So Much for Racial Reconciliation

If Del. Don McEachin, R-Richmond, hoped to initiate a “healing process” with his resolution apologizing for slavery, he didn’t get off to a very good start yesterday. Del. Frank Hargrove, R-Hanover, took exception to his resolution and made some remarks that some perceived as outrageous. Tempers flared and accusations were hurled.

The exchange was magnified by the media, of course, which loves nothing better than a good cat fight. “Hargrave offends blacks, Jews,” stated the front-page headline in the Richmond Times-Dispatch.

When it comes to symbolic issues like this, there’s a lot more raw emotion than common sense. Hargrave did use indelicate language to express himself. But the fact is, his words reflected the views of many Virginians. And if there is to be any “reconciliation,” as opposed to “capitulation,” the people who hold such views must be allowed to express themselves rather than being shouted down with cries of fiery indignation. Of course, as I wrote in my previous post, “How About a Resolution Atoning for the Welfare State?”, McEachin’s resolution isn’t really about “reconciliation” at all — it’s about imposing a politically correct interpretation of recent history that absolves a failed liberalism of any culpability for the plight of African-Americans in our society today.

Let’s examine Hargrove’s transgressions.

First, Hargrove made the following statement to the Charlottesville Daily Progress:

How far do these calls for apologies go, wondered Hargrove, a member of the House Rules Committee that could take up McEachin’s resolution as early as Wednesday.
“Are we going to force the Jews to apologize for killing Christ?”

Hargrove wondered. “Nobody living today had anything to do with it. It would be far more appropriate in my view to apologize to the Upper Mattaponi and the Pamunkey” Indians for the loss of their lands in eastern Virginia, he said.

Del. David Englin, D-Alexandria, took umbrage. One of three Jewish delegates in the House, Englin recalled how he was picked on when he was a child because of the misperception that Jews killed Jesus. “I want you all to understand,” he told the legislature, “what it means when people the respect and stature of a member of this body perpetuate the notion that Jews killed Christ.”

Excuse me. We can argue until the cows come home — and historians do — the extent to which the high priests of the Jerusalem temple did or did not force Pontius Pilate’s hand to crucify Jesus. But it is a historical fact that for the better part of 2,000 years, Christians did accuse “the Jews” of killing Jesus. It was not Hargrave’s intent to reanimate the view of Jews as Jesus killers. It was quite the opposite: He was saying that most Christians, who once embraced that view, got over it — and rightly so.

Hargrave also said the following, according to the Daily Progress:

“I personally think that our black citizens should get over it. … By golly, we’re living in 2007. Nobody can justify slavery today, but it’s counterproductive to dwell on that. … Political correctness has kind of gotten us into this area.”

Del. Dwight Jones, chairman of the Legislative Black Caucus, responded as follows: “When somebody tells me that I should just get over slavery, I can only express my emotion by suggesting that I am appalled.”

The point that Hargrave was raising, albeit in a clumsy way, was that nursing a cult of victimization does nothing to improve the lives of African-Americans or to better prepare them to prosper in a globally competitive economy. It’s a legitimate argument; indeed an increasing number of blacks are making it. But aggrieved and offended Democrats don’t want to engage that argument. Calling upon the unassailable moral force of the 19th- and 20th-century struggles to abolish slavery and enact Civil Rights, they want to delegitimize dissenting strategies for achieving black prosperity in the 21st century. They want to drive those views from the public sphere — and call it “healing.”

In Frank Hargrave’s case, I think they succeeded. It’ll be a long time, I wager, before he unfolds himself from his foetal position to speak on the topic again. But that doesn’t mean he’ll change his thinking.

One thing I’ve learned from my marriage: Sometimes the best way to get over an argument is just to stop talking about it. Sometimes you just have to agree to disagree, and move on with life. Resolutions like McEachin’s don’t reconcile anyone, they don’t heal anyone. If not time to “get over it,” it is indeed time to “move on.”


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Comments

40 responses to “So Much for Racial Reconciliation”

  1. Anonymous Avatar

    As a business person who does work in other states and countries, I am getting awfully tired of some political idiot like George Allen or Virgil Goode or, now, Frank Hargrove, making some assinine remark slighting people for their race or ethnic backgrounds.
    I like Virginia as much as the next person, but every time something unfortunate like this happens, I end up having to apologize for the Old Dominion, which unfairly diminishes much of the good that is in the state. When will we final elect political leaders that don’t come off sounding like a a bunch of ignorant, ill-bred rednecks? The state has enough racial baggage in its history to begin with.

  2. James Atticus Bowden Avatar
    James Atticus Bowden

    Allen, Goode and Hargrove sound like ignorant, ill-bred rednecks to those who have an ear for racial hyper-sensitivity.

    I blogged on my site about how the hysteria about the remarks fits a political narrative.

    If Jim Webb were still a Republican, his speech at the Confederate memorial in Arlington Cemetery (love the location) would be red meat for everyone who wants to wave the bloody shirt of slavery, segregation and white racism. His speech would be part of a litany cited every time his name came up. As in, “Jim Webb, who gave a pro-Confederate speech, will give the rebuttal to the State of the Union, blah-blah”

    It doesn’t serve the political narrative to keep a litany of every socialist/Marxist/communist statement about economics that a Democrat makes. Like Jim Webb’s excursions into class warfare.

    Conservatives need to deal with reality. Anything that can be imagined as insensitive, a slight, a criticism, a correction, a slam, etc. of un-PC speech will be trumpeted by the Speech Police in the blogs and MSM to reinforce their narrative.

