Bacon's Rebellion

Democracy Thrives in Sunlight

The Buried Treasure under our Noses

—

by

James A. Bacon
in ,

GeoTel map shows location of major fiber-optic around Equinix's Ashburn facility, one of the largest data centers in the world.
GeoTel map shows location of major fiber-optic around Equinix’s Ashburn facility, one of the largest data centers in the world.

by James A. Bacon

It is a truism that roads, highways, rail and other transportation assets are key determinants of real estate value. Less widely recognized is the fact that proximity to the “information superhighway” also affects real estate value.

In 2010, Google spent $1.9 billion to buy a 2.9-million square foot building adjacent to a fiber-optic trunk line in a consolidation of its New York advertising and engineering operations — reportedly the largest single transaction in commercial real estate history. Of 7,000 commercial real estate transactions in New York City between 2007 and 2013, 40 were data centers and 385 were fiber-lit buildings. On average the fiber-lit buildings sold for 31% more than comparable, traditional commercial real estate.

The nice thing about streets, highways and rail lines is that they are highly visible. They show up on maps. By contrast, fiber-optic lines are buried. And ownership of the lines is highly fragmented. If you’re a business and, like Google, want access to fiber trunk-line connectivity, how do you find out where to look? GeoTel Communications LLC, based in Longwood, Fla., has compiled a proprietary database of millions of miles of fiber optic routes, 350,000 cell towers and rooftop sites, and 250,000 fiber-lit buildings.

In pitching its database, GeoTel makes an interesting argument for in-fill and re-development. Much of the nation’s fiber-optic network was laid during the 1990s and early 2000s. Demand did not materialize as rapidly as expected, with the result that there are “billions to trillions of dollars” of unused fiber-optic cable — a fiber-optic graveyard — lies buried across America.

That graveyard could be buried treasure. Longmont, Colo., recently located and repurposed an 18-mile fiber loop that had been installed for $1.1 million by a local power company and sat unused every since. It’s a silicon rush in Longmont as local companies clamor to hook up to a network that sometimes runs three times faster than what they had before.

“If cities want to revitalize their economy and increase jobs, high-speed connectivity is a must,” writes Fitzalan Crowe for GeoTel. “Behind cost, parking and location, access to advanced communication services is the number one selling point for commercial real estate and economic development.”

Fiber optic cable in the Washington region.
Fiber optic cable in the Washington region. Map source: GeoTel.

The map above shows three corridors of fiber-optic trunk line radiating out from Washington, D.C., one toward Rockville-Gaithersburg, Md., one toward Arlington-Fairfax, and a lesser one toward Baltimore. Insofar as fiber-optic cable is critical infrastructure for the knowledge economy, especially the technology-intensive enterprises in the Washington region, Fairfax, Arlington, Alexandria, Manassas and the eastern fringe of Loudoun County near Washington Dulles International Airport are far better positioned than outer precincts to capture job growth in the years ahead.

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40 responses to “The Buried Treasure under our Noses”

  1. larryg Avatar
    larryg

    Fascinating and one more example of the excellence of Jim Bacons skills!

    but I have some fly-in the-ointment questions:

    phrases : Universal Service Fund http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Service_Fund

    rural electrification

    farm-to-market roads

    would you deny these same productivity, job-creating benefits to non-urban areas?

  2. James A. Bacon Avatar
    James A. Bacon

    Somewhere I read a fascinating article describing the burgeoning “alternate energy” market — windmills — back in the 1920s, before FDR decided to promote rural electrification by means of hydroelectric dams, transmission lines and other big infrastructure. Basically, FDR put the wind-power industry out of business. Who knows how the electric power industry would have evolved in the absence of rural electrification? Who knows what the alternate energy industry would look like today? Who knows what alternate-energy R&D would have occurred over the previous half century?

