Values, Income and Academic Performance

Douglas Freeman High School
Douglas Freeman High School

by James A. Bacon

Last night my wife and I engaged in an annual ritual of the school calendar. We went to Douglas Freeman High School to meet our son’s teachers and learn about the classes he’s taking. This was not a social event. We know very few Freeman families. Our motives were pragmatic. We wanted to arm ourselves with the information we need to be good parents. What is expected of our child academically? How much homework will he have? How can we keep track of his grades? How can we communicate our concerns, if we have any? We want our son to succeed academically because we want him to get into a good college. We also want him to develop the habits of self discipline and iniative that will stand him in good stead as an adult.

Many other parents there last night undoubtedly were thinking the same things. Here’s what surprised me, though. I’d guess that parents of only half the students showed up. Assuming the average class has about 25 kids, one would expect twenty-five parents (or even more, if both father and mother attended, as my wife and I did) to come meet each teacher. But few of the classes we visited were more than half full. While a few parents might have been working late, or were traveling out of town on business, or didn’t have access to a car, or had some other practical reason for missing parent’s night, it’s also likely that some of them didn’t care enough to bother.

And that brings me back to one of the big themes I’ve been hammering on the past couple of weeks in my analysis of Virginia Standard of Learning scores: the role of culture and the role of socio-economic status in influencing the pass rates for SOL tests. I made a huge mistake in the beginning of the analysis. Correlating the performance of Virginia school divisions with the percentage of students classified as “disadvantaged,” I found that 57% of the variability in SOL scores from division to division could be attributed to socioeconomic status. I then proceeded to slice and dice the other 43% in an effort to determine how much of the variability could be attributed to “cultural” factors, as opposed to inequitable distribution of resources or even to the quality of local school leadership.

What parent’s night reminded me is that social-economic status and culture are entwined. Typically, embedded in the truism that academic success in K-12 school is highly correlated with socio-economic status is the assumption that greater household income is what makes the difference. I don’t deny that income is a factor. Affluent parents can buy their kids more books. They can send their kids to summer enrichment programs. They can hire tutors. They can seek help if their child has mental health issues. Without question, all those things make a difference. But they’re trivial compared to the day-in, day-out discipline of going to class, paying attention and doing the homework.

The correlation between academic success and socioeconomic status is complex. The fact is, some people value education more than others do. Some people are willing to make bigger financial sacrifices, spend more of their own personal time and undergo more stress and angst to ensure that their children maximize their educational opportunities.

Anyone who has been a parent to an adolescent male knows exactly what I’m talking about. Parenting takes a lot of effort. It’s easy to let your kid skate by with Cs. By contrast, it can be exhausting to bird-dog your kid every day to enforce rules about watching TV and playing on the computer — basically, banning them from doing the things that adolescent males like to do — and cracking the books instead. Kids argue. They throw tantrums. They sneak behind their parents’ backs. If moral suasion and positive reinforcement don’t work — and frankly, they’re pretty weak compared to the allure of Call of Duty or Halo, or the party culture of sex, alcohol and drugs– the only recourse is running a household police state of constant surveillance.

In the liberal/progressive worldview, it’s the money, or lack of it, that explains a child’s socioeconomic success later in life. If a kid grows up in an affluent household, odds are he or she will be an affluent adult. If a kid grows up in a poor household, odds are that he or she will be poor. As I acknowledged before, access to money can ease stress and lack of it can increase stress. But it’s not the money they have growing up that makes upper middle-class kids successful in life. It’s the values they are raised with. It’s the time and effort their parents put into raising them. Indeed, spoiling a kid with too much material wealth — big allowances, a new car on their 16th birthday, trips to Europe — can breed a sense of entitlement and destroy their initiative. Conversely, a kid who grows up poor and hungry but with the right values, is far more likely to succeed financially.

Socio-economic status is associated with higher academic achievement in significant part because the values and character traits that contribute to successful careers and the accumulation of wealth also contribute to higher academic performance. The values come first, the money follows. That’s why some kids raised in poverty succeed in rising above their circumstances. That’s why some affluent kids become spoiled, find no sense of purpose and fall below their potential. Parenting is hard — that’s why kids from stable, two-parent households have an advantage over kids from broken homes, or kids whose fathers play no role in their life.

Economic determinism doesn’t get us very far in understanding why some kids excel in school and others fail. We have to dig deeper if we want to figure out what it takes to give every child a chance in life to succeed.


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39 responses to “Values, Income and Academic Performance”

  1. Just checked with elementary teacher who says that half to 3/4 of kids parents show up with a high incidence of economically disadvantaged not showing up.

    but you’re off down a culture rat hole to a certain extent unless you want to include kids from broken families and entire extended families and their kids int he same rural school – those families – mom/dad do not have good educations, don’t have many if any in their family that went to college – and in general look a lot like rural families in this country 100-200 years ago.

    they just don’t have a culture of the importance of education and they are not engaged in any kind of strategy to insure their kids get a “better” education.

    that being said – if the kid has a professional and experienced teacher – that kid can go far.. even without parental support.

    On the other hand, if that child ends up with an inexperienced first year teacher – that child has no safety net like the kids with involved parents do.

    You can wish the parents were better but at the end of the day – are you going to justify abandoning the needs – even extra needs of this kid because he has “bad” parents?

    and it’s NOT about money – at all.. per your continued wrongheaded fetish fantasy with “liberal”.

    it’s about the clearly documented inequitable allocation of resources between schools – and between classes inside of schools.

    economically disadvantaged kids taught by inexperienced teachers is a recipe for disaster – and we repeat it over and over and then construct some foolish kabuki theater as the reason why.

    do you or do you not believe in the effective education of kids by find out their needs and providing for them – yes or no? And you’re okay with your kid doing good – even if he grows up in an entitlement society paying for other kids who could have been educated but we played blame game instead?

    blame game politics is as worthless as an ugly teat on a butt… but we do seem to have relentless connoisseurs of that delectable canard.

