Secular Authoritarian Religions Disgrace Virginia’s Left and Right

Russian crowd control

by James C. Sherlock

America’s freedoms, guaranteed by its Bill of Rights and its three-branch government, have been the keys to America’s success since its founding.

Individual freedoms, protected, unleashed the creativity of hundreds of millions of citizens to make America the most dominant nation in the history of the world.

Broadly common moral standards have sustained support for that government. As moral standards evolved, with new concepts of morality emerging from the churches, America’s constitution and laws changed with them.

America has defined evil within Judeo-Christian traditions. As other religions began to be represented in America, they brought with them many of the same understandings of right and wrong.

We have struck democratic agreements that are lasting because they have attained sufficiently balanced support. Our violent rupture, the Civil War, was fought to extend freedom and succeeded in doing so.

Our laws have not always been just, but opposition to unjust laws generally began in the churches and attained majority approval. The great civil rights movement in the 1950’s and 60’s marched out of churches into history.

All of this is changing with the precipitous decline of traditional religion in American life. This decline has created a vacuum into which extremists, both left and right, have stepped with new secular religions of their own design.

They are not interested in compromise.

Since the 1960’s, virulent strains on the left and right have thought to protect America by removing those freedoms, seeking authoritarian rather than democratic solutions to problems as defined by them.

They do not think bipartisanship is worth pursuing, finding the other side immoral as they define morality. They are absolutists.

The progressive left. I have written here a lot about authoritarianism on the left that, from its base in Northern Virginia, captured Virginia politics to take over the governorship and then, briefly, the General Assembly.

Their program was informed by a new civic religion based on race and radical environmentalism. It attacked at the roots of American civic society, public education.

It offered changes not meant to improve the lives of the poor, but rather to make the wealthy feel better about themselves.

It has rejected traditional religion, proved fiercely activist, and brooked no inputs from the center or right. In doing so, it utterly ignored traditionalists in Virginia, including rural Virginians and traditionalist parents. That wound up costing the Virginia left the last election.

The radical left is still there, awaiting its next chance, hoping that its base in Northern Virginia, bloated by the expansion of the federal government, will regain power.

The Putin right. But we have recently seen the emergence of a new political lodestar on the right, Putinism, It has slithered onto the pages of this blog.

Putinism has been characterized in Russia as:

…the stage where … the bourgeoisie throws the flag of the democratic freedoms and the human rights overboard.

Both the far left and the far right in Virginia sign up to that tactical approach, but seek different outcomes.

Putin is admired by edges of the far right in America; he is characterized as a man with traditional moral values (you cannot make that up), a church-going man who keeps public appetites for unmanageable freedoms at bay with strict authoritarianism.

The fact that the church he attends is led by a former KGB asset makes ex-KGB Colonel Putin especially comfortable.

A small American swamp contains people who find his invasion of Ukraine to be the internal business of Russia, an operation of no note to America. They consider Ukrainian resistance to be the cause of Ukrainian deaths, not the scorched earth tactics of the Russians.

The fact that victory there will, by Mr. Putin’s own words, be just a waypoint on the way to reestablishing the boundaries of the old Soviet Union is ignored or applauded.

Surely this cannot be, you say.

Read the comments below my column Lessons in Education, Democracy and Western Civilization from a Great Man.  A sample:

Zelensky is a puppet and tool of the neo-con and neo-liberal elites who are running our crusade against Russia that we will pursue to the last Ukrainian. There is nothing great about him, he is an actor playing a role scripted for him by British and US propagandists.

More Ukrainians are killed each day than in all the mass shootings in the US in a year. To paraphrase our president, when in God’s name will we stop sending more guns to the Ukraine?

If we spent the $40B just appropriated for the Ukraine on mental health and school security we could keep own kids from being killed and would not facilitate killing Ukrainian kids.

How do you like shilling for Nazis and monsters who are willing to kill their own people in a scheme to blame Russia?

Ukrainian (charges of) Russian rape(s) debunked. (Emphasis added)

Like the Nazi apologists before WWII, this ultra right fever will not gain many followers but can do much harm. The fevers of the left have attracted more admirers.

The public expression of such sentiments, as long as they are peaceful, are allowed under our constitution.

And should be.

That, like the rest of the liberal traditions of western democracy, is what separates the majority of Virginians from the left and right fringes.


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85 responses to “Secular Authoritarian Religions Disgrace Virginia’s Left and Right”

  1. DJRippert Avatar
    DJRippert

    “I have written here a lot about authoritarianism on the left that, from its base in Northern Virginia, captured Virginia politics to take over the governorship and then, briefly, the General Assembly.”

