Alan Rickman as the Sheriff of Nottingham in “Robin Hood Prince of Thieves.” He was unaccountable, too.

by Jim McCarthy

The exploits of Robin Hood and his band of merry men in the cover of Sherwood Forest have been colored heroic as they engaged in a redistribution of wealth from one class of Englishmen to another. The Sheriff of Nottingham was a spoiler, though his mission was one of law and order as a minion of the king or royalty charged with maintaining peace and order while collecting taxes and rents (usually produce or farm animals) from the feudal estate and its serf residents. The sheriff (shire reeve) transplanted to the colonies morphed into an elective position and, in many instances to the present, is the sole and primary law enforcement officer in a jurisdiction.

The Virginia Sheriffs’ Association (VSA) counts 123 members responsible for the management of 8,000 to 9,000 deputies and staff. Most residents are familiar with the broad range of duties performed by sheriffs, from law enforcement to supervision of county and regional jails (with about 28,000 inmates), to service of process (over 3 million events), and security for city and county courts. Just over half of the sheriffs identify politically as independent; 29% as Republican; 15% as Democrat. Of the thirty city sheriffs, nine identify as independent, nine as Democrat, six as Republican, and six with no affiliation.

Whether a political party can represent a more appealing choice or prospect for enforcement of the law is debatable and likely irrelevant to voters. In the nation’s contemporary hyper-partisan environment, however, political intrusion into every electoral office has become the norm. At the end of 2019, the Loudoun County Board of Supervisors announced plans to create a county police department, in part it said, related to asserting civilian authority over the jurisdiction’s policing. The county’s sheriff proclaimed that the move was unnecessary because his office was held responsible and accountable every four years at election time. Besides, he offered, the proposal was a mere power grab by political opponents.

The VSA claims that it was the “driving force” behind legislation requiring a voter referendum for the creation of a police department because such stripped the sheriffs of law enforcement responsibilities. It also claims success for legislation requiring one deputy for each 1,500 residents, thereby ensuring staffing levels.

During 2019, the General Assembly adopted several firearms-control measures including a “red flag” law permitting seizure of weapons under court order where a threat to the possessor or others was shown. Three Virginia sheriffs publicly declared that they would not enforce such court orders, a view that was reinforced by a tidal wave of resolutions from local legislatures declaring their jurisdictions to be “Second Amendment” sanctuaries with many asserting a provision refraining from the expenditure of public funds for those purposes.
Breitbart News (11/24/2019) repeated a Washington Post piece quoting a sheriff:

My oath of office is to uphold the Constitution of the United States. He explained that he would not confiscate guns even under a judge’s order, if the law at the center of the judge’s ruling was unconstitutional. That’s what I hang my hat on.

Nationally, 1,459 of 2,144 jurisdictions adopted similar declarations with some experiencing similar sentiments from sheriffs (Colorado, Washington, New Mexico). The conflict in this regard may be compared analogously to the principle of civilian control of the military, a notion clearly challenged by remarks of the Loudoun sheriff opposing the proposal for a county police department:

I think the citizens need to know what this is exactly about and taking their right away to select their chief law enforcement officer and basically having an entire bureaucracy between them and the chief law enforcement officer who is actually going to be making the decisions . . . . On our Board of Supervisors, we have one person that has law enforcement experience, and what you are going to have is eight other board members—none of which have a shred of law enforcement experience—trying to tell a law enforcement agency what to do and how to do it.

This view of independence has been echoed by national voices in far more direct and challenging words. The website of the Constitutional Sheriffs and Peace Officers, a national advocacy organization, which claims membership of 300 of about 3,000 nationally, exhorts its purpose:

America needs to make a strong turn around to get back on the freedom track laid for us by our Founders. We believe it can’t be done from the top down, due to many factors, not the least of which is corruption and entrenched bureaucracies in high places. We must, and we can, accomplish this turn-around starting locally at the county level, and lower. The office of county sheriff is the last hope of making this happen, and we are witnessing great deeds of protection, service, and interposition across America by courageous sheriffs who only want to serve the people who elected them.

The necessity of experience and training for law enforcement officers is evident but in practice not required for oversight of public policy concerned with public safety. The declaration that sheriffs are the “last hope” of freedom is virtue signaling, detracting from shared civic responsibility within every jurisdiction.

Residents provide the bulk of funding for sheriff offices. The bulwark of qualified immunity, established by judicial rulings, has begun to be pierced, prompting insurers to insist that jurisdictions adopt policies modifying risk-taking by law enforcement such as high-speed chases and warrantless searches. The Breonna Taylor and George Floyd deaths produced settlements of $12 and $27 million respectively. Estimates of $3.2 billion over the past decade involving 40,000 incidents are reported – all of which costs are ultimately shouldered by taxpayers. No publicly-available data exist to distinguish the distribution of settlement amounts between sheriffs and police departments. While law enforcement officials protest the influence of insurers upon policing, the cost to the public is but one aspect of several factors posed to narrow the bandwidth of independence with respect to sheriffs.

Recently, the topic has been accorded some academic (intellectual?) cachet by the Clermont Institute, a California-based think tank now a MAGA foundry for Trumpian culture riven with luminaries like Larry Arnn, President of Hillsdale College and John Eastman. Slate (9/01/2022) reported on Clermont’s Sheriffs Fellowship project concluding:

They seem to be a key target of the movement because the office is already vulnerable to extremism and because sheriffs can enable other extremist actors like vigilantes and militias to wreak havoc on society. Claremont provides a historical and intellectual cover for selected sheriffs to continue a march into white Christian nationalism; for Claremont, the sheriffs are elected influencers who can push their message into the mainstream, far from the coterie of intellectual elites.