    Everyone but the Liberals can see through it. The challenge is for the Conservatives to encourage the Republicans to be bold and truthful. Don’t go wobbly.

    I’ll be blogging on how to ‘get over slavery.’

  3. Anonymous Avatar

    There’s nothing hypersensitive about it. It is just straight-no-chaser bad manners. Not exactly Virginia Gentlemanly, you see, although our “Virginia Gentlemen” seem to have a penchant for such behavior. Hey, not my fault. I’m a “Move Here” and proud of it.

  4. republitarian Avatar
    republitarian

    Wonderful post, Jim.

  5. Larry Gross Avatar
    Larry Gross

    Mr. Hargrove was born in 1927, more than 20 years before me – and I went to a segregated high school.

    Mr. Hargrove was 31 when Virginia went to Massive Resistence to oppose equal treatment of blacks.

    Is this info relevant with respect to his present day stand?

    How do you think black people feel about what Mr. Hargrove was doing in 1951 and whether he was actively opposing Masssive Resistance… or passively unaware of it or… actively involved.

    This is the problem with modern day statements with respect to one’s involvement – not in Slavery but in unequal treatment of blacks – well within memory many Virginians.

    If one has has a record of speaking out about that wrong and working to rectify it…and they now have this opinion… that’s one thing

    for those who were either passive or actively in support of Massive Resistance… uttering words like Mr. Hargrove did… is “right” risky behavior in my view.

  6. Larry Gross Avatar
    Larry Gross

    error correction:

    “born in 1927, more than 20 years before me”

    LESS than 20 years… sorry

    I graduated from high school in 1963.

  7. Anonymous Avatar

    I am a Black Republican and I believe that the Republicans and Democrats should join in supporting the resolution. The comments made by Hargrove does not help our Party, especially in areas like Hampton Roads, Richmond and Northern Virginia. I’m finding it difficult to recruit new minority members into the party and, at the same time, address comments that could be perceived as insensitive.

  8. James Atticus Bowden Avatar
    James Atticus Bowden

    Anon Black Republican: Your point is precisely why this is such good politics for the Dems. It is a wedge issue that has a narrative.

    Voting for such nonsense doesn’t improve the position of Republicans. The Dems will just demagogue on some other manufactured racial issue.

    It’s up to Republicans to speak the truth – not a lie like a false apology.

  9. Groveton Avatar

    Here we go again. Another stupid statement from an elected politician from the Commonwealth of Virginia. I am a native Virginian and I am sick of these fools running off at the mouth.

    1. George Allen calls a native born Virginian from Fairfax, VA mecaca (sp?).

    2. Virgil Goode rants on and on about the risks of Muslims holding elected office in America.

    3. Frank Hargrove pops off with comments about the Jews killing Christ.

    Stop it!

    Our elected officials sound like idiots. Maybe they are idiots.

    Jim Bacon makes a good point about separating the validity of the underlying debate from the ill-conceived rhetoric surrounding it.

    Apologize for slavery? No.

    Slavery was a heinous injustice but…

    Who is apologizing to whom?

    The slave holders and the slaves are long gone from this world.

    And, I’m afraid, there are just too many historical injustices to completely apologize for them all.

    African Americans and Native Americans took, by far, the worst abuse but our government has abused (or allowed the abuse of) Catholics, Jews, Irish Americans, Hispanic Americans, women and many others over the years.

    We still have a “bee in our bonnet” about gay people although I personally can’t fathom why somebody’s sexal preference is any business of the government.

    My proposal:

    No more brain-less comments from our elected leaders.

    No apologies for things that ended over a century ago.

    If the politicians have nothing better to do with their workdays than pass resolutions – they should pass one reaffirming the Commonwealth of Virginia’s continued dedication to liberty and equality for all people. At least that would be forward looking.

  10. Anonymous Avatar

    Excellent point by Groveton. Hope it puts to rest the idiocies of Bowden and all other mossbacks, West Point graduates and professional Confederates.
    Do they own the label “Virginian.” Hell no! Let’s get back to the true roots!
    Oppose their Revisionism!

  11. moneyrunner Avatar
    moneyrunner

    I’m still waiting for those who denounce Hargrove to tell us what part of his argument they are opposed to.

    The part about it being silly for people who did not own slaves to apologize to people who were not slaves? Perhaps to apologize to people long dead for what others long dead have done?

    Do you go around apologizing for what your great, great grandfathers may have done, even if he did wrong? Please give examples. And who did you apologize to?

    I realize that when the media invents a narrative, it’s tough to start at the beginning and tell people that what they believe is a myth, but intelligent people do that. Weak people go along, muttering under their breath that what they are going along with is silly. No one wants to be thought out-of-step. Its what the able of the emperor’s new clothes is all about.

    Maybe at 79, Hargrove’s age, he decided it he was old enough not to have to put up with the BS of the younger crowd.

  12. moneyrunner Avatar
    moneyrunner

    jvumatjAble = fable

  13. Groveton Avatar

    Moneyrunner asks what wrong with Hargrove’s argument?

    His example of asking if the Jews should apologize for killing Christ. That’s what’s wrong.

    Why?

    1. It’s probably not true. Even the Christian Nicene Creed has, “he was crucified under Pontius Pilate”. Wasn’t Pontius Pilate a Roman and not a Jew? I know that others believe that Pontius Pilate was “put up to it” by the Jewish elders. However, the simple veracity of the statement that the Jews killed Christ is questionable at best and should not be used as an example.

