Stuck in a Snowstorm: Better to Have a Gas- or Electric-Powered Car?

Here’s what Interstate 95 looked like near Fredericksburg yesterday. Both northbound and southbound sections were closed due to snow and ice. Photo credit; Virginia Department of Transportation via the Associated Press

by James A. Bacon

Hundreds of motorists were stranded on Interstate 95 in freezing temperatures last night after two tractor-trailers jackknifed in a snowstorm and triggered a chain reaction as other vehicles lost control. Both lanes of the Interstate were closed. As night fell, reports the Associated Press, motorists posted messages on social media about running out of fuel, food, and water. Senator Tim Kaine, who was commuting between his residence in Richmond and the Capitol, said he was stuck in his car for 21 hours.

NBC News correspondent Josh Lederman, who spoke on NBC’s “Today” show by video feed from his car, had this observation: “You really start to think if there was a medical emergency, someone that was out of gas and out of heat — you know it’s 26 degrees, and there’s no way that anybody can get to you in this situation.”

People can live without food and, for a time, without water. If worse comes to worse, they can pee on the side of the road. But the potential killer is hypothermia. The AP account tells of one motorist who stopped his car engine at least 30 times to conserve gas and run the heat just enough to stay warm.

I’m wondering how many of the stranded cars were electric vehicles and what happened to them.

Here’s a problem with current battery technology: the colder the outside temperature, the faster lithium ion batteries lose power. According to Green Car Future, a pro-EV website, the Tesla Model S owner’s manual comes with this warning: “In cold weather, some of the stored energy in the Battery may not be available on your drive because the battery is too cold.”

Here’s a related problem: electric vehicles’ heating systems rely upon resistance heaters, which require great amounts of electrical energy. As Green Car Future notes, “Right at the times you will need that burst of energy … your battery power is being obstructed by the cold conditions.”

The nightmare scenario, not considered in the Green Car Future blog post, is getting stuck for hours… in the freezing cold… relying upon an electric battery to generate resistance heat. Obviously, gasoline-powered cars, which capture heat from passing air over the running motor, can run out of fuel, too. Here’s my question: How long would a fully-charged EV battery have lasted in last night’s I-95 scenario compared to a car with a full gas tank?

According to Internet sources of unknown reliability, older cars can idle (and generate heat, presumably) for as long as 52 hours on a full tank. Newer cars can go less than 12 hours.

Green Car Future says that Hyundai and Kia are working on EV vehicles that rely upon more energy-efficient heat pumps to warm drivers and their passengers. The heat pumps use only 50% of the electricity of the resistance heaters. Moral of the story: if there’s any chance you might find yourself stranded in the freezing cold for hours on end, you’d better be driving a Hyundai Ionic Electric with a heat pump.

Personally, I’d take my chances with a gas-powered car.

Update: Washington Post columnist Charles Lane addresses this very topic… and reaches similar conclusions.


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71 responses to “Stuck in a Snowstorm: Better to Have a Gas- or Electric-Powered Car?”

  1. tmtfairfax Avatar
    tmtfairfax

    And how fast were the trucks that jackknifed going?

    Gee, batteries in cold weather don’t have as much power as when they were warm. Old news for anyone who grew up in the Midwest.

    1. YellowstoneBound1948 Avatar
      YellowstoneBound1948

      Cold crank amps!

    2. YellowstoneBound1948 Avatar
      YellowstoneBound1948

      One can easily imagine. Are you following the saga of the young driver who got 120 years for killing four people on I-70 west of Denver? He bypassed three runaway ramps. The Colorado governor has reduced his sentence to 10 years. He’ll be out in 2 or 3.

  2. Troublemaker Avatar
    Troublemaker

    Simply take a bucket and walk to the nearest charging station to fill the bucket with electrons 🙂

    1. Nancy Naive Avatar
      Nancy Naive

      Don’t be silly. Buckets hold bits, not electrons.

      1. Troublemaker Avatar
        Troublemaker

        Being silly is my job!

  3. Eric the half a troll Avatar
    Eric the half a troll

    Carbon monoxide poisoning or hypothermia… pick your “poison”…. The real lesson is ALWAYS be ready for an emergency when you hit the road (especially in bad weather). A down parka, a couple blankets, some extra water and energy bars will go a lot further to saving you than what car you are driving. Think ahead…

    1. YellowstoneBound1948 Avatar
      YellowstoneBound1948

      And never, repeat, never, “eat” snow. You will lower your body temp. Very dangerous. And, if running the engine, always ream the exhaust pipes first. Keep them well clear of snow, etc.

