Trickle-Down Economics Revealed

Who's laughing now?
Who’s laughing now?

by James A. Bacon

A generation ago, liberals mocked the so-called “trickle-down economics” of the Reagan administration, the idea that creating wealth for the rich would trickle down to the less affluent by way of expanded economic activity. While Reagan himself never used that term, his economic philosophy of tax cuts, tax-code reform and restrained federal spending did work as advertised. The 1980s were a period of great prosperity in which all income groups and ethnicities shared. The irony is that the trickle-down economics is a label more aptly applied to the policies of President Barack Obama. During O’s five years in office, the rich have gotten richer while the poor have fed on scraps. But you’ll never hear the term “trickle down” applied to Obama’s monetary policies.

There are many winners from the low interest rate policy implemented by the Federal Reserve Board with the full support of the Obama administration — most of them wealthy. One group is the “millionaires and billionaires” who benefit from rising stock and bond prices. Another is the owners of mortgages who have refinanced their debt at lower interest rates, in many cases saving hundreds of dollars a month. Needless to say, those with the highest incomes who can afford the most expensive houses benefit the most. The biggest beneficiary, of course, is the federal government, the world’s largest debtor, which saves on the order of $200 billion to $300 billion a year in interest payments on its $17 trillion debt. Finally, there is a modest trickle-down effect in the form of job creation in interest rate-sensitive industries like construction.

Of course, there are many losers, too — a mega-narrative that has gone largely unreported by the mainstream media. One group of losers is small business, which finds it more difficult to gain access to capital (it’s easier for banks to lend to the government). Another group consists of state and local governments whose retirement funds no longer generate the returns they were several years ago and now face chronic fiscal stress as they struggle to make up the difference. Fifteen years ago, for example, the Virginia pension system was fully funded. Today, even after major structural reforms, Virginia and its local governments still owe billions.

Then there are the little guys, especially the Baby Boomers who accumulated modest nest eggs to help support them in retirement. I have fulminated on this topic on and off since writing “Boomergeddon,” frustrated that the issue has drawn so little attention. But a Bloomberg News article published today in the Times-Dispatch (sorry, can’t find the link) shows the full dimension of the problem. Some key points:

A 65-year-old who wanted to pay for retirement with annuities tied to bonds needed 24% more wealth in 2013 than in 2005. National Bureau of economic Research President James Potera calculated in a research paper released in February. …

U.S. Treasury yields are at least 2 percentage points less than what they would be otherwise because of the Fed’s low-rate policies and stimulus programs, said William Ford, former Atlanta Fed president who wrote a 2011 paper estimating the impact on savers of monetary easing. That reduces their income by at least $280 billion annually, his analysis shows.

“The cost of low interest rates are being ignored,” Ford said. “It is killing savers, elderly savers who are living on life savings that have been conservatively invested.”

The Fed is engineering one of the greatest wealth transfers in American history — from the working-class and middle-class to the rich. The stock market has never been higher. Wall Street is doing better than ever. Bankers are still getting their big bonuses. And the little guys with meager savings are watching their pathetic little nest eggs lose value as inflation exceeds the income they can generate.

The extraordinary thing is that Obama then turns around and castigates the economic system for inequalities in wealth — the very same inequalities that he and former Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke (it’s too early to pin any blame on Janet Yellen yet) did to aggravate. Rather than undo the harm he has inflicted, Obama ask Americans to entrust him with even more power to “help” the poor and downtrodden. What I find mind-boggling is that this is not the delusion of a single man — it’s that liberals and leftists have so uniformly and gullibly bought into the delusion. They have become apologists for the very evil, income inequality, that they decry.

I suppose that’s inevitable. The political class always gravitates to “solutions” that entail the accumulation of more power for the political class. In Virginia, liberals’ idea is to expand the Medicaid entitlement, paid for the federal government with borrowed money. Why not? It’s “free” money. But it’s really not. Every billion dollars borrowed by the federal government requires more financial repression and more wealth transfer from savers to favored classes of borrowers, the foremost of which is the U.S. government. The favored classes do not include the poor and middle-class who rack up credit card debt, typically charges around 13% to 15%.

Liberals prattle about “social justice” and lobby for distractions like a higher minimum wage (which raises pay for some and destroys jobs for others) while aiding and abetting the trickle-down economics that leaves America’s less well-off with crumbs. The hypocrisy is almost too much to bear.


