Virginia’s Double Standards for Justice

Mugshots of nine of the George Floyd protesters and/or rioters arrested in Richmond last year.

by James A. Bacon

Twenty-year-old Manny Wilder has been sentenced to three years in prison for chasing a group of Black Lives Matter protesters in Virginia Beach with a hatchet, yelling the N-word, and driving towards the group in a pickup truck. He didn’t actually hurt anyone, but prosecutors charged him with four misdemeanors, including reckless driving, abusive language, disturbing the peace, and disorderly conduct.

“He was out there yelling that word while wielding a hatchet,” said a Virginia Beach judge, according to the Virginian-Pilot. Wilder appeared to be “full of hatred,” he added. “We can not tolerate hatred in the community.”

Fair enough. Such behavior should not be tolerated. Wilder got what he deserved.

How about the hundreds of other protesters and rioters who were arrested during the wave of unrest that swept Virginia last summer? You know, the ones who yelled abusive language, disturbed the peace, engaged in disorderly conducts, and oh, by the way sprayed graffiti, overturned cars, set buildings on fire, and assaulted police? Did they get what they deserved?

Mike Dickinson, a flamboyant but unsuccessful candidate for Richmond City Council last year, has been keeping track of prosecutions and convictions arising from the demonstrations/riots in the City of Richmond. Bottom line: 70% of the 346 cases have been dropped. A half year later, only 59 of those charged have been found guilty of misdemeanors or felonies. By his count, only seven have received jail time, but the time was suspended for four and two others are appealing.

Here’s his summary:

The cases were compiled by checking each individual case and manually extracting the data from the Virginia Courts website. For details view his report here. The data was last updated Tuesday.

Most Richmond protest prosecution cases involved violations of the Governor’s Executive Order instituting a curfew, but some charges included crimes as severe as assaulting a police officer, assault & battery, brandishing firearms, arson, and inciting riot.

Does it look like there are two standards of justice — one one for right-wing agitators and one for left-wing agitators? Yeah, it looks like there could be.

Has the established media reported any of this data? No, it hasn’t.

If Virginians want to know the full truth about what’s going on, and not just the blinkered version presented by mainstream media, citizens need to take matters into our own hands. Kudos to Dickinson for the research he’s done. And thanks for sharing with Bacon’s Rebellion.


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139 responses to “Virginia’s Double Standards for Justice”

  1. Peter Galuszka Avatar
    Peter Galuszka

    Not sure of the point here. Right wing agitators are good guys? The vast majority of BLM protests were non violent.

    1. You have no basis whatsoever to ask if I think that “right-wing agitators are good guys.” None. To the contrary, I said Wilder got what he deserved.

      As for the “vast majority” of BLM protesters being non-violent, the same can be said of the “vast majority” of right-wingers who stormed the capital. I don’t recall you ever making that argument on their behalf.

      I don’t countenance law-breaking by anyone, of any ideological persuasion. By contrast, you seem unable to condemn left-wing violence.

      1. Peter Galuszka Avatar
        Peter Galuszka

        How were US Capitol protestors non violent? They were using force to keep Congress from certifying a legal election. That is a coup in my book.

        1. and Chaz wasn’t? Explain to me in terms of #’s the amount of damage done to all personal businesses, the lives lost, how many were injured. Those usurp the rights of businessness, people, to their lives and property, the same as federal buildings and state and local buildings were targeted.

          Wow I’m glad you don’t write any more for the VP.

      1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
        Nancy_Naive

        Isn’t it NGO? It’s an acronym.

        Meet Meeks, Claude Meeks, a name not a slogan.

      2. Baconator with extra cheese Avatar
        Baconator with extra cheese

        Come on man!
        Antifa is just an idea… and/ or they are righteous freedom fighters. (Insert the expedient excuse du jour)

        1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
          Nancy_Naive

          ANTIFA would have shown up at the Jan 6 rally to counter protest except that the people who pretend to be ANTIFA were already there.

    2. It’s about the rule of law, or lack thereof. Surely you’ve heard of it.

  2. LarrytheG Avatar

    How many folks chasing around other people with a hatchet got different treatment under the law?

    Can you be AS SPECIFIC about the BLM violations as you were about the hatchet-wielding folks?

    Why are you comparing the two when they are not he same?

    1. Steve Haner Avatar
      Steve Haner

      Here we go again. Your money (violence) is evil and our money (violence) is righteous and how dare you compare!!…Larry and Peter, you share a full measure of blame for where we are now. You don’t see it. So nothing is going to change. You were right there at the U.S. Capitol. All of those idiots (and the agitator in chief) defend themselves by pointing back at the Democratic cheerleaders for the summer 2020 violence. Not without merit. Two wrongs do not make a right but two wrongs do make a helluva useful soundbite. Blood on hands all around.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar

        When I see BLM and ANtifa storm the Capitol and go after people like Pence and Pelosi – I’ll sign on to your foolishness.

        Ya’ll are the reason idiots like Trump are still accepted as normal.

        No. What BLM and Antifa was not right, any more of less than a lot of the riots and unrest that have occurred over the years including during the civil rights era but if you guys think that is equivalent to what happened at the Capitol – you really are parroting Trumpeter idiocy. Ya’ll are basically saying the far right military groups storming the Capitols is equivalent, right?

        1. TooManyTaxes Avatar
          TooManyTaxes

          And then there was Portland, Oregon.

        2. Steve Haner Avatar
          Steve Haner

          “Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye.”

        3. “…but if you guys think that is equivalent to what happened at the Capitol – you really are parroting Trumpeter idiocy.”

          False equivalence?

          How is storming Congress with people in it different from storming the White House when Trump was in it, such that the President was taken to the protective bunker?

          “George Floyd: protesters clash with Secret Service as unrest comes to the White House”

          “On Saturday evening, protesters overcame the barriers near the White House and entered the park in front of it, but were driven out by police wielding shields, batons and pepper spray. Demonstrators damaged several Secret Service vehicles and threw themselves against officers’ riot shields, the Washington Post reported.”

