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The New Normal: COVID Ain’t Going Away

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by

James A. Bacon
in

Number of COVID deaths in Virginia. Source: Virginia Department of Health

by James A. Bacon

The number of confirmed COVID-19 cases is surging in Virginia, driving continued controversy over mask and vaccination mandates. As has been the case throughout the 18 months of the epidemic here, the media is focusing on the number of cases, which undeniably has increased sharply. The seven-day moving average is up to 1,850, a third of the December-January peak.

Hospitalizations have risen, too, with the seven-day moving average now exceeding 40 per day and showing no sign of leveling off. The good news (so far) is that, as seen in the graph above, deaths have nudged only a little higher. Perhaps the greatest under-reported story of the pandemic is how good hospitals and doctors have gotten at treating the virus.

Here’s what we’re not measuring on a daily basis: suicides, drug overdoses and other tragedies stemming from the shutdowns in response to COVID. Life is full of tradeoffs, and so is public health policy.

Meanwhile, I’m picking up on an increasingly widespread view that we will never “defeat” COVID-19. The received wisdom is changing in several ways.

First, we’re going to have to learn to live with the virus. The virus will continue circulating even among people who have gotten the vaccine or developed natural immunities from previous exposure. The shutdown measures of 2020 are economically, fiscally, and, for many, psychologically unsustainable. Insofar as Blacks and Hispanics are affected more adversely, shutdowns are, by the disparate-impact logic prevailing in many quarters today, racist.

Second, everyone is going to get the virus sooner or later. If you haven’t gotten it yet, though, you’ll likely fare a lot better if you’ve been vaccinated. So, unless you have natural immunities already, wise up and get vaccinated.

Third, living with the virus means getting vaccine boosters. We now know that vaccine efficacy declines over time. It’s not two-and-done. It’s two-and-come-back-for-a-booster-in-a-year. Get used to the idea. Unless…

Fourth — and I realize this is heresy, but the idea is gaining respectability — if you get the virus, you will develop antibodies that will confer protection that proves longer lasting than the vaccines. If everyone is going to get the virus eventually, it stands to reason that everyone will develop natural resistance sooner or later.

It is astonishing to me that the scientific establishment hasn’t given more serious attention to how powerful and lasting this immunity is. It is impossible to pursue rational public health policy without getting a firm handle on this basic knowledge.

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57 responses to “The New Normal: COVID Ain’t Going Away”

  1. Eric the half a troll Avatar
    Eric the half a troll

    As to item #4: “In today’s MMWR, a study of COVID-19 infections in Kentucky among people who were previously infected with SAR-CoV-2 shows that unvaccinated individuals are more than twice as likely to be reinfected with COVID-19 than those who were fully vaccinated after initially contracting the virus. These data further indicate that COVID-19 vaccines offer better protection than natural immunity alone and that vaccines, even after prior infection, help prevent reinfections.”

    https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/s0806-vaccination-protection.html

    Further, you seem to be contending that it is more beneficial from a public health standpoint to wait until the unvaccinated population gets sick and acquires natural immunity rather than expediting the process through vaccinations. This approach not only is reckless in that additional people will surely get seriously ill and die from Covid in the process and it provides an unvaccinated population readymade for virus mutations to gestate but it also increases the risk of additional government, business and economic impacts that you point to as ancillary public health impacts of the pandemic.

    Your continued promotion of so-called natural immunity over vaccination itself acts to support the delusions of the anti-vaxers and undermines the best tool we have to date in our public health toolbox to battle this pandemic. It is not “heresy”, it is simply irresponsible.

    1. Publius Avatar
      Publius

      Full troll – I think he said we don’t know. I think – my opinion – natural immunity will prove better than the vax. Cuz it’s not a vax. It is a therapeutic. And we don’t KNOW how effective it is, nor do we know it’s long term efficacy or if there will be other unintended consequences. Does the world end for a cold? No. Viruses virus. The concentration on “cases” is a fear tactic and has successfully terrified many people to the point of irrationality. Life has risks. No more driving. No more alcohol. No more cheesecake. No more weed (which our illustrious leaders legalized, even though it is known to hurt brain development of under 25 year olds – let’s get upset about that!). Or, we could care that abortion is actually killing a human. But no, people who doubt the CDC, which has done much to deserve doubt, are murderers!

