Social Theory vs. Science in K-12 Discipline in Virginia – Fraud or Just Wrong?

Both fraudulent and wrong?

by James C. Sherlock

American school children have in my lifetime been the subject of widespread experiments in theory disguised as breakthroughs in education.

Consider the “new math” and the “reading wars” as prominent examples.

Now we have social theory on school discipline created by federal civil rights lawyers piggybacking on what may or may not prove to be successful academic practices for children with disabilities. That social theory has been promulgated as state policy guidance in Virginia.

A Multi-tiered System of Supports (MTSS) has been used successfully in some instances to help teach academics to the learning-disabled.

This system was extended by lawyers from the aspirational left to school discipline and social-emotional learning without evidence. Now it has been published by the Virginia Board of Education for use by every school division in Virginia as a potential cure for “systemic racism” in discipline.

The 2021 Model Guidance for Positive, Preventative Code of Student Conduct Policy and Alternatives to Suspension (Virginia Model Guidance) may be fraudulently referenced. It is certainly incompletely referenced.

The methodology it recommends has been proven not to work. And it even has been shown in an extended government study in Oregon to disadvantage Black children.

The Board of Education should consider withdrawing the document. The 56 Virginia school divisions using MTSS for discipline may wish to reconsider.

Virginia school divisions using VTSS.  Courtesy VCU

Strong statements. So get a cup of coffee or an adult beverage and sit back while I set out to prove them.

MTSS/VTSS. For most of its life in schools, MTSS referred to tiered systems of supports that address academics.

Some states use the term RTI to refer to tiered supports that address academics only, whereas other states use the term RTI or the term MTSS to refer to an integrated system of supports that addresses both academics and behavior

RTI was a term used to describe a system of supports for academics for children with learning disabilities. Still is. RTI in 2018 was critiqued negatively as an unproven nationwide fad.

RTI remains ill-defined, falls far short of its evidence-based practice goal, is almost invariably misused, and often results in more harm than good. Nevertheless, as a conceptual framework RTI has great potential for ensuring that students with disabilities receive appropriate, evidence-based instruction.

Let’s say that MTSS/RTI might be proven to work for academic support to children with learning disabilities. It is its application to disciplinary procedures that is in question here.

The Institute of Education Sciences (IES) was created in 2002 by the Education Sciences Reform Act (ESRA), itself a reaction by a Congress dismayed by experimentation on students nationwide by the widespread adoption of unproven educational theory.

The mission of the Institute is to provide national leadership in expanding fundamental knowledge and understanding of education from early childhood through post-secondary study, in order to provide parents, educators, students, researchers, policymakers, and the general public with reliable information about

(A) the condition and progress of education in the United States, including early childhood education;
(B) educational practices that support learning and improve academic achievement and access to educational opportunities for all students; and
(C) the effectiveness of Federal and other education programs.

IES is the statistics, research, and evaluation arm of the U.S. Department of Education. It is independent and non-partisan. Its budget exceeds $650 million annually.

The mission is to provide scientific evidence on which to ground education practice and policy and to share this information in formats that are useful and accessible to educators, parents, policymakers, researchers, and the public. One format for that work is the What Works Clearinghouse publications.

The IES Standards and Review Office oversees peer review of those reports.

IES, as far as I can tell by reading its products, applies the scientific method to all of its work.

It conducts careful observations, applies rigorous skepticism about what is observed, and requires statistical proof of reproducible positive outcomes before recommending anything.

Pretty much as Congress and the nation had hoped.

Virginia Model Guidance. The Virginia Board of Education adopted MTSS in June 2021 as 2021 Model Guidance for Positive, Preventative Code of Student Conduct Policy and Alternatives to Suspension (Virginia Model Guidance). Here, MTSS is renamed Virginia Tiered System of Supports (VTSS).

VTSS grafts multi-level behavior and social-emotional supports onto the more mature and well-studied multi-level supports for academics.

Make sure when reading the Introduction and Background to go to the “2021 revision of this document” for the major changes made to the 2017 edition. Those are the ones at issue here.

Note there that Virginia law § 22.1-279.1:1. The use of seclusion and restraint in public schools; Board of Education regulations, requires Board of Education regulations to be consistent with the Fifteen Principles contained in the U.S. Department of Education’s Restraint and Seclusion: Resource Document and Guidelines for the Development of Policies and Procedures for Managing Student Behavior in Emergency Situations. Those references can be honored whether VTSS is maintained or discarded.

Government reports cited. Of the DOE evidence that Virginia Model Guidance did cite, the Department itself had already rejected the two primary cited documents at the time they were referenced by the panel which drafted that document. It posted prominent warnings about that withdrawal.

The original federal backing behind MTSS as a disciplinary approach came from the Civil Rights Divisions of the Department of Education (DOE) and the Justice Department.

In January 2014, a “Dear Colleague” letter was issued by Arne Duncan, President Obama’s Secretary of Education, as a foreword to Guiding Principles A Resource Guide for Improving School Climate and Discipline (Guiding Principles). It quoted statistics on disproportional expulsion and suspension of minorities, but only speculated that MTSS would be an effective solution that also would create safer schools with better learning environments for all students.

Secretary Duncan cited:

three guiding principles that are grounded in our work (author’s note: this written by civil rights lawyers) with a wide variety of high-achieving and safe schools, emerging research, and consultation with experts in the field. (emphasis added)

In other words, the MTSS principles applied to school discipline were social theory devised by lawyers dressed up as educational theory.

