The Facts of the Matter


“You are entitled to your opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts.”
— Daniel Patrick Moynihan: 


Dear President Ryan, Provost Baucom, and the Board of Visitors,

The former New York senator’s famous quotation perfectly describes the October 8 statement posted by the “Students for Justice in Palestine at UVAon its Instagram page.

I firmly and unequivocally believe in the First Amendment. Any individual student or group must be allowed to speak their mind, as long as their statements do not violate University policy or Virginia law. However, there are numerous falsehoods in the SJP statement. I will cite three particularly egregious ones:

  1. Students for Justice in Palestine unequivocally supports Palestinian liberation and the right of colonized people everywhere to resist the occupation of their land by whatever means they deem necessary.”
  2. While the Israeli government publicly declared war today, the war and genocidal campaign began over 75 years ago.”
  3. The people of Gaza are denied freedom of movement, are under calorie restrictions, and are routinely bombed and brutalized by Israeli forces.”

The three statements above are both factually wrong and morally outrageous. Below are the facts:

  1. The first statement to “resist by whatever means they deem necessary” overtly condones the murder, rape, mutilation and beheading of babies perpetrated by the Hamas terrorists on Israelis. This is reprehensible and proves the twisted, blind hatred these students possess toward Israel and Jews.
  2. Israel was not the aggressor for the past 75 years. The Israelis only responded to attacks by other Middle Eastern Islamic countries or terrorist organizations like the PLO, Hamas and Hezbollah. They defended their country against unprovoked aggression, just as any country would. Those are the facts. SJT’s description is an historically inaccurate lie. Period.
  3. SJP’s comment about “people of Gaza being denied freedom of movement” is completely fallacious. Gaza Palestinians have over 100,000 work permits. Tens of thousands of Palestinians crossed into Israel daily before the Hamas invasion, pursing higher pay and secure jobs for themselves and their families. Palestinians are not “routinely bombed and brutalized by Israeli forces.” To the contrary, even now Israel is only attacking military sites. Hamas places non-combatant Palestinian civilians in and around their military command centers, artillery and missile sites. Any civilian casualties are the result of Hamas’ barbaric policy to put civilians – women and children – in harm’s way. Israel cannot be blamed for that.

The Jewish people’s history in Palestine dates to 1200 B.C. where the tribes of Israel and Judah resided for over 400 years. Beginning with the Assyrians in 800 B.C., the Jewish people have been displaced or under other nations’ colonial rule for over two millennia until Israel was granted independent statehood by the United Nations in 1947, then was immediately attacked by neighboring Arab countries. Israel is not a “colonizer” as SJP falsely claims. To the contrary, Israel was historically colonized and has merely sought independence and peaceful coexistence with surrounding Arab countries. Numerous attempts to consummate peace agreements have been thwarted due to the Palestinians’ unwillingness to acknowledge the independence of Israel as a sovereign nation.

Any rational, objective person knows the October 7 Hamas invasion of Gaza was an act of barbarism. Israeli citizens were murdered with documented cases of rape and beheading of children. Hamas terrorists proudly displayed these atrocities on their cell phones. Labeling Israel the aggressor, much less being guilty of genocide, is patently absurd.

The 163 Students for Justice in Palestine chapters across American campuses are not benignly protesting for Palestinian rights. They are actively promoting violent anti-Semitism, attacking pro-Israeli students. The news reports are rife with Jewish students professing constant fear concerning the pervasively hostile environment they are experiencing on campuses with documented cases of physical and psychological harassment. Jewish students at the University of Virginia have expressed similar concerns given social media attacks they are experiencing.

The October 25 UVA pro-Hamas student walkout included two demands: stop the siege on Gaza along with U.S. funding for Israel; insist that the University Administration explicitly acknowledge that the Israeli attacks on the Gaza Strip are genocide. By supporting Hamas, these students also support its core premise for the destruction of Israel, clearly enumerated in The Covenant for Hamas.

