UVA Leadership Squelches Debate About University’s Antisemitism Problem

Provost Ian Baucom and Academic & Student Affairs Chair Elizabeth Cranwell: Antisemitism issues best addressed “in another setting.”

by James A. Bacon

During the University of Virginia Board of Visitors meeting Thursday, Provost Ian Baucom briefed board members on what the administration was doing to defuse tensions in the UVA community between Jews and the vocal pro-Palestinian faction over the Israel-Gaza war.

He mentioned “sustained academic programming” to illuminate sources of the decades-long conflict. He took note of the mental health services provided those experiencing mental anguish. He assured the Board that the University was working to bring opposing parties together in dialogue and to understand “the reality of Jewish, Muslim and other religious minorities.” UVA, he said, was committed to “deep engagement” and “freedom of expression.”

The Provost reiterated the administration’s support for free speech. UVA, he said, was a place where “people are free to disagree” but where “everyone belongs.” “We need to listen to people we disagree with,” he added, and concluded by thanking the Board for its “help and wisdom.”

But when board members began addressing the hostile environment for Jewish students at UVA, there was no sign that the Provost, President Jim Ryan, or Rector Robert Hardie were interested in “listening” to anyone who disagreed with them, much less in “engaging” with them on the most contentious issue to afflict the University in recent years.

Critics of the Ryan administration struggled to find an opportunity to raise their concerns in open session. They may have been given a voice in closed session — we don’t know because no one is permitted to discuss what transpired — but the public was denied the right to hear those views expressed, and debated, in an open forum.

The conclusion of Baucom’s remarks did open up a brief opportunity, however, for board members to broaden the dialogue beyond what Ryan and Hardie had scripted for the Board meeting.

Doug Wetmore was the first to try. Referring to a referendum that students had approved the previous day demanding that UVA’s endowment divest corporations doing business in Israel, he declared the vote to be “one of the most shameful things to happen in the history of the university.” Jewish students, he went on to say, don’t feel safe. He noted that a federal civil rights investigation is probing complaints by Jewish students who say they’ve been harassed, threatened, intimidated and even physically assaulted.

(UVA confirmed to The Daily Progress that the University had received a total of 19 reports “related to potential antisemitism” from students, faculty and staff, but said that not one had been lodged as a formal complaint.)

Wetmore said he had received “500 emails” since 9:00 that morning from concerned parents. “We need to distance ourselves categorically from horrible things like this referendum.”

Stephen Long chimed in, citing reports that an openly pro-Palestinian professor had canceled a class and urged students to vote in the referendum. Long declared the action “reprehensible.”

Then Bert Ellis spoke up. “I totally agree that we should have discourse, and we should have civil discourse, and we should have open discourse,” he said. He had spent a lot of time speaking to Jewish students and parents, he said, adding that he’d gotten many of the same emails as Wetmore. Jewish students and parents are not afraid of a debate.

But you cannot have a debate on our grounds right now the way we are allowing the rules to be abused.  The SJP (Students for Justice in Palestine) group will verbally abuse a Jewish student or parent for doing nothing but standing by. They will not allow a civil discourse, and we will not condemn them.

The student Board of Elections has rules for conducting referenda, he added, but “they were definitely broken.”

Thomas DePasquale kept the discussion going. Although he disagreed with the referendum outcome, he said, the issues are complex and he wouldn’t describe SJP behavior as “misconduct.” 

Then, just as an exchange of views was threatening to break out, Elizabeth Cranwell, chair of the Academic and Student Life Committee quashed it. “I think issues of student behavior are best addressed with the administration, and I do hope you all take advantage of having that conversation in a different setting.”

“I thank you for all these comments, and we will have the ability to address these issues,” Baucom added. “They are important. They are serious. And I thank you all for that.”

The next day, Ryan did return to the issue of the Israel-divestment issue. It was his practice to stay neutral on student referenda, so he did not comment upon the Israel-divestment measure before the vote, he explained. The controversy “stirred a lot of passion,” and he feels sympathy for both Israelis and Gazans about lives lost, but if he had been a student, he can now say after the fact, he would have voted no. “I do not believe the university should use its endowment to weigh in” on such matters, he said. However, out of respect for students’ freedom of speech and tradition of self-governance, he chose not to bias the outcome.

Board members were given no opportunity to respond or ask questions.

The board meeting moved on to the topic of Artificial Intelligence. At the end of the presentation, Ellis shoe-horned in the issue of UVA’s hostile environment toward Jews.

“I want to go back, Jim, to your opening remarks on the referendum. We have a huge antisemitic problem at this university,” Ellis said. “Those remarks…. Is that it? Is that how we’re going to deal with it?”

Rector Hardie cut him off. “We’re going to deal with that in closed session. That’s a closed session item…. There’s a number of people who may not agree with you on that, so we’ll talk about that in closed session…. Under student safety.”

“I disagree with the premise,” Ellis said. “It’s more than just safety. This referendum may have been at the end of the day student run, but there’s a whole national organization of BDS (boycott, divestment, sanctions) that’s promoting these things…. You and Ian have met with parents who have given you a litany of incidents … that are happening at this university.”

Hardie: “That’s a safety issue and will be discussed in close session.”

Ellis: “It’s more than safety. They’re intimidated, they’ve been spit upon….”

Hardie: “The student safety issue will be covered in closed session, Bert.”

Ellis: “It is more than that.”

Hardie: “What you’re discussing right now is a student safety issue, and it will be discussed in closed session. Hard stop.”