    1. larryg Avatar
      larryg

      you have a current model. it’s called cable television and internet. They will not lay cable unless they have enough connections per mile.

      there are millions of people who get their TV via DISH and their internet via cell towers at god awful prices or HughesNet or similar at equally horrible prices and service.

      if you checked the Universal Service Fund in Wiki you’ll see it’s the modern version of the rural electrification program – except for communications.

      the private sector had ample time and opportunity to pursue rural infrastructure and it became apparent that they had no appetite for it.

      not only here – around the world in all remote areas… it’s a simple matter of how much it costs to build infrastructure and how much they can make on it and they cannot make money on it.

      what is your plan B other than some fuzzy theory about what might have happened?

  3. TMT Avatar
    TMT

    The FCC, with a strong push from Democrat Julius Genachowski and Republican Robert McDowell, has made war on rural telecom. Any fool knows it’s much more expensive to provide service in rural areas. Many of the costs are fixed and the density is simply not there. So rural service providers used to charge more to originate and terminate interstate calls.

    In order to coddle AT&T and Verizon, the FCC has adopted a plan that would prohibit local service providers from charging anything to terminate traffic. Bill and Keep and limited Universal Service Fund support. A great way to provide rural companies with the cash and credit to build fiber networks.

    Even in an IP-based network, voice is more expensive than ordinary data. For VoIP to work, its packets must be given priority. Yet, the FCC says, ultimately, you rural types cannot charge for terminating calls. Pure stupidity.

    Full disclosure – I often do legal work for rural service providers.

    1. larryg Avatar
      larryg

      not sure what is meant by “terminating calls”.

      but we had this issue a long time ago when farms in the rural areas had no electricity, no phone service and not even maintained roads.

      that was long before the FCC…

      I cannot get over the blame game we play now days.

      these problems and issues were with us LONG BEFORE the current govt agencies every existed.

      and yet we now BLAME the CURRENT agencies as if the problem never existed before they become agencies…

      this is loony tunes….

  4. Breckinridge Avatar
    Breckinridge

    Baconator — if FDR had ignored rural electrification and waited for windmills to spring up like mushrooms, the rural US would have ended up like the rural USSR before WWII and rural China after WWII — a graveyard for starved peasants sacrificed on an ideological altar. The rural vastness of the US might still be a wasteland, with far lower farm yields, devoid of manufacturing jobs. The Rural Electrification Administration, the Tennessee Valley Authority, and the Soil and Water Conservation Program were arguably the best of the many experiments of the New Deal (some of which were disasters.) For the reasons already stated, with the low population densities and the Depression the incentives were slim for private power development.

    1. larryg Avatar
      larryg

      indeed.

      the rural areas of the US would have ended up like the rural areas of ASIA or AFRICA or South America – unless something different happened.

      the private sector has a simple paradigm – if they can make a profit at something, the will – if they cannot, they won’t.

      is that approach what is best for the entire country and all who live in it no matter where they live?

      the 600 series roads in Va as well as the better-known and better labelled farm-to-market roads in Texas were built as win-win infrastructure that would empower commerce … the same way we talk now days about ports and air cargo and similar.

      If you listen to Bacon – all the govt infrastructure projects of the past were basically crony capitalism and it all would have happened (eventually) under the private sector – but at their pace – not a faster pace.

      So under the Bacon worldview – we’d surely have GPS satellites but not until 2080!!!

    2. Acbar Avatar
      Acbar

      You hear this thought so often, if not so well-put: “If FDR had ignored rural electrification and waited for windmills to spring up like mushrooms, the rural US would have ended up like the rural USSR before WWII and rural China after WWII — a graveyard for starved peasants sacrificed on an ideological altar. The rural vastness of the US might still be a wasteland, with far lower farm yields, devoid of manufacturing jobs.”
      Well, not exactly. The “rural vastness of the US” would have been opened up when there was a business demand to do so. That demand would have spread from urban centers, where there was already population (and consumption) density and the infrastructure to serve it, in expansions driven by business opportunity. Those expansions would not necessarily be POV-transportation based.
      Meanwhile – consider the consequences: urban growth limited by the cost of expanding infrastructure and the cost of commuting; denser urban areas; suburbs without subsidy.
      Sure, the sticks would “still be a wasteland” from the suburbanite’s point of view: relatively inaccessible, relatively remote. Also relatively unpolluted, relatively low-impact.
      Are we so certain the sprawl we have today represents the better path?

