THE LONG, TORTUROUS – PERHAPS IMPOSSIBLE – PATH TO FUNCTIONAL AND SUSTAINABLE HUMAN SETTLEMENT PATTERNS

This perspective was originally titled: LOCATION-VARIABLE COSTS – HOUSING LOCATION RELATED TO JOBS. The intent was to amplify the comments by TMT and others following Peter G’s post “Public-Private May Get Overhaul” on public / private transportation ‘projects.’

EMR will get back to location-variable costs and to Job / Housing location synergies in a moment but first:

SOME IMPORTANT BACKGROUND READING

The current issue of Miller-McCune has a compelling essay on the difficulty of overcoming “naive realism” – deeply held but superficial beliefs that have negative impacts on individuals and on society.

Humans find it comfortable, and often compelling, to hold onto simple (and often simplistic) views of complex conditions. This is a variation on what Jared Diamond calls ‘traditional values’ that lead humans down the path to Collapse. Recognizing naive realism is central to understanding the critical importance of human settlement patterns and to developing consensus on the path to functional and sustainable distribution of human activity.

The topic of the Miller-McCune essay by Christie Aschwanden is the difficulty of shifting from simplistic ‘beliefs’ about medical procedures and self-medications to what are called ‘evidence based medical guidelines” based on the best current research.

The cases examined by Aschwanden are:

Long distance runners popping nonsteroidal anti-inflammatorys (NSAIDs) during endurance challenging runs,

The recent U.S. Preventive Services Task Force recommendations on mammography, and

Treatment of back pain.

EMR is not a medical doctor however his Household has had direct, personal experience with NSAIDs and their risks, with mammography success and failure (and similar testing for other cancers) as well as 47 years of experience with back pain and the x-rays, MRIs, exercises and medications to address back pain.

Bottom Line: READ “Evidence Is Only Part of the Story” (print version) “Convincing the Public to Accept New Medical Guidelines (on line version) at http://www.miller-mccune.com/health/convincing-the-public-to-accept-new-medical-guidelines-11422/

The article is ‘right on’ with respect to medical practice but there is a MUCH bigger issue as the print version’s title suggests.

The difficulty of overcoming ‘naive realism’ is key to developing a Critical Mass for support for Fundamental Transformation of human settlement patterns.

How does medical practice relate to human settlement patterns?

In two ways:

First, the human body is a complex organism. Human settlement patterns are far more complex organic systems that are the result of billions of human actions and inactions. (See discussion of why human settlement patterns are organic systems and what that means for anyone trying to understand human settlement patterns – e.g. aggregation and disaggregation of component parts of organic systems – in The Shape of the Future.)

Second, even if there were not organism / organic system parallels, the importance of naive perceptions – and the genetic proclivities which underlie them – apply in both cases.

Myths rule human actions with respect to settlement pattern preferences and decisions.

“The Truth” is not enough to change behavior and the medical examples in Aschwanden’s essay are powerful examples of that reality.

In one of the medical examples:

“Growth of a cancer is BAD and early detection is the primary issue to be concerned about” is a widely held belief that stands in the way of the most effective ways to protect the most humans from cancer.

In a settlement pattern example:

“Growth is GOOD and the only issue is how to foster growth and development.” (This Myth is related not just to LOCATION or cumulative impact of growth but to “growth” itself which will be the topic of a future perspective “DeGrowth – Shrinking to Survive and THEN to Prosper.”)

The context and nature of “growth”is just one of thousands of naive beliefs that confound and block the path to evolving functional and sustainable human settlement patterns.

CREATING CITIZEN CONSENSUS

The comments on the 27 May 2010 post “Public-Private May Get Overhaul” by Peter G. diverged from public / private partnerships into tax districts and specifically the VA Route 28 Tax District. There are a number of good comments and information in the string about the VA Route 28 Tax District.

After coming to grips with the tax district topic, TMT changed horses. He said that he questioned the overarching goal of Job / Housing proximity. EMR will get back to this issue in a moment but first let us examine why naive reality is so important in this context.

After an anonymous commentor who referrers to herself as ‘Observer’ laid out the need for citizen consensus this way:

“A Critical Mass of citizens must understand the need for Fundamental Transformations and support a comprehensive program (to achieve those Transformations).”

TMT said:

“This is tilting at windmills. Complex solutions that people don’t understand and understand to be fair will not be adopted.”

How right TMT is!

