Tanner Cross   Photo credit: ABC11

by Dick Hall-Sizemore

The Loudoun County School Board has gone too far by disciplining a teacher for speaking in opposition to a proposed Board policy.

Tanner Cross, a physical education teacher, appeared before the Board at a meeting in May in opposition to a proposed policy regarding LGBTQ students. One of the provisions of the draft policy would require students to use the name and pronoun “that corresponds to [the student’s] consistently asserted gender identity.” According to the Washington Post, Cross said that he could not do that; he would never “affirm that a biological boy can be a girl and vice versa.”

School officials placed Cross on paid administrative leave and forbade him from setting foot on school grounds and from speaking at school board meetings.  Cross went to court claiming a violation of his rights of free speech and free exercise of religion. A circuit court ordered the school system to immediately reinstate Cross and rescind the ban on his entering school grounds. Although the ruling was a preliminary injunction while the suit goes forth, the judge made it clear that he felt that the school system’s actions were a freedom of speech violation. The school system has appealed the ruling to the Virginia Court of Appeals.

This is a clear violation of the man’s First Amendment right to freedom of speech. School Board policy allows school employees to engage in political activities as long as it is “clear that their views and actions represent their individual positions and do not represent the views of the school division.” It was abundantly clear that Cross was expressing his views and not those of the division.

If the LGBTQ policy had been in effect and Cross had violated it by intentionally refusing to use a student’s preferred pronoun and name, the Board would have been on firmer legal ground in suspending him for violating one of its policies. But it was not in effect at the time Cross addressed the Board and, in fact, is still not in effect. The Board disciplined him because of what he said, not because of any actions he took.

Some might argue that, even if the policy had been in effect and he had insisted on using the “wrong” pronoun and name, any discipline would have been a violation of his free speech protection. For those making such an argument, I have a different scenario for them to consider. The Board policy prohibits a school employee from using his position in school “to further a political cause, campaign, or support of any issue…during work hours.” What if Cross, or any teacher, brought campaign material to class last fall and strongly urged his students to campaign for Joe Biden? Would the School Board have been in violation of his freedom of speech right if it had suspended him for violating its policy?

My Soapbox

A big disappointment for me is the absence of the Virginia ACLU in this issue. It appears that the national ACLU is going through an identity crisis. Its older, more traditional members want to keep First Amendment issues as the organization’s top priority, but newer, younger members are pushing to change the focus to social justice issues. Based on an interview with the new executive director of the Virginia ACLU, it seems that social justice will be its priority. That’s unfortunate because the ACLU has a nonpartisan tradition that enabled it to fight for the First Amendment rights of even unpopular figures and causes. By jumping into the social justice cultural war, its credibility will be eroded.


Share this article



ADVERTISEMENT

(comments below)



ADVERTISEMENT

(comments below)


Comments

104 responses to “School Board Fails on First Amendment”

  1. Steve Gillispie Avatar
    Steve Gillispie

    The ACLU has been a far left organization for some time now. Only those on the left have rights in their new woke world. The ACLU is now on the side of active discrimination of whites and Asians, employing lawfare strategies to use the courts, the administrative state, and the “media” to punish, intimidate marginalize, or just erase any one or any group which appears to disagree with leftist orthodoxy.

    1. DJRippert Avatar
      DJRippert

      BR is not a governmental entity. The Loudoun School Board is a governmental entity.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        Correct. So does that mean the DMV clerk has full 1st amendment rights to call you an idiot or comment in a negative way about hour gender identity?

        Now about the post office?

        1. DJRippert Avatar
          DJRippert

          Outside of their work environment, I’d say yes. You would not fire a postal employee for calling someone an idiot at a bar.
          Tanner Cross was not at school. He was at a school board meeting. Beyond that, he didn’t personalize his comments to any specific individual to the best of my knowledge.

          1. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            He WAS at a board meeting opining on a proposed rule IN SCHOOL.

            But again, are you asserting that because the school is a govt institution that he has unrestricted 1st amendment rights while he’s working?

            Basically he has MORE 1st amendment rights because of his govt job that others who have private-sector jobs?

          2. DJRippert Avatar
            DJRippert

            The school board is not his workplace. He was not politicking at his workplace.

            The key is how he represents himself. A ,military officer can run for office but cannot wear his or her (or “their”?) uniform while doing so. Why? Because wearing the uniform could lead people to believe that the policies espoused by the military officer was official doctrine of the US military. In fact, as I recall, active duty / reserve and retired military people can’t even wear a uniform at campaign events.

