That Transparency Will Cost You

Robert Barnett, President, Virginia NAACP.   Photo credit: Richmond Free Press

by Dick Hall-Sizemore

Attorney General Jason Miyares promised “to increase transparency” in regard to elections. In fact, this was one of the motivations behind the creation of the Election Integrity Unit. However, it seems that this transparency comes with a price.

As reported by the Richmond Times-Dispatch, the Virginia NAACP filed a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request for records related to the establishment of the Election Integrity Unit, its expenditures and activities, and for records of documented cases of election fraud in Virginia. The AG’s office responded that the cost of providing the records requested would be $20,000.

The FOIA statutes authorize an agency to “make reasonable charges not to exceed its actual cost incurred” a condition of providing the material requested. I do not know what material the NAACP requested nor the basis upon which the AG’s office calculated the cost, but $20,000 seems pretty high. It has been my personal experience that agencies pad these estimates as a way of discouraging requests. The NAACP could have challenged the reasonableness of the cost in court, but that would have taken time. Therefore, the organization paid.

Before I go any further, I want to make it clear that hiding behind the FOIA is not new with this administration. All administrations, both Democrats and Republicans, have at times gone out of their way to make it difficult for the public to obtain public records. Curiously, that attitude is seldom uniform throughout an administration. Some agencies are very cooperative; others are not and put up barriers where they can.

It is outrageous that the public can be required to pay to get copies of public records. The agencies contend that complying with these requests takes staff time. But, that is not an additional cost for the agencies. They already have appropriations to pay those staff members. The rejoinder is that having to comply with FOIA requests takes staff away from other tasks. That might be so, but the General Assembly has made the provision of public records to the public a high priority. Those other tasks will have to wait. Besides, getting money from the requester does not mean that the other work gets done quicker. The staff still have to put other work aside and take time to comply with the FOIA request. The money paid by the requestor just gets deposited into the general fund. Therefore, in the end, charging for providing material that has been requested is a way of discouraging people from making requests.

I realize that not levying any charge for furnishing records through the FOIA would invite abuse. A person, on a whim, could make a request that involved thousands or even millions of records. Another example would be a person making an FOIA request every day, thereby making a nuisance of himself. Laws and regulations could be formulated to deal with these abuses without penalizing the average citizen, media representative, or organization who desired records for legitimate reasons.


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83 responses to “That Transparency Will Cost You”

  1. James McCarthy Avatar
    James McCarthy

    To be clear as the Times reported, the $20K is a deposit to cover the AG’s estimate of 500 hours to provide the material. The 20 attorney Election Integrity unit will at least have some tasks to complete. Do not forget that Sen. Chase provided as yet unrevealed material to the AG concerning 2020 election irregularities. The workload should keep the unit busy through the Nov election and beyond.

    1. Nancy Naive Avatar
      Nancy Naive

      There is no such thing as a deposit with a lawyer. It’s called a “retainer”, and it is forfeit.

    2. Eric the half a troll Avatar
      Eric the half a troll

      Aren’t their salaries already paid by taxpayers?

      1. Nancy Naive Avatar
        Nancy Naive

        Yeah, but there out there who would FOIA the government to double in size, which would defeat their stated purpose.

  2. walter smith Avatar
    walter smith

    This isn’t crazy like me agreeing with Larry (almost statistically impossible) because DHS is usually reasonable on his criticisms and comments, even if always from the Left side. In this case, he does point out a real issue.
    I have filed many FOIAs at UVA, and sometimes it is just so frustrating. I particularly hate the cost estimates. UVA’s email search protocol appears designed to increase costs and scare you away (and is usually successful, or has you narrow the request so much you are lucky to hit what you are looking for). Another UVA trick is to parse the words very carefully… Oh, it’s not a contract, it is a series of emails where a NYT writer agrees to come to UVA and the Law School has agreed to pay him, but hasn’t paid him yet so “no monies have been paid.” See? I also hate the FERPA dodge (student privacy – I don’t want to know about any student – I want aggregate info). Getting the approved exemption and denied exemption from UVA over Covid has been impossible, and I don’t believe it. The knew everyone not vaxed and required weekly testing, and they don’t have the record of exemption requests?
    Yet another good trick is to say they won’t create a document – they have a program and the program has all the data and can spit it out as requested, but it doesn’t exist in paper…currently.
    The costs aspect has some value to stop requests that are just harrassment, but it is abused.
    Also, there really should be some punishment for the delays and game playing, but how to balance all that is hard.
    Finally, when you do sue, the agencies have lawyers who do this all the time and the Judges do not have the knowledge of FOIA to the same extent and are too deferential to the agencies.