      1. Eric the half a troll Avatar
        Eric the half a troll

        Especially the yellow variety…

        1. Nancy Naive Avatar
          Nancy Naive

          Watch out where the huskies go…

          1. YellowstoneBound1948 Avatar
            YellowstoneBound1948

            The Battle of Perryville, Kentucky is known for its “acoustic shadow,” where residents of Louisville could hear the sound of cannon fire 75 miles away. Not as well known is the fact that the competing armies fought it out in 100-degree heat for more than 12 hours without water. And then someone wondered if mule “piss” (a legal term) was safe to drink. Oh, yeah. It is.

          2. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            There was a show on the History Channel discussing the war in Kentucky. The subject was the relatively few major battles in the state, although there were large numbers of combatants in the state for almost the entire war.

            Movement on both sides was inexplicably slow and circuitous.

            They showed maps where large armies passed one another by scant miles without engaging. There were skirmishes that quickly resolved. Armies bivouacked for long periods of time in inexplicable locations.

            All of this was baffling UNTIL they overlaid on the maps the locations of distilleries.

          3. YellowstoneBound1948 Avatar
            YellowstoneBound1948

            HaHaHa. That explains everything! That drive along the Bluegrass Parkway may take days, depending on how thirsty you are. Highly recommended!

            After Virginia (1st) and Tennessee (2nd), there were by comparison far fewer clashes, but several have earned notoriety. Take the Battle of Richmond, Kentucky, for example. That relatively “minor” engagement is still studied at West Point. The Confederate victory there was a masterpiece. So also was the Confederate victory at Brice’s Cross Roads, Mississippi. Both of these obscure battlefields are recommended if you are touring.

          4. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            Taking a break from the CW, just read an account of the USS Fletcher at the 3rd Battle of Savo Island. Lucky Fletch. Nov13, 1942, the 13th ship in the line, hull #445 (=13). At oh-dark-30, the Japanese lit the BG up and opened fire. The first 12 ships were all hit. Ship 14 and the Fletcher did hard to port to run to the shore for cover. A spread of torpedos went beneath the Fletcher taking out the 14th ship.

            After some time still heading for the islands, they noticed another ship on a parallel course to port. It was a Japanese heavy cruiser, gun trained on the Fletcher, but didn’t shoot. Probably unsure of how/if a US destroyer had wound next to them.

            The skipper ordered smoke, turned hard starboard in a 270 behind the smoke and ordered a torpedo attack. The weapons officer asked “How many of the 10 remaining?” The skip replied, “All of them. We’re not going to be around to use any left over.” Fired 10 from behind the smoke, and by the time they broke cover, the Japanese cruiser was on its back and going down.

          5. YellowstoneBound1948 Avatar
            YellowstoneBound1948

            Amazing story. I researched it to acquire additional info. The Lucky Fletch survived the War and earned 13 battle stars.

        2. YellowstoneBound1948 Avatar
          YellowstoneBound1948

          Now I’m wondering where my mother got all that snow she used to make ice cream back in the ’50’s. It sure was good, but maybe that was the vanilla extract, the only other ingredient in the mix.

    2. energyNOW_Fan Avatar
      energyNOW_Fan

      The cat converters destroy most of CO, try again?

      1. Nancy Naive Avatar
        Nancy Naive

        Don’t park on dry leaves.

      2. Eric the half a troll Avatar
        Eric the half a troll

        https://people.com/celebrity/mom-infant-son-killed-by-carbon-monoxide-from-snow-stuck-in-tailpipe/

        The NHTSA says: “To avoid carbon monoxide poisoning when stuck in snow, be sure to keep your vehicle’s exhaust pipe clear of snow and ice, run your vehicle only in the open with the windows partially down, and run it only long enough to keep warm.”

        1. how_it_works Avatar
          how_it_works

          They have to account for all the ****boxes on the road. Such precautions aren’t really necessary for anything in reasonable condition.

    3. Nancy Naive Avatar
      Nancy Naive

      One of the reporters caught in the mess reported that two people in the car in front of his got out to change drivers wearing flip flops.

