The Hidden Costs of DEI

by James A. Bacon

According to a new report by the Virginia Association of Scholars, the University of Virginia in 2021 employed 77 people as part of the a vast and growing Diversity, Equity & Inclusion (DEI) bureaucracy at a cost of nearly $7 million a year. Many questions arise from this revelation. What do all these people do? What are their goals? Are they improving the university climate? What is the effect of DEI on freedom of speech, inquiry and expression?

We will address these questions in future posts. For now, we want to make it clear that the $7 million cost is just the tip of the proverbial iceberg.

The authors of the VAS study make it clear that they are counting only positions that are explicitly tied to DEI-related programs, and it counts only salaries. Not benefits. Not office overhead. Not outside consultants, speakers, or events. And perhaps most importantly, not the impact on faculty productivity.

The fixation on DEI suffuses every aspect of university life. Not only does the university administration have a DEI staff, not only do each of its 13 schools and colleges have DEI staffs, but the DEI ethic permeates down to the departmental level as reflected in planning sessions, training programs, departmental-level reading groups, the hiring of new employees, and the granting of pay raises, promotions, and tenure decision-making.

An extraordinary amount of activity at UVa is devoted to DEI, and that activity sucks faculty, students, and non-DEI staff into the vortex.

In UVa’s increasingly labyrinthine DEI bureaucracy, a group referred to as the Academic Deans and Directors for Diversity and Inclusion is described as “a core anchor” for diversity and inclusion at UVa. The group has its own web page. The following bullet points, pulled from that page, suggest what the deans are spending their time on:

  • strategic inclusive excellence planning;
  • key learning events and D&I programming for the University;
  • policy equity reviews;
  • building for a cultural climate of belonging;
  • student, staff, and faculty recruitment, retention, and success; and
  • institutional communications focused on diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI).

Lots of planning. Lots of initiatives. Lots of meetings. Lots of networking. Lots of dialogue. Lots of communication. Lots of equity audits. Lots of memos and emails and updates and reports. In other words, endless bureaucratic thumb- sucking. Of course, all of this activity requires “collaboration” with faculty, who do things like actual teaching and research, and places demands on their time.

What the VAS study could not do is determine how much time non-DEI faculty and staff consume engaging in DEI activities. How does one even begin to measure the “trickle down” effects of the DEI mandate?

With bland bureaucratic language, the College of Arts & Sciences (A&S) website (my bold) provides a glimpse:

Diversity is critical for A&S in its pursuit of excellence, and our goal is to embed diversity considerations across the mission areas of the school. This approach is being used in the development of recommendations, initiatives, and strategies that will support and enhance diversity and inclusion across A&S.

And the School of Architecture:

Through the coordinated efforts of leadership, faculty, staff, students, alumni and allies, the School of Architecture is committed to the long term project of working together to build, promote and sustain a culture of justice, equity, diversity, and inclusion — and to cultivate shared humanity through difference — within and beyond the University.

And the McIntire School of Commerce, from its Inclusive Excellence Plan 2021:

This collaborative plan outlines a series of goals and initiatives aimed at organizational change to address diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI), as critical to achieving excellence at McIntire. These goals were developed through a collaborative process overseen by the McIntire Office of Diversity, Equity and Inclusion (ODEI) involving students, faculty and staff which began in the Fall of 2019. This process has primarily been conducted through engagement and ongoing review with McIntire’s Diversity Advisory Committee.

And the University of Virginia Library:

We work closely with the offices of the Provost, Vice President & Chief Diversity Officer, and African-American Affairs to be educated by speakers and consultants who research and study racism.

My point in this post is not to critique the substance of the DEI philosophy as practiced at UVA or question whether DEI even accomplishes the goals it sets for itself — we will save those matters for other posts — but to suggest that DEI has become a Maoist-like perpetual struggle that engages everyone at a significant cost to productivity.

There is no indication that anyone has catalogued the direct costs of the DEI bureaucracy that has exploded on President Jim Ryan’s watch, must less the indirect costs such as those described above. It’s time UVa stakeholders — including parents, students, taxpayers and alumni — ask those questions, demand answers and then weigh the costs against the putative benefits.


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Comments

143 responses to “The Hidden Costs of DEI”

  1. ….and the metrics are?

    I asked that question about what the metrics were going to be when our department was laying the groundwork of creating a new DIE position …. it was never answered. ……… because it can’t!

    1. Not Today Avatar
      Not Today

      It actually can but it requires intentionality and forethought. If the goal is to diversify the workforce ethnically, efforts can be made to revise job descriptions to remove unnecessary/tangential skills that might discourage female applicants, for ex. Engagement goals can be set for the number of community presentations given, the number of applications from target groups received, etc. You can reduce the homogeneity of interview panels and/or use panels vs. single interviewer models. Expectations can be set/met if one a) identifies homogeneous thought as a detriment and b) wishes to do the work of identifying solutions. Your organization should be commended for part a and pushed to do part b.

    2. Not Today Avatar
      Not Today

      It actually can but it requires intentionality and forethought. If the goal is to diversify the workforce, efforts can be made to revise job descriptions to remove unnecessary/tangential skills that might discourage female applicants, for ex. Engagement goals can be set for the number of community presentations given, the number of applications from target groups received, etc. You can reduce the homogeneity of interview panels and/or use panels vs. single interviewer models. Expectations can be set/met if one a) identifies homogeneous thought as a detriment and b) wishes to do the work of identifying solutions. Your organization should be commended for part a and pushed to do part b.

      1. James C. Sherlock Avatar
        James C. Sherlock

        Those are measures of “intentionality” as you phrase it. Measures of effort.

        They are not outcome measures. Not even “expectation” measures.

        We agree that homogeneous thought is a detriment, but it is also an explicit goal of DEI.

        Please break down for us how heterogeneous thought and DEI oversight of expression can co-exist peacefully.

        1. Not Today Avatar
          Not Today

          Those are absolutely measurable outcomes and until or unless you actually speak to practitioners in the space, you’re not in much of a position to say otherwise. Nothing about DEI is about creating homogeneity of thought, unless you’re referring to the business case (well documented) that’s demonstrated over time why diversity and inclusion improve profitability.

          We know that doesn’t really work to change minds tho because business leaders are typically as intellectually nimble and open to growth/learning as you and JAB. No, I prefer to focus on the human part…respect and dignity and goodness. IOW- the don’t be a jerk case. It’s much simpler and easier for aggrieved parties to grasp.

          DEI efforts don’t police thought…they address behaviors and actions that harm or disadvantage others. No one gives a fig what you think, they’re looking at what we’re doing as individuals and organizations.

        2. Eric the half a troll Avatar
          Eric the half a troll

          A collaborative team intentionally made up of diverse individuals with varying backgrounds and frames of reference will by definition approach problems heterogeneously. This concept is central to DEI initiatives.

