Bacon's Rebellion

Democracy Thrives in Sunlight

Virginia’s Top and Bottom Local School Divisions, 2023

—

by

Bob Rayner
in

by John Butcher

Professor Excel is glad to sort the Division test results so let’s look at the top and bottom performers.

But first: On average, Virginia’s economically disadvantaged (ED) students pass at about 20% lower rates than their more affluent peers (Not ED). Thus, the overall division averages are affected by the relative percentages of ED students, which is not a performance metric. The excellent VDOE Build-A-Table offers data for both groups, so let’s look at them separately.

First, the top Not ED performers on the reading tests. The gold fills are Region VII founding divisions of the Comprehensive Instructional Program.

And the top ED divisions.

Next, math.

Next, the lowest division averages, starting with reading.

And math.

Republished with permission from Cranky’s Blog.

 

 

 

 

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81 responses to “Virginia’s Top and Bottom Local School Divisions, 2023”

  1. Bob X from Texas Avatar
    Bob X from Texas

    All the students in the failing schools scored an A in their Diversity Classes, Inclusion classes, and Equity classes.
    Math, history, and science classes were considered racist and manipulative.

  2. LarrytheG Avatar
    LarrytheG

    Awesome Data Man! I wonder how hard it would be to add a column that show percent of ED?

    The other thing I notice… is what appears to be a distinction between rural and non-rural.

    I’ve had several meaningful discussions with Matt over various aspects of CIP. For instance, rural school districts tend to have fewer schools and few schools that are serving mostly low-income neighborhoods.

    I can provide some insight for Fredericksburg. It has large populations of folks living in subsidized apartments and far fewer kids from richer single family neighborhoods. A fair number of higher income kids attend private schools.

    Petersburg DOES stand out like the sore thumb it is and shown to be by Cranky’s slice and dice of the data.

    I STILL point out – and can supply here the specific schools in Henrico and Chesterfield that perform more like Petersburg Schools than Henrico/Chesterfield schools and one might presume with Henrico/Chesterfield that there IS good school leadership but despite it they still have some poorly performing schools.

    Finally, I note this:

    ” Gov. Youngkin highlights ‘All in VA’ plan during visit to Petersburg school
    Gov. Youngkin: “I think there’s learnings in Petersburg on how to ramp up quickly that can be shared with other jurisdictions.”

    https://www.nbc12.com/2023/09/13/gov-youngkin-highlights-all-va-plan-during-visit-petersburg-school/

    Note he says: “can be shared with other jurisdictions”. He’s acknowledging there are other schools also like Petersburg schools.

    CIP has a lot going for it and I would think the idea of establishing a standard way of teaching ED kids especially for new teachers – a good thing and way better than throwing new teachers, as more stand-alone individuals to the wolves in place like Petersburg where they either sink or swim and if they swim, they’re gonna flee to an easier place to teach if they can so that Petersburg will more likely be perpetually getting “new” , less experienced teachers.

    What they need is good veterans and Masters Degree reading and math specialists and the money to hire and keep them.

    I have zero problems with Richmond “taking over” Petersburg Schools but I strongly suspect that both DOE and Youngkin are nobody’s fools and KNOW that just changing leadership is not going to really fix the problem.

    Cranky does great at pointing out just how terrible things are and we need it but we can’t seem to get the second part going which is the walk-the-walk after we’ve done the talk.

  3. WayneS Avatar
    WayneS

    No real surprises.

    Charlottesville City is an interesting case.

    They are one of the top school systems in the state if you look only at “Non-ED”. They are one of the worst systems in the state if you look only at “ED”

    1. Lefty665 Avatar
      Lefty665

      Yet 86% of C’ville’s students are classified as “gifted”. What do you suppose, their ED students only count as 5/8 (it’s a Jeffersonian ratio, enshrined in the Constitution) of a person when calculating giftedness?

      1. WayneS Avatar
        WayneS

        I think it’s 3/5 (three-fifths) but your point is taken.

  4. CJBova Avatar
    CJBova

    Congratulations to Matt Hurt and everyone involved with CIP! Impressive results. Thank you, John Butcher for sharing this info!

  5. DJRippert Avatar
    DJRippert

    The first missing link is English as a Second Language. ESL students must being down the averages for ED and non-ED.

    The second missing link is the definition of ED vs the cost of living in a given district. As far as I know, the definition of ED is based on free school meals which, in turn, is at least partially based on SNAP benefits. Do the income levels used to determine eligibility for SNAP vary by area (and cost of living)?

    1. LarrytheG Avatar
      LarrytheG

      Since DJ is from NoVa… below is a list of Fairfax county elementary schools Grade 3 SOL Reading scores for both ED and non ED kids from the VDOE build-a-table.

      Look at the good scores but also look at the terrible scores for entire schools, in the 40’s and 30’s and lower!

      As bad as the scores in Petersburg Schools a difference being that most of Petersburg schools are this way and not all Fairfax schools by a long shot:

      Does the blame go to the leadership ?