That is why EMR spent a decade researching, writing and editing The Shape of the Future.

As those who have read the book know, EMR starts out with Nine Fundamental Theses and articulates Five Natural Laws derived from the settlement patterns that have actually been built over the last 60 years in the US.

The first Volume of the book articulates the absolute requirement for a robust Vocabulary and a comprehensive Conceptual Framework with which to discuss and understand human settlement patterns. EMR also articulated Regional Metrics to facilitate Quantification of the organic components of human settlement pattern.

Before he would agree to pen the Foreword to The Shape of the Future, then Secretary of the Smithsonian, I Michael Heyman insisted that the ideas for moving citizens toward a sustainable path that took up over 500 pages of the Volume II in the Roman and Gargoyle Drafts of the book be organized into simple, easy to understand strategies. The result was the Six Overarching Strategies that make up PART FOUR of The Shape of the Future.

After The Shape of the Future as completed in 2000, EMR and LTR crafted HANDBOOK. A revised edition is now PART ELEVEN of TRILO-G. HANDBOOK articulates a Three Step Process to create strategies that guide the evolution of specific Communities, SubRegions and New Urban Regions toward a sustainable economic, social and physical trajectory.

In 2003 EMR created a SubRegional citizen education and certification program titled “Shaping the Future.” A description of this program can be found in TRILO-G – PART FOUR – THE USE AND MANAGEMENT OF LAND. A overview of settlement pattern evolution in the Piedmont of Virginia includes dissection of the phrase “just twice as many dots” which is a perfect example of naive reality. “Shaping the Future” documented that before a HANDBOOK process can be started there must be a Critical Mass of citizens who understand the need for such an effort. The result of effort to articulate a citizens education process in 2003 to 2005 was PROPERTY DYNAMICS which is profiled in PART TWELVE of TRILO-G.

As part of the “Shaping the Future” program three PowerPoint programs were created. “Five Critical Realities” and “The Physics of Gridlock” are included in their original form on The Shape of the Future, 4th PrintingCD. The third. “The New Urban Region Conceptual Framework” was revised and expanded and is included on the TRILO-G CD.

Building on the foundation laid down in The Shape of the Future, these PowerPoints are an attempt to make the understanding human settlement pattern dysfunction as simple as possible.

As suggested by LINER NOTES, TRILO-G provides a road map to a ‘unified field theory of humans settlement patterns.’

Every one of these efforts has been an attempt to lay out “the truth” based on what has actually happened on the ground.

Now there is the obstacle of ‘naive reality’ and proof that even with respect to ones individual health, Myths prevail in spite of the best medical research.

This brings us back to the basic question:

Will the genetic proclivities that got humans to this point in the process of civilization fail to get humans farther? Will the belief in “naive truth” prevent humans from obtaining a sustainable trajectory?

NOW BACK TO THE IMPORTANCE OF PROXIMITY IN JOBS / HOUSING BALANCE

In the comments following the “Public-Private May Get Overhaul” post, TMT said:

“Observer, I fall off EMR’s wagon on the issue of living and working in the same close area.

“It might have worked years ago, but with both spouses/domestic partners generally working and with the general lack of job security, the odds that a family can live and work in close proximity to each other for more than a short period of time are slim to none, IMO. I’ve never heard a good answer to this question.”

Observer answered that challenge this way (with minor edits for clarification agreed to by Observer:

“TMT the answer is simple:

“Fairly allocate the location-variable costs and then you and your Household can live where so ever they want.

“Here is why:

“If you are fortunate enough to exist near the top of the Ziggurat, you can live in a place like Groveton does with not a whit of guilt because you are paying the full cost of your decisions.

“If you are fortunate enough to exist near the top of the Ziggurat and:

1) Your Agency, Enterprise or Institution relies on the efforts of some who exist anywhere below the top of the Ziggurat, or if

2) You care how much goods and Services cost or how much energy and other resources are consumed in your Region;

“You will be wise to support Jobs with Housing in close, convenient proximity for ALL who hold those Jobs as the FIRST step toward a Balance of Jobs / Housing / Services / Recreation / Amenity.

“That is true if you are an officer in a software company, a lawyer, the regional VP for Wal*Mart or are just “clipping coupons.”

“You will not have a whit of guilt in this case either because:

“For 60 years the market has shown – and research documents beyond a shadow of a doubt – that those who occupy 75 percent of the Households greatly prefer these locations.