Ellis: “I’ll bring it back up in public session.”

Hardie: “And then you’ll be reprimanded.”

The Board then closed the meeting to the public. The closed session lasted significantly longer than scheduled, which is unusual. When the Board re-entered open session, it addressed some minor formalities and then ended the three-day meeting. Board members are forbidden from disclosing the substance of conversations in closed sessions, so the public is left in the dark about what was said.

James A. Bacon is executive director of the Jefferson Council. This column was published originally on the Jefferson Council blog and is replicated here with permission.


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87 responses to “UVA Leadership Squelches Debate About University’s Antisemitism Problem”

  1. Turbocohen Avatar
    Turbocohen

    Antisemitism thrives at UVA because the morally confused board enables it. UVA is a reflection of the board today. I wonder if the incident involving a Jewish student door being covered with feces was discussed in closed session?

    UVA’s Apartheid Divest Referendum passed by a 68%-32% vote, with 7,993 students of the campus’ total 17,294 undergraduate population casting ballots which is a reflection on the schools hard left bias. ( >70% of polled UVA students self identify as Democrats.)

  2. Lefty665 Avatar
    Lefty665

    Perhaps if Jews at UVa joined “Jews against Genocide in Gaza” they would find more acceptance. OTOH if they support Israeli genocide of Palestinians perhaps it is appropriate that they feel uncomfortable. That is still much more pleasant than what more than 2 million Palestinians feel in Gaza every day at the hands of the Israelis. Of course the 30,000 Palestinians, most of them women and children, the Israelis have murdered in Gaza are not feeling anything at all.

    1. Turbocohen Avatar
      Turbocohen

      Their HeToo movement condones the rape, sexual assault of Jewish women. Send those who support BDS to Gaza and let’s see how long it takes them to weed out the LGBTQIA+XYZ among them?

      Get real Lefty, this hell continues for both sides because Hamas is doing the deed pretty cheap for the players.

      1. Lefty665 Avatar
        Lefty665

        You have it bassackwards, BDS is to stop the flow of money to genocidal Israel, not send people to Israel. But it is not a surprise you have that wrong too.

        If Biden would stop the flow of American offensive weapons to Israel the genocide would cease in a hurry, like the heartbeats of the 30,000 Palestinians murdered by Israel. Congressional reluctance to provide more funding for Israeli murder and genocide is a good first step.

        1. Turbocohen Avatar
          Turbocohen

          Is the BDS movement pro-peace? I know, this is a trick question because as I see it BDS contributes to violence and unrest, effectively incentivizing the Palestinians to oppose Israel rather than negotiate with it.

          1. Lefty665 Avatar
            Lefty665

            It is anti genocide which is more than Israel can say.

            Are you pro genocide? This is not a trick question.

          2. Turbocohen Avatar
            Turbocohen

            I am pro the killing has to stop. Hamas must surrender or the war must continue. #NeverAgain ain’t just a slogan.

            Do you support dialogue and understanding among ALL students, or not ALL students?

          3. Lefty665 Avatar
            Lefty665

            “the war must continue” So, you are pro Israeli genocide of Palestinians. Did you admire it as much when the Nazis practiced genocide on Jews? Or, were you against genocide before you were for it? This is not a trick question.

            The evidence is dribbling out that the IDF murdered as many Israelis as Hamas did, or more, on Oct 7. Should the US be bombing the IDF for murdering Israelis instead of the Houthis who are trying to stop the killing in Gaza as you say you want? This is not a trick question either.

          4. Chip Gibson Avatar
            Chip Gibson

            Have you ever actually worked with the IDF, there Lefty…? Some of us have, up close and personal. Your rhetoric is stunningly off the mark. Having been a Marine when your terrorists friends blew up 241 Marines, Sailors, and Soldiers, in 1983, I have little patience for this continued bias.

          5. Lefty665 Avatar
            Lefty665

            You confuse opposition to war crimes and crimes against humanity with support for terrorists. Tsk, tsk, your scurrilous accusation that I have terrorist friends is unbecoming.

            As a Marine you were committed to obeying the laws of war. You apparently have rejected that training. Our country is fortunate you are no longer in the service.

            Here is the USMC guidance on war crimes. You seem to have forgotten your training.
            https://www.marines.mil/Portals/1/Publications/MCRP%204-11.8B%20War%20Crimes.pdf

            ps, If you jarheads had done a decent job of base security it never would have been blown up. You let a truck full of explosives through the front gate for christsake.

        2. Chip Gibson Avatar
          Chip Gibson

          If funding for Israel were to end, then the antisemitic genocide by Palestine would increase dramatically, as shown during the initial horrific attack on 7 October.

          1. Lefty665 Avatar
            Lefty665

            500-600 Israelis killed by Hamas is “antisemitic genocide by Palestine”?

            Surely you must be joking, you cannot really be that deluded.

            Oct 7 was wrong, it was murder, there is no question. But to equate that to the 30,000 Palestinians, mostly women and children subsequently murdered by Israel using US weapons is bizarre.

            Fund defensive weapons for Israel, not offensive. No more bombs, artillery or ammunition the Israelis use to murder civilians.

          2. Chip Gibson Avatar
            Chip Gibson

            Those who commit great acts of atrocity and inhumanity, and provoke bloody wars on behalf of their “people” and “hatred” must be prepared to die in entirety. If not, they will most likely do so again. There is no 1 for 1 in war.

          3. Lefty665 Avatar
            Lefty665

            Hamas probably is prepared to die. The other 2.3 million Palestinians do not deserve to die as the 30,000 of them murdered by Israel, mostly women and children, have done so far.