            Tanner Cross never represented that he was speaking in an official capacity.

          3. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            Clearly, he was NOT speaking as an interested observer, though.

            While I’d agree he had that right to speak his mine – he made clear that he was opposed to that policy – as an employee in fact.

            And not just once – but more than once and in a public venue.

            But I agree, the Board probably erred in taking that action.

  2. vicnicholls Avatar
    vicnicholls

    The Board policy prohibits a school employee from using his position in
    school “to further a political cause, campaign, or support of any
    issue…during work hours.” That would include CRT, BLM, etc. in other words all leftist material. Requiring/compelling speech to fit a political cause, campaign, or support of any issue … during work hours, that is exactly what calling a kid by their preferred pronoun is. It fits a narrative that belongs to the political left, not right.

    1. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
      Dick Hall-Sizemore

      If the school policy requires that a student be referred to by using preferred pronouns and a teacher violates that policy, that is action that would be prohibited, the same as political activity is prohibited.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        but I thought you said upthread: ” A government entity is subject to the free speech requirement because the Constitution says that the Congress shall not abridge free speech. Using the 14th Amendment, the Supreme Court has said that applies to states and local governments as well.”

        I think you’ve brought up a juicy issue!

        1. DJRippert Avatar
          DJRippert

          Juicy and well over 100 years old. Of course the states are bound by the US Constitution.

      2. The U.S. Court of Appeals for the Sixth Circuit has held that a professor at a state university could not be punished for refusing to use a student’s preferred pronouns. The case is Meriwether v. Hartop, et al., No 20-3289 (March 26, 2021) available at https://www.opn.ca6.uscourts.gov/opinions.pdf/21a0071p-06.pdf

        Although the Sixth Circuit decision is not legally binding in Virginia (which is in the Fourth Circuit), it is worth taking a look at for some perspective on the constitutional issues involved.

        1. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
          Dick Hall-Sizemore

          Thanks for the link. I am not surprised that there has been a case on this. I will read the decision with interest. Without having read it, I am wondering if that case can be distinguished from the Tanner situation because of the existence, or proximate existence, of a school division policy.

      3. DJRippert Avatar
        DJRippert

        Once again, that was not the situation at hand. The matter of pronouns was under discussion by the board. Tanner Cross expressed an opinion about the proposed rule. The Marxist asshats who run Loudoun County schools didn’t like his opinion and sought to cancel him. The court refused to go along.

      4. Nancy Naive Avatar
        Nancy Naive

        Even if it doesn’t. If the coach’s continued use of gender specific pronouns or his refusal to use preferred names (legal or not) can, to a reasonable man, be shown to be hostile, or even sexually charged, it’s game over for him. I suspect that his brutish and boorish attitudes will eventually surface in a documentable way. Perhaps it already has.

        Title IX applies.

      5. vicnicholls Avatar
        vicnicholls

        Requiring/compelling speech to fit a political cause is against federal law.

  3. Nancy Naive Avatar
    Nancy Naive

    As an aside, my HS vice principal was Mr. Hindmarsh. Those with knowledge of Hampton Roads in the 1960s will recognize that his spouse, Connie Hindmarsh was best known here as Miss Connie of the local affiliate’s “Romper Room”.

    I wonder now if our calling him, Mister Connie, mightn’t have been misinterpreted by him as an insult?

  4. The Loudoun County School Board has a scary authoritarian instinct.

    1. Eric the half a troll Avatar
      Eric the half a troll

      I think they just take their job very seriously. There aren’t socialist boogie men behind every curtain, you know.

      1. DJRippert Avatar
        DJRippert

        Trying to cancel an employee for expressing his opinion at a school board meeting where expressions of opinion are welcomed and encouraged is pretty much Marxist boogieman behavior.

        1. Eric the half a troll Avatar
          Eric the half a troll

          He did far more than simply express his opinion on a policy.

    2. LarrytheG Avatar
      LarrytheG

      I really don’t see anything “authoritarian” about a rule that say you must address others with the name they prefer.

      You Conservative types have issues figuring out who has “rights” sometimes.

      1. DJRippert Avatar
        DJRippert

        You continue to struggle. You have a right to your opinion about the proposed rule. So does Tanner Cross. That is the only question at hand here.

        1. LarrytheG Avatar
          LarrytheG

          Nope. He’s disagreeing with a policy that requires him to treat others with respect , i.e. address them by their preferred name.