      School Name Disadvantaged Pass Rate

      Aldrin Elementary N 89.19
      Aldrin Elementary Y 56.25
      Annandale Terrace Elementary N 62.5
      Annandale Terrace Elementary Y 51.35
      Archer Elementary N 94.59
      Archer Elementary Y 66.67
      Armstrong Elementary N 70.97
      Armstrong Elementary Y <50
      Bailey's Upper Elementary School for the Arts and Sciences N 46.97
      Bailey's Upper Elementary School for the Arts and Sciences Y 20
      Beech Tree Elementary N 77.78
      Beech Tree Elementary Y 53.33
      Belle View Elementary N 86.21
      Belle View Elementary Y <50
      Belvedere Elementary N 87.93
      Belvedere Elementary Y 66.1
      Bonnie Brae Elementary N 78.26
      Bonnie Brae Elementary Y 50
      Braddock Elementary N 48.39
      Braddock Elementary Y 35.05
      Bren Mar Park Elementary N 58.33
      Bren Mar Park Elementary Y 35.29
      Brookfield Elementary N 53.13
      Brookfield Elementary Y 43.14
      Bucknell Elementary N 50
      Chesterbrook Elementary N 88.71
      Churchill Road Elementary N 93.33
      Churchill Road Elementary Y >50
      Clearview Elementary N 81.25
      Clearview Elementary Y 40.48
      Clermont Elementary N 85.51
      Clermont Elementary Y 50
      Coates Elementary N 77.78
      Coates Elementary Y 36.92
      Columbia Elementary N 84.62
      Columbia Elementary Y 53.57
      Colvin Run Elementary N 96.15
      Colvin Run Elementary Y >50
      Crestwood Elementary N 52.63
      Crestwood Elementary Y 36.59
      Crossfield Elementary N 80
      Crossfield Elementary Y >50
      Cub Run Elementary N 81.67
      Cub Run Elementary Y 58.82
      Cunningham Park Elementary N 84.62
      Cunningham Park Elementary Y 50
      Flint Hill Elementary N 96.1
      Flint Hill Elementary Y >50
      Floris Elementary N 81.82
      Floris Elementary Y >50
      Forest Edge Elementary N 88
      Forest Edge Elementary Y 37.5
      Forestdale Elementary N 70
      Forestdale Elementary Y 31.43
      Forestville Elementary N 91.55
      Forestville Elementary Y >50
      Fort Belvoir Upper Elementary N 70
      Fort Belvoir Upper Elementary Y 55.93
      Fort Hunt Elementary N 83.33
      Fort Hunt Elementary Y <50
      Fox Mill Elementary N 93.06
      Fox Mill Elementary Y 69.23
      Franconia Elementary N 68.75
      Franconia Elementary Y 50
      Freedom Hill Elementary N 82.22
      Freedom Hill Elementary Y 35.48
      Garfield Elementary N 58.33
      Garfield Elementary Y 52.38
      Glen Forest Elementary N 41.94
      Glen Forest Elementary Y 36.54
      Graham Road Elementary N 50
      Hayfield Elementary N 67.65
      Hayfield Elementary Y 66.67
      Herndon Elementary N 65.63
      Herndon Elementary Y 17.81
      Hollin Meadows Elementary N 72.22
      Hollin Meadows Elementary Y 36.54
      Hunt Valley Elementary N 89.36
      Hunt Valley Elementary Y <50
      Hunters Woods Elementary School for the Arts and Sciences N 88.89
      Hunters Woods Elementary School for the Arts and Sciences Y 44.83
      Hutchison Elementary N 22.86
      Hutchison Elementary Y 26.67
      Hybla Valley Elementary N 50
      Keene Mill Elementary N 95.61
      Keene Mill Elementary Y 56.25
      Kent Gardens Elementary N 92.7
      Kent Gardens Elementary Y >50
      Kings Park Elementary N 81.15
      Kings Park Elementary Y 60
      Lake Anne Elementary N 76.32
      Lake Anne Elementary Y 37.14
      Lane Elementary N 77.91
      Lane Elementary Y <50
      Laurel Hill Elementary N 81.4
      Laurel Hill Elementary Y 65.38
      Laurel Ridge Elementary N 82.08
      Laurel Ridge Elementary Y <50
      Lees Corner Elementary N 81.94
      Lees Corner Elementary Y 50
      Little Run Elementary N 82.14
      Little Run Elementary Y >50
      London Towne Elementary N 63.64
      London Towne Elementary Y 42.86
      Lorton Station Elementary N 80.49
      Lorton Station Elementary Y 38.78
      Lynbrook Elementary N <50
      Lynbrook Elementary Y 32.65
      Mantua Elementary N 88.71
      Mantua Elementary Y 83.33
      Marshall Road Elementary N 81.03
      Marshall Road Elementary Y 39.13
      Mason Crest Elementary N 72.92
      Mason Crest Elementary Y 31.37
      McNair Upper Elementary N 86.24
      McNair Upper Elementary Y 42
      Mosaic Elementary N 92.86
      Mosaic Elementary Y 35.9
      Mount Eagle Elementary N <50
      Mount Eagle Elementary Y 8.7
      Mount Vernon Woods Elementary N 50
      Mount Vernon Woods Elementary Y 47.37
      Navy Elementary N 92.44
      Navy Elementary Y 78.57
      Newington Forest Elementary N 83.08
      Newington Forest Elementary Y 50
      North Springfield Elementary N 84.62
      North Springfield Elementary Y 50
      Oak Hill Elementary N 90.43
      Oak Hill Elementary Y 50
      Oak View Elementary N 80.67
      Oak View Elementary Y 63.64
      Oakton Elementary N 95.18
      Oakton Elementary Y 50
      Olde Creek Elementary N 86.36
      Olde Creek Elementary Y 50
      Powell Elementary N 75.76
      Powell Elementary Y 62.5
      Providence Elementary N 84.75
      Providence Elementary Y 52.54
      Ravensworth Elementary N 81.25
      Ravensworth Elementary Y 70.59
      Riverside Elementary N 73.33
      Riverside Elementary Y 56.36
      Rolling Valley Elementary N 75.44
      Rolling Valley Elementary Y 54.17
      Rose Hill Elementary N 55.56
      Rose Hill Elementary Y 34.88
      Sangster Elementary N 94.2
      Sangster Elementary Y >50
      Saratoga Elementary N 76.47
      Saratoga Elementary Y 65
      Sherman Elementary N 89.66
      Sherman Elementary Y >50
      Shrevewood Elementary N 81.13
      Shrevewood Elementary Y 50
      Sleepy Hollow Elementary N 74.19
      Sleepy Hollow Elementary Y 50
      Spring Hill Elementary N 97.48
      Spring Hill Elementary Y 57.14
      Springfield Estates Elementary N 90.63
      Springfield Estates Elementary Y 64.29
      Stenwood Elementary N 94.34
      Stenwood Elementary Y >50
      Stratford Landing Elementary N 82
      Stratford Landing Elementary Y 55.88
      Sunrise Valley Elementary N 90.63
      Sunrise Valley Elementary Y 80
      Terra Centre Elementary N 86.75
      Terra Centre Elementary Y 66.67
      Terraset Elementary N 79.69
      Terraset Elementary Y 28.57
      Timber Lane Elementary N 50
      Timber Lane Elementary Y 30.61
      Union Mill Elementary N 79.13
      Union Mill Elementary Y 70.59
      Vienna Elementary N 74.36
      Vienna Elementary Y >50
      Virginia Run Elementary N 78.33
      Virginia Run Elementary Y 50
      Wakefield Forest Elementary N 93.48
      Wakefield Forest Elementary Y >50
      Waples Mill Elementary N 81.25
      Waples Mill Elementary Y 34.78
      Washington Mill Elementary N 82.35
      Washington Mill Elementary Y 45.45
      Waynewood Elementary N 95.69
      Waynewood Elementary Y >50
      West Springfield Elementary N 91.25
      West Springfield Elementary Y 80
      Westbriar Elementary N 91.82
      Westbriar Elementary Y 64.71
      Westgate Elementary N 81.58
      Westgate Elementary Y 50
      Westlawn Elementary N 56.25
      Westlawn Elementary Y 29.51
      Weyanoke Elementary N 63.16
      Weyanoke Elementary Y 29.82
      White Oaks Elementary N 86.3
      White Oaks Elementary Y 66.67
      Willow Springs Elementary N 91.3
      Willow Springs Elementary Y 90.91
      Wolftrap Elementary N 93.15
      Wolftrap Elementary Y >50
      Woodburn Elementary N 77.78
      Woodburn Elementary Y 23.53
      Woodlawn Elementary N 42.86
      Woodlawn Elementary Y 42.5
      Woodley Hills Elementary N <50
      Woodley Hills Elementary Y 34.09