            Your comment that “Those who commit great acts of atrocity and inhumanity, and provoke bloody wars on behalf of their “people” and “hatred” must be prepared to die in entirety.” is the danger for Israel even more than Hamas.

            Again, here’s what the USMC has to say on war crimes. You seem to have forgotten your training.

            https://www.marines.mil/Portals/1/Publications/MCRP%204-11.8B%20War%20Crimes.pdf

        3. BDS is just another op conducted by Iran. https://nationalinterest.org/feature/irans-role-the-boycott-israel-campaign-24931 By supporting BDS you are supporting Iran, the Muslim Brotherhood and the destruction of the Jewish People and State. Shame on you.

          1. Lefty665 Avatar
            Lefty665

            The genocide in Gaza, war crimes and crimes against humanity are conducted by Israel. By supporting Israel you are supporting genocide, war criminals and their crimes against humanity. Shame on you.

            Starve the beast, BDS, not bombs.

          2. CJBova Avatar

            War is ugly, brutal and causes deaths . That does not make it genocide. Hamas terrorists and murderers who built a military complex under and around civilians are responsible for their deaths.Where are the calls for Hamas to return the hostages–living and dead–and lay down their arms? Where are the calls for Hamas to stop insisting on the destruction of all Jews and the only Jewish state in the world? That is the only genocide being supported and attempted.

          3. Lefty665 Avatar
            Lefty665

            30,000 civilians, mostly women and children, murdered by Israel in the last 5 months make it genocide.

            Israel is responsible for those it has murdered, and the US by extension by supplying the weapons used.

            Murdering civilians to get at combatants has been a war crime and crime against humanity for about 3/4 of a century. You know better.

            USMC guidance on war crimes
            https://www.marines.mil/Portals/1/Publications/MCRP%204-11.8B%20War%20Crimes.pdf

          4. Turbocohen Avatar
            Turbocohen

            Killed by whom?

          5. Lefty665 Avatar
            Lefty665

            Your reading skills are certainly not “turbo”.

            “30,000 civilians, mostly women and children, murdered by Israel in the last 5 months make it genocide.”

            Your advocacy of war crimes, genocide and crimes against humanity make you an accessory to genocide, no better than the “good Germans” who stood by during the Holocaust.

            Please read what the USMC has to say about war crimes:

            https://www.marines.mil/Portals/1/Publications/MCRP%204-11.8B%20War%20Crimes.pdf

          6. Lefty665 Avatar
            Lefty665

            Your reading skills are certainly not “turbo”.

            “30,000 civilians, mostly women and children, murdered by Israel in the last 5 months make it genocide.”

            Your advocacy of war crimes, genocide and crimes against humanity make you an accessory to genocide, no better than the “good Germans” who stood by during the Holocaust.

            Please read what the USMC has to say about war crimes:

            https://www.marines.mil/Portals/1/Publications/MCRP%204-11.8B%20War%20Crimes.pdf

          7. Turbocohen Avatar
            Turbocohen

            I can read. Killed by whom, Lefty 665?

          8. Lefty665 Avatar
            Lefty665

            “30,000 civilians, mostly women and children, murdered by Israel in the last 5 months make it genocide.”

            Apparently you can’t read very well. I bolded it to help you.

            When I was a kid there was a guy we nicknamed “Lightning”. It was because he was so profoundly slow. Seems likely you got tagged with “Turbo” the same way.

  3. Stephen Haner Avatar
    Stephen Haner

    Hamas and the Palestinian Authority have preached and promised and prayed and postured for a genocidal war against Israel for decades, then the damn fools went and actually did it. This is all on their heads. What is happening in Gaza is war, war as war always is, and the Israelis should press on as long as they are degrading the ability of Hamas to repeat the horror of Oct. 7. They get to define their victory. I call on Hamas to surrender unconditionally. Join me in that, Lefty?

    I pity the Gazans as I pity the Japanese and German civilians, but their governments chose war. Be careful what you ask for. The fire bombings and then nuclear bombings were genocide, Lefty? There should have been cease fires in 1944? Walk a mile in some Israeli’s shoes and get back to us. Read a freaking history book.

  4. Stephen Haner Avatar
    Stephen Haner

    Hamas and the Palestinian Authority have preached and promised and prayed and postured for a genocidal war against Israel for decades, then the damn fools went and actually did it. This is all on their heads. What is happening in Gaza is war, war as war always is, and the Israelis should press on as long as they are degrading the ability of Hamas to repeat the horror of Oct. 7. They get to define their victory. I call on Hamas to surrender unconditionally. Join me in that, Lefty?

    I pity the Gazans as I pity the Japanese and German civilians, but their governments chose war. Be careful what you ask for. The fire bombings and then nuclear bombings were genocide, Lefty? There should have been cease fires in 1944? Walk a mile in some Israeli’s shoes and get back to us. Read a freaking history book.

  5. Turbocohen Avatar
    Turbocohen

    Antisemitism thrives at UVA because the morally confused board enables it. UVA is a reflection of the board today. I wonder if the incident involving a Jewish student door being covered with feces was discussed in closed session?

    UVA’s Apartheid Divest Referendum passed by a 68%-32% vote, with 7,993 students of the campus’ total 17,294 undergraduate population casting ballots which is a reflection on the schools hard left bias. ( >70% of polled UVA students self identify as Democrats.)

