So Much for Empathetic Listening


by James A. Bacon

Militant students and faculty at the University of Virginia — and elsewhere — often talk about having “hard conversations” about the tragic realities in Gaza. To see what those “conversations” sound like, click on the video above.

It was hard alright — hard for President Jim Ryan. The students had no interest in confronting any discomfiting truths themselves.

The Daily Progress has the back story.

Ryan had an appointment on his calendar for more than a month with UVA Apartheid Divest, a coalition of 43 student groups demanding that UVA divest endowment assets from any company doing business with Israel. He entered Pavilion VI on the Lawn, accompanied by Chief Student Affairs Officer Kenyon Bonner and Dean of Students Cedric Rucker, expecting the meeting he had agreed to. But the students had other ideas.

“President Ryan, your students are waiting for you outside,” they said. They stepped out of the room and onto the Lawn where 30 classmates had gathered. Many had red paint on their hands, symbolizing blood.

Fifth-year student Najwa Labban began reading a statement denouncing statements Ryan had made in a recent “town hall” accusing him of lying about his actions in shutting down the “liberated zone” for Gaza. Then the crowd erupted into chants.

“35,000 dead, you’re arresting kids instead.”

“Jim Ryan, you can’t hide, you’re supporting genocide.”

Ryan has spoken often about engaging in civil dialogue and empathetic listening. But there was no chance here to engage in dialogue of any kind. The students had no interest in listening, empathetic or otherwise. Ryan, Bonner and Rucker simply walked away.

How did students explain their behavior?

“President Ryan’s actions were so inexcusable that there was no way we could have a good faith conversation with him after he refused to engage in good faith with students protesting peacefully for Palestine,” said Josh Rosenberg, the third-year student and head of Students for Justice in Palestine who spoke on behalf of UVa Apartheid Divest.

“The meeting wasn’t going to yield any results,” Eli Weinger, a second-year student also representing UVa Apartheid Divest, told The Daily Progress. “If he is willing to lie in front of 3,000 people in a town hall, he’d be willing to lie in a closed-door meeting with five students.”


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78 responses to “So Much for Empathetic Listening”

  1. If you start with the silly premise that all modern institutions are systemically corrupt this sort of thing makes silly sense and we are seeing a lot of it. The epistemology of conspiracy theories is that they are irrefutable. Lack of evidence is just taken to prove they are working.

    Learn to expect it.

  2. Eric the half a troll Avatar
    Eric the half a troll

    “So Much for Empathetic Listening”

    Since the administration already responded to their concerns as such:

    “Following the student referendum in February, members of the ACIR met with students who are interested in the issues you have highlighted. The ACIR would welcome the opportunity to hear more about your questions and concerns. We would be happy to arrange this for you.

    Your request for permanent withdrawal from academic relations with Israeli institutions is not one we can support, for a number of reasons…”

    Maybe the students already understand what the they will empathetically hear…

  3. Turbocohen Avatar
    Turbocohen

    UVA has a Democrat problem. And so do Jews. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_question

    1. Lefty665 Avatar
      Lefty665

      You mean Jews like “Josh Rosenberg, the third-year student and head of Students for Justice in Palestine who spoke on behalf of UVa Apartheid Divest.”?

    2. Lefty665 Avatar
      Lefty665

      You mean Jews like “Josh Rosenberg, the third-year student and head of Students for Justice in Palestine who spoke on behalf of UVa Apartheid Divest.”?

    3. Lefty665 Avatar
      Lefty665

      You mean Jews like “Josh Rosenberg, the third-year student and head of Students for Justice in Palestine who spoke on behalf of UVa Apartheid Divest.”?

      1. Matt Adams Avatar
        Matt Adams

        Being a Jew doesn’t mean you can’t be Anti-Semitic.

        Beyond that, SJP approved of Hamas’s actions on Oct. 7th, so they aren’t exactly on the right side of this conflict.

