Bacon's Rebellion

Democracy Thrives in Sunlight

The Californication of Virginia

—

by

Bob Rayner
in , , , , ,

by Kerry Dougherty

Does anyone really think fewer gas mowers will make a difference?

More importantly, is it the role of government to tell citizens what they must use to trim their fescue?

Of course it isn’t.

Why should we in Virginia care? Because we’re just one car back on California’s crazy train.

During the disastrous Ralph Northam era, when both chambers of the General Assembly were controlled by Virginia’s far-left Democrats, the Old Dominion linked its automotive climate policies to California’s.

Unless sanity is restored in the November elections and the Senate flips to the GOP, gas-powered cars will no longer be sold in Virginia after 2035.

Here’s an explanation from the Virginia Mercury:

In 2021, Virginia Democrats pushed through legislation to adopt vehicle emissions standards and electric car sales targets set by the California Air Resources Board (CARB) as part of the party’s broad climate change agenda. The law, which has been hotly opposed by state Republicans who tried but failed to repeal it in 2022, was supported by the influential Virginia Automobile Dealers Association.

Because of federal law establishing a two-year transition period, the California standards won’t be effective in Virginia until early 2024, but once in force will bring Virginia in line with 14 other states and Washington, D.C. that have decided to follow the Golden State’s path.

“The General Assembly did decide for Virginia to become a clean cars state and take advantage of the authority under the Clean Air Act to adopt more stringent tailpipe pollution regulations. And those measures do change over time,” said Trip Pollard, an attorney with the Southern Environmental Law Center who lobbied for Virginia to join with California.

Lucky us.

It’s unlikely the Old Dominion will also ban gas-powered lawn tools next year. But it’s coming. Eventually.

Unless we decouple from the crazy train, that is. There’s only one way to do that: vote against the Dems in November and repeal the Northam-era insanity.

Keep the government off our grass.

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Comments

143 responses to “The Californication of Virginia”

  1. how_it_works Avatar
    how_it_works

    Nobody ever moved to California for the regulations and taxes.

  2. James A. Bacon Avatar
    James A. Bacon

    Next time you’re feeling morally superior for supporting electric vehicles, read this book:

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/656b591b28685adac2fa68c223318b6e60316d89088b7b6064b0250fd4a5ed2d.png

  3. VaPragamtist Avatar
    VaPragamtist

    I have no opinion on the policy issue, just the author’s logic:

    “Does anyone really think fewer gas mowers will make a difference?”

    “Does anyone really think cutting X program from the federal budget will make a difference in the national debt?”

    “Small, incremental changes to behavior don’t make a difference; only big changes should be tried” is not only a terrible way of thinking, but less likely to result in sustainable changes.

    1. LarrytheG Avatar
      LarrytheG

      Does Kerry pay any attention to issues like storm-water runoff and the govt role as well as citizens role?

      Should we, as “free” citizens be able to dump motor oil down a storm drain?

      How about throwing bald ties on a vacant lot?

      how about burning one’s trash in a barrel in the back yard?

      How about having a coal-powered furnace?

      How about it Kerry, where do you sit on these issues? Same as the law mowers?

      1. James Wyatt Whitehead Avatar
        James Wyatt Whitehead

        Does Mr. Larry pay attention to the fact that Fredericksburg grinds to a halt without the all mighty internal combustion engine?

        1. LarrytheG Avatar
          LarrytheG

          it’s the other way around Mr. James… it’s BECAUSE of the ICE! We’ve been FAIRFAXED, no question
          about it! If we banned all the come-here’s we’d be perfect!

          1. James Wyatt Whitehead Avatar
            James Wyatt Whitehead

            No need to ban them. They will die off soon enough. It will be interesting to see what Fredericksburg looks like in another 100 years. A town that has gone through many metamorphosis.

          2. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            We’re not unlike much of NoVa these days because that’s where most of our new folks come from!

            It don’t do any good to widen or build new roads.. all that does is encourage even more driving!

          3. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            You gotta stop building houses. Then they won’t come.

          4. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            got this pesky law about property owners rights to sell and new property owners rights to build…

            NoVa folks are very auto-centric.. EVERYTHING is an auto-trip and it don’t matter if it’s during maximum congestion or not… they just dive in!

          5. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            There are zoning laws.

          6. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            there are and they do restrict to “by right” in rural but further in where there is water/sewer, they’ll extract proffers for road-improvements , fire&rescue, libraries, etc…

            I love the folks who “came here” 10-20 years ago talking about how wonderfully “rural
            it was when they came and now it’s “ruined”.

            People gotta have a place to live… I don’t begrudge them that but driving everywhere anytime
            is a really bad habit that most of them have… I try to “stack” my errands… I even try to do them
            in order of right-turns so I don’t have to make a left… but these folks drive like bats outta hell.
            They’ll tailgate, then pass on the right , then cut back in front to make a left… all kinds of stupid
            stuff!

          7. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            Do they remain safely behind the stop line while waiting for a gap in oncoming traffic to make their left turn?

