

            You seem to be “coming out” here right? Right wing all the way, right?

            You should get with Gov Youngkin with your “idea”. He may go for it! He’s got folks on his staff that do relate to you.

          13. Warmac9999 Avatar
            Warmac9999

            This isn’t right wing or left wing. It is a discussion of alternatives to the status quo.

          14. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            No, it’s right wing all the way.

          15. Warmac9999 Avatar
            Warmac9999

            Take you ideological hat off and think more expansively. Ever hear of the Gordian Knot and how Alexander the Great solved the puzzle?

          16. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            more favorite right-wing fairy tales and myths?

            you guys amaze me with your “thinking”.

            are you talking about Gordian?

          17. Warmac9999 Avatar
            Warmac9999

            I am talking about cutting red tape.

          18. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            Yep. So is Youngkin creating more of it with his “directives” about individual student education “plans”?

          19. Warmac9999 Avatar
            Warmac9999

            But every state can compete to be number 1. If your attitude is why compete because I can’t win you are already defeated. Striving for excellence breeds excellence.

            So you favor Musk taking over Twitter. Interesting.

          20. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            Every state can and should and does compete. Do you think otherwise? you’re of in LA LA Land here.

          21. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            Elon Musk in charge of content moderation on ANYTHING? whoa!

          22. MisterChips Avatar
            MisterChips

            I like vouchers and competition but you don’t even need the vouchers. Pick a high school and give them some experimental latitude to do things differently, free of VDOE and USDOE constraints. Trust the principal and faculty to understand the community they serve and to make the school work for them. What we have doesn’t work. We need to do some experimenting to find innovative ways to educate all the children. Personally, I would go back to a chalk board and the 3 r’s.

          23. James Wyatt Whitehead Avatar
            James Wyatt Whitehead

            Put the staff in charge of the school. Have the teachers select the principal and other leaders.

          24. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            Oh yeah… ;-).

            Here’s change I WOULD support. Look at the countries who do better than us which is almost all the other developed countries. Look at their systems and how they work and adopt some of their practices.

            What Warmac9999 wants is not what is needed. The teacher shortage is not with respect to folks like him/her. It’s with respect to teachers in the fundamental skill areas – not the elective or AD HOC areas which are more easily filled and don’t have such major consequences if the teacher is not on track with the curriculum.

          25. Warmac9999 Avatar
            Warmac9999

            Actually, once vouchers in the hands of parents is granted, the public schools will demand to be allowed to compete with innovative methods. Happened in New Zealand about 3 or 4 decades ago.

          26. James C. Sherlock Avatar
            James C. Sherlock

            Breaking news – private contractor s do build our highway system.

          27. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            They do so under the guidance and rules of the govt that set standards that have to be performed.

            On top of that, new roads require eminent domain – something private contractors do not do.

          28. Warmac9999 Avatar
            Warmac9999

            Another story Larry: There is a product that would extend the life of the roads in Virginia. However, VDOT won’t allow its use because it competes with materials that meet the current standards. Why buy something better and cheaper when good enough has worked for decades.

          29. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            Total right wing BS. got a credible link? Nope.

          30. Warmac9999 Avatar
            Warmac9999

            There is another one by petroFerm. The Navy instituted the ombudsman to prevent standards from adversely impacting innovation.

          31. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            got any credible links?

          32. Warmac9999 Avatar
            Warmac9999

            There is a firm in Michigan that makes a new type of road. Also one in Australia. Why not VDOT.

          33. Warmac9999 Avatar
            Warmac9999

            Another story Larry: There is a product that would extend the life of the roads in Virginia. However, VDOT won’t allow its use because it competes with materials that meet the current standards. Why buy something better and cheaper when good enough has worked for decades.

          34. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            Have you ever heard of FHWA and VDOT?

            or for private doctors and hospitals – Medicare?

            or perhaps the Federal DOE and VDOE that set standards for private as well as public?

            You know this Sherlock. You actually advocate for more top-down govt rules and regs… including this Youngin-inspired stuff!

          35. Warmac9999 Avatar
            Warmac9999

            have you ever heard of concierge medicine.

            i advocate for less government, less rules, less regulation; and more individual liberty.

          36. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            I think if you presented yourself as someone who could make illiterate kids literate and you did, they’d cut you some slack.