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35 responses to “Trickle-Down Economics Revealed”

  1. LifeOnTheFallLine Avatar
    LifeOnTheFallLine

    You’re right, in the interest of fighting inflation and encouraging liquidity after the mortgage bubble burst there have been enormous transfers of wealth. In order to return balance the president should ask Congress to raise the capital gains tax and the income tax on the upper five percent of earners in order to fund programs that will have an outsize benefit on those who have been left behind these past years like infrastructure repair, expanded scholastic services like health clinics in public schools, etc. Then – with no wage increases in place – he should encourage the fed to let interest rates rise and let someone else worry about inflation.

    He should pitch it just like that and watch as sensible conservatives line up behind it. For a follow up he’ll pull a unicorn out of Harry Potter’s sorting hat.

    And if Boomer’s wanted better retirement security they should have voted for politicians more willing to protect pensions.

  2. Peter Galuszka Avatar
    Peter Galuszka

    There a number of factual and logical flaws in this post:
    (1) Income inequality actually started growing in the 1970s. It did not suddenly start whenObama was elected.
    (2) A great spurt in inequality came during the Reagan years with tax law changes.
    (3) the low interest and inflation policies of the Fed go back to Paul Volcker in the 1970s when he tried to reduce Carter-era high inflation. Fighting inflation has been the Job One at the Fed ever since.
    (4) Using low inflation and interest rates as a recession fighter goes back to the George W. regime, which also created TARP. It did not begin with Obama.
    (5) There is only so much influence a president has on what the Fed does, other than recommended the head.

    This article conflates and confuses many things. It is also a bit disingenuous because it fails to show that the strong stock market is because of the productivities and hard line economic policies that the author constantly supports in other pieces he writes. He also fails to note that one reason for the growing inequality is something over which the president has little control — recovering corporations are still hording cash, keeping spending very tight and paying little if any taxes (check out General Electric). Their lack of investment has kept many middle income workers in a permanent limbo of holding non permanent jobs to save costs.

    1. Wrong or irrelevant on every count. I don’t have much time right now but I’ll start…

      Peter: “(1) Income inequality actually started growing in the 1970s. It did not suddenly start when Obama was elected.”
      Jim: I never said income inequality started with Obama. I just said that Obama, after campaigning against income inequality, has made it a lot worse.

      Peter: “(2) A great spurt in inequality came during the Reagan years with tax law changes.”
      Jim: The reduced income tax rates affected after-tax income, not pre-tax income. Inequality is measured by pre-tax income. Additionally (I think I’m right on this but I’m not certain), this was the period in which new IRS rules redefined a lot of business/corporate income as personal income. Yes, reported income went up, but that was a statistical artifact of the IRS rules, not of the underlying economic reality.

      Peter: “(3) the low interest and inflation policies of the Fed go back to Paul Volcker in the 1970s when he tried to reduce Carter-era high inflation. Fighting inflation has been the Job One at the Fed ever since.”
      Jim: My understanding is that the Fed now pursues two goals: fighting inflation and stimulating job creation.

      Peter: “(4) Using low inflation and interest rates as a recession fighter goes back to the George W. regime, which also created TARP. It did not begin with Obama.”
      Jim: This time you’re right. But this is also irrelevant. I never implied that using interest rates as a recession fighter started with Obama. I said that the Fed policy that he has endorsed has negatively impacted income equality. I notice that you don’t dispute that fact.

      Peter: “(5) There is only so much influence a president has on what the Fed does, other than recommended the head.”
      Jim: Partly true. The Fed is autonomous. But the Fed also coordinates closely with Treasury and rarely acts in direct contravention of the president’s wishes. In this case, Obama is perfectly comfortable with Fed policy. But rather than blame Fed policy for growing inequality during his time in office, he blames Republicans. That is totally disingenuous.

      1. Ghost of Ted Dalton Avatar
        Ghost of Ted Dalton

        My problem with your argument is that the tools are out there for “the little guy.” It’s so easy to get digestable financial information and to make stock purchases for less than ten bucks nowadays.

        If you’d invested in a U.S. index fund tied to the Dow in 2009….you’d be up, what? 150%?

        In this day and age, that’s literally an $8 transaction. You, too, could have experienced the “wealth transfer” without being a billionaire.