IES under the Obama, Trump and Biden administrations has never supported Guiding Principles. The Trump administration DOE withdrew it in 2017 and the Biden administration has failed to reinstate it.

This was downloaded Sunday, July 31 2022 about Guiding Principles:

UNDER REVIEW. This document and the underlying issues are under review by the U.S. Department of Education and the U.S. Department of Justice (as of August 30, 2021). The December 21, 2018 Dear Colleague Letter that rescinded this document is also under review. The Department of Education’s Office for Civil Rights published a Request for Information soliciting written comments from the public regarding the administration of school discipline in schools serving students in pre-K through grade 12. OCR and the Civil Rights Division of the Department of Justice are committed to ensuring that all students are able to learn and thrive in a safe and non-discriminatory environment. Please note that this notation does not have the effect of reinstating this guidance. (emphasis added).

The exact same warning is posted for Directory of Federal School Climate and Discipline Resources, another Virginia Model Guidance reference.

Yet Virginia Model Guidance declares:

Virginia Tiered Systems of Supports (VTSS), grounded in the research of national models for Multi-Tiered System of Supports (MTSS), is a data-driven decision-making framework for establishing the academicbehavioral, and social-emotional supports needed for a school to be an effective learning environment for all students.

That document uses as references federal DOE documents that the authors either knew or should have known:

  • had been withdrawn by DOE; and
  • did not support MTSS use for discipline;
  • or both.

Government reports not cited.Virginia Model Guidance did not reference three documents from the DOE Institute of Education Sciences (IES) that not only chose not to recommend MTSS as a scientifically proven approach to discipline (Reducing Behavior Problems in the Elementary School Classroom, 2008), but also warned that there is no useable outcomes data on MTSS as a disciplinary approach and then later that there are no tools widely adopted by the states to even collect such data.

So they ignored those documents.

In December 2016, the IES What Works Clearinghouse (WWC) in Functional Behavioral Assessment-based Interventions identified 17 studies of Functional behavioral assessment (FBA)-based interventions that both fell within the scope of the Children Identified With or At Risk for an Emotional Disturbance topic area and met WWC pilot single-case design standards. Together, the single-case design studies included only 39 children between 5 and 18 years old who were identified with or at risk for an emotional disturbance. No studies met WWC group design standards two years after Guiding Principles was issued.

The authors of Virginia Model Guidance had reason to know that data on violence in schools reported in 2019 by IES in Crime, Violence, Discipline, and Safety in U.S. Public Schools Findings From the School Survey on Crime and Safety: 2017–18 showed that 60% of the violent incidents in schools in 2017-18 were in schools with more than 50% minority enrollment.

And that among those schools, half reported involving students in restorative circles, a core methodology of MTSS discipline.

The authors failed to reference it.

They did not cite Improving MTSS/RTI Implementation Through Measurement published by IES in March of 2020. Possibly because that report wrote:

Without measuring implementation, we don’t know if these investments are benefiting students.

How can educators and policymakers know if schools are implementing an MTSS/RTI framework as intended? Collecting data using an implementation assessment tool is one approach.

So, not only has the IES been unable to find scientific studies that prove MTSS effectiveness as a disciplinary approach, they had before Virginia Model Guidance was written warned separately that there was no useable data to evaluate MTSS and then that there were no tools widely adopted by the states to even collect such data.

There was even an IES study published in February of 2021 of Oregon MTSS implementation that showed MTSS did not help Black children escape exclusionary discipline, which was an Oregon law’s objective.

IES, at the request of the state of Oregon, reported in February of 2021 that MTSS for discipline in use there since 2016 not only did not help Black students, it actually worked in reverse.

At the request of Oregon education leaders, the REL Northwest examined data from a voluntary sample of 401 schools in Oregon to determine whether the 2015 policy reform was associated with changes in the use of exclusionary and nonexclusionary discipline for K-5 students who were referred to the school office for disciplinary reasons. The study found that after the 2015 policy reform, office discipline referrals became significantly less likely to result in exclusionary discipline, and therefore more likely to result in nonexclusionary discipline, than before the reform for most student racial/ethnic groups. However, for Black students the opposite was true. Office discipline referrals issued to Black students became more likely to result in exclusionary discipline, and therefore less likely to result in non-exclusionary discipline. (Emphasis added)

Fraud Assessment

. Virginia Model Guidance was published by VDOE in June of 2021.

It ignored reports by IES that questioned and indeed disproved the Virginia Model Guidance narrative. That can be explained by incompetence; but it proved convenient to the narrative.

But Model Guidance cited as evidence federal documents that had already been withdrawn when cited. Incompetence cannot explain the false references.

Newly completed work. The federal Institute of Education Sciences (IES) paid Harvard almost $24 million for a multi-year study Impact Evaluation of Training in Multi-Tiered Systems of Support for Behavior reported on in July of this year:

Students’ early problem behaviors in school can be disruptive and even hinder their learning and long-term success. To prevent these incidences, schools across the country report adopting multi-tiered systems of support for behavior (MTSS-B). (emphasis added)

Design
For this study of effectiveness, 89 elementary schools were randomly selected either to participate in the training program or to continue with their usual strategies for supporting student behavior.

Research Questions

What are the impacts on student behavior and achievement for all students? What are these impacts for struggling students?

What are schools’ MTSS-B implementation experiences? And, is any variation in impacts related to variation in these experiences?

It reported Key Findings :

the MTSS-B program was no better than schools’ usual strategy for students overall. (emphasis in original report) The program did not improve the disruptive behavior, any other student behaviors, or the achievement of students overall. (emphasis added)

The study itself reported a spotlight effect with the additional resources it brought with it.