    You keep making the same mistake. You think that the left only has a concentration in Northern Virginia.

    In the last governor’s race:

    Henrico County:

    McAuliffe – 58.71%
    Younkin – 40.24%

    Loudoun County:

    McAuliffe – 55.14%
    Youngkin – 44.08%

    1. James C. Sherlock Avatar
      James C. Sherlock

      I count Loudoun as Northern Virginia. Even did when I grew up in Falls Church.

      I don’t know Henrico very well, but I suspect it is nearly as politically impacted by state government employees and contractors as is Northern Virginia with their counterparts serving the federal government.

      But that is just a guess on my part.

      1. DJRippert Avatar
        DJRippert

        I count Loudoun as part of Norther Virginia too.

        Henrico is a mystery to me. It was a very conservative suburb not too long ago. Very quickly, it flipped from red to blue. I guess Bacon and Haner aren’t browbeating their neighbors sufficiently.

      2. Lefty665 Avatar
        Lefty665

        I grew up in Falls Church too. Funny I don’t remember you in school there, the system was not that big. I was in the class of ’64 what were you, and did you attend George Mason HS?

        1. James C. Sherlock Avatar
          James C. Sherlock

          Class of ’62 Gonzaga College High School in D.C. Class of ’66 UVa.

          1. YellowstoneBound1948 Avatar
            YellowstoneBound1948

            Class of ’66, W. T. Woodson, H.S., Fairfax. A lot more guys here are in their 70s than I realized.

          2. Lefty665 Avatar
            Lefty665

            Surprising how many of us escaped NoVa. I spent years going back thinking that life didn’t really exist outside the Beltway. Then one day the light bulb went on.

          3. YellowstoneBound1948 Avatar
            YellowstoneBound1948

            It’s funny, so did I. For 20 years I tried to find work there, and I was even offered a 30% bonus in salary if I would relocate there. I am so thankful I found the bucolic green hills of Tennessee. Davy Crockett was right!

          4. Lefty665 Avatar
            Lefty665

            So you commuted to Gonzaga? Explains why you weren’t very visible around Falls Church. I was at RPI/VCU B school. I lived near 7 Corners, you?

      3. YellowstoneBound1948 Avatar
        YellowstoneBound1948

        A good guess, I should think. I live in Nashville, the Tennessee capitol, where thousands of government employees work. The county is blue, but not deep blue. The state, however, is a different story: 26 of 33 senators, and 75 of 99 state reps, with the GOP holding both majorities.

    2. WayneS Avatar

      And:

      Albemarle County:
      McAuliffe – 62.05%
      Youngkin – 37.21%

      City of Charlottesville:
      McAuliffe – 82.85%
      Youngkin – 15.55%

    3. WayneS Avatar

      Also,

      City of Norfolk:
      McAuliffe – 67.14%
      Younkin – 31.45%

      City of Portsmouth:
      McAuliffe – 65.41%
      Youngkin – 33.34%

      City of Richmond:
      McAuliffe – 77.27%
      Younkin – 19.61%

      City of Newport News:
      McAuliffe – 59.69%
      Youngkin – 37.14%

      City of Hampton:
      McAuliffe – 66.45%
      Youngkin – 32.48%

      1. Lefty665 Avatar
        Lefty665

        With all those urban and suburban majorities it certainly surprised McAuliffe that Youngkin won the election. McAuliffe did his part to help determine the outcome, and the Dems in Congress didn’t help either.

  2. walter smith Avatar
    walter smith

    I do not think it is fair to describe opposition to being involved in the Ukraine as “Putinism.” That is a lazy argument, like preaching gun control after every mass shooting.
    Why is it that Putin gets adventurous when we have Dem presidents? Has Biden’s climate change stupidity enriched Putin? Did his bungled withdrawal from Afghanistan encourage him? Which border is more important to Americans? The 2 million invading on the Southern border or Ukraine’s?
    Do we have problems in the US that might be more immediately addressed?
    If Biden really wanted to hurt Putin, wouldn’t re-opening domestic oil and gas production really hurt him?
    Why don’t we get rid of the gangs terrorizing the inner cities? Why don’t we get serious about fentanyl and opioids? Charter schools? Why are there higher levels of suicidal ideation in youth when they are living in abundance (the lack of religious grounding is the most obvious answer)?
    America is in crisis, right here right now. The rule of law is under attack. Two sets of “justice” exist in DC. Inflation is approaching Jimmy Carter levels (my Starbucks 18 oz House Blend at Walmart has gone from $9.88, to $11.12 to $13.24, an 18 pack of Extra Large eggs went from $2.94 to $4.50 and I think most recently was $3.63, a 3 lb bag of Cuties was $7.37, when I last bought it for $3.99). Gas is near $5. I believe our attention would be much better spent right here. And the single act of opening up our oil and gas would help Americans and hurt Putin. That is not “Putinism.”