        While I don’t know your financial situation (and frankly, I’m sure you don’t want me to know! ha ha), a lot of the people I hear making this argument against Fed policy are disgruntled Republicans. It wasn’t a “secret” that the market was massively undervalued in 2009. Warren Buffett even wrote a column in the WSJ advocating that the time was right to buy.

        But a lot of very ideological folks on the right were convinced that Obama was a Communist and let their ideology trump their financial sense. Thus, they refused to touch the market year after year even though it kept going up…..now, they find themselves losers in one of the biggest market bulls in history.

        I’m not a 1%er. But, I do know how to read the WSJ and financial statements. My net worth has more than doubled during the Obama years b/c even though I usually vote Republican (except for people like Cuccinelli and Jackson), I did not let my political beliefs defy my financial knowledge that value stocks such as XOM and JNJ were at joke valuations in 2008/9.

        I think plenty of “little guys” have made out well in the past 6 years even though they aren’t millionaires and billionaires, they were simply smart enough to accept some “risk” and look at the black and white on balance sheets and income statements of some of America’s best corporations.

        1. larryg Avatar

          so how do we reconcile the idea that – as the alleged result of QE there have been big winners for some in the stop market but not the “little guys” 401Ks nor the public employee pension funds?

          that’s the problem I have with the ideology – they take the same thing and then weave it into two almost opposite outcomes – and then blame the POTUS for it.

          it’s like a gigantic blather-fest.. i.e. the right wing echo melange .. that springs up on one right-wing website or FAUX news and then clones itself, replicates with the same almost-word-for-word argument across anything in print or web – broadcast out the wazoo.

          these things become like urban myths… Reagan had nothing to do with the Savings & Loan debacle… but the CRA “caused” the mortgage meltdown.

          when unemployment goes down for this POTUS, it’s because he’s “cooking the books”.. on and on… it’s like a storm of misinformation and disinformation….

          DJ is a software businessman I believe but perhaps should let him weigh in on your question.

        2. Sure, small investors have done well during the Obama stock market boom. I’m one of them. My portfolio has done great. But that doesn’t change the fact that half the population owns no stock at all, and even small investors like me (and presumably you) with assets measured in multiples of $100,000, not $1 million, have not benefited nearly as much as the 1%. No matter how you cut it, it’s the 1% that has benefited more than anyone from Quantitative Easing. QE has been an engine of wealth redistribution.

          1. larryg Avatar

            how come small investor Bacon has done well under QE but the Virginia Pension Fund has not?

            My understanding is that over 50 million people have 401(k)s.

            isn’t that more than the 1%?

          2. Ghost of Ted Dalton Avatar
            Ghost of Ted Dalton

            I’m most definitely a small investor! I’m not a billionaire nor a millionaire, but I hope to be!

            I get your point, but I still contend that it’s not as if this bull market was “closed” to small investors. There has been ample opportunity.

            Sure, those with the most equities have profited the most. I won’t disagree with you there. But when I hear “wealth transfer”, I think you involuntarily take from one to give to the other. And the original “one” can’t do anything about it ( a la taxation). I don’t think that’s the case. The original “one” could have easily made the rotation from cash, CDs, and bonds to equities. He just chose not to…..

            One side note: Can someone please explain investing in CDs? This seems like a relic to me. CDs are designed by banks to (hopefully) pay a rate of return less than the projected rate of inflation. So, they are designed to lose money vis a vis the inflation adjusted value of money. I know bonds are supposed to do the same thing, but bonds are traded on large open markets…thus their spreads can’t be as “easy” for corporations or gov’t as CD spreads are designed to be by banks.

  3. There are a lot of factors related to income inequality, including globalization, a breakdown of family structure, incompetent regulation designed more to protect incumbents than to protect the public interest, growth in government overhead and incompetent media that doesn’t understand much of what goes on in the world.

    1. LifeOnTheFallLine Avatar
      LifeOnTheFallLine

      You have cause and effect backwards regarding poverty and the breakdown of family structure.

  4. the biggest flaw to all of this is this statement:

    ” The irony is that the trickle-down economics is a label more aptly applied to the policies of President Barack Obama.”

    The POTUS is pretty much limited to what Congress is willing to do or not do as it controls the purse strings no matter what the POTUS proposes.

    so we have this huge contraction in our economy and in years past – no matter who the POTUS was – spending programs / stimulus was the conventional response.

    but this Congress believes that austerity was a better response.

    that is what has led to the weak recovery.