      1. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        Here’s the scores 40 and under:

        Mount Eagle Elementary Y 8.7
        Graham Road Elementary Y 15.15
        Herndon Elementary Y 17.81
        Bailey’s Upper Elementary School for the Arts and Sciences Y 20
        Hutchison Elementary N 22.86
        Woodburn Elementary Y 23.53
        Dogwood Elementary Y 25
        Dranesville Elementary Y 25
        Hutchison Elementary Y 26.67
        Hybla Valley Elementary Y 27.5
        Eagle View Elementary Y 28.57
        Greenbriar West Elementary Y 28.57
        Terraset Elementary Y 28.57
        Westlawn Elementary Y 29.51
        Weyanoke Elementary Y 29.82
        Daniels Run Elementary Y 30.43
        Timber Lane Elementary Y 30.61
        Bucknell Elementary Y 30.77
        Centre Ridge Elementary Y 31.37
        Mason Crest Elementary Y 31.37
        Forestdale Elementary Y 31.43
        Lynbrook Elementary Y 32.65
        Woodley Hills Elementary Y 34.09
        Waples Mill Elementary Y 34.78
        Rose Hill Elementary Y 34.88
        Bull Run Elementary Y 35
        Braddock Elementary Y 35.05
        Bren Mar Park Elementary Y 35.29
        Freedom Hill Elementary Y 35.48
        Groveton Elementary Y 35.59
        Mosaic Elementary Y 35.9
        Glen Forest Elementary Y 36.54
        Hollin Meadows Elementary Y 36.54
        Crestwood Elementary Y 36.59
        Coates Elementary Y 36.92
        Lake Anne Elementary Y 37.14
        Deer Park Elementary Y 37.5
        Forest Edge Elementary Y 37.5
        Lorton Station Elementary Y 38.78
        Marshall Road Elementary Y 39.13
        Pine Spring Elementary Y 39.58