      1. Eric the half a troll Avatar
        Eric the half a troll

        “I think he said we don’t know.”

        Not what he said…

        “…but the idea is gaining respectability — if you get the virus, you will develop antibodies that will confer protection that proves longer lasting than the vaccines”

        Actually, the studies are finding the vaccine to be more effective than “natural” immunity. But you continue with your post to perpetuate the Conservative desire to undermine the Covid vaccines and public health.

        Thanks for driving the point home for me.

        1. Publius Avatar
          Publius

          Gaining respectability is not certainty. We don’t know. But you can choose to live in fear all you want. And you can believe liars all you want. Remember get vaxed and peace and harmony and the lion lays down with the lamb?
          What happened to that certainty from our betters?
          How is Dr. Fauci’s AIDS vax going?
          Have we ever created a vax for a virus? How come we have colds and flu every year?
          Why did we need to do something entirely different for this flu?
          Why were we even funding gain of function research?
          Since you and Larry and Nancy are such believers in SCIENCE! (science is a process, not a religion), have you seen the study that thinks all those clear shields were counterproductive? Can you produce a study that shows masks actually work FOR COVID?
          Cost benefit analysis is different for everybody because everybody is different. Maybe we should let them make their own decisions. Liberty worked for a long time. Communism doesn’t.

          1. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            “Have we ever created a vax for a virus?”

            Ummm… mumps, measles, rubella, smallpox, chickenpox…

            Yep, we certainly have…. quite successfully…

            I don’t live in fear at all… I got vaccinated. I would like this pandemic to be over though and I don’t appreciate Conservative efforts to extend it.

          2. Publius Avatar
            Publius

            What a laugh! The Left is extending it – fear lets the Left grab power. Now we are ruled by pandemic exception. There are hundreds of cold/flu viruses. That’s why they haven’t been eliminated – and they mutate. Learning to live with it now is the best way, like we did prior to Covid. You want it to end? Quit living in fear. You’re vaxed – aren’t you protected? Don’t you believe in SCIENCE! (Larry might get mad at you)

          3. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            I am very well protected, even if the Delta variant breaks through my vaccine, my worst case scenario is a bad cold. That may not be true for my 94 year old mother but she is far tougher than the likes of you. You, on the other hand flaunt your attempts to damage America’s public health. You have created the conditions which perpetuate the pandemic. You hype ineffective snake oil while undermining the only thing that actually has been working to end it. Your latest snake oil is horse medicine, charlatan. You are putting more Americans into the hospital and literally killing kids at this point. Now you say America just need to tough it out and learn to live with it. Typical Conservative. This demonstrates exactly why not a single one of you should ever be trusted with public office ever again.

          4. Publius Avatar
            Publius

            You are murdering people with Leftist fear-mongering and creeping totalitarianism. How is that? Your mother should get vaxed…if she chooses to. Most people choose to. What do you not understand about that?
            Do you know how many States have vaccine requirements? I believe it is 44 and all of them have medical and religious exemptions. Virginia did not have a vax requirement for colleges until 1986. And, from 1986 until now, for approved, long standing vaxes, all you had to do was claim the exemption…for things like mumps and measles…and the world didn’t end.
            Get a grip.

            I’m killing kids? Wow. How many kids have died from Covid? Am I killing them by advocating for freedom? Have you noticed me saying don’t get vaccinated? Are you so terrified you can’t understand that I am not arguing about whether to get the Covid shot (it is not a vax) or not?

            And just for when the FDA rush approves it (which makes me somewhat question the scientific process (how come it took 10 years before? Why so quick this time? Truly improvement in the process? Or politics?)), I will still say people have the right to refuse it – medical and religious exemptions, and, if the right case ever gets to the Court, for medical/my body, my choice/privacy reasons, an exemption on those grounds will be “created” (and I don’t like the Court creating things, but given abortion, that’s where we are)
            Now man up and try to accept that some people won’t do what you want.

          5. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            My mother is vaccinated, ‘dejo…. You are putting her life in jeopardy by your continuing to undermine the vaccine and encouraging people to just skip it.