          He’s wrong on his view and he’s even more wrong if he actually behaves according to his view.

          I can see where the school doubts he is committed to their policy.

  5. Publius Avatar

    DHS, unlike some of other commenters from the left of center (you know who you are), has once again committed sanity where I find myself in partial agreement.
    The throwaway point is that the ACLU has lost its way. You could often disagree with who they represented or that particular case, but they were intellectually consistent and zealous on the 1st Amendment. I think the split between the old guard ACLU and the “yoots “ is indicative of what is being turned out of law schools today…SJWs with TDS…no Atticus Finches.
    Where I disagree is that Cross could be properly punished if the Policy to regard scientific impossibility as true had been adopted to be polite. Sorry. That would still be compelling speech and violating his conscience and would not be helping any hypothetical student by not speaking truthfully. You don’t help an alcoholic by saying have another drink. You don’t help the morbidly obese by bringing in a box of Krispy Kremes. You don’t help the hacking smoker by buying a carton of Lucky Strikes. You don’t help society by forcing people to say what they know is not true. Yes, that can be “mean,” but the truth hurts has been an expression for a long time for a reason, and accepting the truth is the better outcome.

    1. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
      Dick Hall-Sizemore

      This is getting a little off topic, but I will respond. Trans people would say that the “truth” is that, emotionally and psychologically, they do not feel to be the gender that their physical anatomy reflects. And, there is psychological and psychiatric findings that back them up. Therefore, for John or Richard, “she” may be the “truth”. Disclosure: In my extended family, there is a transgender person. All during childhood, this person was a girl. Then, in college, “she” revealed that “she” is a male psychologically and has transformed–mastectomies, hormones, legal name change.

      1. Publius Avatar

        I understand that. And I acknowledge how difficult such situations are. I have a great friend who is a teacher at a well know Yankee prep school who has a daughter who is now a son. And I thought raising my kids was difficult! I think similar difficulties are presented by the gay lifestyle/ideology. Speak the truth in love. Where I think all reason is lost is that people presume the refusal to approve of choices of others means denial of the humanity of that person. No it doesn’t. At the same time, teacher Cross has the right to think what he thinks. Each person has made his her xer choice and that choice should not be forced upon the other.

        1. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
          Dick Hall-Sizemore

          Cross can always think what he thinks and say what he wants to outside of school. Once the policy is in place, he will be required to abide by that policy while in school.

          1. Publius Avatar

            And the policy will be wrong and tyrannical. The flip side would be to prohibit people like Full Troll saying Christians are full of feces and firing him. You can’t make society perfect, particularly where you require the vast majority to live under an exception catered to a minority. It is better to accept that complete agreement can only be achieved through tyranny and even then, it isn’t achieved. People still know what they think.

          2. DJRippert Avatar
            DJRippert

            Unless the policy is contrary to the constitution (US or Virginia). In that case our Attorney General can refuse to support the policy in court – as Herring did with regard to the Virginia constitutional amendment which required a marriage to be between one man and one woman – prior to that being struck down by the US Supreme Court.

          3. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            The LAW is in place. See Grimm v. Glochester.

            Btw, “Lawyers from the American Civil Liberties Union, representing Grimm, told the court that treating him differently by requiring him to use separate single-stall bathrooms singled him out “and stigmatized him as unfit to use the same restroom as his peers.”

            They said there was no need for the Supreme Court to take up the appeal, because the lower courts that have considered the issue reached the same conclusion — that treating transgender students differently violates a federal law, known as Title IX, that bans sex discrimination in school programs.

            Monday’s order denying review in the case means Grimm’s victory in the appeals court remains intact.

            The American Civil Liberties Union celebrated the action.

            “This is an incredible victory for Gavin and for transgender students around the country,” said Josh Block, a senior staff attorney.

            Grimm said he is glad the legal fight is over.

            Recommended

            DATA GRAPHICS
            Graphic: Track Biden’s latest vaccination goals

            SUPREME COURT
            Clarence Thomas says federal laws against marijuana may no longer be necessary
            “Being forced to use the nurse’s room, a private bathroom, and the girl’s room was humiliating for me, and having to go to out-of-the-way bathrooms severely interfered with my education,” he said. “Trans youth deserve to use the bathroom in peace without being humiliated and stigmatized by their own school boards and elected officials.”

            Justices Clarence Thomas and Samuel Alito said the Supreme Court should have taken the case.