          “Tensions rose as the night wore on and the national guard was called out as pockets of violence erupted. Dumpsters and a car near the White House were set on fire, and the windows of some businesses were smashed.”

          “The fire department said a scaffolding at a construction site in the back of the Chamber of Commerce building caught fire but was put out.”

          https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/may/30/protest-washington-dc-george-floyd-white-house-trump

          So in two years, if Congress is controlled by Republicans, will it then be okay to storm Congress? At that point I guess it will be storming the White House that’s the problem, since it’s Biden there instead of Trump.

          I was having trouble with leftist logic, but I’m starting to see the pattern.

      2. Peter Galuszka Avatar
        Peter Galuszka

        Steve. Your comment is insane. I warned about violence repeatedly. The fBI warned especially of right wing violence. You really need to stop these idiotic putdowns.

        1. He wouldn’t have idiotic putdowns if the statement he responded to wasn’t idiotic in the first place.
          Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt.

        2. Nancy_Naive Avatar
          Nancy_Naive

          Just point out that people have weddings at Shirley Plantation. Auschwitz? Not so many.

  3. Peter Galuszka Avatar
    Peter Galuszka

    The violence at the US Capitol? Are you nuts. Five dead. They nearly killed Pence, Pelosi and many others. If you are smoking something, I want some. Txs

    1. You seem to have forgotten. We don’t have a problem with arresting and prosecuting those responsible for the January 6 violence. We fully support that.

      Glad you have joined conservatives in renouncing violence, but I would be much more convinced of your sincerity if you would also express similar condemnation for leftist violence.

      You can’t seem to muster a word, even when they attack a journalist.

      “At least some of those arrested were accused of attacking Daily News photographer Sam Costanza at the intersection of Sixth Avenue and 54th Street in the mistaken belief that he was a cop, sources said.”

      https://www.foxnews.com/us/violent-blm-protest-two-nypd-injured?cmpid=prn_newsstand

      https://www.foxnews.com/us/violent-blm-protest-two-nypd-injured?cmpid=prn_newsstand

    2. I think you’ve already been smoking it.

    3. Nancy_Naive Avatar
      Nancy_Naive

      Soon. 2024? Oh, you meant James. Maybe.

    4. Mr. Galuszka,

      Any compassion at all for Oscar Lee Stewart Jr. who was suffocated and fried to a crisp in Minneapolis as a result of the riots there? I don’t recall you ever mentioning that.

      “Medical examiner identifies body found in burned pawn shop in Minneapolis”

      “Tuesday, the Hennepin County Medical Examiner’s Office identified the man whose body was found inside of a burned south Minneapolis pawn shop as 30-year-old Oscar Lee Stewart Jr. ”

      “The building was set on fire during the protests that followed the death of George Floyd.”

      https://kstp.com/news/hennepin-county-medical-examiner-identifies-body-found-in-burned-pawn-shop-in-minneapolis/5900493/

  4. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
    Dick Hall-Sizemore

    This is likely a case of false equivalence. There is little context given for the cases involving the Richmond demonstrations/riots. It is not as if all of those arrested got off scot free. 59 were found guilty of misdemeanors or felonies. There were charges of assaulting a police officer. As we have seen in earlier posts, this could be as insignificant as bumping an officer or spitting at her. Other “serious” charges were for assault and battery. What were the details of those charges? Were injuries inflicted? How serious?

    The individual in the police case was convicted of reckless driving. That conduct involved driving a pick-up truck at high speed through a crowd of protestors. People could have been badly injured. He was convicted of failure to appear in court on the charges (he had to be extradited from Florida). How do the offenses charged in the Richmond case compare to this behavior?

    1. You’re right, Dick. Context matters. I agree with your point enough to have gone back and modified my original post to change where I said there there “are” two standards to there “could be” two standards.

    2. Lady Justice is supposed to be blind. Today, she not only isn’t blind to cause and ideology, she wears binoculars and examines some potential suspects with a microscope.

      How many BLM protesters did so without a permit? Most if not all.

      Lawful assembly restrictions and laws against obstructing traffic (pedestrian and vehicle) were ignored completely in situations where leftists were involved.

      Contrast that with Mikaela E. Beschler, who was arrested for one felony count of wearing a mask in public during the gun-rights rally in Richmond last January.

      Destruction of property? Not a problem if you lean left. In fact, it will be celebrated as art.

      RICHMOND, Va. (WWBT) – The New York Times has named the Robert E. Lee monument – in its current state – as the most influential form of American protest art since World War II.

      https://www.nbc12.com/2020/10/15/nyt-names-lee-statue-most-influential-american-protest-art/

      Is it okay for a conservative to spray-paint something we don’t like? Hardly.

      Blind Lady Justice has been replaced with a partisan woke Progressive. That’s not the rule of law, and it’s not justice.

  5. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
    Dick Hall-Sizemore

    This is likely a case of false equivalence. There is little context given for the cases involving the Richmond demonstrations/riots. It is not as if all of those arrested got off scot free. 59 were found guilty of misdemeanors or felonies. There were charges of assaulting a police officer. As we have seen in earlier posts, this could be as insignificant as bumping an officer or spitting at her. Other “serious” charges were for assault and battery. What were the details of those charges? Were injuries inflicted? How serious?

    The individual in the police case was convicted of reckless driving. That conduct involved driving a pick-up truck at high speed through a crowd of protestors. People could have been badly injured. He was convicted of failure to appear in court on the charges (he had to be extradited from Florida). How do the offenses charged in the Richmond case compare to this behavior?

    1. You’re right, Dick. Context matters. I agree with your point enough to have gone back and modified my original post to change where I said there there “are” two standards to there “could be” two standards.

    2. Lady Justice is supposed to be blind. Today, she not only isn’t blind to cause and ideology, she wears binoculars and examines some potential suspects with a microscope.

      How many BLM protesters did so without a permit? Most if not all.

      Lawful assembly restrictions and laws against obstructing traffic (pedestrian and vehicle) were ignored completely in situations where leftists were involved.