    2. LarrytheG Avatar
      LarrytheG

      from the build-a-table data dictionary:

      ” Economically Disadvantaged A flag that identifies students as economically disadvantaged
      if they meet any one of the following: 1) is eligible for Free/Reduced Meals, or 2) receives
      TANF, or 3) is eligible for Medicaid, or 4) identified as either Migrant or experiencing
      Homelessness.”

      1/3 of children in Virginia have Medicaid for health insurance.

      1. Not Today Avatar
        Not Today

        The federal thresholds for benefit eligibility do not account for COL variation nationwide.

      2. Not Today Avatar
        Not Today

        The federal thresholds for benefit eligibility do not account for COL variation nationwide.

        1. DJRippert Avatar
          DJRippert

          Thank you. That renders the VDOE data all but useless in a state like Virginia with wide variances in cost of living.

          Poverty in Wise County occurs a much lower income level than poverty in Arlington County.

          1. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            That’s an important point that also plays into what percentage of a given school is ED. One school could be 10% ED while another 90%.

            Does the 90% school have many more reading/math specialists and such? Smaller class sizes? Tutoring?

          2. DJRippert Avatar
            DJRippert

            Exactly right. Poverty is relative to the cost of living. By failing to recognize that, VDOE’s statistics make school-to-school comparisons (other than for schools in roughly the same cost of living areas) invalid.

          3. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            Fairfax ALREADY has quite a few schools with ED kids. Are you thinking there are even more if COL was done ‘right’?

          4. DJRippert Avatar
            DJRippert

            Yes, definitely. How can the same measure of poverty apply to Fairfax County and Wise County?

          5. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            Does that mean more kids are actually entitled to free & reduced but don’t qualify because of income?

          6. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            two other factors go into free & reduced, TANF and Medicaid. I think one or both are adjusted for cost of living.

            I’ll have to go look some more because I thought the education level of the parents was also a factor in “at risk” of which I’ll admit I’m not sure how that relates exactly to “economically disadvantaged” if at all.

    3. WayneS Avatar
      WayneS

      Here is a link to some data about FCPS’s Mount Eagle Elementary School in Alexandria (the worst scoring school on the list of FCPS elementary schools that Larry posted).

      Yes, it is only one data point, but you can see that about 50% of the students at that school are enrolled in “English Learner Services” which I assume is ‘edu-speak’ for ESL.

      https://schoolprofiles.fcps.edu/schlprfl/f?p=108:13:::NO::P0_CURRENT_SCHOOL_ID,P0_EDSL:203,0

      1. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        Yep. I did not try to delve into each school and some of the ultra-low probably are undoubtedly ESL.

        If it makes anyone feel better, throw out the ultra-low scores that may well be ESL. There still remains dozens that are at or below the Petersburg results, although ESLs supposedly also need to pass English reading at some point,

        It’s not “Larry’s data though. It’s Fairfax data extracted from the same place the Petersburg Data has been extracted from.

        There are also some valid questions about other demographics between the rural CIP schools and these more urbanized schools that ought to be delineated IMO.

      2. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        Yep. I did not try to delve into each school and some of the ultra-low probably are undoubtedly ESL.

        If it makes anyone feel better, throw out the ultra-low scores that may well be ESL. There still remains dozens that are at or below the Petersburg results, although ESLs supposedly also need to pass English reading at some point,

        It’s not “Larry’s data though. It’s Fairfax data extracted from the same place the Petersburg Data has been extracted from.

        There are also some valid questions about other demographics between the rural CIP schools and these more urbanized schools that ought to be delineated IMO.

        Should Fairfax and it’s administrators be any more or less subject to the same scrutiny and potential intervention than Petersburg?

        If we look around Virginia at other individual schools within larger school districts, might we also find some low scoring schools of similar calibre?

        Can we surmise by looking at the data that Petersburg is not unique with regard to this problem?

        1. WayneS Avatar
          WayneS

          I did not say it was “Larry’s data”. I’m not sure who you were quoting, but all I said is that it was a list you posted.

          Please stop reading things into my comments that are not there.

        2. WayneS Avatar
          WayneS

          I did not say it was “Larry’s data”. I’m not sure who you were quoting, but all I said is that it was a list you posted.

          Please stop reading things into my comments that are not there.