          37. Warmac9999 Avatar
            Warmac9999

            If you focus on what is interesting to a kid, literacy will follow. However, if nothing interests a kid, you cannot make him or her more literate.

          38. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            Your job as a teacher is to work to motivate them, win them over, and get them on a track to be successful at life. Hard Job. Does not always succeed but way different than being an engineer or other non-teacher.

          39. Warmac9999 Avatar
            Warmac9999

            Since I have been a professor and taught hundreds of classes, I have a pretty good idea about what works and what doesn’t. Unfortunately, you can have all the tools and some students will simply not respond. The question has always been do you focus on kids who are really interested or do you ignore them and try to teach the most disinterested. Amongst us professors, that was a constant debate. The rule of thumb was 20% interested, 60% approachable, 20% don’t give a damn. What is your solution?

          40. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            You can’t possibly be who you claim as you seem to insist you want to teach what you want to teach and not adhere to any standards for curriculum.

            The job of the teacher is to reach as many kids as they can knowing that kids learn in different ways and need a professional who understands that and has the teaching tools need to adapt to different learning needs. You don’t sound like that.

          41. Warmac9999 Avatar
            Warmac9999

            I have used various teaching styles – pedagogy (lecture) andragogy (facilitation) and experiment (design and build to specification). I have also taught “how to think outside the box” and if you read what I am writing here it is primarily about “outside the box”. Outside the box is by far the most difficult because you have to suspend your prejudices.

          42. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            You primary job is to insure that your students learn and can use what they learn as a foundation for further learning.

            “outside the box” is not for some students but more for a small number who excel. You are also responsible for the ones who are average and don’t necessarily excel.

            That’s the fundamental job of any teacher in K-12.

            Even in college, if you are a professor where most of your class fails – you get a reputation as well as the attention of the school itself.

            People don’t want to be subjected to folks who think teaching makes them “king”.

          43. Warmac9999 Avatar
            Warmac9999

            Here is an example of a teacher as queen. Happened at George Mason a couple of decades ago. Teacher was radical feminist. Young men avoid her class because she would constantly insult them. She recruited other feminist students to attack and insult any other female student who displayed conservative tendencies – would downgrade such students as well. The college administration, a bunch of cowards, knew the situation and wouldn’t touch her even though students would complain that they paid their course fee only to be run out of the class and lose the money.

            One day, said teacher was teaching an individual high up in a political position in the DC area. The teacher didn’t know who the individual was and proceeded to use her normal insulting tactics. The student went to the administration and threatened to withhold funds for the University. Guess who got fired. The scandal made the news so you can check it out if you wish.

      2. Warmac9999 Avatar
        Warmac9999

        Why couldn’t schools have an experts day where specialists can give a lecture/class to interested students. Some classes might have 30 kids and others 5 – so what. You the student pick the expertise you are interested in. By the way, I am not just talking high school but k through 12.

        1. James Wyatt Whitehead Avatar
          James Wyatt Whitehead

          Randolph Macon Academy in Front Royal has something like this. Called a J term. For the entire month of January cadets immerse themselves in a particular area of interest. Some kids picked drones/aerospace, others selected a STEM based program, my daughter picked outdoor survival. Outside experts vetted by the school assisted with the instruction. Very popular program and a nice transition between fall and spring semesters.

          1. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            As an “elective” pretty cool for sure.

          2. Warmac9999 Avatar
            Warmac9999

            It is designed into the curriculum. That is the point.

          3. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            I know public schools do invite people from different fields to come and offer their perspectives with respect to their occupations and professions.

            Is that what you’re saying?

          4. Warmac9999 Avatar
            Warmac9999

            No. I am talking about teaching not offering an employment perspective. I am talking about real literacy not “look at what I do. You could do it someday”. Ever hear of the mousetrap car? This is thinking and doing.

          5. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            So you want to be the one who decides what should be taught or not?

          6. Warmac9999 Avatar
            Warmac9999

            Absolutely. I am offering a results based service not a process based one. If you want to give me a general goal for a type of literacy result fine, but don’t tell me that I have to follow a restrictive set of regulations to do so. Further, I have no interest in your certification processes. I have seen how poor quality teachers hide behind a batch of certifications.

          7. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            but it’s what you think, right? Who made you the top expert – the king of education?