        1. Lefty665 Avatar
          Lefty665

          OMG those anti semites are everywhere! Be afraid, be very afraid of Jews against genocide.

          1. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            SJP literally cheered for the actions Hamas took on October 7th.

            Genocide is easy, especially given Gaza’s size, so the fact the conflict has continued thisong disproves that statement.

            So the question is, do you stand with SJP and their cheering sections for terrorists?

            https://www.adl.org/resources/backgrounder/students-justice-palestine-sjp

            You do a pretty good Goose Step.

          2. Lefty665 Avatar
            Lefty665

            You resort to ad hominems when you have nothing substantial to say. Congrats.

            Genocide is easy for Israel when we provide it with 1 ton bombs to drop on women and children.

            I stand with Jews Against Genocide.

            Have a nice day.

          3. CJBova Avatar

            You also stand with Hamas by repeating their false claims. See DJ’s link:https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/how-gaza-health-ministry-fakes-casualty-numbers

            “The fog of war is especially thick in Gaza, making it impossible to
            quickly determine civilian death totals with any accuracy. Not only do
            official Palestinian death counts fail to differentiate soldiers from
            children, but Hamas also blames all deaths on Israel even if caused by
            Hamas’ own accidental explosions, deliberate killings, or internal battles.”

          4. Lefty665 Avatar
            Lefty665

            Denial ain’t just a river in Egypt (or Mexico if you’re demented old Joe). It is not hard to separate the soldiers from the women, children, old people and infants. Oh, it’s the fog of war, who can tell who they are is a fig leaf if you want it. Dream on, it’s a wonderful world.

          5. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            “Not only do official Palestinian death counts fail to differentiate soldiers from children…”

            Do you know that IDF counts all male deaths as non-civilian deaths… do you think that is true…?

          6. Lefty665 Avatar
            Lefty665

            Here’s an article on the danger of conflating Jewishness with Zionism. It is possible to oppose what Israel is doing without being antisemitic or being pro Hamas.

            https://thehill.com/opinion/congress-blog/4657119-the-antisemitism-awareness-act-is-bad-for-american-jews-heres-why/

          7. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            No that’s an article about the Antisemitism Awareness Act is bad and it is bad for a whole host of reasons. To not including you can’t discuss what happened during WWII as it’s considered antisemitic.

            The author is also injecting a good bit of opinion not rooted in fact about the bill. Which doesn’t do anyone any good

          8. Lefty665 Avatar
            Lefty665

            You might try reading the whole article instead of going off half cocked. He makes a larger point than just the Act (which you correctly criticize).

            Have a nice day.

          9. CJBova Avatar

            The comment was not irrelevant so not ad hom because it describes your consistently repeated Hamas tslking points. https://www.txst.edu/philosophy/resources/fallacy-definitions/Ad-Hominem.html

          10. Lefty665 Avatar
            Lefty665

            “You do a pretty good Goose Step.” If I quoted that and added “too” in response to you would you consider that an ad hominem attack?

            I won’t do that because I don’t believe it is so, but do believe you would be right to consider that an ad hominem comment if directed at you.

            My observation was that the guy using the Alfred E. Neuman avatar resorts to ad hominem attacks when he has nothing substantive to say. That observation was right on the money, it was not a complaint. Stepping right along, my skin is a little thicker than to be offended by his foolishness.

          11. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            A.) Being on topic does not make an ad hominem argument less fallacious.

            B.) That was clearly an ad hominem argument as is yours.

          12. Lefty665 Avatar
            Lefty665

            “You do a pretty good Goose Step.” If I quoted that and added “too” in response to you would you consider that an ad hominem attack?

            I won’t do that because I don’t believe it is so, but do believe you would be right to consider that an ad hominem comment if directed at you.

            My observation was that the guy using the Alfred E. Neuman avatar resorts to ad hominem attacks when he has nothing substantive to say. That observation was right on the money, it was not a complaint. Stepping right along, my skin is a little thicker than to be offended by his foolishness.