    1. TooManyTaxes Avatar
      TooManyTaxes

      Schools and teachers can only do so much. If a kid comes from a background where education has little or no value, the odds of such kid doing well in school and learning key skills to be successful in life (which does not always mean a college degree) are pretty long. Some will still find refuge in education and learn despite the odds. Others won’t.

      I think society has a obligation to make an effort to educate these kids with additional needs (Title 1 and associated state funding), which we do. But no one can guarantee results. You can lead a horse to water. There comes a point where throwing good money after bad is simply stupid.

      Of course, if the dirt bags in both Parties would stop their effort to import poverty, the size of our problem would be much less.

      1. re: ” Schools and teachers can only do so much. If a kid comes from a background where education has little or no value, the odds of such kid doing well in school and learning key skills to be successful in life (which does not always mean a college degree) are pretty long.”

        the problem is – the same kids with the same disadvantages and poor parents have totally different outcomes at different schools in Fairfax and Henrico and other places

        there are are much as 30 points differences for the same demographic kids between schools in the same county.

        how do you account for that – two kids – both with less than wonderful parents – one kid – in fact all the kids like him in one school do 30 points better on the SOLs that another kid just like him in another school in the same district?

        I’m not an idealistic person – I’m a pragmatic person who does acknowledge that not all kids are going to make it and there is – in your words – only so much we can do..

        but how do you explain the disparities between the same schools in one school district with the same kids with the same parental disadvantages score 30 or more points differently according to what school they attend?

        Jim B is talking about high school – and I agree – by the time you’re dealing with high school – if a child did not master proficiency in English Reading and Math- in elementary – you’re not likely to ‘fix’ it in high school and the duty of most high schools – is to essentially protect the students who are still viable – from the ones that are doomed… but as I point out – those kids, even when protected in HS – inherit the entitlement and incarceration problems – and – back to the other issue – those kids who graduate end up paying for the needs – food, shelter and medical care for the kids who did not graduate with sufficient education.

        and then the cycle repeats.

        I would think no matter how un-charitable one is – that at some point they realize this way of doing business is causing their own kids – future economic harm.

        you basically end up with two choices – pay for their health care, food and housing or… pay for the prison version of the same.

        do you see other truly realistic, viable options?

        given the choice – figure out how to educate them or pay for their care – as unappetizing as both are – what do you choose? (or do you see a 3rd option?)

        1. TooManyTaxes Avatar
          TooManyTaxes

          I think you see a safety net that it larger than it is. Some of these kids, but certainly not all, will wind up in the prison system. But so will some who went to great schools – public and private alike. There are a lot of poor kids that don’t wind up in the corrections system. There is not much of a safety net for younger people who don’t have kids. If they want a bigger safety net, they probably should move from Virginia. When I was kid in Minnesota, we saw lots of poor people move to the Twin Cities from Chicago because the safety net was much more generous.

          Part of the problem is what I consistently refer to as the Professional Caring Class – those people, often with advanced degrees, who are employed by government or through government grants to help people in need – at least in theory. But preservation of their jobs often trumps helping people in need. Joe Califano who presided over the creation of the federal Department of Education honestly confessed that agency was created and continues to exist solely to please the NEA.

          A former Fairfax County school board member and supervisor told me that a plan to shift money from special ed to extra reading and math teachers was killed several times by the FCPS staff who wanted to protect special ed jobs. But what if extra reading and math help would actually help struggling kids in K-3? Screw em.

          I don’t think we can micro-manage school by school. Some will produce more and some will produce less. Just like teachers. There needs to be a minimum level of skill and knowledge, but sometimes life just isn’t fair.

          1. ” I think you see a safety net that it larger than it is.”

            well I see clear documented evidence that some neighborhood schools in lower income areas are not be equitably funded. Have you actually read this:

            http://www.ed.gov/news/press-releases/more-40-low-income-schools-dont-get-fair-share-state-and-local-funds-department-

            I’d ask that you read it and let me know what you think after you read it.

            ” Some of these kids, but certainly not all, will wind up in the prison system. But so will some who went to great schools – public and private alike. There are a lot of poor kids that don’t wind up in the corrections system.”

            the percentages are lop-sided TMT>. many, many more go on entitlements and prisons than the better off kids who screw up.

            ” There is not much of a safety net for younger people who don’t have kids. If they want a bigger safety net, they probably should move from Virginia. When I was kid in Minnesota, we saw lots of poor people move to the Twin Cities from Chicago because the safety net was much more generous.”

            the “safety net” is equitable funding.. of neighborhood schools – you don’t move away because they are short changing those schools -you fix the problem.

            “Part of the problem is what I consistently refer to as the Professional Caring Class – those people, often with advanced degrees, who are employed by government or through government grants to help people in need – at least in theory. But preservation of their jobs often trumps helping people in need.”

            both in schools and health care – but the thing is that class does not escape the problem – in doing what they are doing – they perpetuate an inequitable system that will foster more entitlement and incarceration burdens for all who pay taxes.

            “Joe Califano who presided over the creation of the federal Department of Education honestly confessed that agency was created and continues to exist solely to please the NEA.”

            TMT – why do you do this foolish partisan crap? it’s dumb. do you know who funds Title 1? do you think the state or Fairfax would fund Title 1 if it got killed?

            are you actually serious in trying to find out and fix the problems or just find political foes to blame it on?

            “A former Fairfax County school board member and supervisor told me that a plan to shift money from special ed to extra reading and math teachers was killed several times by the FCPS staff who wanted to protect special ed jobs. But what if extra reading and math help would actually help struggling kids in K-3? Screw em.”

            special ed is different from economically disadvantaged.. the goal on special ed is not to turn them into taxpaying citizens who don’t need entitlements or will go to prison.. including them in the same conversation as if they are similar to the education of the economically disadvantaged does not really lead to more understanding of the real issue… my view..

