Bacon's Rebellion

Democracy Thrives in Sunlight

Virginians Ship Another 22 Ambulances to Ukraine

—

by

James A. Bacon
in

Departing from Harrisonburg, a convoy of 22 ambulances arrived at the Port of Baltimore this morning and boarded a cargo ship bound for Ukraine. In total now, non-profit Ukraine Focus, founded by former USAID official Brock Bierman, has shipped 112 of the life-saving vehicles to Ukrainian medics on the frontlines of Russia’s aggression.

Ukraine Focus estimates that each ambulance will save the lives of up to 200 soldiers per month. (Due to Russian targeting and theft of ambulances on the battlefield, however, the average lifespan of an ambulance in Ukraine these days is only 30 to 60 days.)

Find out more about Ukraine Focus here.

— JAB

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109 responses to “Virginians Ship Another 22 Ambulances to Ukraine”

  1. James A. Bacon Avatar
    James A. Bacon

    The Russian targeting of ambulances is (or should be) a war crime. I’ve read how the Russkies do a “double tap” — blast a civilian site, wait for the first responders to show up, and then blast them. Horrifying.

    It’s also discouraging that the Ukrainians are losing ambulances to theft — a reminder that the country is still a kleptocracy. To be sure, it’s a democracy that aspires to Western-style governance, but it’s still a kleptocracy.

    1. Matt Adams Avatar
      Matt Adams

      “The Russian targeting of ambulances is (or should be) a war crime”

      There is no should, it is a war crime to knowingly target a clearly badge medical person or vehicle under the Geneva Convention.

      The Russian Empire is a signatory of that document in 1867 and again in 1960.

      The only problem will be is if the Russian Federation states Ukrainians are misusing those ambulances to move troops and munitions. That and the UN would have to have teeth to punish Russia, they haven’t yet and they won’t.

      Furthermore, a double tap is one to the head and one to the heart when moving across the objective. What you’re describing is an ambush and standard practice to how snipers operate. Why kill one person when you can wound them and take additional troops out of the fight.

      “It’s also discouraging that the Ukrainians are losing ambulances to theft — a reminder that the country is still a kleptocracy. To be sure, it’s a democracy that aspires to Western-style governance, but it’s still a kleptocracy”

      Despite all the talk otherwise, Ukrainian is and has been as corrupt as Russia since the dissolution of the USSR.

      1. Stephen Haner Avatar
        Stephen Haner

        Zelensky’s television show, on Netflix, is a send up on that very theme, the perceived corruption and control by oligarchs of the nation, with him trying to clean it up.

        1. Matt Adams Avatar
          Matt Adams

          President Zelensky is an actor, he’s not the white knight he’s being portrayed to be.

          He’s just as corrupt as every person he campaigned to be against..

          https://www.occrp.org/en/the-pandora-papers/pandora-papers-reveal-offshore-holdings-of-ukrainian-president-and-his-inner-circle

          1. DJRippert Avatar
            DJRippert

            Having been to and worked in Ukraine, I think you are right – Zelensky may (or may not) be corrupt himself but he did nothing to remedy endemic Ukrainian corruption during his time before the latest Russian invasion.

          2. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            He’s a puppet, who is now emboldened by the backing of the United States War Machine. If he uses our weapons to invade Russia, it will no longer be a proxy war, it will be War.

          3. James McCarthy Avatar
            James McCarthy

            As I recall news reports, Zelenskyy was carefully taking steps to root out a number of entrenched key officials held over from prior administrations. The invasion interrupted that longer term prospect.

          4. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            “As I recall news reports, Zelenskyy was carefully taking steps to root out a number of entrenched key officials held over from prior administrations. The invasion interrupted that longer term prospect.”

            That’s a lovely bedtime story, it’s fiction though. The notion that he’s not corrupt is utter hogwash. The pandora papers prove that to be opposite.

            It’s always humorous to see Neo-liberals beating the drums of war, as soon as the first body drops they’ll insist they were against it from the start.

          5. WayneS Avatar
            WayneS

            “from the start”

          6. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            Roger that, thanks for the correction.

          7. James McCarthy Avatar
            James McCarthy

            It’s even more interesting to read characterizations of commentary without knowledge. First of all, I did not state or allege Zelenskyy was not corrupt only that reports were of efforts to oust entrenched office holders held over from previous administrations. Nor did i beat a drum of war. Your fiction is yours, a product of mind reading and between the lines for material not there.