    1. James C. Sherlock Avatar
      James C. Sherlock

      Pacifism is a right and is value based. I don’t characterize all of those opposed to involvement in Ukraine as Putinists, only those who reveal themselves unmistakably to be in their own words.

      1. walter smith Avatar
        walter smith

        Thank you. I didn’t think you meant fully what I read. However, I don’t think pacifism is accurate either. I just don’t see a compelling US national interest when the country is in tatters. I’m all for using military force when it is necessary, and then – no more Viet Nams or 20 year wars – go in to win, decisively. WWII, not the namby pamby political waste of my lifetime.

        1. James C. Sherlock Avatar
          James C. Sherlock

          I agree that the U.S. should not commit itself to a war that it is ambivalent about winning. But I also must admit that I don’t understand your words: “I just don’t see a compelling US national interest when the country is in tatters”. But I’ll let that go.

          But in this case, we are not engaged in warfare with Russia. Ukraine is because it was attacked. We are giving Ukraine what they need to defend themselves.

          We are helping people who have been brutally invaded without even a pretext other than Putin thinks Ukraine belongs to Russia. And is willing to kill tens of thousands of Russians and Ukrainians to make that happen.

          Ukrainians are defending themselves. In the process they are keeping the Russians from the borders of four NATO member countries that Putin also covets. They have in the process already destroyed a third of the front line troops and modern conventional equipment of the Russian army.

          I find both to be in U.S. and NATO vital interests.

          It is fine to disagree whether or not you have a vision of what comes next if Ukraine loses. But I recommend you think about it.

          1. walter smith Avatar
            walter smith

            We just disagree. I guess I would be more RealPolitik as opposed to world policeman. Probably knowing what my oldest brother lived through in Viet Nam makes me highly skeptical. Brother 2 got 4F. I was 2 years too young, but believed I would go if it came to that.
            And I think we are engaged in war with Russia. The sanctions, the supplying Ukraine, letting our “allies” still buy oil from Russia. Open our markets and rob Putin of the reserves we are giving him at the expense of Americans. Biden’s loose language doesn’t help either.

          2. James C. Sherlock Avatar
            James C. Sherlock

            What is your position if the Russians win, take over Ukraine and bring four new NATO countries on Russia’s border. Putin has clearly stated on multiple occasions that he considers those countries, like Ukraine, within Russia’s required sphere of control. It is a reasonable question.

          3. walter smith Avatar
            walter smith

            Then if that is your fear, get in a real war and go in to win. Of course, we wouldn’t be here without the weakness and global stupidity of Biden. And maybe then our “allies” would get serious and build their militaries and quit buying Russian oil.
            So if this is in the US vital national interests, then let’s have a declaration of war after a debate. I don’t like Biden’s escalation and certainly don’t trust him to wage war, unless we intend to reverse infect Russia with wokism and Pride Month for its military.
            So let’s have Joe Biden make the case and a debate and a declaration of war, not this grey zone and just throwing money we don’t have at a corrupt country. Yes it has been invaded. Yes that is “wrong.” But I am not convinced the $53 billion of money we don’t have is properly spent including how many billions has Biden already subsidized Putin with his insane oil and gas policies. Inflation. Fertilizer prices. Food shortages. The “sale” has not been made for me.

          4. James C. Sherlock Avatar
            James C. Sherlock

            I won’t defend Mr. Biden, Walter. But you may wish to reconsider your position that the United States needs a declaration war to help Ukraine feed its people and defend itself when we are not engaging the armed forces of this country in its defense. I think you may have gone farther there than you meant to do.

            Also remember that Mr. Biden did not act alone. The contributions of arms and money were authorized and appropriated by very large bi-partisan majorities in the Congress. That is our representative government acting, not just the President. Some certainly do not agree with that result, but it is from our republican system.

            Inflation in the United States has domestic origins. Too much federal “COVID” money chasing too few goods and the Biden decision to suppress the domestic petroleum industry as his primary domestic policy initiative. Both worked exactly as any informed person knew they would. The left considers them features, not bugs.

            Finally, fertilizer and food shortages in Europe and Africa are the results of the Russian invasion, not the Ukrainian defense against that invasion.