    2. Even if the Jews did kill Christ (which I doubt) – it was not sanctioned, condoned or approved by the government of the United States or by the government of Virginia. Slavery in the US was sanctioned, approved and condoned by both governments. Asking the government to pass a resolution about practices of that very government might be reasonable. The comparison to the the crucifixion of Christ is illogical since the government of Virginia did not exist when Christ was killed.

    3. The use of an inflammatory religious comment in the midst of an inflammatory racial debate is poor style and counter-productive to the argument. It does not answer the question as to whether the government of the Commonwealth of Virginia should apologize for something that the government of the Commonwealth of Virginia did.

    I don’t support apologizing for slavery because the all the oppressors and all the oppressed are long dead. It was too long ago.

    I don’t support apologizing for slavery because there have been many injustices committed against various minority groups over the years. Apologizing for one appalling breach of morality while ignoring others seems incomplete and unfair.

    I don’t support apologizing for slavery because it sets the stage for a debate about monetary reparations and may have consequences beyond a simple apology.

    Those are my arguments. Notice that I never mentioned Jews killing Christ. That would have been illogical, factually questionable and contrary to making an effective argument.

    Maybe at 79, Hargrove’s age, he should retire before the next golden nugget of knowledge comes careening out of his mouth.

    BTW – Wasn’t Christ a Jew himself?

  14. Larry Gross Avatar
    Larry Gross

    I’m actually in favor of legislators telling us how they really feel? 😉

    For once.. we can judge them on who they really are and not their cardboard facades.

    And if some of them are “closet” whatevers… great to have them come out!

    I DO wonder from a black perspective if the Slavery word is shorthand for the many abuses that have continued well into our own individual lifetimes.

    I DID attend a segregated school. I watched the upheaval of the riots and to this day.. I am suprised when I talk to others who claim they do not remember them or that they were too busy to notice. It seems unbelieveable to me that a dozen major cities were on fire… and people did not notice?

    If not mistaken – the “apology” idea is at least somewhat related to the South African…. reconcilation process where the idea is to get the apology on the table.. and move on.

    After the apology is made… going back and red-dreging the issues has less and less support of those who accepted the apology – and the issue hopefully tampers down….

    and again.. if black folks say this is a problem… just like if your spouse says something is a problem… don’t dare to tell them that it’s not – just accept it on face value and give them the benefit of the doubt – and move on.

    unless of course.. one wants to spoil for a fight on it….

  15. moneyrunner Avatar
    moneyrunner

    Groveton,

    Perhaps you did not read Hargrove’s comments in context. He was not suggesting Jews should apologize, he was ridiculing the idea. He was pointing out the absurdity of the slavery apology by saying that the Jews apologizing is an equally absurd suggestion.

    The problem with communicating ideas today is that we are “informed” by the media with quotations taken out of context. Thanks to the Internet, we can now get past the media filter. But for those who believe what they read in the newspapers, I can see how they may believe that Hargrove seriously suggested that Jews should apologize.

    And, by the way, did you read about Hargrove’s added comments regarding possible apologies to the Indian tribes that once inhabited this area? Should we not apologize to them? And as a man of Dutch descent, do I deserve an apology from the Spanish about the massacres carried out against by countrymen by the Duke of Parma?

  16. moneyrunner Avatar
    moneyrunner

    Larry,

    There is a major difference in the South African reconciliation process. The people who received the apology and the people who offered it are still alive. If you owned slaves, by all means apologize … to the ex-slave. But don’t let yourself be bullied by people, even your wife, into living a lie. It’s not a matter of spoiling for a fight, it’s standing up for the right; refusing to be told to lie or to dissemble.

    One or two “yes dears” may be OK in your household, but if that is a pattern you have a troubled marriage. I want to communicate with my black, brown red or yellow brothers in the spirit of equality. Giving someone a meaningless apology is either submission or it is condescension. Neither one leads to a healthy relationship.

    If you want to apologize for slavery, be my guest, but leave me out of it.

  17. Larry Gross Avatar
    Larry Gross

    If as recently as 1960, we had “white only”, “colored only”, “native american only” and “dutch only” water fountains.. you’d have a case.

    I can remember Native Americans being treated essentially as blacks but I’ll be danged if I can remember those of Dutch ancestry being lynched by the KKK or refused rooms at motels..

    I would agree that many wrongs have been done to many people over time and place – no question.

    but you don’t tell a women who has been raped to “get over it”.. because ….plenty of other women have also been raped.

    or you don’t tell Jews that lots of other folks were also killed by the Nazi’s and to “get over it”.

    The issue is NOT that bad stuff happened – but I might suggest that it’s about YOUR attitude about it that is a concern of those who do feel victimized.

  18. Larry Gross Avatar
    Larry Gross

    I could be wrong.. not unusual for me…

    but I’m wondering if the “Slavery” issue is shorthand for bad treatment beyond slavery that extended way past when Slavery ended.. right up until even now for some attitudes.

    Is it a request for an affirmative statement that we acknowledge it was wrong … and vestiges of it today are wrong… to clearly separate those who still harbour those attitudes.

    What I’m speaking of… is the continuing friendly affiliation of those that agree that wrongs were done with those that still belong to groups that continue to harbour discrimination in their hearts.

    What would you think if you told a black man you didn’t agree with the past …but you continue to go to an essentially “all white” organization whose other members… still are racist?