          8. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            Plenty of your statements have implied otherwise and there weren’t any reports he was going to do anything. He made campaign speeches, but that was it and anyone who bothered to do a modicum of research knows it was replacing one level of corruption for the next.

            His entire persona is based upon the tv show that brought him front and center, where he played a history teacher angered at corruption and became the president. The irony in that is it aired on a station owned by his pal an oligarch, an oligarch who he than stabbed in the back.

            https://mronline.org/2022/07/22/how-corrupt-is-ukrainian-president-volodymyr-zelensky/

            https://www.wilsoncenter.org/blog-post/president-zelenskyy-losing-trust-he-losing-power

            “Nor did i beat a drum of war. Your fiction is yours, a product of mind reading and between the lines for material not there.”

            No you’re very much beating the war drums, calling anyone who speaks otherwise against support activities to Ukraine is a Putin apologist. Oh it’s there, you just think you’re too clever to be spotted, you’re not.

          9. DJRippert Avatar
            DJRippert

            He needed to use a shovel rather than a broom. The only European country possibly more corrupt than Ukraine is Russia.

          10. James McCarthy Avatar
            James McCarthy

            IDK. Hungary quickly comes to mind. Nearby but not European are several of the “stans” from the former USSR and Turkey. Attempting to use a shovel in Ukraine likely would end in more corruption.

          11. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2022/index/dom

    2. M. Purdy Avatar
      M. Purdy

      Three questions: the new R House and our R Gov. are skeptical (too mild a term?) of US involvement in Ukraine. Does this article indicate that BR disagrees? Second, do you intend to cover the snowballing Fox News v. Dominion story? Is Bert Ellis getting better? I hope so. Thanks in advance, and Slava Ukrainii!

      1. DJRippert Avatar
        DJRippert

        How does the Fox News vs Dominion story relate to Virginia?

        1. Stephen Haner Avatar
          Stephen Haner

          The Dominion machines are indeed in use in VA localities. There is one connection.

        2. M. Purdy Avatar
          M. Purdy

          I’m pretty sure this blog has covered media stories and other stories not directly related to VA.

          1. DJRippert Avatar
            DJRippert

            Ask Mr. Bacon. I’ve been reading and (previously) writing for this blog over 15 years. JAB has always been consistent that there must be a connection to Virginia for a story to appear.

          2. M. Purdy Avatar
            M. Purdy

            If you do a search of the archives, there are a number of articles that aren’t VA related, but do pertain to the media in general: https://www.baconsrebellion.com/coporate-media-is-hostile-to-you-and-your-religious-beliefs/

          3. DJRippert Avatar
            DJRippert

            Fair point. JAB will have to answer. I’d like to see a broader purview for BR but Jim has been at least pretty consistent in opposing that.

          4. James McCarthy Avatar
            James McCarthy

            JAB may have been consistent in supporting that policy but not every article published in BR is vetted or reviewed by its editors. Some authors are privileged to publish independently.

      2. James A. Bacon Avatar
        James A. Bacon

        Personally, I side with Ukraine. Its people have demonstrated that they are willing to fight and die in order to maintain their independence, and they aspire to join the West. I’m happy to see Virginians contribute to their cause. At the same time, I don’t think the U.S. should write a blank check. Corruption is endemic, funds and materials are siphoned off, and the U.S. should demand accountability for its aid.

        I thought it remarkable that an organization dedicated to helping Ukraine would include the fact that the life span of ambulances is so short-lived, in part because of theft. That’s a sign that the problem must be really bad. What other types of aid are getting stolen? How much of our contributions are being wasted?

        1. Stephen Haner Avatar
          Stephen Haner

          Prediction: Trump will ride a message of opposition to our support of Ukraine to the nomination next year. And it might work through to the general. Don’t think this hasn’t occurred to Putin. Ukraine will have killed and maimed a whole lot of young Russian cannon fodder by then, though, so no rush. It has already been Pyrrhic for them.

          1. James McCarthy Avatar
            James McCarthy

            Not unthinkable along with promising retribution and ascribing Biden as the Nordstrom bomber.

          2. DJRippert Avatar
            DJRippert

            Go back to March 8, 2015 and tell me who was predicted to be the Republican nominee for president in 2016.

            Things change.

          3. James McCarthy Avatar
            James McCarthy

            Argue with Haner. His view is not unthinkable as I noted.