  • It did help the 15 percent of students identified at the outset of the study as struggling most with behavior. But those improvements went away after the program’s training and assistance had ended.
  • Similarly, the program led to greater use of all classroom management practices measured and, consistent with these improvements, teachers were observed to have better control of their classrooms and fewer student disruptions.

Ongoing IES assessment.

 IES is working on an extensive study Research Networks Focused on Critical Problems of Policy and Practice in Special Education: Multi-Tiered Systems of Support.

The goal of this project is to build and optimize an adaptive intervention within a multi-tiered system of supports (MTSS) model to improve elementary school students’ academic and behavior outcomes.

Years 1 and 2 will focus on reading and behavior interventions, with follow-up data collection each subsequent year. Years 3 and 4 will focus on math and behavior interventions, with follow-up assessment each subsequent year. Year 5 will include the final follow-up data collection for the math cohort as well as dissemination activities.

Year 5 is 2023.

Bottom line. What Virginia Model Guidance does not say is that MTSS is complex. It does not say that without correct implementation and evaluation, schools struggle to do it well and students can be negatively impacted in the process.

Issues

  • Virginia Model Guidance is at best unprofessional.  Virginians have a right to expect far better.  It may be fraudulently referenced; it is certainly incompletely referenced, telling only one side of a complex story;
  • The methodology recommended is disproven by research; and
  • MTSS has been shown to have acted to the actual detriment of Black kids while in use to guide school discipline in Oregon.

Action.

I recommend Virginia Model Guidance be withdrawn by the Board of Education.

I will report the potential fraud to the Inspector General for investigation.

The 56 Virginia school divisions already using MTSS for discipline may wish to reconsider based on the scientific evidence of its failure.

The VDOE VTSS leadership team and the management of the VCU VTSS website maintained for VDOE may wish to consider the same evidence.

The Virginia Department of Education and Board of Education do not and never will have the resources of IES. I recommend a careful study of IES reports before publication of any state education policy.

Then prescribe as guidance what is proven to work.


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Comments

72 responses to “Social Theory vs. Science in K-12 Discipline in Virginia – Fraud or Just Wrong?”

  1. Nancy Naive Avatar
    Nancy Naive

    From Oregon:
    “The study found that after the 2015 policy reform, office discipline referrals became significantly less likely to result in exclusionary discipline, and therefore more likely to result in nonexclusionary discipline, than before the reform for most student racial/ethnic groups. However, for Black students the opposite was true. Office discipline referrals issued to Black students became more likely to result in exclusionary discipline, and therefore less likely to result in nonexclusionary discipline.”

    Tough to overcome that nonexistent systemic racism.

    1. James C. Sherlock Avatar
      James C. Sherlock

      Thanks for reading my work. I am serious about that.

      My article across the board and the Oregon report as one instance points out that MTSS does not work. I thought it worth the effort to expose that, since it requires a lot of extra staff activity and in some places in Virginia, as has been reported here before, VTSS approach to discipline is resulting in chaos. Including Virginia Beach.

      The IES was put in place by Congress to do exactly what it has been doing, sorting out theory from what works. As I wrote, they use a scientific method to accomplish that. When I started all of the work it took to complete this article, I though I would find an IES example of how MTSS has been successful in some state. I was surprised that I did not. As I pointed out, IES has a very extensive study going on that will report out in 2023.

  2. Nancy Naive Avatar
    Nancy Naive

    Why is this a big deal to you?

    The 2008 document they chose to ignore, Reducing Behavior Problems in the Elementary School Classroom states on the title page:

    “The opinions and positions expressed in this practice guide are the authors’ and do not necessarily represent the opinions and Department of Education. This practice guide should be reviewed and applied according to the specic needs of the educators and education agency using it, and with full realization that it represents the judgments of the review panel regarding what constitutes sensible practice, based on the research that was available at the time of publication. This practice guide should be used as a tool to assist in decisionmaking rather than as a “cookbook.” Any references within the document to specic education products are illustrative and do not imply endorsement of these products to the exclusion of other products that are not referenced.”

    I should think the first sentence gives good reason to choose to ignore it, or not use it. Moreover, the What Works Clearinghouse rates its application in 5 specific areas as having “Moderate Evidence” and usefulness as “Promising”.

    https://ies.ed.gov/ncee/wwc/practiceguide/4

    Hardly biblical endorsement.

    1. James C. Sherlock Avatar
      James C. Sherlock

      The first sentence is standard. The guide is published by IES. It is a big deal because their standards are very high in all of their published work. Everything they publish has passed very rigorous screens for what works. They literally sort the wheat from the chaff.

      1. Nancy Naive Avatar
        Nancy Naive

        Oh good. Then read past the first sentence and read the IES evaluation sheet. Basically, they needn’t use it.

        1. James C. Sherlock Avatar
          James C. Sherlock

          The IES evaluation sheet is the point of that agency. They don’t cheerlead for anything they study. That is the value.

          1. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            Neither, apparently, do they condemn.

      2. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        Sherlock has an interesting perspective of the Federal Education function. Most Conservatives have a low opinion of it an more than a few argue that it is actually interfering with the States “right” to do Education. Indeed, given SCOTUS other rulings on what the Federal Govt is empowered to do in the Constitution … this is another one that is not.

        Further, Sherlock seems to be saying that Youngkins VDOE is wrong on discipline policy because of what the Feds are supposedly saying – which appears to me to be a bit of cherry-picking of opinion.

