Photo credit: New York Times

by Dick Hall-Sizemore

On at least five occasions over a four-year period, Virginia Beach police confronted suspects with fake documents that indicated the suspect had been connected to a crime through DNA evidence.

The documents were forged certificates of analysis, complete with the letterhead of the Virginia Department of Forensic Sciences and the Seal of the Commonwealth. One of the fake certificates was used in a judicial proceeding in which the defendant was denied bail.

The current police chief assumed control of the department in late 2020, after the instances in question occurred. When he learned of the use of fake certificates in April 2021, he immediately issued an order to his department prohibiting the practice.

Subsequent investigation by the Virginia Beach department of police and the Office of Civil Rights of the Virginia Attorney General’s office revealed that, out of approximately 9,600 interrogations during those four years, fake certificates were used in only five instances. From court records, it was determined by the media that two detectives were involved in at least two of those cases. Shortly before leaving office, Attorney General Mark Herring issued a report that included a “conciliation agreement” reached between his office and the Virginia Beach police department in which the department agreed not to use fake documents during the interrogation of suspects,

This summary of events is based on a series of articles published by the Virginian-Pilot found here, here, here, and here.

Delegate Jackie Glass, D-Norfolk. Photo credit: Virginian Pilot

Freshman Delegate Jackie Glass, D-Norfolk, introduced legislation (HB 1281) that would have prohibited police from using, during the interrogation of a suspect, any document containing “a false statement, signature, seal, letterhead, or contact information” or that “materially represents any fact.” The bill was killed in a 5-3 party line vote by a subcommittee of the House Courts of Justice Committee.

The Commonwealth is hardly alone in allowing police to use deceptive tactics in their interrogation of suspects. Indeed, such deception is allowed in all 50 states, although Illinois and Oregon have recently prohibited their use with juvenile suspects, and some state appeals courts, such as the Hawaiian court, are beginning to push back on some of the deceptive practices.

In his statement accompanying the issuance of his office’s report on the Virginia Beach cases, then-Attorney General Herring referred to the practice as “potentially unconstitutional.” It is not clear what he meant by that term because the courts have clearly upheld the use of deception by the police in interrogating suspects. One of the leading cases is Frazier v. Cupp, 394 U.S. 731 (1969). In an unanimous decision by the Warren Court, written by Justice Thurgood Marshall, the court ruled that the use by police of the tactic familiar to anyone who watches police dramas on TV — falsely telling a suspect that his partner has confessed and thereby eliciting a confession from the suspect being questioned — does not constitute a coerced confession.

Furthermore, there is a long line of Virginia cases in which the courts “consistently have held that a lie by a law-enforcement officer ‘does not, in and of itself, require a finding that the resulting confession was involuntary.’” See Arthur v. Commonwealth, 480 S.E. 2d 749. In Arthur, the Virginia Supreme Court dealt with a case similar to the recent cases in Virginia Beach. During an interrogation, the police had shown fabricated fingerprint and DNA reports to a suspect who ultimately confessed. In the appeal, his lawyers conceded that “a verbal lie by the police does not, in itself, invalidate a confession.” However, they contended that the use of false documents constituted a “bright line” that police must not cross. The court declined to draw that “bright line”.

It is worth noting that HB 1281 would not have prohibited all deception by the police. Rather, it would have drawn that “bright line” with respect to false documents.

There are two primary reasons why the use of deception by police can be a  problem. First, such practices can contribute to the distrust of the police in the community. Second, they can result in false confessions.

Building and maintaining community trust is important for a police department. However, nationally, trust in police is at an all-time low. In Virginia, a recent survey of residents in seven Hampton Roads cities found the following levels of trust in the police: “Great deal”—39.3 percent; “Somewhat”—40.9 percent; “Not much” or “Not at all”—19.8 percent. (“Somewhat” does not seem to be much of a vote of confidence.) In announcing his ending of the practice of using false documents in interrogations, the chief of the Virginia Beach police department explained that, although the practice had been found constitutional by the courts, it “was not in the spirit of what the community expects of the Police Department.” Even the Virginia Supreme Court, in upholding the use of fake documents, cautioned, “A deliberate falsehood by a police officer in the course of his duties may undermine the respect that significant elements of the public may have for law enforcement and the system of justice.” Wilson v. Commonwealth, 41 Sec. 2nd 655.  For a libertarian discussion of the dangers that police use of deception has on community trust and support, see here.