    This Congress has been fine watching the economy twist and turn in the wind, because they can then blame the POTUS.

    And oh, by the way – the debt TRIPLED under Ronald Reagan from the actions of Congress…who did what he proposed.

    just as the debt has ballooned under Obama – by the actions of Congress – primarily because the economy crashed and with it tax revenues.

    but as usual Jim Bacon also has it wrong or has a wrong-headed way of portraying the Feds Quantitative easing.

    How can it ” One group is the “millionaires and billionaires” who benefit from rising stock and bond prices” and another group, the “losers” be the State pension plans who also invest in stocks and bonds? –

    ” Fifteen years ago, for example, the Virginia pension system was fully funded. Today, even after major structural reforms, Virginia and its local governments still owe billions.”

    how can that be where one group benefits from the higher stocks/bonds and the other does not?

    this is an example of how the right portrays the same economic issue – two entirely different ways.

    and the problem is, much of the sound-bite gullible are easily convinced by such – just totally contradictory claims, they don’t even see the contradictions.

    i.e Obama has “helped” the rich and “hurt” others who have stocks and bonds – the state pension systems and individual people with IRAs.

    how can that be?

    it’s perfect reasonable in the indict Obama world but it lacks something in an honest portrayal.

  5. Obama’s embrace of radical environmentalism and hostility to oil has allowed speculators to make millions pushing oil and gas prices to very high levels historically, while harming many whose jobs and businesses would prosper more with lower energy prices. And then there is the matter of all those “alternative energy companies” aided by the feds and gone bankrupt.

    1. LifeOnTheFallLine Avatar
      LifeOnTheFallLine

      Is this same hostility the reason for the spike during the final year of the Bush administration?

      1. And the price of oil and gasoline had dropped significantly when Obama took office. It’s been up ever since. Money spent on gasoline is not available for other purposes.

  6. Les Schreiber Avatar
    Les Schreiber

    Welcome to econ 101.
    Obama doesn’t make monetary policy ,
    the Federal Reserve does. Unlike the European Central bank that has a single mandate which is to fight inflation,the fed operates under a dual mandate which is to keep inflation low ,their target is 2% and to achieve “full employment”.
    Following the recent crisis the fed employed some extraordinary policy measures ,known as QE to liquify the system to prevent a financial meltdown as happened in 1929.As the system became more liquid stocks and bonds did rise benefiting these holders of these assets. This has created what is known as “The Wealth Effect”.The theory states that as the prices of these assets rise holders feeling richer will increase spending. Depending on who you read this is estimated at between 1 and 4 percent.
    The fed has keep this policy longer than many would have liked because people like Paul Ryan and Eric Cantor have bought into the faux policy of austerity is the way to solve a recession and refused any real attempt a fiscal stimulus.
    The economic problems of late 1970’s and early 1980’s were totally different.
    The Oil Crisis and an overly loose monetary policy led to historic inflation. I remember buying short term paper when I was at AIG at rates that approached 20%.US government debt traded in the mid teens. To fight inflation ,the fed raised rates to historic highs. By lowering inflation the fed actually protected saves by protected the purchasing power of their nest eggs.
    Real incomes in the US have not grown since the 1970’s. The reasons for this are many as recent studies by the IMF and others have shown. Globalization ,poor education, rank among the causes .
    The American tax system does favor capital over labor. Low rates for dividends as well as the absurd “carried interest” technique that allows hedge funds to pay low rates are good examples.
    A recent article posted on that liberal “Huffington Post” was instructive. In the state of Mississippi,the most Republican state in America,almost 25% of the population has trouble paying for food every day.Welcome to Ryan/Cantor land.

    1. DJRippert Avatar
      DJRippert

      Here’s reality 101:

      Government in the United States consumes a larger percentage of GDP than at any time in history. More than at the peak of WWII. More than during the Great Depression when stimulus was credited with solving the depression.

      http://bit.ly/1kd9fVW

      “The fed has keep this policy longer than many would have liked because people like Paul Ryan and Eric Cantor have bought into the faux policy of austerity is the way to solve a recession and refused any real attempt a fiscal stimulus.”

      Liberal, dog whistle, political blather unsupported by the facts.

        1. DJRippert Avatar
          DJRippert

          Liberalism rule #6. When confronted with an uncomfortable fact, change the subject.

          However, LarryG raises rule #6 to an art form.