President Ryan and the BOV, can you really abide by such actions and statements without commenting on them? Hamas has been designated a terrorist organization by the U.S., U.K., European Union, OAS and many other countries. By supporting them, SJP is in direct violation of University policy and two Virginia statutes:

  1. Virginia Statute 18.2-46.5: “Any person who knowingly provides any material support (i) to an individual or organization whose primary objective is to commit an act of terrorism and (ii) does so with the intent to further such individual’s or organization’s objective is guilty of a Class 3 felony.”
  2. Virginia Statute 18.2-422: “It shall be unlawful for any person over 16 years of age to, with the intent to conceal his identity, wear any mask, hood or other device whereby a substantial portion of the face is hidden or covered so as to conceal the identity of the wearer, to be or appear in any public place, or upon any private property in this Commonwealth without first having obtained from the owner or tenant thereof consent to do so in writing.”

It is time for President Ryan and the Board to take a firm stand and unequivocally defend Israel. Condemn the Students for Justice in Palestine at UVA for their blatantly prejudicial anti-Semitic message and ban them from the Grounds for their violation of University and Commonwealth of Virginia statutes. Doing so does not suppress intellectual diversity and free speech. Rather it affirms the core morality UVA should stand for.

For God’s sake (literally) have the moral courage to stand up for the truth.

Sincerely,

Tom Neale
College ’74
Baltimore, MD

Tom Neale is president of The Jefferson Council. The views expressed here are his own. This column has been republished with permission from the Jefferson Council blog.


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60 responses to “The Facts of the Matter”

  1. James C. Sherlock Avatar
    James C. Sherlock

    Bravo.

  2. Eric the half a troll Avatar
    Eric the half a troll

    “The October 25 UVA pro-Hamas student walkout included two demands: stop the siege on Gaza along with U.S. funding for Israel; insist that the University Administration explicitly acknowledge that the Israeli attacks on the Gaza Strip are genocide. By supporting Hamas, these students also support its core premise for the destruction of Israel, clearly enumerated in The Covenant for Hamas.

    By supporting them, SJP is in direct violation of University policy and two Virginia statutes:

    Virginia Statute 18.2-46.5: “Any person who knowingly provides any material support (i) to an individual or organization whose primary objective is to commit an act of terrorism and (ii) does so with the intent to further such individual’s or organization’s objective is guilty of a Class 3 felony.””

    Ummm… first, even if we agree that the students have no 1st amendment rights to make the statement they made (we don’t, btw) making such a protected statement is not material support. This has become a pattern of the Jefferson Council representatives here at BR – first state they support the 1st amendment then trample all over it in their piece.

    1. Wahoo'74 Avatar
      Wahoo’74

      Because “freedom of speech” does not include supporting homicidal terrorists, Eric. What part of that don’t you get? Are you truly that insensitive or obtuse?

      1. Eric the half a troll Avatar
        Eric the half a troll

        Again the Brandenburg test says it does. Please edit your comment to remove the personal attack.

  3. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
    Dick Hall-Sizemore

    “I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it” Attributed to Voltaire

    I agree that the Oct. 7 attack by Hamas was despicable and an atrocity. However, in your statement of “facts”, some perspective is needed.

    1. Israel is not the aggressor and not a colonizer. Constantly building settlements in what is supposed to be Palestinian territory and pushing Palestinians out of their home seems pretty aggressive and is the mark of a colonizer.
    2. Allowing people from Gaza to Israeli-controlled territory if they have work permits is not exactly “freedom of movement”.
    3. Violation of University policy and state law. Sec. 18.2-46.5–What “material” support has SJP provided to Hamas?
    18.2-422–Masks? Really?
    What University policy has been violated? You assert that people must be allowed to speak their mind as long as they don’t violate University policy. Do you really believe or advocate that? Suppose it were University policy that residential halls would no longer be co-ed. Would students be forbidden to speak their minds about that and banned if they did so?

    1. Dick Hall-Sizemore:
      2. Allowing people from Gaza to Israeli-controlled territory if they have work permits is not exactly “freedom of movement”.

      It didn’t start out that way. Every fortification and restriction came about as a direct result of attacks from Gaza after all Israeli settlements were removed and Israel pulled out.

      Dick Hall-Sizemore:
      “Constantly building settlements in what is supposed to be Palestinian territory and pushing Palestinians out of their home seems pretty aggressive and is the mark of a colonizer.”