            That’s a typical Virginia driver thing. I pull out into the intersection, like most people with a clue about how to drive.

          8. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            We’ve had issues. VDOT is closing many of the median cross-overs because people DON’T wait and
            do really stupid things. So now, we have longer and longer left turn lanes that stack the cars and
            those who want the other way do a U-be… but they’ll run slap over the right-turn folks.

            They just drive a lot, are in a hurry, get frustrated with the traffic and do rude and stupid things.

            And we see it in accident stats as well as insurance premiums as well as pedestrian and bike deaths.

          9. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            I wonder why VDOT doesn’t build positive offset left turn lanes. They provide much better visibility of oncoming traffic and have been documented (per a study in Wisconsin) to reduce accidents.

          10. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            The do where they have the right-of-way…. but when the traffic is bumper-to-bumper there is
            no way. They have the yellow-blink and they are building round-abouts and RCUTs , etc.. the
            630 Stafford I-95 interchange is a diverging diamond… but like I said, we have a bunch of
            folks who just see these things as obstacles to overcome! 😉 I support cameras .. red light and speed, there are just too many yahoos… and they just run over others… bully them and in general are
            a menace to others.

          11. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            I have NEVER seen a positive offset left turn lane anywhere in Virginia. Where is one?

          12. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            is this one?

            https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/8af3a1fb655fe87e26ea3cc8fedc9e24e161b81ad891ead649b13492dc832bc5.png

          13. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/31c82d7218f86a2462b91864d082108ee24b9638b648254d63c90c6f93373b9a.png

          14. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            It is. There are places where they could do that in NoVA.

  4. Stephen Haner Avatar
    Stephen Haner

    https://www.virginiamercury.com/2023/10/27/dominions-electric-vehicle-charging-infrastructure-program-has-zero-sign-ups/

    Another sign above that the public is not rushing to do what Our Betters insist we do. Dominion has these fancy subsides for EV charges but has installed zero. Zero! ….But a week from Tuesday it is still quite possible the voters will ignore all this and embrace the madness, as long as they can keep terminating pregnancies at will. There is a reason Democrats really have only one issue.

    In the last week or so more and more GOP candidates are talking about this, but IMHO they are late and the Republicans missed a real opportunity. Even most Democrats deeply hate the idea of this mandate, which most Republicans also fail to understand and report accurately. The real pain is just a year or so away, not 2035. Dealers will be prevented from selling as many gas cars as they could by 2025.

    1. James Kiser Avatar
      James Kiser

      The true goal of the socialist democrats is total control of your life with no cars at all except for the elites. The rest of us walk.

  5. Eric the half a troll Avatar
    Eric the half a troll

    “The law, which has been hotly opposed by state Republicans who tried but failed to repeal it in 2022…”

    Ummm… the House passed legislation reversing the VCEA requirements in 2022… the Senate Energy Subcommittee killed the legislation and Minority Leader Tommy Norment, R-James City, voted against it….

    1. Stephen Haner Avatar
      Stephen Haner

      Nope, looked it up. The three Rs on committee opposed the motion to PBI.
      https://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?221+vot+S02V0163+HB0118

      Yes, there were other disappointing votes.

      1. Eric the half a troll Avatar
        Eric the half a troll

        Actually you are correct but I also cited the wrong legislation (and it wasn’t even Norment’s committee that killed it). This is the legislation referenced in this piece:

        https://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp604.exe?221+sum+HB1267

  6. LarrytheG Avatar
    LarrytheG

    The irony is that in Virginia, we have much cleaner air and much less polluting vehicles BECAUSE of California regulations!

    Not only those nasty govt regs, but even worse California regulations!

    I think Virginia has actually done quite well with California regulations. The air quality in places like NoVa despite the hellish traffic is way better than it used to be, and especially on hot summer days!

    Conservatives ought to admit the truth of this!

    1. James Wyatt Whitehead Avatar
      James Wyatt Whitehead

      Horse hockey Mr. Larry. Population of California is 39 million. Dear ole Virginny is 8.6 million. We have 30 million less people that is why our air is cleaner.

      1. Eric the half a troll Avatar
        Eric the half a troll

        Ummm… California is ranked 17th in population density (254 per square mile), Virginia is 20th (217 per square mile). Pretty comparable…

      2. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        Our air is MUCH CLEANER than it was before we set the emission standards especially in cities and urban areas where there are a LOT of people.

        you guys.. you conservatives…. reality is tough for you sometimes:

        https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/4b9ea8eed957cce777d9e9f25a8fbb37124cba79cce8b6e44d026464edcca76e.png

        http://www.virginiaplaces.org/waste/airwaste.html

        1. James Wyatt Whitehead Avatar
          James Wyatt Whitehead

          Yes, much cleaner 1990 to present. Happens to correlate with most of Virginia’s industrial capacity leaving the state and heading overseas.
          https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/440968815b17c964a6667aaac89dfd15ca3e7735d763482a7161e9b1f173ddcd.jpg

          1. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/437d8af822511662e1615ced1d11e5fae7e82552461fb241088b2f1ee693d832.png

            https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/e351e9dd569e0edd8c96c2453d677ed596a4cfed144be5642cca0d3aca86d00f.png

            https://filterbuy.com/resources/across-the-nation/cities-with-biggest-air-pollution-declines/

          2. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            GE once made television sets in Portsmouth, VA. I saw a Youtube video where someone was restoring one and had to pause the video where they showed the label on the back saying where it was made.