            Related issues may soon be headed to the Supreme Court, including disputes over allowing transgender students to play on the school sports teams matching their gender identities.

            Grimm originally went to court in 2015, arguing that the school board’s policy made him feel ashamed and isolated, and the 4th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, based in Richmond, ruled in his favor. It said refusing to let students use bathrooms corresponding to their gender identity would violate the federal law.

            That ruling cited an Obama-era Education Department letter that said “a school generally must treat transgender students consistent with their gender identity.” The appeals court found that to be a reasonable interpretation of Title IX, and the school district appealed to the Supreme Court.

            But when the Trump administration rescinded the Education Department letter in 2017, the justices said they would not hear the case and vacated the appeals court ruling. So Grimm refiled his lawsuit and won again in the lower courts, leading to this current appeal to the Supreme Court.

            Two things have changed since the first time the case came before the justices. The Supreme Court ruled last year that a federal civil rights law bans employment discrimination on the basis of gender identity, and now the Biden administration has interpreted that ruling as applying to Title IX as well.

            “A school’s policy or actions that treat gay, lesbian, or transgender students differently from other students may cause harm,” a legal memo from the Department of Education said.

            Pete Williams
            Pete Williams is an NBC News correspondent who covers the Justice Department and the Supreme Court, based in Washington.

            by Taboola
            Sponsored Stories

        2. Eric the half a troll Avatar
          Eric the half a troll

          “Speak the truth in love.”

          Good lord! Conservatives don’t even want teachers discussing the bird and the bees in clinical terms with their children as they might miscommunicate in some hypothetically crucial way and destroy the child’s moral fiber. You now want a gym teacher to make the call in a complex psychological issue and to second guess the parents and their doctor? Just “speak the truth in love”… (smh)

          1. Publius Avatar

            As usual, Full Troll with the stereotypes and ignorance. So I guess school districts teaching things the parents disagree with by a vast majority should be accepted without any pushback? How about this – teach children how to think, not what to think?
            And in elementary schools it should be how to read, how to write and how to do math. That’s it. Once they have those tools, expand to things like history where there isn’t one answer. Present all sides. But requiring a majority to change behavior to be “nice” to a minority is tyranny. Call me names. Ooh, it hurts so bad! I’m melting… The teacher has the right to live his beliefs. And, maybe, just maybe, it’s possible he is right. Maybe, just maybe, the doctors are crossing lines they shouldn’t cross. Maybe, given the “science” of trans post transition, there is still unhappiness, suicide, etc. Maybe, just maybe, it would be better to try to get the person to live as the chromosomes indicate. But you do you Full Troll.

          2. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            “So I guess school districts teaching things the parents disagree with by a vast majority should be accepted without any pushback?”

            This policy has nothing to do with LCPS curriculum.

            “The teacher has the right to live his beliefs.”

            Hypothetically, a student opts out of sex education classes but a teacher believes to his core that it is in the interest of all students to receive a basic sex education and that he would be harming the child to exempt them from that instruction. It is against his religious beliefs to knowingly harm a child so he keeps the child in the class and provides the instruction. According to you, that is a protected action – the teacher has the right to live his beliefs.

            “And, maybe, just maybe, it’s possible he is right. Maybe, just maybe, the doctors are crossing lines they shouldn’t cross.”

            Since when is it appropriate for a gym teacher to unilaterally make that call? In what world?!

          3. Publius Avatar

            In a world called America. Full Troll – people don’t agree with you. Boo f-ing hoo! You don’t have to agree with the teacher. He doesn’t have to agree with you. I don’t have to agree with either of you.
            Yet another stupid example from a non-serious person – so the teacher is going to kidnap the trans kid to force him to accept the teacher’s belief? No one said that – but you can’t make the teacher accept that he agrees with transgenderism. Grow up.

          4. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            Let’s say the teacher believes that making special accommodations in his class for an aspergian student goes against his belief that a child should never be “coddled”. Since the teacher supposedly knows best and firmly believes that making such accommodations at the expressed wish of the parents and their doctor would not be in the child’s best interest, he can ignore such requests even with a SB policy saying he can’t. This is the Conservative standard now.