          5. walter smith Avatar
            walter smith

            We just see it differently. I want NATO to have skin in the game and our illustrious leaders to get serious and quit spending money like drunken sailors. The single most effective thing would be opening US oil back up. Prices go down and help Americans (will lower inflation already loosed from drunken sailor Covid spending) AND will lower Russian money to wage war. Then the NATO countries get serious about their own defense, and quit buying from Russia. But half in, half out, making Russia rich while imposing sanctions (for which black markets will always exist) and unnecessarily making Americans poor…I’m not buying. And Congress is broken. We haven’t had a budget for years. Public company CEOs have to certify financials and are subject to clawbacks, while these bozos get paid (and a pension!) for spending us into bankruptcy. They should not get paid for no budget.

          6. Lefty665 Avatar
            Lefty665

            Fasten your seat belt. The Dems are in a box in November. 32 are not running for re-election and the Repubs are picking up a half dozen seats through redistricting. There are no prospects for any of our problems to get better between now and then and Biden is down to 28% approval in Ohio.

            What is left for the Dems other than war, apple pie, don’t change horses in the middle of a stream and Putin is the devil incarnate? You can see they have already brainwashed Sherlock.

            The high accuracy missile systems we just announced we are supplying the Ukraine are a likely vehicle. They have a potential range of 300 miles although the initial supply will have a 48 mile range.

            If after Labor Day the Ukrainians mysteriously come up with 300 mile missiles and shoot them deep into Russia the Russians could respond broadly. Boom. Once again we have achieved our objective.

            Every day I wake up grateful WW3 has not started yet, and renew my fears that the neocons and warmorons will figure out how to start it. October 1962 is in my dreams but this time we are on the wrong side.

          7. Lefty665 Avatar
            Lefty665

            “I just don’t see a compelling US national interest when the country is in tatters”. But I’ll let that go.

            Well that’s a mistake. The US has NO strategic interest in the Ukraine. The Russians on the other hand do, it is directly on their border.

            The Russians have undoubtedly suffered losses, and likely more than they expected. War plans are always OBE (overtaken by events). But you’re a fool if you believe the Ukrainian propaganda on Russian losses.

          8. James C. Sherlock Avatar
            James C. Sherlock

            Got it.

    2. YellowstoneBound1948 Avatar
      YellowstoneBound1948

      You are correct, sir. The word “Putinism” does not even belong in the conversation. There were Americans that opposed our Lend-Lease program prior to our entering WW II. No one accused them of “Hitlerism.” Everyone needs to take a deep breath here.

    3. Lefty665 Avatar
      Lefty665

      Remember that we count inflation differently than we did back then. I saw the other day that today’s inflation calculated as it was in ’79-’82 would be over 15%. That feels about right compared to my memory of back then.

      And the single act of opening up our oil and gas would help Americans and hurt Putin. That would be a twofer. But nah, it ain’t green enough. We’d rather drain the strategic petroleum reserve and tell people we’re in a wonderful “transition” to green Nirvana instead. Go figure.

  3. Ronnie Chappell Avatar
    Ronnie Chappell

    I wonder how many of the Putin supporting / anti-Ukranian comments appearing under articles published on this blog are the work of Moscow-based misinformation specialists employed by the Russian government?

  4. James McCarthy Avatar
    James McCarthy

    The unspoken issue is the imposition of religious doctrine or theology upon all members of a society. Abolition of the death penalty in VA did not occur upon the appearance of the stone tablets.

    1. James C. Sherlock Avatar
      James C. Sherlock

      Neither did actively causing 6-year olds to question their genders.

  5. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
    Dick Hall-Sizemore

    One could also describe the determination of a local school board member to view policy through a “biblical lens” as a version of religious authoritarianism.

    1. vicnicholls Avatar
      vicnicholls

      If someone viewed something thru a Quranic lens, it doesn’t mean they wouldn’t come to the same conclusion. I find Muslims, as a whole, on general, to be more conservative than Christians.

    2. James C. Sherlock Avatar
      James C. Sherlock

      The founding documents were written through a biblical lens.

      1. Nancy Naive Avatar
        Nancy Naive

        The DoI was written to refute the biblical lens.

      2. Nancy Naive Avatar
        Nancy Naive

        You’ll have difficulty backing that up in light of the Treaty of Tripoli.

        1. YellowstoneBound1948 Avatar
          YellowstoneBound1948

          The Treaty of Tripoli is not a governing document, nor is it organic law. Dude,you know that.

          1. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            Well funny thing about treaties, once ratified and signed, like a Bill, they become law… until some idiot President breaks them. I’m thinking Bush and ABM.

          2. Lefty665 Avatar
            Lefty665

            We’ve broken 3 or 4 arms control treaties now. It’s part of why the Russians say we are not agreement capable.