One of eight white male attendees at the first fellowship conference in November 2021 was the sheriff of Virginia’s Tazewell County. Commenting upon his experience at the conference, he offered, “We are facing movements across our Nation to take away punishments and any disciplinary actions from people committing crime.” On its face, the comment may read innocuously. In the context of the institute’s curriculum, the statement assumes a more overt political subtext. A sampling of the instructional topics conveys purposes that appear removed from traditional public safety concerns such as deputy recruitment and training:

+ The crisis of the New Left and Criminal Justice
+ Crisis of American Politics
+ Antifa Threat to the Constitution
+ Black Power and Identity Politics
+ Defeating Critical Race Theory

Civilian authority over the military is a well-established and ingrained ethos in the nation’s culture since George Washington first accepted Congress as the superior to the military force he commanded. While sheriffs may take pride in their historical function as shire reeves, the nation in which they serve is no longer a feudal jurisdiction. The rule of law and the boundaries of law enforcement are creatures of the citizenry. Qualified immunity, formula staff funding, union regulations, and partisan politics have combined with repeated instances of police-civilian clashes to become flash point barriers to reconciliation of the conflicts. Alignment on the part of the sheriffs with political institutions and defiant resolutions only promote further conflict, while criticism of civilian authority for lacking police experience chills constructive discussion. Worse, however, is the nascent trajectory of a small number of sheriffs employing partisan or ideological views to nullify laws, a deadly mix of oxymoronic substance.

That more than half of Virginia’s sheriffs identify electorally as independent is comforting but the signs of partisan shifts are troubling especially as the demands for more effective service and protection increase. The small few that have adopted public politicized stances is to be regarded as testimony to a stronger ethos of service and protection free of political association. However, with financial pressures mounting upon government resources, causing insurers to intrude upon both civilian and law enforcement prerogatives for reforms, public policy alternatives are increasingly defined by circumstance rather than choice in the public forum.

Failure or refusal to acknowledge the danger signals may steer jurisdictions to prefer police departments over elected sheriffs. Concurrently, political party participation further contributes to competing and, perhaps conflicting, concepts among policy alternatives thereby heightening attention upon the tradition of electoral preference for law enforcement.

Hamlet apprehended the quandary, “the rub,” to paraphrase: whether more dignity is shown by suffering the slings and arrows of fortune or by taking affirmative action against troubles to end them. A keen perception from the poet of Avon worth considering.

Jim McCarthy, a former New York attorney, lives in Northern Virginia.


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Comments

132 responses to “To Be Elected Or Not”

  1. James Wyatt Whitehead Avatar
    James Wyatt Whitehead

    Nottingham meets Little John.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acg6Xzzo8Fs

    1. One of the best Bugs Bunny cartoons ever, in my opinion.

  2. We saw how well the professionals handled the summer of love. Also look at the 12% closure rate of the Chicago cops.

    1. The way those riots were handled by unelected law enforcement “professionals” is the reason “progressives” want to do away with elected sheriffs. They want all communities to have that same level of police protection.

      1. James McCarthy Avatar
        James McCarthy

        You have reached a conclusion not in the article. Election of sheriffs is not opposed ; only the conflation of partisan politics or ideology with law enforcement.

        1. Oh. I finally get it. You oppose the political activism engaged in by big-city police chiefs. I oppose that as well.

          1. James McCarthy Avatar
            James McCarthy

            Not hip-hop reasoning versus your Twist moves. Keep trying. You may soon comprehend the gravamen of the discussion.

          2. On the contrary, I know exactly what you are driving at, and I am well aware of how important the issue is to our society.

          3. It’s how you know whether or if to put a donkey or elephant sticker next to the police benevolent society sticker on your back window.

  3. DJRippert Avatar

    Another long and verbose article from Mr. McCarthy. Since I genuinely want to understand the opinions of those who write on this blog, I have tried to parse the flowery prose and get down to the “brass tacks”.

    Here is my translation of McCarthyism into plain English:

    1. Sherriffs from England became the basis for sheriffs in America except for the fact that, in America, sheriffs are elected.
    2. In Virginia, sheriffs’ departments perform various duties with the various Sheriffs representing Democratic, Independent and Republican affiliations.
    3. In Loudoun County, there is a debate between the Board of Supervisors and the elected Sheriff regarding whether a county police department is necessary.
    4. The Virginia Sheriffs Association takes credit for legislation requiring county police forces be approved by referendum and for legislation mandating minimum staffing levels for law enforcement.
    5. In 2019 the General Assembly passed red flag laws. Three Virginia Sheriffs (out of 133?) said they would not enforce those laws.
    6. Nationally, 1,459 of 2,144 jurisdictions adopted similar laws and some sheriffs in those jurisdictions said they would not enforce such laws. McCarthy believes that this is analogous to rebuffing the principle of civilian control of the military. On a side note, there are 3,243 counties and 19,495 incorporated cities, towns and villages in the United States. Exactly where McCarthy finds 2,144 “jurisdictions” is mysterious.
    7. The Loudoun County Sheriff opposes the installation of a county police force believing that such a move would increase bureaucracy.
    8. McCarthy states his opinion as fact claiming that experience in law enforcement is unnecessary in order to oversee law enforcement.
    9. The Constitutional Sheriffs and Peace Officers, a national advocacy organization, claims membership of 300 of about 3,000 nationally (i.e., 10%).
    10 Constitutional Sheriffs and Peace Officers believes that bureaucracy and corruption are widespread (presumably in law enforcement) and Sheriffs represent a “last hope” for containing this bureaucracy and corruption.
    11. Sheriffs departments are supported by taxes and they incur financial judgements against those departments on the order of $3.2B per decade. On a side note, that is less than 10% of the cost of Joe Biden’s student debt forgiveness. Based on these judgements, insurers are insisting on reforms before they will insure law enforcement departments.
    12. McCarthy does not like the Clermont Institute.
    13. Slate does not like the Clermont Institute and contends that the Institute provides, ” … intellectual cover for selected sheriffs to continue a march into white Christian nationalism”. McCarthy provides neither a basis for Slate’s belief nor a link to the source article.
    14. One of eight attendees at a Clermont Institute meeting was a sheriff from a county in Virginia. Side note, McCarthy gratuitously point out that the eight people who met were all White males. McCarthy fails to make any further point on this matter.
    15. A sampling selected by McCarthy of the instructional pedagogy of the Institute contains areas which McCarthy apparently finds extreme, such as “Defeating Critical Race Theory”.
    16. Civilian control over the military is important.
    17. America is no longer a “feudal jurisdiction”. As a side note, McCarthy never makes the point that America was ever a feudal jurisdiction.
    18. There have been conflicts between citizens and law enforcement.
    19.Qualified immunity, formula staff funding, union regulations, and partisan politics are factors that impede the reduction of conflicts between law enforcement and citizens.
    20. “Alignment on the part of the sheriffs with political institutions and defiant resolutions only promotes further conflict while criticism of civilian authority for lacking police experience chills constructive discussion.” Side note, McCarthy is to be congratulated for penning a sentence that does not require significant deconstruction to understand.
    21. It is good that more than half of Virginia sheriffs consider themselves to be independent.
    22. The trend toward political affiliation of Virginia sheriffs is troubling. Side note, McCarthy provides no evidence of this supposed shift.
    23. The dangers McCarthy cites in the article may push jurisdictions to shift away from elected law enforcement leadership.
    24. Political differences (presumably between sheriffs and county boards) also puts pressure on the tradition of directly elected law enforcement leadership.
    25. Finally, McCarthy provides a quote from Shakespeare presumably illustrating that society can either continue to suffer from the issues around law enforcement or take action to resolve those issues.