      1. larryg Avatar
        larryg

        take a trip to a rural area that grows things – corn, wheat, cabbages, hogs, cattle, etc.

        notice two things:

        1. – roads – roads that connect to a national grid of interstates that take whatever is produced and moves it to market within hours.

        2. – electricity – whether it’s a milking machine or a irrigation pump – electricity drives rural production of their products.

        Now rather than argue the value of these things I would direct one to the other parts of the world – rural areas that do not have either – and ask if it makes much difference.

        and the bonus question: where is the private sector on roads and electricity is other countries rural areas ?

        the ironic thing is that not a single urban area could survive very well without the external farms that produce the food (and the power) that urban areas need.

        there are existing real-world examples – go to virtually any urban area in Asia, Africa or South America and see how commerce is conducted in the urban area especially with regard to food (and electricity).

        meat does not sit in coolers. It hangs from hooks in the marketplace with flies laying maggot eggs on it. chickens and ducks are live – slaughtered on the spot and the carcass handed to you to take home and NOT put in a fridge.

        I think every single right wing ideologue should be forced to spend a year in a 3rd world country – and then come back home and blather ….

        1. Breckinridge Avatar
          Breckinridge

          This right wing ideologue indeed spent many years of his youth in less developed countries, thanks to his father’s USAF career, and it does add perspective.

  5. James A. Bacon Avatar
    James A. Bacon

    Larrrrryyyy, you’re putting words in my mouth. I didn’t say I opposed rural electrification. I haven’t studied the issue closely enough to have formed an opinion. I merely noted that there was a market alternative to it.

    Breckenridge, you surpass yourself with hyperbole: “The rural US would have ended up like the rural USSR before WWII and rural China after WWII — a graveyard for starved peasants sacrificed on an ideological altar. ”

    Really, without rural electrification, America’s ruling elite would have confiscated land from the kulaks and launched “great leaps forward”? Without the intervention of the federal government, all rural progress would have come to a halt?

    C’mon, admit it, you got a little carried away there.

    1. larryg Avatar
      larryg

      ” I merely noted that there was a market alternative to it.”

      but there’s not…. if there were it would have happened. It’s a BIG COUNTRY with LOTS of places that were opportunities LONG BEFORE the govt decided the private sector was not going to do it.

      you guys… ya’ll KILL ME. the free market had a LONG TIME and a huge country to get a running start at this – and they did not do it.

      These companies will give you exact data on how many hookups they’d have to have per mile in order to be profitable – and rural areas are never going to be that dense -not for a long time – and for some – generations.

  6. reed fawell III Avatar
    reed fawell III

    The import of the New York Google building acquisition may well auger enormous consequences for the location of future development depending on any given locales access to these lines, all as Jim’s article suggests.

    In a world not twisted out of shape by politics and nonsensical obstacles, these lines on a price versus benefit basis would give higher density development yet one more powerful advantage. Perhaps one big enough to help overcome other illogical obstacles to smart growth.

    So, done right, such lines may be another tool on the horizon that dilutes the traffic gridlock that humans seem incapable of resolving on our own.

    This article reminds me of fracking. How true innovation derived from original thinking comes out of nowhere to overwhelm the group think and mad chase after wind and solar and bio fuels power that to date has been a total bust relative to vast amounts of money spent for so little gain.

    Likely the same will prove true in altering the way we plan and build roads. The madness of building roads for the reasons behind the”north south connector” will be overwhelmed by innovation such as these fiber communication lines. Connectivity by concrete into the hindersland is rapidity proving itself akin the fighting WW11 with battleships.