      1. Eric the half a troll Avatar
        Eric the half a troll

        Good God… smh…

      2. Rob Austin Avatar
        Rob Austin

        Darwin Award finalists, for sure.

        1. Merchantseamen Avatar
          Merchantseamen

          I saw one the other day. Tank top, shorts and flip flops. Old enough to know better. But…he may have been a UVA graduate, that would explain it all.

  4. paulbrookspe Avatar
    paulbrookspe

    Horse and buggy would have been even better……….

    1. Nancy Naive Avatar
      Nancy Naive

      Not better, but definitely faster.

  5. James Wyatt Whitehead Avatar
    James Wyatt Whitehead

    That storm came from nowhere. I can only imagine how tough of night it must have been for those stranded. This looked like a good job for the National Guard. Maybe help some people. Northam has them on standby. What is waiting for? Must we endure yet another Ralph Northam moon walk? 248 hours until January 15th.
    https://thebulwark.com/app/uploads/2019/02/Dumpsterfire.gif

    1. Nancy Naive Avatar
      Nancy Naive

      From nowhere… and with just 2 days warning.

    2. Another example of global warming destroying humanity

    3. Stephen Haner Avatar
      Stephen Haner

      I’m in TEXAS and saw plenty of warnings about the storm, communicated with the kids back in Richmond….

      1. energyNOW_Fan Avatar
        energyNOW_Fan

        I did not hear much on my normal stations until Sunday AM. I knew there was cold Monday with a chance freezing precip overnight but it was supposed to warm up to the 30’s by morn. Of course we were on the northern side but we ended up 8-inches or so..

  6. Nancy Naive Avatar
    Nancy Naive

    There are 100s of two-lane blacktop roads that can get you there with scenery, multitudes of turn arounds, and more importantly restaurants, taverns, and restrooms. Give up the Interstates and live.

    1. how_it_works Avatar
      how_it_works

      With no shoulders and lots of hills and curves, and pavement that is likely 2-3 years past it’s life.

      1. Nancy Naive Avatar
        Nancy Naive

        Now you’re talking!

        1. how_it_works Avatar
          how_it_works

          or walking if you blow a tire in one of these new vehicles with no spare.

          1. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            If you never get on an Interstate, you will never replace your windshield. The are far more tire-killers up there too.

          2. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            Never had a tire blow on the interstate. One wrong move on the 2-lane roads with no shoulder and you’re stuck in a ditch with a blown tire. One of them has a 2-3 foot drop off right next to the pavement. They also tend to be dead last to get potholes fixed.

          3. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            LOL. They should put some orange cones around that. Wouldn’t want someone crashing into the beer!

      2. Russell Casey Avatar
        Russell Casey

        learn to drive properly.

        1. how_it_works Avatar
          how_it_works

          I do, I’m not from Virginia.

          I didn’t feel the need to buy an AWD Subaru for the safety features.

    2. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
      Dick Hall-Sizemore

      When driving back from visiting the Grandkids in Northern Viriginia, I usually get off I-95 at the Thornburg exit south of Fredericksburg and take Rt. 1 the rest of the way to Richmond. Much more scenic and relaxing drive.

      1. James Wyatt Whitehead Avatar
        James Wyatt Whitehead

        Take Highway 2 next time. Nobody knows about it still. Between New Post and Hanover Court House just 3 lights. That road is straighter than a preacher too. George Washington used it frequently. Number 2 highway is officially the Washington Burgess Route and the Washington Rochambeau Route.
        https://www.hmdb.org/results.asp?Search=Series&SeriesID=643
        https://www.nps.gov/waro/learn/news/upload/WARO-brochure-both-sides-2.pdf

      2. Nancy Naive Avatar
        Nancy Naive

        Next time, stop at that little roadhouse you’ve driven past a dozen times and find a new favorite eatery… who knows, maybe they’ve a microbrewery out back too. Try lunch first. No point testing some places after dark.

  7. Nancy Naive Avatar
    Nancy Naive

    Wow! 24 hours creepy-crawling on I-95 between DC and Ashland! Meh, that’s only 3x longer than usual.

  8. Nancy Naive Avatar
    Nancy Naive

    James Bacon!! Wake up! Northam issues Absolute Pardon!