          13. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            “to practice an unthinking conformity.”

            Is the literal definition of the term.

            Which you do so at a rapid rate on this topic.

            “My observation was that the guy using the Alfred E. Neuman avatar resorts to ad hominem attacks when he has nothing substantive to say. That observation was right on the money, it was not a complaint. Stepping right along, my skin is a little thicker than to be offended by his foolishness.”

            The MAD Magazine avatar means nothing, now, however instead of addressing any of my comments and their factual citations. You’ve taken to attacking me, which is ad hom. So it’s rather comical that you complain about something you’re very accustomed to using yourself.

            Furthermore, your skin isn’t thick at all. It’s paper thin, to the point where anyone dares question you on the topic you blow a gasket. I told you in the fall, it would behoove you to step away from commenting on the topic, to which you slandered me in response.

          14. Lefty665 Avatar
            Lefty665

            If you really feel Alfred E. Neuman “means nothing now” perhaps you should trade it in for Forrest Gump and “Stupid is as stupid does.”

            Have a nice day,

          15. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            Again, another personal attack.

            You’re free to address the facts and citationa I made refuting your claims, you’ve at all times failed to do so.

          16. Lefty665 Avatar
            Lefty665

            When you present something of substance I may comment. Until then, nah, not worth the time. It’s better just to laugh.

            This one was great “Being a Jew doesn’t mean you can’t be Anti-Semitic.” Got some more knee slappers like that to share? 🙂

            Have a nice day.

          17. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            Cool story, you’ve been presented facts refuting your statements in numerous occasions, to which you just attack the poster.

            That’s a factual statement, to believe otherwise is naive.

            https://unpacked.education/video/can-jews-be-antisemitic/

          18. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            There is nothing ad hom in my statements, you’ve refused to acknowledge any fact that dispute your narrative.

            “I stand with Jews Against Genocide.”

            Your statements say otherwise and you’re parroting talking points for those who cheered when Israeli civilians were murdered on October 7th.

            “Genocide is easy for Israel when we provide it with 1 ton bombs to drop on women and children.”

            Again, you have no idea what genocide is by this statement alone.

            Also, all your retorts are directed at myself and my understanding of international law, this you’re retorts are as hom. Something you might want to learn about before tossing out that statement.

        2. Chip Gibson Avatar
          Chip Gibson

          You nailed it, Matt. George Soros.

    4. Nancy Naive Avatar
      Nancy Naive

      Oooh, how Trumpy.

  4. WayneS Avatar

    “The meeting wasn’t going to yield any results,” Eli Weinger, a second-year student also representing UVa Apartheid Divest, told The Daily Progress.

    Well then the proper and professional thing to do would have been to call Mr. Ryan’s office 24 hours ahead of time and cancel the meeting.

    Clearly that university is not preparing its students for the real world…

    1. Eric the half a troll Avatar
      Eric the half a troll

      “Well then the proper and professional thing to do would have been to call Mr. Ryan’s office 24 hours ahead of time and cancel the meeting.”

      Not seeing how doing just that has any impact on progressing the student’s stated goals.

      1. Marty Chapman Avatar
        Marty Chapman

        To what goals are you referring? The students requested the meeting?

      2. Marty Chapman Avatar
        Marty Chapman

        To what goals are you referring? The students requested the meeting?

        1. Eric the half a troll Avatar
          Eric the half a troll

          Won’t do your reading for you…

          1. Marty Chapman Avatar
            Marty Chapman

            Actually I expect some of my reading would do you a world of good!

  5. Stephen Haner Avatar
    Stephen Haner

    Spoiled brats. An ambush just to create a viral video. I have long held UVA is far lower esteem than it holds itself. Nice to see my prejudice confirmed. Please, employers, put all those resumes on the bottom of the pile. The entire school is tainted by that behavior.

    1. William O'Keefe Avatar
      William O’Keefe

      Yes, they are spoiled brats. Now we see what enabling produces. To me Father Hesburgh’s 1969 letter giving students 15 minutes to cease violating university policies or be suspended is still the right course of action.

