Bacon's Rebellion

Democracy Thrives in Sunlight

Virginia Republicans Respond to Lies About Abortion

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by

Bob Rayner
in , ,

by Jeanine Martin

Democrats mean what they say: abortions allowed up until the moment of birth and for some, like former Governor Ralph Northam, even after a child is born.

Currently Democrats are claiming Republicans want to ban abortion in Virginia. For instance, the excellent Republican candidate for the State Senate in the 31st district, Juan Pablo Segura, has a Democrat opponent constantly running a TV ad saying he wants to ban all abortions, a position he has never taken. It’s simply a lie but that has never stopped a Democrat.

Now the Republicans are responding, explaining their position on abortion with a new ad.

From The Washington Post:

“Voters have a very distinct choice,” said Garren Shipley, spokesman for the House Republican Caucus, which paid for what he called a “six-figure” ad campaign. “Republicans have been absolutely clear from the get-go” that they favor a 15-week limit with exceptions for rape, incest or the life of the pregnant person, he said. “But Democrats can’t give you a straight answer about what they want to do.”

Republished with permission from The Bull Elephant.

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47 responses to “Virginia Republicans Respond to Lies About Abortion”

  1. Stephen Haner Avatar
    Stephen Haner

    Actually the advertisement, which I had already posted yesterday on Bacon’s Rebellion, is all about what they claim the Democrats are for. It makes no effort to explain what Republicans are for. It would be better for the voters if what both camps were for was more of the focus, with the best example being Sen. Siobahn Dunnavant’s direct discussion of her support for a 15-week bill with exceptions.

  2. Nancy Naive Avatar
    Nancy Naive

    Well, if the Republicans didn’t lie then they wouldn’t have to respond…
    https://www.the-independent.com/news/world/americas/us-politics/virginia-republican-abortion-glenn-youngkin-b1880684.html

  3. Nancy Naive Avatar
    Nancy Naive

    15 weeks? 3&3/4 months? Logic dictates 18 weeks as a minimum. Halfway isn’t called “the point of no return” without reason.

    Hey, in addition, on-demand contraceptives, including the hyper-hormonal emergency contraceptive like Plan B. Then, we can have a “point of No deposit, No return” too.

  4. Stephen Haner Avatar
    Stephen Haner

    Actually the advertisement, which I had already posted and linked yesterday on Bacon’s Rebellion, is all about what they claim the Democrats are for. It makes no effort to explain what Republicans are for. It would be better for the voters if what both camps were for was more of the focus, with the best example being Sen. Siobahn Dunnavant’s direct discussion of her support for a 15-week bill with exceptions.

    1. Matt Adams Avatar
      Matt Adams

      That would require either side to explicitly state what they are for, you can’t flip flop your positions when convenient, when you do something that like.

      1. Stanwood Avatar
        Stanwood

        At present, abortions are legal in Virginia until 26 weeks and 6 days (“fetal viability”). In practice, medical abortions before 10 weeks are routine and “on demand”. Surgical abortions in the first trimester (13 weeks) are more expensive but readily available. Late term abortions are much harder to get without a medical reason. The Dems’ position is no change to this status quo.

        The GOP position appears to be a 15 week ban with exceptions for rape, incest, health of the mother. Per the CDC, about 2.2% of abortions in Virginia were past the 15 week mark. Currently these are painful decisions handled by pregnant women and their doctors. The GOP position is we can’t trust women and doctors, we need to insert criminal liability into this mix. That’s going to be a losing position.

        https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/ss/ss7110a1.htm#T10_down

        1. Nancy Naive Avatar
          Nancy Naive

          “ Late term abortions are much harder to get without a medical reason. ”

          An almost superfluous condition.

          1. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            but, but Ralph Northam said he wants it!

            The air is thick with claims of “LIES”.

            WHo do we believe?

          2. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            but, but Ralph Northam said he wants it!

            The air is thick with claims of “LIES”.

            WHo do we believe?

        2. Matt Adams Avatar
          Matt Adams

          Fetal viability is a nebulous term and 26 weeks isn’t viability, it’s just the end of the 2nd trimester. (Just an FYI, at 20 weeks the spontaneous termination terminology changes from miscarriage to still birth)

          ‘In practice, medical abortions before 10 weeks are routine and “on demand”. Surgical abortions in the first trimester (13 weeks) are more expensive but readily available. Late term abortions are much harder to get without a medical reason. The Dems’ position is no change to this status quo.”

          Unfortunately, that is false as was illustrated by Rep Tran’s bill (HB2491) before she left office. The only reason it wasn’t passed, is because it was tabled.

          “The GOP position appears to be a 15 week ban with exceptions for rape, incest, health of the mother. Per the CDC, about 2.2% of abortions in Virginia were past the 15 week mark. Currently these are painful decisions handled by pregnant women and their doctors. The GOP position is we can’t trust women and doctors, we need to insert criminal liability into this mix. That’s going to be a losing position.”

          So if only 2.2% occur after the 15 week limit, what’s wrong with the 15 week limit? That’s actually pretty much the standard in Europe, unless we don’t want to be like them anymore.