            Yes, Mkayla Robinson is your responsibility as is every child who has to suffer through a pandemic still active in their school. The blood is on your hands. You continue to undermine the vaccine – even now. You have no soul.

          6. Publius Avatar
            Publius

            Man. I didn’t know I killed Mkayla Robinson. I am really sorry for that. But I’ll own killing her when you own the hundred million last century for Marxism…

          7. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            Your crusade has directly led to the death of this child (among others). You are indeed culpable whether you own it or not is unimportant. Conservatives never take responsibility for their actions. That’s the way they roll.

          8. Publius Avatar
            Publius

            You’re embarrassing yourself.
            My crusade? You mean citing the Constitution and insisting that people have the right to choose, which is consistent with all of US history prior to COVID? Yeah, I’m a jihadi…

          9. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            You have not cited the Constitution once in this entire thread. You have argued vehemently that we should do nothing about Covid (treat it like we do a cold) and have argued against the vaccination and the CDC. When challenged you run away to “people have the right to choose” and claim consistency with US history. The approach being applied to the Covid vaccine is completely consistent with US history. Yes, you are on a crusade but, as usual for Conservatives, you refuse to take responsibility for your actions.

          10. Publius Avatar
            Publius

            I hadn’t cited the Constitution because I was too busy trying to kill Melissa Joan Hart on the way back from Mississippi and the killing of Makayla Robinson. Meanwhile, someone drowned yesterday and where were you? A car wreck death and the curve hadn’t been fixed…where were you? A cancer death here, a heart attack there….oh, yeah, how many people got killed last night in Democrat hellhole cities? But you care! So much!
            You are too emotional with an irrational fear to think. You cannot mandate any vaccine, much less the COVID experimental shot. Yet, most people choose to get vaccinated. Are you incapable of understanding the distinction? If it troubles you so, please go live in a dictatorship along with all your other totalitarians and maybe we can save America from becoming a Marxist hellhole from sea to sea like all Democrat cities.

          11. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            “You cannot mandate any vaccine, much less the COVID experimental shot.”

            Case in point of your continuing efforts to undermine the so-called “experimental” vaccine. As of Monday, that claim is formally baseless (really it has been baseless for quite some time).

            As to your “mandate” contention, please point to any “mandate” that differs from any other vaccine “mandate”. Again, a Conservative made up argument you run to in a lame attempt to avoid responsibility for your actions which, yes, are now killing people.

          12. Publius Avatar
            Publius

            Dude. Get a life. Even after the currently illegal mandate gets some legitimization by removing EUA status (and there are plenty of questions there which I will go through), it will still be illegal. The CDC is not a legislature. CDC “guidance” is not the force of law. Schools and employers do not have the authority to implement “guidance” of unelected bureaucrats. So let’s say our truly noble leaders decide to get off their rear ends or to remove their heads from their rear ends, as the case may be, and pass a Covid shot mandate. Then, to be consistent with all historical norms, there would be medical and religious exemptions. On top of that, due to medical, historical and constitutional norms, all medical systems have informed consent language INCLUDING THE RIGHT TO DIE.
            We have been living in a time of arbitrary, contradictory, non-scientific lawlessness, which our illustrious elites don’t believe applies to them. They believe in using law as a political weapon.
            Get vaxed if you want. Wear a mask if you want. I am pretty sure there are a number of people on this site who have been vaxed AND agree with my position. Drop the hysteria and try persuasion, but I can tell you, the more you talk down to people, the more likely they will resist. It’s human nature. Being a jerk tends to make people close off…just saying.
            Now I think I’ll go out and try to kill a few more people spreading the dangerous idea of opposing illegality! Danger, danger everywhere.

          13. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            I thought it was the CDC/FDA that issued the initial standards for certifying vaccines. Did we trust them then to set the initial standards? Do we not trust the same folks now to modify standards based on new information?

            It’s like we trusted them before, but not now?