The popular perception is that police need to lie during interrogations because a confession is the only way to get a conviction of some who are guilty. As freshman Delegate Wren Williams, R-Patrick, was quoted by the Virginian-Pilot, “How many times has this been used to find out about a murder, find out about a rape, find out about a break in?”

Deception by the police may produce true confessions from guilty suspects. However, it may also produce false confessions from innocent suspects. Indeed, as one leading scholar and researcher of police interrogation asserts, “Experimental research indicates that false-evidence ploys are far more likely to elicit false confessions that true confessions.”

It seems counterintuitive that a person would confess to a crime that he did not commit. However, there is a large body of research into why such a phenomenon is not uncommon. (See here for a summary of that research along with citations to various studies and articles.)

A study conducted by the Innocence Project of 375 DNA exonerations found that false confessions contributed to 29% of wrongful convictions. Police deception played a significant role in the false confessions of suspects in such high-profile cases as the Central Park Five and, here in Virginia, the Norfolk Four. Beyond the well-publicized cases and the relatively few DNA exonerations, there are likely hundreds of innocent persons convicted on the basis of false confessions elicited by police deceptive tactics. As one major researcher points out, the known figures “are regarded as the very small tip of a much larger iceberg because most false confessions and wrongful convictions are invisible —impossible to locate, document, or prove.”

In his comments in the subcommittee in opposition to HB 1281, Del. Williams asked, “Aren’t we supposed to be using the justice system to make it just for our victims?” The answer is that the role of the justice system is to provide justice for victims and for those accused of crimes.


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Comments

69 responses to “Should It Be OK For The Police To Lie?”

  1. Dick raises good questions here. There are no simple right-and-wrong answers.

    We can all agree to draw a bright line when it comes to admitting false evidence in a court of law. That is absolutely impermissible. But presenting false evidence to extract a confession? There are shades of gray. To what extent are policemen allowed to bluff criminal suspects into making them think they know more than they in fact do? If it’s not permissible to present faked documents, it is impermissible to make other kinds of representations, such as, “fess up, your buddy already ratted you out”? Where do we draw the line? Is law enforcement allowed to fudge the truth at all in interrogations?

    1. Nancy Naive Avatar
      Nancy Naive

      False confessions maybe. Of course, in the good ol’ days we had bright lights and rubber hoses.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar

        well.. they do it ALL THE TIME on Law & Order!

        😉

    2. Why isn’t forging a state document, in and of itself, illegal?

      Lies are one one thing, but forged documents would seem to be another. If an average person forged a state document, it would be a criminal offense. Is illegality not a bright line?

      1. LarrytheG Avatar

        I agree. This seems to be over the line to me.

      2. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
        Dick Hall-Sizemore

        Forging a document in order to obtain a personal benefit, falsify your identity, or engage in a legal transaction such as a contract is a crime.

        Police cannot knowingly submit a forged document as evidence in a trial. (The forged document that was a factor in the Va. Beach bail hearing apparently was just in the file and the magistrate unknowingly relied upon it. The police did not formally submit it as evidence.)

        As I pointed out, courts have upheld the use of forged documents by police in the interrogation of suspects.

        1. Yes, you did, and it was an enlightening post.

          I was asking a rhetorical question and suggesting illegality by the average person should be a good starting point for the bright line.

      3. Nancy Naive Avatar
        Nancy Naive

        It used to be a bright linel but all that changed between November 2020 and January 6, 2021. Like, falsifying elector documents isn’t voter fraud.

      4. I agree. I have no problem with the police verbally lying to suspects during the interrogation/interview process, but I think we should draw that “bright line” at ginning-up false official documents.

    3. LarrytheG Avatar

      well again. if the person has a GOOD lawyer who knows the law and knows LEO practices, then he/she is protected. The problems come when people don’t have a lawyer or a good lawyer and are blind to what LEO can do.

      We’ve had problems in Virginia with the state Forensic Lab also… yet another reason for the accused to be allowed to have a 3rd party deliver a second opinion.

  2. Eric the half a troll Avatar
    Eric the half a troll

    Never talk to the police… for anything…. ever… no matter what they say…

    1. Nancy Naive Avatar
      Nancy Naive

      This Regent University law professor agrees…
      https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE

      1. energyNOW_Fan Avatar
        energyNOW_Fan

        Gift of gab for that guy, should be Gov

        1. Nancy Naive Avatar
          Nancy Naive

          Yeah, reminds me of a mix of Jeopardy guy, Ken Jennings, with Joe Isuzu.

