The Governor’s Chronic Absenteeism Task Force – Part One – Failed Advice

Lisa Coons, Virginia Superintendent of Public Instruction

by James C. Sherlock

Governor Youngkin, in response to the real crisis in our schools, has established a Chronic Absenteeism Task Force led by the Virginia Superintendent of Public Instruction.

The Task Force is supported by the non-profit Attendance Works.

Attendance Works so dominates VDOE’s Attendance & School Engagement page that it can be deemed a key component of the home team.

That organization has teamed with FutureEd to write an updated Attendance Playbook (Playbook). The version at the link is a post-Covid update of an earlier edition that has been followed by VDOE in policy development since at least 2015.

The resulting complex and school-resource-heavy multi-tiered approach to improving attendance has proven inadequate to the task.

  • Using a baseline year of 2015-16, chronic absenteeism among all students statewide did not decline in a statistically significant way under the new program;
  • Group-to-group ratios and gaps in absenteeism statistics remained the same; and
  • Absenteeism rates doubled together for all groups after COVID.
A compilation from https://www.doe.virginia.gov/data-policy-funding/data-reports/data-collection/special-education

Home team policies have failed.

That is possibly because no Playbook policies provide evidence for improving attendance that has met the standards of the federal Department of Education’s (DOE) Institute of Education Sciences (IES) What Works Clearinghouse (WWC).

Which is DOE’s home team.

The rigorous standards of WWC are required by DOE guidance Using Evidence to Strengthen Education Investments (Using Evidence) for a reason.

“The Department emphasizes the use of evidence-based activities, strategies, and interventions (collectively referred to as “project components”) in the design of education programs from pre-kindergarten through adult education.”

“The Department’s WWC uses rigorous standards to review education research, offering evidence of effectiveness on a wide range of project components.”

“Organizations should select project components that are supported by the most rigorous evidence
available, consider the needs of the learner population being served, and consider the ability and
capacity of the organization to implement.”

They work.

A progressive approach. The Virginia Department of Education (VDOE) has been collaborating with Attendance Works for years. That coordination is cited in VDOE’s Attendance and School Engagement.

From Attendance Works mission statement:

…to shift away from punitive action and instead partner with students and families to address the challenges that prevent them from participating in learning. [Emphasis added.]

Read that whole page. Please.

You will not miss what they are about.

The updated Playbook published in May of this year offers post-pandemic dos and don’ts for reducing student absenteeism. Updated strategies look very much like the pre-Covid strategies.  

Playbook cites 500+ studies in support of its recommendations for and against various absenteeism interventions.  None of them have met WWC evidence standards for improving attendance.

Attendance Playbooks Three Tiers of Support.  Note above that Tier 2, Early Intervention, now commences when students are already chronically absent.  Thus, in an apparent bow to the failure of their pre-COVID prescriptions and post-Covid absenteeism rates, they re-define “early.”

Even Tier 3, Intensive Intervention, in which they somehow define post-Covid for “students missing 20% of school days or more,” avoids reference to holding parents accountable for their kids’ truancy.  

Piling on. There is more than one reason other than the use of interventions unproven to improve attendance that Virginia attendance policies have not moved the needle on absenteeism in general or changed the rates of individual groups.

From Using Evidence:

“Organizational capacity to effectively implement a project component is also important to consider”. (underlined in the reference)

Playbook

attendance interventions, fully implemented, are very demanding of the time of school professionals already stressed by the accumulations of such policies.

Virginia schools have a lot to do before they ever teach a single student in a classroom.

Consider Student Services. Among them are

  • Virginia Tiered Systems of Supports (VTSS)
  • Virginia Community School Framework
  • Student Assistance Programming
  • Social Emotional Learning (SEL)
  • Student Support and Conduct

Then there are all the Model Guidance and Model Policies.

Guidance like Positive and Preventive Code of Student Conduct Policy and Alternatives to Suspension.

Model policies like Ensuring Privacy, Dignity, and Respect for All Students and Parents in Virginia’s Public Schools.

Poor Playbook standards.  The editors of Playbook relied on a single researcher to find evidence of scientific validity and intervention effectiveness.