          1. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            Yes, but one view might be that the opponents don’t apparently believe there are existing potential structural inequities that need to be addressed. That DEI is just another version of affirmative action to foster equal outcomes that they fundamentally disagree with.

          2. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            This is where the concept of unconscious bias comes into play. All individuals of ALL races and backgrounds experience and exhibit it. It is a characteristic of being human.

          3. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            Yes. Back when it was a male-dominated world (which some are not old enough to remember), people
            would look at you as if you had two heads or one eye if you opined that women should be “equal” in the workplace.

  2. M. Purdy Avatar

    They could probably do the same thing with a third of the staff. But that’s really beside the point. If they had a single DEI employee, this blog would still attack the substantive policy aim. Why is that? Why is DEI such a threat?

    1. James Wyatt Whitehead Avatar
      James Wyatt Whitehead

      Mr. Purdy, the answer to your question is as clear as a full moon. Present and future racism is not the answer to resolving past and present discrimination. DEI is pushing all the wrong buttons. Here is a clear example:
      https://stoplcpscrt.com/lcps-stone-bridge-hs-equity-advisor-parent-told-student-equity-ambassador-is-only-for-blacks-and-black-voices/

      1. M. Purdy Avatar

        I think you have to really define racism when you make statements like that. I don’t see DEI as racist; whereas you can make a much stronger argument for something like the Harvard admissions policy as racist. You also have to believe that if we do nothing about racism in terms of policy, things will get better. But there’s no evidence that that’s the case. In fact, the opposite is true. You do nothing, and elites will always privilege themselves.

        1. James C. Sherlock Avatar
          James C. Sherlock

          “elites will always privilege themselves.”

          Converting nouns to verbs in the process of splitting infinitives is often a sign that the speaker feels that the English language and its standard constructs will not express the depth of the speaker’s wisdom and feelings.

          See the Star Trek intro – “to boldly go” – for a famous split infinitive, but those writers settled for an actual verb.

          So thanks for sharing.

          Next, we need to understand your personal list of “elites.”

          Actually, forget I asked.

          1. M. Purdy Avatar

            Yeah, it’s been a while since you learned anything new obviously, but ‘to privilege” is and has been a verb for a long time. And, yes, split infinitives aren’t great, but are common and accepted. If you’re going to be a grammarian, you should probably first learn to write.

          2. M. Purdy Avatar

            Again, my response was deleted. But rest assured, “to privilege” is a verb and has been for a long time.

        2. James Wyatt Whitehead Avatar
          James Wyatt Whitehead

          Mr. Purdy. Let’s define racism. Webster’s says it’s this. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/racist
          I think my LCPS example fits this definition.
          Power corrupts. Turn the tables. Power still corrupts. Trying hard to understand your perspective. Perhaps you can define your viewpoint better so that I might understand.

      2. Not Today Avatar
        Not Today

        You should probably read more broadly than right-wing sources. I prefer to read right wing sources when I want to learn about their perspectives, terms and aims for themselves. This is harder to do these days as most have dropped any semblance of academic rigor but it is what it is. If you wish to know how DEI is practiced and defined and used in workplaces, you should probably consult those sources for the same reason. Race/ethnicity is one identity marker that folks are encouraged to consider in decision-making, others are disability (physical, mental, and developmental), gender, marital status, income, etc.

        1. Lefty665 Avatar

          “disability (physical, mental notional and developmental)”

          I have worked with people with severe disabilities for 40+ years. I have never heard of “notional” disabilities before. When I look up notional the definition is: “1 : theoretical, speculative 2 : existing in the mind only : imaginary”

          Surely you are not encouraging us to consider imaginary disabilities, or are you?

          1. Not Today Avatar
            Not Today

            It was an autocorrect typo. The word was emotional. I assume you’re familiar with the concepts given your work.

          2. Lefty665 Avatar

            That makes more sense, but is really a subset of mental disabilities, not a stand alone.

            Likewise, DD is a measure of performance, not a diagnosis like physical, mental or intellectual disability. It is commonly, but by no means exclusively, a result of a disability.

            That measure of developmental difference is in conflict with DIE advocacy that equitable outcomes need to be the same for all.

          3. Not Today Avatar
            Not Today

            Which is why I edited my post. Nothing about measures of developmental difference are in conflict with DEI. DEI practitioners are focused on removing barriers for all, including populations with disabilities, because they’re trying to be more inclusive. DEI requires that we ask ourselves whether we are actively/inadvertently disadvantaging individuals or groups unnecessarily and maximizing their inclusion. Your insistence that equal outcomes is the goal is inconsistent with DEI in practice…everywhere.

            Again I ask, which group of marginalized people do you want UVA to ignore? Whose needs should go unconsidered and unmet in service of anti-DEI/CRT/SEL ideology?

          4. Lefty665 Avatar

            Glad you edited your post, but you still don’t get it.

            Major categories of disability are physical, mental and intellectual. Developmental Delay (DD) issues are measures of performance, specifically a performance deficit, not a disability itself. Again, DD is commonly, but by no means exclusively, a result of a disability.

            “Your insistence that equal outcomes is the goal is inconsistent with DEI in practice…everywhere.”

            You are flat wrong. There are several specific comments elsewhere in this thread that expressly refute your insistence to the contrary.

            No one is advocating that marginalized people be ignored at UVa or anywhere. What some are advocating, me anyway, is that DEI/CRT are racist, illegal, and unconstitutional. They are destructive of the goal of improving the lot of all people.

            In one technique for dealing with performance deficits when working with people with severe intellectual disabilities the prompting is “Try another way”. It works surprisingly well. Advocates for DIE and CRT might improve their outcomes if they gave it a whirl instead of attributing bad motives to those who disagree with them.

          5. Not Today Avatar
            Not Today

            Umm, ok, I largely see that as a semantic distinction that has no impact on the larger point but you do you. Unlike many here, I’m happy to acknowledge that it’s not my area of expertise and won’t pretend it is by subbing braggadocio and repetition.

            I’m not ignoring the statements cherry-picked and posted. I find them unpersuasive because they lack context, verification, and any practical application information. You make these statements about DEI, CRT, and SEL being racist and cannot back them up with any reputable source, none. It’s all speculation, assumption, and hyperbole. You have no actual idea how these concepts are applied in practice and no desire to learn.

            What ‘try another way’ proposals do you support. Really. It’s a question others here seem reluctant to/incapable of addressing.

          6. Lefty665 Avatar

            The essence of “try another way” is that it does not prescribe methods. It simply and unobtrusively prompts the participant to cease unproductive activity and to do something different. What different is up to the participant. It may take several cycles of prompts before the participant finds a successful technique. But once that happens success is a powerful reinforcer, the learning is real and sticks.

            I often find when I’m struggling with an issue or not making much headway that if I stop beating my head against the wall and prompt myself to try another way I find new insights and solutions.

