by James C. Sherlock

The illegal but successful threats not to return to work by teachers associations in Fairfax County Virginia have forced Virginians to confront the issue of public employees’ willful refusals to perform the duties of their employment.

From the Washington Post, “Teachers in Fairfax revolt against fall plans, refusing to teach in-person,” June 26, 2020:

A day after one of the nation’s largest school systems announced its proposal for fall learning, teachers within Fairfax County Public Schools rose in revolt and refused to teach in-person, as the (previously announced by the school board) plan demands, until officials revise their strategy.

Though you would not know it from their actions, Fairfax County school teachers currently are not permitted to bargain collectively. Even when the laws change next year to permit bargaining at local option, such tactics will be illegal.

Code of Virginia, § 40.1-55, both now and in 2021, is titled “Employee striking terminates, and becomes temporarily ineligible for, public employment’.”  

“Any employee of the Commonwealth, or of any county, city, town or other political subdivision thereof, or of any agency of any one of them, who, in concert with two or more other such employees, for the purpose of obstructing, impeding or suspending any activity or operation of his employing agency or any other governmental agency, strikes or willfully refuses to perform the duties of his employment.” shall, by such action, be deemed to have terminated his employment and shall thereafter be ineligible for employment in any position or capacity during the next 12 months.”

So, why do teachers in Fairfax County who have refused to perform the duties of their employment still work for Fairfax County Schools?

No word from Governor Northam or Attorney General Herring, who are charged with upholding Virginia laws.

The truth is that the threats worked and there will be no consequences.

Pending changes to Virginia public employee collective bargaining

Consider the implications of collective bargaining (§ 40.1-57.2. (Effective May 1, 2021)) by public employees of local governments if those governments next year “provide for or permit collective bargaining by a local ordinance or resolution”.

There is no provision in Virginia law for what will be done if collective bargaining does not result in an agreement even after mediation by the Department of Labor and Industry. What could go wrong?

In 1943, a New York Supreme Court judge held:

To tolerate or recognize any combination of civil service employees of the government as a labor organization or union is not only incompatible with the spirit of democracy, but inconsistent with every principle upon which our government is founded. Nothing is more dangerous to public welfare than to admit that hired servants of the State can dictate to the government the hours, the wages and conditions under which they will carry on essential services vital to the welfare, safety, and security of the citizen. To admit as true that government employees have power to halt or check the functions of government unless their demands are satisfied, is to transfer to them all legislative, executive and judicial power.

That remains true today.

Some states dominated by Democrats, most prominently Illinois, with public employees on one side of the bargaining table and elected officials on the other have effectively bankrupted their states because they have granted nearly unlimited pay and benefits raises to public employees, as reflected in their massively underfunded pension plans.

There are two major problems with collective bargaining by public employees.

  1. In negotiations between a private company and its unions, both sides are dividing up the same pot of money, and thus equally motivated.  In negotiations between a public union and elected officials, it is not the elected officials’ money with which they are dealing.
  2. Public-sector unions in Virginia will sit across the table negotiating with people they help elect, and not just with their votes.   Virginia has no limit on campaign donations to state officials. VPAP records that the American Federation of State County and Municipal Employees (AFSCME) has given over $2,316,000 to Virginia candidates, all of it to Democrats.

I support the right of public employees in Fairfax County and elsewhere to express their views.

I do not support their right or the right of any public employees to hold Virginians, including children and their parents, hostage by threatening to refuse to work in support of those views. Neither does Virginia law.

Now consider how the successful use of illegal tactics by the Fairfax County teachers will instruct all other public employee unions in Virginia — police, fire, EMS, public utilities workers, etc.

Welcome to Illinois.


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Comments

109 responses to “Welcome to Illinois”

  1. Peter Galuszka Avatar
    Peter Galuszka

    Those anti union laws need to be repealed.

  2. Craig@EmbarkFund Avatar
    Craig@EmbarkFund

    Brother James,

    “threatening to refuse to work”. Dude, be fair, teachers did no such thing.

    Further, in reviewing Code of Va, looks like the ‘old-white-dude disease’ strikes again – can’t wait till the next gen/s are running things and we can, once and for all, eradicate the legacy problems in VA of misogyny/racism/Lost Cause bs, etc.

    “HIS employing agency or any other governmental agency, strikes or willfully refuses to perform the duties of HIS employment, shall, by such action, be deemed to have terminated HIS employment…”.

    Looks like the ladies can strike! Hahaa

    1. sherlockj Avatar
      sherlockj

      Call the Washington Post, which did the interviews and wrote the story.

      From the Washington Post, “Teachers in Fairfax revolt against fall plans, refusing to teach in-person,” June 26, 2020:

      “A day after one of the nation’s largest school systems announced its proposal for fall learning, teachers within Fairfax County Public Schools rose in revolt and refused to teach in-person, as the (previously announced by the school board) plan demands, until officials revise their strategy.”