        1. James C. Sherlock Avatar
          James C. Sherlock

          Larry, all IES does is rigorously study education initiatives and report what it finds. Nothing in that is prescriptive, just informative. It “interferes” with nothing. It is a valuable service.

          1. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            When you say IES and a paper says: ” “The opinions and positions expressed in this practice guide are the authors’ and do not necessarily represent the opinions and Department of Education.” – do you treat it as something beyond opinion?

          2. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            Amazing that you put such faith in IES and condemn VDOE and 21 other states AND how higher ed teaches….

            Can you cite your background and knowledge of this that affirms your authority and credibility in this field?

          3. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            Oops. He is a MSWord master and can C&P with the best of ’em. Oh, and he taught for a couple of three years in a VB school.

  3. Nancy Naive Avatar
    Nancy Naive

    Key Findings
    The MTSS-B program was no better than schools’ usual strategy for students overall. The program did not improve the disruptive behavior, any other student behaviors, or the achievement of students overall.

    The program had behavioral and academic benefits for the 15 percent of students identified at the outset of the study as struggling the most with behavior. At the end of the second year when full implementation supports occurred, this subset of students had significantly less disruptive behavior and higher reading test scores in participating than in non-participating schools. However, the effects on reading were not sustained in the follow-up year, after the program’s training and assistance had ended. The program did not improve any other behavior outcomes or math in any year.

    The program helped put in place most intended MTSS-B systems and practices in participating schools, resulting in better classroom management and functioning and some aspects of school-wide climate compared to non-participating schools. The program led to greater use of all classroom management practices measured and, consistent with these improvements, teachers were observed to have better control of their classrooms and fewer student disruptions.

    https://ies.ed.gov/ncee/pubs/2022008/pdf/2022008_highlights.pdf

    Expanded bullet 3. “The program led to greater use of all classroom management practices measured and, consistent with these im- provements, teachers were observed to have better control of their classrooms and fewer student disruptions. Staff members reported improved teacher-student relationships, academic focus among students, and staff collegiality but not other aspects of school climate such as perceived school discipline, which research has found to be closely linked to MTSS-B effectiveness.”

    1. Nancy Naive Avatar
      Nancy Naive

      So, the program dragged the bottom 15% up, but the effects went away after the program ended?

      Ended? Is this the level of cruelty to which we’ve sunk? “The drug we’ve been giving you has kept you alive, but we’re discontinuing the study.”

      What’s the old chestnut about the perfect and the good enough?

      1. James C. Sherlock Avatar
        James C. Sherlock

        Its called, at least be me, the spotlight effect. You are an experienced guy. You know what that means.

        Train someone, give her a role to play, shine a spotlight on her and turn on the cameras. A little different than the daily grunt work of teaching or counseling or running restorative circles.

        As I told you below, I thought I would find an IES study that showed that MTSS for discipline worked somewhere. I was surprised I did not.

        IES rejects much of the work it has reviewed on the subject as unscientific, supporting only the studies which meet that test, which is its mission. I read a lot of the work supporting MTSS and find it aspirational and not reporting outcomes. So, apparently, does IES.

        1. Nancy Naive Avatar
          Nancy Naive

          Well, who is you? MTSS-B is implemented in 21 States and 1000s of schools. And yes, things get rewritten by lawyers, ALL THE EFFING TIME. ref:OLC We are a litigious society and the next best thing to a legal opinion is a lawyer’s opinion. ref: Eastmn. May not be right, but it’s a fig leaf.

          1. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            yes. 21 states with their version of VDOE are apparently wrong on the issue…according to a lay person whose primary knowledge is what he reads from one thing from IES.. and he recommending changes… to VDOE professionals…. and accusing fraud!

          2. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            Yeah, fraud is a serious charge. Hopefully, he consulted a lawyer like, oh say, Constitutional scholar, John Eastman.

          3. James C. Sherlock Avatar
            James C. Sherlock

            Did not charge fraud. I provided evidence of misuse of references to support the narrative in the Model Guidance and have asked the IG to investigate to determine if fraud was present. But thanks.

          4. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            You used the word fraud. 7 times without proof. Once is implying. Seven times is an accusation.

    2. LarrytheG Avatar
      LarrytheG

      I wonder the same thing about Sherlock and his interest in this as well as his “letter” where he will make recommendations and implies fraud.

      geeze.

      and the findings – the first one does not seem to conform to the next two which seem to confirm benefits.

      But yes, at the end, Sherlock has invested a lot of time into reading and analysis (which I can not agree with) and seems to presume that as a lay person he has figured out that folks who are professionals have got it wrong.

      1. James C. Sherlock Avatar
        James C. Sherlock

        The education professionals are in IES. They report that MTSS does not work when applied to discipline. Read the just completed Impact Evaluation of Training in Multi-Tiered Systems of Support for Behavior. Go to key findings as I reported above. Tell me what you see.

        1. LarrytheG Avatar
          LarrytheG

          I see this:

          ” The program had behavioral and academic benefits for the 15 percent of students identified at the outset of the study as struggling the most with behavior. At the end of the second year when full implementation supports occurred, this subset of students had significantly less disruptive behavior and higher reading test scores in participating than in non-participating schools. However, the effects on reading were not sustained in the follow-up year, after the program’s training and assistance had ended. The program did not improve any other behavior outcomes or math in any year.

          The program helped put in place most intended MTSS-B systems and practices in participating schools, resulting in better classroom management and functioning and some aspects of school-wide climate compared to non-participating schools. The program led to greater use of all classroom management practices measured and, consistent with these improvements, teachers were observed to have better control of their classrooms and fewer student disruptions.”

          am I misunderstanding?

          are you focusing on ONLY some things?