“The other 25 percent of Households (those with small children in the Household) have historically had a lower percentage who favor these settlement patterns. That is because they have not yet realized that, as Prof. Risse has noted:

“When the oldest child gets big enough to kick a soccer ball into the flower bed it is time to move to a Cluster with at least 30 persons per acre in a Neighborhood with at least 20 persons per acre. At these densities (10 persons per acre at the Community scale) children can walk to a play field as well as to soccer practice, piano lessons, get a quart of milk and they can walk to elementary, middle and high school. That is all possible in any Planned New Community and many Planned New Villages build between 1962 and 1990 in the US.”

“This level of Mobility and Access is also possible in existing settlement patterns that have been revived and renewed.

“There are those who are speculating with their primary residence and those who hope to pocket an unearned windfall from land speculation and / or from building dwellings that are sold for prices that do not reflect their total cost that will try to obfuscate these fact but they ARE facts.

“They are facts about:

“Market preference and

“The most convenient places to raise children.

[It does not take a rocket scientist to see the arguments against these facts as a pure case of naive reality. As comments on this Blog document, those who do not want to believe the facts about a more complex reality will twist, squirm, question – and some will insult and demean – to avoid even acknowledging the complex reality beyond the simple bromides and Myths.]

“As to the two partners working is different places there are several responses:

“First, that is what shared-vehicle systems are designed to address. An efficient system of shared vehicles take care of the few high value trips citizens need to take outside the station-area.

“Second if costs are fairly allocated it may not seem so attractive to jump to a better paying job if the TOTAL cost turns out to make that less than an intelligent move.

“The Household’s decision to stay put helps Dooryard, Cluster, Neighborhood and Village stability.

“It also make it more likely that citizens will treat one another with more respect. That is because the option of telling a Clustermate to shove it when they comment on where your dog relives himself is far less rational.

“Finally, for those who just have to jump from Job to Job or partner to partner, Richard Florida makes a good argument for renting in his new book “The Great Reset.”

“Hope that helps:

“Observer”

That is all correct but EMR would add a few additional notes because this is such a critical issue.

Citizens and their Organizations must:

STOP subsidizing TOO Big Houses in dysfunctional locations, and

STOP subsidizing transportation alternatives that, regardless of how much they are subsidized will not allow:

Everyone to go wherever they want, whenever they want to go there and arrive in a timely manner.

The obverse of the last statement is another naive reality: The Large, Private Vehicle Mobility Myth.

Citizens, Households, Agencies, Enterprises and Institutions cannon afford to continue to pay those subsidies.

The good news is that even HUD is now cranking up location efficient programs.

But how to overcome ‘naive realism’ and the power of Myths?

A place to start is an understanding of the Five Natural Laws of Human Settlement.

BACK TO THE START

Later Observer said in answer to a question with respect to the gasoline tax addressed to EMR:

“EMR is apparently out of range and so I have no way to find out for sure but I suspect he would agree with Mr. Bacon:

“Raising the gas tax is the easiest first step.

“With tolls it is hard to sort fish from fowl. Because of the design of the Interstates it is hard to sort ‘commuters’ from InterRegional traffic.

“The bigger issue, which EMR has made clear often is that one simple tax or fee on this or that is only a band aid.

[And here comes the sentence that kicked off the naive realism discussion.]

“A Critical Mass of citizens must understand the need for Fundamental Transformations and support a comprehensive program [to achieve those Fundamental Transformations.]

“Anything less will doom contemporary, technology-based civilization.

“Sort of like a leaking well in the Gulf of Mexico. The longer nothing is done, the worse it will get until there comes a point of no return.

“Observer”

That is a good answer and is included here to put in context the sentence that TMT disliked and to demonstrate why naive reality, aka Myths are so damaging in the voting booth and in the marketplace.

Oh yes, TMT’s question:

“What four understandable and fair steps, besides raising the gas tax, would make incremental progress to EMR’s goal?”

Well, the Six Overarching Strategies are a place to start – once one has a grasp of the reality of human settlement patterns.

EMR


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Comments

18 responses to “ROADBLOCKS”

  1. E M Risse Avatar
    E M Risse

    EMR received the following Email from JPN:

    “As you know, I stop by BaconsRebellionBlog from time to time. Over the last day I saw several comments on this post that later disappeared. What is the story?

    “By the way, the comments did not have much substance so I did not miss them, just wondering what happened.