    2. walter smith Avatar
      walter smith

      Doing its best to pull down the prestige.
      You can only eat so much seed corn before you ruin yourself…

    3. DJRippert Avatar
      DJRippert

      My esteem for UVa has been falling too, and I graduated from that once fine institution.

      “35,000 dead, you’re arresting kids instead.”

      So much stupidity in a single, short, sing-songy sentence more befitting something made up in a kindergarten than an institution of higher learning.

      “35,000 dead”

      According to whom, Hamas? Here’s an interesting statistical look at the Hamas claims:

      https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/how-gaza-health-ministry-fakes-casualty-numbers

      “you’re arresting”

      As far as I know, Jim Ryan has no power to arrest anybody. He asked the police to break up the “encampment”. The tried multiple times to get the anarchists / protesters to simply take their tents and leave. They refused. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

      “kids”

      Almost none 0f the adults encamped or arrested were 17 or younger. The arrested are adults, just like the young men and women who are, right now, in boot camp in Paris Island, SC. I wonder if those Marines consider themselves “kids”.

      “instead”

      Instead of what?

      Do these pinheads really think Jim Ryan has some kind of diplomatic or foreign policy authority to intervene in the war against the jihadist terrorists in Hamas?

  6. Eric the half a troll Avatar
    Eric the half a troll

    “So Much for Empathetic Listening”

    Since the administration already responded to their concerns as such:

    “Following the student referendum in February, members of the ACIR met with students who are interested in the issues you have highlighted. The ACIR would welcome the opportunity to hear more about your questions and concerns. We would be happy to arrange this for you.

    Your request for permanent withdrawal from academic relations with Israeli institutions is not one we can support, for a number of reasons…”

    Maybe the students already understand what the they will empathetically hear…

    1. WayneS Avatar

      Your request for permanent withdrawal from academic relations with Israeli institutions is not one we can support, for a number of reasons…”

      Well there you go. They already had their answer. There was no reason to schedule a meeting in the first place…

      1. Nancy Naive Avatar
        Nancy Naive

        What are the reasons? Are the relationships between UVa and Israeli Institutions involving the IDF? Are the “Israeli institutions” just the IDF?

        How many foreign military contracts and grants does UVa currently have?

        1. Eric the half a troll Avatar
          Eric the half a troll

          Maybe Walt can FOIA that…

          1. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            Not likely. “La la la la …”

            The truth is our retirements are funded on the deaths of Israelis, Palestinians, Russians, and Ukrainians alike. An inextricable amount of the return for the invested class depends on war. Every technology is dual use nowadays.

  7. LarrytheG Avatar
    LarrytheG

    Well geeze… good they are just “militants” and not anti-Semitic Hamas lovers, eh? I’m relieved!

  8. DJRippert Avatar
    DJRippert

    Let’s do some simple math.

    Population of Israel: 9,558,000
    Population of USA: 335,893,238
    Population multiple: 35X
    Number of Israelis killed on Oct 7: 1,200
    Population equivalent number of Americans: 42,000

    Imagine if the Mexican people elected members of the Mexican cartels to lead their country and that elected (and still supported) government sent soldiers across the southern border and killed 42,000 American civilians one day.

    Oh, they also took 8,820 hostages.

    There would be no Mexico.

    It would be a smoking, smoldering dystopian wasteland.

    “The PCPSR found that, compared to pre-war polling, support for Hamas had risen in Gaza …”

    https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/poll-shows-palestinians-back-oct-7-attack-israel-support-hamas-rises-2023-12-14/

    Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

    1. Nancy Naive Avatar
      Nancy Naive

      Ooh, oooh, now do Gazans.

    2. LarrytheG Avatar
      LarrytheG

      re: ” It would be a smoking, smoldering dystopian wasteland.”

      yep, all Mexicans, women and children also would be made to pay for that sin… for sure..