      Contrast that with Mikaela E. Beschler, who was arrested for one felony count of wearing a mask in public during the gun-rights rally in Richmond last January.

      Destruction of property? Not a problem if you lean left. In fact, it will be celebrated as art.

      RICHMOND, Va. (WWBT) – The New York Times has named the Robert E. Lee monument – in its current state – as the most influential form of American protest art since World War II.

      https://www.nbc12.com/2020/10/15/nyt-names-lee-statue-most-influential-american-protest-art/

      Is it okay for a conservative to spray-paint something we don’t like? Hardly.

      Blind Lady Justice has been replaced with a partisan woke Progressive. That’s not the rule of law, and it’s not justice.

  6. Peter Galuszka Avatar
    Peter Galuszka

    Not sure of the point here. Right wing agitators are good guys? The vast majority of BLM protests were non violent.

    1. You have no basis whatsoever to ask if I think that “right-wing agitators are good guys.” None. To the contrary, I said Wilder got what he deserved.

      As for the “vast majority” of BLM protesters being non-violent, the same can be said of the “vast majority” of right-wingers who stormed the capital. I don’t recall you ever making that argument on their behalf.

      I don’t countenance law-breaking by anyone, of any ideological persuasion. By contrast, you seem unable to condemn left-wing violence.

      1. Peter Galuszka Avatar
        Peter Galuszka

        How were US Capitol protestors non violent? They were using force to keep Congress from certifying a legal election. That is a coup in my book.

        1. and Chaz wasn’t? Explain to me in terms of #’s the amount of damage done to all personal businesses, the lives lost, how many were injured. Those usurp the rights of businessness, people, to their lives and property, the same as federal buildings and state and local buildings were targeted.

          Wow I’m glad you don’t write any more for the VP.

      1. Baconator with extra cheese Avatar
        Baconator with extra cheese

        Come on man!
        Antifa is just an idea… and/ or they are righteous freedom fighters. (Insert the expedient excuse du jour)

        1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
          Nancy_Naive

          ANTIFA would have shown up at the Jan 6 rally to counter protest except that the people who pretend to be ANTIFA were already there.

      2. Nancy_Naive Avatar
        Nancy_Naive

        Isn’t it NGO? It’s an acronym.

        Meet Meeks, Claude Meeks, a name not a slogan.

    2. It’s about the rule of law, or lack thereof. Surely you’ve heard of it.

  7. LarrytheG Avatar

    How many folks chasing around other people with a hatchet got different treatment under the law?

    Can you be AS SPECIFIC about the BLM violations as you were about the hatchet-wielding folks?

    Why are you comparing the two when they are not he same?

    1. Steve Haner Avatar
      Steve Haner

      Here we go again. Your money (violence) is evil and our money (violence) is righteous and how dare you compare!!…Larry and Peter, you share a full measure of blame for where we are now. You don’t see it. So nothing is going to change. You were right there at the U.S. Capitol. All of those idiots (and the agitator in chief) defend themselves by pointing back at the Democratic cheerleaders for the summer 2020 violence. Not without merit. Two wrongs do not make a right but two wrongs do make a helluva useful soundbite. Blood on hands all around.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar

        When I see BLM and ANtifa storm the Capitol and go after people like Pence and Pelosi – I’ll sign on to your foolishness.

        Ya’ll are the reason idiots like Trump are still accepted as normal.

        No. What BLM and Antifa was not right, any more of less than a lot of the riots and unrest that have occurred over the years including during the civil rights era but if you guys think that is equivalent to what happened at the Capitol – you really are parroting Trumpeter idiocy. Ya’ll are basically saying the far right military groups storming the Capitols is equivalent, right?

        1. TooManyTaxes Avatar
          TooManyTaxes

          And then there was Portland, Oregon.

        2. Steve Haner Avatar
          Steve Haner

          “Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye.”

        3. “…but if you guys think that is equivalent to what happened at the Capitol – you really are parroting Trumpeter idiocy.”

          False equivalence?

          How is storming Congress with people in it different from storming the White House when Trump was in it, such that the President was taken to the protective bunker?

          “George Floyd: protesters clash with Secret Service as unrest comes to the White House”

          “On Saturday evening, protesters overcame the barriers near the White House and entered the park in front of it, but were driven out by police wielding shields, batons and pepper spray. Demonstrators damaged several Secret Service vehicles and threw themselves against officers’ riot shields, the Washington Post reported.”

          “Tensions rose as the night wore on and the national guard was called out as pockets of violence erupted. Dumpsters and a car near the White House were set on fire, and the windows of some businesses were smashed.”

          “The fire department said a scaffolding at a construction site in the back of the Chamber of Commerce building caught fire but was put out.”

          https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/may/30/protest-washington-dc-george-floyd-white-house-trump

          So in two years, if Congress is controlled by Republicans, will it then be okay to storm Congress? At that point I guess it will be storming the White House that’s the problem, since it’s Biden there instead of Trump.

          I was having trouble with leftist logic, but I’m starting to see the pattern.

      2. Peter Galuszka Avatar
        Peter Galuszka

        Steve. Your comment is insane. I warned about violence repeatedly. The fBI warned especially of right wing violence. You really need to stop these idiotic putdowns.

        1. He wouldn’t have idiotic putdowns if the statement he responded to wasn’t idiotic in the first place.
          Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt.

        2. Nancy_Naive Avatar
          Nancy_Naive

          Just point out that people have weddings at Shirley Plantation. Auschwitz? Not so many.

  8. LarrytheG Avatar

    re: “storming the WH”.

    really? they traipsed through the interior looking for Trump and scaring the bejesus out of staff and others?

    that’s equivalent?

    Ya’ll have lost your freaking marbles..

    If anyone thinks that this kind of thing will become a regular thing for both sides – ya’ll really are smoking something…

    1. Well, they TRIED to traipse through the interior looking for Trump. The fact that they failed does not make them innocent of attempting to overthrow the government.

      You’re arguing that because the people who stormed the WH grounds were unsuccessful in entering the building that their actions were not an attack on our national government. Why are you arguing that?