    In any case, the sooner we manage to cut off the waste spigot the better.

  7. larryg Avatar
    larryg

    the urban infrastructure exists, at least in part, because of the govt that provides the infrastructure – the tunnels the rights-of-way for the private sector services -just as they do with roads and rail.

    and the fracking… think about how good fracking would be if it were not for the govt taking land from some people to give to the fracking people to move their product… what if they did not have govt ED to build their pipelines?

    Ya’ll seem to have one view of govt for Smart Growth and another view of the role of govt for communications and electrical, water/sewer infrastructure.

    admit it guys… the govt does infrastructure – and enables private sector infrastructure.

    1. James A. Bacon Avatar
      James A. Bacon

      Larry, you’re tilting at non-existent, laissez-faire windmills. Of course, government has a role in infrastructure. I’m not an anarchist. As I said before, I’m agnostic on the issue of federally led rural electrification. I simply don’t have the facts to make a judgment.

      But playing devil’s advocate…. there may not be a market alternative *now* to rural electrification, but that’s because rural electrification killed off the market alternative decades ago! I’m not advocating that we rip out electric lines to rural areas. They’re there. Keep them. But I am saying the electric power industry would have evolved very differently if FDR hadn’t gotten involved. The wind- and solar-powered industries would had developed a mass market in rural areas, they would have achieved economies of scale undreamed of at present, driving down costs, and they would have invested billions of dollars over the years in R&D. Who knows how big the “alternate energy” industry might be today?

      1. larryg Avatar
        larryg

        re: “but I am saying the electric power industry would have evolved very differently if FDR hadn’t gotten involved. ”

        The problem with right wing thinking is it pretends there is only the US and not a planet.

        what happened on these issues – ON THE PLANET?

        Did the US and FDR get eclipsed by the rest of the world on different and better rural electrification?

        on the planet – 200+ countries and a raging free market – which rural areas in which countries got electricity -and which did not?

        Can you point to some countries who did not have an FDR where the alternative won out and produced a better, non-govt outcome?

        You guys KILL ME Bacon…. how in the world do you reason these things? You’ve got the entire planet to look at – and you blame FDR?

        jesus…

        1. James A. Bacon Avatar
          James A. Bacon

          Try reading the Wikipedia entry on the history of wind power. Plenty of other countries used wind power to generate electricity.

          Regarding the United States: In 1927 the brothers Joe Jacobs and Marcellus Jacobs opened a factory, Jacobs Wind in Minneapolis to produce wind turbine generators for farm use. These would typically be used for lighting or battery charging, on farms out of reach of central-station electricity and distribution lines. In 30 years the firm produced about 30,000 small wind turbines, some of which ran for many years in remote locations in Africa and on the Richard Evelyn Byrd expedition to Antarctica.[17] Many other manufacturers produced small wind turbine sets for the same market, including companies called Wincharger, Miller Airlite, Universal Aeroelectric, Paris-Dunn, Airline and Winpower.

          In 1931 the Darrieus wind turbine was invented, with its vertical axis providing a different mix of design tradeoffs from the conventional horizontal-axis wind turbine. The vertical orientation accepts wind from any direction with no need for adjustments, and the heavy generator and gearbox equipment can rest on the ground instead of atop a tower.

          By the 1930s windmills were widely used to generate electricity on farms in the United States where distribution systems had not yet been installed. Used to replenish battery storage banks, these machines typically had generating capacities of a few hundred watts to several kilowatts. Beside providing farm power, they were also used for isolated applications such as electrifying bridge structures to prevent corrosion. In this period, high tensile steel was cheap, and windmills were placed atop prefabricated open steel lattice towers.

          The most widely-used small wind generator produced for American farms in the 1930s was a two-bladed horizontal-axis machine manufactured by the Wincharger Corporation. It had a peak output of 200 watts. Blade speed was regulated by curved air brakes near the hub that deployed at excessive rotational velocities. These machines were still being manufactured in the United States during the 1980s. In 1936, the U.S. started a rural electrification project that killed the natural market for wind-generated power, since network power distribution provided a farm with more dependable usable energy for a given amount of capital investment.