          14. Publius Avatar
            Publius

            Larry – it’s not like the government apparatus has done a lot to instill trust recently. Remember Lois Lerner? Remember 4 years of Russia? That wasn’t a threat to democracy, even though lies, but questioning 2020 is treason? Remember 2 weeks to flatten the curve? Mask/don’t mask/double mask/get vaxed and we’re all free on July 4?
            Do you remember when the gays hated Fauci? Just like HCQ and Ivermectin now, back then he was all over the map on AIDS, spreading fear (to the point married people were scared of sex, but many potential cheaters were scared straight!), and he allocated lots of money looking for a vaccine. Meanwhile, just like now, doctors had discovered that Bactrim prevented the severely ill AIDS patient from dying from pneumonia. Fauci suppressed it. It is estimated 17,000 died from his delay.
            Meanwhile, our illustrious government took years and years to approve drugs. Did it need improvement? No doubt. So Trump kicked them in the butt and sped things up and we got the Covid vax in record time. But this quick? Have they really done all the necessary testing? Do they really know with certainty? The mRNA is new… The VAERS has 20 (?) years worth of adverse reactions… If you want people to believe you, it helps to not have a history of lying or incompetence…

          15. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            “Even after the currently illegal mandate…”

            Actually, schools do have full legal authority to implement vaccination mandates and everyone has the appropriate medical and religious exemptions. So, no, these mandates are far from illegal and are keeping with historical norms. The Covid vaccine does also include informed consent language. Nothing new here. You simply wish to further undermine perfectly legitimate vaccinating efforts and are perpetuating and exacerbating the pandemic in the process. You don’t have to go anywhere to kill anyone. You are doing fine at that effort from right where you are.

          16. Publius Avatar
            Publius

            Full troll – you do not know what you are saying. Mark Herring’s opinion is wrong. Obviously wrong. So wrong, anybody not a leftist political hack can see it – he does sleight of hand in 2 ways – first, he says there is no federal guidance “specifically” relating to colleges and universities. That’s a very careful lie. The federal statute for EUA specifically says “accept or refuse.” Second, he said that schools could mandate an “approved” vaccine. Another half-truth – the Covid vaxes are presently not approved and the VA Statute does not list Covid. It actually refers to the AFHA. Even the AFHA does not say mandate (because it is aware of medical ethics). And the way to do this would be for our illustrious leaders (you know, Gov Blackface and the delegates and senators) to pass a law. THEN, you still get to EUA and medical ethics. Informed consent means the ability to say NO. I guess rape is OK if you say beforehand the sexual act you intend to perform? I mean, you informed the victim, right? So, get it not EUA, pass a law, and then provide medical and religious exemptions. What do you not understand? And please, don’t play lawyer – you don’t know what you are talking about. But, I guess we now know you approve of rape under your informed consent definition – not a totalitarian…just a guy who really cares!
            Are you going to Makayla’s funeral? Did you know she needed an inhaler for something? Will you be suing the hospital for sending her home? Were the parents negligent? Or did Dr. St. Fau(x)ci kill her by squashing HCQ and Ivermectin? You know, instead of sending her home, crossing your fingers and hoping she gets over it, using Dr. Marek’s or Dr. Zelenko’s aggressive treatment protocols with treatments that cost pennies? Maybe you Big Government types killed her with lemming-like adherence to Dr. St. Fau(x)ci and his “experts” in the government apparati as opposed to actual doctors, treating and saving actual patients, through good old American ingenuity…

          17. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            I would never claim to be a lawyer, but I’ll take the AG’s opinion over yours any day of the week. What are your credentials? A blog commenter with the undeniable urge to hawk snake oil cures like HCQ and Ivermectin? Tell you what, I’ll stop playing lawyer when you stop playing “Doctor”, Doc…

          18. Publius Avatar
            Publius

            I haven’t said anything about the non-vax vax. It may work. It may not. It may have unknown effects, maybe not. Natural immunity may be better, maybe not. My point, which seems to escape you, is and has been that the mandate is illegal. Then assuming they actually do the things to make a legal mandate, there should continue to be religious and medical exemptions. And finally, if pressed, if it gets to the Supreme Court, a mandate would likely fall on medical/privacy/my body my choice grounds. Not that I agree with it…I didn’t do Roe v Wade and all the progeny, but if the Court preserves Roe, the mandates fall. If not, then Roe is at risk…and should be, but that is another story for another day… And my opinion is better than Kurtis Blow’s…

          19. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            Based on the suits to date, it appears that the SCOTUS has little interest in the issue as long as there are exemptions… which is what AG Herring recommended . Again, his opinion has more weight than yours, Doc. You are nobody – except in your own mind.