    1. LarrytheG Avatar

      I would not be at all surprised in Walter’s FOIA requests are considered “frivolous” and silly and clearly Walter quite likely has a political motive to boot. Did UVA do the 20K thing to Walter also?

      1. walter smith Avatar
        walter smith

        All Hail King Larry the Benevolent, who never says anything partisan and is the fount of all impartial wisdom, the creator, with Dr. St. Fau(x)ci, of SCIENCE! and defender of all Democrat (and government causes (when controlled by Dems) (But I repeat myself)) for the ultimate benefit of lies, ignorance and the Authoritarian Way!
        Larry – some things are political, and some are informational, and some are oversight. Kinda depends on whose ox is being gored. UVA plays games. Dick suggests, and maybe rightly, that the AG’s office could be playing games. You know AG Herring and Gov Blackface – oops – Northam – told me they had nothing on Louise Lucas. AG never responded. I find that HARD to believe. Gov said had nothing. I had to reply with a screenshot from Ralphie’s Twitter commenting on this. The FOIA rep for Gov (a nice young lady it seemed) got back with, “Oh, yeah, that’s it.”

        People in power need oversight. ALL people. Even people on “my” side. Especially people on your side. And that’s why people on the Right are called anti-vaxxers, election deniers, conspiracy theorists, racists, etc. You do have stuff to hide.

        Rule in life – if anyone in a position of trust does not open the books immediately, he is stealing.

      2. walter smith Avatar
        walter smith

        All Hail King Larry the Benevolent, who never says anything partisan and is the fount of all impartial wisdom, the creator, with Dr. St. Fau(x)ci, of SCIENCE! and defender of all Democrat (and government causes (when controlled by Dems) (But I repeat myself)) for the ultimate benefit of lies, ignorance and the Authoritarian Way!
        Larry – some things are political, and some are informational, and some are oversight. Kinda depends on whose ox is being gored. UVA plays games. Dick suggests, and maybe rightly, that the AG’s office could be playing games. You know AG Herring and Gov Blackface – oops – Northam – told me they had nothing on Louise Lucas. AG never responded. I find that HARD to believe. Gov said had nothing. I had to reply with a screenshot from Ralphie’s Twitter commenting on this. The FOIA rep for Gov (a nice young lady it seemed) got back with, “Oh, yeah, that’s it.”

        People in power need oversight. ALL people. Even people on “my” side. Especially people on your side. And that’s why people on the Right are called anti-vaxxers, election deniers, conspiracy theorists, racists, etc. You do have stuff to hide.

        Rule in life – if anyone in a position of trust does not open the books immediately, he is stealing.

        1. LarrytheG Avatar

          I imagine they know you WELL in some offices Walter!

          Partisan? Do you read your own “stuff” guy, from Russia to Hunter to lord knows what and yep.. anti-vaxxer by your own admission and yes, trades in conspiracy theories, though not sure I’ve heard Q-anon but would not be surprised.

          1. walter smith Avatar
            walter smith

            Larry – is it OK to be partisan? You’re not? Get a grip…
            And I am not an anti-vaxxer, but you are too biased to understand because you just recite your agit-prop.
            I was against the MANDATES. They were unnecessary and immoral, and despite what various Courts have held so far, illegal. They were against ALL Patients Rights policies in all hospitals. They broke the EUA law. They violated the Nuremberg Code. Now, add on that the “vaccine” didn’t work…
            Hey, still waiting for ONE THING RIGHT in Govt Covid policy…
            I won’t wait, I have stuff to do. Maybe you can come up with something when I am back in a few hours. Heck, maybe it will even be almost true!

          2. LarrytheG Avatar

            Walter, I could have sworn you were ALSO opposed to the vaccine itself… no?

            see “partisan” to me means political… so in theory someone could be say, an anti-vaxxer and not be political. Obviously not true when they are anti-science and at the same time all wound up over “Hunter”….

    2. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
      Dick Hall-Sizemore

      I also was presented with the argument that the record I was requesting did not exist. My response was that the actual piece of paper may not exist, but I knew that the data I was requesting did exist. All agency staff had to do was create a query (two minutes, tops) and produce a file. The file could then be e-mailed as an attachment to me. Simple.