    The “apology” may be a strategy to flush out those who really never did lose their racist leanings…..

    talk-the-talk…. walk-the-walk…

  19. Jim Bacon Avatar

    Larry, You don’t tell a woman who’s been raped to “get over it” because *she’s* the one whose been raped.

    You don’t tell a Jew to “get over” the Holocaust because many Holocaust survivors are still alive today.

    By contrast, there are no African-Americans alive today who experienced slavery. I don’t think there are any alive today whose *parents* experienced slavery. Elementary distinction. You’re normally a very perceptive guy. I’m surprised you don’t see the difference.

    Personally, I think it would be entirely appropriate for the Commonwealth of Virginia to apologize for the deeds committed, say, within the 20th century — especially Jim Crow and Massive Resistance. Many of the people affected are still alive. There is someone to apologize to.

    However, and this is my beef with McEachin’s bill, he doesn’t simply want an apology. He links real historical injustices with the problems of African-Americans today and omits mention of factors that are both more recent and more damaging to the current generation of African-Americans.

    If McEachin would strip out that verbiage, which I cited in a previous post, then I would be willing to go along him. But I doubt he would. Waving the “bloody shirt” of slavery is a great way to keep African-Americans on the liberal plantation.

  20. Larry Gross Avatar
    Larry Gross

    Jim – yup… I had prefaced by words with ” but I’m wondering if the “Slavery” issue is shorthand for bad treatment beyond slavery”

    Black folks perhaps see all of these injustices as STARTING with Slavery and then continuing with other insults even after Slavery ended.

    White folks see the “Slavery” word and view the whole timeline differently.

    The question is … if you are white… would you presume to understand the issue from a black man’s perspective???

    … or should you?

    Personally I think the motivation for bringing this up is not exactly honorable … and has a “wedge” odor to it….

    … but you know Mr. Rove I believe promoted this approach to politics and it was well used by partisan folks who gained advantage… and a majority…

    anyhow the dead fish is on the table in the middle of Sunday Dinner now..

    … what to do…. 😕

  21. Larry Gross Avatar
    Larry Gross

    Jim – yup… I had prefaced by words with ” but I’m wondering if the “Slavery” issue is shorthand for bad treatment beyond slavery”

    Black folks perhaps see all of these injustices as STARTING with Slavery and then continuing with other insults even after Slavery ended.

    White folks see the “Slavery” word and view the whole timeline differently.

    The question is … if you are white… would you presume to understand the issue from a black man’s perspective???

    … or should you?

    Personally I think the motivation for bringing this up is not exactly honorable … and has a “wedge” odor to it….

    … but you know Mr. Rove I believe promoted this approach to politics and it was well used by partisan folks who gained advantage… and a majority…

    anyhow the dead fish is on the table in the middle of Sunday Dinner now..

    … what to do…. 😕

  22. Jim Bacon Avatar

    Larry, Yes, the dead fish is on the table. I would urge Mr. McEachin to revise his “apology” so that it is not as ideologically laden as it is now. Omit references to the debatable linkages between slavery/Jim Crow and the current condition of African-Americans and settle for an apology for slavery and Jim Crow… Extract an admission from everyone (as if it were needed) that, yes, slavery and Jim Crow were moral abominations.

    However, if he’s not willing to drop the linkages between those institutions and the current condition of African-Americans, I have no reason to think that he’s dealing in good faith. He is, as you suggest he might be, simply working a wedge issue.

  23. Larry Gross Avatar
    Larry Gross

    Interesting POLL by BET

    “Should the state of Virginia issue a formal apology for slavery?” And here’s how you voted:

    About 59 percent of you said, “Yes. It’s the least the state can do.”

    About 31 percent of you said, “No. It was so long ago, that people just need to get over it.”

    About 10 percent of you said, “Not sure.”

    http://tinyurl.com/2826hd

  24. Anonymous Avatar

    “He was saying that most Christians, who once embraced that view, got over it — and rightly so.”

    Jim, this is one the silliest things you’ve ever said.

    The CHRISTIANS “got over it”??? You almost make it sound like Jews persecuted Christians for millenia and Christians graciously forgave them.

    The idea that the welfare state is responsible for a lot of problems is most certainly true. But the idea that slavery, racism, and Jim Crow had NO lasting dsyfunctionaling effect is just JAB talking. James “gay families are just pretend props being used to destroy my marriage” Bowden.

  25. Jim Bacon Avatar

    Anonymous 7:32. It is a historical fact that Christians blamed the Jews for “killing Jesus” for some 1,900 years. I am not saying that sentiment was justified; I’m simply stating that the sentiment was a historical fact.

    It is also a fact that contemporary New Testament theologians, and the overwhelming majority of Christians, no longer blame the Jews for killing Jesus. The point is, they re-evaluated and rejected their formerly closely held beliefs. And rightly so. Holding “the Jews” collectively responsible for the actions of the leadership of the Jerusalem temple and the Roman procurator is ludicrous.

    The proposition that I “make it sound like Jews persecuted Christians for millenia and Christians graciously forgave them” is itself silly. I never said it or implied it. That is something you read into my remarks.

  26. Groveton Avatar

    Can we all agree that the Commonwealth of Virginia had nothing to do with the crucifixion of Christ? Therefore, there is nothing for which Virginia must apologize (or could even consider apologizing for). Same point with respect to the Spanish oppression of the Dutch.