          1. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            Very LAST line of the key findings (not a bullet)

            “This broad approach is being widely promoted and adopted. However, this study, in combination with earlier research, suggests that MTSS-B programs may be more beneficial when targeted to districts and schools where student behavior is a significant challenge”

            The papers and studies forming the Captain’s objections are just as vague as the MTSS-B itself.

            I don’t have a dog in the hunt, but they gotta come up with vague statements.

          2. James C. Sherlock Avatar
            James C. Sherlock

            “May”

      2. Nancy Naive Avatar
        Nancy Naive

        Self-aggrandizement, or more to the point, “there’ profit in confusion.”

        As to the 3 bullets, yes, it does appear contradictory. “Doesn’t do a thing. It does help the bottom 15% while implemented, and improves teacher-student relationship, better manges resources, but doesn’t do a thing.”

    3. James C. Sherlock Avatar
      James C. Sherlock

      I, of course, read it. My article is where you got the reference. I hope other readers are a diligent with the references as you are. Read the summary key finding again. The other findings are spotlight effects.
      – “The program helped put in place most intended MTSS-B systems and practices in participating schools.”
      – “The program led to greater use of all classroom management practices measured”

      The authors described it that way to show that the resources of the study were responsible for the gains. The way it is written seems meant to lead a reader to the conclusion that any system of discipline, given the same focus and resources, would work better.

      In a later article I will contend that, based on my research and interviews, undergraduate teaching programs do not prepare teachers for their early years in schools. My interviewees have opined that is a big reason for a lot of the turnover. I have gotten that opinion from 100% of the teachers I have interviewed.

      If college students can spend four years in a professional program and not emerge better trained than they do, the syllabi are not working. I would like IES to study and report on that. I will ask them to in personal correspondence.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        re: ” The way it is written seems meant to lead a reader to the conclusion that any system of discipline, given the same focus and resources, would work better.”

        not to me. I read the benefits cites as benefits.

        Can you extract the conclusion that you seem to be drawing – from the IES words or are you arriving at your own conclusion independent from them?

        I’m amazed at your presumption of your own opinion here which seems to be based on some recent readings and very little professional experience or knowledge.

        You’re saying the VDOE is wrong as are 21 other states and you’re recommending changes to the way Colleges teach.

        wow!

      2. Nancy Naive Avatar
        Nancy Naive

        “”If college students can spend four years in a professional program and not emerge better trained than they do, the syllabi are not working. I would like IES to study and report on that. I will ask them to in personal correspondence.”

        Maybe MTSS-L(earning) is needed at UVa?

  4. Nancy Naive Avatar
    Nancy Naive

    The fastest route to “expert status” is as a gadfly. You only need to know enough to be irritating.

  5. LarrytheG Avatar
    LarrytheG

    Is Sherlock way out of his proverbial skis on this?

    He does not appear to have much background and experience in the actual subject beyond views he has expressed about discipline issues in schools.

    If I understand it correctly, he disagrees with the multi-prong approach and uses selective readings to imply that it does not work, is wrong, and policy for use borders on fraud.

    Beyond this, what is he advocating be done instead and where is the research and DOE policy recommendations to support that?

    1. Nancy Naive Avatar
      Nancy Naive

      B-I-N-G… you know the rest.

  6. James C. Sherlock Avatar
    James C. Sherlock

    Readers will note that the first 100 or so comments are from Nancy and Larry. Clearly struck a nerve by researching the topic and forcing the dogmatic left to try to defend the status quo.

    Should be fun to watch when teachers weigh in. Or school board members. Or the VTSS bureaucracy at VDOE and VCU who I have invited to comment.

    1. James Wyatt Whitehead Avatar
      James Wyatt Whitehead

      MTSSB. The main problem is an unintended side effect. The program does not send a clear and substantial consequence for one’s action. It has caused the spread of simple defiance to other students that would normally be in compliance. Yes, rewrite or can this document.

      My scorecard says the Captain is winning. Mr. Larry and NN haven’t landed any good punches.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        is THAT what Sherlock is essentially arguing?

        1. James C. Sherlock Avatar
          James C. Sherlock

          I argue exactly what I wrote

    2. LarrytheG Avatar
      LarrytheG

      so you sorta know where Sherlock is headed when he starts talking “dogmatic left”. Seems to be a problem for conservatives in general these days – and ironic he seems to love IES – I bet they’re not exactly “conservatives”, eh?

      I actually did read through what Sherlock wrote and waiting a day to comment and yes, would like to hear some actual teachers weigh in including Mr. Hurtt a working administrator in Wise, Va.

      I still would like to know Sherlock’s background and knowledge on the issue that makes his views credible and authoritative – enough so that he’s “advising” VDOE and other states professionals that their policies are in error.

      Finally, what is Sherlock advocating for if he feels this is a wrong policy? For instance, what are the alternatives to this that he likes better and has other professionals support?