        2. how_it_works Avatar
          how_it_works

          Hey Larry I am curious, when is the last time you had to get your vehicle emissions tested?

          1. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            Don’t do it down Fredericksburg way…. yet…

            It’s determined by the boundaries of the non-attainment region, right?

          2. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            That’s what I read, but if you dig back in to the history they were at one time going to have emissions testing in Richmond, but decided not to.

          3. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            I don’t know the ins and outs but the discussion was about what the limits would be for a given non-attainment region, I believe.

          4. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            I know that there’s a problem with people registering their vehicles outside of Northern Virginia because they know it won’t pass.

            The roadside emissions testing catches these folks.

          5. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            So if I live in NoVa and buy a car from Carmax from RIchmond, it won’t pass?

          6. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            There’s a possibility that it won’t. If Carmax wanted to do you dirty with a vehicle they know has problems, they could just clear the codes before the test drive. That’ll turn off the check engine light. But it WON’T pass an emissions test, because clearing the codes also clears the status showing that all applicable emissions self tests have passed without error.

          7. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            If I was going to buy a car from outside NoVA, I’d bring a code reader with me to make sure that the codes weren’t just reset.

      3. Eric the half a troll Avatar
        Eric the half a troll

        Ummm… California is ranked 17th in population density (254 per square mile), Virginia is 20th (217 per square mile). Pretty comparable…

        1. James Wyatt Whitehead Avatar
          James Wyatt Whitehead

          Ummm….Virginia 30 million less people. Fewer factories, industries, shipping, trains, cars, buses, planes, etc. etc.

          1. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            And a lot less area… total population is not relevant…

          2. James Wyatt Whitehead Avatar
            James Wyatt Whitehead

            Ball four.
            https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/37efc270b7f9b16b911c429058dcda41dc6eba4929609eadf7224189c3e8ed00.jpg

          3. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            Look! A California Mini-Me! https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/a67a893db33c3465170c298336facddaf841b398d411a70561b50b58442488ae.jpg

          4. James Wyatt Whitehead Avatar
            James Wyatt Whitehead

            You have failed the Geography SOL. This is nearly impossible given the ridiculous low cut score. About 3 million live in NOVA. About 13 million live in LA/Long Beach, the NOVA for Southern Cali.

          5. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            The greater LA area is some 34,000 square miles. NOVA 1300… 🤷‍♂️. Arlington County, VA population density ~9000/sq mi… LA County ~2400… 🤷‍♂️

          6. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            The greater LA area is some 34,000 square miles. NOVA 1300… 🤷‍♂️. Arlington County, VA population density ~9000/sq mi… LA County ~2400… 🤷‍♂️

          7. James Wyatt Whitehead Avatar
            James Wyatt Whitehead

            You have to count Loudoun, Prince William and Stafford. That is NOVA in 2023.

          8. James Wyatt Whitehead Avatar
            James Wyatt Whitehead

            Most of LA County is mountains, desert, or a national park.
            https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/57a4025dc640237fe5e3ceda5bd4a3181db4944db1446c34c2354aeada60e457.jpg

          9. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            Wow, James you are really married to this but look, Arlington County at 9000 has a higher population density than does the city of Los Angeles (~8300). DC is even higher at 11,000. The population of NOVA is comparably at a slightly higher density than the LA area. VA is actually very similar to CA in population density and distribution – it is just a smaller state in terms of overall size. As I said CA Mini-Me.

          10. James Wyatt Whitehead Avatar
            James Wyatt Whitehead

            When this happens I’ll believe you.
            https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/045fa3ff8bdbfc7238039015efd30994bd43d1505cc2766f2f3ab389d0c1c543.jpg

      4. how_it_works Avatar
        how_it_works

        On top of that:

        California has emissions testing requirements STATEWIDE.

        Virginia only has emissions testing requirements in Northern Virginia.

        California requires ALL vehicles no matter how old they are to pass an emissions test. All emissions equipment present on the vehicle when it was new must still be present AND working.

        Virginia exempts vehicles older than 25 years from emissions testing.

        1. James Wyatt Whitehead Avatar
          James Wyatt Whitehead

          I have a VW Bug and Bus from 1970. They came with a useless California mandated charcoal canister filter to capture gas fumes evaporating from the tank. Completely useless now. I drive the heck out of those two cars. Cheap and easy to maintain. Way cheaper than my 2018 Jeep. The bug gets 28 mpg and bus 25 mpg. Not bad for 1936 technology.

          1. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            I don’t think Jeep is known for having any vehicles with a low total cost of ownership.