          4. Lefty665 Avatar
            Lefty665

            “ascribing Biden as the Nordstrom bomber.”

            OMG he’s blowing up retail stores too?

            You’re breaking new Jim McCarthy silly walks territory. It’s nice to see artistry grow.

            The Nordstream bombing was an act of terror and an act of war against Germany and Russia, a war crime, clearly perpetrated by Biden et al as he bragged he would do. That makes us a terrorist nation and our leaders war criminals.

            https://seymourhersh.substack.com/p/how-america-took-out-the-nord-stream

          5. DJRippert Avatar
            DJRippert

            During the so-called Maiden Revolution of 2014 the duly and legally elected president of Ukraine was deposed after he announced that he was going to tighten ties with Russia rather than Europe.

            Did the Obama / Biden Administration have any role in that?

          6. James McCarthy Avatar
            James McCarthy

            Don’t know. Can you tell us? How’s it connected to the Nordstream event? Or, in the Maiden aftermath, the role of Trump and Manafort.

          7. DJRippert Avatar
            DJRippert

            It’s not connected to the Nordsteam event.

            By the time Trump and Manafort came to power both the Maiden Revolution and the first Russian invasion of Ukraine were long over.

          8. James McCarthy Avatar
            James McCarthy

            Sure and no residuals of their work remained. Manafort was on the Ukraine payroll by 2005. Crimea was invaded in 2014 at the time of the Maidan Revolution. Not certain a nine year hiatus is “long over.”

          9. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            The US certainly had a hand in it, the IC saw a new money maker.

            https://www.cato.org/commentary/washington-helped-trigger-ukraine-war

          10. Lefty665 Avatar
            Lefty665

            Victoria Nuland engineered it as Asst Sec State in the Obama administration. She then bragged that she spent $5B to overthrow the elected Ukrainian government.

            So, yes the Obama administration was deeply involved in that.

            Nuland is back as Asst Sec State in the Biden administration and publicly the face of the neocon advocacy for war in Ukraine.

            So yes, the Biden administration has a role in the current debacle too.

          11. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            He’s just parroting the daily talking points he’s given, that isn’t an original thought out of his keyboard.

            As per usual below, he’s trying to pull Trump out and blame him, somehow forgetting the current POTUS’s son winning a no-show job in the same country.

          12. James McCarthy Avatar
            James McCarthy

            Be advised, despite your own hardened views, I never accept as gospel any talking points. Nor do I start from a rigid ideological perspective. The Trump/Manafort involvement in Ukraine has never been clearly explained and remains under suspicion. Hunter’s job in Ukraine smells also.

          13. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            “James McCarthy 43 minutes ago
            Be advised, despite your own hardened views, I never accept as gospel any talking points. Nor do I start from a rigid ideological perspective. The Trump/Manafort involvement in Ukraine has never been clearly explained and remains under suspicion. Hunter’s job in Ukraine smells also.”

            Accusations without evidence, you have no idea my “views”, unless you want to rethink your own mind reading quip.

            Funny, you don’t seem to mention the latter, but are obsessed with the former.

            Oh and the former isn’t even close to what you’re insinuating, but that would require you to read before you write.

          14. James McCarthy Avatar
            James McCarthy

            Yeah, I read Hersh’s unfounded conspiracy theory. Today’s NYT carries an article offering that the Nordstream sabotage was conducted by a pro-Ukraine, anti-Putin organization. That makes more sense than the silly walk by Hersh and any reader’s conclusion that the act was “clearly perpetrated” by Biden. Skepticism is one thing but political paranoia is dangerous. TY for the Nordstream correction.

          15. DJRippert Avatar
            DJRippert

            That would have been quite a feat for a partisan group. Timed bombs planted on an underwater pipeline that destroyed 50m of that pipeline.

          16. James McCarthy Avatar
            James McCarthy

            Bombers in the US have a long history of secretive and effective impact. Partisan groups are hardly those depicted in films about WWII. US targets abroad – USS Cole – have reflected some sophistication.

          17. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            The USS Cole bombing wasn’t sophisticated, it was a VBIED.

          18. Lefty665 Avatar
            Lefty665

            The Cole and sophisticated attack in the same sentence is bizarre. It was a rubber boat packed with explosives that pulled alongside while the Cole was docked. Hardly sophisticated.

          19. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            Ha, I didn’t see your comment and I responded in-kind.

            23 years to remember is hard for him apparently. It’s easier to just spout off and not even both to research.