    2. how_it_works Avatar
      how_it_works

      4 magic words:

      “I don’t answer questions.”

      1. Nancy Naive Avatar
        Nancy Naive

        I can name that song with two words, “Google it.”

  3. VaPragamtist Avatar
    VaPragamtist

    “Though this practice during interrogations has consistently been found to be constitutional by both the Virginia Supreme Court and the United States Supreme Court”

    I’d be curious to know what SCOVA and SOCTUS cases VBPD is referencing. I’m not a lawyer, but even to a layman it seems pretty clear-cut:

    PD telling a lie to gain a confession is OK.

    Fabricating official documents (complete with seal, letterhead, and signature), crosses the line.

    Submitting fabricated evidence to the court is (or should be) itself criminal conduct.

    1. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
      Dick Hall-Sizemore

      Submitting fabricated evidence to a court is criminal conduct. There is no dispute about that.

      As for the VA and US cases, I cited them in my post, along with links.

      By the way, the five members of the Courts of Justice subcommittee did not think the issue was that clear-cut and submitting fabricated official state documents crossed any line.

  4. tmtfairfax Avatar

    Now what about the argument from the Left that SCOTUS decisions should be followed?

    It is constitutional for the police to lie. But when a person is in police custody and ready for interrogation, the police must provide the suspect with a Miranda Warning. At which point, the suspect can demand counsel and refuse to speak to the police. And the suspect can invoke his 5th Amendment rights at any time. Once a person invokes these rights, the interrogation must stop. If it doesn’t, nothing the suspect says from that point on can be used against him.

    If it works, don’t fix it.

    Moreover, a suspect’s confession must be corroborated by evidence in most states. As I recall, in the others, there must be evidence that the confession is inherently reliable. These protections provide a guard against false confessions but do not guarantee against them. That’s why we have motion practice before trial courts and appellate courts.

    Most frequent flyers understand Eric’s counsel and don’t say anything to the police.

    1. LarrytheG Avatar

      Well, like I said. If any/all who are interrogated, ask for a lawyer from the get go – the lying will not be a practice.

      The reality is that the lying is used on folks who are ignorant of the law and their rights , hardly an honorable thing for the police to do to start with when they do this.

      This goes to the heart of “equity” in my view.

      1. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
        Dick Hall-Sizemore

        Also, suspects who are really innocent a lot of times do not think they need a lawyer. After all, they didn’t do it. Also, they may think that asking for a lawyer constitutes an admission of guilt, or, at least, they have something to hide. Then they get hit with false evidence and panic.

        1. LarrytheG Avatar

          that’s even more treacherous… no?

          I see your logic, but history tells us the police – and prosecutors DO put innocent people in prison. Being innocent AND gullible WILL get you prison sometimes.

        2. tmtfairfax Avatar

          If we are talking about a person who clearly has diminished mental capacity, we need special rules. But adults are responsible for their own choices. We need the police to follow the rules, which include giving a person in custody a Miranda Warning and asking whether the person understands it. And now most interviews for serious crimes are universally taped.

          And keep in mind that committing a crime does not mean the person has no conscience. A number of people confess what they did because they cannot bear the internal guilt.

    2. Nancy Naive Avatar
      Nancy Naive

      “Moreover, a suspect’s confession must be corroborated by evidence in most states. ”

      How about this one? And, let’s not forget the Norfolk Four.

    3. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
      Dick Hall-Sizemore

      There is nothing in the SCOTUS decisions that would prohibit a state from enacting a law prohibiting law enforcement from using deceptive measures during interrogations. They did not say that police have a right to use such measures. They held only that their use does not, in and of itself, make any resultant confession a coerced confession.

      As for corroboration, often, when a suspect protests his innocence and initially refuses to confess, the police can, and do, “feed” him details about the crime that, if the suspect finally provides a confession, which is false, those details are included and thus can be corroborated.

  5. walter smith Avatar
    walter smith

    Should it be OK for anybody to lie?
    The Supreme Court has allowed it. I’m ambivalent. Criminals lie. If they will murder someone, lying wouldn’t seem to be too big a hurdle.
    Two suspects and playing the suspects against each other – prisoner’s dilemma? I think that is OK…
    Again, going back to public disapprobation for lying (you know, before all the rules were thrown out to keep Slick Willie in office) would be good. Even SlowJoe had to drop out for his plagiarizing Kinnock and Gary Hartpence – maybe if our media had shame for lying…or UVA… still celebrating Bob Mueller as the RUSSIA lies go deeper and deeper.