      It worked.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        Jim – surely you don’t believe that lying liberal rag do you?

        Everyone and their dog knows they lie every time they open their mouth – seen that said here almost daily, in fact..

        why do ya’ll still read WaPo in the first place if you think they are lying sacks of dog-doo?

      2. Craig@EmbarkFund Avatar
        Craig@EmbarkFund

        Jim, be fair, you said “refuse to work”. They did no such thing.

        Just in case, somehow, you’re missing my point, teaching virtually IS working. It’s also called the future for OVER half of the planet’s workforce. The rest will be fighting over jobs with robots. We are NOT paying attention to the things that REALLY matter in this country, but that’s a much longer blog post…

        1. djrippert Avatar
          djrippert

          Splitting hairs. The Superintendent announced a hybrid plan where half the students would be in class for two days and the other half for two different days. The teachers, as described by the Post, did refuse to teach under the protocol publicly announced by the Superintendent.

          Teaching virtually is work. However, it is widely seen (as practiced in Fairfax County) as materially less effective for in-class education for K-12 students than in-person education.

          1. Craig@EmbarkFund Avatar
            Craig@EmbarkFund

            Granted DJ, but it [teaching virtually] keeps people alive until, if, and/or when, we have a government who can lead us to a safe/safer future. We’re nowhere close yet.

            Maybe now, with more than 24 hours notice, teachers will be able to put together a better experience for the/our new reality – virtual educations (not Europe’s, but, well, see above para.). Appreciate the comment.

    2. VDOTyranny Avatar
      VDOTyranny

      Yeah, the next gen gonna’ fix it alright. They’re gonna’ fix it just like the preceeding generations tried to fix things, and get it good and hard in the process

      Atleast GenX knew it was screwed

    3. WayneS Avatar

      Code of Virginia

      § 1-216. Gender.
      A word used in the masculine includes the feminine and neuter.

      Hahaa!

  3. LarrytheG Avatar
    LarrytheG

    If it were only Fairfax, Jim might have a point. The reality is that many school systems – unions or not – are doing what Fairfax is doing.

    One can call it a revolt or whatever… but in the age of the internet – telling teachers they cannot collaborate and effectively act as a group – is not dealing with the realities. In this day and age – you really don’t need an “official” union to associate as a group and take actions as a group.

    And this gets back to being a Republican in Virginia. This is how you’d deal with teachers and still expect to get elected or stay elected?

    Republicans in Virginia have to have a different mindset if they expect to be a viable party.

    1. sherlockj Avatar
      sherlockj

      What they did is illegal and will still be illegal when the new laws go into effect in 2021.

      The teacher’s unions are welcome to present their views. Under the current and future (2021) laws of Virginia, they are not welcome to threaten a job action – refusing to work – if they do not get their way.

      Don’t you agree, Larry?

      Ignoring, as you do, they laws of Virginia, which you see as unrealistic, you completely ignore the basic point that public employee unions have a completely unfair advantage over the public when they “negotiate” with elected officials that they have bought on the open market.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        Jim – I think in the internet era – traditional unions are an anachronism.

        In the age of social media “meetups” – teachers can and do “organize” and then they act as individuals – all doing the same thing…

        If they get together on social media (and they do) and they all agree they’re not going to agree with the school proposal – how can you stop that?

        You can’t stop it.

        The “right-to-work” stuff has always been on the edge of being unconstitutional in my view.

        1. WayneS Avatar

          Any public employee who in concert with two or more other employees to engages in work stoppages, strikes, etc. is “deemed to have terminated his employment…” In other words – he quits when he strickes.

          § 40.1-55. (Effective until May 1, 2021) Employee striking terminates, and becomes temporarily ineligible for, public employment.
          Any employee of the Commonwealth, or of any county, city, town or other political subdivision thereof, or of any agency of any one of them, who, in concert with two or more other such employees, for the purpose of obstructing, impeding or suspending any activity or operation of his employing agency or any other governmental agency, strikes or willfully refuses to perform the duties of his employment shall, by such action, be deemed to have terminated his employment and shall thereafter be ineligible for employment in any position or capacity during the next twelve months by the Commonwealth, or any county, city, town or other political subdivision of the Commonwealth, or by any department or agency of any of them.

          Code 1950, § 40-65; 1970, c. 321.

          § 40.1-55. (Effective May 1, 2021) Employee striking terminates, and becomes temporarily ineligible for, public employment.
          A. Any employee of the Commonwealth, or of any county, city, town or other political subdivision thereof, or of any agency of any one of them, who, in concert with two or more other such employees, for the purpose of obstructing, impeding or suspending any activity or operation of his employing agency or any other governmental agency, strikes or willfully refuses to perform the duties of his employment shall, by such action, be deemed to have terminated his employment and shall thereafter be ineligible for employment in any position or capacity during the next 12 months by the Commonwealth, or any county, city, town or other political subdivision of the Commonwealth, or by any department or agency of any of them.

