by Robin Beres

The United States has not always been a bastion of religious freedom. When Virginia became an English colony in 1607, the English considered religious differences just as treasonous as political differences. Sure, Elizabeth I had reinstalled the Church of England following Queen Mary’s tumultuous reign, but the possibility of another Catholic on the throne remained a threat for decades.

As a result, English rulers decreed the Church of England to be the only official church in Virginia. For nearly two hundred years, there was no religious freedom in the colony. Even other Protestant denominations, such as Presbyterians and Baptists, were persecuted.

It wasn’t until 1786 that the Virginia General Assembly enacted Bill No. 82, “A Bill for establishing religious freedom.” Written by Thomas Jefferson and guided through the Virginia legislature by James Madison, the bill, eventually known as the Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom, was strongly backed by leaders of other religious factions.

The bill stipulated that no government had the legitimate authority to establish or compel anyone to hold certain religious beliefs. Jefferson firmly believed that if this newly-born nation was to survive, all men must be given the freedom to determine their own beliefs.

The bill was the first attempt to get religion out of government and government out of religion. Eventually the act became the basis of the U.S. Constitution’s First Amendment declaration that “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof….” The bill also confirmed Virginia as the birthplace of America’s religious freedom.

Little wonder then why many Virginians were stunned and concerned to learn of a January memo issued by an analyst with the Richmond FBI’s field office. The memo seemed to determine there were white supremacists masquerading as Catholics who prefer the Latin Mass. The author of the “analysis” seems to have even created a name for this newly-discovered group: “Radical-Traditionalist Catholics” or RTCs.

With little to no supporting documentation, the analyst apparently believes that a preference for hearing the Catholic Mass in Latin and holding on to other traditional, pre-Vatican II beliefs is equivalent to an “adherence to anti-Semitic, anti-immigrant, anti-LGBTQ and white supremacist ideology.”

In fairness, whoever wrote the memo was magnanimous enough to draw a distinction between “traditional Catholics,” and RTCs, whom he claims espouse “more extremist ideological beliefs and violent rhetoric.” However, the writer doesn’t provide any specifics as to what differentiates a traditionalist and an RTC. Nor does he provide any evidence of exactly what those extremist beliefs and violent rhetoric are.

But the document was reviewed and OK’d for release by the Richmond bureau’s Chief Division Counsel. It was sent to field offices across the country. The memo was soon leaked to outside sources. Someone was concerned enough to notify members of Congress.

When the U.S. House Judiciary Committee was contacted about the memo earlier this year, the committee chair, Rep. Jim Jordan (R-OH), requested further information from the FBI. On March 23, the FBI sent over an 18-page “substandard and partial” heavily redacted response. But it did provide enough information to indicate that the Richmond office had employed “at least one undercover agent” in its investigations.

The Judiciary Committee issued a subpoena to FBI Director Christopher Wray demanding all records related to the probe. In an April 10 letter to Wray, Jordan wrote: “Based on the limited information produced by the FBI to the Committee, we now know that the FBI relied on at least one undercover agent to produce its analysis, and that the FBI proposed that its agents engage in outreach to Catholic parishes to develop sources among the clergy and church leadership to inform on Americans practicing their faith.”

The FBI says it is fully cooperating with congressional requests. A bureau spokesperson said “the FBI is not anti-Catholic in any way, shape, or form, and does not target people of any faith because of their religious beliefs.” He also noted that when Wray learned about the field report in early March, the director was “aghast.”

Wray says he immediately had the bureau withdraw the memo’s assessment, claiming it isn’t in line with FBI standards. When Attorney General Merrick Garland was questioned by the Senate about the investigation, he told senators: “The Justice Department does not do that, it does not do investigations based on religion. I saw the document, it’s appalling….”

The contents of the memo have generated intense backlash. Law professors at Catholic colleges and universities have commented on the “troubling” aspects of it.

Richmond’s Diocesan Bishop, Barry C. Knestout, is understandably concerned. He issued a statement noting that, “A preference for traditional forms of worship and holding closely to the Church’s teachings on marriage, family, human sexuality, and the dignity of the human person does not equate with extremism.”

Virginia Attorney General Jason Miyares and 19 other state attorneys general sent a letter to both Wray and Garland condemning the memo as “anti-Catholic” and noting “Virginia is the birthplace of religious freedom and has a long history of protecting the inalienable right to live your faith free from government interference or intimidation.”