  6. Eric the half a troll Avatar
    Eric the half a troll

    “A Palestinian woman had twins after trying for 10 years. An Israeli strike killed them both”

    https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/a-palestinian-woman-had-twins-after-trying-for-10-years-an-israeli-strike-killed-them-both

    Don’t try to tell me you are pro-life if you support this.

  7. Eric the half a troll Avatar
    Eric the half a troll

    “You and Ian have met with parents who have given you a litany of incidents … that are happening at this university.”

    Which are being actively investigated by both the university and federal authorities. Why would Bert insist on undermining these investigations by discussing them in public?

    Kudos to Jim for at least acknowledging there are active investigations in play (even though he did not mention the university led ones reported in the same article).

  8. Stephen Haner Avatar
    Stephen Haner

    Hamas and the Palestinian Authority have preached and promised and prayed and postured for a genocidal war against Israel for decades, then the damn fools went and actually did it. This is all on their heads. What is happening in Gaza is war, war as war always is, and the Israelis should press on as long as they are degrading the ability of Hamas to repeat the horror of Oct. 7. They get to define their victory. I call on Hamas to surrender unconditionally. Join me in that, Lefty?

    I pity the Gazans as I pity the Japanese and German civilians, but their governments chose war. Be careful what you ask for. The fire bombings and then nuclear bombings were genocide, Lefty? There should have been cease fires in 1944? Walk a mile in some Israeli’s shoes and get back to us. Read a freaking history book.

    1. Lefty665 Avatar
      Lefty665

      After the firebombing and nuking of civilians in WWII the world adopted humanitarian laws, they are the law in the US, that require the protection of, and prohibit the killing of civilians when going after combatants. Murdering civilians are rightfully termed war crimes and crimes against humanity.

      Hamas is evil, but that does not justify Israeli murder of tens of thousands of Palestinian women and children in pursuit of Hamas. Those are crimes against humanity.

      The victims deserve not your pity, but your condemnation of war crimes and crimes against humanity.

      1. Stephen Haner Avatar
        Stephen Haner

        Nope. Hamas hides behind, under and around those civilians. Hamas is more committed to their suffering than any IDF commander is. War crime is an oxymoron. Join me in calling on Hamas to surrender? Nope. You’re descended from the Aushwitz guards, as they are.

        1. Lefty665 Avatar
          Lefty665

          Tsk, tsk, that’s pretty ugly.

          Hiding behind, under and around civilians is specifically addressed in the law on war crimes. It is explicitly not an excuse for committing crimes against humanity.

          I have no love for Hamas. Hamas is not a justification for Israel to kill 30,000 Palestinian civilians, mostly women and children. To defend that genocide makes you more an ideological descendant of Auschwitz guards than me. I ask you the same question I posed to TCohen. Did you oppose genocide by the Nazis before you supported it by the Israelis?

          I follow your posts and generally like them. It is disappointing that you have this issue so wrong. I encourage you to rethink your position. Opposition to war crimes and crimes against humanity is not a controversial position.

          ps, I also encourage you to learn how to spell Auschwitz before you accuse others of having it in their heritage.

          1. Turbocohen Avatar
            Turbocohen

            Lefty.. A typical leftist hiding his face and name.

            Lefty my relatives were murdered. They weren’t hiding either. They were living in a melting pot of people from many ethnicities until Gaza’s slaughtered them.

            My only question for you is one you won’t answer.

          2. Lefty665 Avatar
            Lefty665

            First, I am sorry for your loss. No one should have died that day.

            Second, how many of your relatives were murdered by the IDF? The Hannibal Directive was in full force on Oct 7.

            The facts are slow, but they are emerging. The IDF was on an uncontrolled rampage on Oct 7. They killed as many Israelis as Hamas did.

            To use those murders, many committed by Israelis, to justify genocide, crimes against humanity, the murder of 30,000 Palestinians mostly women and children, is bizarre almost beyond belief.

            I have one question for you, have you no sense of decency?

          3. Turbocohen Avatar
            Turbocohen

            No name, lefty? Never forget. Never forgive. Continue until total annihilation of Hamas and return of all hostages.

          4. Lefty665 Avatar
            Lefty665

            And Turbo is your given name, not. The pot calling the kettle black. A nom de plume is a nom de plume and a time honored device we both employ. I’m not so vain I need to admire my own face when I post.

            Through your support of genocide in Gaza you incite 2 billion Muslims to never forget and never forgive either. 2B vs 8M is bad odds. If you care about the survival of Israel, and I do, you would want to stop the murder of Palestinians by Israel.

            Your embrace of crimes against humanity, genocide, in Gaza is as despicable as those who embrace Nazi genocide. We hung Nazis and their accessories for their genocide. May you profit from their example and change your ways.

          5. Turbocohen Avatar
            Turbocohen

            How did Hamas build an underground network tunnels right below UN “relief” buildings and nobody knew it?

          6. Lefty665 Avatar
            Lefty665

            Dunno. How did Israel pull 3/4 of its troops off the Gaza border and nobody but Hamas paid any attention? Incompetence proliferates.

            It was not the UNs job to keep track of Hamas’s construction projects. It was the IDF’s job to protect Israel.

          7. Lefty665 Avatar
            Lefty665

            Dunno. How did Israel pull 3/4 of its troops off the Gaza border and nobody but Hamas paid any attention? Incompetence proliferates.

            It was not the UNs job to keep track of Hamas’s construction projects. It was the IDF’s job to protect Israel’s borders.