            I get around 26MPG out of that 1998 Nissan Frontier. 40MPG out of that 2013 Chevy Volt, when it’s running on gas. Will be interesting to see what the 1984 Chevrolet Cavalier (4 speed MT) gives for fuel economy. I haven’t driven it much since it has a heater core leak which I was able to stop with GM seal tabs. Need to replace the heater core and the water pump, it looks like the bearings are starting to go on the water pump based on the pulley wobble. Got both the heater core and the water pump on Ebay. Both are new old stock made in USA parts.

          2. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            I don’t think Jeep is known for having any vehicles with a low total cost of ownership.

            I get around 26MPG out of that 1998 Nissan Frontier. 40MPG out of that 2013 Chevy Volt, when it’s running on gas. Will be interesting to see what the 1984 Chevrolet Cavalier (4 speed MT) gives for fuel economy. I haven’t driven it much since it has a heater core leak which I was able to stop with GM seal tabs. Need to replace the heater core and the water pump, it looks like the bearings are starting to go on the water pump based on the pulley wobble. Got both the heater core and the water pump on Ebay. Both are new old stock made in USA parts.

          3. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            Tacoma with six gets about 20… not trouble-free. Wifes CRV gets 34 mpg.

          4. James Wyatt Whitehead Avatar
            James Wyatt Whitehead

            Chevy Cavalier. Nice! That was one you saw often on the Friday night Mathis Avenue cruise around the block. Way cooler than the 1984 faux Ford Mustang.

          5. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            It’s a Chevy Cavalier station wagon, no less!

          6. James Wyatt Whitehead Avatar
            James Wyatt Whitehead

            Even more useful for a Mathis Ave cruise. I have not seen one on the road in such a long time.

          7. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            the secret to your VWs is weight. they’re very light compared to modern vehicles and the ones I have been familiar with- the engines are not particularly long-lived.

            Jeeps for the most part have poor reliability records according to Consumers. Popular brand, not Toyotas.

            Yes, I use seafoam but still problems when those machines get 20+ years old, they just get harder and harder to start.

          8. James Wyatt Whitehead Avatar
            James Wyatt Whitehead

            You can rebuild a VW engine for $1,800 bucks if you are resourceful. Did you change the spark plug on the small engine? Did you gap it right? That is the second problem with most small engines.

          9. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            I think the first problem with small engines is that people think they are waterproof and store them outdoors where they get rained on and water gets in the fuel system.

          10. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            all indoors… never out… but as they get older, they get harder to start…. I watch the guy in the shop pulling on the rope – hard… many times in a row and he says “see it works fine”! I cannot do what he does…

          11. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            Sometimes the valve clearances need to be adjusted as the engine ages. That could be the problem.

          12. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            Did the guy in the shop do ANY diagnostic tests at all like checking compression and valve clearance? Or is he operating under the theory that if you can get it to start by yanking on the rope like a madman it must be fine?

          13. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            No, they claimed they did all the proper diagnostic work…he just said they do get harder to start
            when they get older… did not have any other suggestion other than to pay the bill… This is a Stihl
            shop… all of mine were Stihl and for many years they were bullet-proof but once they got old, they
            got cantankerous.

          14. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            Nobody wants to take the time to do a good job.

          15. James Wyatt Whitehead Avatar
            James Wyatt Whitehead

            For sure. Taking anything to a shop is a last resort for me. Although, here and there you can still find a few old school wrench turners.

          16. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            they’ve been good for years prior… but totally not responsive on the hard start issue.. that’s when I decided to go electric!

          17. James Wyatt Whitehead Avatar
            James Wyatt Whitehead

            Might be time for a lawn service. Although my neighbor Mr. B. The man push mowed his yard until he was 90. He would not let me cut his grass for free. Had a Montgomery Ward mower from the 70s. He always said that the day he could not pull start the mower would mark his end. When that day came, he was dead less than two weeks later.

          18. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            The toro would always start -easy. But blower, chainsaw and whacker got harder and harder as
            they got older and the repair folks confirmed that to be true and then proceeded to show how to
            start them… with hard vigorous, quick pulls that ordinary folks would find not so easy. I would have
            bought new replacements but then the battery ones came out and if you have extra batteries , it’s
            not a problem. Even Stihl sees the handwriting on the wall…

          19. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            James is a hippie…?! Just kidding, James…

          20. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            no… I think you may be on to something….. 😉

          21. James Wyatt Whitehead Avatar
            James Wyatt Whitehead

            I used to think the hippies were cool. Then I realized they were all fools.

          22. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            The biggest issue with hippies is the smell. Visualize taking a shower.

          23. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            Maybe not about VWs though…?

          24. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            So you WERE one? 😉

          25. James Wyatt Whitehead Avatar
            James Wyatt Whitehead

            My grandmother Whithead had me swear on the family bible that I would never long hair and never get a tatoo. I have kept the oath. Now I have no hair. No worries!

          26. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            good instincts on the tatoos for sure… I don’t know what’s wrong with folks these days on the tatoos…especially the ones all over their arms and necks..

        2. LarrytheG Avatar
          LarrytheG

          so not following California regs?