          20. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            There does seem to be a distinction among Conservatives between getting the vaccine to protect yourself versus getting the vaccine to help protect others.

            That seems to be the cut on the masks and social distancing also.

          21. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            Exactly, but that is the Conservative mindset. Always put self above others… always…

          22. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            I don’t know if I’d say that about ALL conservatives, but it does appear to me to be a theme among Conservatives who have gotten vaccinated as even after they are vaccinated, at least some still defend those who do not want to be vaccinated on the grounds that it’s “their body, their choice” separate and apart from whether one would get vaccinated to help keep it from spreading to others.

            You see this with the masks and social distancing.

            They don’t want lockdowns, but at the same time they seem to oppose/disbelieve masking/social distancing measures to reduce spread.

            So, at least some of them want everything open including schools but whether to get vaccinated or use masks is a personal and optonal “right” they can choose not to do.

            It’s inexplicable to me but perhaps this is one of those fundamental differences between progressives and conservatives.

          23. Publius Avatar
            Publius

            https://abc7chicago.com/44-shot-7-fatally-in-chicago-weekend-gun-violence/10969050/
            Since I killed Makayla…
            I guess you caused all that damage in Chicago because Black Lives Matter, amirite?
            You know… to comply with Truth in Advertising…or as you Leftists like to say to suppress “misinformation” (d. a pejorative term used by totalitarians to silence ideas the totalitarian disagrees with or finds counter to the totalitarian narrative that day, which must be suppressed, even if true in fact) maybe BLM should be called (Some) Black Lives Matter or Black Lives Matter (When Useful to the Totalitarian Narrative). I think the shorter one is catchier, but the latter one is closer to the truth. How about you?

          24. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            Nope, not on my hands. I have never advocated against gun control… you OTOH…..

          25. Publius Avatar
            Publius

            Seriously…you are paid by Soros, right? Or are you an AI bot mindlessly regurgitating the Leftist talking points du jour? How come in a city with very strict gun control laws so many murders happen, while in areas with higher ownership of guns and less restrictions, less “gun violence” occurs? Do they illegally sell more dangerous guns in Chicago? Do those guns have a mind of their own? Why won’t the criminal element obey the laws?

          26. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            “Altogether, there are 441 federally licensed dealers in suburban Cook County and the five collar counties, according to the latest ATF data. Most of these suburban shops, officials say, are law-abiding businesses that operate responsibly. But a small percentage—fewer than 1 percent, the city says—are responsible for nearly half of all the firearms used in crimes in Chicago.”

            Btw, there is a reason there are 441 licensed dealers in suburban Chicago… straw purchasers… they are certainly “law-abiding businesses” but they know a sweet deal when they see one!

          27. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            “Btw, there is a reason there are 441 licensed dealers in suburban Chicago… straw purchasers… they are certainly “law-abiding businesses” but they know a sweet deal when they see one!”

            Defamation, much?

          28. Publius Avatar
            Publius

            You know there are straw purchasers on Midlothian Turnpike across from the police station? But you notice human agency is still required to make the gun do bad things?
            When I was on a federal grand jury for 18 months (you know, Troll, cuz I know nothing about law so it could only be through something like that), one of the areas was drug dealers. At that time Church Hill and Blackwell made Richmond one of the highest murder rates in the country and it was the drug dealers. One case had a straw purchaser buy 18 guns for $8,000 at that Midlo place. The dealer gave the dude something like some free drugs. The gun shop filled out some stupid federal form for multiple purchase and mailed it in and 6-8 weeks later, the ATF responded. Even then I was wondering why isn’t there a buzzer or some bat signal to come in right then for an obvious drug sale. Maybe they have improved. When I bought my gun (to kill people other than Makayla…just so much to do!), it took forever to get past the clearance – I had to come back the next day, and all the other paperwork took forever. I doubt the licensed dealers are the real problem. The problem is criminals. Murder is already illegal. Stealing is illegal. Drunk driving is illegal. And yet it happens…Why don’t we outlaw obesity? Or stupidity? Or illegitimacy?