    1. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
      Dick Hall-Sizemore

      If you are going to use Democrats as examples, e.g. Clinton and Biden, why not include the former President, as well?

      1. walter smith Avatar
        walter smith

        Name his lies. Let’s agree on what a lie is first.
        My definition, the one before it was changed to help Democrats, like the vaccine definition, is to intentionally say something you know not to be true.
        People can be mistaken in good faith. If I say UVA beat High Point in lacrosse yesterday 12-10, when it was really 11-10 and I had no intent to deceive, that’s not a lie.
        It was a mistake. If I knew it was 11-10 and said 12-10 intending to deceive you, that’s a lie.
        I’m good with calling a lie a lie by anyone, but let’s not just do OrangeMan. How about 4 years of Russia, while you’re at it. Or mostly peaceful protests. I wasn’t picking on those two guys because they were Dems necessarily, I was remembering the last times where politicians paid the price for lying.

        1. LarrytheG Avatar

          OrangeMan does not lie but Dems do?

          lord.

          you’re also confusing politicians who lie versus ordinary citizens not receiving justice. SOME criminals DO lie but other innocents do not but the justification is that it’s “okay” become SOME do lie.
          Nope. That’s WRONG!

          And no, no one else who was POTUS tried to subvert our elections and even GOP folks know it even if they won’t admit it.

          1. walter smith Avatar
            walter smith

            Larry – as usual, you are off in your own world
            I didn’t say OMB didn’t lie. I defined what I think is lying, and then I said lying is bad.
            I also said I was ambivalent on the police… It’s legal. But does that make it right? (You know Larry, like the Dem sacrament of abortion – does being legal (by Court decree and not by a legislature like it should be, if at all) make it OK)
            I can see playing prisoner’s dilemma. I can see bluffing with liars. If you are innocent, you should have nothing to fear.
            But this all goes to basic integrity – it’s why we need DAs (Commonwealth Attorneys) who are honest and insist upon finding truth. We pretty much don’t have that in many areas. Abuses of prosecutorial discretion and abuses of overcharging to force a guilty plea. It should be about justice.
            So quit being the Dem canary you are…
            Is lying by any politician bad?
            Is lying by any government bureaucrat bad?
            Is lying by anyone in a position of power bad?
            (This is a trick question for Dems, because lying is A OK to advance your ends, like rioting, and like a virus knows not to spread when when rioting for BLM)

            And Larry – you obviously haven’t gotten the news about the latest Durham revelations have you?
            Russia was a hoax. Russia was the insurrection. Done by your team Larry. Projection much?
            Did you read the March 4 Time article bragging about how a bunch of Left organizations “fortified” the election?
            If you are so sure nothing untoward happened, why not let a real audit take place so everyone can trust the results?
            (Because a real audit will reveal the level of cheating everywhere. I think no cheating should be allowed, anywhere. Don’t you? And don’t even start with suppressing the vote. If you are a citizen registered to vote where you live, you get to vote. But only once. Like a ticket to the Super Bowl – why can’t I just show up and get in?)

          2. LarrytheG Avatar

            No Dem did what idiot Trump did… ever – period.

            And people DID go to jail over the Russia thing. People in Trump administration were illegally meeting with Russians

            And the thing is guy, you are all over the map here. EVERYTHING goes back to all these issues… listen to yourself. Virtually every response is a diatribe.

          3. walter smith Avatar
            walter smith

            Seriously Larry. You are demented. Illegally meeting with Russians? When was meeting with anybody illegal? Have you read nothing in the last 5 years showing how it was all bogus? And then this Friday’s Durham filing showing that Hillary spied on Trump pre and post election…
            The insurrection was done by Hillary and government apparatchiks…

          4. LarrytheG Avatar

            So , you’re just totally over the top Walter. No sense in discussing with you. Really. I’m not sure where you are headed since you are clearly hard, hard right and most of the country – even the GOP is not that way.
            so the elections are probably not going to suit you no matter what. Right?

          5. walter smith Avatar
            walter smith

            No – I want honest elections, don’t you?
            Have to show ID to fly
            To enter a federal courthouse
            Have a ticket to go to the Super Bowl
            Have a ticket to see the movie
            See the pattern?

          6. LarrytheG Avatar

            Yeah, we might agree on that but likely not much else… you are are far, far right guy, right?

