What Dominion Has Learned From Its Experimental Wind Turbines

by James A. Bacon

Dominion Energy spent $300 million to erect the two wind turbines now standing about 27 miles off the Virginia coast, a sum that could never be justified by the 12 megawatts of generating capacity they add to the grid— enough to power only 3,000 homes. The real benefit will come later, when Dominion builds a proposed 180-turbine wind farm expected to generate 2,640 megawatts of capacity, enough to power up to 600,000 homes, at a projected cost of $7.8 billion.

Thanks to the data gathered from the two experimental turbines, Dominion officials say it will need 40 fewer of the multimillion-dollar turbines than it had originally anticipated, a savings of hundreds of millions of dollars. Also, from the experience of leasing an expensive, hard-to-book installation vessel, Dominion is investing $500 million, risking shareholders’ money not ratepayers’ money, which will serve other East Coast windfarm projects as well as Dominion’s at a lower cost than chartering a European vessel.

Company officials say they have learned other odds and ends from the experimental turbines that will inform their safety and environmental efforts going forward.

Bacon’s Rebellion and other media outlets got an in-depth briefing from Dominion executives Wednesday during an excursion Wednesday to view the two turbines up close. Other than five machines off the coast of Block Island in Rhode Island, the two turbines are the only ones operating off the East Coast. Unlike the Block Island project, which is built in state waters, the pilot turbines are the first to be built in federal waters, and will have a major influence on the formation of regulations guiding offshore wind development in federal leases.

The media tour was part of a larger public outreach initiative as Dominion embarks upon seeking regulatory approval for a transmission line that will plug the wind farm into its electric grid. Electricity from the turbines will be converted into usable form in three offshore substations. A cable buried under the seabed will come ashore at Camp Pendleton in Virginia Beach. From there, Dominion has mapped out six alternative routes through a heavily developed section of Virginia Beach to its connection point at its Birdneck substation. If the history of transmission-line approvals is any indication, Dominion can expect considerable neighborhood opposition.

Kevin Carroll, Dominion’s manager of offshore wind operations & maintenance

The twin turbines, whose propellers reach 600 feet high, have been spinning and gathering data since October. They haven’t yet been exposed to the acid test of weathering a hurricane, but early indicators are favorable, says Kevin Carroll, a former U.S. Coast Guard captain whom Dominion tapped to take charge of its offshore wind operations & maintenance.

Carroll says the turbines, which he refers to affectionately as his “wind babies,” have had 97% “availability,” which means they have been available to generate electric power from wind 97% of the time. Also, they are operating at a higher “efficiency” rating than forecast — 54% compared to the projected 35% — which means that they are generating significantly more electric power. With that knowledge, Dominion has pruned the number of wind turbines it proposes to build in its Virginia Coastal Offshore Wind Project from 220 to 180.

That project is still pegged at an estimated $7.8 billion cost, as it has been for a year or more. Bacon’s Rebellion asked if the project price will come down to reflect the smaller number of turbines needed. Carroll responded: “It is expected that decreasing the number or turbines will reduce both construction and operation costs.”

Of all the wind-turbine projects in the world, none have been preceded by a pilot project like this one. Carroll made the case that the company has learned much from the twin turbines that will enable the construction and operations of the wind farm to proceed more smoothly.

The installation of wind turbines occurs in several phases. The first is putting the turbine foundation into place. This requires the services of a highly specialized vessel that stabilizes itself on stilts reaching to the seabed and pounds the foundation into the seabed like a pile driver. At present, these vessels are owned and operated by European companies, where they are in tremendous demand. They are expensive to lease, if they can be procured at all. Installing the two experimental turbines required relocating a vessel across the Atlantic Ocean. That experience convinced Dominion that it would be cost-effective to build a vessel to serve the burgeoning East Coast offshore wind industry.

The Dominion parent company of the regulated Virginia utility is investing roughly $500 million to build the first in Brownsville, Texas. The company announced earlier this month that the Charybdis, which is expected to be seaworthy by 2023, will undertake its first work on two offshore wind farms in the Northeast — Revolution Wind and Sunrise Wind — before focusing on Dominion’s own wind farm between 2024 and 2026.

View of the “nacelle,” atop the wind-turbine column, which converts the movement of the propeller into electricity.