          8. Warmac9999 Avatar
            Warmac9999

            In my class, I am the expert. If you don’t want what I offer, then fine. I don’t want to enter a teaching situation where I can’t teach. At the moment in time when I am in the classroom, I am the top expert. If I am not,then why am I there?

          9. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            You claim to be the expert. We don’t know that you actually are and you certainly are not an expert for the other needed subjects. I don’t see how you’d fit into a school if the idea was to have a bunch of folks like you all doing their own thing.

            That would not even work in a private or voucher school.

          10. Warmac9999 Avatar
            Warmac9999

            See Comment above on Randolph Macon Academy. Also, take a really good look at how home schooling operates. A mom is not an expert but she knows how to get the expertise she needs either online or from other parents.

          11. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            THen why do we need you in the first place?

            Do you think that Moms and other parents themselves know the subject matter their kids need. Who do they go to for that content?

          12. Warmac9999 Avatar
            Warmac9999

            I have suggested that you have frozen out many individuals with phenomenal backgrounds and skills simply by over regulation and over certification. Thus process is more important to you than results. If you really want more teachers, then stop with making it difficult for people with overwhelming competencies to teach in the schools. Essentially, you have said that the type of credentials I have shown is inadequate. Take a good look once again and ask yourself not about me personally but about the cumulative nature of the credentials. I think you are more interested in complaining about a teacher shortage than actually solving it.

            Oh, by the way, I would not consider teaching in any public school under the current bureaucratic circumstances.

          13. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            Not inadequate, incompatible.

            Credentials are necessary in all professions whether a Doctor or a police officer or a highway engineer.

            It’s not an evil thing but a very necessary thing for most things in the world to work.

            I sure as heck don’t want someone who calls themself a doctor treating me.

            I don’t want someone flying the plane who claims to be a pilot.

            etc, etc.

          14. Warmac9999 Avatar
            Warmac9999

            Well, too bad for the nation then. I think there are plenty of doctors, policemen, highway engineers, and pilots who would love a second career teaching kids but can’t because of bureaucracy.

          15. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            You do want folks certified for their professions, right?

            Do you want a doctor not to be certified – ?

          16. Warmac9999 Avatar
            Warmac9999

            Certifications are minimums. And, as we see across too many professions, standards are being dropped.. Do you want a pilot who passes the certification to land a 747 on a 1000 foot runway or one only certified to land on a 3000 foot runway. Take medicine, do you want a doctor who has qualified to do open heart surgery but has never done so – or a doctor who has performed a thousand such surgeries with a 98% survival rate.

            I sure don’t want a teacher who has a bunch of certifications but actually can’t teach. And we both know such teachers exist. Great resume – lousy result in the classroom.

          17. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            I’ll take certifications , flaws and all, over no certifications.

            Here you are arguing both sides of this argument!

          18. Warmac9999 Avatar
            Warmac9999

            I am arguing that certifications are minimums. An individual who gets more than the minimum is not rewarded. Reduction in certification standards can easily be dangerous – in the military or medicine.

          19. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            and in “career-switching” teachers?

          20. Warmac9999 Avatar
            Warmac9999

            I don’t get your point. A certification minimum is still a minimum regardless of the grade you get. Passing gets you a cert. An A+ gets what? Self satisfaction in that you aced the course?

          21. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            Do you support additional requirements that have to be met to switch careers and become a teacher? Do you think a teacher has distinct skillsets different from say an engineer or military guy/gal?

            If half your class fails, is that a reflection of the students or the teacher?

          22. Warmac9999 Avatar
            Warmac9999

            It depends. If an engineer is directing a program team with dozens of individuals, he may already have the skill set without spending 6 months in a classroom to get a teacher certification. I would give the individual a chance in a classroom without certification and I would certainly do so if said individual has actually taught some classes.

            As far as class failure, it depends. If you put massive disruptive forces in a classroom, no teacher can overcome such forces and the entire class suffers because of the disruption. On the other hand, if you put an inept teacher in a classroom, even a perfect class with get a suboptimal education – i have seen students actually takeover such classes..

          23. Warmac9999 Avatar
            Warmac9999

            All of the professionals you mention had to go to school and be taught. Thus, many of them understanding teaching, particularly pedagogy. Many of these people have had to give lectures as well as write papers and inputs to manuals. All of these things make for compatibility.

          24. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            Not at all. Just because you “learned” yourself does NOT make you an effective or “qualified” teacher. You’re treating teaching as if it’s not a profession which is really ignorant.