    I recommend we confine the discussion to things that Virginia or Virginians (under the leadership of the government) could even consider apologizing for. For example:

    1. Slavery
    2. Genocide against Native Americans
    3. Denying women the vote for the fist 150 years of the country.
    4. Etc.

    I am opposed to government making apologies since I think government should be looking forward not backward. Please note – this does not diminish what was done to many minority groups especially heinous abuse of African Americans and Native Americans. I just don’t think formal apologies from the governemnt make any difference.

    As for a personal apology:

    1. I personally apologize as a man of European ancestry for my forefathers being part and parcel of the disgrace of slavery.

    2. I personally apologize as a man of European ancestry for the genocide perpetrated against Native Americans by my distant relatives.

    3. I personally apologize as a man for my long-ago relatives denying women the right to vote for 150 years.

    As for the Jews, Christians, Dutch, etc. – no apologies from me. I have no idea where my ancestors were when Jesus was crucified and the Spanish were abusing the Dutch. I guess they were stealing chickens from the Romans in Germany. Maybe I owe the Romans some chickens back. Anybody know ehere I can find some Romans these days?

  27. Jim Bacon Avatar

    Groveton, If you are willing, as a man of European ancestry, to apologize for your “forefathers” who owned and traded in slaves, do you think it would be appropriate for Don McEachin, as a man of African-American ancestry, to apologize for his “forefathers” who did the actual enslaving of their fellow Africans, maltreated them in forced marches to the coast, and then sold them to the Europeans?

    African slaves didn’t appear out of a vacuum. That ludicrous scene in “Roots” of white slavers raiding peaceful African villages to the contrary, Western Europeans did not enslave anyone. They hunkered down in forts on the coast — “the white man’s graveyard” — suffering from malaria, dysentery and a dozen different diseases and dying like flies. They purchased men, women and children enslaved by other Africans and brought to the coast. The political history of Western Africa between the 1600s and 1800s is the rise of “kings” (chiefs, warlords, whatever you want to call them) based upon their ability to capture slaves, trade them for guns, capture more slaves, and trade them for more guns.

    Conversely, if you’re going to apologize for the actions of your forefathers, are you willing to commend other forefathers — like, oh, maybe, the 350,000 or so Yankee soldiers who died preserving the union and freeing the slaves? Or the Englishmen who stomped out the slave trade in a series of small wars across Africa long after the trans-Atlantic slave trade had ended?

    See, that’s what gets me. All this apology stuff is one-sided. It’s all about instilling guilt in whites and perpetuating the cult of black victimhood. I have zero patience with it.

  28. Groveton Avatar

    I guess I am not being articulate.

    First, Don McEachin should (as an elected representative acting in an official capacity) confine himself to things that pertain to his official duties. Arguably, apologizing for wrongs committed by the Commonwealth of Virginia in the past are among those things that reasonably could be legitimately within Mr. McEachin’s purview. Arguably.

    However, actions ranging from bad behavior to genocide that were committed outside the boundaries of the Commonwealth of Virginia are not within his possible set of official duties. Therefore, issues like the crucifixition of Christ, Spanish abuse of the Dutch and Africans enslaving other Africans are outside the proper bounds of this discussion.

    As I have said, I do not believe that the government should formally apologize for things in the distant past. I believe it is a waste fo time. However, I respect Mr. McEachin’s viewpoint that an apology for slavery is in order. I disagree but I respect his opinion. What I don’t respect is Mr. Hargrove’s point around Jesus and the Jews. It has nothing to do with the Commonwealth of Virginia and only serves to inflame this already emotional issue. His point about Native Americans is logical and probably needs to be considered by the “pro-apologists” like Mr. McEachin. That is another reason why I oppose a formal governmental apology – it is too hard to find all the groups who feel abused and then prioritize them in terms of their level of abuse. Failing to apologize to all who have been abused by the Commonwealth of Virginia over the years is unfair to those left out. So, for the sake of good discipline and order, I would not agree to a formal apology to anybody.

    On a personal note I have prioritized my beliefs regarding US state sponsored abuse and have decided that African Americans, Native Americans and women were sufficiently abused by the governemnt of my ancestors to deserve a personal apology from me. They now have that apology in the form of my prior post on your blog.

    Your point about people’s ancestors fighting in the Union cause is particularly interesting to me. Although I am a native Virginian, my ancestors of the Civil War era were from southern Ohio and Nothern Kentucky. They fought for the Union. However, slavery was legal in the north prior to the Civil War (or War Between the States or War of Nothern Aggression or whatever). Therefore, I believe that my ancestors were part of the government’s support of slavery even if their progeny did fight to end that abhorrent practice.

    I don’t feel guilty for being white. I do feel that my ancestors were (probably) supportive of some very, very bad institutions.

    As for “guilt in whites” and “black victimhood” – I think you are overstating the problem. The problem is two sided. Blacks today are disproportionately poor and, on average, have lower access to quality education than whites. On the other hand, America stands for equality of opportunity not equality of outcome. I support further funding for the education of all poor people understanding that I may pay more taxes and that this funding will disproportionately advantage blacks who are disporportionately poor. I do not support quotas in hiring since I consider this an effort to achieve equality of outcome rather than equality of opportunity.

    BTW – I believe that today’s anti-gay thinking will be viewed (in the future) as an unfair practice by the hetero majority against the gay minority. Even those who are religious will realize that gay people are born gay and, therefore, created that way by God. Hopefully, my ancestors won’t feel obligated to apologize for my viewpoints on this matter.

    Disclosure: Personally, I am hetero.