          1. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            I suppose not?

            Richmond would be up in arms if they had emissions testing down there, I suspect!

          2. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            Might depend on how many would fail… If modern cars don’t have a problem.. I suspect
            people would be not concerned.

          3. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            Many failures are due to tampering.

            Engine “tuning”, “straight pipe cat deletes”.

            Other failures are simply due to age and wear and tear.

          4. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            I know those that mess with the engines have issues. How about older cars? Really old? like
            before the California type emissions? I thought they might be grandfathered.

          5. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            I’d have to look into it, but I think anything new enough to have a catalytic converter is required to pass an emissions test in California.

            Vehicles older than that are either not tested at all or just pass a visual inspection to ensure that what emissions equipment they left the factory with is still there (eg, PCV valve, smog pump, egr valve).

          6. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            the catalytic converter seems to be a primary aspect.. but , not sure I’ve seen any new cars being sold in Va that don’t have them… and when I look at Carvana , Carmax, etc…there is no mention of what
            kind of emissions they have… and they move cars between states all the time.

            It would be chaos even in a region like DC/MD/Va/WVA/NC… no?

          7. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            As noted in another post, used vehicles (more than 7,500 miles or 2 years old) can be registered in California even if they are Federal emissions. Presumably, this also applies in states which follow California’s regulations.

          8. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            doesn’t sound at all like the boogeyman some are promoting here about California standards…sheesh

          9. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            I just don’t want to pay California taxes (and cost of living, for that matter) for Virginia standards.

    2. energyNOW_Fan Avatar
      energyNOW_Fan

      The US EPA pulled remaining Sulfur out of gasoline (10 ppm max) in 2017. I assume that took a few years to phase in, so now we all have this ultra low sulfur. The sulfur was lowered, not because trace sulfur is a serious pollutant, but it is a moderate poison for the catalytic converters. Now the auto exhaust 3-way catalysts are really kicking butt, knocking down CO, NOX, and HC (smog) to minimum levels. Having achieved this tremendous near-zero pollution accomplishment, liberals are more outraged than ever, due to perceived traces. Recently heard Howie Mandel talking about his OCD complex (fear of germs) and it struck me this is like liberal feelings about trace pollution. But not sure America can survive liberal OCD. Somebody has to make something we use.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        what? I think most liberals are proud of the fact that the govt set standards that have been exceptionally effective and the California standards led the way. I heard that conservative type folks also have
        OCD issues, no? 😉

  7. energyNOW_Fan Avatar
    energyNOW_Fan

    Well first of all, I like my EGO EV mower, although it may cost me a ton more money at battery death.

    The intellectual/legislative rationale for EV mandate is strictly liberal in-our-faces’ism. But as long as Dems are in charge here, they can do this to us, because that is what Dems like to do. Repubs have they own, different in-our-faces’isms to mandate.

    California was given autonomy on auto emissions years ago to help solve a terrible local smog issue, related to the background Mountains holding in emissions in the cities. Northeast also had smog issues. But smog from cars has lessened greatly due to cleaner cars, so the California Dems changed the end goal to fossil fuel/CO2 elimination because they hate that industry. Gone is the valid smog rationale.

    Liberals feel no need for data, we should use the Precautionary Principle to advise the public of the deadly poisonous nature of cars. But what is the pollution? Imaginary, mostly and tire particulates and diesels.

    1. LarrytheG Avatar
      LarrytheG

      Before the US adopted the California Emissions standard, virtually every urbanized city in the US had days of bad air quality. Since that time, most folks have forgotten it and now think that only California had the problem.

      https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/a87a3c91a5c7cff2ee5f4a88f48af7c1d3578f79ba3a10da4c95406c39a74eb5.png

      1. James Wyatt Whitehead Avatar
        James Wyatt Whitehead

        Don’t forget to thank NAFTA. My bet is that did far more than California Emissions to clean up the air and drain the wealth of blue-collar workers.

        1. LarrytheG Avatar
          LarrytheG

          The cars, James.. lots and lots and lots of cars … in the cities.. and now cleaner air and far less
          non-attainment days… no matter where the cars were/are manufactured, they have the mandated
          emissions that have resulted in far less pollution and much cleaner air. Nasty govt mandates did it!

      2. William O'Keefe Avatar
        William O’Keefe

        Larry, as usual you have your facts jumbled. The Clean Air Act set standards for air quality and tailpipe emissions. California was given the right to set more stringent emission standards because of its unique topography–the LA basin.
        Because its standards have become so stringent, it has to use a unique gasoline which is why it is the most expensive in the nation.
        Most cities have come into or close to being in compliance with the current ozone standard.

        1. LarrytheG Avatar
          LarrytheG

          Bill, as usual, you are guilty of promoting alternative facts:

          ” Is Your Car Built to Federal or California Emissions Standards?

          A car can come from the factory with either a federal or California emissions package. The primary difference between the two configurations is the catalytic converter. Generally, a converter designed to meet California’s requirements contains more of the precious metals needed to reduce tailpipe emissions.