          B. The provisions of subsection A shall apply to any employee of any county, city, or town or local school board without regard to any local ordinance or resolution adopted pursuant to § 40.1-57.2 by such county, city, or town or school board that authorizes its employees to engage in collective bargaining.

          1. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            re: ” for the purpose of obstructing, impeding or suspending any activity or operation of his employing agency or any other governmental agency,”

            would LOVE to see that play out in court with all the Fairfax teachers as defendants…

            this is what the GOP would do , right?

          2. WayneS Avatar

            Larry,

            “this is what the GOP would do , right?”

            1) I don’t have a clue what the GOP would do because I am not, and have never been a member of that party.

            2) I DO know that since “the GOP” lacks the power to enforce the laws of Virginia your question makes no sense.

          3. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            Geeze Wayne – what do you think the GOP does when they own the GA and the GOvernorship?

            Will Virginians vote for that if they know how the GOP feels about issues like this?

            See – there is a certain cause and effect here with voters and who gets elected…right?

        2. sherlockj Avatar
          sherlockj

          You find traditional unions to be an anachronism. The actions of the Fairfax County teachers unions are illegal yet you don’t find that a problem because they themselves are anachronistic.

          You clearly find our republican form of government as guaranteed in the Constitutions of Virginia and the United States to be anachronistic if the laws just passed by Democrats at every level of the state government are certified by you to be anachronistic.

          You indicate you would rather be ruled by public employee social media apps (certainly not anachronistic unions) than by the laws of the Commonwealth passed by legislators that the unions have bought fair and square.

          All kidding aside, I am utterly appalled.

          1. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            oh no… I’M APPALLED!

            You cannot keep teachers from “organizing” these days on social media… Do you know what a Facebook Group is or a group email?

            If the school system OFFERs the choice of in-person or remote – that’s not “walking-out”.

            right?

            If the school system says ” we are operating normal school “in-person” and someone says “not me” -they are fired, right?

            so, what’s the truth here? Is it REALLY a “union” ?

            Did they directly bargain with the school system?

        3. WayneS Avatar

          “The “right-to-work” stuff has always been on the edge of being unconstitutional in my view.”

          In what way? Please be specific.

          1. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            Because workers should have the right to organize and bargain for working conditions, training, and fair treatment, etc.

            Unions that operate apprenticeship programs benefit workers and employers.

          2. WayneS Avatar

            You said ” on the edge of being unconstitutional in my view.”

            Tie your argument to the Constitution, please.

            “Unfair” does not equal “unconstitutional”.

            Now, it would be unconstitutional if workers were prevented from seeking employment elsewhere if they did not like their current job.

          3. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            The ability to organize and bargain…as a group… would seem to be Constitutional – who says you cannot organize and strike?

          4. sherlockj Avatar
            sherlockj

            Larry, the laws of the United States and of Virginia say that neither federal employees nor state and local government employees in Virginia can strike.

          5. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            And Jim – that is sufficient to protect the public interest. On what basis would you oppose their right to organize and negotiate?

          6. sherlockj Avatar
            sherlockj

            Because, as I pointed out in my post, Virginia by letting the Fairfax teachers unions successfully threaten a strike without legal consequences has signaled clearly that it will not enforce the no-strike law.

            The state should permanently de-certify all three of those Fairfax unions from ever representing teachers in collective bargaining. Failing that, it is open season on the public purse and public policy.

          7. VDOTyranny Avatar
            VDOTyranny

            … but, if don’t want to represented by your union, I don’t have the right to work?

            Don’t give me the free-rider crapola, etiher! I didn’t ask for your little group to represent my interests. Compensation is between me and my employer.

        4. TooManyTaxes Avatar
          TooManyTaxes

          How is right to work – where an employee has the right to join or not to join a union unconstitutional? As a young lawyer, I did some labor relations work in both Iowa and Nebraska, both right to work states. If people couldn’t join unions in Iowa and Nebraska, why would the Communications Workers of America been involved in the matters on which I worked? People made a knowing choice to join or not based on their views of unions and whether they thought collective bargaining was a good idea. I knew a guy who like collective bargaining but hated the Democratic Party. He didn’t join the union.

          Now in Minnesota, I had to join the union or pay fulltime union dues to work at Montgomery Ward in high school and college even when I worked part-time or was laid off. Because I couldn’t afford to pay a $75 reinstatement fee, I had to stay a member when I was laid off and when I came back often received paychecks for $0, between Social Security and back union dues.

          I hate labor unions with a passion.

          1. John Harvie Avatar
            John Harvie

            Thanks, TMT. I was about to do the same as you to point out to the “Larrys on the blog” just what right to work is, and especially what it is not.