      Building homes in disputed territory will never excuse the planned purposeful slaughter of innocent families and children.

      If Arabs had accepted the 1947 Partition Plan (or numerous others) those lands would be Palestinian. Instead they made war with Israel.

      If the Palestinians want peace, they can begin the process by stopping their indoctrination of hate for Jews into their children.

      If you would like to examine Palestinian textbooks used for grades 1 – 12 I will gladly show you. There can never be peace in a situation where hate is mandatory instruction of the youth.

    2. Dick Hall-Sizemore:
      2. Allowing people from Gaza to Israeli-controlled territory if they have work permits is not exactly “freedom of movement”.

      It didn’t start out that way. Every fortification and restriction came about as a direct result of attacks from Gaza after all Israeli settlements were removed and Israel pulled out.

      Dick Hall-Sizemore:
      “Constantly building settlements in what is supposed to be Palestinian territory and pushing Palestinians out of their home seems pretty aggressive and is the mark of a colonizer.”

      Building homes in disputed territory will never excuse the planned purposeful slaughter of innocent families and children.

      If Arabs had accepted the 1947 Partition Plan (or numerous others) those lands would be Palestinian. Instead they made war with Israel.

      If the Palestinians want peace, they can begin the process by stopping their indoctrination of hate for Jews into their children.

      If you would like to examine Palestinian textbooks used for grades 1 – 12 I will gladly show you. There can never be peace in a situation where hate is mandatory instruction of the youth.

    3. Mr. Hall-Sizemore,

      Why don’t the same principles applied to Israel, also apply to Arabs?

      Israel is 20 percent Palestinian. Palestinians live, work, vote and hold political office in Israel.

      But Jews living in “Palestinian territory” cannot be tolerated, and their presence is used as justification for mass murder. Why aren’t Arabs expected to also have democratic and pluralistic societies?

      Are Jews given right of return to Arab lands? (or numerous other places where they have been expelled or fled)

  4. William O'Keefe Avatar
    William O’Keefe

    These students have been brainwashed and are incapable of holding two thoughts simultaneously. Hamas has ruled Gaza for years. Its October 7 invasion was a terrorist act that violated all accepted rules of war.
    The Israeli-Palestinian conflict has enough guilt for both parties. The rejection of a two state solution, the continued expansion by building settlements, and the anti-Israel hostility by the Arab world makes a lasting peace unachievable.
    Students can say what they want but if they walk out and create conflict on campus, the solutions are easy–failing grades and expulsion. The Administration needs to take a firm stand.

  5. “colonizer” has become a pejorative on college campuses. Does that apply everywhere, or just where it fits the narrative? And how far back do we go?

    Hamas sympathizers in the area frequently use the “colonizer” as well. I was particularly amused when the leader of Turkey used that term in a negative way.

    The Epic Story of How the Turks Migrated From Central Asia to Turkey

    https://thediplomat.com/2016/06/the-epic-story-of-how-the-turks-migrated-from-central-asia-to-turkey/#:~:text=In%20the%20second%20half%20of,Altai%20mountains%20of%20western%20Mongolia.

    1. Stephen Haner Avatar
      Stephen Haner

      Our ancestors were “colonizers” and so where the Brits in Ireland and Scotland. The Germans in Eastern Europe. The Russians in Ukraine. The battle over “lebensraum” or resources like oil is not just part of history, it is the major theme of history.

      1. Eric the half a troll Avatar
        Eric the half a troll

        “…so where the Brits in Ireland and Scotland…”

        The Scots might want to take issue with that statement.

        1. LarrytheG Avatar

          it seems like some kind of variant to ” everybody did it”!

        2. “Our ancestors were ‘colonizers’”

          And thus we are oppressors.

          “…it is the major theme of history”

          Exactly. All humans originally came from Africa, did we not?

          EDIT:
          Sorry, I meant to reply to Mr. Haner.

      2. Were it not for all the oil located in Arab countries, the British would have likely partitioned the land and that would have been the end of it. Arab oil gave them the ability to scuttle any proposed plan.

        Oil money also lead to Saudi-financed madrassas all over the world. That fundamentally changed trajectory of the Islamic world.