            I have never been under the impression it’s taken any sophistications to clack off an S-Vest.

          20. Lefty665 Avatar
            Lefty665

            Hersh has an impeccable history of breaking big stories starting with a Pulitzer Prize for My Lai in Viet Nam through Abu Ghraib in Iraq and several others. He has never been found materially wrong.

            Blowing his reporting off as “unfounded conspiracy theory” is most charitably profoundly ignorant.

          21. James McCarthy Avatar
            James McCarthy

            No denying his reputation. It does not increase the reliability or credibility of his present argument. If it is true, we will learn about it soon enough.

          22. Lefty665 Avatar
            Lefty665

            Past reliability being no indicator of current reliability to you. Like I said before “most charitably profoundly ignorant”. But the basis for a profound Jim McCarthy silly walk award. Congrats for doing it again.

    3. James McCarthy Avatar
      James McCarthy

      Kleptocracy is usually applied to corrupt government officials. Tough definition to cover the theft of ambulances as characteristic of the nation.

      1. DJRippert Avatar
        DJRippert

        If the democratically elected leaders of a country are corrupt and the people who elect them don’t care – why is it a “tough definition” to call the country corrupt?

        1. James McCarthy Avatar
          James McCarthy

          Perhaps “stretch” would have been a better term. Characterizing a nation’s voters as corrupt versus its leadership is over broad. The present Ukraine leadership has undertaken efforts to diminish the corruption it inherited and which was enabled by Paul Manafort.

          1. DJRippert Avatar
            DJRippert

            Lol. Ukriane was horribly corrupt long before Paul Manafort ever came upon the scene. For example, when Joe Biden was appointed Obama’s emissary to Ukraine while his crack smoking son was on the board of a major energy company despite Hunter not speaking Ukrainian or having any experience in energy?

    4. DJRippert Avatar
      DJRippert

      If Congress or the US mainstream media can ever force themselves to be honest, there will be an accounting of where the money and materiel we sent to Ukraine actually went. I predict that the answer will be horrifying. Ukraine is absolutely a kleptocracy. Stolen ambulances are bad but what about stolen HIMARS? God only knows where those might be sold and end up.

  2. Stephen Haner Avatar
    Stephen Haner

    Ukraine is not and now probably never will be a NATO ally. But the lesson is that Poland and other NATO allies will be threatened next, and next time the U.S. will actually have to engage in real combat, losing young American lives. The response of arming the Ukrainians to kill and maim as much of the Russian Army as possible, destroy a bunch of equipment, target the officer corps, has been pretty cold hearted but I think effective. If we are indeed training some of their pilots on F-16s, you can see the next step. Too bad they didn’t have a squadron of A-10s for when that armored column was strung out on that highway. What the USAF did to Saddam Hussein’s forces stuck in the same predicament 20+ years ago was classic and left him prostrate when we later invaded.

  3. Stephen Haner Avatar
    Stephen Haner

    Ukraine is not and now probably never will be a NATO ally. But the lesson is that Poland and other NATO allies will be threatened next, and next time the U.S. will actually have to engage in real combat, losing young American lives. The response of arming the Ukrainians to kill and maim as much of the Russian Army as possible, destroy a bunch of equipment, target the officer corps, has been pretty cold hearted but I think effective. If we are indeed training some of their pilots on F-16s, you can see the next step. Too bad they didn’t have a squadron of A-10s for when that armored column was strung out on that highway last year. What the USAF did to Saddam Hussein’s forces stuck in the same predicament 30+ years ago was classic and left him prostrate when we later invaded. But even without the A-10s, the Ukrainians dealt Putin a mighty defeat there. As long as they are willing to kill Russians, and Russians give them cause to, we need to send them the means.

    1. Matt Adams Avatar
      Matt Adams

      “The response of arming the Ukrainians to kill and main as much of the Russian Army as possible, destroy a bunch of equipment, target the officer corps, has been pretty cold hearted but I think effective”

      This is an act of war and there will be additional US troops in Ukraine before the next election (yes, we already have troops there). The problem with all this is, it should not be the US. Ukraine is not a member of NATO and should frankly never be, as Russia will always use that as an excuse for escalation of force. The other members of NATO who have been lambasted by several President’s now for not adhering to their 2% obligation are those who should be stepping up.

      Saddam’s removal lead to a power vacuum and an emboldened Iran. He was in fact a necessary evil and the Iraq invasion was a completely misguided effort (CIA lead).