  9. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/02b0bfd1593c06f0cf3f821632b249336e87339e2eacb7c088c90060ea36378e.jpg Governor Northam was in New York for Fashion Week while Virginia commuters were stranded all night on I-95.

    1. John Martin Avatar
      John Martin

      I heard that by the time they could have been ready, they wouldn’t be needed. I-95 is clear, crisis is over.No one predicted the storm’s intensity.

  10. DJRippert Avatar
    DJRippert

    Better to have a gas or electric car? Better to have a new governor. Northam claimed he had the National Guard at his disposal but never deployed them. Instead, the half-wit ordered “warming stations”.

    That fool can’t be gone fast enough.

    1. Nancy Naive Avatar
      Nancy Naive

      Deploy in, what, 6 hrs? It’s the VaNG, not Delta Force. At least they’re vaccinated.

    2. Nancy Naive Avatar
      Nancy Naive

      Deploy in, what, 6 hrs? It’s the VaNG, not Delta Force. At least they’re vaccinated.

  11. Stephen Haner Avatar
    Stephen Haner

    It is a religion, Jim. Rational discussion won’t change any minds among the True Believers. The Internal Combustion Engine is the Devil’s Own Tool. They are still predicting the End of Snow!

    I mean, you will never see this in the media today, despite it being drawn from the government’s satellites:
    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2022/01/03/uah-global-temperature-update-for-december-2021-0-21-deg-c/

    The 9-year pause: https://wattsupwiththat.com/2022/01/03/no-statistically-significant-global-warming-for-9-years-3-months/

    Eric is right about how one should prepare if one is foolish enough or unfortunate enough to be traveling on a night like that….and after a couple of hours, with either kind of car you are futzed…

  12. The Amazing Criswell Avatar
    The Amazing Criswell

    Hundreds of motorists were trapped? I would bet it was thousands and thousands of motorists stranded.

  13. energyNOW_Fan Avatar
    energyNOW_Fan

    I believe many of the plug-in hybrids (eg; Toyota’s) and EV’s go with heat pumps to conserve batteries. Die hard plug -in users minimize use of the heat/AC to maximize miles driven.

    Also the implication when we hear how efficient electric cars are, we are NOT hearing real world energy-use numbers, using heat in the winter/AC in summer etc. Gasoline/hybrid cars have no place to hide re: energy use, everything is public re: real world MPG on sites like Fuelly.com. Electric cars boast impressive miles per kWhr on paper for the ideal case, but we do not have access to real world numbers of electrons used (Elon could tell us for Tesla, but it’s a secret).

    Here is a recent article that ticks off EV-advocates, talking about real world:
    https://www.andersoneconomicgroup.com/real-world-electric-vehicle-fueling-costs-may-surprise-new-ev-drivers/

    1. how_it_works Avatar
      how_it_works

      Some plug-in hybrids, maybe most, run the gas engine for heat if the electric heater cannot keep up.

    2. Nancy Naive Avatar
      Nancy Naive

      Don’t know about heating and cooling a car cabin, but the cold plate on my boat’s refrigerator- freezer runs at -4 degrees F for 5 Amps at 12.7 volts.

  14. Nancy Naive Avatar
    Nancy Naive

    I have 3 worst drives on I-95.
    The insecticide spill where I spent 7 hours trying to get from Woodbridge to the Rte. 17 South exit in Fredericksburg.
    July 4th 1981 when it took 6 hours to make it from Wilson Bridge to Fredericksburg.
    And Easter Thursday 1993. Five hours to go from the I-495 to Woodbridge. The 2nd busiest travel day of the year and VDOT shutdown two lanes while they painted lines.

    Rte. 17 to US301 to US50 is a surefire 3.5 hours to Annapolis, 4 to Baltimore. EVERY TIME! Waldorf sucks, but can’t nhave everything.

    1. energyNOW_Fan Avatar
      energyNOW_Fan

      Ouch missed that insecticide one…do you think it affected you? just kidding : )

      1. Nancy Naive Avatar
        Nancy Naive

        It’s the one that ticks me off at the MSM. Happened at 2AM on the same day as the London Underground bombings. Yes, the bombings were horrible, but a 6-lane highway that accommodates 200,000 cars daily got cut for days and 8 hours after it happened not one word on any major broadcast or cable news network.