The pilot project also demonstrated the feasibility for the first time in U.S. waters of a new technology designed to dampen the sound created by driving the foundations into the seabed. To avoid damage to marine life, Dominion laid two hoses around the foundation that emitted air bubbles, creating acoustic curtains. Measurements found that the “double bubble curtain” significantly reduces the decibel level of the pounding, and Dominion will use the technique when it constructions the wind farm.

The pilot project also represented the first time that a U.S. wind farm developer has walked a project through the Bureau of Ocean Energy Management (BOEM) regulatory process. Environmental and safety regulations based on real-world experience should smooth the path for other wind farm projects moving forward., Carroll says.

Carroll and his team used the pilot turbines to test the use of drones for close-up inspection of the massive blades. They discovered how quickly the rocks piled around the foundation created an artificial reef that supports marine life. Collaborating with aviators, he has learned how best to position the blades to facilitate flight through the wind farm. Working with local fishermen, he has developed protocols to allow fishermen to continue fishing near the turbines without creating safety issues.

The pilot projects have even alleviated one of the biggest fears associated with wind turbines. The fast-moving propeller tips, which move at speeds of 15o to 180 miles per hour, have killed thousands of birds on shore. But Carroll says birds are exceedingly rare that far from the coast. Not one bird was spotted during the media tour. The bright red rails on the turbine observation platform show no signs of bird poop. Not a single bird kill has been documented.


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65 responses to “What Dominion Has Learned From Its Experimental Wind Turbines”

  1. Thomas Hadwin Avatar
    Thomas Hadwin

    Why were the pilot wind generators so much smaller than the type that is expected to be used in the actual project? I understand that the 14 MW units are still under development, but 10-12 MW units were available at the time the pilot project was constructed. The 6 MW units used by Dominion are much smaller. They are not nearly as tall, which will not fully evaluate the wind speeds that the 180+ units will be exposed to, especially during storm conditions. Nor will they fully reveal the output that might be expected from the main project. Also, the foundations for the regular units will be much larger. You would think that a trial experience with facilities that are closer to the actual units would yield more valuable results.

    The planning for the pilot project occurred over a long period of time, but so does planning for other types of generation. It is common for plans to be adjusted to take advantage of the latest technology, especially for a data gathering project that intended to inform final construction plans.

    Was the cost of the transmission line included in the $300 million pilot project or is that going to be an added expense?

    It will be good to have a Jones Act qualifying vessel for construction. I understand that Congress is considering some adjustments to the Jones Act that might make it easier to move materials to the site.

    1. Good questions. Dominion confirmed that the wind-farm turbines will be 100 feet taller (as I recall). I did not think to ask if they could have learned a lot more by using the taller turbines for the pilot project.

  2. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
    Dick Hall-Sizemore

    It is notable that Bacon’s Rebellion was included on a media tour/briefing like this. Congratulations!

  3. Nancy Naive Avatar
    Nancy Naive

    Cool. “But, life is for learning.”

  4. LarrytheG Avatar
    LarrytheG

    This is actually a fairly important project in terms of “proof of concept” – the lopsided financial favorability for Dominion issue aside. Over time, this project may well determine if Dominion will pursue more , other utilities and states. We’ll learn more about operation and maintenance costs, how they fare in hurricanes , and how long they might last.

    Other states may look at the Dominion aspect and decide they want to go a different route than utility-owned. May want bigger or smaller, or more or less, etc, etc.

    We need to go through the process the first time to gain info for the next ones.

    1. LarrytheG Avatar
      LarrytheG

      I’ve read about these. They pretty much graphically demonstrate the phrase “sitting ducks”. Amazing, they were never targeted…apparently.

      speaking of:

      The Night A Mysterious Drone Swarm Descended On Palo Verde Nuclear Power Plant

      https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/34800/the-night-a-drone-swarm-descended-on-palo-verde-nuclear-power-plant

      1. Nancy Naive Avatar
        Nancy Naive

        I would imagine, festooned with guns, that an attack would have been costly. Very costly.

        1. LarrytheG Avatar
          LarrytheG

          Drones with GPS have totally changed war fighting as we know it.

          20-30 drones with explosives headed to one target – like a Nuke… how to defend against it?