      Is it because the life and safety of a president you did not like is less important to you than the life and safety of some congress-critters whom you do like?

      An attempt to harm/murder elected officials is behind both attacks. Personally, I support imposing the same punishment (life in prison) on the people who invaded the WH grounds and tried to enter the WH and on the people who succeeded in invaded the Capitol.

      I will also support that same punishment if someone invades, or attempts to invade, the White House to harm president Biden.

      The success or failure of an attack on our government has no bearing on whether it was really an attack. Do you think we would not have declared war on Japan in 1941 if their Pearl Harbor attack had been successfully repelled?

      1. LarrytheG Avatar

        One of them was a nationally-organized conspiracy to attack the government and specific individuals including Mike Pence. Thousands of people from all over the country came to Washington with the intent or a coordinated attack on the Capitol.

        The folks at the White House fences were none of that. It was your typical crowd of protestors with some bad actors in their ranks – not a coordinated attack with people like the Proud Boys and Oath Keepers leading the way.

        This is pretty much the “both sides” argument that Trump was peddling to normalize those who would attack Congress to disrupt certification of the vote. A POTUS-initiated insurrection. And heaven knows how it would have turned out had most of them brought gun weapons.

        You guys lack even a semblance of perspective and rationality.

        1. “One of them was a nationally-organized conspiracy to attack the government and specific individuals including Mike Pence.”

          “Nationally organized”. Indeed. The bad actors on January 6 were nationally organized and were executing a pre-planned attack which was not a result of incitement on the day of the event. Of course, the bad actors in BLM and antifa, despite your protestations to the contrary, are nationally organized and engage in pre-planned attacks/protests.

          “The folks at the White House fences were none of that. It was your typical crowd of protestors with some bad actors in their ranks…”

          So were the majority of the protesters on January 6.

          1. LarrytheG Avatar

            Sorry. Sounds like you do accept the realities… My bad.

          2. LarrytheG Avatar

            Nationally organized conspiracy by militant groups to attack government.

            Antifa? Proud Boys? Oath Keepers” BLM?

            we’re gonna find out right?

            these idiots “plan” on social media and take their cell phones to these attacks….

            When I see Antifa and BLM attack Congress like these other idiots did, I’ll reassess. Until then, denial of realities seems to be a favorite thing with some.

          3. I’m afraid I’m going to have to ask you to be more specific. Will you please enumerate the “realities” I, personally, am denying?

            What more do you want me to do besides advocate life in prison for those who attacked the Capitol and for anyone who engages in a future attack on our government and/or our society?

  9. Nancy_Naive Avatar
    Nancy_Naive

    Well, even Republicans can breathe easier. Cancun Cruz has about zero chance of ever being a Presidential candidate.

  10. Peter Galuszka Avatar
    Peter Galuszka

    The violence at the US Capitol? Are you nuts. Five dead. They nearly killed Pence, Pelosi and many others. If you are smoking something, I want some. Txs

    1. I think you’ve already been smoking it.

    2. Nancy_Naive Avatar
      Nancy_Naive

      Soon. 2024? Oh, you meant James. Maybe.

    3. You seem to have forgotten. We don’t have a problem with arresting and prosecuting those responsible for the January 6 violence. We fully support that.

      Glad you have joined conservatives in renouncing violence, but I would be much more convinced of your sincerity if you would also express similar condemnation for leftist violence.

      You can’t seem to muster a word, even when they attack a journalist.

      “At least some of those arrested were accused of attacking Daily News photographer Sam Costanza at the intersection of Sixth Avenue and 54th Street in the mistaken belief that he was a cop, sources said.”

      https://www.foxnews.com/us/violent-blm-protest-two-nypd-injured?cmpid=prn_newsstand

      https://www.foxnews.com/us/violent-blm-protest-two-nypd-injured?cmpid=prn_newsstand

    4. Mr. Galuszka,

      Any compassion at all for Oscar Lee Stewart Jr. who was suffocated and fried to a crisp in Minneapolis as a result of the riots there? I don’t recall you ever mentioning that.

      “Medical examiner identifies body found in burned pawn shop in Minneapolis”

      “Tuesday, the Hennepin County Medical Examiner’s Office identified the man whose body was found inside of a burned south Minneapolis pawn shop as 30-year-old Oscar Lee Stewart Jr. ”

      “The building was set on fire during the protests that followed the death of George Floyd.”

      https://kstp.com/news/hennepin-county-medical-examiner-identifies-body-found-in-burned-pawn-shop-in-minneapolis/5900493/

  11. Peter Galuszka Avatar
    Peter Galuszka

    Sorry. But I do not follow crime in Minneapolis in a regular basis.

    1. Sorry Mr. Galuszka, but you do follow crime in Minneapolis. Some months ago you were the very person who asked my thoughts on Kyle Rittenhouse right after that shooting. You were all over that story form Minneapolis.

      It seems that you are interested in anything and everything, no matter where or when, if it advances your narrative. Whatever runs counter to it is ignored.

      That’s not entirely your doing, however, as the news media bears some responsibility as well. They assist by promoting some stories while ignoring others.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar

        these idiots that stormed the Capitol – they had their cell phones with them.

        It’s like having a tracking device…!! Everywhere they went and all the way back home!

        I wonder how many “tracks” they got from Antifa/BLM traipsing through the WH and grounds?

        If there is a “next time”, I think the police are going to deal pretty harshly with these miscreants.

        1. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
          James Wyatt Whitehead V

          Here is one Mr. Larry. John Sullivan. A so called leader of BLM. Frontlines of the capitol riot. Sold his cell phone footage to 2 news outlets for 70 grand. You be the judge.
          https://www.johnsullivan.org/

          1. LarrytheG Avatar

            Lots of conflicting info on this guy. He was there but he does not look like he was affiliated with BLM… a strange fellow:

            https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/jan/09/facebook-posts/facebook-posts-wrongly-claim-left-wing-activist-an/

            there are other reports about him.