          3. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            The US has never signed a treaty it won’t break… ask the Cherokee.

      3. YellowstoneBound1948 Avatar
        YellowstoneBound1948

        James, I spent a year studying the Old and New Testaments as classical works. I recall that just about everyone in the field held the position that our governing documents were heavily influenced by the Pentateuch and the Decalogue.

  6. Eric the half a troll Avatar
    Eric the half a troll

    “Our laws have not always been just, but opposition to unjust laws generally began in the churches and attained majority approval.”

    For as many unjust laws that faced opposition in the church there are easily as many that saw their birth, propagation and social justification there. There is nothing special about so-called Judeo-Christian morals or ethics – they have done as much harm as good.

  7. Nancy Naive Avatar
    Nancy Naive

    What goes around comes around… and it goes out here.

    Hey, everybody does what they do best and what can help. We give Ukraine incredible weapons that will allow a smaller force to defeat the larger Russian force.

    Australia, Denmark and Canada give us baby formula that doesn’t kill babies.

  8. YellowstoneBound1948 Avatar
    YellowstoneBound1948

    Besides me, does anyone else here refer to Ukraine as “The Ukraine”?

    1. Nancy Naive Avatar
      Nancy Naive

      Do a search for exact phrase. This is done by using quotes.

      But, out of curiosity, do you call us “The United States” or “These United States”? I have my presumption.

      Maybe it’s the “U”. The United Kingdom… the Uganda… nope. Guess not. Oooh, oooh, is it a Ukranian, or an Ukrainian?

      How about a historic event, or an historic event?

      1. YellowstoneBound1948 Avatar
        YellowstoneBound1948

        “The Ukraine” was introduced to me by movie tone reels shot in the 30s and 40s. Lowell Thomas usually narrated. Stalin’s collectivization killed a million Ukranians in “The Ukraine,” for example. Stamp collectors were referring to “The Ukraine” when I started collecting in the 50s, and I believe the older ones (the collectors) still do. I have never associated my name for the Ukraine with the USA. “The” is probably preferred by almost everyone, but “These” is not incorrect, although it is obscure.

        1. Nancy Naive Avatar
          Nancy Naive

          It was “These” in 1861, “The” in 1865.

      2. YellowstoneBound1948 Avatar
        YellowstoneBound1948

        Here is what I found on the Internet:

        Ukraine is one of a few
        English country names traditionally used with the definite article the.
        Use of the article was standard before Ukrainian independence, but has
        decreased since the 1990s. For example, the Associated Press dropped the
        article “the” on 3 December 1991.

      3. YellowstoneBound1948 Avatar
        YellowstoneBound1948

        Here is what I found on the Internet:

        Ukraine is one of a few
        English country names traditionally used with the definite article the.
        Use of the article was standard before Ukrainian independence, but has
        decreased since the 1990s. For example, the Associated Press dropped the
        article “the” on 3 December 1991.

      4. Lefty665 Avatar
        Lefty665

        I believe the correct woke pronoun is they Ukrainian.

    2. Lefty665 Avatar
      Lefty665

      I do, but I’m an old f*rt..

  9. Lefty665 Avatar
    Lefty665

    Sigh, once again you make bad assumptions then run madly off in the wrong direction with them. It almost seems you enjoy it.

    You should at least have the integrity to attribute my words to me when you quote me. But you lack even that basic honesty. Yet you wrap yourself in religion. Curious.

    The US has no, zero, nada strategic interest in the Ukraine.

    I am old enough, as are you, to remember the Cuban Missile Crisis of 1962. The US was ready, on the brink actually, to start WW3 over Soviet troops and missiles in Cuba.

    There is no reason to believe the Russians should feel any less existentially threatened by our NATO expansion into Eastern Europe and to Russia’s borders, installation of nuclear capable Aegis Ashore missile systems in Poland and Romania, overthrow of the elected Ukrainian government, build up of the Ukraine as a de facto NATO state, and encouragement of the Ukraine to again build nuclear weapons among other provocations today.

    That does not state or imply any love for Putin. It does recognize that the Russians have national interests that are in many ways similar to and parallel to our own. They do not want hostile forces on their border any more than we do ours. That is a simple recognition of reality, but rationality seems beyond your comprehension.

    Nor am I on the Right politically. You are clueless.

    I again remind you that “Your flag decal won’t get you into heaven anymore” and suggest it is past time for you to spend more time on the beach, as you profess to admire its beauty.

    1. If NATO on Russia’s border was the real reason (or was it denazification (sp?)), then why hasn’t Putin invaded Estonia or Latvia? Both members since 2004! Will Putin invade Finland also if they join?