            “I don’t think we can micro-manage school by school. Some will produce more and some will produce less. Just like teachers. There needs to be a minimum level of skill and knowledge, but sometimes life just isn’t fair.”

            it’s not micro managing to expect each neighborhood school to get the same equitable funding. It’s a fundamental issue that involves you and the younger who do have jobs – paying higher taxes for entitlements and prisons – because you did not want to “micro-manage” the schools – to essentially stop stealing Title 1 funds for the kids who need it.

            you should be ashamed TMT . You live in the one of the richest counties in the country – and your school system has dozens of elementary schools that have terrible SOL scores.. and those kids are going to grow up to be economic burdens to other kids growing up.

            this is not about “fairness” .. it’s about the damage we do to our own economic interests – personal and government when we continue to generate people who will be dependent on entitlements.. it’s just plain dumb. Do you really want to continue creating generational poor when we know that basic equitable funding will reduce it?

            Sometimes I think we are dumb as a society.. we are purposefully and willfully ignorant even when it costs up directly in our own pocket books..

            shortchanging kids a basic education is dumb. it hurts all of us.

        2. TooManyTaxes Avatar
          TooManyTaxes

          BS Larry. You want to save every public sector job and excuse every failure. Society does NOT have an obligation to right every wrong. And when a parent doesn’t care about education, there is not much that can be done in many cases.

          Low income schools in Fairfax County receive a helluva lot more money per student than do other public schools. Elementary classes in “wealthy areas” often have 30-35 students in upper grades, while comparable classes in lower income schools rarely exceed 18. So what else are we supposed to do?

          Much of the problem stems from illegal immigration and drug problems. We are bringing in people who are illiterate in their own language and they are having 5 or 6 kids. We’ve got men impregnating women and then just disappearing. We have people who care more about their next fix than whether their daughter can read by 3rd grade.

          Fairfax County knowingly tolerates situations where two families rent half a living room or are padlocked in a basement. It doesn’t want to be viewed as anti-illegal immigrant. It doesn’t want to upset the employers who want to pay $5 an hour. It doesn’t want to lay off anyone with MA.

          Just how much more should people pay in taxes or see their services cut?

          My paternal grandmother had an 8th grade education. My grandfather was gassed in WWI and later died in a dentist’s chair as a related consequence. She lost her house; moved into one without indoor plumbing and electricity. She had to raise four young sons on a $68 per month Vets pension, plus whatever else they all scraped together. My dad and his three brothers all worked for a living. They all supported families.

          If people have a duty to pay taxes, the recipients have a duty to use the funds to educate their kids. All I see is a call for people to pay more and excuses for those who screw up.

          1. sorry this got captured by the captcha…

            ” BS Larry. You want to save every public sector job and excuse every failure. ”
            are you listening TMT? I do NOT excuse the failure of the school system to allocate resources equitably and to insure that kids than are capable of learning are getting the resources they need to learn.

            “Society does NOT have an obligation to right every wrong.”

            Oh I agree – but this kind of wrong where the govt is treating kids inequitably is not the same kind of wrong as having a bad boss or running over a pothole or getting mugged. This is wrong and it can be corrected.

            “And when a parent doesn’t care about education, there is not much that can be done in many cases.”

            that’ simply not true TMT. it’s demonstrably not true – as many kids without parents can do just fine if they have good teaching.

            “Low income schools in Fairfax County receive a helluva lot more money per student than do other public schools. Elementary classes in “wealthy areas” often have 30-35 students in upper grades, while comparable classes in lower income schools rarely exceed 18. So what else are we supposed to do?”

            the reports that I have sent you – you have not read, right?

            “Much of the problem stems from illegal immigration and drug problems.”

            no.. TMT – this has been going on long before immigration.. and drugs.. it’s longstanding

            “We are bringing in people who are illiterate in their own language and they are having 5 or 6 kids. We’ve got men impregnating women and then just disappearing. We have people who care more about their next fix than whether their daughter can read by 3rd grade.”

            totally agree.. what are you going to do – abandon the kids and in doing so perpetuate the cycle? The VAST MAJORITY of kids who are not getting the resources they need to learn are NOT immigrants and NOT dealing drugs..

            “Fairfax County knowingly tolerates situations where two families rent half a living room or are padlocked in a basement. It doesn’t want to be viewed as anti-illegal immigrant. It doesn’t want to upset the employers who want to pay $5 an hour. It doesn’t want to lay off anyone with MA.”

            you’re evading the fundamental issue guy and that is not educating children that are capable of being educated..

            “Just how much more should people pay in taxes or see their services cut?”

            it’s not about money – it’s about inequitable allocation of existing money.

            are you reading what I sent you?

            “My paternal grandmother had an 8th grade education. My grandfather was gassed in WWI and later died in a dentist’s chair as a related consequence. She lost her house; moved into one without indoor plumbing and electricity. She had to raise four young sons on a $68 per month Vets pension, plus whatever else they all scraped together. My dad and his three brothers all worked for a living. They all supported families.”

            so do a lot of working poor TMT – they are really no different than your ancestors except in your own mind.

            “If people have a duty to pay taxes, the recipients have a duty to use the funds to educate their kids. All I see is a call for people to pay more and excuses for those who screw up.”

            no. the schools are not equitably allocating resources to the poorer neighborhood schools. They are staffing them with the least experienced, least skilled teachers because those schools are the last choice for more experienced teachers – who could actually help those kids.

  2. Cville Resident Avatar
    Cville Resident

    Have you read Thinking Fast and Slow? A momentous book that makes a compelling case for economic determinism.

    Psychology has proven over and over again that if your “System 1” thinking is occupied in the hear and now, it causes mental fatigue. Which prohibits your deep thinking “System 2.”

    Obviously people in poverty and children in poverty have a lot of “here and now” thinking about everyday anxieties that the more affluent don’t have. Thus, the more affluent have better access to their deeper thinking capacities.