            This is really a distraction from the larger incident which was clearly right wing folks like the Proud Boys and Oathkeepers and they WERE very much there because of Trump – by their own words!

            Some in BLM including Antifa have been involved in violence, no question, but they do not appear to have been incited by political parties, egged on by the leaders of the Dems. In fact Antifa and BLM are largely anti-govt both parties…

            The truth is going to come out. It’s just sad in ou country today that so many prefer disinformation and lies to truth rather than accepting the truth of what happened at the Capitol.

          2. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
            James Wyatt Whitehead V

            Interesting Mr. Larry. 163 years ago the nation had a strong but conflicted reaction to John Brown. Hopefully not a harbinger of things to come.

          3. LarrytheG Avatar

            For decades, we have had right wing military groups across the country. They rejected conventional government as a concept, armed up with weaponry and many even claimed to be Sovereign Citizens.

            With the advent of social media, they have “found” each other and now are loosely affiliated and coordinate their activities into a genuine national movement that also involves tea party folk and white nationalists.

            Who knows how or where it will end up. Scary times indeed.

            I think a lot of ordinary US citizens will reject this, but they may have to become much stronger in their rejection of this.

            We cannot have every Tom, Dick and Harry with grievances against govt to become a militia type that sees storming the Capitol and State Capitols as normal and I would include ANY group that behaves that way , left or right or purple or green.

            We’ve got some real crazies out there and now days many people readily believe conspiracy theories and disinformation – and even help repeat it and promote it.

            It’s ironic in the “knowledge” age that we have some much disinformation that is readily believed and spread.

          4. “For decades, we have had right wing military groups across the country…”

            “Right wing military groups”? Are you sure about that?

            Please look up the definition of “military” before answering.

        2. “If there is a “next time”, I think the police are going to deal pretty harshly with these miscreants.”

          I certainly hope so – and I hope they leave the rubber bullets back at the station.

          I also hope law enforcement uses the same non-rubber bullets the next time “non-violent protesters” destroy or set fire to public or private property, assault innocent bystanders, attempt to incinerate cops inside a police station, or use violence to try to set up an “autonomous zone” in one of our cities.

          1. LarrytheG Avatar

            I actually do not disagree with you but what happened at the Capitol is not the same as these other incidents. It’s a horse of a different color – and it’s going to come out in the hearings…

  12. Peter Galuszka Avatar
    Peter Galuszka

    Sorry. But I do not follow crime in Minneapolis in a regular basis.

    1. Sorry Mr. Galuszka, but you do follow crime in Minneapolis. Some months ago you were the very person who asked my thoughts on Kyle Rittenhouse right after that shooting. You were all over that story form Minneapolis.

      It seems that you are interested in anything and everything, no matter where or when, if it advances your narrative. Whatever runs counter to it is ignored.

      That’s not entirely your doing, however, as the news media bears some responsibility as well. They assist by promoting some stories while ignoring others.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar

        these idiots that stormed the Capitol – they had their cell phones with them.

        It’s like having a tracking device…!! Everywhere they went and all the way back home!

        I wonder how many “tracks” they got from Antifa/BLM traipsing through the WH and grounds?

        If there is a “next time”, I think the police are going to deal pretty harshly with these miscreants.

        1. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
          James Wyatt Whitehead V

          Here is one Mr. Larry. John Sullivan. A so called leader of BLM. Frontlines of the capitol riot. Sold his cell phone footage to 2 news outlets for 70 grand. You be the judge.
          https://www.johnsullivan.org/

          1. LarrytheG Avatar

            Lots of conflicting info on this guy. He was there but he does not look like he was affiliated with BLM… a strange fellow:

            https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/jan/09/facebook-posts/facebook-posts-wrongly-claim-left-wing-activist-an/

            there are other reports about him.

            This is really a distraction from the larger incident which was clearly right wing folks like the Proud Boys and Oathkeepers and they WERE very much there because of Trump – by their own words!

            Some in BLM including Antifa have been involved in violence, no question, but they do not appear to have been incited by political parties, egged on by the leaders of the Dems. In fact Antifa and BLM are largely anti-govt both parties…

            The truth is going to come out. It’s just sad in ou country today that so many prefer disinformation and lies to truth rather than accepting the truth of what happened at the Capitol.

          2. “For decades, we have had right wing military groups across the country…”

            “Right wing military groups”? Are you sure about that?

            Please look up the definition of “military” before answering.

          3. LarrytheG Avatar

            For decades, we have had right wing military groups across the country. They rejected conventional government as a concept, armed up with weaponry and many even claimed to be Sovereign Citizens.

            With the advent of social media, they have “found” each other and now are loosely affiliated and coordinate their activities into a genuine national movement that also involves tea party folk and white nationalists.

            Who knows how or where it will end up. Scary times indeed.

            I think a lot of ordinary US citizens will reject this, but they may have to become much stronger in their rejection of this.

            We cannot have every Tom, Dick and Harry with grievances against govt to become a militia type that sees storming the Capitol and State Capitols as normal and I would include ANY group that behaves that way , left or right or purple or green.

            We’ve got some real crazies out there and now days many people readily believe conspiracy theories and disinformation – and even help repeat it and promote it.

            It’s ironic in the “knowledge” age that we have some much disinformation that is readily believed and spread.

        2. “If there is a “next time”, I think the police are going to deal pretty harshly with these miscreants.”

          I certainly hope so – and I hope they leave the rubber bullets back at the station.

          I also hope law enforcement uses the same non-rubber bullets the next time “non-violent protesters” destroy or set fire to public or private property, assault innocent bystanders, attempt to incinerate cops inside a police station, or use violence to try to set up an “autonomous zone” in one of our cities.

          1. LarrytheG Avatar

            I actually do not disagree with you but what happened at the Capitol is not the same as these other incidents. It’s a horse of a different color – and it’s going to come out in the hearings…

  13. LarrytheG Avatar

    re: “storming the WH”.

    really? they traipsed through the interior looking for Trump and scaring the bejesus out of staff and others?

    that’s equivalent?

    Ya’ll have lost your freaking marbles..