      Georgia didn’t join NATO but was invaded. Crimea was taken during a time when Ukraine had de-prioritized joining NATO

      This is really about restoring Soviet borders and bringing Ukraine’s resources and prime Black Sea territory under Russian control. NATO is just an excuse. Don’t fall for it.

    2. James C. Sherlock Avatar
      James C. Sherlock

      Read your own words.

      “It does recognize that the Russians have national interests that are in many ways similar to and parallel to our own. They do not want hostile forces on their border any more than we do ours.”

      If they take over Ukraine, the “hostile forces on their border” will include the NATO countries Poland, Slovakia, Hungary and Romania. Mr. Putin will then find that intolerable to Russia’s “national interests”. He will threaten, perhaps invade. What then will your position be?

      You have expressed in writing that Ukraine, the United States and NATO countries are ganging up on poor Russia. By implication, Ukrainians are killing Russian troops who just happen to be in Ukraine on a visit.

      “National interests” do not justify scorched earth invasions and deportation of Ukrainian children into the bowels of Russia.

      Yet you do justify the Russian way of war. Indeed, you blame it on the Ukrainians. In your words, they “kill their own people in a scheme to blame Russia.” Russian rapes are “debunked.” Who knew?

      The Putin right exists. It is small, but it is there.

      If you insist, I will mark you as the vanguard of the Putin left.

      1. Lefty665 Avatar
        Lefty665

        I do read my own words, and I am rather fond of them. They generally clearly express reality.

        Russia has never expressed an interest in “tak(ing) over Ukraine” as you put it. Their goals, if you had been paying attention, are to secure the independence of the Donbas, to secure access to and water for Crimea, and a future non nuclear, neutral Ukraine.

        You once again set up a straw man. That is what your assertion that Russia would have more NATO members on its border if it took over Ukraine is. Straw twaddle.

        “National interests” do not justify scorched earth invasions and deportation

        That is more descriptive of the US “Shock and Awe” invasion of Iraq than Russia in Ukraine.

        War is ugly. It kills and maims people and destroys countries. Russia is at war in Ukraine. It has however left the power on for most citizens along with the water, sewer, gas and communications. That is in marked contrast with how the US wages war. Compare Kyiv today and Baghdad in 2003.

        Bucha was a clear example of the Ukrainians killing their own people to generate anti Russian propaganda. The Ukrainian Parliament has also recently fired its own Human Rights Ombudsman for making up Russian rape accusations. It is evil people (think Nazis like you support) who will kill their own as fodder for propaganda.

        You will mark me as anything you choose. Whatever you choose is likely to be wrong.

        Here is a link to the column where I so got under your thin skin.

        https://www.baconsrebellion.com/lessons-in-education-democracy-and-western-civilization-from-a-great-man/

        1. James C. Sherlock Avatar
          James C. Sherlock

          Utterly astonishing. You take my breath away.

          1. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            Welcome to the internet, Bubba.

            Aside from the declaration by Putin that Ukraine is a part of Russia, one might say this is over just the eastern portions… but they’d still be wrong. If the Donbas was the goal then why send an 8-mile long column against Kyiv?

            As for access to the sea… last I checked, Sevastopol was on the Black Sea, and completely under Russian control. I’m not even sure that Ukraine ever did more about Crimea other than protest loudly given that nearly all residents are Russia speakers and had strong ties to Moscow and Russian Navy money.

          2. James C. Sherlock Avatar
            James C. Sherlock

            Thanks. Differences between Ukraine in 2014 when Russia seized Crimea when Obama was president and 2022 when it tried to seize the rest of Ukraine are night and day.

            For one, the Ukrainians in the “Revolution of Dignity” in February of 2014 tossed out a pro-Moskow government and replaced it with a Western-oriented one. In response, Putin invaded the first time and annexed Crimea. Fast forward and at the start of the second Russian invasion in 2022 the Zelenskyy government was in power. A strategic mistake by Mr. Putin based on really bad intel. President Zelenskyy has proven a superb wartime president.

            Second, NATO troops including U.S. paratroopers trained both the Ukrainian Armed Forces and the Ukrainian National Guard in Ukraine and at NATO training facilities in Europe to make them the fighting force which repulsed the Russians. The Ukrainian National Guard (both law enforcement and military functions like the American National Guard) has been the primary force fighting in Donbas since 2014. The Ukrainian Army, Navy, Air Force and National Guard have fought bravely and well, as have volunteer regional forces quickly raised after this invasion. The successful small unit tactics and distributed combat decision-making they have employed show what they learned from NATO instruction.