      1. walter smith Avatar
        walter smith

        Yep. UVA “created” documents for me for a while, but when I hit on what they didn’t want people to know…

  3. LesGabriel Avatar
    LesGabriel

    Charges for actual copying costs should be permitted. Man-hours, up to a limit that could vary between agencies should not be charged.

    1. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
      Dick Hall-Sizemore

      I don’t disagree about the copying. However, because so much is digital these days, there should be a minimum of copying unless you need records from way back.

      1. Teddy007 Avatar

        But how does one hand over digital copies these days? Create a cloud account and give the requestor access?

        1. how_it_works Avatar
          how_it_works

          I would burn the files to a DVD-R. Cheap and easy.

          1. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            And forces the requester to go to an antique electronics shop….

          2. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            Like Best Buy?

          3. Teddy007 Avatar

            And who has a d DVD drive on their computer anymore?

          4. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            The Government and Military better, considering they disable the usb drives. You require a waiver to use them.

          5. Teddy007 Avatar

            What is what the cloud is for. Any computer without USB drives is not going to have a DVD drive anymore.

          6. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            “Teddy007 Matt Adams • a minute ago
            What is what the cloud is for. Any computer without USB drives is not going to have a DVD drive anymore.”

            They aren’t going to be using the “cloud” and no. Computer’s are still manufactured with DVD drives. They just aren’t the cheap price of a Chromebook and that isn’t what the Government or Military order.

            If you have a presentation for a Government Agency and or the DOD, it will be on a CD.

          7. Teddy007 Avatar

            The last DOD conference I presented at required us to register at a website and upload the presentation before travelling to the conference. That way each room already had all of the presentations read to go. Remember, it is 2022.

          8. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            “Teddy007 8 minutes ago
            The last DOD conference I presented at required us to register at a website and upload the presentation before travelling to the conference. That way each room already had all of the presentations read to go. Remember, it is 2022.”

            So if it’s 2022, why did you use secure FTP and not the “cloud”. If you were presenting at the DOD you were presenting on the NIPRNet, which is still a network (non-secure) that is operated by the DOD.

            Again, usb ports are disabled for external data sources for a reason (an external CD drive is a peripheral device that will still operate much like a CAC card reader, mouse and keyboard) . One of them being agnet.btz in 2008 and the other being Edward Snowden.

            You keep sticking your foot in your mouth when you comment and berate anyone that provides you with facts inconvenient to you.

          9. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            Give him a break, he knows “the cloud” is where it’s at!

          10. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            Clearly considering he indicated he had to use technology that was developed in 1971 to present to the DOD.

          11. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            These people are blissfully unaware that “the cloud” has been around for 50 years or more, it just used to be known as “the mainframe”.

          12. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            It would probably shock these people (who clearly do not work in IT) to find out that tape drives are still being used. They probably think that all data is backed up using “the cloud” and thumb drives.

          13. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            It would probably shock these people (who clearly do not work in IT) to find out that tape drives are still being used. They probably think that all data is backed up using “the cloud” and thumb drives.

          14. LarrytheG Avatar

            NAS usually these days, no?

            Tapes are definitely “old school” in most places now.

            I can’t imagine… searching for a file that has not been backed up on NAS and it’s deep into that tape…and you have several tapes and don’t know which one….. nope.

          15. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            Larry, have you EVER used a modern tape backup system?

            There’s a catalog/database that tells the backup software exactly what tape a file is on.

            And you don’t even have to get out of your chair to go load it into the drive, because they have “tape libraries” which automatically pull the correct tape and load it into the drive.

            All automated. Some of these tape libraries can hold hundreds or thousands of tapes, but the biggest I’ve used holds about 50.

          16. LarrytheG Avatar

            Is the “directory” on the front of the tape itself so you can load the tape, see the directory and file and go from there?

            In order to do what you are saying, it would take something like a tape version of a juke box, no? You would have a set number of physical “slots” and the like, no?

            Can you supply a link to one of these “modern” ones?

            NAS is just a rack of hard drives… no moving parts…

          17. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            The “directory” is built into the software used to do the backups and restore files, like Veritas Netbackup. It knows what’s on each tape.

            A tape library can be thought of as a juke box.

            Google for Dell ML3/ML3E to see a current production one. I’d give a link but this post would probably get marked as spam.

          18. LarrytheG Avatar

            14K … wow!

          19. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            There are cheaper ones, you can get smaller ones (8 slot) for under $3K.

            That one is designed to be expandable up to 272 slots or something like that.

          20. LarrytheG Avatar

            Got it. Thanks. This is for sites with various different type of systems on that network?