            It’s an old approach, it dates to the ’70s and is obscure today. The results it can give are amazing.
            https://mn.gov/mnddc/extra/marc-gold1.html

          7. Not Today Avatar
            Not Today

            Ok. So when I asked you to try another way of approaching DEI, explain a different approach, and you proceeded to explain the technique instead, is that how the technique is supposed to work?

          8. Not Today Avatar
            Not Today

            Dupe post.

          9. Lefty665 Avatar

            The point of the method is that the participant identifies a different approach, “tries another way”. It is internal, learning by the participant as the goal, not external with answers prescribed by the trainer. Teaching how to think, not what is why it is effective.

            It works very well with people who have severe intellectual disabilities. Theoretically folks who are brighter than that can master it too.

            Some of the dialog on BR may be constructive for you in that process, some not so much.

            My prompt to you with DIE/CRT would be “try another way” to achieve your goals.

          10. Not Today Avatar
            Not Today

            I didn’t ask for a prescribed outcome, I asked you to think about what your alternatives might be. I can name several from a conservative point of view but wouldn’t want to deprive you of the opportunity to be creative and thoughtful and own your ideas. If I’m understanding correctly, it primarily works for those interested in internal learning/growth. Makes sense.

          11. Lefty665 Avatar

            To start with CRT and its most prominent exponent is racist. Kendi’s formula that the remedy for past discrimination is present discrimination and the remedy for present discrimination is future discrimination is flatly illegal, contrary to the law of the land. See the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and extensions over the last nearly 60 years. As a white male if I expressed similar racist views you’d be asking where I got my sheets and hoods. Until you reject woke racist CRT there is no way to have a rational discussion.

            You mistake me for a conservative. I am not, I am an independent, left the Dem party a decade ago over its decay which has only gotten worse, but still identify as a New Deal Dem populist and like McWhorter probably a ’60s vintage liberal.

            Please try another way.

          12. Not Today Avatar
            Not Today

            It’s unfortunate that in the face of opportunities to provide meaningful suggestions, you default to unsupportable political talking points. Be well.

          13. Not Today Avatar
            Not Today

            I am perfectly happy to try new and different ways. I have lots of ideas of ways to increase inclusion, acceptance, and equity. I hope you’ll eventually choose to use your voice to contribute to those discussions with actionable solutions. Playing spoiler is of limited utility. Be well!

          14. Not Today Avatar
            Not Today

            Kendi is one man. He’s one voice, not *the* voice. I can’t force anyone to do better at listening to more expansive sets of voices, there are plenty. You should try it. You’re uninformed about this issue and it shows.

          15. Lefty665 Avatar

            Who do you suggest, more racists like DeAngelo or Hannah-Jones?

            You have not rejected woke CRT racism. Until you reject racism, its CRT literature and practitioners you have no standing to discuss the issues.

            Try another way.

          16. Not Today Avatar
            Not Today

            I do not reject CRT, no. I have read enough scholarly tomes to know that racism *is* baked into many American laws, policies, and practices.

            I do reject racism. I rarely use the term to describe people or things but I know it exists.

            I have provided other voices you might consider listening to, several times, including Laurence Otis Graham, Heather McGhee, Dr. Cassandra Newby-Alexander, and Mehrsa Baradan. You might be particularly interested in Judith Heumann’s book, Being Heumann. Her work on DEI and disability advocacy is profound.

          17. Not Today Avatar
            Not Today

            Dupe post.

          18. Lefty665 Avatar

            “I do not reject CRT, no.”

            You do not reject openly racist CRT and it’s racist advocates. That makes you a racist. “Kendo” is too cute by half, but what’s a vowel between racists?

            Why would anyone want to discuss anything with a racist, white, black, male, female, or other?

            By chance are the authors on your reading list CRT racists too?

            Try another way

          19. Not Today Avatar
            Not Today

            You don’t find the term ‘racist’ to be a pejorative, ad hominem attack? I do and rarely use it.

            Instead, if I am engaging in real, non-snarky discussion, I find it productive to talk about ideas. CRT as an idea, the original concept, is difficult to refute. It exists in the disparate sentencing guidelines for drugs (crack vs cocaine), in the criminalization of vagrancy during reconstruction, and the codification of discriminatory lending practices (aka redlining). THAT is CRT. Which part do you find untruthful?

          20. Not Today Avatar
            Not Today

            Which part of the scholarship do you dispute, specifically?? I find the term ‘racist’ a pejorative, ad hominem that discourages civil discussion but YMMV.
            https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_race_theory#Definitions

          21. Lefty665 Avatar

            Nice try, but changing the subject from your refusal to reject racism is a non starter. Try another way.

            Surely you are not calling racists “Kendo”, DeAngelo, Hannah-Jones, et al scholars or their writing “scholarship”, or are you? You have been remarkably unclear.

            America has work to do to become a better place for all. That is not likely to happen as long as racists are successfully peddling their woke CRT racism.

            To get back to JABs post that started this thread, in Virginia one place to begin could be dismantling the $7M+ a year DIE/CRT bureaucracy at UVa and using the money instead to help teach all of Virginia’s kids to read and write.

            Another rehabilitation concept is being “rehab ready”. That means that people are unlikely to make progress until they acknowledge they have a problem, woke racism for example, and they are interested in fixing it. It usually requires some degree of insight.

          22. Not Today Avatar
            Not Today

            I said (in a post that was deleted) that I not only reject racism but find it an offensive pejorative. I don’t use it ad nauseam as you do. Rather, I prefer to engage over ideas. As such, I encouraged you to offer some ideas on how to value diversity, equity and inclusion for all which you elected not to do. I’m not sure who you think does the work of helping ALL kids read and write think to the best of their ability but it’s not keyboard warriors. It’s people with job titles like those JAB identified.

          23. Lefty665 Avatar

            Well yes, racists are ugly and it is rightfully a pejorative.

            For those of us who did not see your deleted post, please unequivocally reject woke CRT racism so we can see it. That will be a good start on becoming rehab ready.

            “I promised you to offer some ideas on how to value diversity, equity and inclusion for all which you elected not to do. I’m not sure who you think does thy work,”

            ??? That makes no sense whatsoever. I respectfully suggest you turn down your spell checker too. It does not seem to be serving thy well.

            My wife as a special ed teacher has helped quite a few kids learn to read, write and think. In my 40+ years in the rehab field I’d like to believe I helped a few along life’s way too. That’s retired keyboard warrior thank you. I made much of my living writing code.

            Nah, the ones JAB identified need to go. Get them out of the colleges. Put teachers and aides down in the trenches getting little kids off to a good start instead of being developmentally delayed and growing up illiterate with stunted lives.

            The Gov is onto something with his goal to get all students reading, writing and figuring at grade level by 3rd grade.

          24. Not Today Avatar
            Not Today

            1) I didn’t think the use of pejoratives was acceptable here going forward. Apparently that’s not true.

            2) You’ve evinced nothing that suggest the persons you mentioned are racists according to any known definition of the word.