    If anyone thinks that this kind of thing will become a regular thing for both sides – ya’ll really are smoking something…

    1. Well, they TRIED to traipse through the interior looking for Trump. The fact that they failed does not make them innocent of attempting to overthrow the government.

      You’re arguing that because the people who stormed the WH grounds were unsuccessful in entering the building that their actions were not an attack on our national government. Why are you arguing that?

      Is it because the life and safety of a president you did not like is less important to you than the life and safety of some congress-critters whom you do like?

      An attempt to harm/murder elected officials is behind both attacks. Personally, I support imposing the same punishment (life in prison) on the people who invaded the WH grounds and tried to enter the WH and on the people who succeeded in invaded the Capitol.

      I will also support that same punishment if someone invades, or attempts to invade, the White House to harm president Biden.

      The success or failure of an attack on our government has no bearing on whether it was really an attack. Do you think we would not have declared war on Japan in 1941 if their Pearl Harbor attack had been successfully repelled?

      1. LarrytheG Avatar

        One of them was a nationally-organized conspiracy to attack the government and specific individuals including Mike Pence. Thousands of people from all over the country came to Washington with the intent or a coordinated attack on the Capitol.

        The folks at the White House fences were none of that. It was your typical crowd of protestors with some bad actors in their ranks – not a coordinated attack with people like the Proud Boys and Oath Keepers leading the way.

        This is pretty much the “both sides” argument that Trump was peddling to normalize those who would attack Congress to disrupt certification of the vote. A POTUS-initiated insurrection. And heaven knows how it would have turned out had most of them brought gun weapons.

        You guys lack even a semblance of perspective and rationality.

        1. “One of them was a nationally-organized conspiracy to attack the government and specific individuals including Mike Pence.”

          “Nationally organized”. Indeed. The bad actors on January 6 were nationally organized and were executing a pre-planned attack which was not a result of incitement on the day of the event. Of course, the bad actors in BLM and antifa, despite your protestations to the contrary, are nationally organized and engage in pre-planned attacks/protests.

          “The folks at the White House fences were none of that. It was your typical crowd of protestors with some bad actors in their ranks…”

          So were the majority of the protesters on January 6.

          1. LarrytheG Avatar

            Nationally organized conspiracy by militant groups to attack government.

            Antifa? Proud Boys? Oath Keepers” BLM?

            we’re gonna find out right?

            these idiots “plan” on social media and take their cell phones to these attacks….

            When I see Antifa and BLM attack Congress like these other idiots did, I’ll reassess. Until then, denial of realities seems to be a favorite thing with some.

          2. I’m afraid I’m going to have to ask you to be more specific. Will you please enumerate the “realities” I, personally, am denying?

            What more do you want me to do besides advocate life in prison for those who attacked the Capitol and for anyone who engages in a future attack on our government and/or our society?

          3. LarrytheG Avatar

            Sorry. Sounds like you do accept the realities… My bad.

  14. Nancy_Naive Avatar
    Nancy_Naive

    Well, even Republicans can breathe easier. Cancun Cruz has about zero chance of ever being a Presidential candidate.

  15. Peter Galuszka Avatar
    Peter Galuszka

    Nathan. The Rittenhouse affair was in Kenosha, Wisconsin.

    1. My mistake on location, but the overall point is valid.

    2. Nancy_Naive Avatar
      Nancy_Naive

      Peter, Peter, Peter… you have to understand that tagging the walls of a courthouse is EXACTLY the same as attempting to hang the Vice President, Speaker of the House, and ransacking the Capitol. Morally, they are identical.

      1. Steve Haner Avatar
        Steve Haner

        It is, He Who Hides His Name. Until both sides join in condemning the violence (actions and rhetoric) on both sides, equally, with no effort to win cheap political points, the downward spiral will continue. Nancy, Peter, Larry, and even Dick, you have blood on your hands, too. I’ve been a voice in the wilderness on this since 2017, since Charlottesville. I know I’m right. And I fear it will continue to be proven so….I was not at all surprised by January 6.

        Well, surprised by how badly prepared some were for what was coming…but gee, that happened in C-ville, too. There is an element on the Left that is enjoying this, thinks it will benefit them (Peter, Larry….). Sow the wind, reap the whirlwind. I’m really shocked at Peter, such an expert on the Soviet era he claims to be….

        1. “Nancy, Peter, Larry, and even Dick, you have blood on your hands, too.”

          I would not go that far. Perhaps I am overly sensitive to that idiom since as a responsible gun owner and member of several gun rights organizations I get accused by the press and other so-called-progressives of having blood on my hands every time some nut-case shoots a bunch of people, but I don’t think anybody has “blood on their hands” except those who participate in criminally violent actions and those who advocate criminally violent actions.

          1. LarrytheG Avatar

            Some days, Haner gets a hairball and you never can tell if it’s really him normally or he just caught an occasional hairball.

            He DOES engage in Ad Homs on occasion, sometimes on a back-handed way.

            “blood on the hands” is how you escalate the rhetoric usually.

            ” “blood on their hands” except those who participate in criminally violent actions and those who advocate criminally violent actions.”

            too bad Steve couldn’t say that.

          2. Matt Adams Avatar

            I concur, it’s just another hyperbole that gets tossed around by the media and infiltrates’ dialogue. It’s usual intention is to stifle and stop discussion and or debate (similar to Godwin’s Law). I don’t think Mr. Haner meant it in that manner, just returning the favor so to speak.

            I do agree the tool is not to blame, it’s the individual operating is who is to blame.

        2. Nancy_Naive Avatar
          Nancy_Naive

          Violence predicated on a truth is as wrong as violence predicated on a lie. Yep, moral equivalence.

        3. LarrytheG Avatar

          re: ” I know I’m right”. Well, you’re NOT right to personally attack people. Wrong.

          And if that is your MO in general – to blame others instead of seeing some uncomfortable realities.

          The folks who attacked the Capitol are nothing like most of the Antifa and BLM. If Antifa and BLM had been the attackers – all hell would have broken loose and martial law declared no doubt.