          3. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            Yes. We have been active as a Ukrainian “ally”, trainer would be a better word, as we have with many countries. I would not be surprised to find Saudi and Israeli officers sitting at adjacent tables at the on-base McDonald’s at San Antonio’s AFB (name escapes me) because I have. Oh, in the bowling alley too.

            Things were going swiming right up to “but first, I need a favor…”

          4. Lefty665 Avatar
            Lefty665

            Lakland, it’s a spare.

          5. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            Lap? I like Lak, but…

          6. Lefty665 Avatar
            Lefty665

            You can tell them apart by the reindeer, Lap has more than Lak.

          7. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            and the othet has lackeys?

          8. Lefty665 Avatar
            Lefty665

            Yessir

          9. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            As for NATO on a Russian border, that’s what Belarus and a captive Ukraine would be for… friendly buffers. But with Finland getting religion, now Putin does have NATO on the border. Although, two of the three Baltics already were. Latvia, and Estonia. The two northern ones. LEL. So,maybe Lithuania?

          10. Lefty665 Avatar
            Lefty665

            Those quaint things called “elections” as the legitimate form of government change escape you. Silly formalities I guess to be tossed out, overthrown by force of arms, whenever you don’t like them. Not surprising, it is the arrogant American way in other countries.

            The government of the Ukraine that you so casually refer to as “tossed out” was the government the people of the Ukraine elected to run the country. It had its warts to be sure, but it was the legitimate government of the Ukraine. We overthrew it.

            The Russians have had a naval base in Sevastopol, Crimea for hundreds of years. They were there legitimately. They did not invade. The people of Crimea voted overwhelmingly to affiliate with Russia instead of the coup mob in Kyiv. Again, the subtleties of those ephemeral things called elections and voting to establish who governs escape you.

            We will see the outcome, it is not established yet. Each day Zelenskyy does not reach a settlement and the war drags on more Ukrainians die and more of the country is destroyed. If that is your measure of a “superb wartime president” we have different views of what constitutes “superb”. You think the higher the Ukrainian body count the more “superb” it is. I do not.

            The Russians are in the process of demolishing the cream of the Ukrainian forces that they have trapped in the Donbas even as we speak. When that is done we will see what happens next. The $53B in arms we have supplied them makes the establishment of a neutral and demilitarized Ukraine as a buffer on Russia’s border difficult.

            The NATO and our training and equipping you extol are precisely why the Russians are threatened in their own front yard. It is a big part of why they invaded. It is just like the Soviets putting forces and missiles in our front yard in Cuba in ’62.

            You like it that we have created an existential threat to the country with the most nuclear weapons in the world directly on its border.

            Golly gee, what could possibly go wrong with that?

          11. James C. Sherlock Avatar
            James C. Sherlock

            First, I missed the election in which the Ukrainians invited the Russians to invade.

            Second, you celebrate the destruction of that country and its armed forces. “The Russians are in the process of demolishing the cream of the Ukrainian forces that they have trapped in the Donbas even as we speak”. Did I note a hint of saliva with those words?

            Third, you provide an ex-post facto excuse for the Russian invasion. The Russians invaded, then the west provided them arms with which to defend themselves, which makes “the establishment of a neutral and demilitarized Ukraine as a buffer on Russia’s border difficult”.

            As I have noted before, I am simply amazed. Does not happen often. Congratulations.

          12. Lefty665 Avatar
            Lefty665

            The only saliva is in your dreams. Zelenskyy is openly stating the Ukraine is losing 60-100 dead per day and 500 wounded in Donbas, lord only knows how high the numbers really are. War is hell and no rational person wants it.

            I was responding to your exultation that the US and NATO have been training and equipping Ukrainian forces. That has been going on since at 2014. That is not ex-post facto.

            This is a war the US wanted and did everything in its power to precipitate. It is US neocon policy glory.

            We could have easily prevented it by stating that Ukraine would not become a member of NATO and by assuring its demilitarization as a buffer on Russia’s border. You know, just like Poppy Bush promised Gorbachev.

            Instead, as you approvingly observed, we and NATO continued arming and training the Ukrainian military. Zelenskyy hisself has said that the was told that Ukraine would never become a member of NATO but when he asked us to state that publicly we refused.

            It is not me, it is your ignorance and refusal to look beyond US and Zelenskyy’s propaganda that causes your amazement.

            I again remind you of my dear old Dad’s observation “The worst mistake you can make is to believe your own propaganda.”

            Open your eyes. Understand that there is more than one side to every issue, and learning what they are is crucial to having an informed opinion.