An important aspect of our analysis was gauging the quality of the research supporting absenteeism interventions.

That researcher unearthed a 28-page bibliography that supports those over 500 citations accepted by the editors.

Perhaps unsurprisingly, they support the preferred policies of the author and editors.

WWC was established in 2002 because educational research had earned a terrible reputation.  It is overseen by the National Academy of Sciences and chartered to assess and report the quality of educational research.  It identifies “well-designed studies, trustworthy research, and meaningful findings to inform decisions and improve student outcomes.”

WWC has assessed 3,053 studies in the field of education since 2003.  The rest of the available studies did not make the initial cut for referral to human assessment; 1,427 of 3,053 met design standards.

Assessing those for positive results,

  • 167 yielded strong evidence that the studied interventions worked;
  • 118 yielded moderate evidence;
  • 340 yielded promising evidence.

So, 625.

The 1,437 studies that WWC judged well-designed included only five studies of attendance (all topics). None of those five were assessed to provide statistically significant positive results about attendance interventions at any of those three levels of evidence.

WWC creates practice guides from those studies that meet standards and offer significant evidence of positive interventions. They are excellent resources.

There is, of course, no WWC practice guide for improving attendance.  Better evidence will need to be developed.

The only study on truancy that met minimal WWC standards is here. It met WWC standards “with reservations” but “showed no statistically significant positive findings.”

Contrast that with a search for “behavior” as a different example. Seventeen studies both met standards and had strong positive effects.

Observations.

  1. Virginia’s list of attendance interventions that took twelve instruction modules (recently deleted) to explain was unlikely to reliably function in school divisions already overburdened with those other bright, eminently progressive ideas of the schools of education.
  2. Virginia’s Attendance Works approach has failed to move the needle on attendance either before or after COVID;
  3. Policy recommendations offered by Attendance Works and accepted by VDOE have lacked any recommendations for what to do if the recommended interventions, none of which include enforcement, fail to work; and
  4. Attendance Works standards for both valid studies and proven evidence of the efficacy of attendance interventions have failed the test, not only of WWC reviews, but of multiple years of field results in Virginia.

Recommendations.   First.  

I recommend that Attendance Works be dismissed from assisting the Task Force.

    Second, I recommend that the Task Force consider any interventions to reduce excessive absenteeism in the context of the breathtaking range of other things that schools are expected to accomplish in addition to academic instruction.

   Third, What Works Clearinghouse standards are used by the federal Department of Education to judge applications for grants.  I recommend that the Virginia DOE make that its own standards for judging policies.

This will be a series.

Update. This article has been edited on Dec. 18, 2023 to align it with the book version.  The  original text that recommended changes to child neglect legislation has been moved to a Part Three.

See footnote for today’s changes to VDOE website on attendance.


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92 responses to “The Governor’s Chronic Absenteeism Task Force – Part One – Failed Advice”

  1. There is a YouTube livestream of the
    Virginia Chronic Absenteeism Task Force meeting today from 4:30-6 p.m. https://www.youtube.com/@virginiadepartmentofeducat1340/streams (Previous meetings are listed at https://www.doe.virginia.gov/teaching-learning-assessment/all-in-va/attendance-matters/chronic-absenteeism-task-force )

    Today’s agenda is:
    A. Welcome & Recap Superintendent Lisa Coons

    B. The Link between Student Attendance & Food Access Featuring No Kid Hungry·
    Spotlight: Breakfast After the Bell programs to reduce chronic absenteeism and improve other student outcomes

    Strategies for implementing successful meal programs

    C. Developing Your Plan: Facilitating Shared Chronic Absenteeism Plans
    Superintendent Lisa Coons & Deputy Secretary of Education Emily Anne Gullickson

    D.Close Out
    Next Steps
    Region Share-Outs

    1. Kathleen Smith Avatar
      Kathleen Smith

      If you think Item B is a joke, think again. I had elementary kids cry if they came late and missed breakfast. In Petersburg, morning hunger is a problem, even at the high school where students act out instead of crying.

      1. James C. Sherlock Avatar
        James C. Sherlock

        In Carol’s defense, she did not indicate in any way that food access is a joke. She just detailed the agenda.