            3) I’m not sure how many times and in how many ways I need to say this…I DO NOT CALL PEOPLE RACISTS and prefer not to have the term hurled about. If you insist on continuing to do so we can cease to communicate further. It devalues the word and its meaning in the same way that calling every comparison to 1920s/30s German politics ‘Nazi” devolves the debate.

            4) I typically post from my phone because I am BUSY. I have kids to raise and a family to enjoy. I do not sit behind my keyboard all day. Chalk the typos up to the speed of my brain and frailty of my arthritic fingers.

            5) If that’s all you have to say, I think we’re done here. This isn’t an exchange of ideas; yours is a recitation of talking points and grievances.

            Enjoy your evening.

          25. Not Today Avatar
            Not Today

            1) I didn’t think the use of pejoratives was acceptable here going forward. Apparently that’s not true.

            2) You’ve evinced nothing that suggest the persons you mentioned are racists according to any known definition of the word.

            3) I’m not sure how many times and in how many ways I need to say this…I DO NOT CONDONE RACISM NOR CALL PEOPLE RACISTS WILLY NILLY and prefer not to have the term hurled about. If you insist on continuing to do so we can cease to communicate further. It devalues the word and its meaning in the same way that calling every comparison to 1920s/30s German politics ‘Nazi” devolves the debate.

            4) I typically post from my phone because I am BUSY. I have kids to raise and a family to enjoy. I do not sit behind my keyboard all day. Chalk the typos up to the speed of my brain and frailty of my arthritic fingers.

            5) If that’s all you have to say, I think we’re done here. This isn’t an exchange of ideas; yours is a recitation of talking points and grievances.

            Enjoy your evening.

          26. No. Your post was not deleted. It’s still here not too far above this one. This thread got out of control 75 posts ago. Be advised, it’s not happening again tomorrow, so maybe you’ll be able to find your own posts.

          27. Not Today Avatar
            Not Today

            Further, I asked you whether you’d consider refraining from using that ad hominem/pejorative term toward people you don’t know.

          28. Lefty665 Avatar

            All you need to to is to clearly renounce woke CRT racism as practiced by the likes of “Kendo” (that’s cute, is he your buddy?), DeAngelo , Hanna-Jones, et al. That will make me a believer and I will stop.

            Until then I am reminded of something my dear old mother used to say: “Lie down with dogs, get up with fleas”.

          29. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            I’m appreciating this conversation much. Thanks for expressing your views which I do find reasonable and worthy. Thank you.

          30. Not Today Avatar
            Not Today

            I am perfectly happy to try new and different ways. I have lots of ideas of ways to increase inclusion, acceptance, and equity. I hope you’ll eventually choose to use your voice to contribute to those discussions with actionable solutions. Playing spoiler is of limited utility. Be well!

          31. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            I think we’ve done a great disservice to those with disabilities, at least in the school setting since ” No Child Left Behind” was instituted.

            Perhaps that was the beginning of equity rather than actually teaching to ones abilities.

          32. Lefty665 Avatar

            Some special ed programs are pretty good, and some are not. Just like the rest of the school systems they are part of.

            During her years as a special ed teacher, my wife found that often the biggest changes she made in kids lives was teaching them to read. It was profound and why I have been on that soap box here in the education discussions.

            Got my fingers crossed that the Gov’s initiatives will help ensure every kid in Virginia gets a boost in learning to read. Reading at grade level by the 3rd grade would be huge both for the kids and for the Commonwealth too.

          33. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            I concur, my father was a shop teacher and it became a dumping ground when the IEP process fell apart and guidance didn’t know what else to do.

            I also have a DD uncle who has never progressed past the mental age of a 4 year old. So I can understand your soap box completely. Most people don’t understand and just get mad when he accidentally runs into them, took him into D.C. once on the Metro and people were so rude to him.

          34. Not Today Avatar
            Not Today

            Something we agree on!! I am a HUGE proponent of phonics for all.

          35. Not Today Avatar
            Not Today

            It actually wasn’t. I was working in K-12 at the state level at the time. NCLB was an equal opportunity approach, led by a conservative POTUS, who thought ‘what gets tested gets taught’ was a recipe for success.

          36. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            I don’t care who was POTUS and signed it into law and furthermore G.W.Bush was not a conservative, nor was his father.

            NCLB was and is a bit government failure. Who impacted those who it was “intended” to help the most in a negative way.

            https://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2015/10/27/443110755/no-child-left-behind-what-worked-what-didnt

          37. Not Today Avatar
            Not Today

            Well, he may not be conservative enough by today’s standards but that’s who the Republican (conservative) party nominated, that’s who won the presidency, and NCLB was their (conservative) policy proposal based on equal opportunity ideas that became law. I don’t disagree that it was a colossal failure. It wasn’t data-informed or effective and required tons of administrative time and resources.

          38. Not Today Avatar
            Not Today

            Well, he may not be conservative enough by today’s standards but that’s who the Republican (conservative) party nominated, that’s who won the presidency, and NCLB was their (conservative) policy proposal based on equal opportunity ideas that became law. I don’t disagree that it was a colossal failure. It wasn’t data-informed or effective and required tons of administrative time and resources. It wasn’t an equity approach and never claimed to be. Few additional resources or research went into helping students at the bottom of the totem pole reach their full potential.

          39. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            “Republican (conservative) party nominated”

            Republican does not mean conservative, period ever end of story.

            NCLB was passed with a bi-partisan majority, therefore your statement is false.

            House: 384- 45
            Senate: 91-8

            Republican hour majority Senate 50/50 split.

            https://clerk.house.gov/evs/2001/roll145.xml

            https://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_votes/vote1071/vote_107_1_00192.htm

            Your attempts to place blame is nothing but an example of whataboutism sprinkled with you have no idea what you’re talking about.

          40. Not Today Avatar
            Not Today

            It was passed with a bipartisan majority, yes. I never said otherwise. Pls. Pay attention, precision matters. I said NCLB was a conservative proposal…because it was. That’s not placing blame. It’s stating facts. I’m sorry if that upsets you.

          41. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            Yes, yes you did when you attempted to place it square at the feet of conservatives. Which you don’t know what a conservative is, clearly.

            No, no it wasn’t and you’ve provided nothing to prove that statement.

            No, you’re not aquatinted with the facts, you’re spouting an uneducated opinion.

          42. Not Today Avatar
            Not Today

            Sir, relax. Unless GWB is your long-lost brother, I’m not sure why it troubles you so much to have accountability placed squarely where it belongs. The buck stops…at Congress? No. That’s not how leadership works.

            https://www.educationnext.org/the-politics-of-no-child-left-behind/

          43. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            Who is JWB? You mean GWB?

            Also, your citation doesn’t prove your comment to be true, so you should work on that. What is also clear, is that you didn’t read your citation.

            “The buck stops…at Congress? No. That’s not how leadership works.”

            Congress writes Laws, Presidents sign into Law and enforce them. Clearly, you knowledge of how our Government works is minimal at best, but given your comments about other topics, I’m not surprised you continue to make the same errors.