    Copies of my McCarthy / English : English / McCarthy dictionary will be available soon.

    1. James McCarthy Avatar
      James McCarthy

      A++ review with only minor reservations. #8. Not every local governing body has members experienced in law enforcement as a requirement for election. #24. The political differences may emerge as partisan ones creating concern among sheriffs, local government, and the citizenry connecting to #23. #22. Despite a search, no historical data could be identified to compare sheriff political affiliations to that currently reported by VSA. Perhaps to be revealed in the dictionary.

      1. DJRippert Avatar

        As for #8, isn’t that the point? A sheriff reports to the people, the state constitution and the US Constitution. The Chief of Police reports to the Board of Supervisors. Why insert a bureaucratic level between the head of law enforcement and the people when that bureaucratic layer could well be composed of people with no law enforcement experience. The counter-argument is that candidates for sheriff have no requirement to possess law enforcement experience. I wonder though – how often that happens. I have been told that a justice on the US Supreme Court does not need to be a judge or a lawyer. However, from a practical perspective, it’s hard to imagine a non-lawyer ever getting appointed to the US Supreme Court.

        1. James McCarthy Avatar
          James McCarthy

          A sheriff reports to the people periodically whereas police are subject to a continuum of governance. Elected representatives are not required to possess particular skills or experience to oversee substantial enterprises. That may be a shortcoming but BOS folk are not elected b/c of experience in water or road management either. Nor are SCOTUS Justices elected. It is unlikely a BOS would select a police chief without relevant experience; nor a non-lawyer justice by the Senate.

          1. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            I believe the concept came up because of bipartisan concern that the Democratic candidate for sheriff had no law enforcement experience yet garnered a significant portion of the vote. This just highlighted the fact that Sheriff is by its nature a political position rather than a non-partisan public service/safety position. Personally, I would have rather they acted for that reason alone.

          2. James McCarthy Avatar
            James McCarthy

            The article notes the intrusion of partisan politics or ideology will infect an elective office no matter its nature or function.

    2. Wow, nice work!

      Is there any chance you could add a section to your dictionary that would translate McCarthyisms to logic or McCarthy fiction to fact, or are those those impossible tasks?

      1. James McCarthy Avatar
        James McCarthy

        If all that you are capable of is ad hom snark, you prove the hollowness of your rationale.

        1. Better stick to Silly Walks, logic and fact are not your strong suits.

          Please understand, I am commenting on your silly behavior, your very amusing Monty Python like silly walks, not your person. It’s not ad hominem at all. Quit doing the silly walks and I’ll quit laughing at them. I believe you can do it if you try.

  4. Eric the half a troll Avatar
    Eric the half a troll

    “The county’s sheriff proclaimed that the move was unnecessary because his office was held responsible and accountable every four years at election time.”

    What he was actually saying was I answer to absolutely no one between elections. He is unlikely to give up such power without a fight…

  5. Your “civilian authority over the military” analogy is invalid on its face. Sheriffs, deputies police commissioners and police officers are civilians, and are all already under civilian authority.

    Furthermore, you claim to be a democrat, someone who supports democracy, but as soon as voters elect a few sheriffs you don’t like you’re ready to throw democracy out the window in the guise of “civilian authority” over policing. What you really want, though, is for politicians to control policing. Directly electing our chief law enforcement officers is the very definition of citizen authority over policing.

    Finally, the mythical Sheriff of Nottingham was appointed, not elected. Relative to the United States (and Virginia) he would be more analogous to a chief of police than to a sheriff.

    1. Eric the half a troll Avatar
      Eric the half a troll

      “Furthermore, you claim to be a democrat, someone who supports democracy, but as soon as voters elect a few sheriffs you don’t like you’re ready to throw democracy out the window in the guise of “civilian authority” over policing.”

      And how is it not democratic that the duly elected BOS opt to make the changes in government (or just consider the changes) they were elected to make?

      1. And how is it not democratic that the duly elected BOS opt to make the changes in government (or just consider the changes) they were elected to make?

        Technically, representative democracy is more of a a republican principle than a democratic one. Typically, democrats want to widen the scope of direct elections, not narrow them. You are obviously a different kind of democrat.

        1. James McCarthy Avatar
          James McCarthy

          Nah!! Representative democracy is a variant of direct democracy. Can’t be “more of a principle” because it is the principle like the direct election of US senators.

          1. James McCarthy Avatar
            James McCarthy

            Not an unfair representation of the distinction. The issue with which the debate over the terms relates to the extent to which the shared characteristics coincide. The US increased that commonality with, among a few, the declaration of the non-existence of slavery; women’s and 18 year old suffrage; direct election of Senators; Voting Rights Act. We now await the new Electoral Count Act creating more security for electoral results from states.

          2. Matt Adams Avatar

            I don’t honestly know where you’re trying to go with your comment. I was more taking exception with your statement that “Representative democracy is a variant of direct democracy”. It’s is not, they are variants of democracy.

          3. James McCarthy Avatar
            James McCarthy

            Direct democracy is not feasible or perhaps even possible for a large population. Representative democracy, as noted, can be improved mostly by extending participation to the most folks possible. The potential and historical fact of limiting participation is the core struggle to improvement. For example, both the US Senate and Electoral College have become choke points to the popular will.