      2. LarrytheG Avatar

        almost sounds like the food actually encourages attendance…..

        1. Kathleen Smith Avatar
          Kathleen Smith

          Food most certainly does improve attendance.

          1. Lefty665 Avatar

            and learning.

        2. James C. Sherlock Avatar
          James C. Sherlock

          Of course it does.

      3. Kathleen Smith Avatar
        Kathleen Smith

        No, she did not, but some will. My comment was only meant for those that do see it as a joke. Sorry Carol.

  2. Kathleen Smith Avatar
    Kathleen Smith

    This is a good review of something very few principals have actually used — Attendance Works. Good principals and good local division folks know it is useless.

    Don’t despair, your recommendations are good.

    I would reiterate the use of Juvenile Justice funds for somehow gathering folks from education, law enforcement and social services to make headway on this problem.

    Has it occurred to anyone that there maybe some connection between student disorder and absenteeism? Certainly, some kids are not happy with attending a disorderly classroom on a regular basis.

    What about pop culture? How much of this problem is outside the realm of educators? Much to learn.

    Parents?????

    1. LarrytheG Avatar

      re: ” there maybe some connection between student disorder and absenteeism? ”

      could be.. but the numbers are way worse for the economically disadvantaged.. as a subgroup.

      I just think when a kid has not done well with the foundational basics , reading, writing, math, etc… they’re not going to do well on the subjects that require good foundation skills.

      and when a kid does not do well in a class or school, their motivation for attendance is probably not good.

      Everything I’ve read on this says that there are many different reasons for chronic attendance, and that’s why the multi-tier approach has been favored. There is no silver bullet solution.

      Would be interesting and informative if other approaches are being used and are more successful.

      1. Kathleen Smith Avatar
        Kathleen Smith

        Good point. The data shows many kids behind.

    2. James C. Sherlock Avatar
      James C. Sherlock

      The task force has hired Attendance Works for support, Kathleen.

      I have watched every task force meeting online, and the AW rep has a lot – way too much in my view – to say.

      As for state absenteeism policy, it is currently straight AW dogma, no matter how many principals use it or don’t.

      1. Kathleen Smith Avatar
        Kathleen Smith

        I wonder why government edicts don’t work? I once had a third grader who refused to take the SOL assessment. Living in government housing, when asked why, he said, “Too much government interference.” I was impressed.

    1. walter smith Avatar
      walter smith

      3rd lowest illegitimacy rate?
      Still too high at 27.2%, but that is good enough for 3rd place….
      If someone wanted to try to get to the truth, one might measure two factors in particular. Illegitimacy and race.
      Illegitimacy is a negative for all races, but I think there is also an extremely negative, self-defeating cultural component among blacks with “acting white.”
      Tragic. Of course, if the schools weren’t so awful, maybe more blacks and whites would attend more willingly.

    2. Kathleen Smith Avatar
      Kathleen Smith

      It is small, mostly rural, and you can get a handle on causes.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar

        Looks like Tennessee (the state that Lisa Coons came from) has used Attendance Works.-

        1. Kathleen Smith Avatar
          Kathleen Smith

          Your contacts follow you.

    3. Teddy007 Avatar

      It is the second most mormom state. However, look up the performance of its state universities. Failure factories.

  3. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
    Dick Hall-Sizemore

    Contrary to your assumption, Supt. Coons probably is aware of Attendance Works. Here is a website from the Tennessee Dept. of Education (where she worked prior to coming to Virginia). Click on the link on the right side entitled, “Back to School Attendance Toolkit”. Download the file. Click on the folder that appears. Click on the first item in the folder. That document acknowledges Attendance Works as “the source of much of the information provided in this toolkit.” It goes on to call Attendance Works “a national leader in the area of chronic absenteeism.” That might explain why she included that organization on Virginia’s task force.

    1. James C. Sherlock Avatar
      James C. Sherlock

      I was trying to give her maneuvering room.