  6. James Kiser Avatar
    James Kiser

    facts don’t matter to the yahoos of the socialist set. As Stalin would say they are useful idiots.

  7. “Tens of thousands of Palestinians crossed into Israel daily before the Hamas invasion…”

    Yes, that was true, but I doubt it will be possible in the future. Among the documents captured from Hamas terrorists were extremely detailed maps of the target settlements, which could only have come from Gaza citizens who worked there. The Gaza workers were used as spies to help Hamas murder their families and children.

    The Hamas terrorists knew exactly where children would be located, how to cut power, how many seconds to get from one location to another, where to gather hostages, etc.

    Would you invite them back?

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/10/21/hamas-documents-plans-israel-attack/

    1. “Documents exclusively obtained by NBC News show that Hamas created detailed plans to target elementary schools and a youth center in the Israeli kibbutz of Kfar Sa’ad, to ‘kill as many people as possible,’ seize hostages and quickly move them into the Gaza Strip.”

      “The Israeli officials said that the wider group of documents show that Hamas had been systematically gathering intelligence on each kibbutz bordering Gaza and creating specific plans of attack for each village that included the intentional targeting of women and children.”

      “The dental office, the supermarket, the dining hall,” an Israel Defense Forces source said. “The level of specificity would cause anyone in the intelligence field’s jaw to drop.”

      “One IDF official, who declined to be named while the investigation is ongoing, said he was astounded by the degree of planning that went into ensuring maximum civilian casualties. He said, ‘I’ve never seen this kind of detailed planning’ for a mass terrorist attack.”

      https://www.nbcnews.com/news/investigations/top-secret-hamas-documents-show-terrorists-intentionally-targeted-elem-rcna120310

      1. Lefty665 Avatar

        If what you say is true it shows a Hamas intelligence failure as profound as Israel’s.That makes it unlikely.

        Before dawn on Saturday, the sabbath, is not a time when anyone would expect to find kids either at school or a youth center.

        1. If you have been following the reports, planning for the Hamas attack started over a year ago when the date and time had not yet been set. Hamas intelligence also included the occupants of individual residences which proved to be the location where most were in the early morning hours that day.

          Hamas used a similar timing as the Yom Kipper War. October 7, 2023 wasn’t just a Sabbath, it was Shmini Atzeret. Israel was caught unprepared, again.

          https://www.hebcal.com/holidays/shmini-atzeret-2023

  8. DJRippert Avatar

    Unfortunately, the miscreants in the SJP have a first amendment right to say what they are saying. If any university policy restricts that speech then the policy is unconstitutional. Those words do not constitute “material support”. They are just words.

    Should Jim Ryan or the university overall issue a statement supporting Israel? It would certainly be within their rights. However, I’d prefer to see the university stay away from political statements of any kind. The focus of the University of Virginia should be on teaching facts, describing different viewpoints without taking sides and encouraging free and open discussion and debate. In my opinion, individual employees of UVa may hold and express their political opinions but the university, as an institution, should not.

    As to the history of that part of the world, I’d like to read an unbiased book on that. Any suggestion of a good, even handed history book would be appreciated.

    1. I’ve read more books on that subject than I can count. The “unbiased” version of events has yet to be written.

      Humans are incapable of complete objectivity.
      With that said. Here’s a list. I have read some, but not all.

      10 Most Indispensable Books on the Middle East

      The Middle East has a rich and complex history.

      https://www.thoughtco.com/indispensable-books-on-the-middle-east-2353389

    2. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
      Dick Hall-Sizemore

      My best source on the Middle East is Thomas Friedman, a columnist for the New York Times. He has written several books, some on the Middle East. I have read them, but I find his commentary balanced and insightful.

      His opinion is that the Israeli response to the attack is exactly what Hamas wanted. The response will damage the international standing of Israel and make it impossible in the near future for the relations between Israel and the Arab to normalize, as it appeared was on the verge of happening immediately before the attack. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/10/opinion/israel-hamas-.html

      1. Lefty665 Avatar

        Oh Dick, I am so sorry. Please for your own mental health step away from Tom Friedman’s books, very far away and as quickly as possible.

        1. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
          Dick Hall-Sizemore

          Why?