    I don’t think this is all that controversial. I know in my life that when I’m distracted by an everyday anxiety (car trouble for instance), I have a very difficult time concentrating and performing deep mental exercises.

    No theory is 100% correct in this argument. But I do think that if a kid and his family are worried about food, transportation, housing, household stress, etc. , that kid is likely to do poorer in school than a kid whose family has everything going right with minimal stress.

    1. totally agree with Cville Resident and I have a story that parallels the here and now thinking a bit.

      We do not have standardized curriculums but worse than that – we often don’t have protocols to determine where kids are behind in what areas – nor have the specialized help they need.

      and you know who gets affected by that as much as the poor?

      kids who move around a lot…

      which includes the poor who often don’t have permanent career type jobs, and …military kids…

      I experienced significant gaps in my k-5 education because – my military Dad moved no less than 5 times in my schooling.. and the new school not only did not know what I had already learned but what I had not – either nor did they have services to catch me up.

      somehow I got past some of it but folks who read – can still see the effects of it …

      but why must Jim make this about culture and class when innocent kids are involved – and we know that they can be taught if we provide them with the right kinds of resources?

      what’s the entire point of going through that line of thinking?

      we’ve got kids that need more than other kids – through no fault of their own and yet we’re going to make excuses for not helping them because their parents are “slugs”?

      good lord.

      1. “Why must Jim make this about culture and class when innocent kids are involved?”

        Because I think parents need to do more. I’m not saying that “society” shouldn’t step in and save kids from an unfortunate environment. I support programs like Communities in Schools that do exactly that. But we also need to recognize that there are limits to what these outside interventions can accomplish if parents aren’t doing their job.

    2. I totally agree, household stress is a factor. Poverty is a factor. I’m just trying to highlight a factor — call it values, call it culture, whatever — that I think gets short shrift.

  3. Cville Resident Avatar
    Cville Resident

    Whoops, it’s here and now, not hear and now.

  4. re: ” The values come first, the money follows. That’s why some kids raised in poverty succeed in rising above their circumstances. That’s why some affluent kids become spoiled, find no sense of purpose and fall below their potential.”

    I could not agree with you more but why in the world would you pre-ordain the result by justifying letting kids fail when they could have succeeded if they had the right resources they needed?

    You’re dealing at the high school level now.

    the die is pretty much cast for those who failed to get an adequate K-6 – core academic education … those kids – at this point – it don’t really matter what kind of parents – if they are not proficient in English and Math – they are going to be lucky to graduate – forget about college..

    I don’t see much hope for kids that have failed at the basics once they get to high school myself – it’s pretty much an administrative issue to keep them from becoming a disruption and danger to the other kids.. and at that point pretty easy to predict what will happen to them once they ” graduate”.

    Your kid – once he finishes school will have the job of dealing with those kids – as entitlement and incarceration burdens.. no matter how good a job you did with him… and that’s a point that ought not to be lost when you wonder about parenting.. and …… consequences.

  5. Hill City Jim Avatar
    Hill City Jim

    “I don’t see much hope for kids that have failed at the basics once they get to high school”

    So why do the schools keep passing them up? When I look at some of my city’s SOLs where 25% of the students pass a certain grade’s math I wonder why in the world do you promote them to the next grade?

    There was a story on my local TV news about Danville being pressured to hire more black police officers to reflect the community’s ethnic balance. Police said they have standards, applicant must have a high school diploma, and be able to read at a 10th grade level.
    What is wrong with that statement?
    What is wrong in the schools?

    1. re: ” So why do the schools keep passing them up? When I look at some of my city’s SOLs where 25% of the students pass a certain grade’s math I wonder why in the world do you promote them to the next grade?”

      good question. you probably know.. what’s the answer?

      “There was a story on my local TV news about Danville being pressured to hire more black police officers to reflect the community’s ethnic balance. Police said they have standards, applicant must have a high school diploma, and be able to read at a 10th grade level.
      What is wrong with that statement?”

      nothing .. except the same kids can get into the military.. and go to Iraq…or drive you kid to day care or take care of your parent in a nursing home.

      and what are the societal consequences of having white police in black neighborhoods..???

      “What is wrong in the schools?”

      short answer – inequitable funding of neighborhood schools – a documented fact. long answer – why do schools write off innocent kids who can learn if they have the right resources – we know this – ???

      Bacon sometimes talks about “bad” teachers when he’s not talking about “bad” parents …

      but what exactly are “bad” teachers when you send a brand new teachers without experience or special skills to teach the hardest-to-teach kids that need specialized skills – that WE KNOW – DOES WORK ?

      I can’t blame experienced teachers from choosing to NOT go to a school full of the harder-to-teach kids when the Head Start money as been compromised and teachers will be “held accountable” if they fail to teach these kids.

      what teacher in her/his right mind would take such an assignment?

      is that the teacher’s fault? is it the kid’s fault? will blaming the parent fix it?

    2. Cville Resident Avatar
      Cville Resident

      Don’t shoot the messenger, but….I’ve read analysis of studies that show that retention of students has no measurable positive impact on students and usually has a negative impact.

      I don’t know as I’m not in a classroom all day, but the studies say the attitude becomes one of shame and rage by the flunkee rather than one of “celebrating failure.”

      Yes, we can point to the “golden years” of yore and point to success stories of kids who failed (Churchill comes to mind). But….that was a completely different era.

      I think in this day and age, we’ve allowed schools to become a child’s identity. I think the left and right are culpable in this. But it’s true. Thus, “failure” has a much greater stigma/shamefulness to a 4th grader now than 40 years ago. There was an age when the rest of your peers MIGHT not have viewed you as “stupid” or a “retard” (and yes, this language is thrown around in schools) if you were retained. Those days are gone. Go talk to kids and listen to what they say about a peer who failed a grade.

      I am sure that this deep social stigmatization plays a part in promoting kids. I think schools recognize that it’s an enormous scarlet letter nowadays to both peers and society at large.