          4. “both the US Senate and Electoral College have become choke points to the popular will.”

            Wrong again silly walk boy. Both the Senate and Electoral College were adopted to protect the people in smaller and less populous states from mobs in large states. Without that accommodation the Constitution would not have been ratified and we would not have a country.

            So thank you for another of Jim McCarthy’s silly walks. Keep up the good work.

          5. James McCarthy Avatar
            James McCarthy

            No challenge was raised about the reason for their creation. Read carefully: “have become” not created as choke points.

          6. They are what they have been from the adoption of our constitution. They function today just as they were adopted to prevent mob rule.

            Your unsupported declaration that they have become choke points is confirmation that they work as designed to protect the people. Thank you for illustrating the point.

          7. James McCarthy Avatar
            James McCarthy

            The sole incident of mob rule recently occurred on Jan 6 which was not prevented by either the Senate or EC. If mob rule, in your view, is represented by liberalism, you misappreciate the nature of political dynamics. If by mob rule you mean the popular vote for President as decisive, you are correct. If you accept the power of a single Senator to block legislation, you are again correct. Neither USS or EC perform the function for which they were intended. If mob rule might actualize today, neither, as Jan 6 threatened, would be effective. Fear of mob rule can be inferred to have dissipated with the grant of suffrage to women, slaves, 18 year olds, immigrants who become citizens, and the direct election of senators.

          8. Jan 6th was a riot despised by all. No one has suggested it “ruled”. To suggest it was actual “mob rule” is a superlative Jim McCarthy silly walk. Thumbs up for another inspired creation.

            The rest of your made up fantasies deserve recognition as a group Jim McCarthy silly walk. Congrats, even though your last inference makes me wonder what you’ve been smoking. Keep up the good work.

          9. James McCarthy Avatar
            James McCarthy

            Sounds like your capacity for adult dialogue is exhausted causing reliance upon snark. If Jan 6 was not an attempt at mob rule of a type feared by the Founding Fathers, then you are again correct. The vote of 147 GOP Congress folk to reject the electoral results of two states in an effort to run end around the Electoral Count Act seems to have had a mob character. “Attempt,” Lefty, not actual.

          10. Matt Adams Avatar

            It’s almost like the Founders wished that only legislation that could garner support from all (since we didn’t have parties until the 1800’s) would be passed.

            I thought this was common knowledge, apparently, it’s not.

          11. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
            Dick Hall-Sizemore

            That might have been why they were adopted, but there is, and never was, a provision in the Constitution that any legislation would be subject to needing a 3/5 majority to pass in the Senate.

          12. Except the legislation of constitutional amendments, of course.

          13. James McCarthy Avatar
            James McCarthy

            The 3/5 majority is related to legislation in the Senate. 2/3 in both houses for constitutional amendments.

          14. You are, of course, correct. I can offer no excuse for my error.

            I don’t now how to post an “embarrassed/ sheepish” emoji but feel free to picture one right here.

          15. James McCarthy Avatar
            James McCarthy

            Not a fatal error. Intense discussion often causes slips.

          16. Thumbs up for your straight up acknowledgement of error. McCarthy could learn from your example. It would save him a lot of brow beating and silly walk awards.

            I personally find when I have crow to eat that mustard and ketchup help it go down easier.

            There is freedom and integrity in acknowledging error and moving on rather than defending the indefensible and staying mired in error.

            Nicely done.

          17. James McCarthy Avatar
            James McCarthy

            As usual you are right, correct. Your comments are ex cathedra, always spot on with the fullness of your knowledge, omniscience. Humbling.

          18. I appreciate the compliments, but you’re a little over the top. I put my pants on one leg at a time just like every one else.

            It’s another of Jim McCarthy’s silly walks, and I’m flattered you’ve incorporated me in the production.

          19. That’s the filibuster, adopted by the Senate as a rule in the 18oughts pursuant to the constitutional provision that the legislature may largely set its own procedures. The rule has changed over time in both operation and majority required.

            Majorities inevitably change and attempts to eliminate the filibuster frequently come home to roost. That most recently occurred with the Dem elimination of the filibuster for most judicial appointments in 2013. The Repubs subsequently returned the favor by eliminating it for supreme court appointments when they had the majority. Comes under the heading of be careful what you wish for.

          20. James McCarthy Avatar
            James McCarthy

            Surely, mob rule is not the equivalent of majority rule. Nor is the power of an individual senator to block legislation or withhold a vote on presidential appointments. Nor the power of a majority leader to fashion a rule to eliminate a judicial appointment by the president. Tyranny by the minority is more pernicious than the canard about tyranny of the majority.

          21. We are certainly fortunate you were not in the drivers seat for the constitutional convention.

            However, we are blessed with your presence here in the present. The world would be a less mirthful place without Jim McCarthy’s silly walks. They may be your ticket to immortality.

          22. James McCarthy Avatar
            James McCarthy

            Yes, you have exhausted your mojo. Glad to lend some life to your reading. BTW, snark gets boring.

          23. You are so fortunate you have Jim McCarthy’s silly walks to relieve your boredom, as are we all. Tks again.

          24. Matt Adams Avatar

            “Surely, mob rule is not the equivalent of majority rule”

            Yes, yes it is. A Pure Democracy is mob rule and something our Founders explicitly sought to avoid.

          25. James McCarthy Avatar
            James McCarthy

            I assume you mean a direct democracy. Are you saying a vote by the majority is, by definition, mob rule? Can such a vote take place in a civil orderly manner?

          26. Matt Adams Avatar

            “James McCarthy a minute ago
            I assume you mean a direct democracy. Are you saying a vote by the majority is, by definition, mob rule? Can such a vote take place in a civil orderly manner?”

            I’m not saying anything, I’m repeating James Madison, Alexander Hamilton and John Jay. On a truth that became evident to them, such so as they avoided it and a representative republic was chosen.

          27. James McCarthy Avatar
            James McCarthy

            What is your opinion? Most are aware of the concerns of the Founders. Even in colonial times, majority vote was respected. Jan 6 threatened even representative democracy including the Electoral College safety valve against mob rule.

          28. Matt Adams Avatar

            “Jan 6 threatened even representative democracy including the Electoral College safety valve against mob rule.”