          In an argument over austerity LarryG brings up the debt. He cites Republicans as debt hikers.

          Guess what, LarryG – if Republicans are really debt hikers then they are anti-austerity.

          Focus. It’s not just for cameras anymore.

          1. I think you missed it DJ. You can have increasing debt as you cut taxes .. you can have increasing debt BECAUSE you cut taxes.

            you cannot boost military spending (nor entitlements) and cut taxes at the same time and not increase your debt.

            austerity as practiced by Conservatives in the US wants to cut taxes and entitlements but not military spending.

            but even that misses the more germane point with respect to austerity.

            if you ALREADY have debt from past spending and the economy has crashed and is threatening to go from a serious recession to a depression via liquidity trap what should you do?

            this is sorta like saying you lost your job but your roof is leaking badly so you cannot justify borrowing money to fix it so you don’t so the house loses all it’s value and becomes unlivable and you then have to live on the street… where your job chances drop even further.

            the point of spending in a bad recession is that you do have to add to future debt – and when the economy gets better, then you pay down that debt from increased revenues and higher taxes.

            but Bush took a balanced budget with a decent economy, some recessionary aspects to it – and he spent out the wazoo for two wars then the economy crashed and the GOP said, “we have this debt so we cannot afford more for stimulus”.

            isn’t that essentially what happened?

            you can’t get out of a recession with austerity – you just drive the economy further into a hole, a liquidity trap.

            that’s drives policy from stimulus that the GOP won’t approve to quantitative easing that also has negative impacts but is preferable to a second depression.

            The modern day GOP would gladly and stupidly repeat Hoovers mistakes.

    2. “Welcome to econ 101. Obama doesn’t make monetary policy.”

      C’mon, Les, you know as well as I that the “independent” Fed is independent only within limits. You also know that Obama has been fully supportive of Fed policy — note that I referred to the “low interest rate policy implemented by the Federal Reserve Board with the full support of the Obama administration — and hand picked Bernanke’s successor, Janet Yellen, who is cut from the same philosophical cloth.

      “Paul Ryan and Eric Cantor … refused any real attempt a fiscal stimulus.” Hah! Are you saying that a $1.4 trillion deficit, followed by another $1.4 trillion deficit, followed by two $1.3 trillion deficits and a $1.0 trillion deficit, and a deficit of more than half a trillion dollars in the fifth or sixth year of an economic expansion is not a “real attempt at fiscal stimulus?” Really?

  7. There are many problems with this article, but I’ll only address the fallacy of the statement:
    “The 1980s were a period of great prosperity in which all income groups and ethnicities shared.”

    Real US gdp growth of 36% during the 1980’s was far below that of the 40’s (73%), 50’s (51%) and 60’s (55%). It was similar to that of the 70’s (37%) and 90’s (37%). The 80’s only look good next to the 00’s, which had only 19% growth. So much for the “great prosperity” of the 1980’s.

    How broadly distributed was prosperity (income) in the 1980’s? The most concise measure is the Gini ratio. The higher the ratio, the more concentrated. The average Gini ratios: 70’s .399; 80’s .417, 90’s .448; 00’s .466. Gini ratios were not calculated by the Census Bureau before 1967.

    Growth in the 80’s was unremarkable and looks good only next to the 00’s. Inequality grew in the 80’s, continuing a trend that began in the 70’s and persists.

    1. Obviously, we have different recollections of the 1980s. I remember a decade that started with intractable stagflation (resulting from 1970s policies) that ended only with a severe recession. That was the price of getting the economy moving again. Reagan supported Volker’s monetary policy despite widespread wailing and gnashing of teeth on the left. Comparing “decades” the way you do is not helpful in any way. Once the Reagan recovery began, it was stronger than that of the 70s, 00s, or 10s and comparable to that of the 90s..

      As for the Gini coefficient, you, too (I believe — I’m willing to stand corrected), are ignoring the change in IRS rules that shifted earnings from corporate earnings to personal earnings.

      1. DJRippert Avatar
        DJRippert

        Jim Bacon is quite right and Keith is essentially wrong. The question is the definition of “the 80s”. Keith takes a very literal view. By that view Keith’s argument has some validity. Bacon takes a more generalized view. In my mind, Bacon’s view is more relevant.

        The 1980s did start out as a mess – thanks to the incompetent policies of the most liberal modern president prior to Obama.