          And guess what? Your car doesn’t need to have been originally sold in the Golden State to have California emissions equipment. Because California is such a huge market, many automakers choose to make just one version (the California emissions version) of a particular model and sell it nationwide. Even if you buy a brand-new vehicle in Ohio, there’s a good chance it will come with California emissions equipment.”

          https://www.carparts.com/blog/federal-vs-california-emissions-what-you-need-to-know/#:~:text=Because%20California%20is%20such%20a,come%20with%20California%20emissions%20equipment.

          California, in effect, has set national standards.

          And guess who tried to undo it?

          Yep… Mr. Trump…

          https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/092fa92ee755fe088c1eb83a9c51bc4d9f532e11e2f87e1ae93a28dd7a8b56f0.png

          https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/us-reverses-trump-effort-quash-california-vehicle-emissions-rules-2021-12-22/#:~:text=The%20U.S.%20Environmental%20Protection%20Agency,set%20zero%2Demission%20vehicle%20mandates.

          I know you are a fossil fuel guy Bill.. but gaslighting is not a good look.

        2. LarrytheG Avatar
          LarrytheG

          Bill, as usual, you are guilty of promoting alternative facts:

          ” Is Your Car Built to Federal or California Emissions Standards?

          A car can come from the factory with either a federal or California emissions package. The primary difference between the two configurations is the catalytic converter. Generally, a converter designed to meet California’s requirements contains more of the precious metals needed to reduce tailpipe emissions.

          And guess what? Your car doesn’t need to have been originally sold in the Golden State to have California emissions equipment. Because California is such a huge market, many automakers choose to make just one version (the California emissions version) of a particular model and sell it nationwide. Even if you buy a brand-new vehicle in Ohio, there’s a good chance it will come with California emissions equipment.”

          https://www.carparts.com/blog/federal-vs-california-emissions-what-you-need-to-know/#:~:text=Because%20California%20is%20such%20a,come%20with%20California%20emissions%20equipment.

          California, in effect, has set national standards.

          And guess who tried to undo it?

          Yep… Mr. Trump…

          https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/092fa92ee755fe088c1eb83a9c51bc4d9f532e11e2f87e1ae93a28dd7a8b56f0.png

          https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/us-reverses-trump-effort-quash-california-vehicle-emissions-rules-2021-12-22/#:~:text=The%20U.S.%20Environmental%20Protection%20Agency,set%20zero%2Demission%20vehicle%20mandates.

          I know you are a fossil fuel guy Bill.. but gaslighting is not a good look.

          1. William O'Keefe Avatar
            William O’Keefe

            Once again your leftist bias has gotten a head of your brain.
            I never said that cars had to be bought in California to meet its emissions standard.
            States can opt-into the California program.
            Standards are mandated by EPA under its CAA authority; not California.
            What you don’t address is air quality outside of California.

          2. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            no leftist bias, pure facts (that seems to be the problem with the righties). I never claimed you said that. I was correcting you on how the standards got set. States, don’t “opt-in”, the manufacturers do it … you can’t buy a “non-california emissions” car as far as I know. And I HAVE addressed the air quality outside of California. I say that it is vastly improved in most places now BECAUSE of the increased emissions standards that ARE based on California standards.

            The simple reality is that across the country, we DO have cleaner air even in the cities and it’s due
            primarily to Govt-established emission standards AND the fact that most manufacturers have chosen
            to build cars that meet the California standards.

          3. William O'Keefe Avatar
            William O’Keefe

            You need to read and become familiar with the Clean Air Act. Congress passes a law and EPA sets the regulatory standards to implement it. In case of air quality it is the ozone standard and CAFE enhancement which gets translated into tailpipe emissions.
            You are ABSOLUTELY wrong on opt-in which is why the Virginia General Assembly passed the VCEA. You are also wrong about buying a non California car. They are available in all states that have not chosen the California standards.

          4. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            What I claimed (apart from VCEA), is that VIrginia has benefited from California Emission standards because the manufacturers chose to meet one standard, the California standard for all cars. Can you show me where other states have lower standards and the manufacturers produce cars only for that state and not the other states with tougher standards?

            The manufacturers, as far as I know, do NOT produce different emission standard vehicles for different states.

            And one way we know this is that we can buy and sell across the states without having to determine if they meet that states standards

            Used to be initially that some vehicles had “California emissions” on them and you could not sell a car from Va to someone in California because it did not meet their standards

            That’s does not seem to be a problem now.

            You can go to Carmax or any of the other car retailing sites and there is no state-specific standards that would prevent you from buying from another state.

          5. William O'Keefe Avatar
            William O’Keefe

            Wrong again! Cars are made to be California compliant and Federal standard compliant.
            California has a rule, several years old, that states that a car compliant with Federal standards will be deemed to be compliant with California standards. Hence there is a 49 state car and a California car.
            Please do your homework before babbling ignorance.

          6. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            they are one and the same. There are no states where you cannot bye or sell from other states because of differing emission standards. Babble that!