          5. Publius Avatar

            Waste of time. Let’s say the teacher believes we are descended from Antherians and that Cocoon is true and teaches that.
            The question is – does he teach what he is supposed to teach and does he do it well?
            He’s a phys ed teacher? Maybe he isn’t just a crazy Christian type…maybe he has observed that boys are bigger, stronger, taller, faster than girls and his specialty has confirmed his Christian beliefs. Maybe his beliefs are evn true. He has the right to his religious beliefs. Oh, how scary! Are you as frightened of Jehovah’s Witnesses? Amish? Scientologists? Christian Scientists? Danger everywhere!

          6. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            “He has the right to his religious beliefs”

            He does not, however, have the right to endanger the well-being of a child and then point to his religious beliefs as an excuse. That you don’t accept this speaks volumes.

          7. Publius Avatar

            As does your belief in compelling his speech…

          8. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            No, not compelling. Restricting. He would only face an issue when he actively and intentionally identifies the student by their birth name/pronoun. There are many simple ways for him to avoid that situation.

          9. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            So, he knows better than his God? Hermaphroditism is empirical evidence that God ain’t as sure as he.

          10. Publius Avatar

            Yes – there is tension between the 2 things – the poorly decided non-establishment stretch and individual liberty and freedom of religion – here is a key passage from the article – Jim Henderson, senior counsel with the American Center for Law and Justice, says that “the promise of Tinker finds no fulfillment regarding individual teachers’ right to assert a free-exercise right or a free-speech right to express her or his religious views against the school district’s position that it is entitled to require a teacher to communicate material consistent with the curriculum.”

            So what does compelling the use of pronouns have to do with phys ed? And why can’t he say he believes the science not the feelings? Or are you just scared that he won’t bend the knee? Would you care if a Muslim refused? Hmmm… How about the Muslims killing homosexuals? Yeah, those Christians sure are a threat…
            Just like physical violence or putting someone in a reasonable fear of harm crosses the line, so does compelling speech. This isn’t that hard…

          11. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            “So what does compelling the use of pronouns have to do with phys ed? ”
            It’s discriminatory. If he addresses one child by preference and not another and based solely on gender identity, he violates the law, to wit: Title IX.

          12. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            indeed.

          13. Publius Avatar

            I have now drawn the Triumvirate of Those Who Must Stick to the Leftist Bible…no matter what.
            If he uses the same criteria to call all kids by the same sex they were born with, it is not discriminatory. Seriously, DHS is capable of thinking. We likely disagree on 70-90% of things here, but he is at least thoughtful. You guys keep coming back with the same things – sorry. I disagree. Seems like the teacher would disagree with you. Somehow, the world will survive, but you people on the Left have to make everybody do as you wish…

          14. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            It’s called “obeying the law”, something the moron right seems to have forgotten.

          15. Publius Avatar

            Yeah…after a busy day of pulling down statues and calling people we disagree with racist morons… Being virtuous is so hard! Here’s a selfie of me in my new designer shades. Oh, and capitalism totally sux!

          16. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            If the foo…

          17. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            “the promise of Tinker finds no fulfillment regarding individual teachers’ right to assert a free-exercise right or a free-speech right to express her or his religious views against the school district’s position that it is entitled to require a teacher to communicate material consistent with the curriculum.”

            Are you thinking that if it’s not his religious views he is good to go?

            My reading of this is that the School has the right and the authority to require adherence to it’s policies for employees.

            no?

            And the US does not allow the killing of homosexuals by any religion because we promote our form of governance as protecting individual rights including homosexuals and transgender in their treatment in school.

          18. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            “Jim Henderson, senior counsel with the American Center for Law and Justice, says that “the promise of Tinker finds no fulfillment regarding individual teachers’ right to assert a free-exercise right or a free-speech right to express her or his religious views against the school district’s position that it is entitled to require a teacher to communicate material consistent with the curriculum.”

            Muppets? Sesame Street?

  6. Nancy Naive Avatar
    Nancy Naive

    A more fundamental question would be, “Does an employee cease to be an employee, governed by employment rules, simply because a meeting is open to the general public, or non-employees?”

    1. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
      Dick Hall-Sizemore

      As long as the employee makes it clear that he or she is voicing his or her own views and does not represent his or her employer, he enjoys freedom of speech.

      1. Nancy Naive Avatar
        Nancy Naive

        Tough call. I’d have to say, that the consequences of particularly disrespectful behaviour might/could rightfully rise to employment discipline as well as disorderly ordinances.

      1. Nancy Naive Avatar
        Nancy Naive

        Not if he declares he will violate CURRENT laws.