            It did not, despite your gnashing of teeth. The riot that took place on Jan 6th, while despicable wasn’t the clear and present danger you and your fellows would lead people to believe.

            “Most are aware of the concerns of the Founders. Even in colonial times, majority vote was respected.”

            This is also highly ironic given 2000 and 2016.

          29. James McCarthy Avatar
            James McCarthy

            Had the rioters and the votes to reject the electoral returns of a sufficient number of states succeeded, mob rule would have ruled. One might argue that that failure meant it was not necessary for Congress to amend the Electoral Count Act from the 1800s. Why is the Congress wasting its time? How much of a clear and present danger is necessary to establish that interruption or frustration of the peaceful transfer of power occurred? How did representative democracy and the Electoral College prevent mob rule as feared by the Founders? The Electoral Count Act was passed in 1877 as a result of the election of R B Hayes who lost the popular vote. The irony, if it exists, is that the Dem won the popular vote in 1877, , 2000, and 2016.

          30. Matt Adams Avatar

            “Had the rioters and the votes to reject the electoral returns of a sufficient number of states succeeded, mob rule would have ruled.”

            No, not even in the slightest and you’re speaking about something that didn’t happen.

            “One might argue that that failure meant it was not necessary for Congress to amend the Electoral Count Act from the 1800s. Why is the Congress wasting its time?”

            Because it’s Congress, they don’t Govern they campaign. Which is clearly working for the core base they hope to drum up support for (i.e. you).

            “How much of a clear and present danger is necessary to establish that interruption or frustration of the peaceful transfer of power occurred?”

            You’re an alleged Lawyer, you should recognize the legal phrase and definition of clear and present danger.

            “The speech must impose a threat that a substantive evil might follow, and second, the threat is a real, imminent threat.”

            “How did representative democracy and the Electoral College prevent mob rule as feared by the Founders?”

            I honestly have no idea how you are even asking this question with a straight face, it’s nonsensical.

            “The irony, if it exists, is that the Dem won the popular vote in 1877, , 2000, and 2016.”

            The popular vote is not the barometer to win the Presidency and it never has been. The popular vote is mob rule, but seeing how you don’t understand this concept at this juncture in your life, I don’t believe you ever will. Much like you stumping for the NPV, it’s Unconstitutional.

            You also might not want to bring up 1877, it doesn’t bode well for you, your party or your gnashing of teeth over January 6th. If you want to discuss violence we can discuss the Red Shirts.

          31. James McCarthy Avatar
            James McCarthy

            The Founders wrote in the Electoral College as a barrier to mob rule. It was seriously threatened in the events of Jan 6. The NPV is not unconstitutional unless so adjudicated. No claim is made that the popular vote determines Presidential outcome. Your assertion that the popular vote is mob rule vitiates virtually every election result in 50 states. Is there a criterion acceptable for the election of state and local officials that you can share with the blog? Nine Republicans not running for re-election voted for the amendments to the Electoral Count Act. What base are they exciting? Please attempt to answer how the Electoral College and US Senate protected the nation from mob rule at any time but Jan 6 specifically. Mob rule failed on Jan 6; we were fortunate. Simple denial and deflection now may not be successful next time. There is no difficulty in raising the 1877 election. Dems lost the Presidency on a dumb deal. But the Dem had won the popular vote.

          32. Matt Adams Avatar

            “The Founders wrote in the Electoral College as a barrier to mob rule. It was seriously threatened in the events of Jan 6. ”

            Clearly you don’t know what “mob rule” means and no, no it wasn’t.

            Yes, the NPV is Unconstitutional, it violates the Presidential Election Clause Article II.

            “Your assertion that the popular vote is mob rule vitiates virtually every election result in 50 states.”

            False.

            “Is there a criterion acceptable for the election of state and local officials that you can share with the blog?”

            State and Local officials =/= President, whose election is laid out in Article II.

            “Nine Republicans not running for re-election voted for the amendments to the Electoral Count Act.”

            Your point? Is this an appeal to popularity?

            “Please attempt to answer how the Electoral College and US Senate protected the nation from mob rule at any time but Jan 6 specifically.”

            Again, that wasn’t “mob rule”.

            “Mob rule failed on Jan 6; we were fortunate. Simple denial and deflection now may not be successful next time.”

            Appeal to Ignorance.

            “There is no difficulty in raising the 1877 election. Dems lost the Presidency on a dumb deal. But the Dem had won the popular vote.”

            Says someone without a hint of irony, clearly you don’t know much about the election 1877 and of the Red Shirts.

          33. James McCarthy Avatar
            James McCarthy

            Perhaps you could explain mob rule and distinguish it if possible from majority rule. If as you asserted majority rule = mob rule, then virtually all elections and referenda approved by majority vote = mob rule. You asserted Congress folk support amendment of the ECA because they are campaigning. Nine Republicans who supported are not candidates. Electing the P and VP by popular vote requires compromise or replacement of the EC. NPV is an option.

          34. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            Perhaps if I have to explain it to you, you shouldn’t be discussing it.

            Strawman.

            Again, NPV violates Article II. It’s an attempted end around as it’s backers cannot use the proper process of an amendment.

        2. Eric the half a troll Avatar
          Eric the half a troll

          Small “d” democrat vs small “r” republican seems pretty academic to me. If the people support a BOS that wishes to shift (or consider shifting) to a law enforcement system that is not administered by a partisan politician (which is what our current sheriff is) then who are you to tell them it is un-democratic…?

          1. James C. Sherlock Avatar
            James C. Sherlock

            You assume Supervisors are not partisan politicians. Quaint notion.

            But they are definitely not constitutional officers.

            The Constitution of Virginia Art. VII Sect. 4 is the controlling authority for the election of sheriffs.

          2. James McCarthy Avatar
            James McCarthy

            We all know that. Your assumption that I assume BOS folk are not political is incorrect. To repeat, the election of sheriffs is not opposed nor the issue in the article. Election of chief law enforcement officials based upon partisan politics or ideology is the concern.

          3. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            I do not believe anything that was being considered by Loudoun’s BOS (they dropped the issue without acting, btw) was inconsistent with the Constitution of Virginia.