        2. Eric the half a troll Avatar
          Eric the half a troll

          You want a documented lie of Trump? Similar to Clinton’s infamous lie, in April 2018 Trump answering a question from reporters about whether he knew about a payment to porn star Stephanie Clifford, who uses the stage name Stormy Daniels, with a flat “no.”. This was a straight up lie. One of many.

          1. Matt Adams Avatar

            The difference being, that while Trump lied he didn’t do so in a court of Law. Thereby subjecting himself to “perjury” and “obstruction of justice charges”.

          2. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            You are correct. “Similar” does not mean “equivalent” though and I was responding to Walter’s challenge of “Name his lies.” referring to Trump.

          3. Matt Adams Avatar

            You’re clearly correct, the only statement I have is Trump took lies to a new latitude for certain, but for the most part POTUS’s can be liberal with the truth. They have Press Secretaries who are paid to tailor the narrative to best suit the Administration.

          4. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            Some things never change. Maybe the ideas of politicians lying in performance of their job is not so far removed from police doing the same. They both make the argument that even though they are eroding the public trust in doing so, they believe they are justified by some greater good. In the case of cops, that greater good is arguable… seems to be more of a stretch for politicians in office. The real problem though is the slippery slope….

          5. walter smith Avatar
            walter smith

            Yes. And that affects America in a substantive way…how? How come SlowJoe wasn’t asked about Tara Reade? Believe All Womyn (unless they accuse a D)
            And I thought SlickWillie and Moveon established forever that sex is a private matter….
            How about lying about Russia, every day, Eric Swalwell and Mark Warner, who had access to the actual intelligence? Warner at least stopped when it became clear there was nothing there.
            So, are we in agreement that lying is bad, when done by all politicians?

    2. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
      Dick Hall-Sizemore

      If you are going to use Democrats as examples (Clinton, Biden) what happened to the biggest purveyor lies of them all–the Donald?

  6. James Wyatt Whitehead Avatar
    James Wyatt Whitehead

    Sounds like a good bill. Clearly needed. Whoever authorized those 5 cases should be shown the door. I am with the police that are more like the super friends.
    https://cdn.flickeringmyth.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/super-friends-legion-of-doom-600×313.jpg

  7. LarrytheG Avatar

    I wanna hear from the folks who traditionally are viewed as “Law & Order” types. Is lying and falsification a “good” thing for the police to known by?

  8. LarrytheG Avatar

    Part of this is a basic issue of whether or not the person being interrogated has a good lawyer… or not. A good lawyer knows that the police CAN do this and they also suspect when the police might be lying or falsifying information.

    The “trust” factor causes a lot of people to simply not trust law enforcement.

    Perhaps the new AG might address this issue when he frees up from his “duties” in Loudoun?

    1. James McCarthy Avatar
      James McCarthy

      Sorry, but the issue relates to the period when the suspect does not have an attorney.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar

        You’re entitled to an attorney when you are taken into custody, no?

        A person with an lawyer on retainer would likely have the lawyer show up and inform the police that unless his/her client is charged, they are leaving and from that point on – ALL questions are directed to the attorney, not the client.

        A person without a lawyer, may well not realize they could leave without answering questions.

        This is the problem. Those with lawyers know their rights under the law and hold the police to the legal line of conduct and those without, do not and are vulnerable to misconduct by the police.

  9. Nancy Naive Avatar
    Nancy Naive

    Dash cams, body cams, and citizen cellphones are giving us a real glimpse into the numbers of sociopaths in the police.

  10. Nancy Naive Avatar
    Nancy Naive

    Hey! Here’s an idea. Let’s let the cops falsify evidence, and lie during interrogations, but… and here’s the novelty… let’s teach a HS course that explains how cops do this. Oh, and make sure that everyone knows that you do not have to consent to a search of your car, but that it doesn’t matter since they will bring a dog that they will say “alerted”. Four legged probable cause.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9587301/Police-dog-sniffed-drugs-traffic-stop-officers-narcotics-29.html

    1. Eric the half a troll Avatar
      Eric the half a troll

      99 problems…

  11. Nancy Naive Avatar
    Nancy Naive

    Hampton PD pulls detective off missing toddler case for failing to end interrogations when suspect requests attorney.

    1. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
      Dick Hall-Sizemore

      That is a different issue. The U.S. Supreme Court has said that the police must stop questioning after a suspect says he wants a lawyer.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar

        and that’s what every one of them should do given the fact that the police can legally lie to them.

      2. Nancy Naive Avatar
        Nancy Naive

        Yes, and no. This is all part and parcel of a breakdown in professionalism.