      1. DJRippert Avatar
        DJRippert

        And what would you do in that case, Larry? Just lay back and wait for the next Mexican attack because defending yourself after 42,000 of your men, women and children were deliberately killed because defending yourself might involve accidentally killing some of their women and children?

        Life is tough, especially for terrorists and those who elect and support them.

        1. LarrytheG Avatar
          LarrytheG

          You’d just go after all Mexicans, including women and children.

          Is this how “conservatives”.. “think” these days about such issues?

          Do you think ALL of them “support” the terrorists so we gotta just kill them all just to be sure we got them all?

          How many? millions?

          Gawd Forbid – you folks get to be in charge….

        2. LarrytheG Avatar
          LarrytheG

          You’d just go after all Mexicans, including women and children.

          Is this how “conservatives”.. “think” these days about such issues?

          Do you think ALL of them “support” the terrorists so we gotta just kill them all just to be sure we got them all?

          How many? millions?

          Gawd Forbid – you folks get to be in charge….

    3. Lefty665 Avatar
      Lefty665

      You missed a critical number in your analogy. The Israelis have killed about 35,000 Palestinian civilians. That is the equivalent of 1,225,000 (35kx35) in your analogy.

      If the US sent troops into Mexico and killed more than 1 million Mexican civilians the outrage would be worldwide, as it is against Israel today. As you note it would indeed be a smoldering dystopian wasteland. Also, as it is today in Gaza, it would be a crime against humanity.

    4. Nancy Naive Avatar
      Nancy Naive

      What? Don’t all those illegals swimming the Rio Grande with 100 pounds of fentanyl on their backs count? I’ll bet that stuff kills about 8K each year. Everyone knows the Mexican government is behind it. Trump says so.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        dang right. those Mexicans are all alike!

      2. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        dang right. those Mexicans are all alike!

    5. Marty Chapman Avatar
      Marty Chapman

      I would argue Mexican fentanyl kills about twice that many each year.

    6. Matt Adams Avatar
      Matt Adams

      “The PCPSR found that, compared to pre-war polling, support for Hamas had risen in Gaza …”

      Which is incredible sad, given Hamas uses the populace as human shields and than proceeds to claim innocent have been murdered.

      1. Lefty665 Avatar
        Lefty665

        Murdering civilians to get at combatants is a war crime. The rest of the world understands that. It is only a few here and in Israel who pretend to otherwise.

        1. Matt Adams Avatar
          Matt Adams

          “Murdering civilians to get at combatants is a war crime. The rest of the world understands that. It is only a few here and in Israel who pretend to otherwise.”

          Murder is a specific crime. I don’t think you have a singular clue about conflict, seeing as you’ve never been. Parroting terrorist talking points is typically beneath intelligent people.

          1. Lefty665 Avatar
            Lefty665

            Just explaining international law that is ratified as US law to you in hopes that you will learn something. I’m not holding my breath.

            Have a nice day.

          2. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            You don’t have an iota of a clue about international law or law of land warfare.

            You’ve proven this time and time again on this very topic.

          3. Lefty665 Avatar
            Lefty665

            Thank you for the laugh. That is some statement coming from someone who uses Alfred E. Neuman as his avatar. Right in character. You’ve made my day:)

          4. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            I wasn’t aware pointing out someone parroting terrorist propaganda was laughable. I’m also not sure what my MAD magazine avatar has to do with anything.

          5. Lefty665 Avatar
            Lefty665

            Being attacked as clueless by someone using Alfred E. Neuman as an avatar is like being called ugly by a toad. That is what is laughable:) Nor is it a surprise you don’t understand.

            Have a nice day.

          6. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            “Being attacked as clueless by someone using Alfred E. Neuman as an avatar is like being called ugly by a toad. That is what is laughable:) Nor is it a surprise you don’t understand.

            Have a nice day.”

            See that’s a personal attack, maybe you should look up logical fallacies, instead of conspiracy theories.