        Jimmy Carter’s reign of terror was truly horrific.

        Unemployment was actually higher in the aftermath of the Carter meltdown that at any time during the so-called Great Recession. http://bit.ly/1haTBXy.

        The difference between then and now is that Reagan’s policies sparked a strong recovery while Obama’s policies have prolonged a Carter-esque stagnation.

        Meanwhile, the Obama-philes try to blame Congress for an austerity that can be found only in their active imaginations.

        Obama is on the brink of going down in history as one of the worst presidents in American history.

        1. re: ” Obama is on the brink of going down in history as one of the worst presidents in American history.”

          because he could not fix the mess that George Bush created in part because the GOP refused to do what they did under Reagan to rescue the economy?

          hahahahahahahah

          Obama will go down in history as the POTUS who could not get past the racism from the opposition starting with the birthers and continuing to sub-human mongrel… where the GOP not only does not condemn it – they just wink and cozy up to it.

          1. DJRippert Avatar
            DJRippert

            Please review the graph I supplied in my comment back to Les. During the Reagan Administration government spending constituted approximately 33% of the GDP. During the Obama Administration government spending constitutes approximately 37% of GDP.

            Your contention that anybody has prevented Obama from trying to spend his way to a recovery is quite simply absurd.

            Obama has presided over a government that has spent a higher percentage of the GDP than ever before. Higher than in the aftermath of the real great depression, higher than during the peak of World War II.

            The simple fact is that there has been no austerity. None whatsoever. That claim is a liberal dog whistle blown in an attempt to excuse the Obama Administration’s utterly failed attempt to spend its way to recovery.

          2. tell me who wrote the budget and passed it before it got to Obama.

            Obama can only sign it or veto it.

            The budget he got was the same budget that was written in the Bush years and continuing into his term except by then the economy had tanked.

            it was ALREADY in deficit before he said or advocated any thing. In fact it was George Bush who asked for the TARP not Obama.

            the question is – if you are beginning a term as president and the budget is already in deficit and the economy is in a deep recession that could turn into a depression –

            what do you do?

            do you refuse to use stimulus and insist on austerity ?

            what would ANY POTUS do in that situation whether they were D or R or Reagan?

            supply side economics does not work in recessions where unemployment high. It’s voodoo economics that presumes if you produce more goods and services more of them will be bought – even if the economy is in a near depression and massive unemployment is ongoing.

            who is going to buy increased goods and services (made possible by lowered taxes and regulations) when there is a recession and joblessness?

            you’re playing with words his DJ – words like “presided” instead of “directly responsible”.

            The one thing you CAN blame Obama for – was the one-time stimulus. The rest of the structural deficit was already baked into the budget from the Bush years.

            here is the truth – the chart that is missing here:

            http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/adding-to-the-deficit-bush-vs-obama/2012/01/31/gIQAQ0kFgQ_graphic.html

            according to your rules – any POTUS who inherits a deficit from a prior POTUS/Congress – he owns it .

            to be fair – Obama did not advocate cutting the deficit – but neither did Bush nor for that matter Reagan who tripled debt – who advocated himself to increase spending.

  8. kaylamorris Avatar
    kaylamorris

    “The 1980s were a period of great prosperity in which all income groups and ethnicities shared.”

    Ya right. Here’s a graph of median income vs. top 1% income. The 1980’s were the worst period for median and best for top 1%.

    http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/toppercentvsmedianhousehold.jpg

    I don’t get it, what you’re saying is not true.
    ____________

    Also, “The biggest beneficiary, of course, is the federal government, the world’s largest debtor, which saves on the order of $200 billion to $300 billion a year in interest payments on its $17 trillion debt”…?

    Think about it; the case is the opposite of what you’re saying.

    Most of the debt being paid off now was run up from Saint Reagan to Bush Jr. (10-30 year Treasury Bonds). For argument’s sake let’s say this averages 4% yield. Higher interest rates (and therfore inflation) would mean the government saves money. If inflation/IR is 2% now that means the feds are paying a real rate of return of 2%. If inflation/IRs were higher, like 5%, the gov would in effect be whitling down its debt in real terms. Does this makes sense? Lower interest rates are not saving the govt money at this point. If the debt were a real problem as opposed to a Norquistian legerdemain to cut public services the best thing to do would be to inflate it away. This is like econ 101 my friend. High school econ 101. Honestly what in the world is that $200-$300 billion coming from. There’s many of things you said are true about Obama but I honesly think you’re just hammering nails with many things you say.