  29. Anonymous Avatar

    “Admit nothing, explain nothing and apologize for nothing”

    This is one characteristic of the type “A” personality and another is that they are highly competitive, hostile and aggressive, and insecure about their own status. A lot of type “A’s” are feigning outrage over the outrage about Delegate Hargrove’s remarks.

    I just don’t get it — what harm is it in acknowledging reality — why is it that we have this human trait of refusing to face up to our past?

    Do the sons bear the sins of the fathers or not? Certainly much of white wealth and capital that has been passed on was made on the backs of today’s black ancestors. And there is a continuing white-networked access to power and privilege.

    Sure, the outrage is perhaps disproportionate to Delegate Hargrove’s intent in his remarks – but the outrage is not disproportionate to the legacy.

  30. Groveton Avatar

    Good point about the past.

    At the risk of throwing “gasoline on the fire”:

    Can we agree that the primary reason for the US Civil War was slavery?

    I think it was – despite some rhetoric saying it was “state’s rights or some other nonsense”.

    Would it be OK for the Commonwealth of Virginia to apologize for being a principal combatant in a horrible war fought primarily to perpetuate an immoral practice?

  31. Larry Gross Avatar
    Larry Gross

    Isn’t this the STATE to be apologizing for the STATE’s … INSTITUTIONAL role in Slavery and maltreatment of ALL BLACKS in VIRGINIA?

    and yet those that object .. I believe are missing the point of his – either on purpose or just confused.

    This is not about personal circumstances and one’s own ancestors and their involvement.

    And folks… wouldn’t it be really Silly for VIRGINIA – the STATE – to apologize for the bad treatement of the Dutch or even the Jews?

    Perhaps women in terms of the vote – yes.

    This is about VIRGINIA’s treatement of people – specifically it’s failure to insure equality of the races.

    p.s. – I’m with Groveton on the Gay issue also.

  32. Larry Gross Avatar
    Larry Gross

    Isn’t this the STATE to be apologizing for the STATE’s … INSTITUTIONAL role in Slavery and maltreatment of ALL BLACKS in VIRGINIA?

    and yet those that object .. I believe are missing the point of his – either on purpose or just confused.

    This is not about personal circumstances and one’s own ancestors and their involvement.

    And folks… wouldn’t it be really Silly for VIRGINIA – the STATE – to apologize for the bad treatement of the Dutch or even the Jews?

    Perhaps women in terms of the vote – yes.

    This is about VIRGINIA’s treatement of people – specifically it’s failure to insure equality of the races.

    p.s. – I’m with Groveton on the Gay issue also.

  33. Larry Gross Avatar
    Larry Gross

    Here’s what I’m convinced of. That our public schools that taught white people about slavery and maltreatment of Blacks… left many white people essentially uneducated and ignorant on what actually happened.

    Here’s a couple of phrases worth taking in:

    “No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property,” 1868

    “In 1956, the Virginia General Assembly passed a series of laws to implement massive resistance. One of these laws forbade any integrated schools from receiving state funds. Another of these laws established a three-member Pupil Placement Board that would determine which school a student would attend. Of course, the decision of these Boards was based almost entirely on race. Another facet of these laws was the creation of tuition grants which could be given to students so they could attend a private school of their choice; again, in practice, this meant support of all-white schools that appeared as a response to forced integration”

    Now – if you’re a born and bred Virginia – I suspect that your parents were here when the Virginia General Assembly passed these laws and that they had the opportunity to agree, disagree, or stay quiet.

    Now – I’ll be honest – my parents were not activists but they supported the laws.

    Is that a personal shame? Yes. Do I feel a responsibility to do something different from my parents NOW that I am their age? Yes.

    Do I think the current dust-up in the GA is the perfect solution? Absolutely not.

    But my black friends had black parents in Va also and THEY DO remember their parents circumstances at that time ALSO.

    So – one to one between a present day white man and a present day black man – Make Your Peace and if it means giving the black man the benefit of the doubt – do it – and as a White man – DO Move ON.

  34. Jim Bacon Avatar

    Larry, You wrote, “Isn’t this the STATE to be apologizing for the STATE’s … INSTITUTIONAL role in Slavery and maltreatment of ALL BLACKS in VIRGINIA?”

    If that’s all that McEachin’s resolution called for, I’d go along with it. But it’s not. As I have tried to explain, the “whereas” clauses are full of statements that go far beyond simply apologizing for the state’s institutional role in slavery. Go back and read the bill! Excise the objectionable clauses that I alluded to in my posts, and you might have something workable.

    Here’s what the bill says: “RESOLVED by the House of Delegates, the Senate concurring, That the General Assembly hereby atone for the involuntary servitude of Africans and call for reconciliation among all Virginians.”

    What does that mean? It’s vague. By itself, the phrase can mean anything you want. You can understand it only if you read it in the context of the supporting “whereas” clauses. Those clasues are *not* a simple call for an institutional apology. It’s much broader.

    Read the fine print, Larry. If you want a resolution that simply apologizes for the Commonwealth’s role in slavery, then this is not it.

  35. Larry Gross Avatar
    Larry Gross

    re: “involuntary servitude of Africans”

    is this broader than Slavery?

    you bet your bippy ….

    is it true?

    without question – Massive Resistance DID, in fact, directly harm the parents of many black people who live in Virginia right now.

    Imagine a parent who was denied an education.. trying to raise kids in an era where getting a good education was problematical.