  7. Nancy Naive Avatar
    Nancy Naive

    ” he would never ‘affirm that a biological boy can be a girl and vice versa.’”

    Given that Hermaphroditism is found in humans, and that on occasions, even medically trained persons have made incorrect gender assignments at birth, then this guy must have chromosomal vision.

    It’s either that, or he’s the kinda guy who would tell a black guy that he’d be better off socioeconomically by not going to the tanning salon so much.

  8. Nancy Naive Avatar
    Nancy Naive

    Interesting. So what if this teacher, Tanner Cross, referred to a male counterpart, say one of the history teachers, using effeminate terms? Or, one of the women coaches using masculine terms?

    If one need not “affirm that a biological boy can be a girl and vice versa,” then why should anyone have to affirm that a biological boy is boy, or a biological girl is a girl?

    Surely then, the students are free to refer to him as Miss Cross without fear of discipline? How could he possibly take offense?

    His is the best argument yet for why a professional use of titles in our schools is called for, e.g., “Student Smith,” “Teacher Adams,” etc.

    Yes, no, Citizen Bacon? Perhaps Comrade? Does this coach, Tanner Cross, cure animal hides?

    1. LarrytheG Avatar
      LarrytheG

      I had made the mistake of actually using a few of those kinds of words in my prior comment and BR “censored” it. So much for free speech, eh?

      Yes, SCOTUS recently ruled that a cheerleader can use the F-bomb in referring to her school and related and yes, brought by the infamous ACLU!

      But can an employer restrict your “free speech” in how you address co-workers or clients or customers?

      Pretty sure McDonalds or Capital One can fire you if you violate their standards for communicating with co-workers, clients, customers, etc.

      .Can an employer that is government or quasi-govt?

      I never quite understood why a govt entity – would be any different than a private-sector entity on free speech.

      Pretty sure if a postal or DMV employee used a F-bomb or similar aimed at you, they’d likely be reprimanded/fired also.

      1. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
        Dick Hall-Sizemore

        A government entity is subject to the free speech requirement because the Constitution says that the Congress shall not abridge free speech. Using the 14th Amendment, the Supreme Court has said that applies to states and local governments as well. There is no such prohibition applicable to private entities such as McDonalds.

        1. DJRippert Avatar
          DJRippert

          Thank you Dick. Apparently, high school civics wasn’t a topic of interest for some on this board in their youth.

        2. LarrytheG Avatar
          LarrytheG

          Does that mean, for instance, than any employee of a school system could refer to students in racist or pejorative ways?

          I have some doubts on that.

          I’ve seen some Standards of Conduct for govt and school entities that seem to limit their “free speech” in their interactions with other employees… and again… the Post Office or DMV dealing with customers?

          If a DMV employee said the same thing as the school employee with regard to a transgender person – what would happen?

          1. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            Keyword — pejorative. The school is a recognized workplace, hence hostile workplace laws apply. If a transgender student takes this arse of a coach to court…

          2. DJRippert Avatar
            DJRippert

            More distraction and deflection. Watch the video of what Tanner actually said. And try to remember that what was said occurred during the citizen feedback portion of a school board meeting.

    2. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
      Dick Hall-Sizemore

      Interesting arguments. None of this would have occurred to anyone many years ago before transgender was accepted.

      There is probably a School Board policy that would be applicable to causing friction with fellow teachers. As for students, the Supreme Court has not yet ruled that students enjoy freedom of speech rights within school. But, it would be fun for students to refer to him with feminine titles or pronouns to see what happens.

      1. DJRippert Avatar
        DJRippert

        Tanner didn’t refer to students with pronouns contrary to their choosing. He commented on a proposed rule that had not been implemented and said he opposed the rule under discussion.

        1. Eric the half a troll Avatar
          Eric the half a troll

          If it stopped there, he may have been fine. The problem is he said he would never follow such a policy if it was enacted. That is a threat that should not be ignored by any school board.

          1. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            or it’s possible he opposed the rule as proposed but would, in fact, follow it, once enacted?

      2. Nancy Naive Avatar
        Nancy Naive

        Clearly, Coach Tanner’s mama failed him in his social education. He should know that respect is a symmentric relationship, and to receive it, one must show it.

        If student William Smith legally changes their name to Wilma Smith, and Coach Cross continues to call them William, then by his own argument, he will be subject to disciplinary action.

        Hand him his rope, and wait.