          29. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            As someone pointed out to me recently, Virginia is a a significant source of gun purchases for weapons used in DC. Just like Cook County is for Chicago. I wonder why that is….? Might it be related to gun regulations…?

          30. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            That is false, you are only as protected as your immune system makes you. The notion that you only get cold like symptoms while probable isn’t 100%.

            “Typical Conservative. This demonstrates exactly why not a single one of you should ever be trusted with public office ever again.”

            Careful your fascist is showing.

        2. Nancy Naive Avatar
          Nancy Naive

          He “thinks” a lot.

    2. Matt Adams Avatar
      Matt Adams

      You’re slow to the table halfwit. Larry posted that earlier this week, y’all failed to read the caveat at the bottom. Well you should’ve read it as you already down-voted it like the mindless f’ you are.

      “The findings in this report are subject to at least five limitations. First, reinfection was not confirmed through whole genome sequencing, which would be necessary to definitively prove that the reinfection was caused from a distinct virus relative to the first infection. Although in some cases the repeat positive test could be indicative of prolonged viral shedding or failure to clear the initial viral infection (9), given the time between initial and subsequent positive molecular tests among participants in this study, reinfection is the most likely explanation. Second, persons who have been vaccinated are possibly less likely to get tested. Therefore, the association of reinfection and lack of vaccination might be overestimated. Third, vaccine doses administered at federal or out-of-state sites are not typically entered in KYIR, so vaccination data are possibly missing for some persons in these analyses. In addition, inconsistencies in name and date of birth between KYIR and NEDSS might limit ability to match the two databases. Because case investigations include questions regarding vaccination, and KYIR might be updated during the case investigation process, vaccination data might be more likely to be missing for controls. Thus, the OR might be even more favorable for vaccination. Fourth, although case-patients and controls were matched based on age, sex, and date of initial infection, other unknown confounders might be present. Finally, this is a retrospective study design using data from a single state during a 2-month period; therefore, these findings cannot be used to infer causation. Additional prospective studies with larger populations are warranted to support these findings.”

      So before lecturing others and sounding high and mighty you should understand what you read and realize you’re parroting disinformation.

      1. Eric the half a troll Avatar
        Eric the half a troll

        And, yet, the authors stand behind their findings as valid still. Womp, womp…

        1. Matt Adams Avatar
          Matt Adams

          Minus the fact that the caveat I just provided was written by the author’s stating they don’t know and cannot say conclusively.

          I suppose in your world ( the one where you think chickenpox and shingles are the same disease) it matters.

          You should refrain from talking science when you’re illiterate in the subject.

  2. Eric the half a troll Avatar
    Eric the half a troll

    Btw… https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/us-fda-aims-give-full-nod-pfizers-covid-19-vaccine-monday-new-york-times-2021-08-20/

    Monday Pfizer becomes fully approved.

    1. Nancy Naive Avatar
      Nancy Naive

      Up like $2 after hours.

  3. LarrytheG Avatar
    LarrytheG

    I had posted the Kentucky study the other day also and it went right by …. some folks want to believe what they want to believe and that’s just it.

    JAB says the virus will be with us for a while as if that some sort of new revelation that we didn’t really understand until now.

    Measles, Polio and Smallpox are STILL with us also – and we see it from folks who dont get vaccinated.

    In that regard, yes COVID will be with us but it’s impact on us won’t be much different than these other infectious diseases IF WE GET VACCINATED like we have for these other diseases.

    It ought not be that big a deal to basically do what we have always done with contagious diseases and as Public Health experts have always advised.

    Just look at what has happened to us. Imagine if, today, we encountered Polio or Smallpox and reacted this way.

    1. Nancy Naive Avatar
      Nancy Naive

      “A Tennessee conservative talk-radio host who voiced skepticism about the COVID-19 vaccine has died after a lengthy (month long) battle with the virus, according to a report.”