            Also, invoking a Truman quote isn’t going to work.

            NCLB was a growth of the Federal Government which is antithetical of being a “Conservative”.

          44. Not Today Avatar
            Not Today

            Clearly, I’ve struck a nerve. I include citations that attempt to provide FULL context in a balanced way, not cherry-picked snippets, because they advance understanding not ‘prove a point’. I know that’s not how most folks here communicate, preferring silly gotcha games, but I find that tedious and juvenile. It’s fun for a time but gets old/stale quickly. Speaking of points, what is yours again?? NCLB can’t possibly be a creature of conservative thought because the republicans who proposed it and signed it into law aren’t conservative and nothing that comes out of the federal government is conservative? That’s one, fine No True Scotsman ya got there.

          45. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            What you provided was a citation that you didn’t bother to completely read. It didn’t validate your argument.

            “I include citations that attempt to provide FULL context in a balanced way, not cherry-picked snippets, because they advance understanding not ‘prove a point’”

            Here’s how point, counterpoint works since it’s clear you missed that class. You made a point, I made a counterpoint, to which you would typically produce something that would validate your statement. The problem being you didn’t produce anything that validated your statement.

            ‘I know that’s not how most folks here communicate, preferring silly gotcha games, but I find that tedious and juvenile”

            Given your comment history, that statement is laughable at best, completely tone-deaf at worst.

            “NCLB can’t possibly be a creature of conservative thought because the republicans who proposed it and signed it into law aren’t conservative and nothing that comes out of the federal government is conservative? That’s one, fine No True Scotsman ya got there.”

            Clearly you don’t know your own point, you said NCLB was a Conservative position because it was signed into Law by POTUS Bush 43 (NCLB was introduced into Congress by John Boehner -R, George Miller -D, Ted Kennedy -D, & Judd Gregg -R). It was proposed and campaigned for via a bi-partisan majority that would’ve withstood a Presidential Veto had it been in play. It was also a Big Government genesis since POTUS L.B. Johnson signed the ESEA into law in 1965.

            Your vacillation in an attempt to find solid footing is a sad, sad display.

            Also, fallacy’s aren’t your bag. As there isn’t anything in my statement that would be considered “No True Scotsman”.

            Projection is a heck of drug that you seem to be addicted.

          46. Lefty665 Avatar

            We got a pretty clear demonstration (repeated 14 times) of some of the differences between Repubs and conservatives in the Republican party in the House last week. They are not synonymous.

          47. Not Today Avatar
            Not Today

            I’m not sure what participants in that clown show you’re counting as conservatives and which you ID as Republicans. Neither looked good to me. Are you making that distinction based on which policies they support because on that front, they’re basically all the same.

          48. Not Today Avatar
            Not Today

            So you say. They all looked like clowns to me and sat on the same side of the aisle. 🤷‍♀️

          49. Not Today Avatar
            Not Today

            Sadly, the only folks who truly benefited were the test companies and consultants who ‘helped’ districts make sense if the new administrative mandates and regulations, the free market at work. I hope it’s not too difficult to contemplate but, yes, NCLB was a conservative proposal generated by conservative think tanks, proposed by a Republican POTUS. Regardless of how the proposal passed, its origins are part of this historical record.

          50. Not Today Avatar
            Not Today

            Not especially. I think we’d be much better off with a modified European/Asian model that prioritizes getting our best/brightest of all stripes into classrooms with a high pay/high respect model. Here, smart kids have much more lucrative and low stress options that don’t require them to defend their bookshelves from every Tom, Dick, and Harry with an uninformed opinion.

          51. Not Today Avatar
            Not Today

            In most of the rest of the world they use high-stakes assessments at the end of elementary, middle and high school that circumscribe your options at the next level. I don’t think that would fly here.

            There are multiple reasons for and ways to assess students tho, depending on your aims. Formative (to see where your students are and potentially course correct), summative (to see what they’ve learned and/or can recall) and normative (to see how they compare to others).

            In my dream world the emphasis would be on high quality teaching with educators empowered to do formative and summative assessments (shared with families) and normative assessments conducted once a year to inform school, district, and state decision-making about how/whether to change instructional practices. The reality is that many states are not equipped to do this (anti-intellectual by nature).

            SAT/ACT overlayed on a national system that values inquiry and progress is VERY different than one that values $$$ and appearances over all.

        2. James Wyatt Whitehead Avatar
          James Wyatt Whitehead

          I do indeed read Mr. Not Today. Perhaps you should consult the King James version of the Bible. The teachings of Jesus Christ tell me that your brand of DEI is incompatible with designs of Providence.

          1. James McCarthy Avatar
            James McCarthy

            Oy vey ist mir!!! Not all abide by the designs of Providence in efforts to be equitable.

          2. James Wyatt Whitehead Avatar
            James Wyatt Whitehead

            I had to look that one up. A little rusty on my Yiddish. Thank the heavens for Jefferson, Madison, Mason, Wythe, and Henry. Religious freedom was not free.

          3. James McCarthy Avatar
            James McCarthy

            Freedom is indeed not free where or when folks must abide by Providence.

          4. Not Today Avatar
            Not Today

            Also, just FYI, I’m Ms. Not Today.

          5. James Wyatt Whitehead Avatar
            James Wyatt Whitehead

            Had no way of knowing that. My apologies. You could post your real name. No rule against that. It would lend strength to your viewpoints. Feel free to address me as Mr. Whitehead. That is how over 3,000 former students did so.

          6. Not Today Avatar
            Not Today

            No worries 😆. I think the assumption is that vocal/snarky pushback comes primarily from men. My father trained me well. 🤣

          7. Not Today Avatar
            Not Today

            Au contraire, my friend! I was raised in the church and DEI is woven throughout the good book. Freeing the oppressed from unfair treatment and captivity is a theme, a current. Elevating the listeners, the obedient, the problem solvers to leadership is a theme, a current—

            Providence has long been used to justify heinous crimes against those deemed lesser by Christians, so much so that the passages describing freedom from bondage were removed from the Bibles given to oppressed persons. I assume you know that. It’s hardly been seen/employed as a universal good so I’m sure you didn’t mean to cite that history as meaningful WRT DEI today. https://www.pastortheologians.com/book-reviews/2020/09/29/providence-race-and-formation-reflections-on-jennings-christian-imagination

            The church is a global one and needn’t rely on King James’ royalist/dominionist/providential interpretation of scripture. That way lies the road to atrocity. (See Trail of Tears and Chattel Slavery).

          8. James Wyatt Whitehead Avatar
            James Wyatt Whitehead

            Ah! I see. Just an old school baptist. We have been picked on for about 250 years now in Virginia. Kinda used to it. Here is how we see things.
            http://oldschoolbaptists.net/docketoctin.html
            Will pray for you tomorrow.