          21. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            Yes, it can backup Windows, Linux, Unix, and probably Mac systems too. You have an agent that’s installed on the server or workstation to be backed up which communicates with the backup server, which in turn communicates with the tape library.

            Could back up every workstation and server on a network like this.

          22. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            Also should mention that with a tape library, every tape gets a barcode label with a unique number to identify it.

            I’ve printed these labels myself using label paper and a laser printer, because although you can buy these labels pre-printed, you don’t get much choice as to the starting sequence or label format unless you’re buying thousands.

          23. LarrytheG Avatar

            sounds manual…. and would need written procedures for anyone on team to do…. this is where you got one guy and he’s the only one who knows?

          24. LarrytheG Avatar

            gotta go, check back later…

          25. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            You print up a few hundred or thousand barcodes at a time, and whenever you remove a tape (because it’s being sent for off-site storage) and replace it with a new one, you peel the next barcode off and stick it on the new tape.

            It’s not really that difficult.

            They don’t even need to be used in sequence–the important thing is that they are all unique, no duplicates.

          26. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            And NAS doesn’t solve the issue of off-site storage. Backup up to tapes in a library does, since the tapes can be removed and sent offsite.. And there isn’t malware written yet that can mess up a tape library, but a NAS can be corrupted by malware just like any other drive.

          27. LarrytheG Avatar

            you’re talking about Disaster Recovery, right?

            I thought these days, they’d have “cold” and “warm” backup sites that can be “failed over” to.

            Like a bank or Amazon would have… always up… even when disk/machine casualties, no?

          28. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            We had a Federal customer that required that EVERY single tape backup kept “forever”, and it had to be kept off-site. Part of that was disaster recovery, part of that was archiving of old data so that it could be retrieved years later.

          29. LarrytheG Avatar

            tapes are gonna degrade… no?

            and you need to tape reader itself… so that’s got to be kept around and functioning even after it’s replaced with follow on models…

            Are you familiar with NetApp?

          30. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            Tapes have at least a 30 year life. How long do you think the drives in a NAS last?

            And with LTO tapes, each new generation of hardware can read at least two generations prior.

            NetApp is a NAS/disk array. I’ve used it, but it’s not a solution for long-term backup storage the way tapes are.

          31. LarrytheG Avatar

            yep, but NetApps can FEED a tape backup system, no?

          32. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            Sure they can. You could certainly have a backup system that backed up to a NAS/disk array and then wrote that to tape.

            I had a system like that–daily incrementals were written to disk, and then weekly fulls were written to tape.

            So if I needed to restore anything, as long as it was something from less than a week ago, it was backed up on disk.

            Older than a week, it was on tape.

          33. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            A USB DVD-R drive costs less than $50. What’s the problem here?

            EDIT: $20 at Best Buy.

          34. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            A USB DVD-R drive costs less than $50. What’s the problem here?

            EDIT: $20 at Best Buy.

          35. LarrytheG Avatar

            not just a simple USB drive?

            I got something like 10 reels on film on one USB drive. easy and cheap.

          36. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            USB drives have security concerns. Some places like DoD and some private sector companies disable their USB ports to prevent the use of USB drives.

          37. LarrytheG Avatar

            yes.. but that’s because they can be used to take data so easily. Same thing with cell phones, right?

            For valid and legal delivery of data – where is the security concern?

          38. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            That’s one concern, but the other concern is that malware can be loaded on a USB stick and left in a parking lot where some dumb employee sees it and then plugs it in to see what’s on it.

            And if I submitted a FOIA request and they sent a USB stick, I’d tell them where to stick it and to send the data on a DVD-R instead. I’m not sticking some USB drive from who-knows-where into my PC.

          39. LarrytheG Avatar

            You can get malware on any media..no?

            So.. the DVD-R you can mount it and less worries than if you plug in a USB?

          40. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            That’s what the DoD thinks. They have no problem with using DVD-R to store data, but forget about using a USB drive.

            Also, USB drives are electronic devices and in theory a defective one could damage the PC it’s plugged into. They even make “USB killers” intentionally designed to destroy whatever they are plugged into.

            Imagine sending a FOIA request and some disgruntled government employee sends you a “USB killer” instead of a USB drive…

          41. LarrytheG Avatar

            well, you have an isolated unit to screen such things I would imagine…. never ever put something on your operational system from external sources before vetting it.

            But even emails can have embedded bad stuff like ransomeware, right?

          42. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            Yes, emails can have bad stuff too.