      1. James C. Sherlock Avatar
        James C. Sherlock

        101

  7. walter smith Avatar
    walter smith

    I don’t even have to read all the jargon to tell you it is stupid. By knowing the types who drafted it, I can guarantee it is stupid. The people who say put menstrual products in men’s rooms. That a trans man ( or is it trans woman? I mean a man who mutilates his body to claim he is a woman) can get pregnant. Who slobber over the first black woman Supreme who herself can’t say what a woman is. The Left is full of virtue signaling, ignorant, ungrateful, ungracious buffoons.
    Larry cites CONSENSUS! as his version of SCIENCE! Consensus just means the stupidity is widespread and there are an awful lot of “professionals” sucking on the teat of government money and producing no value.
    Just citing Arne Duncan is enough to know the stupid genesis. Dear Colleague led to regret rape and no due process for males with recovered memories years later that consensual sex was rape and the refusal to discipline minorities in K-12 to make the statistics look better…which was a part of why Nikolas Cruz was not expelled from Parkland and got to shoot so many.
    And we go back to the problem of illegitimacy and the attendant behavior problems…which none of the Lefties want to admit
    Just like not admitting that the Monkeypox fear porn is almost exclusively a gay man on man sex problem…

    1. Nancy Naive Avatar
      Nancy Naive

      You and Sherlock both… not reading of course.

      1. James C. Sherlock Avatar
        James C. Sherlock

        103

      2. walter smith Avatar
        walter smith

        And your usual lack of substance. Besides all the other educational apparatchiks are, lemming-like, falling in line and therefore – CONSENSUS! – why are his criticisms invalid?
        I think he is too mild. If it comes from the Left, it is buffoonery. Until you people acknowledge that there are only two sexes – you know – SCIENCE! – you have no right to be taken seriously.

  8. LarrytheG Avatar
    LarrytheG

    not speaking for Matt and hope he’s okay with me sharing something he said in a recent prior post – about discipline:

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/7a6be996b935c542d1ede439c897bf013f7070eff30e84968d9d4e6be1097b27.jpg

    1. James C. Sherlock Avatar
      James C. Sherlock

      More than one way to skin a cat. My point exactly. Matt tells a story. That is called anecdotal evidence. This article is not about anecdotal evidence.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        sounds a LOT like not using discipline as the sole approach. ” We really tried to take into account each kid’s situation, and try to work with them from a positive position rather than relying solely on punishment.”

        What am I not understanding here?

        It appears you are arguing that discipline be the only focus for disruptive students.

        No?

        1. James C. Sherlock Avatar
          James C. Sherlock

          No.

    2. James C. Sherlock Avatar
      James C. Sherlock

      102

    3. James C. Sherlock Avatar
      James C. Sherlock

      Matt is a man full grown. He can speak for himself, but thanks.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        well more than that – someone who likely has actual experience and knowledge on the subject…

  9. Nancy Naive Avatar
    Nancy Naive

    “A Conceptual Replication Study of the Enhanced Core Reading Instruction MTSS-Reading Model

    States are increasingly recommending that districts and schools use multi-tiered systems of support (MTSS) to improve reading outcomes for all students. States have also suggested MTSS is a viable service delivery model in response to new state legislation to screen, identify, and treat students with word-level reading disability (i.e., dyslexia). One model of MTSS that utilizes Enhanced Core Reading Instruction (ECRI MTSS), has demonstrated significant increases in students’ early acquisition of foundational reading skills (Smith et al., 2016). The purpose of this study was to conduct a conceptual replication of the Smith’s (2016) original impact study. In a cluster-randomized controlled trial, 44 schools were randomly assigned to the ECRI MTSS treatment or a business-as-usual (BAU) MTSS control condition. Across conditions, 754 students were assigned to receive Tier 2 intervention in addition to Tier 1 instruction. Impact data indicate moderate to strong effects on student decoding, word reading, and fluency skills for students in the ECRI MTSS schools. Results suggest that schools can use ECRI MTSS to improve foundational reading skills for struggling early readers, including students with or at risk for word-level reading disabilities (i.e., dyslexia).”

    https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0014402920953763

    1. James C. Sherlock Avatar
      James C. Sherlock

      104

      1. Nancy Naive Avatar
        Nancy Naive

        105 and 106. Classic pump & dump.

    2. James C. Sherlock Avatar
      James C. Sherlock

      But the article you cite is about teaching reading to dyslexic students. Reading – academics, not discipline.

      You will note in the article that I was very careful to distinguish between them. I made a major point of it. MTSS/RTI was all about dyslexia until the civil rights lawyers in the Obama administration decided it must work for discipline.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        If you do even a rudimentary search, MTSS is an accepted and widespread approach. Just a simple Google search reveals this.

        Your claim that it was merely Obama civil rights lawyers thing just simply ignores the reality that it’s widely accepted as a valid approach.

        They’re looking at the whole student not just his/her disruptive acts. no?

        1. Nancy Naive Avatar
          Nancy Naive

          Research? You mean pay for the download of refreed journal articles on the subject?

  10. Lefty665 Avatar

    “Fraud Assessment. Virginia Model Guidance was published by VDOE in June of 2021.

    It ignored reports by IES that questioned and indeed disproved the Virginia Model Guidance narrative. That can be explained by incompetence; but it proved convenient to the narrative.

    But Model Guidance cited as evidence federal documents that had already been withdrawn when cited. Incompetence cannot explain the false references….

    I will report the potential fraud to the Inspector General for investigation.”

    FRAUD! SIN! Bring on the inquisition, Threaten ’em with the rack and the IG, they’ll recant. It worked with Galileo.

    There is an old saw, “Never ascribe malice to something that can be explained by incompetence.”

    That is certainly the standard I apply to you. You don’t mean badly, it’s just your judgemental, holier than thou, Jesuit self that makes you do it.

  11. Nancy Naive Avatar
    Nancy Naive

    MTSS is a framework, management system, and is fitted out specific to each State’s laws, and uses evaluation and remediation specfic to however the granular the division wishes to go.

    Send your letter, Captain. They will spot you for what you don’t know and craft a “Thank you for your concern” response that you can frame and hang on the wall.