    2. It goes on to call Attendance Works “a national leader in the area of chronic absenteeism.”

      There is more than one way to interpret that statement…

      1. Lefty665 Avatar

        Have we achieved our chronic absentee best, or is there still more to strive for? 🙂

  4. Task force, schmask force.

    Is there some reason why school systems cannot simply enforce Virginia’s Compulsory Attendance law?

    https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacodefull/title22.1/chapter14/article1/

    1. walter smith Avatar
      walter smith

      Well….
      Just spitballin’ here…
      If the arrestees/truants are disprportionately POC, won’t that “prove” Youngkin and his policies are….raaaaaacist?
      (Even though if the detained are disproportionately POC, it hurts their education…)
      Better question – where are the parents?

    2. Matt Hurt Avatar

      School divisions don’t have the statutory powers to enforce laws. All they can do is comply with them by pressing truancy charges. It’s up to the court system to enforce the law.

  5. James Wyatt Whitehead Avatar
    James Wyatt Whitehead

    Captain! I watched portions of the Task Force Video 12/5. They spent an hour talking about breakfast. I don’t think donuts and a glass of milk will move the needle very much. Looking over the list of who is on the task force. Not one attendance secretary from any public school. Instead, we have Doctor so and so and Doctor whooseefarts. Attendance Works? Should have dumped that yesterday.

    It is unfortunate that our governor is giving this due attention only and no more. More unfortunate that the incoming GA session will simply be incapable of addressing this issue.

    Now more than ever…get your kid out of public education.

    1. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
      Dick Hall-Sizemore

      What could/should the General Assembly do? The law now authorizes schools to hire attendance officers and to take parents to court if they do not cooperate in getting their kids to school. https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/title22.1/chapter14/section22.1-258/

      Despite your and James Sherlock’s protestations, the Youngkin Dept. of Education is a big admirer of Attendance Works. https://www.doe.virginia.gov/programs-services/student-services/attendance-school-engagement

      1. James Wyatt Whitehead Avatar
        James Wyatt Whitehead

        Mr. Larry he is right! But only if the clock was turned back to ten years ago. No. There is something much larger going on with chronic absenteeism today. The numbers show it. It has never been like this before except maybe during the era of the Great Depression. I don’t think anyone has accurately captured what is actually going on with our schools today.

    2. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
      Dick Hall-Sizemore

      What could/should the General Assembly do? The law now authorizes schools to hire attendance officers and to take parents to court if they do not cooperate in getting their kids to school. https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/title22.1/chapter14/section22.1-258/

      Despite your and James Sherlock’s protestations, the Youngkin Dept. of Education is a big admirer of Attendance Works. https://www.doe.virginia.gov/programs-services/student-services/attendance-school-engagement

      1. James Wyatt Whitehead Avatar
        James Wyatt Whitehead

        I expect nothing from the General Assembly. If I were superintendent for a day I would want the list of chronically absent students sent immediately to my desk as soon as school takes attendance. I would then go down the hallway and pullout every bean counter and bureaucrat in the school board office and ask them to follow me. Next I would hand out keys to school board vehicles and addresses of the chronically absent. Now we are on the road knocking on doors and demanding why the chronically absent are not marked present. A ride to school should be offered. If it refused I would then turn this matter over to the judges and the courts. If a barrier to attendance comes to light I would use all resources available to the school board to remove that barrier. That is what I would do. I am not a fan of Attendance works or the VDOE’s patched tire approach to the problem. Too wonky, too cumbersome, wastes gobs of time, no immediate proven results. This problem is not in the governors wheelhouse. He is Ex Carlyle Group big shot. Personally I think he is taking the easy way out by leaning on the Attendance Works crutch. I looked over all the material. Not impressed. We don’t have time to fool around with this issue.

        1. Teddy007 Avatar

          In a short day with a lot to do, why focus on the worst students and those students who do not want to learn.

          Every other students just learns that the worst students are the most important to leadership while those who want to learn are unimportant.

          1. James Wyatt Whitehead Avatar
            James Wyatt Whitehead

            I hear you Mr. Teddy. Some truth in that statement. But if we throw in the towel with the worst students the left will whack us over the head with the “pipe line to prison” meme.

          2. Teddy007 Avatar

            That is why making school voluntary works better. It takes the argument away from the progressives and can be sold as more freedom, more learning, better performance.