          Boogeyman fearmongering at it’s best, or is it worst?

    2. WayneS Avatar

      They remind me of the “walkers” in Star Wars movies….

      …only rustier.

    3. Nancy Naive Avatar
      Nancy Naive

      Well, Jeez. Of course they look bad, they haven’t been maintained in 70 years.

      But, I’ll bet they were considered a thing of great beauty in 1940 by many.

      I woner if you can buy one? (Wait I gotta go find a link)… be right back

      Purchased for $35,000 and restored to a living home…
      http://www.middlegroundlight.com/photo-gallery

      1. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        All I can think of is stuff like water, power, etc…

        But I can imagine in WWII when folks were “assigned” to these things that they felt they might as well wear targets cuz if Germany decided to deal with them – they would be the best cannon fodder ever.

      2. James Wyatt Whitehead Avatar
        James Wyatt Whitehead

        I wonder if the light still works? They should be in a rustoleum commercial.

        1. Nancy Naive Avatar
          Nancy Naive

          I think it’s so far up on the shoal that if you could see the light, you’re screwed.

          For the most part, the Bay’s lights are no longer of great function. I swear the light at Smith Pt. is only 60 watts.

          I wish the State would refurbish some of them, but so many are only accessible from water that there’s really no possible return. I think even old Cape Henry is closed to climbers.

          1. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            I thought – red right return…

        2. Nancy Naive Avatar
          Nancy Naive

          Hey… just for you. At this moment, Richard Bland is co-leader in th US Open. They keep saying he’s one of the oldest players to lead The Open… if they only knew.

          1. James Wyatt Whitehead Avatar
            James Wyatt Whitehead

            HEE HAW. Bland the golfer is now better known than Bland the Patriot. He was a sharp one! Started at W and M with Jefferson and finished at Edinborough in Scotland. Inquiry Into the Rights of the British Colonies was a huge influence on Jefferson. One of my favorite books to reread over and over.
            https://archive.org/details/inquirytotherights00blanrich/page/n9/mode/2up

  5. LarrytheG Avatar
    LarrytheG

    Good article. Thanks! Do you know how long it took from the actual start of the construction to finish? Months? Years? How long will it take to get the rest up and running? How about estimated levelized cost of the power?

    1. Thomas Hadwin Avatar
      Thomas Hadwin

      Phase I of the project, built in three stages in
      2026 and 2027 will provide 2,640 MW of offshore wind capacity. Those are expected in-service dates. Construction would begin earlier.

      The $8 billion projected for this first phase will require customers to repay Dominion a net present value of $18.56 billion. This does not include the charges to customers for the energy generated from the project.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        so to provide some context and perspective.

        North Anna generates about 1900 MW and Dominion says it powers 400K homes. Maybe 4 billion in 2007 dollars?

        Can you further expand on your comment about 8 billion cost and 18.56 billion net present value?

        1. Thomas Hadwin Avatar
          Thomas Hadwin

          That is the amount of money that ratepayers must repay Dominion just for building the plant. It includes billions in profit regardless of how much energy is generated. Because it is utility-owned, costs such as O&M, storm damage, etc. will be added costs repaid by ratepayers.

          If the project was owned by the an independent developer, as all other states are doing, these costs would be borne by them and included in the fixed price per kWh charged for the energy produced.

          1. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            Thanks. so tough question. Better to have the turbines this way or not at all?

            probably not a fair question.

      2. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
        Dick Hall-Sizemore

        $560 million profit. Not bad.

  6. DJRippert Avatar
    DJRippert

    I love monopoly electrical generation companies like Dominion. They engage in horribly expensive R&D using rate payer money (building the two turbines) but then capitalize on the benefits (owning the ship) with shareholder money.

    Shouldn’t some of the experimental turbine costs be shifted to the shareholders as an R&D expense for the ship business?

    For example, the costs of the ship(s) for the experimental turbines should be subtracted from the rate base and applied as an R&D cost to unregulated company.

    Why would that be unfair?

    1. Thomas Hadwin Avatar
      Thomas Hadwin

      The ratepayers will pay for the ship, plus the cost of financing, plus a guaranteed 10-12% profit as part of paying for the wind project.