            Glad to see you’re thinking about something other than your lust for war crimes. Read the USMC war crimes guidance yet? Here it is again for your edification:

            https://www.marines.mil/Portals/1/Publications/MCRP%204-11.8B%20War%20Crimes.pdf

          8. WayneS Avatar

            Do you have any evidence whatsoever to back up your claim that the IDF hilled as many Israelis as did Hamas on October 7, 2023?

          9. Lefty665 Avatar
            Lefty665

            The evidence has been dribbling out. I don’t know that we will ever get an exact count of exactly who killed who. The evidence is clearly there that many, if not a majority, of the Israeli deaths on Oct 7 were friendly fire.

            The Israeli press has been publishing accounts of massive IDF assaults killing Israelis on Oct 7. That includes multiple accounts of indiscriminate, panicked and repeated attacks by helicopter gunships on anything that moved and Israeli tanks firing on civilian homes.

            Helicopter and tank rockets and cannons can burn bodies beyond recognition and destroy concrete homes. Hamas fighters armed with AKs not so much.

            Israeli reporting also documents the Hannibal Directive being in full force on Oct 7. That directs the killing of Israelis by Israelis rather than letting them be taken hostage.

            While not likely a Hannibal Directive murder, the subsequent killing of 3 escaped hostages, IDF soldiers, by the IDF illustrates the issues of poor training and discipline in the IDF. It has been a pretty sorry show.

            The early propaganda that inflamed emotions, and still does (demonstrated here on BR), false reports of things like Hamas murdering of babies, has been clearly shown to be false, again in the Israeli press.

            None of that negates or excuses war crimes committed by Hamas. It is however a caution that much of what we have heard about Oct 7 has been propaganda and that the rage over dead Israelis ignores that many, if not a majority, were killed by fellow Israelis.

            From Oct 7 on it is clear that Israel has the firepower to kill massively and Hamas does not. That does not excuse Hamas, but it is a pretty good indicator who has done the bulk of the killing and destruction.

          10. You were asked for evidence to prove your point and you decided to change the subject.

          11. Lefty665 Avatar
            Lefty665

            In response to your other comment I linked to the USMC directive on war crimes. I encourage you to read and understand war crimes through the eyes of the USMC.

            The last almost 5 months of reporting from Haaretz and other Israeli news sources tell a sordid tale, including many accounts of the panicked destruction of anything that moved by attack helicopters and tanks.

            Here is a link to one Haaretz article. You can do the rest of the research yourself if you care to be informed, which seems unlikely.

            https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-10-20/ty-article/.premium/underprepared-and-overconfident-israel-failed-to-spot-the-signs-of-impending-disaster/0000018b-4976-d03a-afcb-697edb020000

            Here’s from another report:

            “The Israeli news outlet, Yedioth Aharanoth, is reported saying that “the pilots realised that there was tremendous difficulty in distinguishing within the occupied outposts and settlements who was a terrorist and who was a soldier or civilian … The rate of fire against the thousands of terrorists was tremendous at first and, only at a certain point, did the pilots begin to slow down the attacks and carefully select the targets.”

            Kill ’em all, the good and the bad alike.

          12. Stephen Haner Avatar
            Stephen Haner

            Small keys, big fingers, Gauleiter Lefty….All war is a crime. The US civil war debated in the other column was a horror. Hamas should now surrender if it cares about civilians.

            In the other column they admire Lee and Jackson. In this, I’m citing Sherman on the horror of total war.

          13. And it looks like Lefty has swallowed the Hamas casualty numbers hook line and sinker. If you sum up the casualty numbers reported by Hamas since OCT 7th, the number of casualties would equal the population of Gaza before OCT 7th. Someone needs to check their math.

          14. WayneS Avatar

            Hiding behind, under and around civilians is specifically addressed in the law on war crimes.

            Yes. Using human shields is addressed in the law on war crimes. It is considered a war crime.

          15. Lefty665 Avatar
            Lefty665

            It is a war crime every bit as much as killing civilians to get at combatants.

            The USMC guidance on war crimes:

            https://www.marines.mil/Portals/1/Publications/MCRP%204-11.8B%20War%20Crimes.pdf

          16. Turbocohen Avatar
            Turbocohen

            Lefty, here you go again demonstrating why this years political cycle is not left vs right. It’s Liberty vs Tyranny of the antisemitic left. Thank you for being an honest Democrat. And thank you for reminding me why I left your side because I just dont see the hatred and antisemitism here on the right that you folks on the left keep harping about.

          17. Lefty665 Avatar
            Lefty665

            Wrong again Turdo. You really are not very quick. So much for that stereotype. Nor do you appear to be a NJB.

            Working to pull Israel back from the self destructive crimes against humanity it is committing is out of desire to help Israel survive. It is pro-semitic. 8M Israelis versus 2B enraged Muslims are very poor odds. It is past time for Israel to cease and desist the war crimes.

            Your lust for war crimes, crimes against humanity, and genocide threaten Israel’s survival and is anti joooz as you so bizarrely spell it. Have you been drinking again?

            Would you like a referral to psychiatric services for help dealing with the Auschwitz Syndrome that seems likely to drive your apparent genocidal blood lust and self loathing?

            I’m an Indy, not a Dem so you’ve got that wrong too. But that’s not a surprise either.

            Have a nice day.