          1. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            You did not… but often is said or implied so I just wanted to make clear where the data did come from – ALSO not a just a ” list Larry posted”l (any more than Cranky posting a “list” “…. in BOTH cases, it’s actual SOL data the same as the data posted for Petersburg.

            from now on, I will quote you verbatim when I respond to you if that suits you. No problem.

          2. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            You did not… but often is said or implied so I just wanted to make clear where the data did come from – ALSO not a just a ” list Larry posted”l (any more than Cranky posting a “list” “…. in BOTH cases, it’s actual SOL data the same as the data posted for Petersburg.

            from now on, I will quote you verbatim when I respond to you if that suits you. No problem.

          3. WayneS Avatar
            WayneS

            I gave people enough credit to assume they knew where the data you posted came from and that they didn’t need it footnoted every time someone else referenced it. You are one of only two people who consistently misinterpret or ‘over-interpret’ the comments I make here, so I’m pretty sure the problem is not with my writing.

            In any event, your pedantic overanalyzing of my comments can be very annoying.

          4. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            I’ll quote you verbatim from now on.

            I don’t think I actually do.. I think I usually am on it… but in this case.. fair to point out that the source was the same “list” that Cranky was using.. not my own or a different one.

            You could have made that clear in your comment also.

        3. CJBova Avatar
          CJBova

          Overall averages blur the details. If you want to look at a specific school, you need to look at all the subgroups where they’re available. (If count is less than 10, results are suppressed. Count between 10 and 20 will show if pass or fail is more or less than 50%. So that can complicate the picture.)

          Besides All Genders, Male, Female and racial/ethnic categories, there are: Disadvantaged, English Learner, Migrant, Homeless, Military Connected, Foster Care, Disabled.
          For Disability types, you can choose All Students, Autism, Deaf – Blindness, Developmental Delay, Emotional Disturbance, Hearing Impairments, Intellectual Disabilities, Multiple Disabilities, Orthopedic impairments, Other health impairments, Specific Learning Disabilities, Speech or Language Impairments, Traumatic Brain Injured, Visual Impairments.

          1. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            Yes. BUT, if THE issue is a low SOL score for too many in most or ALL of the individual schools in a school district LIKE Petersburg – there are many other districts in Virginia that also have similar problems with individual schools with similar ED versus non-ED demographics.

            What that means is that Petersburg is not unique on the issue, that many other schools in Virginia have very similar issues that get to the point about the entire school and why that entire school has such low scores.

            The build-a-table database allows one to break out a lot of subcategories but the most relevant ones are non-ED versus ED when discussing schools in Petersburg (and Richmond) and I just make the point, that if you look at other schools in Virginia at the individual school level, you’ll find similar issues between ED and non ED scoring.

            It’s just not a problem for Petersburg.

            And actually if you just take the ED out of it and just focus on the overal SOL scores of which Petersburg has terrible, they are not alone on it from an individual school perspective. There are schools, many schools all over Virginia, including in higher income jurisdictions that also have terrible SOL scores just like the individual schools in Petersburg do.

      3. DJRippert Avatar
        DJRippert

        Thank you. An example of why the VDOE data is deficient.

        Comparing students, ED or not, who speak English as a first language and ESL students is pure folly. Of course the students who are learning English while they are learning everything else are going to struggle more.

        1. WayneS Avatar
          WayneS

          Mr. Rippert,

          Fairfax County and Wise County have similar percentages – +/-62% for Fairfax, +/-60% for Wise.

          Here are their 2022/23 test results, obtained from the Build-a-table:

          https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/b70608348033ae824c44ec6d85edd027ee8183db35e89ced153d8350eea4406b.jpg

          Again, only a single comparison, but you are probably on to something regarding ESL students negatively affecting test scores. According to Wise County’s web-site they have 0.00% ESL students.

  6. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
    Dick Hall-Sizemore

    Petersburg is the school district that sticks out in this data and in the comments above. It just happens that I had a long conversation today with someone who has long been very familiar with Petersburg and its schools. From that conversation I came away with the conviction that not all “non-ED” students are the same. In comparing Petersburg students with those in the CIP jurisdictions it would be helpful to ask how many non-ED students in each jurisdiction come from single parent homes? How many non-ED students have experienced violence either in the home or in the neighborhood? What is the rate of absenteeism? There are probably other metrics beyond income that one could use to compare the non-ED students from these areas. These are the types of factors that result in behavior problems in schools and difficulty in learning.

    I don’t mean to denigrate the achievements of the CIP schools. They are outstanding and the rest of the state could probably learn a lot from what they are doing. At the same time, the problems facing the Petersburg teachers may be entirely different than the ones facing the CIP teachers.

    1. Nathan Avatar
      Nathan

      “There are probably other metrics beyond income that one could use to compare the non-ED students from these areas. These are the types of factors that result in behavior problems in schools and difficulty in learning.”

      VERY true, but I doubt you will ever get a complete picture of what’s going on in those homes because of the personal nature of that information.