      Self-correcting condition

    2. Publius Avatar
      Publius

      And this one is for you Larry. Is it possible the CDC cherry picked the data from Kentucky to get the answer they wanted? Asking for a friend…
      Or is the data from Israel false? Which SCIENCE! are you going to believe?
      https://townhall.com/columnists/scottmorefield/2021/08/23/our-covid-overlords-insane-ignorance-of-natural-immunity-n2594541
      I’m killing people, and Bacon is being a wild conspiracy crazy, for thinking it might be possible, consistent with all prior history and treatment of earlier viruses, that natural immunity is at least as good as, if not better (and it will be proved better one day if and when sanity returns) than the experimental shot which only deals with the spike protein.
      Or is that too DOUBLEPLUSUNGOODCRIMETHINK for you?

      1. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        When you cite townhall, you undermine your argument IMHO and by the way ” OPINION
        Our COVID Overlords’ Insane Ignorance Of Natural Immunity” – do you see the word “opinion”?

        ….. ” Appearing on Fox News’ “Hannity” to discuss the topic a few weeks ago, Dr. Nicole Saphier”

        you’re citing FOX news and it’s reporting?

        do you know Nicole Saphier’s qualifications in infectious diseases? It’s ZERO.

        There are more studies than just the Kentucky one by the way and they tend to replicate.

        The evidence is still coming in but at the end of the day, I trust the science of multiple ongoing studies, not just one.

        1. Publius Avatar
          Publius

          Larry – attacking the source is not good argument form. You attack the substance. Under LarryLogic therefore, if it is in the NYT, the Washington ComPost, any MSM source, it is false and I do not have to respond. And then nobody can arrive at truth then can they?
          And you had a half right statement at the end…
          The evidence is still coming in but at the end of the day, I trust the science of multiple ongoing studies, not just one.
          Evidence is still coming in – true
          But you seem to trust only the CDC official government science, unquestioningly, rather than critically.

          1. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            Yeah it is because you spout stuff that is clearly false and coming from sources that traffic in lies and misinformation for your sources.

            I trust the CDC over FOX and folks like you, yes.

            THe CDC has been around a long time and does not have a reputation like FOX or folks like you in honestly providing data and information.

            You have no credibility and you cite sources that don’t.

          2. Publius Avatar
            Publius

            That is certainly a substantive and devastating response. I surrender to your superior knowledge and argumentation skills and promise never to cite anything in the future other than Larry-approved SCIENCE! (cuz SCIENCE! is a religion, not a process for some people…)

  4. LarrytheG Avatar
    LarrytheG

    There’s more to know and understand about vaccines and how they differ.

    “sterilizing” vaccines kill any virus that try to invade the body. Non-sterilizing vaccines don’t kill the virus but essentially disable it in the vaccinated person.

    What this means in practical terms is that if the vaccine is a non-sterilizing (like COVID and some other vaccines like Polio) is that the vaccinated person can still transmit the virus to others and if others are not vaccinated, they are totally vulnerable to the virus.

    So, if you are vaccinated – you can still infect others who have not been vaccinated.

    As JAB says, sooner or later, every one will get infected but like with some other diseases like Polio or Hepatitis – your fate is largely determined by whether you’re vaccinated.

    In this context, “herd immunity” works differently for sterilizing vaccines than not.

    The info is out there. Just GOOGLE it but make sure the website is truly authoritative AND verify it with other credible/authoritative sites to trust and verify.

    Infectious Diseases and vaccines ARE “complicated”. Every new virus, and science has to work to get it correctly characterized.

  5. Charlie Potatoe Avatar
    Charlie Potatoe

    Despite your repeated statements about the supposed lack of scientific evidence, the effectiveness of Natural Immunity acquired from having Covid-19 against reinfect has been clearly established by well founded Studies.

    a. Israeli Health Ministry

    According to a July 13, 2021 Report, numbers presented to the Israeli Health Ministry data on the wave of COVID outbreaks which began this May show
    that Israelis with immunity from natural infection were far less likely to become infected again in comparison to Israelis who only had immunity via vaccination.

    More than 7,700 new cases of the virus have been detected during the most recent wave starting in May, but just 72 of the confirmed cases were reported in people who were known to have been infected previously – that is, less than 1% of the new cases.