          You’re also engaging in the flip flop I pointed out. Before it was safe and rare, now it’s we shouldn’t have any restrictions.

          1. Not Today Avatar
            Not Today

            What’s wrong is that, in practice, the rules/laws you’re advocating are MAIMING women and girls, physically and emotionally. We’ve had pert near a year of in real life experience, in more than 10 states, that show doctors are fleeing, maternal and fetal mortality are markedly increasing, and child poverty is increasing because there are no additional or expanded supports in place to care for the extra children born or the additional healthcare needs (emotional and physical) of any of those impacted by this substandard healthcare. Meanwhile, states that have enacted these policies are also trying to stop/frisk women traveling through town to check for pregnancy, men are suing women for choosing not to birth/co-parent with them (pro tip, if you’re suing her, she was probably spot on), and if that doesn’t work, shooting women dead because…why not? Look it up. Texas is your utopia and a wasteland. You could just live there ya know.

          2. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            “What’s wrong is that, in practice, the rules/laws you’re advocating are MAIMING women and girls, physically and emotionally.”

            That’s nothing more than hyperbole.

            The law is VA is 26 weeks, which was roughly 2 weeks beyond what Roe stipulated.

            “Meanwhile, states that have enacted these policies are also trying to stop/frisk women traveling through town to check for pregnancy, men are suing women for choosing not to birth/co-parent with them (pro tip, if you’re suing her, she was probably spot on), and if that doesn’t work, shooting women dead because…why not”

            Relevance to my comment or even tangentially related?

            “Look it up. Texas is your utopia and a wasteland. You could just live there ya know.”

            Strawman.

            If you’re going to respond, do so utilizing my words and facts, not your own that you believe I’ve said.

          3. Not Today Avatar
            Not Today

            No, sir, these are FACTS as testified to by Texas women and doctors. https://www.texastribune.org/2023/07/19/texas-women-testify-abortion-ban/

            https://www.texastribune.org/2023/09/01/texas-cities-abortion-trafficking/

            https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2023-05-15/texas-woman-killed-by-boyfriend-after-abortion-police-say

            Americans have no reason to believe Republicans are going to stop, ANYWHERE, not at 15 weeks, not at 6 weeks, not at I DO/DON’T. They want to force women to birth babies that they disclaim any obligation for.

          4. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            The last time I checked Virginia isn’t Texas.

            “Americans have no reason to believe Republicans are going to stop, ANYWHERE, not at 15 weeks, not at 6 weeks, not at I DO/DON’T. They want to force women to birth babies that they disclaim any obligation for.”

            Additional hyperbole.

          5. Not Today Avatar
            Not Today

            You asked what’s wrong with 15 weeks. I answered. You don’t like the truth, fine. I cited Texas as one example. Pick any of the other dozen states with similar policies and read similar stories. Address the issues…Republican policies are hurting women.

          6. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            “You asked what’s wrong with 15 weeks. I answered. You don’t like the truth, fine. I cited Texas as one example. Pick any of the other dozen states with similar policies and read similar stories.”

            To which you didn’t reply with anything, but hyperbole and something derogatory about Texas.

            None of which is relevant to the 15 week proposal that was brought up in VA, nor does it change the statistics cited by the other poster (with whom you agree). So if 15 weeks or less (Europe std) covera all but 2.2%, why is it unacceptable.

          7. Not Today Avatar
            Not Today

            Sir, if you want VA to lay a TX size egg just to prove it’s possible? Just say so. The rest of the sentient world is capable of learning from others’ experience. Everyone isn’t dumb enough to line up and touch the hot stove just to see if it’s truly hot.

          8. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            Correlation does not imply causation.

            Coupled with an insult.

          9. Not Today Avatar
            Not Today

            It’s not correlation, dude. It’s a trend. A predicted, documented trend. The data, it burns.

          10. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            Correlation

            “a relation existing between phenomena or things or between mathematical or statistical variables which tend to vary, be associated, or occur together in a way not expected on the basis of chance alone”

            You’re not provided any data, which is what you implying and it doesn’t work.

          11. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            Correlation

            “a relation existing between phenomena or things or between mathematical or statistical variables which tend to vary, be associated, or occur together in a way not expected on the basis of chance alone”

            You’ve not provided any data, which is what you implying and it doesn’t work.

          12. Not Today Avatar
            Not Today

            Read, dude. Start at the beginning of a daily paper and keep going. Lay off the web sauce.

          13. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            “Read, dude. Start at the beginning of a daily paper and keep going. Lay off the web sauce.”

            Provide a salient point, backed by evidence not your opinion, then speak.

    2. Nancy Naive Avatar
      Nancy Naive

      What’s wrong with what exists?

      1. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        They don’t want to talk about that at all!

    3. Eric the half a troll Avatar
      Eric the half a troll

      Democrats are for maintaining access to abortion for the women of Virginia. Republicans are for restricting access to abortion to the maximum extent that they can. Not sure why that is hard to understand.