      1. Stephen Haner Avatar
        Stephen Haner

        You and Lefty are making my point. This will be Trump’s hobby horse as he rides to another nomination win and general election debacle, losing seats in both House and Senate. First presidential campaign I actually remember, the candidate promising peace was very attractive to me! (Ahem, it was lying LBJ…)

        I don’t disagree that taking out Saddam, and failing to install a replacement (think the good ol’ days of the Dulles brothers) was a tactical error. And lacking that plan for a stable replacement, we shouldn’t have invaded. Said so at the time, but of course I also had a son in uniform coloring my impression.

        1. Matt Adams Avatar
          Matt Adams

          Trump is irrelevant to me, he’s going to do, what he likes and there isn’t anything I can do against it. However, as someone who has worn the uniform, I get a bit irritated when the US squanders blood and treasure for a conflict that we shouldn’t concern ourselves with.

          We already had advisors in Vietnam when JFK was POTUS, just like the CIA surreptitiously aided the exiles in Cuba. Had he gone against his campaign promise and offered legitimate support, Castro may have been deposed.

          We are currently on a path to repeat Vietnam in Ukraine. We have advisors on the ground, we have been training commandos since 2014. The only difference is there is no secret winnable war in Ukraine.

          We are not and cannot be the worlds Policemen and an interventionalist mindset will sink our Nation with additional crushing debt. The NEOCON’s will be the death of our Nation.

          The problem with installing puppets is they don’t always work out, our IC has a long history of installing worse then they disposed and we have to go back and clean up.

  4. how_it_works Avatar
    how_it_works

    Not a single identifiable ambulance in that photo is a make/model that was ever sold in the USA.

    1. Lefty665 Avatar
      Lefty665

      Interesting, the license tags on the first ambulances are not domestic US plates either.

      If the photo is heading out of Harrisonburg for Baltimore that’s got to be 33 east over the mountain, but it’s not a view that I recognize. Doesn’t mean it’s not there, it is just not familiar from my routine travel on that road.

    2. James McCarthy Avatar
      James McCarthy

      Good eyes. The one visible plate looks non-US.

    3. Lefty665 Avatar
      Lefty665

      Interesting, the license tags on the first ambulances are not domestic US plates either.

      If the photo is heading out of Harrisonburg for Baltimore that’s got to be 33 east over the mountain, although I don’t know why you’d choose that over I81. It’s not a view that I recognize. Doesn’t mean it’s not there, it is just not familiar from my routine travel on that road.

      1. Matt Adams Avatar
        Matt Adams

        A google lens says that is the convoy in already in Europe (Slovakia) heading to Kyiv.

        https://www.rotary.org/en/rotary-members-ukraine-friends-deliver-ambulances-ukrainian-officials

        1. Lefty665 Avatar
          Lefty665

          Thank you, that makes more sense. Also, the hiker signage did not look like our Park Service issue.

      2. how_it_works Avatar
        how_it_works

        The photo was taken in Europe. Look at the signage to the left warning of a pedestrian crossing–signage like that along with the white/black poles next to it are found in Europe. Also, the pavement markings are wrong by USA standards.. This is clearly a two-way road and in the USA, those get a yellow center line, not a white line as seen here.

  5. James Wyatt Whitehead Avatar
    James Wyatt Whitehead

    I went back over one of my all time favorite books in December. Stephen Ambrose’s Rise to Globalism. Great read on American foreign policy from WW2 until he died some time ago. If Ambrose were still here my bet is that he would interpret the conflict in Ukraine as a prelude to the next big thing. Along the lines of the Spanish Civil War or Bein Dein Phu. I wonder if those ambulances have American sirens or the wimpy European sirens?

    1. M. Purdy Avatar
      M. Purdy

      **Dien Bien Phu, small typo.

  6. DJRippert Avatar
    DJRippert

    The misleading narrative from the left is that Republicans oppose support for Ukraine while Democrats endorse that support. Bunk. If Biden really supports Ukraine, where are the F-16s? Nowhere to be seen. Biden’s apologists insist that his level of support is apparently governed by whispers from God’s lips to Biden’s ear. A divinely inspired, perfect level of support. Just enough for Ukraine to win but not so much that a world war will erupt. While I don’t doubt that Biden hears voices, I suspect Susan Rice or hallucinations of “Corn Pop” more than God.