    JPN”

    JPN and others, here is the story:

    You may have missed a prior notice:

    Due to frequent requests by readers, when a comment is intended only to belittle, ridicule or demean the original post, the poster or another commenter, it will be removed.

    EMR is a strong supporter of the freedom of speech.

    EMR is also a strong supporter of the freedom from demeaning and sarcastic ridicule.

    Ask questions, state contrary opinions, but please refrain from acting like a snaggle-toothed bully tossing rocks at a dentists office.

    Civil discourse is especially important when considering topics like ‘naive reality.’

    As anyone who reads this Blog knows, many do not yet agree with EMR on some topics. That is fine and why he posts here rather than retreating to some safe place on the web where everyone already agrees with him.

    By the way when EMR has a chance he re-post the item on METRO that had to be taken down because of irrelevant broadsides.

    EMR

  2. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    "EMR is a strong supporter of the freedom of speech."

    Well, then let me speak.

    Ray Hyde

  3. Groveton Avatar
    Groveton

    Some years ago I posted a comment which was no more than an insult about one of the bloggers here on the site. It had no humor, it was not satire. As I recall, I invited one of the people posting comments to pull his head out of his … well, let's just say it was insulting.

    Jim Bacon posted a comment specifically attacking my inappropriate comment. He quickly and logically pointed out why it was an inappropriate ad hominum attack. He did not delete the original comment. I deleted it. Jim's points were well taken and, in my anger, I had posted an inappropriate comment and diminished my own argument.

    Perhaps the same could be done here?

  4. Larry G Avatar
    Larry G

    well I have a couple of comments.

    first, is this the first time that EMR has opined that Functional Change might be "impossible"?

    and Second, this passage:

    "… Because of the design of the Interstates it is hard to sort ‘commuters’ from InterRegional traffic."

    sounds like "Interregional Traffic" is considered "legitimate" in the function settlement context but I'm not sure.. what it is (after we discount "illegitimate" commuting traffic.

    and EMR specifically casts doubt on the the use of tolls … … suggesting perhaps that interregional traffic might not be tolled?

    I'm not sure either – how you'd segregate the uses of the same corridor in the way EMR seems to be thinking but governments have decided to prioritize and incentivize transit and carpool uses … at least until the HOT lane concept came along where they have decided to "sell" the unused capacity to the highest bidders.

    A corollary issue:

    Alexandria, by the way, has filed a lawsuit that essentially questions the HOT lane concept of selling trips to solo cars in that they are challenging the fact that the traffic studies apparently ignored and/or assume that surface street traffic in Alexandria would not be substantially different if the excess HOT Lane capacity was sold to solo cars.

  5. E M Risse Avatar
    E M Risse

    Larry:

    Good observations!

    “first, is this the first time that EMR has opined that Functional Change might be "impossible"?

    I think you meant “Fundamental Transformation to functional settlement patterns might be impossible.”

    But either way, it is not the first time.

    Had humans started to make the Transformations with respect to petroleum, energy consumption (and consumption in general) that were obviously necessary in 1973, contemporary society could have sailed into the future without any noticeable loss in quality of life for the vast majority in the Ziggurat.

    EMRs Household made a lot of those changes in 1973 but not enough Households did and then we had ‘morning in America,’ the rebirth of Andy Jackson’s delusions and American Gingoism.

    Had humans started to make those Transformations following the road map laid out in The Shape of the Future in 2000, there would have been distress but it was doable.

    There was a lot more Natural Capital left to invest wisely in a sustainable trajectory.

    In 2010? It is an open question. The amount of change (aka, sacrifice at both the top and the bottom of the Ziggurat) will be far greater.

    And then there is the question of genetic proclivities…

    More on this topic in “DeGrowth: Shrink to Survive and THEN Prosper.” In the meantime take a look at Richard Florida’s new book The Great Reset.

    “and Second, this passage:

    “"… Because of the design of the Interstates it is hard to sort ‘commuters’ from InterRegional traffic."”

    “sounds like "Interregional Traffic" is considered "legitimate" in the function settlement context but I'm not sure.. what it is (after we discount "illegitimate" commuting traffic.”

    “and EMR specifically casts doubt on the use of tolls … … suggesting perhaps that interregional traffic might not be tolled?”

    Sorry to cause confusion. Both need to be tolled, but perhaps at different rates, etc.