            Ps: Don’t tell me what I assume. I simply prefer 9 politicians administering law enforcement to a single one. Better representation.

          4. James C. Sherlock Avatar
            James C. Sherlock

            You assume Supervisors are not partisan politicians. Quaint notion.

            But they are definitely not constitutional officers.

            The Constitution of Virginia Art. VII Sect. 4 is the controlling authority for the election of sheriffs.

          5. Don’t get me wrong, I have no problem with people voting away their rights if that is what they want to do. However, I am glad that a referendum is required instead of a BOS being able to simply take the decision.

            That way the people have to actively request to be under the protection of unelected law enforcement officials who are not accountable to the public.

          6. James McCarthy Avatar
            James McCarthy

            Upon what popular motion did the people act to determine the election of sheriffs?

          7. Virginia’s elected “Constitutional Officers”, a group that includes Sheriffs (others were added subsequently), date to Virginia’s Constitution which was passed June 29, 1776. Perhaps it is not obvious to you, but that is why they are quaintly called “Constitutional Officers”.

            The adoption of that constitution establishing self governance and independence from rule by the royal colonial governor perhaps qualifies as a “popular motion”.

          8. “Popular motion”? You’ve lost me there, sir.

          9. James McCarthy Avatar
            James McCarthy

            When did the people vote for the election of sheriffs?

          10. When did the people vote for the election of sheriffs?

            The last time we ratified a state constitution. 1971, I think.

            Then there was the time before that, 1902.
            And of course there were major amendments in 1928, 1945 and 1956, none of which did away with elected sheriffs.

            The voters also ratified constitutions with provisions for elected sheriffs in 1870, 1864, 1851 and 1830.

          11. When did the people vote for the election of sheriffs?

            The last time we ratified a state constitution. 1971, I think.

            Then there was the time before that, 1902.
            And of course there were major amendments in 1928, 1945 and 1956, none of which did away with elected sheriffs.

            The voters also ratified constitutions with provisions for elected sheriffs in 1870, 1864, 1851 and 1830.

          12. James McCarthy Avatar
            James McCarthy

            You favor a popular referendum for the creation of a police department as an “active” expression of the people to have unelected law enforcement. Now, you have come around to my point that subsequent VA constitutions were ratified by popular vote. The election of sheriffs was never explicitly the subject of a popular vote. Their election is thus implicit in those subsequent votes after 1776 when the office was made constitutional which, as others noted, was not elective until 1851. Whether the population prefers elected sheriffs expressing partisan political or ideological views remains open. The analogy to a non- political military under civilian authority stands.

          13. Virginia’s elected “Constitutional Officers”, a group that includes Sheriffs (others were added subsequently), date to Virginia’s Constitution which was passed June 29, 1776. Perhaps it is not obvious to you, but that is why they are quaintly called “Constitutional Officers”.

            The adoption of that constitution establishing self governance and independence from rule by the royal colonial governor perhaps qualifies as a “popular motion”.

          14. James McCarthy Avatar
            James McCarthy

            According to virginiaplaces.com, the 1776 constitution was not submitted to the population for ratification. The article notes the Sheriffs Assn claims credit for legislation requiring a referendum for creation of a police department. As the article noted, election or appointment of chief law enforcement officials is irrelevant to the constituency. Partisan politics and ideology ought to be of concern.

          15. Oh oh, another Jim McCarthy silly walk. Thank you so much for bringing some merriment to my day. That is so thoughtful of you. Your command of blather is exquisite.

            Your question I was responding directly to was “Upon what popular motion did the people act to determine the election of sheriffs?”

            The answer is “The Virginia Constitution”. While you may not consider that a “popular motion” we in Virginia have looked to it as the foundation of Virginia’s self government for approaching 250 years.

            The fine print on Sheriffs is that from 1776-1851 Sheriffs were appointed from sitting magistrates. Virginia’s Sheriffs have been elected since 1851.

          16. Oh oh, another Jim McCarthy silly walk. Thank you so much for bringing some merriment to my day. That is so thoughtful of you. Your command of blather is exquisite.

            Your question I was responding directly to was “Upon what popular motion did the people act to determine the election of sheriffs?”

            The answer is “The Virginia Constitution”. While you may not consider that a “popular motion” we in Virginia have looked to it as the foundation of Virginia’s self government for approaching 250 years.

            The fine print on Sheriffs is that from 1776-1851 Sheriffs were appointed from sitting magistrates. Virginia’s Sheriffs have been elected since 1851.

          17. James McCarthy Avatar
            James McCarthy

            You initially supported a comment that asserted support for a referendum requirement to create a police department. My inquiry was directed to question what popular vote/referendum instituted election of sheriffs. As I have repeated, I’m not opposed to the election of sheriffs.

          18. James McCarthy Avatar
            James McCarthy

            You initially supported a comment that asserted support for a referendum requirement to create a police department. My inquiry was directed to question what popular vote/referendum instituted election of sheriffs. As I have repeated, I’m not opposed to the election of sheriffs.

          19. Boy you’re slow on the uptake today.

            Once again the answer to your inquiry is the “Virginia Constitution” and “Virginia Constitutional Officers”.

            My upvote on a prior comment (not a comment of yours) is unrelated to my direct response to your question. That question was: “Upon what popular motion did the people act to determine the election of sheriffs?”

            This is the 3rd time I have explained this to you. I understand that “constitution” is a long 4 syllable word and may be beyond the vocabulary of a New York lawyer. But please at least try to comprehend.

          20. James McCarthy Avatar
            James McCarthy

            I comprehend that the historical record does not substantiate a popular vote in VA for the election of sheriffs. That sheriffs are defined or codified as constitutional officers is not the equivalent a of popular vote for their election. Election of law enforcement officers based upon partisan politics or ideology is the issue.

          21. The Virginia Constitution of 1851 established the election of sheriffs and other constitutional officers. That constitution was ratified by the voters of the Commonwealth of Virginia.

            Your made up assumption that sheriff’s election are partisan politics is phony. Some sheriffs are undoubtedly partisan, others are not. Elections are for sheriff, not political party.

          22. James McCarthy Avatar
            James McCarthy

            Never colored all sheriff elections as political partisanship, only that some signs and evidence emerging indicating that possibility and a question about its desirability. The balance of your comment is a non sequitur. Are you saying political parties are unnecessary in sheriff elections? If so, I would agree.