      3. Nancy Naive Avatar
        Nancy Naive

        Apparently they also lied (considered okay) about polygraph results, which brings the question that if these polygraphs are such great investigative tools, then why lie about the results?

        You don’t get many phi beta kappas in the PDs. With no one to police the police but the police, the geniuses take over.

        1. how_it_works Avatar
          how_it_works

          There was actually a court case that upheld the right of police departments to discriminate against applicants that score too well on an aptitude test.

          1. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            Connecticut, I believe. He scored 100% on the employment tests and had a genius level IQ. The PD in question said he was too smart for police work.

            Apparently, they are correct.

          2. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            Anyone who is an authoritarian midwit is a shoe-in for police work. The military is full of people like this.

          3. LarrytheG Avatar

            uh.. um… okay.. this might explain a lot…with respect to recent events…

          4. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            There are four reasons to be a cop. It’s a calling, like the priesthood, to be of help. It’s the family business; my father was a cop and his father was a cop. It’s a job; just in it for the money or just until something else comes up. For small number, it’s an opportunity to bully and kill with impunity.

          5. That last reason is the first line in every BLM/Antifa vacancy notice

          6. LarrytheG Avatar

            just an aside. Got called for Jury Duty and the defense was relentless in their challenges – ANYONE who had a college degree was thrown out!

          7. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
            Dick Hall-Sizemore

            That’s strange that the defense would want to dismiss those with college degrees.

          8. LarrytheG Avatar

            it may depend on the circumstances but in this case, it was clear the defense favored jurors who
            did not have college degrees as one by one, those with them got tossed.

  12. Matt Hurt Avatar

    I think it all boils down to this question. With how many innocent citizens jailed are we comfortable in order to lock up as many truly guilty criminals as possible? Blackstone in his famous formulation reckoned that “It is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer”. Ben Franklin was credited with taking it one step further- “it is better 100 guilty Persons should escape than that one innocent Person should suffer”.

    Also, when considering this, it is probably best to put one’s self in the position of the defendant. Think about the cop who gets a feather in his cap for taking a “criminal” off the street, and gets paid the same whether the “criminal” was truly guilty or not. Think about the DA who has ambitions for higher office who will go to great lengths to add one to his win column to bolster his “tough on crime” or “tough on x” record.

    Please also consider the political hyperpolarization and how politicized many issues have become. Let’s say that you find yourself in a jurisdiction which holds political beliefs opposite yours, and you become indicated in some act that your opponents find antithetical to their political well being. The state has a great deal of power which has been shown can bury legitimately innocent people.

    The protections afforded us in the US and VA Constitutions are only applicable when folks are amenable to applying them. We have so many examples of different examples of elected officials and unelected bureaucrats flaunting those protections because they think they can get by with it. Unfortunately, many have gotten by with it.

    1. LarrytheG Avatar

      So many things now days, people want bright-line rules but the world is much more nuanced in reality and just not so simple.

      Like – how many cop killers would you let “go free” for a wrongful shoplifting conviction? I know, that’s silly but it demonstrates that the 1 go free for 10 guilty is not such a simple calculation as it seems, just saying it on the front end without consideration of the crimes involved.

      And I would further posit that it’s simply not acceptable that any innocent person is deprived of their freedom or worse, killed because our system actually failed to accord and insure equal protections and directly because of that, it then led to a wrongful conviction. That’s not right.

      The idea that this could happen and that it’s “okay” because we would then utter the symbolic 10 go free pablum while the innocent are on their way to lockup… or execution is offensive to me.

      Not for me. Not when we can identify how people were wrongfully convicted in the first place, and we STILL refuse to change the law so that can’t happen again in the future.

      Our legal system is adversarial on purpose, but it is also premised on the accused having the same “equal” protections under the law no matter their finances, and that clearly is not the case in our current day criminal justice system.

      Too many times misconduct has played too much of a role and our response is not to fix it but to cite the 1 for 10 symbolism.

      We need to fix it. Don’t allow misconduct and when it occurs – full accountability, no excuses because you’re a cop.

  13. The FBI has been doing this since its founding….. and look how great it is.

  14. James McCarthy Avatar
    James McCarthy

    The article is spot on and raises all appropriate issues. Excellent piece. Interrogation by definition relates to questioning not involving convincing a suspect of “knowledge” in the hands of the police. Documents forged to buttress verbal questioning is, as several comments note, over the bright line. Photoshopped videos of suspects are a logical next step. Recall the Tom Cruise movie.

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