          1. larryg Avatar
            larryg

            what happened to the rest of the world? are they using wind power?

            how about most of the world’s islands like Hawaii and Bermuda – Puerto Rico ? are they using wind turbines or importing coal and oil to burn?

            Google – electricity – and your favorite island…

          2. reed fawell III Avatar
            reed fawell III

            One lesson of this Wikipedia piece is that the 1930’s farmer had far more knowledge about the practical applications of wind than our heavily subsidized Faux entrepreneur of green power does today.

            Why all loss of practical knowledge?

            One answer is that the 1930’s farmer had skin in the game.

            In startling contrast, the heavily subsidized Faux entrepreneur of green power does today has the reverse – a legalized way to waste large amounts of other peoples’ money while lining his own pockets with a healthy portion of those public moneys. All of course with the most noble of intentions – saving our planet.
            Like for example, our former vice president Al Gore.

          3. larryg Avatar
            larryg

            how does that explain the rest of the world including islands?

            Only the US had that nasty FDR rural electrification program.

            there were 200+ other countries without FDR and millions of acres of rural areas. Why did wind not take over and prosper in those other places?

          4. larryg Avatar
            larryg

            re: FDR, Al Gore, and all other socialist enemies….

            this is grade A blather in the context of the world guys.

            it’s more partisan blame game foolishness.

            FDR did not kill wind power for the planet.

            Al Gore did not defraud the planet on green energy.

            get a grip guys… deal with some realities and dump the partisan fairy tales!

          5. James A. Bacon Avatar
            James A. Bacon

            Denmark did windmills. Netherlands did windmills. Not all countries around the world did. Maybe because (a) they didn’t have the appropriate wind conditions, (b) they didn’t have the requisite level of technological expertise, or (c) they didn’t have the entrepreneurial tradition. I wouldn’t expect the Congo or Nepal to be likely candidates back in the 1920s-30s.

            The fact that you ignore, Larry, is that the U.S. had a wind-power industry, and that wind power industry died. And it died as a result of rural electrification, as multiple sources will attest! That’s reality, Larry. Reality!!! Only LarryG could deny that reality!!!

          6. larryg Avatar
            larryg

            re:
            ” Denmark did windmills. Netherlands did windmills. Not all countries around the world did. ”

            windmills to generate electricity?

            “Maybe because (a) they didn’t have the appropriate wind conditions,”

            the world is a big place Jim – the ONLY place the conditions were “right” was Rural America – BZZZT

            ” (b) they didn’t have the requisite level of technological expertise,”

            around the entire planet? you just said they knew about windmills guy….. do you think the US was the only country with “expertise”?

            “or (c) they didn’t have the entrepreneurial tradition. I wouldn’t expect the Congo or Nepal to be likely candidates back in the 1920s-30s.”

            200+ countries on the planet and we are the ONLY ONE that has an entrepreneurial “tradition”? Do you think the US is the only country with that tradition?

            “The fact that you ignore, Larry, is that the U.S. had a wind-power industry, and that wind power industry died. And it died as a result of rural electrification, as multiple sources will attest! That’s reality, Larry. Reality!!! Only LarryG could deny that reality!!!”

            no Jim – we had windmills like similar to what the Netherlands had but no electricity generation just like the rest of the world did not either. the wind “industry” – on the entire planet, to include the US was not generating electricity in any significant way.

            and no matter what happened in the US – if the technology was there , it would have progressed in other countries.

            You and Reed and a couple others cannot keep yourself from getting wrapped around the axle on your partisan ideology that “blames” people like FDR for essentially killing the wind industry for the US and an entirely different reasons explain the rest of the world.

            I’d not defending FDR here… I just think it’s bizarre to parse this issue according to ideology.