      1. LifeOnTheFallLine Avatar
        LifeOnTheFallLine

        Realistically, you also don’t want a 15 year old in a class full of 12 year olds, either. Physically, emotionally, psychologically it’s just going to be a bad time for all involved.

  6. Peter Galuszka Avatar
    Peter Galuszka

    “In the liberal/progressive worldview, it’s the money, or lack of it, that explains a child’s socioeconomic success later in life. If a kid grows up in an affluent household, odds are he or she will be an affluent adult.”

    Typical right wing canard. Look at West Point, the little mill town where the Mattaponi and Pamunkey become the York. A pulp mill has bankrolled the town’s schools for years and they pay really good teacher salaries and are quite selective. The school system’s scores show it.

    Hmmm? Money = Good Education? Could be.

    1. TooManyTaxes Avatar
      TooManyTaxes

      A number of years ago, Chris Braunlich made a post on BR showing that, after the 2004 Warner tax increases took effect and new money was added to the state aid to K-12 formula, 49 localities in the Commonwealth the very next year cut local money for their public schools. If they really cared about education, why did they cut local support? Lots of people just want someone else to pay their bills.

      1. TMT – did Mr. Braunlich show you that school districts like Fairfax do not equitably fund their neighborhood schools?

        did he tell you about this: “http://www.edtrust.org/sites/edtrust.org/files/publications/files/Hidden%20Funding%20Gaps_0.pdf”

        The state of Virginia REQUIRES a local match for SOQs.

        the locality can choose to fund in addition to that – for that that are not required by SOQs.

        if they cut money -after SOQ funding goes up – it must mean they were paying for things that SOQs should have been paying for anyhow.

        you resent the rural schools who are trying to give their kids better educations to get jobs and not be on welfare and you ignore your own school system that is denying low income students the education they need to not become entitlement burdens when they grow up.

        why?

        you should care about kids educations.. guy.. it’s not about money – it’s about equitable funding of needs.. with the money you have.

        we have a – not a “racist” system but a classist system where the poorer neighborhoods get crummy schools.. and inexperienced teachers.. and we worry about southwest va instead. geeze.

      2. TMT – did Mr. Braunlich show you that school districts like Fairfax do not equitably fund their neighborhood schools?

        did he tell you about this: “http://www.edtrust.org/sites/edtrust.org/files/publications/files/Hidden%20Funding%20Gaps_0.pdf”

        The state of Virginia REQUIRES a local match for SOQs.

        the locality can choose to fund in addition to that – for that that are not required by SOQs.

        if they cut money -after SOQ funding goes up – it must mean they were paying for things that SOQs should have been paying for anyhow.

        you resent the rural schools who are trying to give their kids better educations to get jobs and not be on welfare and you ignore your own school system that is denying low income students the education they need to not become entitlement burdens when they grow up.

        why?

        you should care about kids educations.. guy.. it’s not about money – it’s about equitable funding of needs.. with the money you have.

        we have a – not a “racist” system but a classist system where the poorer neighborhoods get screwed while we fret about SW Va getting a few pennies more than we think they ought to.

        Mr. Braunlich would have more credibility with me – if he also exposed this problem.

        1. TooManyTaxes Avatar
          TooManyTaxes

          Larry, please read this. FCPS goes beyond Title I and state funding and adds local tax dollars to schools with higher levels of poverty. That is why those schools have average class size in the range of 15-18, while their counterparts in Oakton, McLean, Vienna, Great Falls, etc. may have 30-35 students in the same grade. How is FCPS harming low-income kids? You are just making wild statements without evidence.

          1. ” Larry, please read this. FCPS goes beyond Title I and state funding and adds local tax dollars to schools with higher levels of poverty. That is why those schools have average class size in the range of 15-18, while their counterparts in Oakton, McLean, Vienna, Great Falls, etc. may have 30-35 students in the same grade. How is FCPS harming low-income kids? You are just making wild statements without evidence”

            TMT – can you show me what you’re saying? seriously.

            can you show higher levels of staffing and funding on a per school basis?

            where are you getting your facts? Mine are in several different reports -no specific to Fairfax but no school district that I know of in Va provides the info that you claim is being provided by Fairfax – and maybe Fairfax is and if you can show me – I will stand corrected.

          2. TooManyTaxes Avatar
            TooManyTaxes

            Larry, I am working on getting the information. My source is a bipartisan group of Fairfax County parents, including several with advanced degrees, who have been digging out the information.

          3. I really do hope you can get it TMT.. and somewhat dismayed that the schools do not provide this up front to demonstrate their commitment

            I wanted to show you how many Fairfax Schools failed to achieve Fully Accredited status:

            Bailey’s Elementary School Accredited with Warning
            Bryant Alternative High Accredited with Warning
            Bucknell Elementary Accredited with Warning
            Cameron Elementary Accredited with Warning
            Fairfax County Adult High Accredited with Warning
            Forestdale Elementary Accredited with Warning
            Herndon Elementary Accredited with Warning
            Hutchison Elementary Accredited with Warning
            Kilmer Center Accredited with Warning
            Lynbrook Elementary Accredited with Warning
            Mount Vernon High Accredited with Warning
            Mount Vernon Woods Elementary Accredited with Warning
            Mountain View Alternative High Accredited with Warning
            Rose Hill Elementary Accredited with Warning
            Saratoga Elementary Accredited with Warning
            Stuart High Accredited with Warning
            Washington Mill Elementary Accredited with Warning
            West Potomac High Accredited with Warning
            Whitman Middle Accredited with Warning
            Woodlawn Elementary Accredited with Warning

            this is more schools that most counties in Virginia have in total

            do you think Fairfax already spends more money on these schools than average?

      3. LifeOnTheFallLine Avatar
        LifeOnTheFallLine

        Literally nothing you wrote has any relationship at all to what Peter wrote.