        1. LarrytheG Avatar
          LarrytheG

          So the schools could/should (might already) have a simple rule in their standards of conduct that says that teachers will speak respectfully to students using the students preferred name – nothing what-so-ever about gender in that rule.

          1. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            Yep. And so does the Fed… hostile workplace. No need to stretch to fit, or specifically cleave out LGBT cases.

          2. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
            Dick Hall-Sizemore

            The School Board does have a policy that “employees are expected to convey respect for students.” Of course that is pretty vague and open to interpretation.

          3. DJRippert Avatar
            DJRippert

            If I were still in school I would insist on being referred to as Commodore Rippert. No particular reason. I just like the term. Besides, Captain Crunch and the Crunchberry Beast need additional supervision and I’m just the Commodore for the job.

            How ridiculous does this need to be?

            Reminds me of when Char Johnson wanted to be known by his football number – 85. The NFL refused to change his jersey to be Ochocinco until he legally changed his name to Ochocinco.

          4. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            I would say, “yes”.

        2. DJRippert Avatar
          DJRippert

          More mindless distraction. Tanner Cross commented on a proposed rule in the citizen comment time of a board meeting. The Marxists who run Loudoun County’s schools didn’t like his opinion and sought to penalize Coach Cross for having and expressing an opinion.

          1. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            It’s moot anyway.

    3. DJRippert Avatar
      DJRippert

      More of the deflection and distraction that we’ve become accustomed to from NN. The question isn’t whether Tanner is right or wrong. The question is whether he can be penalized by the school system for expressing his opinions at the citizen feedback portion of a school board meeting.

      1. Nancy Naive Avatar
        Nancy Naive

        God DJ, you’re more boring everyday.

        1. DJRippert Avatar
          DJRippert

          Focus is a terrible disease. You should thank God everyday that you don’t suffer from it.

          1. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            Simple fact is, the coach cannot disrespect the student in such a manner. The easiest course of action is for the student to have a lawyer write a cease and desist letter and then sue the crap out of him.

          2. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            It is not about respect, it is about the child’s well-being and the teacher has stated that he knows what is best for the child and will ignore any other request or directive to the detriment of the child themselves.

          3. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            that aspect is clearly what influenced the board to take the action they did, IMHO, though they may well be out over their skis.

            He’s stated that he thinks his own values trump the proposed school policies – not once, but several times, including in a public forum.

            That’s a recipe for finding other work.

            The premise that because he works for a govt agency that he has unfettered free speech might well be tested in court, but he’s more than likely gonna lose and the winners will be the lawyers, as usual.

            You can have your own beliefs and you can express them out the wazoo outside of your work but at work – you really don’t have unfettered first amendment rights if they adversely affect those you have a professional relationship with – both co-workers and clients or those you provide services to.

          4. WayneS Avatar

            “Simple fact is, the coach cannot disrespect the student in such a manner.”

            Okay, but when did he do that?

          5. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            Future tense… “I will.”

          6. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            Focusing on the nonexistent is a mental disorder. I can give you the numbers of a doctor or two.

          7. WayneS Avatar

            “Simple fact is, the coach cannot disrespect the student in such a manner.”

            Speaking of focusing on the nonexistent…

          8. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            What he did was expose the School Board to a lawsuit by a transgender student.

  9. Nancy Naive Avatar
    Nancy Naive

    Holy crap!
    “Lytton, British Columbia, reached 116 degrees Sunday, the highest temperature ever recorded in Canada in any month. Kamloops, British Columbia, reached 109 degrees Sunday, the highest temperature ever recorded there.”

    Uh, we may have bigger fish to fry, assuming of course, you think of Canadians as a big fish.

  10. Eric the half a troll Avatar
    Eric the half a troll

    According to this study, the attempted suicide rates of transgender adolescent is somewhere between 1 in 2 to 1 in 3.

    https://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/142/4/e20174218

    This is truly a life and death situation being addressed by the school board with deference going to the family and their doctors. A gym teacher says in public that he will ignore such a policy which would put the life of the child at greater risk. Clearly the LCPS was correct in sidelining him.

    1. Nancy Naive Avatar
      Nancy Naive

      He’s stating publicly that he is going to violate Federal law. Forget the policy.