    My prediction is that Ukraine will lose. While I hate to believe that, the Russians have a long history of being willing to take unimaginable casualties in order to achieve their European objectives. In a war of attrition the bigger army wins.

    Could the US and NATO provide enough advanced arms to Ukraine so that the Ukrainians could defeat Russia? Yes, at least probably so. But it seems to me that an absolute minimum for victory would include combat aircraft. So far, Biden has completely opposed that. By the time the writing is on the wall, will it be too late?

    Bakhmut is about to fall to the Russians. That town of 71,000 people (pre-war) and 4,000 people today has nearly no strategic significance. Yet the Russians are willing to fight and die at scale for it. America needs to get used to that mentality. I predict it will be seen over and over again.

    What will the left say if Ukraine loses despite Biden’s $100+B of support?

    I know what I’ll say – Biden pursued a milquetoast course of providing enough support to prolong the war without enough support to win the war. If that happens, the Republicans who opposed the current level of support will look sadly precient.

    1. James McCarthy Avatar
      James McCarthy

      Plausible observations. However, the messaging by a number of key GOP folk is that Ukraine ought not be given a “blank check” of assistance. Difficult not to hear that as a message of non-support as opposed to a prediction of “sadly prescient.” The CinC is responsible to assess and determine the issue of supplying the F-16s in the context of diplomacy and Putin threats. It’s NATO Allie’s who would receive the brunt of a Russian onslaught. They too have reservations about the extent of US assistance.

      1. Stephen Haner Avatar
        Stephen Haner

        Well, we didn’t give the UK or Stalin’s Russia any “blank check” in the 1940s, either. So not sure what that means. Sounds like it means something….

        If I thought it was vital to US interests for Putin to be driven totally out of Ukraine in defeat, then I’d advocate sending in our own forces. I don’t advocate that at this time. But it greatly advances US and NATO interests for him to bleed out. I said it was a cold-hearted strategy. Yes, Russia and China used it on us and we fell for it in Vietnam.

        1. M. Purdy Avatar
          M. Purdy

          Pretty sure we gave UK a blank check.

        2. DJRippert Avatar
          DJRippert

          And the Russians supplied the North Vietnamese with combat aircraft as I recall and we didn’t nuke them over it.

      2. DJRippert Avatar
        DJRippert

        Biden isn’t providing a “blank check” either. Witness the F-16s. No mainstream Republican is proposing an end to support. So, this is a matter of degree, not a question of support vs non-support.

        1. M. Purdy Avatar
          M. Purdy

          What do you consider “mainstream”? Is Tucker Carlson mainstream?

          1. DJRippert Avatar
            DJRippert

            Politicians. I don’t care what Tucker Carlson thinks any more than I care what Rachael Maddow thought.

          2. M. Purdy Avatar
            M. Purdy

            Do you care what Matt Gaetz says? What about Kevin McCarthy? Trump?

          3. DJRippert Avatar
            DJRippert

            Gaetz, no. McCarthy, yes. Trump, a former politician, so “no”.

          4. M. Purdy Avatar
            M. Purdy

            Got it. Well, McCarthy has been a bit cagey; he’s trying to push the ‘no blank checks’ line, but he’s clearly doing that for political reasons. Not sure how he feels personally or if he would rally support if UKR funding became an issue.

          5. DJRippert Avatar
            DJRippert

            Biden is pushing a “no blank checks” policy too … by refusing to send F-16s and only belatedly sending Abrams tanks. Why no criticism of him?

          6. Lefty665 Avatar
            Lefty665

            You guys are forgetting a couple of things. Opposition to Viet Nam started small in Congress, but it grew as more began to see the light at the end of the tunnel was an oncoming train. It is not so different today.

            F-16s are 50 year old designs, just like the Ukrainian SU-27s and Mig-29s the Russians have been destroying. F-16s won’t fare much better against modern air defenses.

            Ukrainian roads and bridges are commonly load rated at 40-45 tons. Abrams and Leopard 2 tanks are around 60 tons. Abrams are maintenance intensive, 3hrs for each 1 hr operations, big heat signature turbine targets and need special fuel. What could go wrong?

            Some are speculating that the coordinated NYT, Wash Post and German press articles yesterday suggesting Ukrainians were behind the Nord Stream bombing is the start of a US campaign to dump Ukraine and exit the war. Pay attention as the propaganda begins to reverse spin. Think Orwell.