An FBI office investigating imagined associations between white supremacists and Catholics — or any other religious group — because of their positions on things like transgender rights and abortion is very dangerous. Congress is right to delve into the origins of this memo and make sure nothing like it happens again.

If one agent in Richmond’s small FBI office can launch an attack on people of one faith, there’s no telling what the entire FBI, if it is truly weaponized and politicized, could do to people of all faiths.


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77 responses to “Richmond FBI Office Used Undercover Agents to Spy on Traditional Catholics”

  1. James McCarthy Avatar
    James McCarthy

    When stupid is disgusting, heads need to roll. More info is needed to ID the “analyst” who may have been seeking some type of undercover role. Whatever FBI counsel approved and distributed the memo must be fired along with the analyst.

    1. Charles D'Aulnais Avatar
      Charles D’Aulnais

      Well, there are a dozen, or so, radical Catholic groups who even the Pope has denounced.

      They’re antisemitic, radical, and could get violent. That they’re Catholics is secondary.

      Anyone here really want to defend FLDS groups like Warren Jeffs little group?

      1. James McCarthy Avatar
        James McCarthy

        Until such radical groups pose a demonstrable danger to others or the government, the Pope is free to condemn such groups.

        1. Charles D'Aulnais Avatar
          Charles D’Aulnais

          The Pope is always free to condemn such groups. I suppose he could even condemn the IRA.

          1. James McCarthy Avatar
            James McCarthy

            If you are asserting the IRA is a radical Catholic organization that threatens the Catholic Church, you are on strange ground.

      2. James McCarthy Avatar
        James McCarthy

        Any individual or group could get violent. That’s hardly a legal or investigative criterion. Intersectional religious disputes do not generally rise to a threat to state, national, or local security.

        1. Charles D'Aulnais Avatar
          Charles D’Aulnais

          That last sentence, perhaps you could reconsider in light of 2000 years of history. I’m betting I can provide 100s of examples. Let’s start with the Byzantine and work forward, or with Shiite-Sunni and work backwards.

          From a 1st Amendment standpoint the unfortunate feature is a religious one. The question is whether, or not, they pose a societal threat.

          1. James McCarthy Avatar
            James McCarthy

            No need to review 2000 years of history and religious conflict in foreign lands to appreciate the error made in this instance. And TY for affirming my point that the issue is whether a security (not necessarily a societal) threat is imminent.

          2. Lefty665 Avatar

            There’s always the Jesuits, the Pope’s storm troopers since the inquisition. Galileo certainly thought they were a threat.

      3. Have you not read about what was actually suggested?

        “… and that the FBI proposed that its agents engage in outreach to Catholic parishes to develop sources among the clergy and church leadership to inform on Americans practicing their faith.”

        Your entire argument is faulty.

        1. Charles D'Aulnais Avatar
          Charles D’Aulnais

          See something. Say something. Even the religious have a duty to us all.

    2. “Whatever FBI counsel approved and distributed the memo must be fired along with the analyst.”

      We often disagree, but I respect your objectivity on how this should have been handle (but to date has not been).

    3. Not JUST the analyst – but every tax payer funded FBI civil servant involved in editing, approving, and moving the memo forward.

      All must be brought before Congress to explain their actions.

      If DFBI refuses — zero out the FBI budget for the Richmond Field Office —— if this is what it is doing [that and reading Tweets rather than catching treasonous leakers and real criminals, it is no longer needed].

      1. James McCarthy Avatar
        James McCarthy

        That the head of the Catholic Church wishes to oust radical groups is not a basis for government intrusion.

    1. James McCarthy Avatar
      James McCarthy

      The FBI memo, as far as is known does not cite FISA as a justification for either an undercover or surveillance operation as reported in the Reuters piece.

  2. James McCarthy Avatar
    James McCarthy

    To be clear, one person (not yet identified as an FBI agent) did not “ launch” an attack. Moreover, when called to the attention of senior FBI leadership, the attempt was squelched as is expected of civilian agency officers. IMO, the FBI has nether been weaponized nor politicized in this regard. OTOH, it is reassuring that the agency was capable of swift action to ID and arrest the latest Pentagon rogue leaking secret military info.

    1. VaNavVet Avatar

      One analyst does not a “weaponization” make unless someone is trying out a conspiracy theory.

  3. James Wyatt Whitehead Avatar
    James Wyatt Whitehead

    Jefferson’s bill “The Statute of Religious Freedom” had been kicked around for nearly 10 years until finally passed. What prompted James Madison to revive the bill was Patrick Henry’s “A Bill Establishing a Provision for Teachers of the Christian Religion”. Henry wanted the sheriff of every county to collect revenues to support state sponsored religious education and the diffusion of knowledge.