          9. Not Today Avatar
            Not Today

            I’m always willing to accept prayers. I embrace my Episcopalian roots…FROZEN CHOSEN for the win! My father was raised in an ABC affiliated church, which I’m sure you know was a denomination founded when black churches were denied mainstream Baptist affiliation (SBC), so I’m not unfamiliar with the stated beliefs. My mother insisted on Episcopalian sensibilities because her grandparents were founding members of a prominent AME church (a denomination founded for similar reasons).

          10. James Wyatt Whitehead Avatar
            James Wyatt Whitehead

            I have been to an AME service. Marvelous and beautiful. I will never forget it. I have enjoyed studying the history of Thumb Run Church. Starting in 1772 members, both black and white, and men and women, had all privileges granted. Remarkable for those times.
            http://oldschoolbaptists.net/thumb.html

          11. Not Today Avatar
            Not Today

            Indeed. I prefer liturgical services for a variety of reasons but appreciate the history and embedded lessons of my chosen denomination too. Ahead of its time.

  3. Charles D'Aulnais Avatar
    Charles D’Aulnais

    I see where UVa’s DE&I received $15.2 Million in Federal Emergency Funding last year. Wonder the “usual” amount received each year?

    Given the annual Federal funding for UVa is north of $400M and State funding is only (emphasize only) $150M, one might conclude the DE&I folks bring in about $20M annually from the Federal government.

    Maybe the WH should have some BoV appointments?

  4. Lefty665 Avatar

    “DEI has become a Maoist-like perpetual struggle that engages everyone at a significant cost to productivity.”

    Go for it! By focusing on the profound institutionalization of DIE at UVa you have the opportunity to change the paradigm there and by extension across the state. Best wishes.

    1. M. Purdy Avatar

      It’s interesting that Mr. Bacon levels this criticism about “cost to productivity.” Nothing in his bio indicates any experience in academia or industry where he could in theory view such cost first hand. Where’s the evidence?

      1. Not Today Avatar
        Not Today

        The definition of ad hominem has apparently devolved. It’s no longer whether you attack someone personally (like dependa). Merely finding no merit in their their ideas/stances is enough to levy the charge.

  5. James C. Sherlock Avatar
    James C. Sherlock

    We notice that one of the 77 is on the University’s threat assessment team. What could go wrong?

    1. LarrytheG Avatar
      LarrytheG

      is this comment about DEI or something else?

  6. Not Today Avatar
    Not Today

    Can you speak to the reasons for your reliance on this group for information about DEI in higher ed or anywhere else? From my reading, they seem to have some valid criticisms of 1619 Project scholarship but I’m unclear where the basis and expertise from which they opine on K-12 and higher ed in general originates. They represent a handful of institutions and are small in number (but well funded…hmmm).

    I’m equally unclear what, exactly, you object to in acknowledging the history of Virginia as it relates to zoning, restricted economic opportunity and resource allocation. Have you read The Color of Money, In Their Own Words, or any primary-source based scholarship from people like Dr. Newby-Alexander?

    I’m also wondering why you haven’t taken the time to engage with the individuals and departments you cite to ask them what their aims/measurables/works are and what they are tasked with achieving on behalf of the students and institution. You’re extrapolating specific programming from summaries/resumes and online snippets. It’s shoddy workmanship.

    Just as you are unable to clearly identify costs (for lack of due diligence and research), you haven’t even bothered to try to identify benefits.

    1. M. Purdy Avatar

      It’s all a dog whistle…let’s just call it what it is.

      1. “Let’s call it what it is.”

        Let’s hear it. What is the dog whistle? Come out and say it.

        1. M. Purdy Avatar

          I can’t hear it. It’s a dog whistle, after all, and I don’t think I have the right skin pigmentation.

        2. Not Today Avatar
          Not Today

          Sir, fairness and equity is the job of all Americans. If you wish to calculate the cost of inequity and unfairness, you need to take a bite out of each person’s income and expenses. The Sum of Us attempts to wrestle with those costs/benefits as scholars have identified them. You might start there.

          1. M. Purdy Avatar

            I think you misunderstand…fairness and equity are a Maoist plot to undermine the “true achievements” of the “most qualified people.”

        3. James C. Sherlock Avatar
          James C. Sherlock

          Apparently neither Purdy nor Not Today can hear the dog whistle, but they are sure it is there.

          Purdy blames genetics for his deafness to the dog whistle frequency.

          Not Today changes the subject. He recommends taking “ a bite out of each person’s income and expenses” to calculate the cost of inequity.

          He has apparently not paused to do it.

          Those are your answers.

          1. Not Today Avatar
            Not Today

            I am a *SHE* and what I recommended was learning how inequality takes a bite, ALREADY, out of each of us by reading a well-written, researched BOOK on the subject. You should consider it. Books are most edifying.

          2. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            The tale of two cities character is NN.

          3. M. Purdy Avatar

            My response was deleted, but the thrust of it was that I don’t need to hear a dog whistle to know it’s a dog whistle. I just see who’s motivated by it, and sorry to say, it ain’t pretty.

    2. Regarding your first point: The higher-ed community has shown zero interest in questioning its own premises about DEI or the resources it has poured into it. Only outside groups like the Virginia Association of Scholars (which is affiliated with the National Association of Scholars) has made the effort.

      Regarding your last point: “You’re extrapolating specific programming from summaries/resumes and online snippets.”

      Do you seriously want to suggest that my quotes are unrepresentative of the thought in the UVa administration? Show me a single quote anywhere on the UVa website that deviates from DEI orthodoxy.

      1. Not Today Avatar
        Not Today

        Have you attempted to do a lit review on DEI to identify substantive critiques of the actual practices and policies at UVA? Do you know what the actual practices, policies and programmatic aims are? Have you spoken to the people in the positions you named to find out what their roles are?

        I can google and easily find critiques from all sides of the ideological spectrum and see robust discussions of recommended changes but I’m not the one putting forth opinion as fact or attempting to gin up emotional reactions. It seems to me that the only one unwilling to deviate from orthodoxy based on inconvenient facts is you.

        1. You won’t find any critique of DEI on the UVa website. If you do, I’ll gladly eat crow.

          1. M. Purdy Avatar

            Why would you expect a critique on a UVa website? It’s a policy of the university. The debate should happen in classrooms, online, in independent publications, etc.

          2. Not Today Avatar
            Not Today

            Why should it? Which part of diversity, equity and inclusion troubles you so? Diversity? That thing we possess by virtue of being different, flawed humans? Equity? That inner voice that calls us to seek fair treatment? Or inclusion? The part thy makes sure everyone is welcome and invited to participate as they’re able?

          3. Lefty665 Avatar

            Perhaps it is the “equity” piece that advocates for equal outcomes independent of individual achievement.

          4. M. Purdy Avatar

            Who says that equity means equal outcomes, other than people who oppose equity?