    1. Kayla, I lived through the 1980s. I remember Reagan trying to cut federal spending. I remember Democratic Congresses declaring his budget “dead on arrival.” I remember Democrats accusing Reagan of wanting to dismember the federal government and launching a war on the poor. I love the revisionist history in which the Reagan-era deficits are laid entirely at the doorstep of Ronald Reagan.

      As for your chart showing the % income of the Top 1%, I believe (I may be wrong, so I’ll admit I’m not 100% certain) that that period coincides with a major change in the definition of reported income. Due to changes in the tax law, a lot of income that had been reported as business or corporate income was now reported as personal income. That surge is a statistical artifact of changing IRS rules, not the real distribution of wealth.

  9. Darrell Avatar

    Look if you are falling out of the middle class here then all ya gotta do is move to where the middle class matches your income. Say Panama, or Zimbabwe. Or you could move to a Southern state and pretend you are in Panama.

    Pull up a few live cams, your ghettoville studio apartment can become a Linz Am Rhine ferry boat or the African Savanna with lions that sound oddly like the guy next door when he beats his wife. Feel like jumping out of the window? Watch the Red Bull guy skydive through the sound barrier. That should change your outlook.

    Virtual Lifestyle. It’s the new way of living. Even in third world countries, like America.

  10. Peter Galuszka Avatar
    Peter Galuszka

    Obama “handpicked” Yellen? Shezam! That’s his job! And you know that the Fed is only technically independent? What you been smoking, boy?

    I say you don’t need Econ 101. You need the basic course.

    1. Peter, are you seriously saying that the Fed is immune to political pressure from Treasury and the White House? How naive are you?

      1. I was never a fan of Reagan – there were times that he sounded like he was not all there…. especially near the end of his term and I was never convinced he really knew as much about his own policies as his “advisers” did but he was death on the Soviets!

        But Reagan was also a compromiser. He advocated strongly for his beliefs but would negotiate at the end for half a loaf or better, rather than gridlock.

        supply-side economics is all the rage now with libertarians and conservatives but it seems to assume that there will always be an increasing aggregate demand to pursue the more cheaper produced goods and services (by lowering taxes and regulations).

        Keynesians think the other way around- that aggregate demand has to increase (by folks having more money to spend) in order for more goods and services to be created from the increased demand. You cannot create demand for goods/services by reducing taxes and regulations if there is no increased money supply. it’s the same money chasing cheaper goods and services.. not increased money.

        you can have zero taxes and zero regulations but if people are dirt poor and cannot afford hardly anything it won’t do you any good. It pretty much describes third world economies where people are so poor that the aggregate demand can only support so many businesses no matter how unregulated and un-taxed they are.

        you cannot sell more kumquats than there is demand for no matter what.

        and like so many other things that these folks believe in, when you ask for real-world examples of such supply-side economies, they get surly and respond that the reason there are no real good examples other than 3rd world is that government, all government, any government is evil and inherently predisposed to taxation and regulation and that it certain includes the most powerful economies on the planet – the OECD who could be “even better” if we got rid of regulation and taxation.

        and like with Mr. Reagan, it’s not really politics – it’s a virtual religion.

        Having said all of this, I fear similar harmful effects from quantitative easing as I did from taxes and rules that fostered crap mortgages.

        If the economy has a weak aggregate demand – there is less hiring, more unemployed, more chronic unemployed, more people who cannot afford basic necessities like health insurance so with an economy in such a weakened state – what justified higher valuations of companies in the stock market? Isn’t it basically old wealth competing against itself to maintain it’s perceived value to the wealthy who own it?

        you have to increase aggregate demand for the economy to get better. consumers, people without great wealth have to have more money to buy more things. the only way the non-wealthy get more money is by higher wages and/or more jobs.

        yes the poor have cell phones now but they did not get more money to buy them – they gave up spending on other things so they could get phones.

        as long as total aggregate demand is stagnant – there is no more money to buy more stuff – no matter how much taxes and regulations have been reduced on the producers.