          The folks who support the military groups like the Proud Boys and Oath Keepers want to convince others they are no different from Antifa and BLM. Simple not the reality. When I see Antifa and BLM storm the Capitol and White House, I’ll reassess.

          1. “The folks who attacked the Capitol are nothing like most of the Antifa and BLM.”

            They are also nothing like most of the other protesters in DC that day – no matter what you say or think.

          2. BLM rioters did storm the White House, but that building is protected by Secret Service and the rioters were not successful.

            Capital Police wanted to be better prepared, but their requests were turned down. Nancy Pelosi and Mitch McConnell should answer for that.

          3. LarrytheG Avatar

            There was no storming of the WH nor it’s grounds. It’s a lie.

      2. In Seattle, rioters used rebar and quick drying cement in an attempt to seal police officers in a building that they then tried to set fire to.

        But it was “mostly peaceful “

          1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
            Nancy_Naive

            Ble trees bear strange fruit…

          2. That’s crazy.

            It’s not self defense to kill random police officers because you believe some police shootings may not have been justified.

          3. No, it was not self defense.

        1. LarrytheG Avatar

          Nathan – you’re equating some localized criminals with a nationally organized conspiracy to attack the Capitol and stop certification of the election – egged on by the POTUS.

          you guys really have a problem …………

  16. A few more details about the Manny Wilder case from the Virginia Star. There is no evidence that he drove his truck through a crowd, as I recall someone suggesting above. He was revving his engine.

    He was driving a red truck near the protests, and was caught on camera several times that day. He was reportedly revving his engine and antagonizing protestors by shouting racial slurs.

    After the incident, Wilder fled to Florida, where he was arrested by police in October in a separate incident. By then, he had already missed two court dates in Virginia – one in July for the Black Lives Matter protest incident, and another in September for failure to appear for the first court date.

    Missing court dates will not enamor a defendant to any judge, but according to press accounts, the judge expressed the strongest objections to his hateful behavior in shouting racial slurs.

    Oh, and for whatever it’s worth, Wilder did express contrition.

    1. Steve Haner Avatar
      Steve Haner

      So, not brandishing a hatchet? Brandishing a deadly weapon was a serious claim in the other report you cited….

      And Larry, I am deadly serious: Those of you who excuse this behavior from your favored thugs are equally responsible for what happened Jan . 6. Not an ad hominem attack — you might as well have been cheering it on in person. In 2017 my message was a consistent condemnation of all involved, both sides. Yours was not. I’ve never disagreed that Trump was largely responsible for Jan. 6. What Democrat are you willing to blame for the other violence? None. Of course.

    2. LarrytheG Avatar

      Assault is THREATENING harm

      Battery is actually carrying it out.

      either or both can be felonies

      ” In Virginia, the crimes of assault (physically threatening to hurt someone) and battery (causing injury) may be charged as felonies, depending on the circumstances. … Injuring someone with or without the intent to kill or cause very serious injury is also a crime in Virginia.”

      https://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/resources/criminal-defense/criminal-offense/virginia-aggravated-assault-laws#:~:text=In%20Virginia%2C%20the%20crimes%20of,felonies%2C%20depending%20on%20the%20circumstances.&text=Injuring%20someone%20with%20or%20without,also%20a%20crime%20in%20Virginia.

  17. Peter Galuszka Avatar
    Peter Galuszka

    Nathan. The Rittenhouse affair was in Kenosha, Wisconsin.

    1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
      Nancy_Naive

      Peter, Peter, Peter… you have to understand that tagging the walls of a courthouse is EXACTLY the same as attempting to hang the Vice President, Speaker of the House, and ransacking the Capitol. Morally, they are identical.

      1. Steve Haner Avatar
        Steve Haner

        It is, He Who Hides His Name. Until both sides join in condemning the violence (actions and rhetoric) on both sides, equally, with no effort to win cheap political points, the downward spiral will continue. Nancy, Peter, Larry, and even Dick, you have blood on your hands, too. I’ve been a voice in the wilderness on this since 2017, since Charlottesville. I know I’m right. And I fear it will continue to be proven so….I was not at all surprised by January 6.

        Well, surprised by how badly prepared some were for what was coming…but gee, that happened in C-ville, too. There is an element on the Left that is enjoying this, thinks it will benefit them (Peter, Larry….). Sow the wind, reap the whirlwind. I’m really shocked at Peter, such an expert on the Soviet era he claims to be….

        1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
          Nancy_Naive

          Violence predicated on a truth is as wrong as violence predicated on a lie. Yep, moral equivalence.

        2. LarrytheG Avatar

          re: ” I know I’m right”. Well, you’re NOT right to personally attack people. Wrong.

          And if that is your MO in general – to blame others instead of seeing some uncomfortable realities.

          The folks who attacked the Capitol are nothing like most of the Antifa and BLM. If Antifa and BLM had been the attackers – all hell would have broken loose and martial law declared no doubt.

          The folks who support the military groups like the Proud Boys and Oath Keepers want to convince others they are no different from Antifa and BLM. Simple not the reality. When I see Antifa and BLM storm the Capitol and White House, I’ll reassess.

          1. BLM rioters did storm the White House, but that building is protected by Secret Service and the rioters were not successful.

            Capital Police wanted to be better prepared, but their requests were turned down. Nancy Pelosi and Mitch McConnell should answer for that.

          2. LarrytheG Avatar

            There was no storming of the WH nor it’s grounds. It’s a lie.

          3. “The folks who attacked the Capitol are nothing like most of the Antifa and BLM.”

            They are also nothing like most of the other protesters in DC that day – no matter what you say or think.

        3. “Nancy, Peter, Larry, and even Dick, you have blood on your hands, too.”

          I would not go that far. Perhaps I am overly sensitive to that idiom since as a responsible gun owner and member of several gun rights organizations I get accused by the press and other so-called-progressives of having blood on my hands every time some nut-case shoots a bunch of people, but I don’t think anybody has “blood on their hands” except those who participate in criminally violent actions and those who advocate criminally violent actions.