      BTW, BREAKING NEWS… https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/supreme-court/supreme-court-won-t-hear-dispute-over-bathrooms-transgender-students-n1272513

  11. Eric the half a troll Avatar
    Eric the half a troll

    LCPS could have let this guy have his say, noted it, passed the policy, let him violate it or state he refused to follow it, then acted to terminate his employment. That may have been more legally defensible. The issue here is that after the fact, harm could have come to a student in his charge. By him putting them on notice that he would never follow a duly enacted policy of the LCPS, he forced their hand. What other policies would he choose to ignore? Maybe it is “against his religious beliefs” to report a fellow teacher for inappropriate contact with a student. Maybe he decides that a sexual assault need not be reported because “boys will be boys”. Even with just this policy, he was stating plainly that should a parent (working with their child’s doctor) decide it is in the best interest of the child to use a different name/pronoun he would refuse to follow the parent’s directives (that is what “never” means). What happens to LCPS if that student subsequently commits suicide with this statement in the public record? Do you not see the moral and legal quandary this teacher/coach presented with his statement? Had he simply stated, “I disagree with this policy and would request the board not pass it”, he would have been fully in his rights. It is the added, “I will intentionally ignore this policy even to the detriment of the child” bit that crossed a line. Is it analogous to shouting “fire” in a crowded movie theater? I guess we shall see.

    It used to be the Conservative position that parents know best what is the best interest of their child. Apparently, it was always only if they agree with their ideology.

    1. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
      Dick Hall-Sizemore

      I agree with you that the School Board should have just let him have his say and gone on. I also agree with you that Cross pushed the envelope that stating that he would never follow the policy. However, until the policy is effective, that is just a threat, not an active flaunting of the policy. I do see the moral and legal quandary, but, in the end, he was being disciplined for allowed speech. You can’t discipline someone because he might violate a policy, just as you can’t arrest someone because he might commit a crime.

      I predict that, after the policy is implemented, Cross will violate it and his will become a freedom of religion case.

      1. Publius Avatar

        I think you are correct. This is so dangerous – too much agreement!
        And I think Cross would win the lawsuit. And it will cost LCPS a few million…oh, wait, it will cost the taxpayers of LC a few million. Somehow, we need to shift the cost dynamic to make tyrants less willing to be tyrannical. Cross is a public school teacher and doesn’t have the funds or resources to fight on his own, so the tyrants get away with tyranny and bear no risk. It is somewhat akin to the ability of prosecutors to overcharge. Really not fair.

        1. Eric the half a troll Avatar
          Eric the half a troll

          How is it tyrannical to say to teachers to respect the wishes of students, parents, and their doctors on such complex matters??

          1. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            Not just their wish… the law.

          2. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            So the SB was proposing a policy so they would be consistent with the existing law and this guy was already violating the law to start with then stating it publically?

          3. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            Yes and no. Yes, policy was to be consistent with Federal law, a bit redundant to me. Don’t need a policy, just training.

            Don’t know that he actually has broken the law but he certainly stated his “intent” to do so, AND many of these laws require proof of intent, which is why Trump isn’t already serving time, and this guy hands them proof of intent on a silver tray.

      2. Eric the half a troll Avatar
        Eric the half a troll

        Dick, respectfully, you do not agree with me. I said they could have done it that way. I did not say they should have done it that way. To wait for the teacher to do what he threatened puts the well-being of students at risk. No school board should operate that way.

        1. Nancy Naive Avatar
          Nancy Naive

          It’s also discriminatory and a violation of Title IX of the EAA72.

  12. James Wyatt Whitehead Avatar
    James Wyatt Whitehead

    Loudoun County sure knows how to gin up some drama. Good post Mr. Dick. This will likely go on for some time. Mr. Cross, I will add, is highly respected and well liked prior to this incident. It took a lot of guts to make this stand.

  13. Nancy Naive Avatar
    Nancy Naive

    This policy is moot anyway…

    “Sex” found in Title IX of the EAA72 is the same “Sex” as found in Title VII of the CRA64, and a heavily conservative ladened SCOTUS has found…
    https://www.ed.gov/news/press-releases/us-department-education-confirms-title-ix-protects-students-discrimination-based-sexual-orientation-and-gender-identity

    Cross has stated publicly that he intends on violating Title IX. The board has the right to defend itself against liability and can therefore discipline, up to terminate, an employee who places them in legal jeopardy.

    Bite that one, DJ.

  14. Publius Avatar

    For the benefit of sane BR commenters, I propose the SIFT Rule. The SIFT Rule will be akin to baseball’s infield fly rule. If your sane comment draws the critique of SCIENCE!, Ingenue, and Full Troll, QED – you are over the target and correct. It would save a lot of time…

Leave a Reply