  15. Michael Avatar

    With EVs, how about using the seat warmers to warm the body and not massive amounts of air? An ice engine needs the engine running to keep up with electric seat heating. Also maybe carry cold weather clothing/blankets in vehicle during the winter would be helpful. Could also turn any air heating down to a surviving temp.. not a Florida heat. It would use far less energy than turning the heat down in an ICE car with an engine running to create heat that is used or not used.. I’d venture to say holding tight to the idea of ice engines to stay warm is more about familiarity to convenience than understanding efficient energy usage and insulation materials.

  16. Nancy Naive Avatar
    Nancy Naive

    Once I-95 became a parking lot, it became the best parking lot. What else could be done? Are you going to fill up every WalMart, Ikea, Food Lion parking lot in nova?

  17. This writer doesn’t know squat. He mentions that some manufacturers are developing EVs with heat pumps, but ignores the fact that Tesla ALREADY has heat pumps in all their new cars. You can also run the heated seats on much less energy –that’s what I prefer anyway in the winter.

  18. “Green Car Future says that Hyundai and Kia are working on EV vehicles that rely upon more energy-efficient heat pumps to warm drivers and their passengers. The heat pumps use only 50% of the electricity of the resistance heaters.”

    Not exactly. More efficient by 50% on average, yes; more efficient in a snow storm, no!

    The physics: A heat pump works by extracting heat from the environment (usually, ambient air). If the outside air is 50 deg, the refrigerant in the heat pump starts at 50 deg., then gets compressed, raising its temperature as it is pumped inside to the car’s heater. It’s fairly easy to compress the refrigerant enough to get it to, say, 75 degrees (a 25 degree increase). It takes lots less electricity to run the compressor than to extract the same heat from a resistance heater. BUT: if the outside air is 25F, you’ve got to compress the refrigerant twice as much to raise it to 75 deg (a 50 degree increase). There is a cross-over temperature below which the compressor would consume more electricity raising the refrigerant’s temperature to 75 than simple resistance heating consumes to do the same job; that cross-over point is around 35 degrees for most heat pump designs.

    The consequence: Stuck in a snowstorm after dark? It’s probably in the 20s out there. That’s significantly below the cross-over point for any ambient air heat pump. So, even if the car you’re stuck in has a heat pump, it will be using 100% resistance electric heat, not refrigerant compression, to warm the car’s interior.

    So, Jim, you say, “Moral of the story: if there’s any chance you might find yourself stranded in the freezing cold for hours on end, you’d better be driving a Hyundai Ionic Electric with a heat pump.” No — if it’s really ‘freezing cold’ outside, that fancy heat pump feature is nothing but extra weight under the hood.

    1. Bender Jay Rodriguez Avatar
      Bender Jay Rodriguez

      AND THIS:

      According to David Howey, associate professor in engineering science at the University of Oxford’s Department of Engineering Science, “Electric vehicles use very little power when stationary. The motor doesn’t consume power at zero speed. Only the car electronics and heating/cooling systems use power when the car is stationary, and the amounts are relatively small. A typical stationary electric vehicle (EV) with full battery could likely run its climate settings and electronics for at least a day, probably many days”

      https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-environment-ev/fact-check-electric-cars-not-more-likely-to-get-stuck-in-traffic-jams-idUSL1N2RW0QD

  19. Bender Jay Rodriguez Avatar
    Bender Jay Rodriguez

    Nearly all newer EVs have heat-pumps for cabin heat, which means, in the main, this article was obsolete the second it was written.

  20. Ya momma Avatar

    Wow ignorance is bliss. Carbon monoxide is a thing … and everyone who ran out of anything was gas powered. An ev owner I know only lost 13 percent in 16 hours.
    You by far are why people doubt journalists. You didn’t do your research and it shows. I’m prob half your age and have more common sense to dig deeper. Typical trumpers

  21. Great points and inclusion of Green Car Future. Would be interesting to see where hydrogen falls on the list?

    https://www.greencarfuture.com/category/hydrogen

    Many opinions seem to weigh in on h2; it’ll be mainstream in a few years…

  22. Pasttense Avatar

    Snowstorm in VA? Fake news, Al Gore assured me 15 years ago no more snow by 2015.

  23. You should update this article again with a correction. Most electric vehicles will last just as long or longer than an internal combustion engine.

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