    I think what we’re arguing about is how the deck chairs are arranged.

    If WORDs are important and I agree they are – then PROPOSE different ones rather than condemnation without a counter offer.

    Engage the dialogue …. or suffer the consequences…

    This is like someone finding a “tur_” in the house .. and the argument focues on the character of the “tur_” rather than how to get it cleaned up and move on.

  36. Anonymous Avatar

    TO: Jim Bacon, I took your advice and read the “smallprint” in the McEachin resolution. it seems factual and I have no problem with the language – where exactly do you have reservations? Following for readers is the full resolution:

    WHEREAS, slavery has been documented as a worldwide practice since antiquity, dating back to 3500 B.C. in ancient Mesopotamia; and

    WHEREAS, during the course of the infamous Atlantic slave trade, millions of Africans became involuntary immigrants to the New World, and the first African slaves in the North American colonies were brought to Jamestown, in 1619; and

    WHEREAS, the Atlantic slave trade was a lucrative enterprise, and African slaves, a prized commodity to support the economic base of plantations in the colonies, were traded for tropical products, manufactured goods, sugar, molasses, and other merchandise; and

    WHEREAS, some African captives resisted enslavement by fleeing from slave forts on the West African coast and others mutinied aboard slave trading vessels, cast themselves into the Atlantic Ocean, or risked the cruel retaliation of their masters by running away to seek freedom; and

    WHEREAS, although the United States outlawed the transatlantic slave trade in 1808, the domestic slave trade in the colonies and illegal importation continued for several decades; and

    WHEREAS, slavery, or the “Peculiar Institution,” in the United States resembled no other form of involuntary servitude, as Africans were captured and sold at auction as chattel, like inanimate property or animals; and

    WHEREAS, to prime Africans for slavery, the ethos of the Africans was shattered, they were brutalized, humiliated, dehumanized, and subjected to the indignity of being stripped of their names and heritage, and families were disassembled as husbands and wives, mothers and daughters, and fathers and sons were sold into slavery apart from one another; and

    WHEREAS, a series of complex colonial laws were enacted to relegate the status of Africans and their descendants to slavery, in spite of their loyalty, dedication, and service to the country, including heroic and distinguished service in the Civil War; and

    WHEREAS, the system of slavery had become entrenched in American history and the social fabric, and the issue of enslaved Africans had to be addressed as a national issue, contributing to the Civil War from 1861 to 1865 and the passage of the 13th Amendment to the United States Constitution, which abolished slavery and involuntary servitude on December 18, 1865; and

    WHEREAS, after emancipation from 246 years of slavery, African Americans soon saw the political, social, and economic gains they made during Reconstruction dissipated by virulent and rabid racism, lynchings, disenfranchisement of African-American voters, Black Codes designed to reimpose the subordination of African Americans, and Jim Crow laws that instituted a rigid system of de jure segregation in virtually all areas of life and that lasted until the passage of the 1964 Civil Rights Act and the 1965 Voting Rights Act; and

    WHEREAS, throughout their existence in America and even in the decades after the Civil Rights Movement, African Americans have found the struggle to overcome the bitter legacy of slavery long and arduous, and for many African Americans the scars left behind are unbearable, haunting their psyches and clouding their vision of the future and of America’s many attributes; and

    WHEREAS, acknowledgment of the crimes and persecution visited upon other peoples during World War II is embraced lest the world forget, yet the very mention of the broken promise of “40 acres and a mule” to former slaves or of the existence of racism today evokes denial from many quarters of any responsibility for the centuries of legally sanctioned deprivation of African Americans of their endowed rights or for contemporary policies that perpetuate the status quo; and

    WHEREAS, in 2003, during a trip to Goree Island, Senegal, a former slave port, President George W. Bush stated, “Slavery is one of the greatest crimes of history, and its legacy still vexes the United States … Small men took on the powers and airs of tyrants and masters. Years of unpunished brutality and bullying and rape produced a dullness and hardness of conscience. Christian men and women became blind to the clearest commands of their faith and added hypocrisy to injustice. While physical slavery is dead, the legacy is alive. My nation’s journey toward justice has not been easy, and it is not over. For racial bigotry fed by slavery did not end with slavery or with segregation … and many of the issues that still trouble America have roots in the bitter experience of other times … But however long the journey, our destiny is set: liberty and justice for all”; and

    WHEREAS, in the Commonwealth, home to the first African slaves, the vestiges of slavery are ever before African American citizens, from the overt racism of hate groups to the subtle racism encountered when requesting health care, transacting business, buying a home, seeking quality public education and college admission, and enduring pretextual traffic stops and other indignities; and

    WHEREAS, European and African nations have apologized for their roles in what history calls the worst holocaust of humankind, the Atlantic Slave Trade, and racial reconciliation is impossible without some acknowledgment of the moral and legal injustices perpetrated upon African Americans; and

    WHEREAS, an apology for centuries of brutal dehumanization and injustices cannot erase the past, but confession of the wrongs can speed racial healing and reconciliation and help African American and white citizens confront the ghosts of their collective pasts together; and

    WHEREAS, the story of the enslavement of Africans and their descendants, the human carnage, and the dehumanizing atrocities committed during slavery should not be purged from Virginia’s history or discounted; moreover, the faith, perseverance, hope, and endless triumphs of African Americans and their significant contributions to the development of this Commonwealth and the nation should be embraced, celebrated, and retold for generations to come; and