          5. How about the United way?

            What is the Definition of Equity?
            Equity, in its simplest terms as it relates to racial and social justice, means meeting communities where they are and allocating
            resources and opportunities as needed to create equal outcomes for all community members.

            https://unitedwaynca.org/blog/equity-vs-equality/

          6. Charles D'Aulnais Avatar
            Charles D’Aulnais

            How about the dictionary?

            A : justice according to natural law or right

            specifically : freedom from bias or favoritism

            b
            : something that is equitable

            Et al,

            https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/equity

            Equity in education? How about Service for All?

          7. M. Purdy Avatar

            Yeah, sounds like a conspiracy to me. I’m sure an elite university–where by definition not everyone is qualified– intends on “equality of outcomes.” Look at the defintion here and tell me where it talks about equality of outcomes: https://www.naceweb.org/about-us/equity-definition/

          8. Charles D'Aulnais Avatar
            Charles D’Aulnais

            Surely, we can come to an equitable agreement wherein each takes from this discussion based upon a fair and reasonable difference in the definitions of “equity” and “equal”?

          9. Purdy asked who said equity equals equal outcomes, not other definitions. I gave two mainstream sources.

          10. M. Purdy Avatar

            Ah, but nothing having to do with UVa or universities in Virginia. You cited a nonprofit, and quoted the VP, who IMO either misspoke or didn’t mean that outcomes would always be equal, but that people would start in the same place. Either way, there is no policy that everyone ends up in the same place. Very little backs up your assertion.

          11. Charles D'Aulnais Avatar
            Charles D’Aulnais

            I tried to give an example in keeping with the UnitedWay definition, but it was deleted, or flagged as spam or something

          12. James McCarthy Avatar
            James McCarthy

            It’s likely one of the conservative icons like Adam Smith’s invisible hand. You ain’t alone in this experience.

          13. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            THe two examples you gave DO seem to confuse the issue. But there ARE clear-minded explanations of what DEI really is , some of them given right here by Not TOday which are NOT being responded to by the anti-DEI folk.

            DEI should NOT be about equal outcomes, I totally agree but for those who oppose DEI no matter what, including the rationale given by NotToday, I’d like to hear what the reason is once we agree that equal outcomes is NOT what it should be.

            Do we think that we don’t have a problem with equity to begin with?

          14. As Vice President said before the election, “Sen. Kamala Harris (D-CA) made a final pitch for socialist ideology two days before the presidential election, posting a video explaining the difference between “equality” and “equity” and concluding that “equitable treatment means we all end up at the same place.”
            https://twitter.com/KamalaHarris/status/1322963321994289154?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1322963321994289154%7Ctwgr%5E46cd5a88aac1b898f8e508ca750a872f86c596ed%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.breitbart.com%2Fpolitics%2F2020%2F11%2F01%2Fkamala-harris-promotes-socialism-two-days-ahead-of-election-equitable-treatment-means-we-all-end-up-at-the-same-place%2F

          15. Not Today Avatar
            Not Today

            Equitable treatment means we all have equal odds and opportunities to end up at the same place without some people being disadvantaged by barriers like inadequate resourcing and inaccessible break rooms, etc. Which groups/needs would you like UVA NOT to consider when evaluating the needs of its staff, students, and visitors?

          16. Not what Purdy asked…and ignored.

          17. Charles D'Aulnais Avatar
            Charles D’Aulnais

            Not to disagree with the VP, but equitable or inequitable, equal or unequal, we are all bound to end up at the same place.

          18. Lefty665 Avatar

            VDOE for one under the prior administration. In pursuit of equity it advocated elimination of differences in outcomes based on several criteria that specifically included ability. Charlottesville’s definition of 86% of it’s students as gifted also explicitly to achieve equity is another. Generally it is the woke definition of equity.

            We are all dedicated to equality of opportunity. The widespread replacement of equality of opportunity with equity of outcomes regardless of achievement is what some of us object to.

            I encourage you to read John McWhorter’s “Woke Racism”. Among other things he discusses the damage equity does to equality.

          19. Lefty665 Avatar

            We agree that McWhorter is a wonderful linguist, but not much else.

            Your ad hominem attack on McWhorter is disappointing. I have found him to be consistent, insightful and speaking more sense than most, especially on the damage woke racism and its elect advocates do.

          20. Not Today Avatar
            Not Today

            Can you provide a link to the specific policy or comments you’re referring to? Which individuals said equity=equal outcomes? I’m afraid I can’t accept your word as evidence of fact.

          21. Lefty665 Avatar

            Charlottesville Daily Progress newspaper, spring of last year when they were exultant that they had achieved equity by declaring 86% of the school children in the city as gifted. Look it up.

          22. Not Today Avatar
            Not Today

            I’ve attempted to locate related quotes and cannot find them. 🤷‍♀️

          23. Not Today Avatar
            Not Today

            My comments encouraging you to read beyond McWhorter (because I’m very familiar with his work) due to his inability to connect personally with the ideals he espouses keep being deleted. Laurence Otis Graham was, in contrast, remarkably introspective and honest. This aside is a direct response to your invocation of him as a noteworthy voice. He is a wonderful linguist but his social commentary is not what he’s tenured to provide nor an area of expertise he’s qualified to speak to. He acknowledged as much in this interview: https://www.politico.com/newsletters/the-recast/2021/10/29/woke-racism-john-mcwhorter-494906 He’s fundamentally wrong on so many things and has been proven so many times. His prediction WRT the 2022 elections and black sentiment in 2021 were so off as to be laughable. He’s simply an unreliable source/narrator.

            It’s hard to see how we’re all in agreement about equal opportunity. I have seen no evidence that any anti-CRT/SEL/DEI person here supports any effort to level the playing field and create equal opportunity for anyone.

          24. Not Today Avatar
            Not Today

            I have been unable to find the article and quotes you’ve mentioned, perhaps because I’m unwilling to subscribe to a local paper in a different part of the state, lol. If at all possible, it would be helpful to include direct quotes and open access resources.

          25. Not Today Avatar
            Not Today

            Except that’s not what equity actually means. Surely you’ve seen one of several exemplar cartoons where everyone is given the same assistance vs the kind of assistance they need to achieve ‘success’ however one defines it. It’s no different from the military proactively considering different body types when designing and testing its uniforms for fit and function. Equity considerations are and ought to be part of how we do business because they improve product/personnel performance and our capacity to attract and retain competent employees.

          26. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            This critique should lead to the question of what one means by “equal outcome”? Could equal outcome be that each individual can attain (with equal effort on each individual’s part) their maximum natural potential? Is that somehow an abhorrent concept? That is certainly not where we are today in society.

          27. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            another way of looking at this is to ask if giving a child extra help for a learning disability or dyslexia is giving him “more” than other kids get and therefore unfair and not “equal” to the other kids?

            Should all kids get exactly the same “equal” help and let them achieve whatever potential they can without more/extra help than the other kids?

          28. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            another way of looking at this is to ask if giving a child extra help for a learning disability or dyslexia is giving him “more” than other kids get and therefore unfair and not “equal” to the other kids?