    2. it’s not even about “more” money. It’s about spending the money you do spend – more effectively… more cost-effectively…

      no one is asking for more money for schools.

      we’re asking that the economically disadvantaged schools get THEIR SHARE of experienced teachers that those kids need .

      we are staffing these lower income neighborhood schools with new and inexperienced teachers .. because the more experienced teachers do not want those jobs – in part because the work is harder but more so because we have created this “blame bad teachers” canard that basically threatens the careers of veteran teachers who are not going to go to schools where their careers will be ended.

      1. LifeOnTheFallLine Avatar
        LifeOnTheFallLine

        I’m asking for more money. I’m asking to spend it on nutrition and health programs. I’m asking to spend it on parenting classes and universal pre-K. I’m asking to spend it on paying professionals a professional salary – it shouldn’t take a teacher in Richmond Public Schools 10 years to make what an engineer at VDOT makes walking in the door.

        1. I think we need the services you’ve mentioned but unfortunately any funding has to be firewalled from other uses as we already have evidence that if you don’t – the schools will find ways to use the money to supplant not supplement their existing budget needs. Without sufficient safeguards, the money will be fungible.

          School Districts have gotten very, very good at two things:

          1. – knowing what money can be shifted around and how from it’s original intended purpose. ( i.e. using Title 1 money for Title 1 – but shorting other staff by having larger class sizes because some kids get sent to Title 1 during parts of the day).

          2. – keeping just about everyone in the dark about how money is actually
          spent – especially with regard to neighborhood schools staffing.

          More money for school teachers. This needs to be done but in my view we need to pay for performance and incentivize the positions that require high-skill sets and working with harder-to-teach kids. And the pay should not just be for taking the position – it should be for results. The better the results – the higher the stipend.

          right now there are no incentives to attract skilled teachers to the tougher jobs and, in fact, there are career risks.. and dead-ending .. with the harder-to-teach classes in the tougher neighborhood school demographics – I think we need to pay more for the teachers that are – higher skilled – work in more difficult circumstances – and prove to be effective. I’m NOT in favor of any system that makes it easier for a principal or administration target individual teachers – and that’s why I think assessments like PALS should be a part of the evaluation process so that if a Principle says the teacher is not good but PALS says otherwise – the principal will have some explaining to do. Teachers need protection from those who would try to shift blame to them for the whole school not performing well.. which has become unfortunately one of the practices when a school fails the SOLs and/or fails accreditation – some principles will then try to save their own skin by blaming individual teachers.

          We pay stipends right now for extra duties such as classroom leaders and coaches, band, GS and who knows what else but these stipends are for extra duties not necessarily performance.

          why not significant stipends for teachers of the more difficult demographic classes with additional stipends for performance ?

          I’m not at all a believer that all teachers are the same and get the same salary no matter what duties they have or what they perform because it motivates perverse incentives for those who will seek the less difficult assignments if the money and benefits are the same.. who wants the additional stress and tougher work for no increase in money?

          The evidence, in fact, points to widespread practices of new teachers getting assigned the tougher schools and tougher-to-teach kids but hardly anyone actually knows this because the schools – and DOE – both refuse to disclose staffing levels at individual schools for aggregate salary totals and aggregate experience totals.

          you know when you go to many businesses they bragg about their aggregate years of experience – and for good reason – but neighborhood schools – you have no idea if the average years of service is 4 or 14… or if the turnover rate is 1% or 10%. – even though some of this data has to be reported to the Feds.. and 3rd party organizations like Pro-Publica and SchoolDigger get it and publish it.

          – and if the school districts had to publish the total salary costs per school along with the aggregate years of service or similar metrics – PLUS a side-by-side comparison of all schools in the district with that data plus their SOL scores- schools would be far more interested in assuring equitable level of resources across the schools.

          Without some reforms – the schools are not going to change. It’s become apparent – that across Virginia – a large number of districts engage in the practice of sending new teachers with the least developed skills to the tougher neighborhood schools and that perpetuates – what NCLB sought to fix – and that is – essentially leaving kids behind.. we still do it – but we now do it in stealth mode.

          The school districts treat the problem like CAP and TRADE. Some neighborhood schools are very good and their performance helps to keep the aggregate SOL school district pass rates at the required thresholds.

          where you know this is true is where you have school districts that meet the AYP at the district level – but they have low performing schools in their districts – including some that are on accreditation warning – or actually lose accreditation.

          Today is the day -by the way – when the DOE is supposed to identify the schools that are in accreditation trouble – and word is that as many as 1/3 of the schools in Va are involved. Pay attention to where these schools are located… and then look at the District level SOL scores…

  7. okay – so i could not resist going to SchoolDigger and the state DOE website to get the scoop on Douglas Freeman.

    I have not compared it with the other high schools in Henrico but this is a pretty darn good school…

    SOL EOC Reading is over 90% aggregate

    and the racial breakdown looks like this:

    Black 83
    Hispanic 88
    White 96
    Asian 75

    note that the Asians not only did not outscore the whites but nor the blacks or Hispanics.

    now .. should I dare to compare Douglas Freeman black pass rates with the other high schools in Henrico?

    maybe Jim already has.

    here – take a look – http://www.schooldigger.com/go/VA/compare/0189000795/schoolcompare.aspx

    what you have to do is check all the high schools to be a favorite then choose the reading column to sort to get the rankings.

    there is a 15 point difference between the highest and lowest aggregate level reading scores for Henrico High Schools

    here’s the lowest school -Highland Springs

    Black 81
    Hispanic 93
    White 90
    Asian not enough

    both schools are showing about a 13 point difference between white and black but most amazing it’s showing Hispanics scoring higher than whites at Highland Springs!

    here’s the difference in black scores between the high schools:

    Deep Run High Black EOC English:Reading 100.00%
    Douglas S. Freeman High Black EOC English:Reading 82.76%
    Glen Allen High Black EOC English:Reading 88.31%
    Henrico County Henrico High Black EOC English:Reading 82.23%
    Hermitage High Black EOC English:Reading 80.71%
    Highland Springs High Black EOC English:Reading 81.29%
    Henrico County Tucker High Black EOC English:Reading 85.58%
    Mills E. Godwin High Black EOC English:Reading 76.67%
    Varina High Black EOC English:Reading 83.92%

    almost a 25 point variation.. for one race.. that’s consistent with the other school-to-school comparisons ..

    hard to figure that culture or class alone is responsible for these variations.