      “At the same time, the problems facing the Petersburg teachers may be entirely different than the ones facing the CIP teachers.”

      Maybe, and maybe not. I have several relatives who work in rural schools in Virginia, and most work with students who have special needs of one kind or another. Many of the home situations are tragic and heartbreaking.

      – Students raised by a grandparent because neither biological parent is fit, or is willing to take them.

      – Students with parent(s) in jail

      – Students with parent(s) on drugs

      – Students with abusive parents

      – Students with parents in the midst of an ugly divorce and custody battle.

  7. LarrytheG Avatar
    LarrytheG

    To add some more perspective with respect to comparing school divisions verses comparing schools within divisions.

    Data does not lie but it’s important to look at ALL the data to really gain a more informative perspective:

    Here is Petersburg City’s 3rd Grade SOL scores by school:

    Cool Spring Elementary 37.66
    Lakemont Elementary 35.14
    Pleasants Lane Elem 36.67
    Walnut Hill Elementary 46.25

    Now take a look at the lowest 20 or 30 Elementary schools in Fairfax ( The Ys indicate ED) :

    Mount Eagle Elementary Y 8.7
    Graham Road Elementary Y 15.15
    Herndon Elementary Y 17.81
    Bailey’s Upper Elementary School for the Arts and Sciences Y 20
    Hutchison Elementary N 22.86
    Woodburn Elementary Y 23.53
    Dogwood Elementary Y 25
    Dranesville Elementary Y 25
    Hutchison Elementary Y 26.67
    Hybla Valley Elementary Y 27.5
    Eagle View Elementary Y 28.57
    Greenbriar West Elementary Y 28.57
    Terraset Elementary Y 28.57
    Westlawn Elementary Y 29.51
    Weyanoke Elementary Y 29.82
    Daniels Run Elementary Y 30.43
    Timber Lane Elementary Y 30.61
    Bucknell Elementary Y 30.77
    Centre Ridge Elementary Y 31.37
    Mason Crest Elementary Y 31.37
    Forestdale Elementary Y 31.43
    Lynbrook Elementary Y 32.65
    Woodley Hills Elementary Y 34.0

    So , in terms of Petersburg appearing to be the worst in Virginia , what does this data show with respect to Fairfax Elementary Schools?

    Is there an equivalent “crisis” in Fairfax ?

    Does Fairfax actually have a far bigger problem than Petersburg with respect to the sheer number of schools with issues?

    Does this data call into question the leadership of Fairfax Schools similarly to perhaps leadership of the Petersburg schools is considered?

    Does Fairfax also merit similar scrutiny from DOE to also consider some level of intervention?

    1. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
      Dick Hall-Sizemore

      Thanks, Larry, for this digging and showing this perspective. The ED students are the ones that are having difficulty. Petersburg shows up so badly because a very large proportion of its student body is ED. Falls Church is one of the richest localities in the country. Only a small proportion of its student body is ED; hence, its high score.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        You bet. I am of the opinion that ED is the problem not only in Petersburg but other systems, even systems perceived as GOOD, like Fairfax or Henrico.

        Not just a “Petersburg” problem.

        And hopefully not just a Petersburg-only focus on fixing.

        1. Nancy Naive Avatar
          Nancy Naive

          Think bigger! https://www.pbs.org/newshour/education/new-report-shows-majority-u-s-students-low-income#:~:text=The%20south%20and%20west%20had,Mexico%20followed%20at%2068%20percent.

          Old but still in effect; true for the school, true for the district, true for the State too.

          The key statement. When you measure “success” by standardized testing, then the more students who can afford to prepare, the more successful you appear, and vice versa on failure.

          1. CJBova Avatar
            CJBova

            Nonsense. In the CIP K-12 schools that did well on the SOLs, the success came not from paid preparation, it came from shared successful teaching techniques and curriculum.

          2. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            And poor scores comes from poverty.
            It really is “lack of money is the root of all evils”.

            Paid preparation isn’t the only form of preparation for standardized tests. And, you don’t get great at-home preparation when both, or the only, parent is hustling 80hrs/wk to survive.

            Nevertheless, greater percentage of poverty translates to poorer standardized test results, albeit not the only factors.

            https://ed100.org/lessons/poverty#:~:text=Schools%20with%20low%20test%20scores,districts%20in%20Massachusetts%20and%20California.

          3. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            That’s one reason I asked Cranky if he could add a column that showed the percentage of ED kids in a school.

            When you have schools like Henrico, Chesterfield, Fairfax (and others) that have good performing schools but they also have poor performing schools, despite their greater resources and supposed better leadership, it points to the demographic itself.

            But I AGREE with the CIP thinking in that ED kids need a different approach to teaching AND they need a ” shared successful teaching techniques and curriculum.” more so than non ED kids.

            There ARE better ways to teach ED kids successfully IMO but many richer and better resourced school districts focus on getting as many of their students educated FIRST as their primary mission. Schools like Petersburg are much more hopeless. They have many more ED kids, far less resources, likely a lot of new teachers, turnover and not apparent they have some kind of CIP approach suitable to larger numbers of urban kids.