            Too bad the law has always had the misleading moniker “right to work”.

          2. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            I don’t hate or love unions – they are what they are. But I do believe that workers should have the right to organize and to negotiate for safety and fair treatment and I firmly believe that the anti-union types are also the ones who hire illegals precisely because they can mistreat them on wages and work rules.

            There are some corrupt unions, yes , just like there are some corrupt mayors or corrupt cops –

            Most of us deal with unionized people a lot – we just don’t realize it. If you fly – the pilots belong to a union. If you buy from Amazon – chances are good a union worker helped get that package to you.

            The folks who make this all about “right-to-work” use that as proxy to oppose unions in general – like TMT does.

            Workers should have the right to organize and negotiate with employers. It’s better for both in the longer run. It’s about the “freedom” of workers to do that.. this is an individual freedom issue.

    2. PackerFan Avatar
      PackerFan

      So Larry, are you saying Democrats can only get elected because of their pandering and cash giveaways? Since when was it not job #1 for public servants to “serve the public”? Tell me why Virginia won’t become the next Illinois and please don’t try to say Illinois isn’t all that bad.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        well – they get elected in a competition – right? Are you saying the GOP does not pander? 😉

        We’re not about to become another Illinois… if I thought we were, I’d be on your side… 😉

        1. djrippert Avatar
          djrippert

          Having lived in Chicago with two sons living there now and a wife who grew up in Chicago … we’re already another Illinois. A generally centrist state shifting hard to port as the metropolitan areas veer toward socialism. One party rule with a philosophy of pandering to government employees while raising taxes to the sky. There hasn’t been a Republican mayor of Chicago since 1931 and I doubt you’ll see another Republican governor anytime soon. The urbanites outgrew and outvoted the rural and small town people. Sound familiar? The Democrats constantly raised taxes. Sound familiar? And now, in the next stage … the Democrats pandered to the special interests in their base – especially unions and public sector employees. Do you see the parallel?

          The net result? People leave, in droves.

          https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/breaking/ct-illinois-population-loss-census-release-20191230-grrid2pgtbenppwrgprzg3fuhe-story.html

          1. Craig@EmbarkFund Avatar
            Craig@EmbarkFund

            I’ll take this ‘pandering’ over the pandering to Dominion by the racist Lost Cause’ers while D collects guaranteed forever-returns on the backs of ratepayers to destroy our planet.

            Maybe there wouldn’t be “one party rule” if the Dead Party had had a better product. Party is history.

          2. VDOTyranny Avatar
            VDOTyranny

            @Craig, do you read this blog?

      2. idiocracy Avatar
        idiocracy

        Illinois isn’t all that bad because, unlike Virginia, it doesn’t have an economy that mostly depends on Federal spending.

        1. sherlockj Avatar
          sherlockj

          I’m sorry to relate that two major credit ratings agencies, Standard and Poor’s Global Ratings and Moody’s Investors Service, in May dropped the credit outlook on Illinois’ BBB- credit rating to “negative” from “stable” on expectations that economic fallout from COVID-19 will strain state budgets.

          Both currently rank Illinois bonds just one notch above non-investment grade debt, also known as “junk” status. The Prairie State has the lowest rating among states across all three agencies.

          That is the result of the Democratic/public employee model of governance that Illinois has perfected. Illinois has over $130 billion in unfunded pension liabilities

          1. idiocracy Avatar
            idiocracy

            Well, we don’t have to worry about any of that in Virginia, so long as the FedGov continues to print money.

    3. WayneS Avatar

      Democrats in positions of power are just as duty-bound to enforce state law as are republicans in positions of power. Are you saying democrats would violate their oaths of office in order to pander to a labor organization?

      1. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        NEVER! but do they pander? do bears do it in the woods?

        How about the GOP? do they pander? see above.

    4. djrippert Avatar
      djrippert

      Interesting perspective. Apparently you are the beneficiary of a new online law degree. Hopefully you learned more law in that process than Fairfax County’s children learned through the horribly flawed virtual teaching conducted this Spring.

  4. LGABRIEL Avatar
    LGABRIEL

    I don’t suppose the Commonwealths Attorney in Fairfax would step up to enforce the law. Or was that one of those bought and paid for by George Soros? Wouldn’t want him to serve the people rather than his paymaster.

  5. Peter Galuszka Avatar
    Peter Galuszka

    So, we miraculously go to Soros? Could that be anti-Semitic? Blame the international Jewish conspiracy?

    1. sherlockj Avatar
      sherlockj

      You are slipping, Peter. Really. You are better than that comment.

    2. CrazyJD Avatar

      So too with his comment about repealing so-called “anti-union” laws. All without any supporting facts.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        you know, those laws they don’t enforce anymore, right?

        and the GOP would promise to do if elected… which is why they don’t….