    Roughly 40% of new cases – or more than 3,000 patients – involved people who had been infected despite being vaccinated.
    https://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/309762

    b. Cleveland Clinic

    Researchers from the Cleveland Clinic found that people who’ve already had COVID-19 had similar protection to those who were fully vaccinated,
    based on a study of the 52,238 employees of the Cleveland Clinic for the period up to May 15, the end date for the study.

    Since the Study covered the period before the decline in the effectiveness of the vaccines became critical, more than likely the relative protection of Natural Immunity has increased over that offered by the vaccines, as indicated in the case of Israel, as above.
    https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.06.01.21258176v3

    doi: https://doi.org/10.1101/2021.06.01.212581

    1. LarrytheG Avatar
      LarrytheG

      It would take several studies over time to try to get some tighter calibration, but even then the virus itself is continuing to replicate and mutate. We have basically labelled the current variant as Delta, but there could well be ongoing mutations to the delta variant – ongoing.

      When “field” studies are done – there are a bunch of variables that cannot easily be held constant in the study – like might be done in a laboratory study.

      1. Charlie Potatoe Avatar
        Charlie Potatoe

        So the real life results are inferior to a “laboratory
        study”. Are you kidding?

        The results from Israel are from the Delta Mutant.

        NI is more effective than vaccination because it blocks the Virus in multiple ways, while the Vacs protect in one way, the Spike Protein.

        Historically, NI can offer long term protection, as people who survived the 1918 Pandemic, still had protective antibodies in their 90’s.

        Whether to Vac or not is a cost-benefit calculation,
        and the benefit of the Vacs, which produce serious adverse incidences, seems to be declining.

        So we need to see the what the science says as we suffer through this pandemic, and not make judgments based on politics and ideology.

        1. LarrytheG Avatar
          LarrytheG

          No, they are not inferior but it’s much harder to derive truly valid info when there are many variables you cannot control – that you could control and would, in a laboratory setting. Field data has to be normalized and that in and of itself can be tricky cuz done wrong it can actually pollute the data.

          You may not know all the variables in field results. For instance, do you know how many folks had comorbidities or what their ages are, etc? If you don’t how do you compensate for not knowing that?

          This is another reason for multiple studies – do they confirm prior or contradict?

          We totally agree on the science. It’s just that the science is complex and needs to be done in such a way that the variables are accounted for (or recognized as limitations of the data) and that effect on conclusions.

          1. Charlie Potatoe Avatar
            Charlie Potatoe

            Sorry, don’t buy it. Ignoring real world evidence in the middle of a pandemic, until there is some sort of expensive, time consuming RCT that perfectly takes into account all contingencies is exactly the attitude of the medical bureaucrats, who have never treated a Co19 Patient, that has
            stood in the way of the use of therapeutic repurposed drugs that have shown to be effective. As a result it is likely that untold numbers(millions) of people have died. We need a Nuremberg Trial and many hangings.

          2. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            You’re not ignoring it. It’s just that there is a lot of variables involved that make the data more complex and harder to derive solid conclusions from.

            It’s not about “bureaucrats”, it’s about proper science and be able to understand the data and not get fooled by variables in the data.

            Nuremberg? geeze guy… that’s ignorati type stuff.. going after science because you don’t understand it or trust the scientists.. geeze…

          3. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            He is just hawking snake oil again. It always goes back to the HCQ (and now a horse medicine as well). Anything but the vaccine that actually is impactful.

          4. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            “Eric the half a troll LarrytheG • 10 hours ago
            He is just hawking snake oil again. It always goes back to the HCQ (and now a horse medicine as well). Anything but the vaccine that actually is impactful.”

            A vaccine is a way to achieve immunity without contraction of the disease. If natural immunity through infection is “snake-oil” that RNA encased in lipids they injected into your arm is worthless.

            Clearly none of the 3 of you passed high school biology. At this point you’re f’n morons.

  6. Nancy Naive Avatar
    Nancy Naive

    Cheaper than divorce…
    https://wgme.com/news/local/maine-lawmaker-who-reportedly-lost-wife-to-covid-attends-anti-mandate-rally

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