      2. As mentioned in the review of his earlier work, From Beirut to Jerusalem (1989).

        “Friedman didn’t yet see the world through rose-colored globalist glasses …”

        Even at his best, Friedman isn’t, and will never be, a world class scholar such as Bernard Lewis.

        You may find Friedman’s current commentary to be “balanced and insightful” but in fact much of it is almost completely divorced from reality.

        Friedman now writes to please his audience, and is free to suggest strategies that if followed would be national suicide for Israel.

  9. Stephen Haner Avatar
    Stephen Haner

    https://poll.qu.edu/poll-release?releaseid=3882

    Fascinating polls results. The D’s overall are opposed to what Israel is doing and to the US backing them up. Fewer than 40% support and almost 50% oppose. Ain’t wedge issues fun? Republicans OTOH are ready by 2-1 to abandon Ukraine to Trump’s pal Putin. A double wedge issue, but right now the Israel-Hamas war is on point.

    It is still the Axis of Evil, folks. It still includes Iran, China and Russia.

    1. Matt Adams Avatar
      Matt Adams

      The problem with Ukraine, is Zelenskyy and his admin are corrupt and all they are doing is sucking money. They will not defeat Russia.

      1. Stephen Haner Avatar
        Stephen Haner

        I’ll be polite and just call that nonsense. They actually have defeated Russia in a sense, but the struggle is to get back to the previous borders now. It we send them 155 shells or other hardware, it is getting used as intended.

        1. Matt Adams Avatar
          Matt Adams

          “They actually have defeated Russia in a sense,”

          You can be “polite” all you like, but you’re wrong.

          80% of the money we’ve allocated for Ukraine hasn’t left our shores (The MIC thanks you for donation of Taxes) and what has made it, has been just lost to corruption.

          https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/graft-accusations-dog-top-zelenskiy-aides-2023-09-19/

          https://responsiblestatecraft.org/zelensky-war-time-magazine/

          Once the money train stops flowing, Ukraine will collapse to Russia.

          1. Stephen Haner Avatar
            Stephen Haner

            Well, I don’t doubt that, and had we and others not stepped up initially, it would have happened by now. But a logical inconsistency, sir, if you think the money is helping them and then argue it is not…

            Again, a decision was made to send them cash and stuff but not troops. And they are fighting, although I’m sure the strain is now huge. Once again, you’d have us talk tough and skulk away and leave them to die….

          2. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            “Well, I don’t doubt that, and had we and others not stepped up initially, it would have happened by now. But a logical inconsistency, sir, if you think the money is helping them and then argue it is not…”

            Not an illogical argument, pointing out it’s another Afghanistan boondoggle regarding funds is applicable. Also, the only place that money is helping are the MIC and the Politicians who trade their stock.

            Zelenskyy ain’t the pretty girl at the ball anymore.

            “Again, a decision was made to send them cash and stuff but not troops.”
            We have any boots on the ground in Ukraine since 2014, they SOF and GB training Ukrainians.

            ‘Once again, you’d have us talk tough and skulk away and leave them to die….”

            False, the other members of NATO can pony up the cash for once in their existence. After all, they are the ones whom are in the direct line of fire. Beyond that, how’s about we don’t poke the bear and place assets in areas where we said we wouldn’t. Well I mean that is unless you want to start another war to enrich their buddies.

        2. DJRippert Avatar

          Ukraine is endemically corrupt. If there’s a black market for 155 mm shells then some are bring sold on that black market.

          Zelensky is something of a reformer. But he will not end Ukraine’s corruption.

          1. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            Just another chink in the chain of corrupt despots the CIA has installed.

  10. Here’s part of history I doubt UVA students know. Allied troops kept Holocaust survivors in the same camps the Germans did. Not only that, the British wouldn’t allow them to migrate to their promised homeland in Palestine.

    Medical personnel were brought into the camps to care for the victims and food supplies were provided but conditions in the camps were dismal. When available, nearby SS living quarters were used as hospitals. Survivors had no method of contacting relatives as they were not allowed to send or receive mail. The survivors were forced to sleep in their bunkers, wear their camp uniforms, and were not allowed to leave the barbed-wire camps, all while the German population outside of the camps were able to try to return to normal life. The military reasoned that the Holocaust survivors (now essentially their prisoners) could not roam the countryside for fear that they would attack civilians.