  6. WayneS Avatar

    Those anti union laws do not need to be repealed.

    1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
      Nancy_Naive

      The unions saved this country from communism by empowering the very people who would have benefited from communism in the 1930s and kept a popular Revolution in check.

      So, what’s happening now?

      You want to end the ANTIFA movements and such, you’ll stop trying to kill unions and strike a happy medium.

      1. WayneS Avatar

        N_N – Please see the first comment in this thread, keeping in mind that by the rules of logic any gratuitous assertion can be just as gratuitously refuted.

        I would have expected you, of all people, to understand why I posted that comment.

        1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
          Nancy_Naive

          Wayne, sometimes you amaze me. Facetiousness like sarcasm requires a little less subtly.

          1. WayneS Avatar

            Thank you. I sometimes forget.

        2. LarrytheG Avatar
          LarrytheG

          just to warn – Crazy has taken on the job of Troll Police…

          1. WayneS Avatar

            There is nothing trollish about these comments. Just good, clean. fun.

      2. sherlockj Avatar
        sherlockj

        The unions that you are talking about are private sector, largely blue collar unions, which I strongly support.

        Now that public employees unions are in charge of the union movement, it is not clear that the country will remain “saved from communism”.

        1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
          Nancy_Naive

          Police unions? I might agree with you. But if you attempt to distinguish cops from the others, you shouldn’t win.

          1. sherlockj Avatar
            sherlockj

            What do you intend that to mean? You built a straw man, now explain it.

          2. Nancy_Naive Avatar
            Nancy_Naive

            Why is it the police unions are always excepted? Again, ala Wisconsin. That’s all. Whenever a State starts sweeping away previous agreements, the cops always get a pass.

          3. sherlockj Avatar
            sherlockj

            Did anyone here indicate that police unions are to be an exception to anything? I certainly did not.

        2. Nancy_Naive Avatar
          Nancy_Naive

          Funny, but true story. A friend was opening a store in a nearby State. The store was full of workers, drywalling, hammering, assembling displays, etc., etc.

          He had bought himself an IKEA desk, dragged it into the stock area, opened the box, and began reading the assembly directions.

          After awhile, he opened his briefcase and pulled out a screwdriver and began putting his desk together. All the workers stopped, sat down, and watched him. He smiled, went back to reading the instructions, and set his screwdriver down. All the workers turned and began to work.

          Once he got two pieces jammed together, he picked up the screwdriver to tighten the locks, and everyone stopped, sat down, and watched him. He put the screwdriver down, and everyone went back to work.

          This went on for about 15 minutes before he realized that every time he picked up the screwdriver everyone stopped what they were doing. Every time he put it down, they went back to work.

          Finally, the job foreman said, “This is a union State. We can’t work if you are holding a tool. We’ll assemble the desk. You do the paperwork.”

          1. sherlockj Avatar
            sherlockj

            Good story.

            Try living in New York City and trying to get a kitchen remodeled.

            It can take three lifetimes even after taking a year to pay someone to pay someone else to pay someone else to get the permits for all of drywall, plumbing, electrical, carpentry and other work.

            Also true story. Close relatives for whom the cost was not a factor gave up.

          2. Craig@EmbarkFund Avatar
            Craig@EmbarkFund

            Well, you can get your contracting done by trained, insured, licensed professionals earning a living wage – or you can get it done illegally by ‘illegals’. The latter will actually cost you more in end likely, but whatever. Who needs a country where there’s an actual middle class? In America, it’s all about getting rich and staying that way (inheriting ‘wealth’ aka privilege of some sort, mostly by being born white).

          3. WayneS Avatar

            “Well, you can get your contracting done by trained, insured, licensed professionals earning a living wage …”

            Yes, I can, right here in Virginia – and without having to worry about some stupid union rule that requires workers to put down their tools if I pick up a screwdriver, or which forbids painters from removing electrical outlet covers.

            And who said anything about hiring illegals?

          4. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            Well if you’re a worker – Republicans will fear you if you organize.

            Just not good for business…

            increased costs. limits ability of employer to
            deal with lazy employee, etc..

          5. VDOTyranny Avatar
            VDOTyranny

            @Craig, I guess you’re voting for Trump… build that wall, huh? Glad to know you think you got it all figured-out. Now, if everyone would just do what you tell them to do

  7. Peter Galuszka Avatar
    Peter Galuszka

    No I am not slipping. I have heard Soros bashing for years. I am laying a reality that BR would like to go unmentioned. Like the atrocity that is Donald Trump.

    1. PackerFan Avatar
      PackerFan

      Right Pete, and the other side hasn’t heard Koch Brothers and the NRA for years either, and the liberal’s have nothing but the most morally upright and infallible folks on there side. I hear a lot of them used to party with Jeffrey Epstein and his “friends”.