    With the demise of the British and the decline of the Church of England it was thought that Christianity might wink out. Henry’s bill would have brought public education to Virginia, a full 90 years before it really happened. No one would have been forced to send their children to these schools. It had broad support from famed Virginian’s such as Richard Henry Lee, John Marshall, and George Washington.

    Diminutive Little Jemmy Madison outflanked the “Thunder of the Revolution”, Patrick Henry, by enlisting the support of the growing Baptists and Presbyterians of Virginia who wanted to totally separate church and state. The Baptists in particular had been severely abused by colonial Virginia, they saw Madison and Jefferson’s bill as the remedy.
    https://classroom.monticello.org/media-item/a-bill-establishing-a-provision-for-teachers-of-the-christian-religion/

    1. James McCarthy Avatar
      James McCarthy

      Perhaps, the legislators in Oklahoma could benefit from listening to your history lesson on the separation of church and state. G— knows they need it.

      1. The teachers supporting transgender beliefs would also benefit from such an education.

        On twitter, a conservative guy pretends to be a teacher proselytizing his faith to students and keeping it secret from their parents. He’s obviously doing it to demonstrate the impropriety of what teachers are actually doing with respect to the transgender belief system.

        https://twitchy.com/samj-3930/2023/04/13/carpe-donktum-trolls-the-woke-claiming-hes-a-third-grade-teacher-talking-about-jesus-and-its-glorious/

        1. James McCarthy Avatar
          James McCarthy

          The relationship of transgender issues and religion are IMO not conflatable or closely related. The Oklahoma legislators are considering approval of a religious charter school funded by taxpayers, a distinct invasion of conservative belief concerning the 1A and separation of church and state.

          1. “The relationship of transgender issues and religion are IMO not conflatable or closely related.”

            Then you have not given it much thought, at least not objective thought.

            Current transgender teaching demands that adherents take on faith that gender exists apart from the physical body. That is without question within the realm of the metaphysical, not secular fact.

            The existence of a soul which exists distinct from the body is religious dogma, and should not be taught in public schools, if we are to truly separate church and state.

            It’s a faith, and should be respected as such, but not taught.

          2. James McCarthy Avatar
            James McCarthy

            The objective thought I hold concerning transgender issues does not conclude that either “faith” or religion is involved.

          3. You are entitled to your religious beliefs, even if you don’t recognize them as such.

            What physical evidence do you have to support gender apart from one’s body?

            “Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.”

            Hebrews 11:1

          4. James McCarthy Avatar
            James McCarthy

            I never offered an opinion or any evidence concerning gender, body and/or soul only that none of those elements are unique to some one or more religions. As you state, the existence of body and soul (separate or joined) is metaphysical not necessarily religious.

          5. Lefty665 Avatar

            Thanks for the Jim McCarthy silly walks. You have done it up right once again:)

          6. “As you state, the existence of body and soul (separate or joined) is metaphysical not necessarily religious.”

            The topic isn’t unique to any one religion, just as creationism isn’t. But it IS inherently a religious belief.

            If you wish to pursue the topic in a way that conforms with transgender beliefs, I suggest you check out the work of Dr. John Finley who teaches at Holy Apostles College Seminary. His work, “The Metaphysics of Gender: A Thomistic Approach” is being supported by transgender believers.

            Creationist can’t just substitute “metaphysical” for God and say the belief isn’t religious, such that it can and should be taught in public schools. Secular teaching relies on the physical evidence.

            In the case of gender, there’s no physical evidence to support the current transgender teaching. It’s a matter of one’s own belief or faith.

          7. James McCarthy Avatar
            James McCarthy

            In your own words:
            “Current transgender teaching demands that adherents take on faith that gender exists apart from the physical body. That is without question within the realm of the metaphysical, not secular fact.”

            Secular faith has sustained many who adhere to the notion that some truths are self-evident even though they are often not observed in the secular world.

          8. “Secular faith has sustained many who adhere to the notion that some truths are self-evident even though they are often not observed in the secular world.”

            Yes, but what is self evident? It’s not that humans have a soul with a gender separate from the body.

            The transgender community jumps the track into religion when they insist that they ARE X gender as much as those born that way.

            If transgender activists would limit themselves to what is, in some cases, self evident, then I would have no problem with that.