        3rd world countries would love to have big companies locate there with virtually no taxes and regulations but they’d not sell there – there is no market because the poor in the 3rd world have very weak aggregate demand.

        the supply-siders think if you cut taxes and regulations the markets – increased aggregate demand will emerge.. but the Kenysians ask from where it will come if consumers do not have more money to buy with.

        it’s sort of a chicken/egg argument that in my mind – does not justify the religious fervor I see in supply-siders but it very much explains their view that you cut taxes and regulations and “starve the govt beast”.

  11. and here is another truth-telling chart about where the deficit came from:

    http://www.factandmyth.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/bush-vs-obama-debt.gif

    saying that a POTUS, “presided” over a deficit/debt says nothing about how that deficit got created.

    No POTUS can create a deficit. The best they can do if advocate for deficit spending and get Congress to agree to it.

    and for a deficit to CONTINUE – it takes that same Congress to either write a new budget or carry the old one forward with majority votes for Continuing Resolutions.

    Even if the POTUS argued against it – the only way he could stop it was by veto.

    and the only way he can increase it is by convincing Congress to do so.

  12. re: ” Please review the graph I supplied in my comment back to Les. During the Reagan Administration government spending constituted approximately 33% of the GDP. During the Obama Administration government spending constitutes approximately 37% of GDP.”

    let me help you here with your lack of understanding. these are CONGRESSIONAL budgets because ONLY Congress can decide spending. Look it up DJ but choose a reputable site.

    “Your contention that anybody has prevented Obama from trying to spend his way to a recovery is quite simply absurd.”

    his “spending” was what Congress approved and nothing more. what would you have the POTUS do? not spend what Congress authorized? Would you have him spend less for Defense than Congress authorized? what would you do?

    “Obama has presided over a government that has spent a higher percentage of the GDP than ever before. Higher than in the aftermath of the real great depression, higher than during the peak of World War II.”

    he has indeed – but “presided” does not mean “spent on his own” and that’s not an honest portrayal of the facts. The POTUS can only spend what Congress approves.

    “The simple fact is that there has been no austerity. None whatsoever. That claim is a liberal dog whistle blown in an attempt to excuse the Obama Administration’s utterly failed attempt to spend its way to recovery.”

    no matter how much you spend (or not), even if you are already in deficit – the issue is if the economy in recession – what do you do in response to it?

    used to be – both GOP and DEMs would do the same thing – stimulus.

    of late – the GOP has split and has rejected the idea of stimulus in response to a recession.

    The GOP now believes you have to cut spending, cut taxes and cut regulations during a recession and business will rebound by producing more goods and services as a result of lowered taxes and less regulations.

    the question is – if you do that why would business hire more people if the economy has tanked and demand for goods and services has decreased?

    why would unemployed people buy more goods and services even if they were cheaper?

    the stimulus advocates – essentially believe that – giving people money to spend and/or jobs – will then increase aggregate demand for goods and services which will then cause increased hiring to deliver more goods and services to meet increased demand.

    that was the stimulus. It hired a bunch of people to build more roads and it gave taxpayers a “Make Work Pay” credit … $400 for each taxpayer. The advocates expected the $400 to be spent, not saved.

    this is independent of whether you have a deficit – the purpose is to do something to bring the economy out of a downward spiral… to arrest and reverse it.

    it’s not like it’s never been done before. It’s been a typical response of both GOP and Dems in years past – and in countries around the world.

    the question is if you don’t do this in a recession – what do you do ? just cut spending further and risk the economy going into a liquidity trap?

    keep in mind that NONE of the above happens because the POTUS wants to do it. He has to convince Congress to do it and take whatever they do it – even if the amount of the stimulus is not enough to totally reverse a deep recession.

    Now.

    the issue is not whether or not stimulus works or not. I’ll grant you a opposing view.

    the question is do you choose to represent this in truth – the way it really is?

    or do you choose to portray it in a way that is not true?

    I vote for the truth. Be honest and admit that the POTUS does not make these decisions – the Congress does.

    what the POTUS – CAN DO – is encourage the Fed to do quantitative easing – and in this case the Fed – Bernanke and the the board that voted to do it – was appointed by Bush – not Obama.

    both the stimulus and the quantitative easing have downsides, no question about it. The stimulus creates deficit and debt and the QE distorts saving and investment.

    but my big complaint here is portraying the POTUS as having control over the budget, taxing and spending, which he does not.

    it’s repeated over and over on all the GOP and Conservative websites – and then people start saying it – like it’s the truth and at some point it’s hard to understand if people are truly that ignorant or they are also engaging in the same deceptions.

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