          23. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            Actually “popular motion” is not really a relevant term. The term used by Wayne was “referendum”. I understood James question… perhaps this clarifies it for you… 🤷‍♂️

          24. Actually “popular motion” is not really a relevant term.

            As is the case with so much of McCarthy’s silly rhetoric.

          25. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            And yet the rest of us were able to figure out what he was asking… it was only lost on you…

          26. Oh, I thought maybe he was referring to the hip-hop style of dancing…

          27. Or with the loco-motion which was also popular.

          28. Matt Adams Avatar

            Electric Slide?

          29. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
            Dick Hall-Sizemore

            Nope. Here is the provision of the 1776 Constitution relating to sheriffs:

            “The Sheriffs and Coroners shall be nominated by the respective Courts, approved by the Governor, with the advice of the Privy Council, and
            commissioned by the Governor.”

            https://encyclopediavirginia.org/entries/the-constitution-of-virginia-1776/

          30. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
            Dick Hall-Sizemore

            Nope. Here is the provision of the 1776 Constitution relating to sheriffs:

            “The Sheriffs and Coroners shall be nominated by the respective Courts, approved by the Governor, with the advice of the Privy Council, and
            commissioned by the Governor.”

            https://encyclopediavirginia.org/entries/the-constitution-of-virginia-1776/

          31. James McCarthy Avatar
            James McCarthy

            Lefty knows the election of sheriffs commenced subsequently in 1851 (he cites).

      2. And how is it not democratic that the duly elected BOS opt to make the changes in government (or just consider the changes) they were elected to make?

        Technically, representative democracy is more of a a republican principle than a democratic one. Typically, democrats want to widen the scope of direct elections, not narrow them. You are obviously a different kind of democrat.

      1. James McCarthy Avatar
        James McCarthy

        Elect ‘em all, the wrong and the right, and the small, bless them all; there’ll be no commotion this side of the notion, bless them all.

    2. James McCarthy Avatar
      James McCarthy

      Never said Nottingham was elected, but noted he was a minion of the king. The article does not oppose election of sheriffs, only points out some possible conflicts with electing law enforcement when and where politics or ideology intervene. Analogies are not necessarily equations, merely, well, analogies. Police chiefs, as a rule, are not elected and hopefully trained professionals equal to that of trained military. If you propose to elect all heads of local law enforcement, that’s another prospect.

      1. Right. The article does not oppose election of sheriffs, it just uses lib-splaining to bitch about it and attempt to blow holes in its validity.

        1. James McCarthy Avatar
          James McCarthy

          Ugh!! BTW, what is the validity quality of electing sheriffs compared to police departments created by local government?

          1. James C. Sherlock Avatar
            James C. Sherlock

            The Constitution of Virginia Art. VII Sect. 4

          2. James McCarthy Avatar
            James McCarthy

            Your point??

          3. James C. Sherlock Avatar
            James C. Sherlock

            Sheriffs in Virginia are constitutional officers.

          4. Exactly, constitutional officers.

            He has no clue, and refuses to get one. I have explained it to him 3 times below. Dunno how to get it through his head. If you get an inspiration on how to do it I’d be pleased to lend a hand.

          5. James McCarthy Avatar
            James McCarthy

            Neither of you has answered the question posed three times. Constitutional officers does not equal creation by popular vote.

          6. Are you suggesting that Virginia’s Constitution is illegitimate, that it does not represent the will of the people of the Commonwealth as to how they are governed?

            If so that is an epic Jim McCarthy’s silly unconstitutional constitution walk. You have out done yourself. It may be your own personal best.

          7. James McCarthy Avatar
            James McCarthy

            Your reading is improving. No suggestion as you infer. Only that the election of sheriff in the 1776 constitution you cited was not ratified by the people. Election of sheriffs may in fact be the implicit will of the people as subsequent constitutions have been ratified. If that is the will of the people, the articles questions whether the will of the people desire sheriffs who espouse partisan political or ideological views as law enforcement principles.

          8. The Virginia Constitution of 1776 was adopted by a convention created, and elected, by the people of Virginia for exactly that purpose.

            Subsequent constitutions and amendments have been adopted by vote of the people of Virginia. Your notion that Virginia sheriffs are not elected subsequent to the will of the people is idiocy.

            There is nothing “implicit” about the will of the people to elect sheriffs. It is explicit and it is the will of the people regardless of the silly questions you strive to apply.

            I greatly appreciate it insane lengths to which you are willing to distort reality in order to create more Jim McCarthy’s silly walks. However, you would be well advised to observe some limits lest you fall into satire of your own silly walks.

          9. The Virginia Constitution of 1776 was adopted by a convention created, and elected, by the people of Virginia for exactly that purpose.

            Subsequent constitutions and amendments have been adopted by vote of the people of Virginia. Your notion that Virginia sheriffs are not elected subsequent to the will of the people is idiocy.

            There is nothing “implicit” about the will of the people to elect sheriffs. It is explicit and it is the will of the people regardless of the silly questions you strive to apply.

            I greatly appreciate it insane lengths to which you are willing to distort reality in order to create more Jim McCarthy’s silly walks. However, you would be well advised to observe some limits lest you fall into satire of your own silly walks.

          10. James McCarthy Avatar
            James McCarthy

            As you state, the 1776 convention was a body of delegates elected by the people, I.e., by a representative democracy. That body wrote a prescription for the appointment of sheriffs which, according to you perdured until 1851 when they became elective officers. Some successive constitutions (1902) were ratified by the people complete with the provision for elective sheriffs. It may be said that the provision is the will of the people but not specifically as the explicit requirement for a referendum to create a police department.

          11. James McCarthy Avatar
            James McCarthy

            So???

          12. Wow. Maybe I should start “down-voting” your comments to me…

            Nah, that would be extremely petty and childish.

            By the way, in the past I have actually upvoted a couple of your comments (even though I disagreed with them) just because I thought you made a good argument. To each his own, I guess.

          13. James McCarthy Avatar
            James McCarthy

            Nope! Down and upvoting is an opinion on an opinion blog. Sometimes extreme language fails to contribute to the expression of an opinion. What is the validity quality which was deemed to blow holes?