    2. sherlockj Avatar
      sherlockj

      So you are positioning the Republican party, not the progressive left, as the leading anti-Semitic voices today? Seriously? You had better check in with the campuses.

      Start with Anti-Semitism and the Intellectuals https://www.wsj.com/articles/anti-semitism-and-the-intellectuals-11592171963?mod=searchresults&page=1&pos=1

  8. Nancy_Naive Avatar
    Nancy_Naive

    So, yesterday I was watching some news show and a question was posed to a doctor, “Will leaving my mask in a closed car in the summer disinfect it?”

    The doctor replied that to clean a mask, it should be autoclaved at 200+ degrees, but that studies have shown that COV2 is killed at temperatures much, much lower, like those achieved in a closed car.

    I have an idea for opening schools.

    1. WayneS Avatar

      Make the children and teachers stay on the bus with the windows closed, right?

      😉

  9. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
    Dick Hall-Sizemore

    I am generally not in favor of public employees having the right to collectively bargain. However, Mr. Sherlock has exaggerated the potential consequences of allowing them to do so with the following statement: “Other states with public employees on one side of the bargaining table and elected officials on the other, have effectively bankrupted themselves….”,

    13 states have Triple A bond rating from all three bond rating agencies. All but two of those states allow at least some degree of public employee collective bargaining. The exceptions are Virginia and North Carolina. In fact, until the recent session, only Virginia and the two Carolinas had a blanket prohibition on public employee collective bargaining.

    The other states with Triple-Triple A ratings that also allow public employee collective bargaining are: Maryland, Delaware, Georgia, Indiana, Iowa, Missouri, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, and Utah.

    In summary, not all states that allow public employee collective bargaining are bankrupt.

    1. sherlockj Avatar
      sherlockj

      Apples to oranges.

      I don’t believe you will find that the states you list have a history of successful strike threats by public employees over working conditions.

      I have not exaggerated the potential consequences of these occurrences, even if you like the outcome.

      The overruling of elected officials by public employees has been taking place all over Virginia.

      Look at the successful lobbying of the Virginia Department of Labor and Industry by the teachers’ unions to overturn with workplace rules the rules for school reopening promulgated by the Governor and the Virginia Department of Education.

      You might not like the results next time. Again, welcome to Illinois.

      1. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
        Dick Hall-Sizemore

        You are moving the goal posts. Your original post equated public sector collective bargaining with state bankruptcy. Now you are trying to limit it to those with “successful strike threats”. I don’t know whether any of the other states with AAA ratings have had successful strike threats and I don’t believe you know either. To determine that would take about at least a week’s work of research and I have better things to do.

        1. Reed Fawell 3rd Avatar
          Reed Fawell 3rd

          Who wants to fight gridlocked Fairfax County traffic all the way to Fairfax County public schools for hours all early morning?

          Then, after arrival at school frazzled, mad, and frustrated, have to fight snotty, disorderly, vandal students all day long trying miserably to teach, with no backup at all,

          Then already exhausted, have to try to fight gridlocked Fairfax County traffic all the way home through road rage and tolls, only to stumble through the front of home, and triple exhausted to bedlam there.

          Who the hell is dumb enough to do all that when they can sit home all day in blessed safe solitude in front of computer screen a few hours a day, safe, happy, and hassle free. No Contest.

          Fairfax County public school teachers are never going back to those hellhole streets, highways, and blackboard jungle classrooms. That Public school Fairfax classroom and traffic madness is done, cooked, dead and gone.

  10. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
    James Wyatt Whitehead V

    Now that the Fairfax School Board has ceded this ground of willful misconduct to the VEA and AFT they will never get it back. Proceed to collective bargaining and do not pass GO.

  11. Peter Galuszka Avatar
    Peter Galuszka

    Packer fan. Or Roger Ailed and a host of other Fox sleazeballs.

  12. Peter Galuszka Avatar
    Peter Galuszka

    Ailed (hate smartphones)

    1. WayneS Avatar

      Well, he did for a while… …before he died.

    2. sherlockj Avatar
      sherlockj

      Ailes. (hate smart asses)

      1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
        Nancy_Naive

        Self loathing? First liar doesn’t stand a chance…

      2. WayneS Avatar

        [insert insincere sheepish grin here]

  13. Peter Galuszka Avatar
    Peter Galuszka

    I hate my IPhone

    1. djrippert Avatar
      djrippert

      It hates you too I’m sure.

  14. sherlockj Avatar
    sherlockj

    Some commenters continue to refer to private sector unions and public sector unions in the same breath as if there is no difference.

    As for me, I support blue collar private sector unions – always have.

    It is the public sector unions that I, as did FDR, find unacceptable for two reasons:
    – their built in power sitting across the “negotiating” table from elected officials, who they help elect; and
    – their power to disrupt essential public services.