    1. James C. Sherlock Avatar
      James C. Sherlock

      And here is yet another.

      1. Nancy Naive Avatar
        Nancy Naive

        You should probably see someone.

  12. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
    Dick Hall-Sizemore

    I commend you on your extensive research. Just plowing through that VCOE document was a monumental task by itself.
    I think your charge of fraud is overblown. The U.S. Dept of Education document was only one of many cited. It was not put forth as the definitive source. And the fact that it was withdraw by the Dept. of Education under Betsy DeVos in the Trump administration is hardly reason to question its validity.
    The VDOE document is not an academic study or analysis; it is a policy document. Those conducting academic studies or analyses have an obligation to set out the evidence on both sides of an issue and deal with them. Those developing policy should consider all the evidence available, but few, if any, policy documents set out the evidence contrary to the decision that has been arrived at. Critics of that policy, such as you, are of course free to cite negative evidence. The proponents of the policy then may choose to engage in a discussion. There is no fraud here.
    As for your assertion that “the methodology recommended is disproven by research,” that is not really accurate, is it? You cite a study in Oregon that shows that Black kids are harmed by the approach. However, the IES study conducted by Harvard that you link to was a much more extensive study conducted over several years. Its findings were that MTSS, at best, resulted in no harm. For the vast majority of students, it made no difference in their behavior. However, for 15 percent of students “identified at the outset of the study as struggling the most with behavior,” had “significantly less disruptive behavior and higher reading test scores in participating than in non-participating schools.” Isn’t that what we want to do: improve the behavior of those students who act out in class the most? The fact that those results were not sustainable after the program’s training and assistance had ended seems to be a strong indicator of the need to strongly support the program.
    Finally, the study found that “the program led to greater use of all classroom management practices measured and, consistent with these improvements, teachers were observed to have better control of their classrooms and fewer student disruptions.”
    Those key findings do not support your assertion that the methodology has been disproven.

  13. James C. Sherlock Avatar
    James C. Sherlock

    I did not reference in this article evidence from teachers in Virginia Beach that the system’s Positive Behavioral Interventions and Supports (PBIS) system, on the MTSS model, is a mess.

    I did not present it because while disturbing, it is anecdotal.

    Given the fevered challenges here, I offer that evidence for review. They were attachments to a VBPS response to a FOIA request.

    That email.

    From: ‘John F. Sutton III’ via VBCPSSchoolBoard
    Sent: Wednesday, June 3, 2020 11:39 AM
    Cc: VBCPSSchoolboard@googlegroups.com

    Subject: Re: Discipline documents.

    Documents that you requested constitute “public records” because they were prepared by or in the possession of Victoria Manning, an elected School Board Member. The “working papers” exemption under FOIA does not apply to local public school board members. The documents assembled by Mrs. Manning are not the “public records” of the School Board or the School Board’s Ad Hoc Student Discipline Committee.

    I cannot verify that the documents assembled by Mrs. Manning accurately reflect the survey results provided to the Ad Hoc Student Discipline Committee. I have not cross referenced the actual survey results with Mrs. Manning’s documents. Our legal department has excised portions of Mrs. Manning’s documents that could reasonably be used to identifying employees or students and lead to the unauthorized release of confidential data. (emphasis added)

    Respectfully,

    John F Sutton III, M.Ed.
    Coordinator of Policy and Intergovernmental Affairs
    Virginia Beach City Public Schools
    757- 263-1269
    School Board, City of Virginia Beach

    The three attachments, one from each level of school teacher, to that email are at https://www.baconsrebellion.com/app/uploads/2022/08/Elementary.pdf ,
    https://www.baconsrebellion.com/app/uploads/2022/08/Middle.pdf
    https://www.baconsrebellion.com/app/uploads/2022/08/High.pdf

    Ms. Manning provided documents that were sent to her by those teachers because she is both a school board member and a skeptic of PBIS. As I said, anecdotal.

    The key takeaway from the school administration official is that “I have not cross referenced the actual survey results with Mrs. Manning’s documents.”

    Would that he had. It would have provided context. I wonder why he did not.

  14. James C. Sherlock Avatar
    James C. Sherlock

    At this point there are 46 comments above. All but four of them are from Nancy or Larry and my responses. Struck at least those two nerves.

    Those two always get to the blackboard first – they start at midnight and work all night.

    I hope for more diverse commentary and expect to get it now that most people have their coffee.

    1. Lefty665 Avatar

      I gave you some “diverse commentary”, ridiculing your stereotypical, incompetent, judgemental, holier than thou Jesuit leap to a conclusion of SIN! and FRAUD!

      The other day you made up an attack on the Governor and tried to hide behind attributing it to someone you were sure would make it real soon now. Today you accuse VDOE of criminal misconduct, fraud. Those are both disservices to Bacon’s Rebellion.

      Have a nice day Admiral.

  15. Kathleen Smith Avatar
    Kathleen Smith

    I am not sure I want to join the fun, but here it goes.

    Tiered systems of support for academics when initially invented in the 1990’s raised some concern in that students who were duly disabled were not deemed disabled as long as the interventions were working, thus their civil rights as disabled were not fully given when those rights were due. For example a child with a learning disability was no recognized at age 8 but rather at age 10. Thus, 2 years of RTI failed him of his civil rights.