    Gas tax, intelligent tolls, consumption tax, all part of the picture but FIRST;

    “A CRITICAL MASS OF CITIZENS MUST UNDERSTAND THE NEED FOR FUNDAMENTAL TRANSFORMATION”

    EMR

  6. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    MGM (Marcellus Gas Man) here:

    To underscore Dr. Risse’s point do a survey of 10 people to see how their views have changed over the last 47 days. Those pictures of oiled birds are very powerful. The price of petroleum and the impact on the economy will be much greater and come much faster than if hard-to-reach and dangerous-to-recover Natural Capital had been treated differently.

    Also wanted to point out the Gulf in not the only place where there are problems. Here in Marcellus Shale Country we had a blow out yesterday that has been downplayed in MainStream Media. (I think it is not called Enterprise Media, right?)

    What ever is in that HydroFracking ‘fluid’ must be pretty potent. The FAA redirected all air traffic away form the site near I-80 in central PA.

    Groveton makes a good point with respect to “RH.” As some may recall RH stated he was an expert on HydroFracking indicated he know all about the subterranean and surface impact on fossil water, water tables and surface water , etc. Later he claimed to be an ‘environmental chenist (sic)’ if that means ‘environmental chemist,’ perhaps he could prepare a guest post using his professional resources to lay out what we are not able to find out about the range of potential impacts here in Upstate New York. That would be more helpful than just sniping at Prof. Risse.

    MGM

  7. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    RH read the first part of the couplet but not the second:

    “EMR is a strong supporter of the freedom of speech.”

    “EMR is also a strong supporter of the freedom from demeaning and sarcastic ridicule.”

    For the record what infuriates those who follow Dr. Risse’s work the most about RH’s comments are primarily four things:

    First and foremost, the demeaning tone of many remarks. Others like Larry seem to tolerate this, we find it abhorrent.

    Second, how municipal regulations have impinged on his inalienable rights and exaggerations about what municipal officials have said concerning those rights.

    Third, his failure to understand the need for Balance between self-centered property interests and enlightened self-interest-based community interests and community responsibilities.

    And fourth, his fained familiarity with Dr. Risse, what he does and what he believes in:

    For example Prof. Risse has said repeatedly that he has already made as much money as he intends to make. If he wanted to sell a lot of books he would write books that sell a lot of copies, not ones that citizens need to read.

    Risse charges for books and CDs and for his time, not because he wants to make money but because in the current competition driven society (“Fundamental Theses Three: Competition is in the drivers seat of contemporary civilization” Box 1 Chapter 1) if one does not pay for something, it has no value.

    On the other hand, RH sometimes makes interesting observations and keeps some things in perspective.

    Perhaps he will take up MGM’s challenge and make a positive contribution.

    AZA

  8. Let's clear things up.

    I am an environmental analytical chemist by training and experience. During the eight years I spent in that field my specialty was analyzing tracfe level chemicals in the environment, including atmospheric Sulfur and particulates, water pollution, and soil pollution. I worked on developing and verifying new methods for detecting and analyzing pollutants in the environment, and those methods were then used to determine the efficiency of various remediation methods. Many of the compounds I studied were related to munitions. Later, in another capacity, I worked on models to predict the travel of toxic plumes in the urban street canyon environment. I am co-author of two patents and several papers.

    I worked my way through college in various manufacturing jobs: printing, yacht construction, construction of a power plant, and munitions. Every day I used pwoerful and dangerous chemicals to manufacure useful and valuable things, and then I studied what they did to the environment.

    As a result of certain expertise, I later spent two years working on an advanced hydrofracking project. I never claimed to be an expert on hydrofracking mud, but I can tell you that it is mostly clay, soap, and lubricants. It is a mixture of things more than a chemical as beer is a mixture and ethano a chemical.I have had my hands in it, and I still have hands. Beer is probably a lot more dangerous and killed more people. The hydrofracking project was successful, but the price of oil declined at that time and the process was never commercialized.

    When I went back to graduate level studies for the second time, I studied environmental and energy economics, economics of mineral deposits, oceanography, geochemistry, economics, finance, business law, advanced math and statistics (again) and systems engineering. I specialize in marketing of technology.

    When I was working in the remediation field, I saw and monitored cleanups that I intuitively thought were a collossal waste of money and resources. I used to say that our largest environmental solid waste problem was the legal paper associated with all the lawsuits.

    Later, studying environmental economics I learned that my intitive feeling was probably correct and that the waste in excess cleanup could be measured. The combination of industrial and analytical experience gave me a unique view of what chemicals can do, and what the costs are.