      The parent company will receive all of that revenue, plus the revenue from its use on other projects, and the tax protection afforded by the depreciation. It’s another example of Dominion’s brilliant financial engineering, at the expense of the ratepayer.

      1. My understanding is that Virginia ratepayers will pay only for the cost of leasing the vessel while it is working on the Dominion wind project, and that the cost will be less than chartering a European vessel (assuming it is even available).

        1. Thomas Hadwin Avatar
          Thomas Hadwin

          Yes, I think that is true. You avoid running a ship back and forth across the Atlantic.

          But the ratepayers will still pay for its use and the parent company will reap the financial rewards.

          This is a common practice. Many business owners own major equipment, or buildings that are leased to their companies. The company writes off the expense, the owner gets the income and tax advantages. Smart business.

          Dominion is excellent at financial engineering. I only criticize them for that when they exploit the ratepayers for their shareholders advantage. The central point of awarding a monopoly is that you get a fair return in exchange for fair prices.

          Monopoly power should not be used to maximize the extraction of money from the customers when they are not allowed another option for service.

          Using the legal purchase of favorable legislation to reduce the regulator’s proper role, goes against the agreement made when the monopoly was awarded.

          1. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            I agree, but it’s a little bit of a simplistic concept in the modern finance world where investors will take advantage of every tool they have to maximize their profit, not just power companies.. and involvement in the legislature is not unheard of.

            remember these guys:

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000%E2%80%9301_California_electricity_crisis

            and how Texas does power..

            As bad a Dominion is , are they better than Enron and the Texas players?

          2. Thomas Hadwin Avatar
            Thomas Hadwin

            I don’t think comparisons are necessary. The essential question is – are we creating the optimum energy system in Virginia that provides clean energy, high reliability and reasonable costs?

            Our energy policies, as presently configured, exist to maximize shareholder value.

            There is no doubt that Dominion is concerned about reliability, but within the confines of making the most profit. Much more reliance on distributed energy resources would increase reliability and lower customer costs. That is not a formula that fits with Dominion’s current business model.

            If they want to maximize profit, they should do it in a competitive marketplace, not use the monopoly and legislative control to reduce customer choice to extract the most money from them.

            We need financially healthy utilities. There are many ways to accomplish that while reducing customer costs. We are not on that path in Virginia.

          3. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            re: ” are we creating the optimum energy system in Virginia that provides clean energy, high reliability and reasonable costs?”

            Nope.

            But don’t give me Enron or Texas either!

            Truth is that Dominion is better at snookering us that we are at doing what
            we need to do.

            And if the choice were Wind this way or no wind at all – that might be a tough call.

            Won’t make the good perfect enemy comparison… we just need to double our own efforts to move to a better model in spite of Dominion.

            They have just beat us at this game.

          4. energyNOW_Fan Avatar
            energyNOW_Fan

            we could probably get low cost wind building onshore in Pa, WV, Md. But Dems are saying we need Va to be a high tax state, which will be unfriendly for new business. So Virginia needs to go it alone and create our own state mandated offshore wind business to create an economy. NJ always had the same basic proactive approach to use utilities to create jobs, jobs that otherwise will not voluntarily come to NJ.

        2. DJRippert Avatar
          DJRippert

          My point is that the R&D for the ship was part of the experimental turbine project. Now that Dominion has experimented with a leased ship and learned the engineering and economics they want to build a ship for the shareholders’ benefit. Some part of the cost of the experimental project should be allocated as “for profit” R&D to the unregulated company.

          1. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            Good luck on that. THe GOP kneecapped the SCC some time ago and the Dems haven’t seen fit to set it back to where they used to be.

            We keep talking like we should or could do something.

            This guy Michael Bills was spending money to do that and guess who opposed him?

    2. Brian Leeper Avatar
      Brian Leeper

      Dominion stock isn’t all that great of an investment either. They pay rather paltry dividends and the stock price has gone up 2.37% in 5 years.

      For a company that has most of the politicians in the state where it mostly operates in it’s back pocket, that’s not real good. But probably outstanding by Virginia standards.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        money must be going elsewhere then, 😉

        1. Brian Leeper Avatar
          Brian Leeper

          It’s not going towards maintenance, that is for sure. In Northern VA, Dominion has more frequent and longer outages than NOVEC does, and that is really strange given that NOVEC serves a more rural population.