          25. Warmac9999 Avatar
            Warmac9999

            teaching is a profession but it is also an ability. see Socrates question method for teaching students.

          26. Warmac9999 Avatar
            Warmac9999

            So, what you are saying is that teachers aren’t or shouldn’t be an expert in anything. Now that is quite an insight. By the way, do you really think that a teacher is a teacher just because of a degree or certification? I sure don’t.

            Oh, you can visit any class I teach any time you wish – unlike some of these indoctrinators pretending to be teachers who hide their agenda. I will be focusing on the facts of a relevant topic like reading, writing and arithmetic. You can focus on CRT all you want.

            Now, what do you think happens with online experts teaching subjects. You do realize that you can get a diploma or degree without ever setting foot in a physical classroom. The military does it all the time. And by the way, signup is course by course leading to a collection of credits and a degree is subsequently granted. Only time you have to be physically on-site is the doctorate – and even that is changing for most subjects.

          27. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            Teachers are professionals in knowing and understanding the building blocks necessary for a child to learn how to read or write or do math.

            Later on, you need folks that know Chemistry, Spanish, shop and even sports.

            You sound just like a right wing wacadoodle guy.

            Most all teachers are good people with good motives who do care about kids and want to help them learn and become educated.

            You sound pretty messed up to me.

          28. Warmac9999 Avatar
            Warmac9999

            I think most teachers are good people stymied by over regulation and ideological requirements that have nothing to do with the public’s education.

            The Education of the public at large starts with numbers and letters. Do you really think that little ones can’t learn those things in a way that encourages them to challenge themselves and grow with a desire to learn? And by the way, science and shop start when a little one makes something, sports start when a little one runs and jumps or does a somersault. You are trying to segment learning by pedogogy and there are numerous other ways to teach.

            And stop with the insults. This is a debate and insults are ignorant.

          29. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            When Virginia ranks in the top 10 nationally, teachers, principles and administrators are doing something right.

            “learning” is what you need after you start to jump and build things. Most folks benefit from teachers helping them learn to read and other fundamentals necessary to do the more advanced things.

            Thomas Jefferson himself was an advocate.

            I do apologize for the insult but we’re done “debating” – you are way far gone on the issues in my view. I don’t see much room for the “middle”.

            Public schools are a fundamental aspect of civilized countries. Ever single developed country in the world has some form of public education and they are successful – more successful than the US because we do not emphasize critical thinking enough.

            I just support standards for everything whether it be roads or drugs or fire, police and schools.

            It does not prevent anyone from going further on their own but it provides a foundation for all to build on.

          30. Warmac9999 Avatar
            Warmac9999

            Well, in a debate of this kind, all ideas are appropriate. Once you decide to cherry pick based on your view alone, you have imposed censorship. Thus even the opportunity to find a diamond in that manure pile is lost.

          31. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            nope. You have a very limited view. Standards make the world go around and standards actual empower innovation and creativity IMO.

            Standards protect us from folks who would do what they think even when wrong.

          32. Warmac9999 Avatar
            Warmac9999

            Little story. The DOD had some 40,000+ standards governing everything imaginable. Problem was they stymied innovation and innovation is key to survival in combat. So, the new secretary of acquisition said two things. Find me the must have standards – there were 200 of them. Find an alternative way to bypass the standards so I can buy the latest necessary things – an entirely new acquisition process was created.

            One other little story. DoD provided the troops with military certified cell phones. The troops threw them away and bought iPhones. Want to guess why?

          33. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            Total BS, coming from someone who did work at a DOD lab.

            Why would the military provide cell phones to troops in the first place? How about a cite?

            You DO realize that cell phones do allow adversaries to “track” don’t you? That would be Android or Apple.

            I have to wonder just what kind of “teacher” you are!

          34. Warmac9999 Avatar
            Warmac9999

            I worked for DoD secretary of acquisition and participated in the study. I was one who designed the ASRD&E bypass to the standards.

            The cell phone story is well known and involved weight and lack of reliability. As far as tracking, there are now encryption programs that scramble location.

          35. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            how about a credible link backing up your claim? should be easy.

            Are you at all familiar with how location works on phone and fitness trackers?