      2. larryg Avatar
        larryg

        here’s a start…. http://www.instituteforenergyresearch.org/state-regs/pdf/Hawaii.pdf

        tell me how Hawaii (who was not around for FDR’s rural electrification) did not evolve to wind instead of fossil fuels?

        1. James A. Bacon Avatar
          James A. Bacon

          Hawaii evolved to generated electricity with fossil fuels because fossil fuels were more economical than wind. Duh! If fossil fuel technology had not been available, though, I dare say that Hawaii would have turned to wind.

          1. larryg Avatar
            larryg

            but you just said that wind got clobbered by FDR…. not fossil fuels.

            right?

            you’re weaseling here guy.

            there are dozens if not hundreds of islands in other countries than the US with that nasty ole FDR guy and his rural electrification scheme.

            how many, without FDR’s “interference” adopted wind instead of importing fossil fuels?

            I think you just tripped on your partisan anti-FDR ideology guy!!!

            this country leaped to 1st place economically in the world because:

            1. – we gave away land to the railroads in exchange for a rail network

            2. – we electrified the rural areas

            3. – we built roads to farms and we connected the country with an interstate….

            4. – we gave the power of eminent domain to pipeline operators

            Our world-class commerce is powered largely by govt-provisioned infrastructure not much by the private sector free market.

          2. James A. Bacon Avatar
            James A. Bacon

            Larry, this conversation is INSANE!

            When I said FDR killed wind power, I never suggested that wind power would have transplanted conventional electric generation nationally — just in remote areas where it was expensive to extend electric transmission lines! This should not be hard to grasp!!!

        2. larryg Avatar
          larryg

          re: ” When I said FDR killed wind power, I never suggested that wind power would have transplanted conventional electric generation nationally — just in remote areas where it was expensive to extend electric transmission lines! This should not be hard to grasp!!! ”

          and I asked you if that was respect to the entire planet – in 199 other countries that FDR played no role….in their rural areas where, according to your premise wind power would have progressed as a free market private sector success story.

          and that did not happen – and it had nothing to do with FDR..

          so the entire premise that FDR’s rural electrification program was responsible for the demise of wind power in the US – but the the other countries – wind power failed for economic reasons.

          really?

          don’t you think if wind power failed in all the other countries due to economic reasons that it would have also failed in the US with or without FDR?

          1. James A. Bacon Avatar
            James A. Bacon

            Go argue your case with the historians, not me.

  8. Richard Avatar
    Richard

    If Google wanted to build a 3 million sq ft building in Richmond or Virginia Beach I daresay that Gov. McDonnell would himself dig the trench to make the connection.

  9. larryg Avatar
    larryg

    Oh I think if they slipped him 20K under the table he would for sure!

  10. Bob Bruhns Avatar
    Bob Bruhns

    Here is wind power that doesn’t need a big support tower. Furthermore, it can be brought down easily for maintenance or protection. I wish I had thought of this.
    http://in.reuters.com/video/2013/05/29/balloons-set-to-take-wind-power-to-new-h?videoId=243048958

    1. reed fawell III Avatar
      reed fawell III

      Now that’s creative!

  11. larryg Avatar
    larryg

    I am a hopeful but pragmatic believer in wind (and solar) power but what strikes me now – and looking back historically – is the hundreds of islands that have no native fossil fuel resources and had – and have choices of coal, oil, wind and solar – even to mix match according to wind and solar conditions.

    Now, unlike Jim Bacon – one would think that wind and solar would be pretty darn good on most islands and they would have been the perfect laboratory to site wind to produce electricity – but alas even with FDR not around to screw it up, it did not get used to any large degree to generate electricity but what did get used was fossil fuels – and when you add the transportation expenses, most fossil fuel-generated electricity on islands costs on the order of 40-60 cents per kwh ( compare to 10-12 cents here).