    Laws denying the public sector unions the right to strike are designed to try to redress some of this imbalance.

    The events in Fairfax County show that Virginia, at least under Democratic leadership, has no intention of enforcing those laws.

    I think you all understand the issues here, but some choose not to refer to them, preferring to use industrial unions as your example because you can find no attractive examples from the history of public sector unions.

    That says it all.

    1. LarrytheG Avatar
      LarrytheG

      I support public sector unions for the same reason I support blue-collar unions – with the proviso that public sector unions cannot strike.

      I very much support collective bargaining for all employees for the same reason I support it for blue collar.

      Just FYI – the “industry” of the 21st century is the knowledge economy as well as the folks who help educate.

      One of the big issues Jim – is how teachers can be scapegoated for achievement issues in tough schools. Teachers need to have one set of rules to follow and not be vulnerable to a particular principal or administrator who is trying to evade accountability and pin in on a subordinate.

    2. Nancy_Naive Avatar
      Nancy_Naive

      “their built in power sitting across the “negotiating” table from elected officials, who they help elect; and,”

      This ain’t their fault. If there needs to be a better system for negotiation then create one, once removed from the elected. But look at it from their point, especially when a Governor can come sweeping into office and set aside previously negotiated settlements, a la Wisconsin.

  15. Peter Galuszka Avatar
    Peter Galuszka

    No. I believe that private and public have the right to organize. Always have. We disagree.

    1. sherlockj Avatar
      sherlockj

      We don’t disagree on the right to organize, just the right of public sector unions to collectively bargain and strike.

      Public sector unions in Virginia starting in May of 2021 will have the right to collectively bargain in localities that permit them to do so.

      I think that is a mistake and I think that will be made clear over the next 5 years. I hope I am wrong, but the results of the debacle in Fairfax County do not give me hope.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        Why should it be illegal to collectively bargain?

        1. sherlockj Avatar
          sherlockj

          You are going around in circles, Larry. In the case of public sector unions, this question was answered multiple times above.

  16. Peter Galuszka Avatar
    Peter Galuszka

    Ok. We disagree.

  17. LarrytheG Avatar
    LarrytheG

    So if the Fairfax County School Board was Republicans…what would happen?

    Certainly no more pandering or that even nastier virtue signaling, right?

    So this is actually an opportunity for the GOP given the anger of parents with regard to opening schools back up and the union-like behaviors of the teachers. right?

    Is this clearly not what the voters in Fairfax want?

  18. Eric the Half a Troll Avatar
    Eric the Half a Troll

    “That remains true today. Public-sector unions in Virginia will sit across the table negotiating with people they help elect, and not just with their votes.”

    The same can be said of private corporations. Instead of negotiating employment contracts, they are negotiating goods and services contracts, regulations, penalties, consent orders, and tax rates. Collectively, they are represented by lobbyists and associations. If it is good for the private business owner, it should be good for the public employee. And if you don’t think companies have great leverage in these days of outsourcing you’ve got another thing coming.

    1. VDOTyranny Avatar
      VDOTyranny

      differentate larger companies with government granted privileges, from smaller companies without, and I’ll cede your point.

  19. Peter Galuszka Avatar
    Peter Galuszka

    One of things about BR is the conceit of Virginia superiority. I have worked in Illinois although with no children and was impressed with the success of the old land grant system and its high caliber education. I Great night life! I worked in New York and came to love. I was in Cleveland which had great museums and sports. Moscow was a prize — an incredibly green city despite the foreign criticism. At the end of the day, I came back to the Old Dominion.

    1. idiocracy Avatar
      idiocracy

      I see plenty of examples every single day about why Virginia is not “superior”.

  20. Fairfax Co. was not the “ring leader” of 100% online learning.

    When the Trump administration was recently dumping poop on Fairfax Co. that was because Trump wanted full-time school, and Fairfax was only offering the hybrid part-time option. Then there became wave of online only decisions, eg, PW County, so Fairfax lost support of part-time option. Also the virus keep going stronger unfort, taking the proverbial “rug” out from under the feet of the part-time advocates.

    Maybe there is a behind-the-scenes liberal social media think-tank controlling school response to COVID in Fairfax, but it’s pretty hard to shame them when everyone else in the Country is doing same.

    Students, I think, want to get back.

    1. LarrytheG Avatar
      LarrytheG

      yup.
      ” Maybe there is a behind-the-scenes liberal social media think-tank controlling school response to COVID in Fairfax, but it’s pretty hard to shame them when everyone else in the Country is doing same.”

      oh that won’t stop the poop-throwers… in their mind it’s a leftist conspiracy from those who indoctrinate the kids with all kinds of crap and they DEMAND that they start teaching it again!