            I think you are full of it guy:

          36. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/9fd60754c962718bad13b91b6d07e4020ee7c06d6b4e9995afe1c60e6274eb76.jpg

          37. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            When Virginia ranks in the top 10 nationally, teachers, principles and administrators are doing something right.

            “learning” is what you need after you start to jump and build things. Most folks benefit from teachers helping them learn to read and other fundamentals necessary to do the more advanced things.

            Thomas Jefferson himself was an advocate.

            I do apologize for the insult but we’re done “debating” – you are way far gone on the issues in my view. I don’t see much room for the “middle”.

            Public schools are a fundamental aspect of civilized countries. Ever single developed country in the world has some form of public education and they are successful – more successful than the US because we do not emphasize critical thinking enough.

            I just support standards for everything whether it be roads or drugs or fire, police and schools.

            It does not prevent anyone from going further on their own but it provides a foundation for all to build on.

          38. James C. Sherlock Avatar
            James C. Sherlock

            You are doomed to a Sisyphean task dealing with this guy. The rock will never get to the top of the mountain. He will never stop responding. Like wrestling with a pig. You get muddy and the pig likes it.

          39. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            I’m saying that teaching in and of itself is a skill and that you can be an Einstein or think you are and be a terrible teacher.

            What schools are short of right now is not teachers like you want to be but teachers who CAN teach the fundamentals and that is a skill much more than knowledge of “content” per se.

          40. walter smith Avatar
            walter smith

            Larry – what are your qualifications to comment? You’re always wrong…
            I have taught “adult Bible fellowship” for 15 years…and I didn’t go to Seminary!
            Oh…the danger!

          41. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            Walter , I’ve taught Bible School also. qualifications to teach, comment, etc?

          42. walter smith Avatar
            walter smith

            So what were your qualifications? Do you have a PHD in religious studies? Did you go to seminary?

          43. Warmac9999 Avatar
            Warmac9999

            and you could teach to sunday school kids as well.

          44. Warmac9999 Avatar
            Warmac9999

            Smart not to let process get in the way of results. Process, via regulation, has killed California’s middle class who are now fleeing the state.

            And, of course, curriculum flexibility in a private school.

          45. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            If California were a country, it would be the 7th largest country in the world. Not too shabby.

          46. Warmac9999 Avatar
            Warmac9999

            If the middle class is abandoning the state, I would not brag about being the 7th largest because I am failing. Statistics, like polls, is a game. Ever wonder how pollsters come up with questions and phrases? The IRS has some 200 ways of asking essentially the same question.

          47. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            Not really true. It’s a right wing myth. Where are the facts for middle class for instance beyond your own unsubstantiated beliefs?

          48. Warmac9999 Avatar
            Warmac9999

            California population has dropped. Who do you think is leaving?

          49. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            Would you believe the data and statistics or not?

            It don’t matter who is leaving. It matters who is staying and if the California economy stays strong and maintains it’s position as 7 largest in the world.

          50. Warmac9999 Avatar
            Warmac9999

            Oh, it does matter who is leaving. And statistics are important in that regard. The success of America has been built by the middle class. People who build the small business. People who work in the grocery store – including the cleaning crew. People who drive the FedEx trucks. People who teach in the schools. Millions of non-celebrities who make our lives worthwhile.

          51. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            There’s WAY MORE staying than leaving….. right?

          52. Warmac9999 Avatar
            Warmac9999

            No. Latest population show more leaving than coming. If I recall correctly, California lost a House of Representatives seat because of it.

          53. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            Yep but they likely still have more middle income population that all other states , right?

            You’re focusing on data “noise”.

            As long as California’s GDP is the 7th best in the world, it indicates a healthy economy with a lot of middle income workers.

          54. Warmac9999 Avatar
            Warmac9999

            Oh, it does matter who is leaving. And statistics are important in that regard. The success of America has been built by the middle class. People who build the small business. People who work in the grocery store – including the cleaning crew. People who drive the FedEx trucks. People who teach in the schools. Millions of non-celebrities who make our lives worthwhile.

          55. walter smith Avatar
            walter smith

            U-haul one way rates…
            Price is truth
            Where are your comment credentials? You are always wrong.

          56. Warmac9999 Avatar
            Warmac9999

            I read about that. U-Haul knows it’s business and it’s costs.

          57. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            compared to your comment credentials? 😉 Shame. Shame Walter! Let me guess – wacadoodle 101, right?