    By June, word of poor treatment of Holocaust survivors reached Washington, D.C. President Harry S. Truman, anxious to appease concerns, sent Earl G. Harrison, the dean of the University of Pennsylvania Law School, to Europe to investigate the ramshackle DP camps. Harrison was shocked by the conditions he found,

    “As things stand now, we appear to be treating the Jews as the Nazis treated them, except that we do not exterminate them. They are in concentration camps, in large numbers under our military guard instead of SS troops. One is led to wonder whether the German people, seeing this, are not supposing that we are following or at least condoning Nazi policy.”
    (Proudfoot, 325)

    Read the rest here:

    https://www.thoughtco.com/displaced-jews-in-europe-1435462

    1. Randy Huffman Avatar
      Randy Huffman

      My father in law was attached to a medical unit and was involved in the liberation of a concentration camp (it was not one of the big camps, and not a death camp, the prisoners’ were in forced labor. But still horrific conditions). He stayed a fairly short period of time before being shipped out to get ready for the invasion of Japan which thankfully did not happen due to the bombs being dropped.

      I wish I could ask him what you and this article assert, but he has passed away. However, I can state with certainty that he would be insulted with an assertion US were treating them the same as the Germans.

      He did not talk about it in great detail, but I know they attended to the needs of those in the camp and tried to nurse them back to health. They also spent an enormous amount of time trying to hunt down the Germans responsible for this, they found a number hiding in civilian clothes, including SS.

      He said the US soldiers could not comprehend how people could treat other people the way the Germans treated the prisoners. They also loathed the close by townspeople who acted ignorant of what was going on inside the camp.

      Given the fact that the war was still raging, that German soldiers and SS were infiltrating civilians, and camp prisoners were in horrific conditions (he confirmed a number died soon afterwards as they were too far gone), it totally makes sense that the safest place was in the camp, for at least a period of time.

      I did read Truman was appalled at the length of time it was taking for the prisoners to be freed.

      Here is an interesting article I read about one camp. https://www.history.com/news/dachau-concentration-camp-liberation

      1. LarrytheG Avatar

        My understanding from various reading was that the folks in the camps were in poor condition and needed medical and nutritional help and that where they were from was no longer a place they could get back to quickly or easily.

        It was not at all what the proffered implication was implying.

        We ought to try to be more accurate about these like this in current discussions IMO.

        1. The article was accurate and the quote about conditions at the camps was taken from Harrison’s report to President Truman.

          Harrison’s findings were confirmed by a British committee of inquiry BTW.

          “The White House released the Harrison Report on September 29, and on November 13 also released Truman’s message to Attlee. To try to relieve tensions with the United States over the report, the British established an Anglo-American Committee of Inquiry on Palestine to investigate the report’s claims. The Committee’s April 1946 report confirmed Harrison’s findings and recommended allowing 100,000 Jews to emigrate to Palestine. The British rejected the recommendations.”

          https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/the-harrison-report

          The point of my posting it was to highlight some facts related to Jewish migration to Palestine.

        2. If you believe you have found an inaccuracy, then I suggest you submit documentation from primary sources of the time.

          1. LarrytheG Avatar

            I think it’s the general portrayal and tone associated with the “facts” that bothers me. There appeared to be few options for the care of the folks in the camps, many who were sick and malnourished, some on the verge of death. It’s not as if there were better choices for care and housing and we chose to keep them as virtual prisoners. They were sick and starving, and there was few places for them to go in the midst of the war. Time was needed to get them taken care of properly and on to their new place. The war was still ongoing in 1944 and Israel not created until 1948. Right?

          2. Look, I could write volumes about the state of Germany at the time, including the bombed out cities, etc.

            Nevertheless, there are important facts that remain. Some camps were not following Eisenhower’s orders, and conditions were not good at all. The Harrison report brought that to Eisenhower’s attention and he got it fixed, except for one thing. The Jews still had nowhere to go.