    I would be the first to agree that we have a problem with chemicals in the environment. I know, for example, that you can smell the city of Lisbon two hundred miles out to sea. But, I observe a national phobia against all chemicals, with a corresponding (stated) willingess to spend "any amount" to prevent damage and work on cleanup.

    Especially if we can delude ourselves that it is someone else's money we are spending.

    In the gulf, we are about to find out what "any amount" is.

  9. On the other hand, RH sometimes makes interesting observations and keeps some things in perspective.

    Perhaps he will take up MGM’s challenge and make a positive contribution.

    I am a scientist by training. My favorite business card simply said Principal Research Scientist.

    When I make an interesting observation, I don't care if it is positive or negative, so long as it is correct. If I cannot have correct, I'll settle for reproducible.

    I'm not a policy wonk, and EMR has said that he sees this lack of agenda on my part as waffling.

    I see it as professionalism, the ability to admit when I'm wrong or when there are new conditions: to change tack when necessary.

  10. Finally, if EMR is a strong supporter of the freedom from demeaning and sarcastic ridicule, it is most certainly not observable from his writing. I believe it is he who shows the most frequent and blatant disregard for the rules of civility that Jim Bacon posted on this blog.

    I, too, will concede to having made some heated remarks, early on, but I have since tried to focus on what I see as errors in logic, fact, or economics, and leave the personalities out. For all my sailing experience from dinghies, to iceboats to square riggers, I have never observed the boat is going any faster just because the captain is screaming.

    I'm trying to take that observation to heart in my own demeanor.

    I'm a little New England Dry. I'm sorry if EMR interprets that as demeaning and sarcastic ridicule. If he is so sensitive, he'd never make it through an ordinary dinner with my family.

    Yet it is EMR that has mastered the falsely obtuse insult, and oblique self-aggrandizement.

    I don't claim to have invented five natural laws, for example, or understand the workings of human settlement patterns that are far more complex than the human body.

    EMR has spent a long time putting together (and rationalizing) his idea of how things might be in his ideal world. We are not so far apart in our views of many things.

    EMR thinks costs should be "fairly allocated". I think the way to do that is have markets in nearly everything, and let people put their money where their mouth is.

    I am pragmatic. I figure we have to start with whatever we have now, and work with the resources we can generate and save (over and above our basic needs) as we go along. It takes a good economy to do that, not one one that we diliberately shrank.

    Even so, We had best not waste one cent helping one person more than another by cleaning up one problem more expensively than another. If we achieve that we will have fairly allocated costs.

    But for making such simple observations I get attacked,and lied about.

    Attacking me personally as a liar, a paid henchman, or an idiot of various kinds, or insubstantial and irrelevant, has become a group sport among some anonymous persons here. Every time that happens I simply accept it as evidence that they could not refute whatever inconvenient arguments or facts I was putting forward.

    Mostly, the ideas I promote are not mine, and I provide links to my source of facts. There is no point in attacking me because of them, but I understand the kind of mental indigestion that occurs when you collide with a fact that does not fit what you believe.

    But, if you don't like the message, attack the messenger: it is a common enough event to be easily recognizable.

    In the end, it does not change the argument.

    Now, just to see how important all this is, somewhere out there is a widget that calculates the value of blogs. I've lost the link, but as I recall, according tothe widget, BR is not worth all that much.

  11. I have never exaggerated anything I have attributed as a direct quote from municipal officials.

    As in, no, you cannot expand your drainfield because your ground does not drain fast enough and you cnnot put in a pond because your ground drains too fast.

    That is a true story.

    So are the rest of them, of which my favorite is "My plan for your property is to have someone wealthy buy it….."

    RH

  12. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    If I were your supervisor and had to deal with you, that is exactly whay I would say too.

    CJC

  13. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    I do not find your comments very helpful.

    We are not concerned that our hands fall off from touching HydroFracking mud.

    Our concern is not addressed by your insulting beer analogies. We are concerned with the impact of Marcellus Shale Gas well failures (or successes) on watertables, wells and drinking water. Especially the water consumed by pregnant women and young children and water used in gardens and in agriculture.

    Why is that so hard for you to understand?

    It is clear why your comments irritate so many.

    If you really had all the experiences and education you claim, it is a shame you cannot grasp the importance of using your abilities to benefit yourself and others rather than just entertaining yourself.