    2. Nancy Naive Avatar
      Nancy Naive

      What would you teach on that one day? Will you coordinate your guest lecture with the curriculum? I have a CV that matches yours 1:1 and I cannot imagine how having a SME give one lecture per week during, say, the Algebra II curriculum without it becoming a “And this is how we use this…” lecture.

      I do see how you could be one of the best teachers of (insert subject of expertise) as a full time faculty member by bringing subject enthusiasm, but what you’re proposing is just “Gee Whiz Day”.

      1. Warmac9999 Avatar
        Warmac9999

        Well, Nancy, if you don’t run the experiment you won’t find out whether it works.

        I didn’t present my full credentials because I was trying to make a point about large numbers of people with those types of credentials who would never be allowed to teach in a public school.

        By the way, I just went through the school safety course. 90% of it was common sense and the other 10% was how to use the automatic heart defibulator machine/cpr. It took two days of my time to do it.

        1. Nancy Naive Avatar
          Nancy Naive

          Well, write it up. Without a plan, your experiment is just a wish for serendipity, something not sought in a curriculum. You will need more than a BR comment.

          As to the safety course, how well you got it is something you don’t want to know. I have my suspicions.

          BTW, teaching licenses and certification is a “union card”, as is a Ph.D. in engineering. Ask your doctor.

          1. Warmac9999 Avatar
            Warmac9999

            To what end? Now you want me to take the risk rather than share the risk. Nope.

          2. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            Well, you learned about risk. You wouldn’t have used one bolt to secure an engine to a DC10.

          3. Warmac9999 Avatar
            Warmac9999

            I taught risk management.

  7. Nancy Naive Avatar
    Nancy Naive

    Now, about the physician shortage… Perhaps Youngkin can waive licensing and give the pre-med students a chance to write scripts.

    1. LarrytheG Avatar
      LarrytheG

      The “shortage” is not with more bodies of folks called “teachers”. It’s what KIND of teachers – i.e. the ones that teach core competencies like reading and math. You can have an Einstein or a Einstein wannabe but that don’t make them a “teacher” which is a separate skill that apparently many think is not and that anyone from another occupation can just step in and do.

      This is why they have stipulations for “career switchers”. You don’t just start “teaching” just because you had another career.

      1. Nancy Naive Avatar
        Nancy Naive

        “Engineers are fungible” — some moron CEO of one of America’s largest engineering companies, circa 1998

        One of those fungible engineers took exception to the statement and created ths…
        https://en.uncyclopedia.co/wiki/Raytheon
        proving that an EE is capable of being an SE if necessary.

        1. LarrytheG Avatar
          LarrytheG

          My interactions with engineers is that they can run the gamut of cynicism, whimsy, disrespect for authority, etc, etc.

          I know engineers , good ones, EEs, that also tried “teaching” and found out that it’s a totally different discipline from engineering ( ditto with scientists and mathematicians).

          You can be the best dang engineer/mathematician/scientist that ever came down the pike but you totally suck at trying to “teach” or “explain” your own knowledge. That’s a skill unto itself.

          And ironically, some folks that are really good at teaching don’t have deep knowledge of many subjects but they can get that kid who can’t read up and running and getting “A”s on reading with a little patience and hard “teaching”.

          Of course, “ignorance” can also come from thinking that because one is a “degreed” person, that it means they can teach. A not uncommon affliction.

          1. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            I know this sounds liberal, but I have known many engineers and blog-writers who shouldn’t be allowed within 1000 yards of a school and children, even their own.

          2. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            often the ones who interact with unruly kids by saying – ” if you don’t shut up, I’m gonna come over there and beat the crap out of you” just like they talk to fellow engineers they disagree with… 😉

          3. Warmac9999 Avatar
            Warmac9999

            No larry, a real engineer tells them something far more graphic.

          4. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            People that don’t know how to deal with kids should not be teachers. Know that?

          5. Warmac9999 Avatar
            Warmac9999

            teachers that have an ideological agenda shouldn’t be teachers either.

          6. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            Most of them that teach for years, decades are professionals who job is to insure their students have learned the material and can move to the next level.

            The “ideology” is in the minds of the right wing ideologues who use it as a partisan strategy to damage public education as they are now.