          7. William O'Keefe Avatar
            William O’Keefe

            Wrong, Wrong, Wrong!
            Check these out–https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/uploads/2020/03/ffvr29-and 1.pdf and https://www.carparts.com/blog/federal-vs-california-emissions-what-you-need-to-know/

          8. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            You provided a link I had already provided to you. Do you not read?

            ” If you don’t live in California, you might think that the state’s emissions regulations have nothing to do with you and your car. But in reality, many vehicles sold throughout the country come with emissions systems designed to meet California’s standards. Furthermore, many states outside of California now adhere to the emissions requirements established by the California Air Resources Board (CARB).”

            isn’t this what I’ve been saying all along?

          9. William O'Keefe Avatar
            William O’Keefe

            What you said was “The manufacturers, as far as I know, do NOT produce different emission standard vehicles for different states.”
            That is different from “many vehicles.”
            I am not interested in consuming this back and forth, so goodbye.

          10. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            the basic thing I put forward originally and stand by is that California standards are pretty much the baseline for the Federal and states… that manufacturers did not want to produce a different car
            for each state, so they adopted the California and that became the baseline.

            And even if you didn’t know this, from a practical perspective when you buy a car from Carmax or Carvana or others… they can and do come from other states and I can find no verbiage at all that
            speaks to differing emission standards that may not meet some state standards.

            And my point that you guys never met a reg you’d support, show me some you have…

          11. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_vehicle_emission_standards

          12. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            Larry, to the best of my knowledge, there are still “Federal Emissions” and “California Emissions” vehicles.

            That some manufacturers may have decided to only manufacture vehicles with “California Emissions” does NOT mean that they are required to do that.

          13. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            It’s true but from a practical perspective, I don’t know of any manufacturers that do that and if
            that was true , wouldn’t online car retailing companies like Carmax and others have problems?

            I’ve just never hear of it these days. It would be chaos.. in the market… no?

          14. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            Used vehicles are exempt from the requirement to be California emissions, quoting from a website below:

            California Health and Safety Code §§43150-43156 states that no new vehicle shall be registered in California unless it is certified pursuant to this (California emissions) chapter. A new vehicle is a vehicle with 7,500 miles or less and less than two years of age. Cal. Health & Safety Code §43156(a).

            The code is silent on vehicles with more than 7,500 miles. Per the California Air Resource Board’s website, “‘Used’ vehicles . . . can generally be registered in California as long as they are in compliance with US EPA (Federal) emissions standards.”

            A FEDERAL EMISSIONS CAR CAN PASS CALIFORNIA EMISSIONS
            As shown above, the lack of California emissions certification will not prevent a used federally certified vehicle from passing California emissions. In our experience, federal emissions vehicles are just as likely to pass the used California vehicle smog test as California certified cars. However, unless you buy a vehicle from a California resident (where smog compliance is the seller’s burden), there are no guarantees

            We detail any potential emissions problems in our ads, like when we buy a vehicle with a missing catalytic converter or EGR system. So unless mentioned, we have no reason to think it will fail.

          15. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            When you title a car where you live, is there paperwork associated with emissions?

          16. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            No, I can title a piece of junk that won’t even run.

            Registering it is where the emissions test is required. Cannot register it without a valid emissions test. If it has none you get a 1-month registration so you can get it tested and then renew it for a full term.

          17. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            so I misspoke, I probably meant, register, get tags.

          18. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            As mentioned, though, anything 25 model years old or older is exempt from emissions testing.

            Therefore I can straight pipe my 1998 Nissan Frontier. Yee-hah, that ought to make the 150HP 4-banger run like a V8! It’ll sure be as loud as one, anyway!

            (I am not serious….)

    2. James Wyatt Whitehead Avatar
      James Wyatt Whitehead

      EV mower is fine for a postage stamp lot. I laugh at my neighbor. Uses the same mower for an acre lot. Takes him 3 days. Always waits to cut the grass when it is too high. Sucks the life right out of the batteries. When it broke down, the small engine shop down the street would not touch it. Me and John Deere have often come to his EV mortal rescue.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        I’m betting many if not most folks have the battery drills and such…. and they bought them without that nasty govt mandate!

        1. how_it_works Avatar
          how_it_works

          I like my corded drills (and corded weedwacker), than you very much.

          1. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            not for me… no longer… I just grab the tool and a couple of batteries and forget about the cords …

          2. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            I got these neat cord reels that make putting down 100 feet of extension cord a 2 minute job.

          3. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            Yeah, I got a couple also… and I use things like battery tenders… and motion lights, etc.

      2. how_it_works Avatar
        how_it_works

        I used an electric (plug in) mower when I lived in a townhouse. I still occasionally use it to mow in places where the riding mower cannot fit.

        1. LarrytheG Avatar
          LarrytheG

          I use one and I have extra batteries.. just swap them out
          when needed… no problem.

          And I can and do use the same batteries for blowing, hedge trimming, weed-whack, even chain saw….

          I got rid of most of my gas-powered stuff – a Stihl chainsaw and weedwacker, a blower and a Toro mower that I just paid $200 to fix then gave to Habitat.