          1. LarrytheG Avatar

            Some days, Haner gets a hairball and you never can tell if it’s really him normally or he just caught an occasional hairball.

            He DOES engage in Ad Homs on occasion, sometimes on a back-handed way.

            “blood on the hands” is how you escalate the rhetoric usually.

            ” “blood on their hands” except those who participate in criminally violent actions and those who advocate criminally violent actions.”

            too bad Steve couldn’t say that.

          2. Matt Adams Avatar

            I concur, it’s just another hyperbole that gets tossed around by the media and infiltrates’ dialogue. It’s usual intention is to stifle and stop discussion and or debate (similar to Godwin’s Law). I don’t think Mr. Haner meant it in that manner, just returning the favor so to speak.

            I do agree the tool is not to blame, it’s the individual operating is who is to blame.

      2. In Seattle, rioters used rebar and quick drying cement in an attempt to seal police officers in a building that they then tried to set fire to.

        But it was “mostly peaceful “

          1. That’s crazy.

            It’s not self defense to kill random police officers because you believe some police shootings may not have been justified.

          2. No, it was not self defense.

          3. Nancy_Naive Avatar
            Nancy_Naive

            Ble trees bear strange fruit…

        1. LarrytheG Avatar

          Nathan – you’re equating some localized criminals with a nationally organized conspiracy to attack the Capitol and stop certification of the election – egged on by the POTUS.

          you guys really have a problem …………

    2. My mistake on location, but the overall point is valid.

  18. Peter Galuszka Avatar
    Peter Galuszka

    Haner,
    Who the hell are you to go around moralizing? What is it exactly you have been warning about since Charlottesville? I don’t recall anything you have written. What the hell does the Soviet Union have to do with this? I did spend 10 years of my life dealing with the place every day. Do you really think I enjoy watching a bunch of right wing thugs invading Congress?

    You really need to stop the gratuitous put downs. It doesn’t help your case. Try to be more coherent, OK?

    1. Steve Haner Avatar
      Steve Haner

      The arrow found its mark, with you and Larry.

      “If anyone thinks that this kind of thing will become a regular thing for both sides – ya’ll really are smoking something…” Stand by Larry, you said the same thing in 2017 and here we are. Those who are ignorant of history get to see it play out again.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar

        Steve – attacking people you do sometimes and it puts you with some others here in BR that do it. Behave yourself.

        1. Matt Adams Avatar

          Pointing out your hypocrisy on the subject isn’t a personal attack.

          Your belief is that anyone questioning you is a personal attack and that none of your degrading of others is a personal attack.

          He went after your position not you as a person, get a f’n clue.

    2. Matt Adams Avatar

      “You really need to stop the gratuitous put downs. It doesn’t help your case. Try to be more coherent, OK?

      Oh the irony.

  19. Peter Galuszka Avatar
    Peter Galuszka

    Haner,
    Who the hell are you to go around moralizing? What is it exactly you have been warning about since Charlottesville? I don’t recall anything you have written. What the hell does the Soviet Union have to do with this? I did spend 10 years of my life dealing with the place every day. Do you really think I enjoy watching a bunch of right wing thugs invading Congress?

    You really need to stop the gratuitous put downs. It doesn’t help your case. Try to be more coherent, OK?

    1. Steve Haner Avatar
      Steve Haner

      The arrow found its mark, with you and Larry.

      “If anyone thinks that this kind of thing will become a regular thing for both sides – ya’ll really are smoking something…” Stand by Larry, you said the same thing in 2017 and here we are. Those who are ignorant of history get to see it play out again.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar

        Steve – attacking people you do sometimes and it puts you with some others here in BR that do it. Behave yourself.

        1. Matt Adams Avatar

          Pointing out your hypocrisy on the subject isn’t a personal attack.

          Your belief is that anyone questioning you is a personal attack and that none of your degrading of others is a personal attack.

          He went after your position not you as a person, get a f’n clue.

    2. Matt Adams Avatar

      “You really need to stop the gratuitous put downs. It doesn’t help your case. Try to be more coherent, OK?

      Oh the irony.

  20. A few more details about the Manny Wilder case from the Virginia Star. There is no evidence that he drove his truck through a crowd, as I recall someone suggesting above. He was revving his engine.

    He was driving a red truck near the protests, and was caught on camera several times that day. He was reportedly revving his engine and antagonizing protestors by shouting racial slurs.

    After the incident, Wilder fled to Florida, where he was arrested by police in October in a separate incident. By then, he had already missed two court dates in Virginia – one in July for the Black Lives Matter protest incident, and another in September for failure to appear for the first court date.

    Missing court dates will not enamor a defendant to any judge, but according to press accounts, the judge expressed the strongest objections to his hateful behavior in shouting racial slurs.

    Oh, and for whatever it’s worth, Wilder did express contrition.

    1. Steve Haner Avatar
      Steve Haner

      So, not brandishing a hatchet? Brandishing a deadly weapon was a serious claim in the other report you cited….

      And Larry, I am deadly serious: Those of you who excuse this behavior from your favored thugs are equally responsible for what happened Jan . 6. Not an ad hominem attack — you might as well have been cheering it on in person. In 2017 my message was a consistent condemnation of all involved, both sides. Yours was not. I’ve never disagreed that Trump was largely responsible for Jan. 6. What Democrat are you willing to blame for the other violence? None. Of course.

    2. LarrytheG Avatar

      Assault is THREATENING harm

      Battery is actually carrying it out.

      either or both can be felonies

      ” In Virginia, the crimes of assault (physically threatening to hurt someone) and battery (causing injury) may be charged as felonies, depending on the circumstances. … Injuring someone with or without the intent to kill or cause very serious injury is also a crime in Virginia.”

      https://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/resources/criminal-defense/criminal-offense/virginia-aggravated-assault-laws#:~:text=In%20Virginia%2C%20the%20crimes%20of,felonies%2C%20depending%20on%20the%20circumstances.&text=Injuring%20someone%20with%20or%20without,also%20a%20crime%20in%20Virginia.

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