          3. LarrytheG Avatar

            I agree and think Conservatives should campaign on that theme!

          4. Lefty665 Avatar

            why focus on…

            Because the Constitution, with equal protection of the laws and due process.

            Since we provide public education with tax dollars ALL kids are guaranteed an education, not just the easy ones. If we care about kids, and some of us do, reaching those kids who are not as inspired as the ones you value is important too.

            “Every other students just learns that the worst students are the most important to leadership while those who want to learn are unimportant.”

            Utter conjecture with no support. You are just making it up.

        2. LarrytheG Avatar

          I’d be happy to dump Attendance Works if I knew of another approach that was proven and not just some yahoos own idea off the top of their head…

        3. I just want to say I do not think you are a yahoo. I also know for a fact the process you proposed above did not come off the top of your head, because I read one of your past posts describing how you essentially did exactly what you propose – not as a superintendent, but as an individual teacher.

          1. James Wyatt Whitehead Avatar
            James Wyatt Whitehead

            Thanks Mr. Wayne! This problem can be cut back to the smallest of numbers. My old school spent 12 million dollars to install gender neutral bathrooms. Surely, they can spend 12 million dollars to hire a “Roundup Wagon Crew”. Go get those kids. My bet is a vast majority will take the ride. One ride will be enough for most. Then we have that small slice with legitimate barriers. Now the Roundup Wagon Crew can bring those barriers into the light and figure out the resources needed to remove those barriers.

          2. I agree with you.

            I think knowing that even one adult/authority figure genuinely cares about their success is all a lot of underprivileged/neglected kids need to motivate them to work towards success. A little self esteem goes a long way.

            It sounds corny but I still think it’s true.

  6. Teddy007 Avatar

    I have never understood mandatory attendance for high school students. Make high school voluntary and remove schools as a focus point for teen rebellion. The culture of the schools will improve, the students who want to learn will benefit, and it will save money that is currently spent on trouble makers.

    1. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
      Dick Hall-Sizemore

      One benefit is to prevent parents from keeping their teenagers out of school and making them work– on the farm, in the family business, in another job to support the family, at home taking care of younger children, etc.

      1. Teddy007 Avatar

        One of the drivers of chronic truancy is the parent (almost always single mom) forcing the older kid to stay home and care for the sick younger children.

    2. LarrytheG Avatar

      Is there a belief that keeping them in school keeps deters them from becoming criminals and/or helps them become productive citizens that do not require entitlements?

      Is the US among all the developed countries any worse on attendance and graduation?

      How about this – If you won’t attend school, you’ll get drafted into the military and guys
      like the Capt will get you straight? 😉

      1. Teddy007 Avatar

        The last thing the military needs is people who cannot show up, cannot follow directions, and love to focus on authority figures for rebellion. The same applies that there is some secret method of discipline or motivation that will get teenagers to do things that they hate.

        1. LarrytheG Avatar

          I keep hearing from older folks that the military “straightened them out” and got them back
          on track to get educated (with GI benefits) and do “right”! 😉

          1. Teddy007 Avatar

            Those old people are fools. The military only needs people who want to be there. The military does not need people who need babysitters.

          2. LarrytheG Avatar

            don’t really disagree. But 16,17,18 is a pretty young age to ruin your life and impose burden and harm on others inthe process.

          3. Teddy007 Avatar

            The biggest cause of teens screwing up is the acts of rebellion that are aim at them for either mandatory things (like school) or its good for you or its will lead to a better life later. Takes those away, end the soft world of teenagers, and they will turn out better and more will be better students.

          4. Wait a minute. Who are you to tell someone else which of their life experiences did or did not put them on the right path?

          5. Wait a minute. Who are you to tell someone else which of their life experiences did or did not put them on the right path?

          6. Wait a minute. Who are you to tell someone else which of their life experiences did or did not put them on the right path?

    3. Lefty665 Avatar

      Let’s try it one more time. Our public schools, paid for with tax dollars from all of us, are for ALL kids, not just the easy ones. What you continually advocate is illegal.