          7. James McCarthy Avatar
            James McCarthy

            NYT described the saboteurs as anti-Putin, pro-Ukrainian partisans. Ukraine has denied involvement in the event. Exit signal? Not yet.

          8. Lefty665 Avatar
            Lefty665

            Stay tuned, the rumblings have started. Lots of behind the scenes unhappiness. We’ll see how it ripens.

            Read closer in both Wash Post and NYT. The Ukrainian state connections are speculated,

          9. M. Purdy Avatar
            M. Purdy

            Opposition in Vietnam was chiefly due to our servicemen being killed over there. That is not something happening in UKR, and we also have a massive treaty obligation at stake that wasn’t present during Vietnam. Very different situation.

          10. Lefty665 Avatar
            Lefty665

            What massive treaty obligation? Ukraine is not a NATO member. We have no, none, nada, zip strategic interest in Ukraine. Russia does, it is on their doorstep. This war is our adolescent neocon wet dream.

          11. M. Purdy Avatar
            M. Purdy

            NATO has agreed to support UKR in its own defense; we are the leading member of NATO; there are nine (correction from 7, as Finland has been invited and Norway is a member….my masters in international relations may be revoked) NATO member states bordering Russia and UKR who care a whole lot about the outcome of this war and who are rightfully scared as hell; this is a direct quote from the NATO website: “The Russian Federation is the most significant and direct threat to Allies’ security and to peace and stability in the Euro-Atlantic area.” If you don’t think this is about our treaty obligations and defense of democracy, you’re out to lunch.

          12. Lefty665 Avatar
            Lefty665

            This is about our moron neocons lust to destroy Russia. To do that they are risking nuclear war, starting in Europe. NATO members are right to be terrified. We have stripped them of much of their military capabilities to supply the Ukrainian meat grinder and we do not have the industrial base, either here or in Europe to quickly resupply.

            I repeat, we have no treaty obligations to Ukraine.

            Defend democracy? Don’t make me laugh. We overthrew the democratically elected government of Ukraine in 2014, and bragged about it. Zelensky has outlawed political parties, nationalized the media, and attacked christian churches. That’s on top of being the most corrupt gang of crooks in Europe.

            If supporting Ukraine is defending democracy then you and I have very different understandings of democracy.

          13. M. Purdy Avatar
            M. Purdy

            Spoken like someone who might need to ween off the Fox News, OAN, and Newsmax….

          14. Lefty665 Avatar
            Lefty665

            Wrong again. I don’t take off of any of those sources, but I do stay informed.

            I will remind you of my dear old Dad’s observation that “The worst mistake people make is believing their own propaganda”.

            It was pretty good advice.

          15. M. Purdy Avatar
            M. Purdy

            It’s great advice, but I have no idea where the “information” you have comes from. NATO membership is for the most part quite democratic. They are directly threatened by the Russian invasion of Ukraine, which is an emerging though very flawed democracy. Your banging on the table about our lack of treaty obligations to UKR (which is arguable, given the Budapest Memorandum) doesn’t have anything to do with what NATO obligations…and they’ve decided that supporting UKR vs. Russia is of paramount importance to their security. Hence, we have a treaty obligation. So whatever you’re spouting is fantasy.

          16. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            Once LBJ was POTUS it took off like gangbusters.

            Started with JFK and SF advisors around 500 61′ to 16k 63′.

            “Pay attention as the propaganda begins to reverse spin. Think Orwell.”

            So very, very true. However, if POTUS Biden’s support keep eroding, expect a declaration of war.

          17. Lefty665 Avatar
            Lefty665

            Yeah, except we haven’t declared war since 1942 so I’m not holding my breath on that.

          18. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            You’re correct. We’ll just do another amendment to the AUMF from 2001.

            Funny enough, when I hear people calling for treason charges, they fail to realize you must be a declared war to charge that.

          19. M. Purdy Avatar
            M. Purdy

            Abrams was for logistical reasons. It’s the most sophisticated main battle tank on the planet, and it takes time, $$ and effort, not to mention a unique logistics train, to get up and running. We offered M2s, which are easier to operate and maintain and cheaper, with the hopes that our NATO allies would provide the MBT. It didn’t quite work out like that. As for F16s, they are coming and face many unique challenges like M1s; but remember, F16s aren’t confined to UKR airspace; they can fly sorties into Russia. That’s not a risk to take lightly. This is one of the reasons why we’ve been reluctant to provide ATCAMs.