          7. Warmac9999 Avatar
            Warmac9999

            Oh come now. Everyday in the news there are examples of ideologues in the classroom. I would hope that most teachers ae professional but the teacher unions spend most of its time on ideology and how to sneak it into a classroom so a parent doesn’t know. They even admit it in their speeches to the public.

          8. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            on right-wing news, perhaps but not normal news.

            You have all this paranoid conspiracy theory stuff in your head and you say you teach?

            The “ideology” you speak of is virtually non-existent in 99% of the schools and classrooms.

            It’s made up lies and misrepresentations by folks who seek to damage public education and advocate for “vouchers” – like you.

            We know who you are guy.

          9. Warmac9999 Avatar
            Warmac9999

            What is normal news. Shouldn’t news be based on facts? Should it hide something that is ideologically uncomfortable? Sure I read rightwing news. I also read leftwing news. I like the Daily Mail which is certainly left wing. I don’t like MSNBC because it is so ideological that you can’t even get to a fact without having to transgress through a minefield of stupidity. To me, if you never look at the fact based arguments of all sides of an issue, you aren’t thinking critically and you will be misinformed..

          10. Warmac9999 Avatar
            Warmac9999

            Correct, but you should also apply that to any group including teachers.

          11. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            Actually teachers that stay as teachers are “qualified”.

          12. Warmac9999 Avatar
            Warmac9999

            So, if they transgress into ideology, they cease being teachers. I agree.

          13. Warmac9999 Avatar
            Warmac9999

            Ignorance is one of the great teachers once you recognize that ignorance is useful to encourage learning. Stupidity is not so good.

    2. walter smith Avatar
      walter smith

      Oh…now you care about merit? Racist!
      Have you seen what woke medical schools are doing?
      And coming to pilots, too!
      But remember, systemic racism is your Gospel…
      You preach it, so suffer under the consequences.
      I very much doubt that the licensing standards means ability. I bet they are worthless. Lawyers have to take 12 hours of CLE every year, including 2 in ethics. Ask any lawyer what he thinks of the courses…

      1. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        Nancy, the whole dang educational establishment is going “woke”…at least according to some folk, eh?

        And Lawyers.. upset over having to get educated on things they are ignorant of … lordy…

        1. Warmac9999 Avatar
          Warmac9999

          If an organization, regardless of type, creates a DEI division, they are woke by definition.

      2. Nancy Naive Avatar
        Nancy Naive

        Mississippi

      3. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        I know that apparently on BR if you are a racist, it’s acceptable to comment, right?

        1. Warmac9999 Avatar
          Warmac9999

          The let you comment don’t they?

          1. James C. Sherlock Avatar
            James C. Sherlock

            A mistake most of us regret.

    3. Warmac9999 Avatar
      Warmac9999

      The physician shortage has been solved by reducing the requirements – thus you get physician assistants before you see the physician.

  8. LarrytheG Avatar
    LarrytheG

    I was sorta expecting Youngkin to proffer the Virginia Virtual Academy which is a fully accredited K-12 program provided by the private sector via a relationship with VDOE. https://www.doe.virginia.gov/instruction/virtual_learning/

    For some kids in some locations in need of instruction that their school is short on staffing – it can provide a reasonable alternative and from what I hear, some people are pleased with it:

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/25e4c62d6f5dbef0116420e1a00a40d6c6e27b319818ffad6c9a90e3b69c73ca.jpg

  9. walter smith Avatar
    walter smith

    The problem is federal and State control, one size fits all, teacher unions, behavior. Parent inattention for too long, assuming the kids were being (1) educated and (2) not indoctrinated.
    Many potential improvements. None should require more money – it already costs far more than it should.
    First would be to admit that illegitimacy is a huge societal problem. I know – I’m so mean! I am also speaking the truth. If the young boys (and the girls to some extent from absent of a fatherly influence, but far more boys) came in better socialized to authority and obeying, there would be better behavior.
    Also, two parents together would provide stability in getting educated. Unfortunately, we have raised a generation or two of people who aren’t really good parents. They are a problem and constantly defending their children, rather than agreeing to warranted punishment.
    Then you need some freedom and experimentation. I think Youngkin is trying to do that. We also need to acknowledge that the teacher unions have become unions adverse to the interests of the kids. Parents need to get involved in the curriculum, in the standards, in the accountability of the teachers and administrations, etc.

    Ultimately, I would favor the AZ approach – the money follows the student and the parents can use it for a school of their choice.

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