      1. Teddy007 Avatar

        What part of making high school voluntary is keeping kids out of the schools. Compare that to mandating that teens who want to rebel against high school and society make the learning environment worse, more dangerous, and more expensive. If high school was voluntary, then all the students showing up at school are, by definition, wanting to learn.

        1. Lefty665 Avatar

          We all pay for public schools, and we have established that education is a public good.

          That means we educate all kids, not just the easy ones. You would be rightfully outraged if we educated my kids and said screw yours.

          What you are advocating is illegal as well as immoral and fattening.

          1. Teddy007 Avatar

            Voluntary schools would educated all kids that show up. The only difference is that if a student is not interested in learning, they do not need to show up in order to rebel against adults. And if anyone believes that one can really educate students who who do not want to learn, then one knows nothing about teaching or education. 13th grade is currently voluntary. Why not just move the system down to 9th grade while leaving grades 9-12 free, open to everyone, and local.

          2. Lefty665 Avatar

            You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make him think.

          3. Teddy007 Avatar

            A lesson known by anyone who has ever tried to teach teenagers. Make high school a place for academic learning and move the rebellion and teen angst somewhere else.

          4. Lefty665 Avatar

            Discrimination is illegal when using public money, and especially so when implementing a public good. You are advocating criminal conduct. Did you learn that in school?

          5. Teddy007 Avatar

            What part of making high school voluntary from the view of the students is discriminatory. I never understand people who think they are being clever by intentionally misunderstanding someone or something. There is no discrimination is making school voluntary. There is not reduction of a public good by making high school voluntary from the POV of the students. There is nothing criminal by stopping the taking of attendance, tracking who is supposed to be in school, or reporting attendance to the state.

            Making schools for the students who want to learn. What can be wrong with that?

          6. Lefty665 Avatar

            “I never understand people who think they are being clever by intentionally misunderstanding someone or something.”

            Perhaps if you had been paying more attention in class you would understand our Constitution, form of government, and would have gained more insight into your anti constitutional advocacy.

          7. Teddy007 Avatar

            First, education is not mentioned in the Constitution. Second, there is nothing about equal protection that would be violated by making school voluntary. Once again, no one ever looks clever by intentionally misunderstanding something and then overreacting.

          8. Lefty665 Avatar

            “no one ever looks clever by intentionally misunderstanding something and then overreacting.”

            That is so profoundly true, and you are a perfect exemplar. Thank you for providing an exquisite illustration for your comment.

            What the Constitution does mention is equal protection and due process. That means when we provide a public good, as we do with public schools, it is guaranteed to all the people, not just those who are easy to serve.

            Whitehead below describes an effective way to get kids to school. It is one that he has himself implemented.

          9. Teddy007 Avatar

            For the third time, how does making high school voluntary violate equal protection. Any kid who wants to show up just shows up and tries to learn. Those not interested in learning can go somewhere else.

          10. Lefty665 Avatar

            I’ll try to see if I can help you understand the basic concepts of our Constitution, although you have tempted me to just throw you out as uninterested in learning as you advocate for many kids.

            In the United States we have determined that an educated populace is good for both individuals and the country. We use public funding coming from all of us to provide those educational services.

            Once we determine that we have a public good to achieve, whether it be schools, national defense, postal service, Social Security, etc and our representatives (those people we elect to the board of supervisors, the general assembly and congress) legislate that public good then ALL citizens are guaranteed access to that good. That is what we call equal protection of the laws, and it is protected by our Constitutional guarantee of due process. You cannot say, as you do, that some people get the public good and some do not.

            Many of our schools are problematic as has been discussed many times here on BR, and I have been pretty vocal about what is wrong and an advocate fixing them.

            To meet the due process requirements our schools have a 3 tier setup. The first is regular classrooms that deal at least marginally with most of the kids. The second is special education classrooms devoted to teaching kids with learning disabilities. The third is alternative educational settings to serve kids mostly with severe behavioral issues but some with profound learning disabilities. Other non classroom services support those classroom settings. They include things like counseling and discipline.

            There is another structure, legislated as the Children’s Services Act in Virginia, made up of representatives of the schools, community services, social services, rehabilitative services and courts, to deal with kids whose disabilities are so severe that the individual organizations cannot serve them appropriately.