            And keep in mind, Jews were still being persecuted in Europe! Here’s an example.

            https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/the-kielce-pogrom-a-blood-libel-massacre-of-holocaust-survivors

            The fact that the Jews in camps had nowhere to go was primarily because of the British. The British Mandate to create a homeland for the Jews went back to the 1920s, but they were reluctant to move forward out of fear that they would offend the Arabs who were now in control of much of the world’s known oil reserves.

            As a result, the British would only allow a token 1,500 Jews per month permission migrate to Palestine. That’s why Jews sat in camps for years after they were well enough to travel.

            The amount of land purposed for the Jews was a tiny fraction of what had been given to Arabs for their countries. And it didn’t even have oil or other valuable resources. But the Arabs wouldn’t agree to any Jewish homeland proposals.

          3. LarrytheG Avatar

            I don’t dispute the facts at all. The military had competing priorities in that they were trying to
            finish off the Germans with the resources they had which they also had to use for the camps that they
            did not know about prior (in theory).

            It’s not like they chose to not do what needed to be done and the military had little to do with
            where the Jews would eventually leave to go off to.

            We did not systematically abuse them and treat them badly , harmed them, not at all like the Germans had done. That’s not an honest narrative IMO, no matter who wrote it. It implies that we were little
            better than the Germans which is totally not accurate.

            It was a bad situation that we ended up having to take responsibility for and try to make right as much as we good when we could.

          4. Finish off the Germans?

            Check the dates. The Germans surrendered May 7, 1945. Everything we have been discussing was after that.

          5. “We did not systematically abuse them and treat them badly , harmed them, not at all like the Germans had done. That’s not an honest narrative IMO, no matter who wrote it. It implies that we were little
            better than the Germans which is totally not accurate.”

            That’s obvious. Read Harrison’s words again carefully. In addition to the poor conditions, Harrison was concerned about how the German people might perceive things. Harrison didn’t want to give any fuel to Nazi apologists. Eisenhower understood and listened. New facilities were eventually created for the Jews.

            But you still miss my entire point. This is all a tangent. The point is the Jews needed a place to go!

          6. LarrytheG Avatar

            this is what I feel was not entirely honest:

            ” The survivors were forced to sleep in their bunkers, wear their camp uniforms, and were not allowed to leave the barbed-wire camps, all while the German population outside of the camps were able to try to return to normal life. The military reasoned that the Holocaust survivors (now essentially their prisoners) could not roam the countryside for fear that they would attack civilians.

            By June, word of poor treatment of Holocaust survivors reached Washington, D.C. President Harry S. Truman, anxious to appease concerns, sent Earl G. Harrison, the dean of the University of Pennsylvania Law School, to Europe to investigate the ramshackle DP camps. Harrison was shocked by the conditions he found,

            “As things stand now, we appear to be treating the Jews as the Nazis treated them, except that we do not exterminate them. They are in concentration camps, in large numbers under our military guard instead of SS troops. One is led to wonder whether the German people, seeing this, are not supposing that we are following or at least condoning Nazi policy.”

            did not feel like a “tangent” but rather an indictment of our treatment of the survivors.

            I just feel we actually did try but it was far from perfect but given the circumstances it was what it was.

          7. “this is what I feel…”
            “did not feel like a ,,,”
            “I just feel we…”

            Feel whatever you want.

          8. LarrytheG Avatar

            it’s what we all do when we read a 3rd person account, no?

            Any idea WHEN the decision was made to NOT send the survivors back to their homes and instead create a new homeland?

            Did they own land and buildings that they lost in doing this?

          9. Jews have been subjected to discrimination, violence, lost homes and property all over the world, including the Middle East. What happened in Germany is just the most glaring example.

          10. LarrytheG Avatar

            Any links to info about when and how the decision was made to NOT send the survivors back to their original homes? Why was it decided to not do that?

          11. Have you even read the original link I provided to the material you found so objectionable? What I posted was intended to get people to read the article.

            https://www.thoughtco.com/displaced-jews-in-europe-1435462

          12. LarrytheG Avatar

            slight clarification – I did not find the material “objectionable”, I found some of the characterizations in the article to be so, especially where comparing the US operation of the camps to the Nazi operation.

            I’ve read some of it. Went back and read it more closely and you’re right, I needed to read it closer.