        2. Lefty665 Avatar
          Lefty665

          In case you missed it in my response to your prior post, here is what the USMC teaches its members about war crimes. The USMC does not consider war crimes to be an oxymoron.

          https://www.marines.mil/Portals/1/Publications/MCRP%204-11.8B%20War%20Crimes.pdf

          1. Lefty, you are a broken record. What color crayon tastes the best? My bet is you like the orange crayons. You are only repeating the same propaganda pushed by Hamas and Iran. Please do more reading than what the Marines publish about war crimes. BTW, that pub is out of date. An update was issued in 2015 with some significant changes.

          2. Lefty665 Avatar
            Lefty665

            Sigh, war crimes are war crimes. It is pretty simple really. Do you favor genocide and crimes against humanity or do you oppose them.

            Here’s what the Marines have to say about war crimes. I agree with the USMC, and encourage all to reject crimes against humanity.

            https://www.marines.mil/Portals/1/Publications/MCRP%204-11.8B%20War%20Crimes.pdf

          3. Sigh all you want. Even the Marines now realize that war crimes are not black and white. That is why thy have updated this publication. What the IDF is doing is not a war crime and if it was the Hague would be all over it. They are watching what the IDF is doing closely. I just wish they would do the same for Hamas, but alas the Hague hates Jews as much as Hamas. Here is something a little more up to date. https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/war-crimes.shtml

          4. Lefty665 Avatar
            Lefty665

            You’re so funny, not. 30,000 murdered civilians, mostly women and children are “black and white” war crimes, crimes against humanity, genocide.

            You can try as hard as you want to cloud the issue and embrace crimes against humanity. It is clear beyond doubt, murdering civilians is war crime, just as it was in Nazi Germany. That you would argue that it is not is horrific.

            Here’s from the link you provided.

            “the Geneva Convention of 1864 and subsequent Geneva Conventions, notably the four 1949 Geneva Conventions and the two 1977 Additional Protocols, focus on the protection of persons not or no longer taking part in hostilities.”

            The USMC document I linked to is current US policy on war crimes for US service men and women. Here it is again for your edification:

            https://www.marines.mil/Portals/1/Publications/MCRP%204-11.8B%20War%20Crimes.pdf

          5. There is no reasoning with you. I am sorry I tried.

          6. Lefty665 Avatar
            Lefty665

            See my response to you above quoting the source you provided on war crimes in black and white. Israel has committed many war crimes.

            It is you who have no reason. I am not sorry I have tried to help you understand war crimes. If I have a regret it is that you are a slow learner.

            It is my hope you will read the “more up to date” article on war crimes you linked and internalize its lessons on war crimes.

            Here it is again in case you “forgot” your link:
            https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/war-crimes.shtml

            and the USMC guidance that repeats much of the same language:
            https://www.marines.mil/Portals/1/Publications/MCRP%204-11.8B%20War%20Crimes.pdf

            They both quote the 1949 Geneva Conventions and their additional protocols that have been ratified as US law.

          7. Lefty665 Avatar
            Lefty665

            From the “more up to date” article on war crimes you linked. War crimes in black and white (emphasis added) that in many cases is word for word the same as the USMC guideance:

            “1. The Court shall have jurisdiction in respect of war crimes in particular when committed as part of a plan or policy or as part of a large-scale commission of such crimes.

            2. For the purpose of this Statute, ‘war crimes’ means:

            a. Grave breaches of the Geneva Conventions of 12 August 1949, namely, any of the following acts against persons or property protected under the provisions of the relevant Geneva Convention:

            i. Wilful killing

            ii. Torture or inhuman treatment, including biological experiments;

            iii. Wilfully causing great suffering, or serious injury to body or health;

            iv. Extensive destruction and appropriation of property, not justified by military necessity and carried out unlawfully and wantonly;

            v. Compelling a prisoner of war or other protected person to serve in the forces of a hostile Power;

            vi. Wilfully depriving a prisoner of war or other protected person of the rights of fair and regular trial;

            vii. Unlawful deportation or transfer or unlawful confinement;

            viii. Taking of hostages.

            b. Other serious violations of the laws and customs applicable in international armed conflict, within the established framework of international law, namely, any of the following acts:

            i. Intentionally directing attacks against the civilian population as such or against individual civilians not taking direct part in hostilities;

            ii. Intentionally directing attacks against civilian objects, that is, objects which are not military objectives;

            iii. Intentionally directing attacks against personnel, installations, material, units or vehicles involved in a humanitarian assistance or peacekeeping mission in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations, as long as they are entitled to the protection given to civilians or civilian objects under the international law of armed conflict;

            iv. Intentionally launching an attack in the knowledge that such attack will cause incidental loss of life or injury to civilians or damage to civilian objects or widespread, long-term and severe damage to the natural environment which would be clearly excessive in relation to the concrete and direct overall military advantage anticipated;

            v. Attacking or bombarding, by whatever means, towns, villages, dwellings or buildings which are undefended and which are not military objectives; …”

            The itemized definitions of war crimes with many sub sections continues down through section f. Despite your blather to the contrary, war crimes are black and white, and are incorporated in US law.

            Israel has committed many of these war crimes. It is almost as if Israel has used the Geneva Conventions as a cookbook on how to commit war crimes.

            You will find much of this language from the 1949 Geneva Conventions, ratified as United States law, quoted in the USMC manual on war crimes. Linked here again:
            https://www.marines.mil/Portals/1/Publications/MCRP%204-11.8B%20War%20Crimes.pdf

            and the article you linked that confirms the Marine Corp guidance:
            https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/war-crimes.shtml

    2. Chip Gibson Avatar
      Chip Gibson

      Outstanding, Sir!

    3. Lefty665 Avatar
      Lefty665

      Yes the fire bombings and nukes were genocide every bit as much as the Nazis.