          1. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            oh no… I suspect Corporate goodies..15 million for Dom CEO.

          2. Brian Leeper Avatar
            Brian Leeper

            He’s obviously worth it! /sarc

          3. Brian Leeper Avatar
            Brian Leeper

            He’s obviously worth it! /sarc

          4. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            Indeed, if he got them the wind deal, no?

            finders fee for 8 billion?

          5. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            Indeed, if he got them the wind deal, no?

            finders fee for 8 billion?

  7. energyNOW_Fan Avatar
    energyNOW_Fan

    Tom said the Keyword : Jones Act.
    Dominion needs to build a US-made ship with US crew to be allowed to build the structures. Several recent articles about the new ship, which apparently will be used in New England to build a new offshore wind farm up there.

    When we talk cost, what does that include? Does that include the high voltage power lines to shore, etc? Also we ought to compare cost to Dominion’s recent-built large nat gas power plant, which probably makes more net power than this, accounting for % running efficiency.

    Also as Tom pointed out, these test turbines are not the huge ones that Dominion plans to build. Last I heard the plan is relatively untested humongous (world’s largest from GE) turbines.

    1. The cost of the pilot wind turbines includes running a line to Fort Pendleton and tying into the distribution grid. If Dominion builds the whole enchilada, the project cost will encompass the cost of building a transmission system that ties into the Birdneck substation.

      1. OK, I just got a quote from Kevin Carroll: “It is expected that decreasing the number or turbines will reduce both construction and operation costs.”

        No hard numbers yet.

        1. LarrytheG Avatar
          LarrytheG

          but whose money is being saved by cutting back?

          1. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            Who owns money? Is it not like faith, hope, beauty — the ethereal things of life — but especially faith?

          2. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            I don’t think DOM had a come-to-jesus moment with wind – money is at issue and if wind has promise for “more”, why cut back rather than just take the additional power anyhow? My suspects are that Dom is taking the path that maxiizes their profit – not wind power.

          3. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            I’ll accept money as a motive. It’s a perfectly valid motive. If DOM sees opportunity to profit where there is benefit to all, fine. Fewer moving parts. That’s the benefit of renewables over fossil fuels. The power generation is where the enrergy is.

            Even when you fall flat on your face, you’re still 6 feet further in the right direction.

          4. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            The main thing to recognize with Dom, and Steve and Tom will confirm this, is that Dom’s eyes are ALWAYS on the money and their investors. Everything a good corporate should do. All the rest is “stuff” – they are largely agnostic on.

          5. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            Kinda funny. Not 6 months ago, with the sales of their pipelines, they proudly(?) proclaimed that they were “just another (high dividend paying) utility”. Now, they are buying a ship for energy speculation. Everything old is new again.

  8. Stephen Haner Avatar
    Stephen Haner

    Glad Hadwin is doing a good job of skewering this propaganda Dom fed Bacon. I can continue to relax here at Duck. 🙂 Had they invited me on the junket, I surely would have gone, but it wouldn’t have produced the same story! I pegged this “demonstration” as a stupid boondoggle on this blog years ago. Virginians are all just turkeys being plucked….

    1. Steve, I think you’re overlooking the very real piece of news to come out of this story — the fact that the efficiency rating of the two turbines is so high that Dominion is reducing the number of turbines planned for the wind farm from 220 to 180. The big question now — which I have submitted to Dominion and the company has yet to answer — is if that brings down the projected $7.8 billion cost of the project and, if not, why not.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        I dunno. Anything Dom says, I take with a grain of salt so I’m wondering if there is some other reason Dom is cutting back. Are they cutting back because of their own bottom line?

        1. Nancy Naive Avatar
          Nancy Naive

          Have the scales fallen from James’ eyes? Do I detect a softening in the concreted grey matter on the question of renewables? If so, Larry, let’s not give rise to conspiratorial excuses.

          “The problem with believing God is on your side is that you cannot change your mind because God sure as Hell doesn’t change His.” — Roger Ebert(?)

          1. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            Dom used to pay BR so they go back a bit.

            Dom was initially opposed to renewables until they decided they could make a lot of money at it.

            When Dom shifted, BR seemed to get more friendly.