    MGM

  14. If I were your supervisor and had to deal with you, that is exactly whay I would say too.

    CJC

    I don't understand your coment, please elaborate.

    I'm actually pretty easy to deal with, but are you suggesting that superviors shold govern one person differently than another?

    Are you suggesting that you believe only rich people should be able to own land?

    Are you saying that you do not support the idea that anyone should be ale to do as they please, as long as they pay their full share of costs?

    Are you saying that you support the idea of enormous subsidies in land purchase by the rich?

    Or is it simply that you cannot stand the things I say and you wish to be vindictive towrds me personally?

    My remarks on this topic were only to point out that AZA's comments in his second point are wrong. I have not exaggerated any of my stories concerning public officials.

    It is true that a public official in a democratic soociety actually publishe a letter in the paper suggesting that if I did not like the rules here, then I should move, rather than use my right to agitate for change.

    The funny part is that as I understand it, he later retired and moved out of county to a large lot community subdivided from some farm.

    RH

  15. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    I would be curious to know how AZA knows what infuriates those who follow Dr. Risse’s work the most about RH’s writings.

    Is there a club, or a blog, or a poll where they get together and talk aout such things?

    I had no idea that what I had to say would be of the least nterest to them, let alone that they would be infuriated.

    Take a walk, decompress, enjoy the flowers.

    RH

  16. Our concern is not addressed by your insulting beer analogies. We are concerned with the impact of Marcellus Shale Gas well failures (or successes) on watertables, wells and drinking water.

    OK. So you have one concern that you think should be adressed over and above any other concern.

    Even if the other concerns have greater impact on more people and are easier and less costly to fix.

    This boils down to valueing some people's life, livliehood and property more than others. It represents a situation in which those who advocate and benefit from such action are not paying their own full costs.

    My [limited] experience with drilling mud suggests to me that it is pretty much like a McDnalds milkshake, which is mostly composed of inert methyl cellulose, in that the greates part of drill mud is inert materials.

    Still, you would not want it in your drinking water.

    I don'tbeleive that drill mud was the reason for diverting air traffic around a blowout site.

    I'm sorry you thought the beer analogy was insulting. I still submit that beer will wind up damaging more people than drill mud.

    RH

  17. If he wanted to sell a lot of books he would write books that sell a lot of copies, not ones that citizens need to read.

    If I thought citizens need to read something, then I would write in such a way as to sell a lot of copies.

    Someone is going to think that observation is rude and demeaning, but it is only something that seems obvious to me. I've said before that I thought he would be a lot more sucessful at selling his ideas if he altered his writing styls and thought more about selling to an audience.

    Maybe I don't care about the money I make from hay, either, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't like to sell more at higher prices. At some price and volume, it might even be worthwile to keep the farm.

    Which is why I ma constantly amazed at EMR's disdain for profits. It is profits that will pay for all the things he thinks need to be done.

    It is profits that will save the small farms and open space, whether those profits come from the farm or not.

    That whole train of thought had nothing to do with EMR's profits, but rather with the apparent contradiction between another authors message (anti-business and profit, except for "green" business) and that authors motive (selling books for profit).

    One thing I learned in environmental ecomics is that profit is a key ingredient in sutainability.

    RH

  18. If I were your supervisor and had to deal with you, that is exactly whay I would say too.

    CJC

    =================================

    Here is another example of the problem at hand reported in the Colorado Springs Gazette.

    http://www.gazette.com/opinion/private-99845-property-view.html

    "People who live near the 12-acre site like the fact it’s vacant and would like to keep it that way — at Scholl’s expense. Some neighbors worry about more traffic as a result of new residents. Others complain they will see houses out of their windows, rather than the mountain view they have long enjoyed
    ………..
    Nobody is entitled to a view through another person’s property. Nobody is entitled to a lonely street at another person’s expense.
    ……….
    View corridors are desirable and important. So are barely-used streets that double as sidewalks. But amenities come at a cost. Those who demand them should foot the bill."

    =================================

    And here are the results of an online poll on the subject.

    ONLINE POLL

    Right to a view

    Is a view corridor reason to decline a private property owner's development rights?

    Yes, it's legal and ethical to preserve a view corridor at a private property owner's expense
    3%

    No, people who want to see through a parcel of private property should buy it
    96%

    I don't know
    0%

    I don't care
    1%

    Total Votes: 384

    RH

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