          7. Lefty665 Avatar
            Lefty665

            You supply enough logical fallacies to supply us all for a long time. No need to look up more.

            Glad you liked what I said enough to repeat it.

            Have a nice day.

        2. LesGabriel Avatar
          LesGabriel

          Hiding behind civilians is also a war crime.

          1. Lefty665 Avatar
            Lefty665

            It is. Do you mistakenly believe that justifies murdering women and children to get at combatants hiding behind them? It specifically and explicitly does not. Civilians must be protected, murdering them to get them out of the way is a war crime.

    7. Lefty665 Avatar
      Lefty665

      You missed a critical number in your analogy. The Israelis have killed about 35,000 Palestinian civilians. That is the equivalent of 1,225,000 (35kx35) in your analogy.

      If the US sent troops into Mexico and killed more than 1 million Mexican civilians the outrage would be worldwide, as it is against Israel today. As you note it would indeed be a smoldering dystopian wasteland like Gaza is today. Also, as it is today in Gaza, it would be a crime against humanity.

      1. CJBova Avatar

        There is o evidence of the number in Gaza killed in the war or of civilians vs combatants except from Hamas. War is not automatically a crime against humanity. Invading another country and murdering people and taking and holding hostages is.

        1. Lefty665 Avatar
          Lefty665

          You can be in denial of what Israel has done in the last 7 months with US assistance if it makes you feel better. That does not change the facts. 35,000 Palestinians have been murdered, around 25,000 of them are women and children.

          Hamas has also committed war crimes, taking hostages specifically is a war crime. That does not justify Israel’s war crimes. Unless of course you believe that one crime against humanity makes another ok.

          You are right, war is not automatically a war crime. Murdering women and children is a war crime. Does murdering innocent women and children in revenge for Hamas’s acts against Israelis bring joy to your heart?

  9. Nancy Naive Avatar
    Nancy Naive

    Never forget that for the past 50 years, Israel has ranked in the top 5 nations conducting espionage against the United States.

    Pollard’s ain’t just good fried chicken.

    1. Lefty665 Avatar
      Lefty665

      Don’t forget the welcome home celebration in Israel for Pollard as a national hero attended by Netanyahoo and several past Mossad commanders. No chagrin at being caught spying on the hand that feeds them, but joy and adulation for the Israeli spy who subverted US national security.

      Don’t forget the 57th anniversary of the Israeli attack on the USS Liberty coming up in less than a month. Israel murdered 34 American Navy sailors & spooks and wounded 174.

      Don’t forget that today we are partners with Israel in crimes against humanity. In the last 7 months Israel has murdered about 35k Palestinian civilians. About 25k of whom were women and children.

      With friends like Israel. who needs enemies?

      1. Lefty665 Avatar
        Lefty665

        An added little joyous note for all who use Intel CPU based computers. Hope you enjoy the backdoors built into Intel CPUs and chip sets under the guise of “security” by Intel’s Israeli branch that allows both spying on and bricking your computers at Israeli or Intel’s pleasure. Note: That includes “out of band” access meaning when the computer is turned off,

      2. Nancy Naive Avatar
        Nancy Naive

        And, although never confirmed, who has nukes?

          1. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            At the turn of the century, some retired State Department officer wrote about the diamond trade, i.e., blood diamonds, in Africa. He was somehow involved in the US attempts to control, or make inroads into the funding of the wars in Africa. The funny thing about all of it was that the Israeli and Hezbollah merchants were are over the business together, and on several occasions socialized. When he asked one his contacts about how chummy they were, he was told, “What’s happening in Israel is war. This is business.”

            Peace through trade is way older than “Peace through strength”.

      3. CJBova Avatar

        War and murder are not synonymous–except to those who prefer Hamas propaganda.

        1. Lefty665 Avatar
          Lefty665

          War that kills 10s of thousands of women and children is war crimes and murder. That is currently being committed by Israel against Palestinian women and children.

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