            Steve and Tom know Dom and that the move to renwables has nothing to do with renewables and everything to do with profits – at Virginian’s expense.

            Steve and Jim are still opposed to Michael Bills money in opposition to Dom because it’s from the “left”.

            Let’s see if anyone disputes the above.

          2. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            Throw me in the briar patch, Larry. Throw me in the briar patch.

            It’s only money. Nobody died, and nothing got broke. All in all, a good day on the boat.

  9. borehead Avatar
    borehead

    Progressive propaganda hogwash. Build this on land, so everyone can enjoy the magnificence of the European wind farm expansion project, NAFTA 2.0 brought to you by Big Blow Joe, and all the other ocean destroying squatters. Your’re right about one thing. Fishermen are opposed, along with a growing number of ratepayers, knowing their gonna take a hosing by the irresponsible.

    1. Thomas Hadwin Avatar
      Thomas Hadwin

      Virginia is not a high wind resource state, like the states in the Great Plains and elsewhere. Only along the shoreline, and a few high ridge tops inland is there enough wind to make onshore wind facilities feasible in Virginia.

      That is why this project is being developed offshore.

      1. borehead Avatar
        borehead

        Import it from the mid west or develop real energy with next generation nuclear power. This is nothing but a democrat social giveaway to Euro manufacturers., Brilliant response to try to explain the folly. Someone tell AOC to get a job at Dunkins, will ya? She needs some real world experience.

        1. LarrytheG Avatar
          LarrytheG

          what in the dooda does AOC have to do with wind energy?

          The designated offshore wind areas were done long before AOC and yes, George Bush signed the law – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_Policy_Act_of_2005

  10. Thomas Hadwin Avatar
    Thomas Hadwin

    Jim,

    I am not certain, but my guess is that the preliminary information gathered by Dominion so far shows that the offshore wind resource is greater than they predicted.

    If wind speed doubles, the amount of electricity generated is 8 times greater. Wind speeds are greater at higher altitude, so the much taller turbines used in the actual project will harvest more wind.

    Also, if the length of the propeller blade doubles, the output goes up four times.

    Dominion might have realized that to achieve the output they designed for, fewer wind turbines are required.

    You are asking the essential question. If fewer turbines are built – does that mean that the project will cost less than $8 billion? Dominion doesn’t like to give money back and the SCC oversight has been mostly negated in this first Phase of the project. So it will be interesting to see what the answer is.

  11. Merchantseamen Avatar
    Merchantseamen

    I wonder if the environmental impact studies were fast tracked or was every orifice of Dominion stretched and probed? What is the bottom gradient for these monsters? Apparently GE needs to work on their over speed trips for these turbines. Also quicker response on blade feathering. Potential for devastation is high. After some 23 years at sea. Ask me how I know. I got $10 says it got fast tracked.

    1. LarrytheG Avatar
      LarrytheG

      actually been a long time coming… but here’s the thing. If we let these issues stop us from building ships, oil platforms, bay-bridge tunnels, etc – what the heck?

      Why do we build all these other things then get a case of regret for this?

      We’ll make mistakes. We’ll learn. We’ll get better at it. And at the end of the day, if we can get lots of clean, non-polluting power why would that be any different than say, building a hydro-dam?

      Geezy Peezy, i can’t believe people. We build all these things and then when we get to this, it’s “no can do”.

      1. Merchantseamen Avatar
        Merchantseamen

        Larry you have a great point. I saw the evolution of ships main propulsion systems. The constant reach for efficient operation of the plant. Yes mistakes made and solutions learned and technology overcame. I fear with the government and politics involved, the delivery of energy at market prices will be the end of us. There is room for all three plus other energy alternatives. Oil and NG are not the bad guy.

        1. LarrytheG Avatar
          LarrytheG

          No way guy. The private sector Nukes came from the Navy subs ! Where would we be without GPS or NOAA satellites? Autonomous vehicles and drones from DARPA? How many innovations from NASA? The internet from packet switching technology from private sector/govt partnerships?

          Here’s the thing about electric power. You make it more expensive and what happens? I’m not advocating that but the reality is the same thing will happen that happened to cars when gas got expensive. People find ways to use less and still get what they need and that’s called productivity! more from less!

          Wanna trade us for 3rd world when it comes to government and technology and innovation? No thanks!

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