    WHEREAS, the perpetual pain, distrust, and bitterness of many African Americans could be assuaged and the principles espoused by the Founding Fathers would be affirmed, and great strides toward unifying all Virginians and inspiring the nation to acquiesce might be accomplished, if on the eve of the commemoration of the 400th anniversary of the first permanent English settlement in the New World, the Commonwealth acknowledged and atoned for its pivotal role in the slavery of Africans; now, therefore, be it

    RESOLVED by the House of Delegates, the Senate concurring, That the General Assembly hereby atone for the involuntary servitude of Africans and call for reconciliation among all Virginians; and, be it

    RESOLVED FURTHER, That the Clerk of the House transmit a copy of this resolution to the Secretary of the Commonwealth, the Secretary of Education, the Superintendent of Public Instruction, the Executive Director of the State Council of Higher Education, the Chancellor of the Virginia Community College System, and the Executive Director of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, Virginia State Chapter, requesting that they further disseminate copies of this resolution to their respective constituents so that they may be apprised of the sense of the General Assembly of Virginia in this matter.

  37. Jim Bacon Avatar

    Bill Garnett, Let me reproduce an excerpt from my original post on this topic. I cited these passages from the resolution:

    “An apology for centuries of brutal dehumanization and injustices cannot erase the past, but confession of the wrongs can speed racial healing and reconciliation and help African American and white citizens confront the ghosts of their collective pasts together. … Racial reconciliation is impossible without some acknowledgment of the moral and legal injustices perpetrated upon African Americans. …

    “Throughout their existence in America and even in the decades after the Civil Rights Movement, African Americans have found the struggle to overcome the bitter legacy of slavery long and arduous, and for many African Americans the scars left behind are unbearable, haunting their psyches and clouding their vision of the future and of America’s many attributes. …

    “In the Commonwealth, home to the first African slaves, the vestiges of slavery are ever before African American citizens, from the overt racism of hate groups to the subtle racism encountered when requesting health care, transacting business, buying a home, seeking quality public education and college admission, and enduring pretextual traffic stops and other indignities.”

    As I explained in my original post: “This document does not merely ask Virginians merely to apologize for slavery — it asks that Virginians collectively accept moral responsibility for the condition of African-Americans today. Further, it asks us to accept facts that are demonstrably untrue (that African-Americans are the victims of racism in college admissions) and facts that are arguably untrue (that African-Americans are discriminated against by mortgage lenders and providers of health care). And it does so without ever mentioning the devastation wreaked upon the African-American community by the modern welfare state.”

  38. Anonymous Avatar

    I’m not naïve – there has been in our recent past and still endures “subtle racism encountered when requesting health care, transacting business, buying a home, seeking quality public education and college admission, and enduring pretextual traffic stops and other indignities.” And this persists because of our collective bias against people who have different skin pigmentation and who are perceived negatively due to a cultural bias that has persisted through generations.

    “It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring”. – Carl Sagan

    As unfortunate as many of the results of the Welfare State were, the intent was noble – not so unlike the Iraq War. Both failed in their execution and in a clear understanding of the consequences of the actions. Neither were immoral in intent. Slavery was. And the legacy of bigotry, intolerance, bias is and remains immoral.

    It seems to me that to have passed this resolution without the nationally publicized spectacle of resistance, would have shown Virginia to be moving in the direction of inclusion, tolerance, and reconciliation. These, in my opinion, are noble. Instead we are again portrayed as “Macaca” speaking, Islamic ignorant, homophobic, and racist – not useful to our state or to our citizens.

  39. Anonymous Avatar

    I’m not naïve – there has been in our recent past and still endures “subtle racism encountered when requesting health care, transacting business, buying a home, seeking quality public education and college admission, and enduring pretextual traffic stops and other indignities.” And this persists because of our collective bias against people who have different skin pigmentation and who are perceived negatively due to a cultural bias that has persisted through generations.

    “It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring”. – Carl Sagan

    As unfortunate as many of the results of the Welfare State were, the intent was noble – not so unlike the Iraq War. Both failed in their execution and in a clear understanding of the consequences of the actions. Neither were immoral in intent. Slavery was. And the legacy of bigotry, intolerance, bias is and remains immoral.

    It seems to me that to have passed this resolution without the nationally publicized spectacle of resistance, would have shown Virginia to be moving in the direction of inclusion, tolerance, and reconciliation. These, in my opinion, are noble. Instead we are again portrayed as “Macaca” speaking, Islamic ignorant, homophobic, and racist – not useful to our state or to our citizens.

  40. Larry Gross Avatar
    Larry Gross

    Point well taken.

    Macaca would have had no legs .. had there not already been suspicion … like unrefuted allegations of personal momentos with Confederate flag imagery and insignia; association with groups known to be not exactly tolerant with regard to race and ancestry; and then the very peciluar dyanmic with his own Jewish ancestry.

    Give Hargrove and Goode credit. Honest men, who say what they believe and to be honest, better than some notable lying politicians that we’ve known.

    But all … symbolic of Virginia itself. Our image … betrayed by the words of our leaders…

    Do WE step up once and for all and soundly reject it, put a stake in that dark heart …

    .. or do we fight over the “wording” ..

    and some who are watching .. suspect that the fight.. is spurred by the same folks .. behind the scenes.. urging surrogates to do the public bidding.

    A really evil strategy.. would be for someone to get a luminary like David Duke to come to Richmond to stand shoulder to shoulder with Hargrove and Goode to condemn the resolution.

    Then the world would REALLY notice Virginia.

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