          I got tired of them not starting and having to screw around with them , then take them in and get the same lecture… bad gas or ethanol, etc… even though I used fresh gas with no ethanol.

          I still have a gas-powered lawn tractor.. I notice the Ryobi zero-turn thingy was 7K at HD.

          1. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            I have a corded electric chainsaw.

            The numbers are simple. A 15-amp 120V circuit can deliver 1800 watts indefinitely (or at least till the power goes out…I have NOVEC, so that’s a rare occurrence).

            Any battery small enough to be used with a power tool is lucky to deliver that kind of power for more than a few minutes.

          2. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            These are 40v, 6amp batteries.
            We have trees and every now and then across the drive… got tired of the chainsaw not starting when I needed it … take it in… and some 20-30 yro pulls frantically 5-10 times to get it started and says “no problem” AND they charge big bucks to fix it like that and show you how to properly start it.

            I predict I’m not the only one who feels this way about small engine equipment and the availability of battery equipment.

          3. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            I have an electric chainsaw with a 16″ bar. It pulls 9 amps @ 120V. It was cheaper to buy that electric chainsaw and 100 feet of 12 gauge cord than it was to get a cordless one. Which do you think will handle cutting a 30 foot tree that’s a foot in diameter into easily moved logs?

          4. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            how about 200-300 feet? 😉

          5. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            I have something like 500 feet worth of extension cords. I am unlikely to need to cut a tree more than 150 feet from my nearest exterior outlet, though.

          6. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            to go that far, you need a really thick cord, no?

          7. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            According to the voltage drop calculator, 200 feet of 14AWG extension cord with a 9 amp load has:

            Voltage drop: 9.62
            Voltage drop percentage: 8.02%
            Voltage at the end: 110.38

            Plenty sufficient. Assuming the voltage at the outlet is 120V.

            I bought 12AWG extension cords because they weren’t much more expensive than 14AWG ones.

          8. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            that’s the right size cord… you are more studious than I… I still have the option of a corded saw and
            I do have the right extension cords for it but the last two trees that came down, were fairly easily
            taken care of by the battery saw… I have several batteries.. and just take a few and swap them
            out if need be. There is even an inverter if you want to use a corded!

          9. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            I have considered the use of an inverter if needed.

          10. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            I have one for the vehicle, a propane generator and an inverter that is powered by the 40v battery.

          11. James Wyatt Whitehead Avatar
            James Wyatt Whitehead

            Put Seafoam in your gas can. You will never have a problem again. It’s like Viagra for small engines. Put in your car gas tank. Put in the oil too. Hell brush your teeth with it. Miracle in a bottle.
            https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/3d336368e431e6e0ed8ff859f20b8ade0270888a958b5e4b0efe30a7480fa719.jpg

  8. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
    Dick Hall-Sizemore

    Kerry is becoming an even sloppier reporter. It is not true that, under the legislation being discussed, “gas-powered cars will no longer be sold in Virginia after 2035.” The legislation applies only to new vehicles. There is a difference. She should read her former employer’s paper more carefully: https://www.pilotonline.com/2022/08/26/virginias-on-a-path-to-adopt-californias-new-electric-vehicle-rules-but-some-legislators-say-not-so-fast/

    If it is OK for government to tell me the maximum length of grass allowed in my lawn, why is it not OK to tell me that I can’t use a gas-powered lawn mower, which emits more carbon dioxide proportionately than any motor vehicle? https://grist.org/technology/lawn-equipment-pollution-report/ Besides, those large lawn mowers and commercial leaf blowers have got to be in violation of noise ordinances.

    1. how_it_works Avatar
      how_it_works

      “Besides, those large lawn mowers and commercial leaf blowers have got to be in violation of noise ordinances.”

      Democrats didn’t seem to care too much about noise pollution when they made it so that you couldn’t get pulled over for a loud exhaust.

      I’ve never heard of anyone modifying outdoor power equipment to make it LOUDER, unlike cars, trucks, and motorcycles.

    2. how_it_works Avatar
      how_it_works

      “Besides, those large lawn mowers and commercial leaf blowers have got to be in violation of noise ordinances.”

      Democrats didn’t seem to care too much about noise pollution when they made it so that you couldn’t get pulled over for a loud exhaust.

      I’ve never heard of anyone modifying outdoor power equipment to make it LOUDER, unlike cars, trucks, and motorcycles.

    3. James Wyatt Whitehead Avatar
      James Wyatt Whitehead

      “The Man” is not going to do anything about high grass. That ordinance hasn’t been enforced in years here in Warrenton. The kinder gentler town council is just too sissy to be tough on anyone these days.

      1. how_it_works Avatar
        how_it_works

        Is Warrenton trying to become West Manassas?

        1. James Wyatt Whitehead Avatar
          James Wyatt Whitehead

          Well on our way. Data centers included.

          1. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            I saw a proposed power line map for data centers, one of them runs within 1/4 mile of my house. Build the damn things next to the substation.

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