            Should all kids get exactly the same “equal” help and let them achieve whatever potential they can without more/extra help than the other kids?

          29. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            This is a very good example.

          30. Lefty665 Avatar

            Nice thought, appropriate, and a goal all support. But, that’s not how the DIE/CRT crowd defines things.

            Their replacement of equality with equity where all differences in outcome are the result of racism and discrimination is the problem.

            That differs massively from equality of opportunity and assistance for all to achieve to their potential. It turns Dr. King’s dream on its head.

            You’re right we’ve got a long way to go to maximize each person’s potential. We will never get there with DIE/CRT asserting that differences in achievement are all due to racism and discrimination.

            JABs expressed intent with this post was to highlight the waste of resources on DIE/CRT personnel at UVa. That $7M in 2021 could have been used to support students and to help them achieve their personal bests. Instead it was pissed away in DIE/CRT administrative bloat and oppression.

          31. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            I have had DEI-based leadership training though my company. While we did discuss the concept of unconscious biases, we never once, even remotely, referenced discrimination nor racism (individual or systemic). Anecdotal evidence is certainly not definitive, I know, but neither are selective quotations.

          32. Not Today Avatar
            Not Today

            Why should there be? Diversity is what we are/have as humans. We’re diverse by design. Equity is a goal. We should also aspire to treat others equitably. I’m not going to force you to wear clothes that don’t fit you just because that’s the uniform. Even the military has moved beyond that nonsense. It can be tailored to fit the body of the wearer and is designed with different body types in mind. Inclusion is basic.human.decency. Its opposite, exclusion, is hardly meritorious. Which of those aims are you fashed by?

      2. Not Today Avatar
        Not Today

        Again, you’re making statements that you cannot support. I could take five minutes and google critical inquiry into the role and effectiveness of DEI work from a variety of perspectives but you can too. To repeatedly choose not to is an indication of intellectual laziness. Arguments that lack rigor and evidence are not compelling and hardly relevant. You have no idea what you describe as ‘orthodoxy’ means in practice and, what’s more, seem to lack the will to find out.

      3. James McCarthy Avatar
        James McCarthy

        All higher Ed institutions? In VA? On the Eastern seaboard? East of the Mississippi? Do you truly believe that the inferences you draw concerning the amount of time expended on DEI activity is not dynamic with give and take? Seriously, such global characterizations are truly ineffective. Worse, you suggest the university’s web site contains no criticism of DEI. BR hardly accepts criticism. Now its sheriff deletes unwanted criticism while defending in commentary the right to praise an author’s viewpoint. This ambivalence IMO is an endemic fault in conservative thought in general.

  7. LarrytheG Avatar
    LarrytheG

    What could be interesting is for the folks who are opposed to DEI to cite some higher ed or corporate or NGOs who do NOT have DEI programs and any verbiage they provide explaining why they have chosen not to .

    I would very much like to hear the specific views on the merits beyond the “equal outcomes” argument.

    At this point many of the anti-DEI folks talk like it’s some kind of conspiracy that has spread and all the places that have adopted it have done so in pursuit of equal outcomes which is simply not the truth or reality and saying it is over and over won’t make it so either.

    1. Eric the half a troll Avatar
      Eric the half a troll

      As I said to Lefty, it may just be what one considers “equal outcome”. To me it is a concept that say if two people were to possess the same natural potential and were to exert equal effort, they would then achieve equally. The oft cited common sense phrase of “the world is not fair” would fall on deaf ears.

    2. Eric the half a troll Avatar
      Eric the half a troll

      As I said to Lefty, it may just be what one considers “equal outcome”. To me it is a concept that say if two people were to possess the same natural potential and were to exert equal effort, they would then achieve equally. The oft cited common sense phrase of “the world is not fair” would fall on deaf ears.

  8. VaPragamtist Avatar
    VaPragamtist

    Setting aside the DEI philosophy and arguments, I think you touch on a much bigger, more critical issue: how higher education costs are being driven by massive internal bureaucracies, the growth of which no one is controlling.

    Personnel are classified differently, depending on the university. At VT, there are faculty, staff, and “administrative/professional faculty”. This latter group–the mid-to-upper management level–are what I’m referring to.

    Occasionally RTD or some other publication will FOIA and publish the salaries of the highest paid employees. Much attention is given to athletics coaches, presidents, and fundraising professionals. I’m not talking about either, as their salaries more market-based, because they bring in more money than they take out. Same goes for the occasional faculty member who gets mid-six figures because they bring in millions in research grants. Set them all aside for now.

    At UVA, the salaries posted in your recent article are astronomical. VT is no different. For example, they recently advertised for a “chief of staff” to a senior VP, with a salary range of 175k – 225k. That’s not the SVP, not the salary of the VPs under the SVP, but the CoS who, according to the job description, has no direct reports. From a public employment perspective, I believe the low end of that range is the same salary as the governor. That’s more than the starting salary of his CoS and cabinet secretaries.

    Especially as higher ed always argues that the GA isn’t doing it’s fair share/raising tuition is necessary, I’d like to see someone dig into the data on these mid-to-upper level management positions. Over the last 20 years, how has administrative cost (salary + benefits) at the largest public universities increased? How does this compare to inflation, growth, and tuition increases?

    I think what we’ll find is that it’s not just the initiatives that drive up the cost, but rather the salaries that, in any other public sector, would be seen as absurd. But because universities exist in a bubble with their own funding mechanism (i.e. tuition), there is no controlling growth.

    1. LarrytheG Avatar
      LarrytheG

      I think arguments like this can be made with a wide variety or organizations. Corporations, NGOs, even counties and cities.

      Yes, we can force disclosure of salaries but how much does the average person really understand what the various positions in any of these entities are or should be?

      The attacks on DEI are purely partisan stuff IMO, not really rooted in an earnest attempt to look and understand the positions and the salaries.

      I’m not opposed to closer looks but it will take a lot more than a person or a group looking at a position or several positions and trying to determine should they exist and if so at what salary.

      It also appears that at least some of the DEI stuff is paper duties added to existing positions, as opposed to an entire new structure. The TATs seem to be that way.

      So what formal, law or mechanism would be needed to provide a real method to look at higher ed administrative functions, positions, costs?

      This is not necessarily and impossible task. Virginia HAS created this:

      Local Govt Comparative Reports:

      https://www.apa.virginia.gov/APA_Reports/LG_ComparativeReports.aspx

      One can compare counties/cities administrative, operational, maintenance costs for counties and schools.

      If such a requirement existed for Higher Ed, one COULD know more about them on a comparative basis.

      The idea that individual “smart or savvy” citizens can make the case, I’m pretty skeptical of especially if there is an obvious agenda.

    1. Not Today Avatar
      Not Today

      Thank you for this. I was unaware of Penn State’s retreat. It was on my youngest child’s preliminary list, along with Boston U/College and Georgetown, and now it’s…not. We have options and can vote with our feet and $$$.

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