  5. Not Today Avatar
    Not Today

    Democrats were largely fine with Roe. In its absence, republicans are pushing 6 week/15 week bans that don’t respect the complexity of pregnancy, childbirth, healthcare costs or accessibility. Women get it. Men, largely, don’t. Keep it up. Women see what’s happening both for themselves and, for older women, their daughters (and daughters in law), sisters, friends, granddaughters, nieces, etc. If the Republican Party continues to walk down this road to Abilene, so be it. It won’t be taking the American public along for the ride. Nuance matters. Women don’t want to bring babies into a world controlled by male zealots. Republicans have proven themselves shallow and untrustworthy. If conservatives think they’re winning? Think again. Abortions are rising as choice is restricted. I don’t think that’s their goal. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2023/09/07/us/abortion-data-bans-laws.html

    1. DJRippert Avatar
      DJRippert

      If one believes that life begins with fetal viability in the womb then terminating that life through abortion is no more acceptable than smothering a two week old baby due to ” … complexity of pregnancy, childbirth, healthcare costs or accessibility.”

      The Democratic argument seems to be that later term abortions are rare so they should be ignored.

      Infanticide is rare too. Perhaps it should be ignored.

      1. Nancy Naive Avatar
        Nancy Naive

        If ones stated position is that “abortion is murder,” but is willing to have a time limit, then they should easily accept that “workplace massacres are murder but it’s okay before lunch”. After all, who doesn’t like an afternoon off on administrative leave.

        1. LarrytheG Avatar
          LarrytheG

          “abortion is murder but it’s okay for 15 weeks”.

          anyone believe that position?

          It’s 15 weeks now. If they win the house and Senate… who knows. Do we believe the GOP on this?

          nope.

          1. DJRippert Avatar
            DJRippert

            Life begins when the fetus is viable. 15 – 20 weeks.

            Why is that hard for you to understand?

          2. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            is that an absolute truth everyone agrees on or your view?

          3. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            Well, when they take it out, then they can raise it.

          4. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            Aw, I was gonna say “Nope.”

          5. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            DO moderate GOP believe the right-to-life GOP? Nope.

      2. Not Today Avatar
        Not Today

        One can believe all they want for themselves. We’re talking about policy positions that apply state-/nationwide and yours is a MINORITY view/position. The Dem view is that WOMEN, GIRLS, PREGNANT PEOPLE, and their healthcare providers and families should be the ones making those calls. NOT YOU and NOT ME. I trust women/girls in consultation with their docs and families. You don’t. That’s the bottom line.

        1. DJRippert Avatar
          DJRippert

          So, why can’t those same WOMEN, GIRLS, PREGNANT people be trusted with killing an infant two weeks after birth when the rigors of a lifetime of motherhood becomes apparent?

          What is the difference between two weeks before birth and two weeks after?

          You either believe life begins at birth or you condone murder in later term pregnancies.

          Which is it?

          1. Not Today Avatar
            Not Today

            I believe life begins at first breath, consistent with the traditional, Christian/Rabbinical view. I believe that women and healthcare providers have a duty to preserve the life and health of women and girls so they can live to care for their existing offspring and/or have more someday, unless the woman chooses otherwise. I believe it’s not my place to substitute my judgment for hers. I’m not God and neither are you.

          2. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            pretty good at false equivalences, are you?

          3. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            Now ask him, “What if Mom is in the country just to get that anchor baby born?”

          4. Not Today Avatar
            Not Today

            I believe life begins at first breath, consistent with the traditional, Christian/Rabbinical view. I believe that women and healthcare providers have a duty to preserve the life and health of women and girls so they can live to care for their existing offspring and/or have more someday, unless the woman chooses otherwise. I believe it’s not my place to substitute my judgment for hers. I’m not God and neither are you.

          5. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            The law. Once born, there’s a birth certificate. It says a new person and US citizen now exists with all the rights and protections of citizenship… and here’s the best part… regardless of the immigration status of Mom. Oh, and a Social Security number, it gets one of those too.

            You gonna issue a Conceived Certificate? Is the Fed gonna issue an in-womb Social Security number?

          6. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            Is it really life?
            https://stanmed.stanford.edu/genetic-disorders-incompatible-life-options/

            Yep, that’s why you sometimes find dead bay birds.

            Oh, that’s right. Once it’s born, you don’t care. It’s an SEP, Somebody Else’s Problem.

  6. Nancy Naive Avatar
    Nancy Naive

    He’s not from Virginia. It’s not about reproductive rights. It does illustrate perfectly the Republican ability to reason.

    “We always get the blame,” said Rep. Mike Simpson (R-Idaho), a senior appropriator. “Name one time that we’ve shut the government down and we haven’t got the blame.”

    1. LarrytheG Avatar
      LarrytheG

      https://media4.giphy.com/media/WZZ6gEImOxZBJ2PRB6/giphy-downsized-small.mp4

  7. Eric the half a troll Avatar
    Eric the half a troll

    “Democrats mean what they say, abortions allowed up until the moment of birth and for some, like former Governor Ralph Northam, even after a child is born.”

    Straight up false. Surprised BR would promote such a blatant falsehood.

    1. Nancy Naive Avatar
      Nancy Naive

      You are?

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