          14. Sometimes you’re funny.

          15. The other day both Jim “Silly Walks” McCarthy and Eric the half a troll shy of a full load were both down voting me. It made my day and was a sure sign I was doing well. We takes our props where we gets them.

          16. James McCarthy Avatar
            James McCarthy

            Could have been signs how far off base you were.

          17. Could be, but not when they’re coming from you silly walk boy. From you they’re a gold plated marker I’ve got it right. Thank you so much for the reinforcement.

          18. James McCarthy Avatar
            James McCarthy

            As long as you know you got it right, the blog is at peace. Snark rules.

          19. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            Bothered him enough for him to note and comment on it…🤷‍♂️

          20. I take my perks where I get them. It only seemed polite to credit you and Jim “Silly Walks” where credit was due.

            Many thanks to you both.

          21. James McCarthy Avatar
            James McCarthy

            Without mojo, such comments are juvenile. Thanx.

          22. Matt Adams Avatar

            Eric has downvoted a comment I made about my wife having a miscarriage.

            He’s a party sycophant through and through and incapable of having an adult conversation.

          23. Eric the half a troll short of a full load and Jim “silly walks” McCarthy make quite a pair.

  6. walter smith Avatar
    walter smith

    I thought this was pretty good until it got to the point where he objected to the agenda of the Tazewell sheriff. If he was offended about a sheriff learning about those topics, then why not be offended by all the training and topics targeting Moms, parents, Trump voters, etc? Why a sanctuary for guns (an enumerated right) = bad; but sanctuary cities (as created voter replacement and virtue signaling) = good?
    Given the eye opening last few years, anything not consolidating power seems like a good practice to me. We need more freedom in the Country, in the States, and within the States. Please idiot representatives everywhere, quit trying to make everything one size fits all. We will do far better with that freedom…but you just can’t control or grift off of it. Do it for us…as a “servant” like you are supposed to be.

    1. James McCarthy Avatar
      James McCarthy

      The training program appeared by the topics to be less about learning and more about persuasion as the Slate article characterized the project. It was clearly not the agenda of the Tazewell sheriff. This was not only a targeting but a paid fellowship, different in quality and substance from material generally directed at lay audiences which you find objectionable. . Second Amendment sanctuaries are not, by definition, bad; but law enforcement refusal to enforce court orders issued under such legislation is bad. While I prefer to avoid such discussion in moral terms,, I did so to parallel your thoughts. Hope this distinction helps.

      1. walter smith Avatar
        walter smith

        I get it. I would have resigned as a general counsel if told to enforce the Covid vax mandate. There are tough calls in life. For me that would have been an illegal order.

        1. James McCarthy Avatar
          James McCarthy

          Resign if you were elected to the office? Illegal order if pursuant to legislation? Ought sheriffs resign if unwilling to enforce court order? Another “rub” for Hamlet.

        2. James McCarthy Avatar
          James McCarthy

          Resign if you were elected to the office? Illegal order if pursuant to legislation? Ought sheriffs resign if unwilling to enforce court order? Another “rub” for Hamlet.

          1. walter smith Avatar
            walter smith

            Talking about an illegal order for me as GC. Resign? Insist on being arrested? Haven’t thought through all the sheriff permutations. But if order was illegal, not merely wrong for which legal process was available. Sometimes civil disobedience is a duty. Why “good” people should have power. Less and less true as we drop boundaries and society pays the price.

          2. James McCarthy Avatar
            James McCarthy

            Assume you hold an elective office and determine you will not enforce a court order made pursuant to a statute. The issue applies to all not just sheriffs. Resign? Disobey even if you are oath bound?

          3. walter smith Avatar
            walter smith

            Let’s take the FBI raid on the Catholic pro life guy recently. He has done raids. He knows who has not been raided previously. He knows this makes no sense. I think he has a duty to blow the whistle. To try to countermand. To try to stop. To not participate. To quit. To make it public.
            A doc ordered to do abortion or trans and it is against his religious principles – a sane world allows that. Same with the cake baker.
            As a sheriff, not knowing all the ramifications of the job and the inter workings, I can’t give you an answer. Following orders was not a defense at Nuremberg.
            In the Bible, the apostles said they would follow God, not the Pharisees. If given an unlawful order, I would disobey and be public. As a GC, I think I would get whistleblower for public policy purposes, but it would create a difficult situation.
            So if I am a sheriff given an order that is so violative of law that it violates my conscience, I make noise.
            People on the Left used to love people standing up against “the Man.” Now that you are in charge, you want total obedience. You are the pigs in Animal Farm and really don’t have enough self reflection to see that?
            Good with bankrupting a florist? A baker? A father losing his job because he doesn’t want the experimental shot? But you celebrate fake whistleblowers like Vindmann and Eric Chiamarella and liars like McCabe and Brennan and Fang Fang Swalwell and look past obvious corruption like the Bidens’ and wonder why the Normals are pissed?
            You like applying your views to an immoral law, which isn’t immoral – immigration – and forcing immorality on people who faithfully disagree with things like LGBTQ. Totalitarian. Proving your human frailty.

          4. James McCarthy Avatar
            James McCarthy

            Oh my!! I thought the questions were simple enough. As a Normal sheriff would you resign after refusing to enforce a lawful court order pursuant to a statute? Yes or no.

          5. walter smith Avatar
            walter smith

            Are you a Fed? Are you trying to entrap me as a DVE?
            What’s your answer to the simple question?
            You supposedly passed a Bar exam. Facts and circumstances…

          6. James McCarthy Avatar
            James McCarthy

            I would resign from elective office were I of the belief that a court order I was by oath obligated to enforce was illegal. Simple enough?

          7. walter smith Avatar
            walter smith

            I might try to get the order revoked. Approach a higher authority. Someone else in the government. Go to the press. Quit. But I would not carry out an order if it was wrong, but I might try many ways to correct the situation first. Facts and circumstances. I lived through real situations.

          8. James McCarthy Avatar
            James McCarthy

            There now. That wasn’t so difficult. Unsure how one might approach a higher authority in enforcing a red flag order. Any recourse might be too late. Even resignation could result in fatal consequences.

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