  8. LifeOnTheFallLine Avatar
    LifeOnTheFallLine

    Douglas Freeman has 15% of its students qualifying for free or reduced lunch, so assuming 50% of the parents didn’t actually show up that means more than just the poor parents who are poor because they’re lazy and don’t care about education and assuming that parents not showing up is some indicator of the cultural value these parents place on education let us know at the end of the school year if 50% of your son’s peers failed. Or will it be closer to 15%?

    You keep plucking this chicken even though no study anywhere confirms it. Your own data doesn’t even confirm it! Is the white culture in West Point way more focused on education and intellectual endeavors than the white culture in Richmond? Is the black culture in West Point vastly more focused on book learning than white culture in Richmond?

    Here’s a small write up from a 2007 study in Connecticut about economic integration in schools (http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/05/10/the-benefits-of-mixing-rich-and-poor/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0):

    “A 2007 Connecticut study found that poor children who attended economically mixed prekindergarten classes progressed from well below the national average in crucial language skills to just above it during the course of the school year, while those in low-income-only classes remained below the norm. A new evaluation of Boston’s heralded preschools reaches the same conclusion — peers matter.”

    Going from well below average to above average in the course of a year is a big deal. Did some of that culture rub off on them?

    You say that it’s mostly values that drive why poor kids from poor families turn out poor (“But it’s not the money they have growing up that makes upper middle-class kids successful in life. It’s the values they are raised with.”). But the effects of poverty and economic stress – and this is on adults no less – can cause an IQ drop of 9 points – that’s nearly an entire standard deviation! (http://articles.latimes.com/2013/aug/30/science/la-sci-poverty-iq-20130831) And that’s JUST the economic stress. Now add lack of sleep. Now add improper nutrition. Now add undiagnosed or untreated illness. Add the effects of cortisol on the hippocampus (http://www.scientificamerican.com/blog/post/stressing-the-hippocampus-why-it-ma/?id=stressing-the-hippocampus-why-it-ma). But none of that is effecting poor parents who likely grew up poor themselves. They’re just lazy with bad cultural values.

    If this was anyone else with any other blog I’d just ignore it and go on with my day, but it’s so frustrating to see you get so close to the truth and then just lazily fall back on anecdotes. In no other way would that be acceptable. If I manifested myself as the fever dream nightmare liberal that DonR conjures up so often and said I think all white people are racist and my evidence was just “Well, I was walking down the street with my friend and some white person called me a n-word lover” I would get laughed out of the room. But you spend an entire piece talking about how poor people are poor because they’re lazy and lack proper values just based on “I went to my son’s open house and there weren’t many parents there.”

    1. You wrote, “You spend an entire piece talking about how poor people are poor because they’re lazy and lack proper values.”

      For the record: I make it very clear that poverty creates stresses that impact academic performance. I do not say that poor people are poor because they’re lazy and lack proper values. I *do* say that values matter — they are one significant variable among several — and I think that the discussion over values gets short shrift in the policy debate. The problem is that you don’t want to acknowledge that values and cultural background matter *at all*.

      1. LifeOnTheFallLine Avatar
        LifeOnTheFallLine

        For the record, these are the actual words you wrote:

        “I made a huge mistake in the beginning of the analysis.”

        ” The values come first, the money follows.”

        “But it’s not the money they have growing up that makes upper middle-class kids successful in life. It’s the values they are raised with.”

        So you can toss out all the “I mean not having money causes stress, sure…” dodge all you want, but your words indicate that rich people have money because they have better cultural values and that’s why their kids perform better and poor people don’t have money because they have bad cultural values and that’s why their kids perform worse. It’s a shoddy analysis supported solely by anecdote and completely divorced from history or context. It’s lazy and as someone who purports to be a thinker you should be ashamed.

        I’ve never said values and cultural background don’t matter *at all*, what I’ve said is that 1) you foolishly draw a sharp distinction between black American values and white American values, 2) you don’t actually know the first thing about black culture in general in this country and certainly not about the black inner-city culture you decry and 3) you divorce analysis of the current condition from history.

        Meanwhile, you refuse to engage on studies like the one done in Connecticut. You refuse to engage on the huge variance in black achievement across school districts in this state. Is West Point just chockablock full of Cliff Huxtables and Ward Cleavers and Richmond is pulled down by Pookie and Cletus? How about the other counties where the racial divide was within single digit differences? Do the mountain whites have worst culture than their urban counterparts but mountain blacks somehow have better culture?

        Furthermore, I’ve proposed initiatives that even if cultural values were as big a deal as you seem to think would ameliorate those negative effects. Having actual counselors and social workers show up on campus to give these kids legitimate guidance and therapy. Having universal pre-k staffed by professionals so that kids can learn to love learning early. Having parenting classes offered/mandated as part of receiving benefits so that parents who don’t know how important reading to your child is can find out.

        Because not every parent knows that. Sure, every parent talks to their kids, but if they have a limited vocabulary then how useful is that when the amount of words that children in different socioeconomic groups receive different total amounts of words heard as children and differences in nuance and complexity of those words (http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2010/03/the-32-million-word-gap/36856/)?

        And if culture is to blame for black and poor under performance how do you square that with surveys that show that they’re the group most likely to assign value to a post-secondary education (http://news.rice.edu/2013/11/12/african-americans-are-the-most-likely-to-value-postsecondary-education/)? Or that students from poor families want to go to college more than their better off peers (http://www.act.org/newsroom/releases/view.php?lang=english&p=3212)?