          4. WayneS Avatar
            WayneS

            So how do we explain systems like Wise County (or Washington County)?

            Like many school systems, Wise County has a high percentage of ED students (+/-60%). And they still have a gap between non-ED and ED student test scores (+/-10 percentage points).

            However, it is a much smaller gap than most districts’, and the average scores of their ED students are better than the average scores of the non-ED students in many districts.

          5. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            Well, I could suggest an explanation, but the last time I did, it got censored even though it has been publicized to have happened… just not here.

          6. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            yep.

          7. WayneS Avatar
            WayneS

            I must have missed that. Can I get a hint? Preferably one that won’t be deleted?

          8. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            Back a few. The reference was to, uh, let’s just say implying artificially inflated results. In explanation to what I meant I posted again citing the fact that Fani Willis cut her teeth on a RICO case brought against teachers. Apparently, NCLB was met in some places with less than honest reporting and other nefarious techniques for making things look good.

          9. WayneS Avatar
            WayneS

            Do you suspect it might still be going on?

          10. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            Does that sort of thing ever stop? Human condition and all that rot.

          11. WayneS Avatar
            WayneS

            Presupposing that it went on in the first place, of course.

            Have you seen/heard any evidence that the things that were going on in Atlanta schools were/are going on in Wise County or anywhere else in Virginia?

          12. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            Of course not. But one would have to be completely pollyannish not to consider the possibility at all. “If something appears too good to be true…”

          13. CJBova Avatar
            CJBova

            No idea what you’re talking about. I did not delete any of your comments on this post.

          14. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            Are you the exclusive deleter of posts? Then, it may not have been you.

          15. CJBova Avatar
            CJBova

            Jim delegated that role to me.

          16. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            Doesn’t answer the question.

            Perhaps I should have been more explicit. Are you the only person capable of deleting comments?

          17. CJBova Avatar
            CJBova

            All the editors could. But I looked in the deleted file, and no one else has.

    2. WayneS Avatar
      WayneS

      1) It shows that Fairfax has a lot of work to do. Next question: Are they doing it, or at least trying to do it?

      2) It certainly appears that way.

      3) Possibly.

      4) Yes.

      5) Yes. I think that would be a good idea.

      Fortunately, Fairfax has a lot of money they can throw at the problem if they choose to. And as any school administration ‘expert’ can tell you, ‘more money, more money’ will solve any problem with our public schools…

      1. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        Do you think it also shows Fairfax may have some problems not unlike those in Petersburg?

        Are they trying? Any more or less than Petersburg is and any more or less deserving of a
        state intervention and/or to think about replacing the leadership?

        1. WayneS Avatar
          WayneS

          Do you think it also shows Fairfax may have some problems not unlike those in Petersburg?

          Perhaps. It is true that problems of large school systems can be obscured if all one looks at is the percentage of poorly performing school in each district.

          100% of Petersburg’s school’s may perform poorly (and they do), but even though that percentage is much lower in FCPS, that system is failing to educate a lot more students than is Petersburg..

        2. WayneS Avatar
          WayneS

          Do you think it also shows Fairfax may have some problems not unlike those in Petersburg?

          Perhaps. It is true that problems at large school systems can be obscured if all one looks at is the percentage of poorly performing schools in each district.

          100% of Petersburg’s school’s may perform poorly (and they do), but even though that percentage is much lower in FCPS, that system is failing to educate a lot more students than is Petersburg.

          1. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            We agree.

          2. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            We agree.

      2. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        Fairfax has always had a lot of money but these issues are not really new. I’ve seen similar data for prior years.

        So do agree that MO money – per se – for the entire Fairfax School system vice MO money for individual schools for addition reading and math specialists?

        That would be one approach – more specialists and higher competence teachers and pay them incentives, etc.

        What would the State do different if it intervened?

        Would implementing a CIP type environment work?

        ‘What “works” for other entitles like Success Academies?

        1. f/k/a_tmtfairfax Avatar
          f/k/a_tmtfairfax

          Fairfax County schools with high levels of low-income students get lots of extra resources. They get federal, state and local funds. They have smaller class sizes, extra specialty (reading & math) teachers, counselors and psychologists. The Division allocates resources based on the number of low-income students in each school. They have received these extra resources for decades. So, why the poor results?

          A student must make an effort to use the resources provided. Parents or guardians must push the kids to use the resources. At some point, people choose to fail.

          1. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            so really nothing the Schools or the State can do much about?

            True of Petersburg also?

            True of kids in poorly performing schools in Henrico and Chesterfield also?

          2. f/k/a_tmtfairfax Avatar
            f/k/a_tmtfairfax

            Unless the student and his/her parent or guardian actively engage with what the schools are doing, the answer is “NO.” I’m not arguing that we should stop funding these programs because some kids and their families will take advantage of the programs and will learn reading and math. But it’s time to stop the “more money” cries.