            ” but many survivors did not want to return to their pre-war homes in Poland or Germany. Jews became Displaced Persons (also known as DPs) and spent time in helter-skelter camps, some of which were located at former concentration camps.”

            sounds like there might have been places other than the camps where some stayed. I can see where
            some might not want to return but others that had land, buildings, money in Swiss banks, etc..
            did they really want to leave all that behind?

            “Harrison strongly recommended to President Truman that 100,000 Jews, the approximate number of DPs in Europe at the time, be allowed to enter Palestine. As the United Kingdom controlled Palestine, Truman contacted the British Prime Minister Clement Atlee with the recommendation but Britain demurred, fearing repercussions (especially problems with oil) from Arab nations if Jews were allowed into the Middle East. Britain convened a joint United States-United Kingdom committee, the Anglo-American Committee of Inquiry, to investigate the status of DPs. Their report, issued in April 1946, concurred with the Harrison report and recommended that 100,000 Jews be allowed into Palestine. Atlee ignored the recommendation and proclaimed that 1,500 Jews would be allowed to migrate to Palestine each month. This quota of 18,000 a year continued until the British rule in Palestine ended in 1948.”

            Interesting numbers given that 6 milliion were killed… so 100K left in the camps? Seems like there were 9 millionn or more before WWII in Europe?

          13. Many more Jews than 100k left Europe, but it was only after the Jews declared their independence that restrictions into Israel ended (for Jews).

            There are now 22 Arab states with close to 500 million and one Jewish state with about 9 million total. So where is “genocide” actually possible, and why is the conversation always about why Israel doesn’t want to import more Arabs hell bent on killing them?

          14. Finish off the Germans?

            Check the dates. The Germans surrendered May 7, 1945. Everything we have been discussing was after that.

          15. LarrytheG Avatar

            THe camps were come upon before then, right? We were pursuing the retreating German army
            when we came upon these camps. Right?

            “As Allied troops moved across Europe against Nazi Germany in 1944 and 1945, they encountered concentration camps, mass graves, and other sites of Nazi crimes.”

            https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/liberation-of-nazi-camps

          16. Good grief Larry. Yes, they came upon the camps in 1944 and the first part of 1945. Then Germany surrendered on May 7, 1945 and the war was over. Everything we have been discussing came well after that. They wouldn’t have sent Harrison into the middle of an ongoing war zone for goodness sake.

          17. LarrytheG Avatar

            the point is they found the camps while the war was ongoing.

      2. Randy,

        I meant no disrespect to WWII veterans. That was not my point at all. My father and several uncles served in that war as well. They did the world a great service, to be sure.

        Thanks for the link. I’ve been to Dachau and that’s true.

        There are, however, additional events and circumstances that are also true. The article I linked to focused on issues relevant to Jewish migration and why there was a need for a Jewish homeland.

        I thought the contents of the article would help to frame the accusation that Jews were evil “colonizers.”

        If you wish to pursue the issue of conditions at the camps further, I suggest reading the following:

        1. The letter President Harry S. Truman wrote to General Eisenhower on August 31 regarding Harrison’s report.

        2. Eisenhower’s cable to President Truman on September 14

        3. Eisenhower’s follow-up report

        All are available from the national archives and may be found here.

        https://text-message.blogs.archives.gov/2015/12/15/the-harrison-report/

        1. Randy Huffman Avatar
          Randy Huffman

          Thanks for that and your clarification. It’s been a few years since I read up on the camps but did so extensively several years ago, and look forward to reading your links.

          I’ve never visited a camp but my wife did go last year to a couple.

          1. My father and most of my relatives served in the Pacific. My father wouldn’t talk about it, but he once commented that as a result of his experiences in the war he could no longer be a hunter. He had no issues with others hunting, but for him it brought back memories that made him sick.

            I too wish he were still around to talk to. I miss him more than I have words to express.

  11. f/k/a_tmtfairfax Avatar
    f/k/a_tmtfairfax

    We’d all be better off were businesses and institutions to stay out of politics. It really isn’t the mission of a university to comment on international affairs. And do we really need to know a professor’s views either?

    The remedy for free speech is more free speech. When a group or individual comes out in favor of terrorism, it seems reasonable for others to point that out.

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