      1. sherlockj Avatar
        sherlockj

        Larry, I wrote about teachers unions in Fairfax breaking Virginia law by refusing to return to their jobs. I then described the pending ability of those same unions to collectively bargain and the clear and present threat that poses.
        How you got to the nonsense you have written here is truly a strange and peripatetic journey.

        1. LarrytheG Avatar
          LarrytheG

          Jim – what you wrote was not factual. It was your opinion not an actual violation. For one thing there are no actual “unions”. You just made that up.

          No “union” took a strike vote then conducted a strike except in some folks furtive minds…

          I agree with you on peripatetic journey but probably not in the way you think.

          😉

      2. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
        James Wyatt Whitehead V

        Mr. Larry 82% of Chesterfield County parents want 5 days a week in person instruction. 91% of Henrico County teachers say they plan to return to school for in person instruction. Doesn’t matter which side of the fence you are on about open/virtual schools; school board members are going to be held accountable at the ballot box. Many superintendents are going to need to dust off their resumes to search for new jobs. I look forward to this change in leadership.

  21. LarrytheG Avatar
    LarrytheG

    Hey James… do you have cites for those numbers… especially Henrico?

    You should post them here … to this point – I’ve not seen a whole lot along those lines. In the Fburg area – it’s all remote or hybrid so far.

    In terms of ballots…. you may be correct. I have yet to seen any candidates for school board yet who are advocating “open up now” but perhaps we’re a bit early for elections?

    I don’t know about your area but in mine – every year the School Board does a budget and every year there is a donnybrook with the BOS over the numbers…

  22. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
    James Wyatt Whitehead V
    1. LarrytheG Avatar
      LarrytheG

      James – thank you!

  23. Tom Banford Avatar
    Tom Banford

    So if half or more of the faculty and staff decide to retire or resign in response to the district’s decision what happens then? Such action by the teachers and staff would effectively shut down the district to even remote learning.

    1. LarrytheG Avatar
      LarrytheG

      And that’s why I ask what the plan is to replace staff – if not enough will want to do it or they do and then there is an outbreak.

      We know what some folks want – but they don’t see to know or care how it would work. It’s single-minded in what it wants and seems to be a characteristic of the “open up now” folks.

      Just take a look at other institutions – like professional sports and see the contortions they are going through to try to “open” and even then they’re not going to be open like they used to.

      Airlines are another, Cruise ships are done for now.

      This is really not that much about the “kids” – it’s become, like the masks, a partisan wedge issue. Long, long before COVID19 – parents homeschooled their kids, sent them to private academies, paid for tutors, etc.

      But none of those are being proposed as alternatives now – nope – the schools have to open up like before – or we’re gonna throw a hissy fit.

    2. sherlockj Avatar
      sherlockj

      Bingo, Tom. That is the threat the Fairfax teachers used to blackmail the school board. The threat itself is illegal in Virginia because the action it threatened would be illegal.

      The right response would have been to call all school employees to their schools to fill out and sign a witnessed affidavit that let them declare whether they would report to work if the school board decided on in-person instruction.

      All the normal caveats concerning age and complicating conditions could be listed and claimed if true. A false claim of a complicating condition would result in permanent termination.

      The school board would then have a list of who would do their jobs and who would refuse. Those who refuse would be terminated and could re-apply in 12 months as per state law.

      So what if that was a lot of personnel. Hire more. Worst case, the situation would be temporary and that would be the last the parents and children of Fairfax County, where I grew up and once taught school, would have had to concern themselves by a strike by the people they pay to serve them.

      If the threat is allowed to work, as it did in Fairfax, then electing a school board is a waste of time. The employees will run the system.

      I don’t know your age so I don’t know if you were around when President Reagan fired every air traffic controller for a similar illegal work action. Last time we ever heard of a federal employee strike.

      1. Matt Hurt Avatar
        Matt Hurt

        Well, on the other hand, would it not be better to have this conversation collectively now, that to have hundreds of teachers individually leave the division in droves? There is a significant teacher shortage as it is, and many have found they can go elsewhere or into other fields which are more lucrative. If they were to leave in droves, where would you find the replacements. I get the legality of strikes and how the threats seem to be a slap in the face of the rule of law, but there could be potentially worse outcomes if this conversation had not happened. Teaching is a tough business, and I think too few folks recognize this fact.

        1. LarrytheG Avatar
          LarrytheG

          re: ” Teaching is a tough business, and I think too few folks recognize this fact.”

          Naw.. If you listen to the critics, it’s the life of Riley… and anyone can teach…

  24. Inthemiddle Avatar
    Inthemiddle

    As I’ve mentioned before, when the coronavirus miraculously disappears (as promised by Our Glorious Leader), schools will miraculously open.

    Schools should be able re-open where the virus is under control. Everywhere else, there’s no point in pouring gas on the blazing pandemic.

    1. sherlockj Avatar
      sherlockj

      Some schools will miraculously reopen on November 4th.

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