    Remember, I believe in wind and solar – I want to see them succeed.

    but if they cannot succeed yet with 2013 technology, think about 1934 technology not just in rural America but everywhere rural on the earth including the hundreds of islands.

    the only way to make this work – that FDR killed it in the US and something else killed in on the entire rest of the planet – is through a partisan lens.

    Today – wind power is JUST STARTING to be used for generating electricity even on islands – and there are still questions about the economics which center around the longevity of the parts of the turbines (vs the parts used in a fossil fuel generation plant).

    The critics, of whom folks who hew from the right comprise most often are usually staunchly opposed to wind power as “crony capitalism” because the government is supporting pilot companies (much like the govt gave land to railroads and uses eminent domain to producers of gas/oil for pipelines).

    so you find the critics of wind power – those who oppose it – at the same time claiming that FDR killed it for rural America.

    that’s a pretty cynical view – a clearly partisan view with shades of hypocrisy in my opinion.

    I just think people need to be more honest about these issues and put them in a non-partisan light and see if their view still rings true when the partisan part has been removed.

    for me – when you look at wind power on a world basis and not just a rural America basis – it makes the claim that FDR killed wind power – just preposterous but it sure don’t stop the partisan “history” – even when the facts in a world context are clear and unambiguous.

  12. James A. Bacon Avatar
    James A. Bacon

    All I can tell you is what I have seen attested from multiple sources: Rural electrification killed off the nascent wind-power industry in the United States. You don’t have to believe me. Just go look at the historical record. I’m not being ideological — I’m simply repeating what I have read elsewhere. *You* are the one being ideological by leaping to the defense of FDR.

    1. reed fawell III Avatar
      reed fawell III

      And of course, the truth of that fact does not mean the government sponsored rural electrification was the wrong decision either, given all the circumstances at play, any more that building the interstate road system was wrong.

      1. larryg Avatar
        larryg

        It’s not wrong or right – on a partisan political basis in my view.

        you can argue the policy issue both ways but the judgement of
        (not one guy but a large number of elected representatives) was:

        1. – roads should be built into the rural areas to benefit commerce – farm-to-market – and the reverse – the mechanization of the farm from wheeled access to gasoline to power motorized farm equipment like tractors and combines rather than using mules, oxen, horses.

        roads not only got farm products to market – but it enables fuel to get to motorized farm equipment.

        one could argue that roads easily paid for themselves from the increase in productivity – and commerce.

        2. – it was not such a big step after that to believe that electricity could also be a similar game-changer on the farm.

        Wind had more than 50 unmolested FDR years to progress as a technology to generate electricity on farms – but the simple reality was that even though many farms had turbines – they used them for pumping and not electricity – not only in the US but farms around the world.

        the technology for wind to produce electricity – existed – but it was not economic and would not be for another 80 years and even now today – it’s not considered economic – even in rural areas of the world that do not have electricity even now.

  13. larryg Avatar
    larryg

    re: ” All I can tell you is what I have seen attested from multiple sources: Rural electrification killed off the nascent wind-power industry in the United States.”

    let’s assume that’s true. what kept the rest of the world from doing it?

    real reasons now… not some blather about a lack of innovation or the lack of good sites!

    ” You don’t have to believe me. Just go look at the historical record. I’m not being ideological — I’m simply repeating what I have read elsewhere. *You* are the one being ideological by leaping to the defense of FDR”

    FDR did not implement the program on his own. He signed the bill passed by Congress. Are you implicating all those in Congress who voted for it also?

    I’m not defending FDR or anyone. I’m questioning the premise that in one country one guy caused it to fail and in every other country in the world – it also failed – because it was uneconomic.

    ” In the late 19th Century, the first windmill to generate electricity was born! This was the Brush postmill in Cleveland Ohio, and the year was 1888! The rotor was approximately 17 meters in diameter. This windmill had a gearbox with a high spin ratio attached to a DC generator.”

    this was almost 50 years before the rural electrification program.

    here’s a world perspective Jim:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2008/oct/17/wind-power-renewable-energy

    see anyone blaming FDR?

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