          3. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            So you DO think the schools DO have enough reading and math specialists and better teachers than right out of college? So basically, you’re OK with the current SOL results at those schools with high numbers of low-income households? The schools have done all they can do and time to stop blaming them?

  8. Nathan Avatar
    Nathan

    Much of the article and comments seem like “inside baseball” to me. I may be new to this, but other casual BR readers may have questions too.

    “The gold fills are Region VII founding divisions of the Comprehensive Instructional Program.”

    Unless I’ve missed it, there’s no key to explain the other colors of school divisions on the Excel tables. What do the other colors (green, yellow, blue and red) signify?

    I also found it helpful to look up Comprehensive Instructional Program (CIP). The link to Cranky’s Blog was helpful, but stale. This was also helpful.

    https://www.cip.education/

    1. LarrytheG Avatar
      LarrytheG

      I agree. It may be helpful to revisit CIP and list out it’s elements and perhaps even compare and contrast what CIP does that was not done prior.

      1. Nathan Avatar
        Nathan

        Do you know what the other colors (green, yellow, blue and red) signify on the Excel spreadsheets?

    2. Nathan Avatar
      Nathan

      Map showing the school divisions that are participating in CIP.

      https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?mid=1KI-e6toxGF_s0Di9VnmJXdjOxiPkjK4D&femb=1&ll=38.41488604960152%2C-79.80316603155417&z=7

  9. Nancy Naive Avatar
    Nancy Naive

    https://news.stanford.edu/2019/09/23/new-data-tool-shows-school-poverty-leads-racial-achievement-gap/

  10. CJBova Avatar
    CJBova

    Based on the CIP map, there are more CIP Districts not marked in
    gold on the lists. CIP had 16 of 21 of the top scoring ED districts for reading, and a total of 6 of the 21 top scoring NOT ED!
    For math, 16 of the top ED, and 10 of the top NOT ED were CIP districts.

    1. LarrytheG Avatar
      LarrytheG

      Would be interested to KNOW how CIP is implemented formally. I’ve only read conceptual descriptions. I know of few other school districts that have gotten together as an alliance on teaching techniques and curriculum.

      So, for instance, what does CIP do specifically with regard to phonics? What standard is in place and implemented CIP-wide?

      1. CJBova Avatar
        CJBova

        This is not the subject of the current post and is veering off topic Read Matt Hurt’s articles as a start to understanding how it works.

        1. LarrytheG Avatar
          LarrytheG

          I did not bring it up Carol. Several others did and advocated it to improve the schools that are faring badly on the SOLs. It’s RIGHT ON TOPIC! WTH? If someone is going to advocate for it , then knowing what it is is totally ON TOPIC! geeze.

          1. CJBova Avatar
            CJBova

            No. There is a huge difference between acknowledging a system that is succeeding in difficult circumstances and advocating for universal use of it. This post informs readers of districts that are doing their job and those who aren’t. Specific details of CIP are off topic. When Matt Hurt has the time to write about CIP, then you can raise your questions. (I would guess the opening of the school year is not the best time!) In the meantime, go back to https://www.baconsrebellion.com/cip-the-secret-to-sw-virginia-schools-success/ for an overview.

  11. CJBova Avatar
    CJBova

    Based on the CIP map, there are more CIP Districts not marked in
    gold on the lists. CIP had 16 of 21 of the top scoring ED districts for reading, and a total of 6 of the 21 top scoring NOT ED!
    For math, 16 of the top ED, and 10 of the top NOT ED were CIP districts.

  12. Nancy Naive Avatar
    Nancy Naive

    Fix this https://www.visualcapitalist.com/the-decline-of-upward-mobility-in-one-chart/ and fix it all.

    1. LarrytheG Avatar
      LarrytheG

      can’t earn a good salary though if you’re functionally illiterate.

      These kids who get 40 or 50 in 3rd grade Reading SOL are never going to be able to get a job that requires some basic level of reading and math and will become essentially modern-day “laborers” doing the intellectual equivalent of “manual labor”.

      One metric that might be worth looking at on a per school basis is comparing the 3rd grade reading SOL with the 8th grade reading SOL to see if some of these kids were actually remediated and got back on track.

      1. WayneS Avatar
        WayneS

        Yes. Compare 2018 3rd grade with 2023 8th grade – or 3rd to 8th over any five year period.

        EDIT: Well duh! I ran across a problem when I tried to build-a-table comparing 3rd to 8th grade test scores by school. There are no schools which include both 3rd and 8th grade – which probably would have occurred to me eventually – hence the “well duh”…

        Would need to research which middle schools are fed by which elementary schools and then compare average elementary scores (3rd grade) with the 8th grade tests from the associated middle school 5-years later. It’s still not a very accurate way to measure whether any particular elementary school is helping underperforming 3rd graders catch up, though.

        And, I’ve decided not to spend the necessary time to do it.

        It’s be easy to compare average 3rd grade scores for a particular district with 5-year-later 8th grade scores, but that would not help identify specific underperforming schools.

        A complicated issue, to be sure.

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