            If the requested data is just some small files, they could be emailed. But if it’s gigabytes of data, I’d prefer it on a DVD-R or even a Blu-Ray (which can hold up to 25GB of data on a single disc).

          43. LarrytheG Avatar

            If you sent that media to a FOIA request… they’d have to go buy a machine to read?
            I bet that would piss off ….

          44. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            I think anyone sending a FOIA request that may result in gigabytes of data as a response ought to be prepared to have it come as a DVD and not a thumb drive.

          45. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            Yes, emails can have bad stuff too.

            If the requested data is just some small files, they could be emailed. But if it’s gigabytes of data, I’d prefer it on a DVD-R or even a Blu-Ray (which can hold up to 25GB of data on a single disc).

    2. Nancy Naive Avatar
      Nancy Naive

      Using CRISPR, encode it in DNA… Prohibitive cost?

      A base cost should be charged, and above that eaten by the State.

  4. Teddy007 Avatar

    The real costs are probably having legal counsel review every document along with privacy/communications personal to make sure a wide variety of data is not released because it’s privacy is protected by state or federal law.

    1. They can not charge for the legal review in Virginia.

      1. Teddy007 Avatar

        There is still a huge cost associated with doing it and the general counsel review is probably what takes so long.

  5. Stephen Haner Avatar
    Stephen Haner

    For four years every FOIA into that office that was not case-related crossed my desk, it was often me saying yea or nay, and when we provided information I usually found, compiled or reviewed it. It is impossible to judge the validity of the claim this will take 500 hours without actually seeing just what they asked for. I can tell you the requests are often ridiculous, frivolous and sometimes plain stupid. But I probably did spend 100 hours or more in that last year dealing with FOIA requests from the Mark Warner campaign as they fished for dirt for political use. Don’t think I charged for anything but the copies. Nothing we shared became a political issue, either!

  6. LarrytheG Avatar

    20K sounds a little steep to me and feels a little like an attempt to ward off the request.

    I think on one hand it’s just amazing that there is the FOIA “game” that must be played to get some kinds of info that ought to be easily available by default without a FOIA and this is one of them IMO.

    Ironic that it’s Va’s own AG office that is seeking to keep citizens from seeing a “problem” that has been asserted and needed to be investigated but the public cannot see it – at least not without 20K.

    1. Stephen Haner Avatar
      Stephen Haner

      Well, of course you do. You’re a partisan and will back any D partisan play. But in this case, the NAACP called the bluff and paid the money, so let’s see what turns up. As Dick points out, and as I can testify from experience, if all FOIA requests have to be honored the staff wouldn’t have time to do another thing week after week. When it was a valid request I provided answers or records. And I cooperated with the opposing campaign’s pestering because I didn’t want them boo-hooing to the media.

      Again, I haven’t seen their request and neither have you.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar

        My view has nothing to do with partisan but rather the rhyme or reason why the “price” differs so widely and seems to be determined by subjective and arbitrary standards and more often than not appears to be an attempt to block.

        I’d say that no matter whether the group including GOP and right wing groups.

        The FOIA “games” affect everyone.

        In terms of flippant , again, not real standards and in the eye of the beholder – the gate-keeper apparently.

        It’s hard to believe in the age that virtually everything is an electronic record that a FOIA “search” could not be done fairly quickly then some items excluded and _something_ given to the requestor fairly quickly.

        Many years ago, I encountered a similar “blocking” maneuver from VDOT about a proposed road – the info existed , was acknowledged but would cost $$$ to actually “produce” and it was a single document – a bound “study” that they said would have to be manually copied page by page even though there were multiple copies available.

        And nope, it had nothing to do with partisan politics at all. Had more to do with a controversial road pre Smart Scale that would never pass Smart Scale today.

        And you’re funny slinging that “partisan” thing around given your own proclivities…at times ;-).

  7. Dick,

    Thanks for your helpful piece on the NAACP FOIA request to the AG.

    Having been on both sides on FOIA issues, I’d add that the issues can be much more complicated than a first glance at this case might suggest.

    I started working as an Ass’t AG under Marshall Coleman (!) and got to watch as the State Water Control Board adapted to the – then new – Act. Their natural first reaction was, “These are our records. Why should we make a lot of effort to give them to some troublesome citizen.”

    The lawyers spent a lot of time telling them that this is a law, cough up the documents.

    At the worker bee level, the employees quickly learned how to handle ordinary requests, say, the Discharge Monitoring Reports for the Hopewell sewage treatment plant for the last 12 months: Make the copies; ship them off; get back to the work your boss expects you to do.