    On the whole of it, we have been doing RTI for years. So I have a few problems with behavior when I enter school. I have never been in a classroom setting nor has imy mother read to me. Therefore when I sit in a group with the teacher reading to other students, I don’t know how to act. Well, there are other kids like me so the teacher intervenes with the whole group and teaches what we do and do not do when in this dumb group. Most kids get it. But a few of us hard heads, really don’t see the purpose. So the teacher does response number 2, she works with those few by ourselves. Promises us some treats, but I am not into candy or stickers. So I am the lone wolf, probably smoking in the bathroom

    1. Kathleen Smith Avatar
      Kathleen Smith

      Continued from above….. probably smoking in the bathroom is my thing, so she decides to work with only me, enter Tier 3. At best, I give her some credit, I begin to like the attention, and well, I decide listening ain’t going to cut it down f I am ignored.

      Thus RTI. It may or may not work depending on the kid, but at least I was not suspended until I got mad and threw the tv off the cart because I was ignored.

    2. Kathleen Smith Avatar
      Kathleen Smith

      Continued from above….. probably smoking in the bathroom is my thing, so she decides to work with only me, enter Tier 3. At best, I give her some credit, I begin to like the attention, and well, I decide listening ain’t going to cut it, if I am ignored.

      Thus RTI. It may or may not work depending on the kid, but at least I was not suspended until I got mad and threw the tv off the cart because I was ignored.

      1. Lefty665 Avatar

        Attention getting behaviors are attention getting. That reinforces them. The more attention they get the more they are reinforced. Positive or negative does not make a lot of difference. The object is attention. That can lead right up the behavior escalator until the behavior is so egregious it results in less attention via removal.

        It is a tough problem.

      2. James C. Sherlock Avatar
        James C. Sherlock

        Whether intended or not, the net effect of the June 2021 Model Guidance for Positive, Preventative Code of Student Conduct Policy and Alternatives to Suspension is a fraud perpetrated on the Virginia school system.

        It presents itself as a sober study.

        It is an ideological fan magazine, not a professional assessment of the pros and cons of MTSS as a means of discipline. It is a disgrace.

        The authors should have written:

        “Here is the research …. Check the references…. Some of them support MTSS for discipline, some do not. The Department of Education IES work so far does not.”

        “The Board of Education has decided to conduct a pilot with the cooperation of school divisions a,b and c who use VTSS and school divisions x, y and z who do not. Here are the outcome measures we will collect and assess. Here are the tools we will evaluate so that school divisions can conduct cost-benefit assessments of VTSS for their own use and track their own performance in the future. We have asked IES for funding to conduct the pilot and to oversee its report.”

        That would have been a professional approach. That would have done the work that the people of Virginia have a right to expect. If the General Assembly paid any attention, they should never let this big a change go through without a pilot.

        School divisions could have made their choices with the facts in hand and had tools to assess how it was working for them.

        I feel sorry for those school systems who put VTSS in place without any thought that the Board of Education, again, intentionally or not, would sign off on such unprofessional work.

        People in positions of public authority are accountable for their actions, not their intentions.

        1. Kathleen Smith Avatar
          Kathleen Smith

          What makes me angry is that school divisions put it in place to help with equity as at that time, the VDOE couldn’t get over itself with equity issues. When the data is bad, it is bad at the state level too, meaning, VDOE had to do something to make the feds happy, so they put in place what they thought the feds would like, then the feds changed their mind. Bottom line, as I said above, it may or may not work. Depends on the kid, the school, the parent, society, the punishment, on and on. Too many ifs. a fool could have figured this out. Why didn’t they just say, to keep our numbers down, don’t suspend students with disabilities or students of color. Might have made it more credible.

          1. James C. Sherlock Avatar
            James C. Sherlock

            So if I read you right, timing is everything.

            Virginia in the very first days of the McAuliffe administration in January of 2014 received and reacted to the Dear Colleague letter written by Obama administration civil rights lawyers and signed by his Secretary of Education. What VDOE and the BOE have been doing ever since during the eight years of the McAuliffe and Northam administrations is continually doubling down. That does not forgive the unprofessional approach, but provides context. Was it your take that they were scared of being sued by the feds or did they agree with the letter or what?

            So, switching gears, what what is your take on VDOE and its apparent reluctance to conduct and assess pilot programs when it is making big changes? It truly puzzles me. Has Virginia ever piloted a change in education guidelines or is that a recent thing?

          2. James C. Sherlock Avatar
            James C. Sherlock

            So if I read you right, timing is everything.

            Virginia in the very first days of the McAuliffe administration in January of 2014 received and reacted to the Dear Colleague letter written by Obama administration civil rights lawyers and signed by his Secretary of Education. What VDOE and the BOE have been doing ever since during the eight years of the McAuliffe and Northam administrations is continually doubling down.

            I assume the McAuliffe and Northam administrations agreed with the text of the letter.

            That does not forgive the unprofessional approach, but provides context.

            Was it your take that they were initially scared of being sued by the feds?

            Switching gears, what what is your take on VDOE and its apparent reluctance to conduct and assess pilot programs when it is making big changes? It truly puzzles me. Has Virginia ever piloted a change in education guidelines or is that a recent thing?

  16. James Wyatt Whitehead Avatar
    James Wyatt Whitehead

    More evidence that the captain is right. Alexandria will require 30 minutes daily of social emotional learning, a key part of Model Guidelines. 180 days of school and suddenly 2700 minutes of instruction have been diverted away from the classroom and into oblivion. No chance of academic improvement next year if this goes forward. Disaster if this is a state wide requirement.
    https://www.acps.k12.va.us/departments/facilities-operations/office-of-safety-and-security-services#22-23
    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/c29d1379dd1309a71a5d60b4d8a9519ad73d482690f2591c6831fcf00dce7ca8.jpg

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