            Not all kids are able to be served in common public school settings, but they are served. Those settings recognize that one size does not fit all. That is how our schools and children’s services are designed to meet the Constitutional equal protection and due process requirements.

            Hope this helps you understand why we can’t simply dump students who are not easy, and the structures we have established to provide equal protection and due process. They are our better angels and separate us from lesser forms of government on a good day.

          11. Teddy007 Avatar

            Once again, no one looks clever by intentionally misunderstanding something and trying to make it a federal case. If high school is voluntary, all students can still go to school. Thus everyone has access to the public good and everyone gets the same public good. To argue for separate and unequal public goods was settled in 1954. But keeping intentionally misunderstanding the idea that if the 13th grade is voluntary, then the 11th grade can be voluntary. I understand the your entire premise in build to the incredibily stupid idea that students can be forced to learn, that schools are better off trying to force students to learn, and that students who want to learn are better off in classroom with students who refuse to learn. No wonder most schools have severe problems. People keep refusing to deal with the world as it is and want to deal with a pretend word for status purposes.

          12. Teddy007 Avatar

            And considering how much failure there is in schools, how much schools are asked to do outside of academic education, how much is spent, and how the teachers unions are one of the most hated groups in the U.S., such a map makes sense. As I recently heard, schools focus on activity instead of accomplishments. Mandatory schooling for teenagers is a very good example of focusing on activity that focus on the highest hanging, hardest to reach fruit to the detriment of all other students.

          13. One thing I think we could count on would be a lot more punk rock bands being formed…

          14. Teddy007 Avatar

            Punk Rock is dead. Rock bands are basically dead except for nostalgia act. Look at Billboards top 100. Rap, divas, and bro country.

    4. Nancy Naive Avatar
      Nancy Naive

      Money. Those federal dollars depend on attendance. But if you remove attendance as a requirement, the administration would do its level best to drive every student out.

      1. Teddy007 Avatar

        I doubt it would drive every student out if money is still tied to attendance. The schools would drive out the worst students and try to create a better situation for the middle of the road students.

        1. Nancy Naive Avatar
          Nancy Naive

          Would they? Drive out the middle of the roaders and *poof* your standardized test scores go through the roof. Win-win.

          We have created untenable situations in our schools in just sooo many ways.

    5. I still have my doubts, but I am starting to come around to agreeing with you on this issue.

      If we were to try it, I would want to require parental permission for a student to “drop-out” and I would limit it to 16-years old or older.

      I also think there would need to be some process by which the local school (the one the kid should be attending) would need to consent to the teen dropping out.

      Maybe even a requirement that they have a job of some kind?

      Or maybe don’t let them drop out completely, but put them in a vocational school?

      Allowing an immature teenager to drop out school completely is a drastic measure and I’m not sure it is best for the kids, even if they really, really, really don’t want to be there.

      I’m going to have to give this one some more thought.

      1. Teddy007 Avatar

        With all of those gatekeepers, it is really just a want to hide the fact that attendance is mandatory. Why not focus on the benefits of having schools filled with students who want to learn and without as many trouble makers.

        1. Lefty665 Avatar

          You keep advocating the same thing and expecting a different answer,

          Why not? Because of our Constitutional guarantees of equal protection of the laws and due process. You are arguing against our form of government and what has made us special.

      2. Lefty665 Avatar

        There is a public benefit to a literate populace. We all suffer when we embrace an illiterate underclass. Not only are their lives stunted, fit only for street corner life and (mostly) petty crime and violence, but they prey also on the rest of us. It is more expensive to lock people up than to educate them with living skills that give the opportunity to live honest lives like reading, writing, arithmetic, and showing up.

        Education is the opportunity for a decent life. It is in our own self own interest to educate the harder to reach as well as compassionate.

        An old bumper sticker that still has merit:

        If you think education is expensive, try ignorance.

        1. Teddy007 Avatar

          There is little connection between forcing students who do not want to learn to attend school and literacy. However, trying to retain troublemakers does not make harder for the marginal students to learn.

          1. Lefty665 Avatar

            My comment was not to you, and your anti democracy rant is not constructive. You should have been paying more attention in government class.