            You don’t have to admire both sides, and I don’t much approve of either one on Ukraine, Having a clue that there is more to it than just our propaganda is how you gain an opinion worth having. Otherwise you’re just a lemming. In this case the cliff you’re headed towards is WW3. Nobody wins that.

            Have some self respect. Get your head up and look around.

          13. Lefty665 Avatar
            Lefty665

            why send an 8-mile long column against Kyiv?

            To hold the Ukrainian defenders in place so they could not reinforce Donbas while the Russians were preparing that battlefield. They succeeded.

            As for access to the sea. I said North Atlantic, not just any sea.

          14. Lefty665 Avatar
            Lefty665

            why send an 8-mile long column against Kyiv?

            To hold the Ukrainian defenders in place so they could not reinforce Donbas while the Russians were preparing that battlefield. They succeeded.

            As for access to the sea. I said North Atlantic as in the NA in NATO, not just any sea.

          15. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            Getting wiped out is a strange way of holding defenders in place…

            BUT you’ll be happy to know that US military cyber-warriors have been actively hacking Russian military systems. We are officially fighting.

          16. Lefty665 Avatar
            Lefty665

            Funny, the propaganda indeed was that the valiant Ukrainians beat the evil Ruskies back from Kyiv.

            The other perspective is that the Russians made a show of advancing towards Kyiv (remember the 40km traffic jam?) then camped out. They never attacked the city in force. That held the Ukrainian defenders in place so they could not reinforce Donbas. Far from being wiped out around Kyiv, Russian losses were very low and they accomplished their objective.

            The Russians then pulled back from Kyiv, and other cities, and deployed those forces to Donbas where they are currently engaged in beating the crap out of the encircled Ukrainian forces.

            You are right. We clearly have been supplying the Ukrainians with a lot of assistance and intelligence.

          17. I believe BR has its first Russian troll bot. It’s the simplest explanation.

          18. Lefty665 Avatar
            Lefty665

            Not so, but it clearly has its first moron.

          19. Lefty665 Avatar
            Lefty665

            Good, now that I’ve got your attention if I can just get some sense into your head we will be making progress.

        2. Your reply to my comment below disappeared because it was marked as spam, which is true, but just to respond here you go.

          Let’s start from the top and debunk your points from that post. Essentially, the majority
          of what you said is not true, plus you didn’t answer the fundamental questions
          of why didn’t he invade Estonia or Latvia or why he did invade Georgia which
          never entertained NATO membership.

          **I am wrong about Soviet borders (your opinion, but here’s Putin’s view)
          https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/putin-rues-soviet-collapse-demise-historical-russia-2021-12-12/

          **Bush promised Gorbachev no NATO expansion (incorrect and irrelevant
          anyway):
          https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front/2014/11/06/did-nato-promise-not-to-enlarge-gorbachev-says-no/

          Irrelevant because even if he did, that was a different regime. Putin’s
          Russia and Gorbachev’s would not be handled the same.

          **Obama overthrew Ukraine (incorrect):
          https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2014/mar/19/facebook-posts/united-states-spent-5-billion-ukraine-anti-governm/

          **Finland is another clear and intentional provocation.(incorrect) Putin’s
          invasion changed Finland’s and Sweden’s minds. That’s a self-inflicted wound by
          Putin. No Western provocation involved.

          **I forgot Lithuania (incorrect) – check your map, Lithuania doesn’t border
          Russia

          **Putin objects to NATO expansion (irrelevant) Just because someone wants
          something doesn’t make it correct or the ‘law’ so to speak

          **The Russians have tried very hard to become productive members of the
          European community. (laughable) But ok, I would love to see the examples.

          **We pushed Russia into china’s arms (more laughable than last point) They
          were already there.

          1. Lefty665 Avatar
            Lefty665

            You’re just a chickensh** to delete responses that don’t agree with your myopic view.

  10. Nancy Naive Avatar
    Nancy Naive

    Yes, they disgrace the Right because so many on the Right are Religious Authoritarians. They disgrace the Left because so many on the Right are Religious Authoritarians.

    Speculation is good and natural, but untested speculation becomes religion and superstition. Tested, and it becomes a science.

  11. Nancy Naive Avatar
    Nancy Naive

    I think I could turn and live with animals, they are so placid and self-contain’d,
    I stand and look at them long and long.
    They do not sweat and whine about their condition,
    They do not lie awake in the dark and weep for their sins,
    They do not make me sick discussing their duty to God,
    Not one is dissatisfied, not one is demented with the mania of owning things,
    Not one kneels to another, nor to his kind that lived thousands of years ago,
    Not one is respectable or unhappy over the whole earth. — Walt Whitman, poet (31 May 1819-1892)

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