    At the other end of the spectrum, were the more complicated requests, often worded vaguely and/or very broadly. The agency learned to negotiate to find out specifically what the citizen wanted and to work around the complications, where that was possible.

    The really tough cases were the repeated demands for the same records, the requests for huge volumes of records, and the vague, “tell me everything about X,” demands.

    After I retired, I got to look at the process from the other end. There were some startling differences between agencies: Some State and many municipal agencies still hewed to the “my records, none of your business” viewpoint. Others were quick and business-like. None of them cared to have its dirty laundry hung out in public.

    As to the NAACP request to the AG: If the request is as sweeping as “records related to the establishment of the Election Integrity Unit, its expenditures and activities, and for records of documented cases of election fraud in Virginia,” it could require the lawyers involved to review their case files to pull out the nonprivileged documents. If so, I suspect that $20K might be an underestimate.

    Let’s hope that the request is not that broad or that the AG is talking with the NAACP about narrowing the request. The $20K demand suggests that those talks have failed or have not been had.

    That said: Keep up the Good Work, Dick! Your knowledgeable, thoughtful reports in The Rebellion are teaching instruments that illuminate the inner workings of the Virginia government.

    1. LarrytheG Avatar

      I think Cranky makes reasonable comments here – “both sides”.

      But he also points out the really arbitrary nature of the different agencies in how they respond. Each one has essentially their own FOIA policy and some are pretty “creative” about it.

      re: ” Discharge Monitoring Reports for the Hopewell sewage treatment plant for the last 12 months: ”

      why is some of this stuff not automatically available via a website in the first place?

      And the problem with the AG is that unit was created with IMO partisan overtones ironically on the issue of transparency itself. It should have been a MODEL of how it should be done – not another SILO with a drawbridge.

      1. Nancy Naive Avatar
        Nancy Naive

        Steve would banish them for they lack a real name.

        Remeber that Steve when you read this!

        1. LarrytheG Avatar

          Oh you’re right. COWARD!

  8. Nancy Naive Avatar
    Nancy Naive

    Hey! It’s the AG’s office and lawyers have what is known as “billable hours”. If a lawyer’s life expectancy were measured by billable hours, not a one would live past 36.

    “But doctor I can’t be dying, I’m only 36.”
    “According to your billable hours, you’re 103.”

    1. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
      Dick Hall-Sizemore

      I was rebuffed with the “governor’s confidential papers” argument also. My reply was that the records that I was requesting had been routinely available to me in my position before I retired and the Governor never saw them. I also knew that those records had been shared with legislative staff as well. I got the records.

      My point is that an ordinary citizen, who, unlike me, did not know how the records were actually used, would have been dissuaded from obtaining the records.

  9. I agree, $20,000 does sound like a gargantuan number just to gain access to public documents. In my own FOIA requests for this blog — asking for specific, narrowly focused records from the University of Virginia and the Virginia Military Institute — I have been charged hundreds of dollars, and more than $1,000 in one instance. So, the sum the AG’s office charged the NAACP does not sound unusual, especially given the scope of the request. The charges have been large enough to dissuade me from following through on a couple of requests. I have to wonder if some agencies use the charges as a tool to blow people off.

  10. Nancy Naive Avatar
    Nancy Naive

    It would probably be better if ALL State documents had a drop-dead date after which they had to be online and publicly available unless excepted for specific reasons. If excepted, a title and synopsis should be online.

    Added bonus — it forces organization.

    1. how_it_works Avatar
      how_it_works

      If it’s one thing Virginia could use a little more of, it’s organization.

  11. DJRippert Avatar

    In any other arena the records would be automatically moved to a data warehouse / lake house which the public could access at their will. Somewhat like VPAP. Of course, this would really open the floodgates to public scrutiny and one thing Gub’mint doesn’t want is public access of public records. And, of course, a cross-government initiative like that would require a technology executive at a level above the departments. You know, like the Secretary of Technology that Northam eliminated.

    1. LarrytheG Avatar

      every heard of this guy: Waldo Jaquith

      He wrote Richmond Sunlight and Virginia Decoded

      you might like him but pretty sure he’s
      a liberal:

      https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/46e0be057d21a2dfa796dc1ab7fda0ec3ae79c971805e2e008f65d25a83dec28.jpg

      https://beeckcenter.georgetown.edu/waldo-jaquith/

      1. DJRippert Avatar

        I remember Waldo. He used to write a blog that I read. Forget the name but it was a good blog.

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