        1. the “values” argument to me sounds a lot like the “culture” and “genes”

          argument and like Fall LIne – I agree that these are legitimate issues but they are not the predominate and most important ones because – once again – if you compare schools – you’ll see different pass rates for the same “values” demographics..

          so there are other things in play also when you can see as much as a 30 point variance in black pass rates between the schools in the same district.

          It’s totally true that kids with single parents of limited education who live near the poverty line are not going to get the same care and attention that college-educated two parent families provide but why focus on the fact that someone grew up poorly educated and their kids are on the same track if we do not provide them with – what we know works – Title 1 type interventions – and evidence that neighborhood schools that qualify for Title 1 are not getting the same equitable distribution of non-Title 1 resources.

          Title 1 was intended to SUPPLEMENT the school not SUPPLANT but these neighborhood schools that score god awful low compared to other schools in the same district with the same percent demographics – have something going on besides “values”.

          Since the schools do not disclose staffing and funding on a per school basis – there is no easy way to verify this – except – that the data itself is reported to the Feds and the Feds have studied it – and determined there is bad stuff going on:

          ” More Than 40% of Low-Income Schools Don’t Get a Fair Share of State and Local Funds, Department of Education Research Finds”

          http://www.ed.gov/news/press-releases/more-40-low-income-schools-dont-get-fair-share-state-and-local-funds-department-

          so my problem is – if you have knowledge of the above study – why would you continue to focus on “values” and ignore the study?

    2. billsblots Avatar

      Anyone can have a change of 9 IQ points from test to test, it’s more normal than unusual and may not reflect anything besides biorhythms.

      1. LifeOnTheFallLine Avatar
        LifeOnTheFallLine

        Yes, any ONE. But we’re talking about the aggregate here.

  9. billsblots Avatar

    JAB-
    I wrote about this same topic as it applied to my daughter teaching a 4th grade class in a federally monitored school in Winston-Salem. Back to School night was always a bit of a festive night in Chesterfield County, kids in the younger grades often went to school that night too and met friends in the library or gym or hallway while the classrooms were standing-room only with one or two parents per student. This parental involvement was what she remembered, and was stunned and hurt when parents of just two children showed up each of the two years she taught.
    I wouldn’t be too concerned about the Douglas Freeman showing unless it was ninth grade, which in my experience of five kids through Thomas Dale High School was still heavily attended by parents. By Junior and Senior years the number of parents dropped significantly, which I did not take to mean a lack of caring or involvement, rather that by that time the kids had it figured out and the school administration and teachers themselves at TDHS were emphasizing student responsibility.
    Parental involvement in Chester was such that a large ruckus was made one year when two of the elementary, middle, and high schools, I forget which two, scheduled back to school night on the same night and parents raised cane that they were not able to attend both schools’. School administrators made sure that did not happen again.

  10. sdrockw@hotmail.com Avatar
    sdrockw@hotmail.com

    Thank you for the commentary and discussion regarding this piece. I work for a program called Reach Out and Read and run the coalition here in VA. We work with pediatricians who ‘prescribe’ books to parents basically coaching them at every well child visit about the importance of reading aloud. This occurs until the child reaches five years old. This early childhood intervention is an attempt to change a family culture at a young age encouraging education and setting a child up to have a vocabulary etc and a love of reading by kindergarten. As we all know, changing family culture or values is not easy and there are many that frankly, don’t get it and it slips by. But, on the other hand, from my experience of doing this for the past seven years, the ones that do ‘get it’ will show up at open house night in high school. I have seen ex-convicts take their babies to the doctor and read to them after the doctors model behavior over and over. The doctors (here is one in action: http://wtvr.com/2014/06/26/hero-carolyn-boone/) that we work with are commited to this lower socio-economic population and I promise you, have changed direction for many individuals. One kid at a time is our motto.

  11. Look – there are such a thing as REAL Orphans… .. and virtual ones, not only one parent situations but “latch key” kids.

    I never heard anyone say that orphans were screwed because they did not have parents.

    This whole line of reasoning is wrong on several levels – as if kids without good parents cannot be educated and then it gets nasty – because of all the various reasons why a child might not have a “good” parent – we go for the “culture” jugular…

    the real world – is that a good number of kids – not one or two or a few – a very large number of kids – in some schools 50 or 60%

    1. – do not have the best parents in the world – for a variety of reasons including the fact that mom works two jobs..and is dead on her feet.

    2. – these kids have normal IQs just like other kids

    3. – these kids can successfully learn if taught differently but we know how to do this – it’s a proven process. Pre-K, Head Start then Title 1.

    4. – if taught the way we know does work , most will learn – will pass the SOLs

    5. – will graduate with a sufficient education to become employed, a productive citizen, pay taxes, not need entitlements…

    6. – raise their kids as “good parents” with a “culture” of education.

    do you break the cycle or do you make excuses?

    we’ve turned into a nation of blamers and excuse-mongers.. who do not want to be responsible for kids if they have “bad” parents or more learning needs than the easiest to teach.

    some of us have gone further and talk about “values” of the kids… which sounds a little like code for “culture” or “genes”. I hope not but it’s almost as bad to say “values” as if it means the child has a permanent “fail” condition that cannot be changed and the folks who want to give it up should not feel guilty about it.

    the long and short – “excuse for Dummies” – “these kids are defective and cannot be educated .. it’s not our fault.. someone ruined them, we should walk away and stop feeling like we have some kind of responsibility..

    there’s some big problems with that attitude but the biggest one is that some schools have proven hugely successful at educating these kids.. with high SOL pass rates – we know it can be done.. so saying it can’t be done is simply pretending otherwise.

    we KNOW how to educate these kids – it’s not rocket science but it does take educators with special skills – in teaching but also in assessing.. i.e. they have to know how to use assessment protocols like PALS which drill down to the specific problems..

    we can do this – but instead of saying yes, we will – we say “it’s the parents fault” and can’t be fixed.

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