          20. James McCarthy Avatar
            James McCarthy

            Ahh, Trump is hardly “former.”

          21. DJRippert Avatar
            DJRippert

            He presently holds no elected office. Like Bill Clinton, he is a former politician

          22. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            “former”? 😉

        2. James McCarthy Avatar
          James McCarthy

          Why then complaints from GOP folk about limiting Ukraine assistance? Does limit include or not include F-16s? The GOP messaging is cacophonous.

          1. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            The GOP is all over the map AND volatile. Who knows what positions they’ll take next?

            They diss Biden but can anyone guess what Trump would be doing?

          2. DJRippert Avatar
            DJRippert

            Both sides want limits. It’s a year into the war and Biden won’t send F-16s or backfill NATO allies with F-16s so that those allies can send their MiGs. DeSantis says, “no blank check”.

            Not sure I see much of a difference.

          3. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            I don’t see what the GOP is proposing/advocating for.

            They’re being pretty coy IMO.

    2. M. Purdy Avatar
      M. Purdy

      We’re trying not to start WW3; it’s a delicate balance, but the US military and Biden are committed to helping UKR win.

      1. DJRippert Avatar
        DJRippert

        I don’t see how Ukraine wins without modern air power. The Russians supplied combat aircraft to the North Vietnamese and we didn’t start WWIII. Why is this different?

        What was it that Obama said? “Don’t underestimate Joe’s ability to f*** things up.”

        The belief that the Biden Administration has the perfect level of military support for Ukraine going is very far fetched. Claiming that Republicans are somehow in the pocket of the Kremlin (as some on other blogs have claimed) is beyond far fetched. It’s asinine.

        1. M. Purdy Avatar
          M. Purdy

          “Why is this different?” 1) NATO wasn’t involved in Vietnam, 2) that was 50 years ago when Russian leadership was decidedly less risk prone, 3) UKR is and has traditionally been in Russia’s sphere of influence. I don’t think the GOP is in the pocket of the Russians, but they are very fond of Putin and many openly cheer his war and denigrate UKR. Biden has done a masterful job in avoiding massive escalation, American and NATO direct involvement, while absolutely knee-capping one of our chief adversaries. It’s been a home run.

          1. DJRippert Avatar
            DJRippert

            ” … many openly cheer his war and denigrate UKR.”

            Who?

            Name names.

            Provide quotes.

          2. M. Purdy Avatar
            M. Purdy

            “So Putin is now saying it’s independent, a large section of Ukraine. I said, ‘How smart is that?’ And he’s gonna go in and be a peacekeeper. That’s the strongest peace force.” – Trump

            “NATO has been supplying the neo-Nazis in Ukraine with powerful weapons and extensive training on how to use them. What the hell is going with these #NATONazis?” – MTG

            “No, Zelenskyy is not a hero. He is an instrument of total destruction.” – Tucker Carlson

            “President Zelensky is a very bad character who is working with globalists against the interests of his own people.” – Candace Owens

            “No Republican should vote for any money for Ukraine. $0 for Ukraine.” – Steve Bannon

            “I have major concerns about a compromised president of the United States who is sending incredible support to a less-than-forthright president of the Ukraine.” – Matt Rosendale

            “Putin–unlike someone else we know–LOVES his country & FIGHTS for its interests” – Dinesh D’Souza

            There are more, but these are the ones I found easily.

          3. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            I’m not entirely surprised that DJR is claiming he is a different kind of “conservative” that the folks Purdy are naming.

            And no, I do not hear a single conservative or GOP advocating F-16s… so not exactly “prescient”.

          4. James McCarthy Avatar
            James McCarthy

            Libertarians are a different kind from conservative. Kinda Huey Long’s “Every man a king.”

          5. DJRippert Avatar
            DJRippert

            Again, limits are limits. Nobody seems to believe that Ukraine should get a “blank check”. But when DeSantis says it … he’s Putin’s ally in the minds of Democrats.

        2. Lefty665 Avatar
          Lefty665

          “Why is this different?”

          It is different because it is on Russia’s door step. We were ready to start WW3 over Soviet troops and missiles in Cuba. The Russians have made it clear that this is equally existential to them. We have missiles in Poland and Romania and are conducting war in Ukraine.

          You have it right on Joe’s ability and asininity.

          1. DJRippert Avatar
            DJRippert

            The missiles were in Cuba. Ukraine is not in NATO.

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