      After the war the world reacted and clearly defined those kind of acts as both war crimes and crimes against humanity. Those treaties were adopted as US law.

      That is reflected in the guidance our services give their members. For example, here is what the USMC, no wusses there, has to say about war crimes:

      https://www.marines.mil/Portals/1/Publications/MCRP%204-11.8B%20War%20Crimes.pdf

      You are either for murdering civilians, crimes against humanity, or you are against them. It is really pretty simple. The Marines are against them.

  9. VaPragamtist Avatar
    VaPragamtist

    “Board members are forbidden from disclosing the substance of conversations in closed sessions”

    Forbidden by who?

    And where is the “student safety” exemption under FOIA?

    1. WayneS Avatar

      And where is the “student safety” exemption under FOIA?

      I was wondering the same thing, so I looked it up.

      Possibly § 2.2-3705.2.4 would apply. It offers an exemption for “Information concerning security plans and specific assessment components of school safety audits, as provided in § 22.1-279.8.“,

      but also includes:

      Nothing in this subdivision shall be construed to prevent the disclosure of information relating to the effectiveness of security plans after (i) any school building or property has been subjected to fire, explosion, natural disaster, or other catastrophic event or (ii) any person on school property has suffered or been threatened with any personal injury

      So, I think it would be a stretch since it appears people have been threatened on campus.

    2. WayneS Avatar

      And where is the “student safety” exemption under FOIA?

      I was wondering the same thing, so I looked it up.

      Possibly § 2.2-3705.2.4 would apply. It offers an exemption for “Information concerning security plans and specific assessment components of school safety audits, as provided in § 22.1-279.8.“,

      but also includes:

      Nothing in this subdivision shall be construed to prevent the disclosure of information relating to the effectiveness of security plans after (i) any school building or property has been subjected to fire, explosion, natural disaster, or other catastrophic event or (ii) any person on school property has suffered or been threatened with any personal injury

      So, I think it would be a stretch since it appears people have been threatened on campus.

    3. WayneS Avatar

      And where is the “student safety” exemption under FOIA?

      I was wondering the same thing, so I looked it up.

      Possibly § 2.2-3705.2.4 would apply. It offers an exemption for “Information concerning security plans and specific assessment components of school safety audits, as provided in § 22.1-279.8.“,

      but also includes:

      Nothing in this subdivision shall be construed to prevent the disclosure of information relating to the effectiveness of security plans after (i) any school building or property has been subjected to fire, explosion, natural disaster, or other catastrophic event or (ii) any person on school property has suffered or been threatened with any personal injury

      So, I think it would be a stretch since it appears people have been threatened on campus.

    4. WayneS Avatar

      And where is the “student safety” exemption under FOIA?

      I was wondering the same thing, so I looked it up.

      Possibly § 2.2-3705.2.4 would apply. It offers an exemption for “Information concerning security plans and specific assessment components of school safety audits, as provided in § 22.1-279.8.“,

      but also includes:

      Nothing in this subdivision shall be construed to prevent the disclosure of information relating to the effectiveness of security plans after (i) any school building or property has been subjected to fire, explosion, natural disaster, or other catastrophic event or (ii) any person on school property has suffered or been threatened with any personal injury

      So, I think it would be a stretch since it appears people have been threatened on campus.

    5. WayneS Avatar

      And where is the “student safety” exemption under FOIA?

      I was wondering the same thing, so I looked it up.

      Possibly § 2.2-3705.2.4 would apply. It offers an exemption for “Information concerning security plans and specific assessment components of school safety audits, as provided in § 22.1-279.8.“,

      but also includes:

      Nothing in this subdivision shall be construed to prevent the disclosure of information relating to the effectiveness of security plans after (i) any school building or property has been subjected to fire, explosion, natural disaster, or other catastrophic event or (ii) any person on school property has suffered or been threatened with any personal injury

      So, I think it would be a stretch since it appears people have been threatened on campus.

    6. WayneS Avatar

      And where is the “student safety” exemption under FOIA?

      I was wondering the same thing, so I looked it up.

      Possibly § 2.2-3705.2.4 would apply. It offers an exemption for “Information concerning security plans and specific assessment components of school safety audits, as provided in § 22.1-279.8.“,

      but also includes:

      Nothing in this subdivision shall be construed to prevent the disclosure of information relating to the effectiveness of security plans after (i) any school building or property has been subjected to fire, explosion, natural disaster, or other catastrophic event or (ii) any person on school property has suffered or been threatened with any personal injury

      So, I think it would be a stretch since it appears people have been threatened on campus.

    7. WayneS Avatar

      And where is the “student safety” exemption under FOIA?

      I was wondering the same thing, so I looked it up.

      Possibly § 2.2-3705.2.4 would apply. It offers an exemption for “Information concerning security plans and specific assessment components of school safety audits, as provided in § 22.1-279.8.“,

      but also includes:

      Nothing in this subdivision shall be construed to prevent the disclosure of information relating to the effectiveness of security plans after (i) any school building or property has been subjected to fire, explosion, natural disaster, or other catastrophic event or (ii) any person on school property has suffered or been threatened with any personal injury

      So, I think it would be a stretch since it appears people have been threatened on campus.

    8. WayneS Avatar

      And where is the “student safety” exemption under FOIA?

      I was wondering the same thing, so I looked it up.