            We have segregated educational settings for those kids whose behavior or learning issues mean they are not able to be served in regular classrooms, just as we have special education classes for kids with learning disabilities.

            Those are needed to meet Constitutional requirements for equal protection of the laws and due process guaranteed to all citizens. They are not optional just because you do not approve.

            Throwing kids out with the garbage as you advocate is the road to Hell without the good intentions. You would solve behavior or chronic absentee problems by dumping kids from the rolls.

            That is a perfect example of if doing things right fails, lower your standards.

  7. LarrytheG Avatar

    How did Wyoming go from top 5 to one of the worst?

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/bdba585d30972c8ac8bbf7c3b5f1688e1969cd2a1b6b478a740708469528fef2.png

    Are there ANY states that don’t use Attendance Works?

    Are there any other formal programs besides Attendance Works that may be considered “better”?

    1. Teddy007 Avatar

      If one looks at NAEP scores broken out by race, New Jersey and Conn. do the best in education. Where one has to look at the results for white students only. If one does not. all one is noticing is the percentage of the public schools that are white.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar

        what does that mean?

        1. Teddy007 Avatar

          When comparing states and the quality of their public education system, one should use NAEP scores since the same test is given to all 50 states and one should limit the comparisons. Thus, one needs to compare the NAEP scores for non-Hispanic whites students only to limit confounding variable. It would be even better to compare results for non-hispanic whites of children whose parents are college graduates.

          1. LarrytheG Avatar

            so NAEP has the subgroup scores?

            If a state has a high scoring NAEP score – does that mean the higher scoring kids scored
            so high as to offset the low-scoring students or that NAEP is testing schools with minimal numers of low scoring students?

          2. Teddy007 Avatar

            One can look up NAEP scores by state and by demographic group is each state if there are enough minorities to create a significant group. And my understanding, one gets the mean score for each group. So if one wants to try to nitpick the NAEP, knock yourself out at the Department of Education website for it.

          3. LarrytheG Avatar

            no. I truly don’t understand it and I feel like I need to if I’m gonna draw some conclusions. My
            impression is that NAEP tests only a few schools and they are selected according to demographics
            that would be representative if all schools were selected and tested.

            I think NAEP collects a lot of data… but not sure were it is.

            I know where the NAEP state level rankings are but maybe not where the state is with it’s subgroups.

            I don’t know at all if they correlate subgroups with absenteeism…

          4. Teddy007 Avatar

            I have never heard or read absenteeism when it comes to NAEP tests. However, some states, like Texas, have been accused in making sure that the worst students do not take the test. Here is a link to an old article concerning NAEP test and to compare states. https://iowahawk.typepad.com/iowahawk/2011/03/longhorns-17-badgers-1.html

          5. LarrytheG Avatar

            seems like if that were true and NAEP actually was complicit, i.e. knowingly allow the selection of
            schools to be manipulated, – NAEP itself would be undermined and not considered credible, no?

  8. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
    Dick Hall-Sizemore

    I think it would be very worthwhile for you to present your findings to the task force at its next public meeting.

  9. Lefty665 Avatar

    Attendance Works mission statement “Attendance Works promotes equal opportunities to learn and advances student success by reducing chronic absence.”

    As stated:

    The mission is “promotes equal opportunities to learn”
    A goal is “advances student success”.
    A procedure to achieve that goal is “by reducing chronic absence”.

    Don’t believe I’ve ever before seen a mission statement that relegates its eponymous mission to a procedure in support of a goal, or that includes goals and procedures in its mission statement. If the organization’s mission is to reduce chronic absence that would be the mission statement. It is not.

    It is little wonder Attendance Works has failed to help reduce chronic absenteeism when its mission is reducing inequality. Reducing chronic absenteeism is only one of several procedures advocated to achieve a goal of improving student success that is in support of the mission of reducing inequality.

    The stated mission is not what the organization’s name advocates. At least that’s what it looks like from reading the entire page as Sherlock encouraged us to do.

    It is pretty straight forward, in organizational hierarchy we have, in descending order:

    Vision
    Mission
    Goals
    Objectives
    Policies
    Procedures

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