      Possibly § 2.2-3705.2.4 would apply. It offers an exemption for “Information concerning security plans and specific assessment components of school safety audits, as provided in § 22.1-279.8.“,

      but also includes:

      Nothing in this subdivision shall be construed to prevent the disclosure of information relating to the effectiveness of security plans after (i) any school building or property has been subjected to fire, explosion, natural disaster, or other catastrophic event or (ii) any person on school property has suffered or been threatened with any personal injury

      So, I think it would be a stretch since it appears people have been threatened on campus.

  10. William O'Keefe Avatar
    William O’Keefe

    A little bit of back bone and tough love could go a long way to resolving what is clearly a serious problem. The former President of Notre Dame wrote an opinion piece in the Wall Street Journal in 2014 that began this way–“Several decades ago, my predecessor as the president of the University of Notre Dame, the Rev. Theodore M. Hesburgh, was presented with a dilemma. A Jewish student, after repeated hazing by some kids in his dorm, had left campus and gone home. After thinking it over, Father Hesburgh summoned the perpetrators. “Pack your bags,” he told them. “Go find your friend. Either you persuade him to come back to Notre Dame, or you don’t come back.”
    There should be zero tolerance for antisemitism at UVA period. If those who are abusing jewish students don’t it, they should go else where.

    1. John Harvie Avatar
      John Harvie

      Wow! best comment of all!

  11. DJRippert Avatar
    DJRippert

    I think Bert Ellis, et al need to separate incidents like assaulting a Jewish student and/or spitting on a Jewish student from the student referendum demanding that UVA’s endowment divest corporations doing business in Israel.

    The former is absolutely intolerable while the latter is just a display of immaturity and naivete.

    You can be anti-Israel and not antisemitic. While all antisemites are anti-Israel not all anti-Israel sentiment is voiced by antisemites.

  12. DJRippert Avatar
    DJRippert

    A cease fire while Hamas is still holding hostages, including Americans?

    Oh no, no, no.

    The absolute minimum requirement for even a temporary ceasefire should be the release of all the hostages.

    As for historical context:

    1948 Palestine War – Arab nations attack Israel, Israel wins.

    Six Day War (1967) – Arab states mobilize for war, Israel attacks, Israel wins.

    Yom Kippur War (1973) – Egypt and Syria attack Israel, Israel wins.

    Lebanon War (1982) – Israel invades Lebanon to throw out the PLO, Israel wins

    You would think that various Arab groups would stop attacking Israel since Israel always wins.

    1. Lefty665 Avatar
      Lefty665

      Hamas has offered return of all hostages in return for a permanent cease fire since October. Israel has countered with return the hostages first then we talk about a cease fire. The US has vetoed 3 UN resolutions calling for a cease fire.

      That’s no justification for Hamas, taking hostages is a war crime. It does explain how we got 5 months in with no ceasefire and only a limited hostage exchange because Israel would not agree to a permanent cease fire. The incentive for the Israelis is doing what they wanted to do, pulverize Gaza and starve the surviving Palestinians out.

      Israel does not always win. You forgot Israel’s invasion of Lebanon in 2006. The IDF was handed its ass by Hezbollah and withdrew. Hezbollah is much more capable now than it was then and the IDF less so, and profoundly less so than in 20th century wars where it prevailed.

      The current buildup of Israeli forces near Lebanon in preparation for an invasion is a disaster waiting happen. Along with battle hardened ground forces and close to two decades to fortify southern Lebanon, Hezbollah has enough rockets, many of them smart, to overwhelm Iron Dome and reach all of Israel. The Syrians would also like to reclaim the Golan Heights.

      Hamas is a trivial opponent in comparison, yet after 5 months and committing massive war crimes Israel has not prevailed in Gaza. A second front war in Lebanon is what the right wing lunatics in Tel Aviv want, and they appear to have popular support. What could go wrong?

      1. Turbocohen Avatar
        Turbocohen

        This is easy, if Hamas wants a deal, return the hostages. Otherwise the war on Hamas should continue to ramp up. Hamas kills more Gaza citizens by using them as human shields.

        No to returning hostages? More war on Hamas.. And lets send those pro Hamas UVA students to Gaza and see if they want make peace.

        1. Lefty665 Avatar
          Lefty665

          No, Israel kills Gaza citizens. You can try all you want but you cannot make lies truth.

          Read the laws of war, I include it again to give you another opportunity to enlighten your war criminal advocacy.

          The actions you repeatedly advocate are war crimes, crimes against humanity and genocide.

          Here is how the USMC lays it out:

          https://www.marines.mil/Portals/1/Publications/MCRP%204-11.8B%20War%20Crimes.pdf

          1. Turbocohen Avatar
            Turbocohen

            Hamas kills Israel citizens.

          2. Lefty665 Avatar
            Lefty665

            And that is a war crime too. One war crime does not justify another. We can tell the good guys from the bad guys because the good guys do not celebrate more war crimes in response.

            The IDF also killed many Israelis on Oct 7. Curiously you do not advocate killing 10s of thousands of them too. Why not?

            Since Oct 7 Israelis have killed 30,000 Palestinian civilians, mostly women and children. That is a war crime. That is a crime against humanity. That is genocide.

            That you favor those crimes is a demonstration of how profoundly the Auschwitz Syndrome has infected you. You are indistinguishable from the Nazis. I pray you will recover from it.

            Until then, I once again encourage you to read the simple, easy to understand training the USMC provides explaining what constitutes a war crime and how Marines keep from committing the war crimes that you have lust for. Semper Fi.

            https://www.marines.mil/Portals/1/Publications/MCRP%204-11.8B%20War%20Crimes.pdf

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