            What is self evident is that some people prefer to live life as a gender different from their body at birth. That’s far different from saying their new gender is objective reality because inside, their soul is a gender different from their body.

            In the secular world, people should accept reality.

            https://twitter.com/Caitlyn_Jenner/status/1635731214463283200?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1635731214463283200%7Ctwgr%5E8cd1094dfcc57a34c8a8c7214da8ed74fb78b507%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.newsweek.com%2Fcaitlyn-jenner-comments-trans-people-sports-sparks-discussion-1788169

          9. It will never be self-evident to me that a person with a penis is female.

          10. James McCarthy Avatar
            James McCarthy

            Excellent! Who advocated that view?

          11. You want to know “Who advocated that view?”

            The woke!

            Woman:

            Female human being; a person assigned a female sex at birth, or a person who defines herself as a woman.

            https://eige.europa.eu/thesaurus/terms/1430#:~:text=Female%20human%20being%3B%20a%20person,defines%20herself%20as%20a%20woman.

          12. “Who advocated that view?”

            Cambridge Dictionary

            Woman:

            an adult female human being

            an adult who lives and identifies as female though they may have been said to have a different sex at birth

            https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/woman

          13. Seven past and present sorority members are suing the Kappa Kappa Gamma sisterhood for its 2022 decision to admit transgender inductee Artemis Langford to the University of Wyoming chapter.

            “An adult human male does not become a woman just because he tells others that he has a female ‘gender identity’ and behaves in what he believes to be a stereotypically female manner,” reads a legal complaint filed Monday in the U.S. District Court for Wyoming.

            “The Fraternity Council has betrayed the central purpose and mission of Kappa Kappa Gamma by conflating the experience of being a woman with the experience of men engaging in behavior generally associated with women.”

            “Smith” is 21 years old, is 6 feet, 2 inches tall and weighs 260 pounds, the document says, adding, “No other member of Kappa Kappa Gamma has comparable size or strength.”

            Langford is “sexually interested in women,” the lawsuit alleges, adding that “Smith” – Langford – has a profile on Tinder “through which he seeks to meet women.”

            “Mr. Smith has, while watching members enter the sorority house, had an erection visible through his leggings,” the suit says. “Other times, he has had a pillow in his lap.”

            https://cowboystatedaily.com/2023/03/28/women-sue-university-of-wyoming-sorority-for-accepting-transgender-member/

          14. “Secular faith has sustained many who adhere to the notion that some truths are self-evident even though they are often not observed in the secular world.”

            Yes, but what is self evident? It’s not that humans have a soul with a gender separate from the body.

            The transgender community jumps the track into religion when they insist that they ARE X gender as much as those born that way.

            If transgender activists would limit themselves to what is, in some cases, self evident, then I would have no problem with that, providing they don’t proselytize to children, have respect for parents, etc.

            What is self evident is that some people prefer to live life as a gender different from their body at birth. That’s far different from saying their new gender is objective reality because inside, their soul is a gender different from their body.

            In the secular world, people should accept reality. Biological males are different from biological females for example.

            https://twitter.com/Caitlyn_Jenner/status/1635731214463283200?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1635731214463283200%7Ctwgr%5E8cd1094dfcc57a34c8a8c7214da8ed74fb78b507%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.newsweek.com%2Fcaitlyn-jenner-comments-trans-people-sports-sparks-discussion-1788169

          15. James McCarthy Avatar
            James McCarthy

            I’ll accept those expressions by the FFs as to the few self-evident truths. Much else vast majorities believe may change, e.g., chattel slavery is not moral though it was accepted for thousands of years. Yesterday’s and today’s realities may be less discernible or important later or even factual.

          16. Much more would be self evident if people would put aside their religious zeal and just open their eyes.

            It is well know that males commit more crimes than females. Guess what, transitioning to female doesn’t change that.

            The researchers state:
            ‘male-to-females . . . retained a male pattern regarding criminality. The same was true regarding violent crime.

            MtF transitioners were over 6 times more likely to be convicted of an offence than female comparators and 18 times more likely to be convicted of a violent offence. The group had
            no statistically significant differences from other natal males, for convictions in general or
            for violent offending. The group examined were those who committed to surgery, and so were more tightly defined than a population based solely on self-declaration.

            https://committees.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/18973/pdf/

      2. n Witters v. Washington Department of Social Services for the Blind (1986), the petitioner, suffering from a progressive eye condition, applied to the State of Washington for a scholarship to attend a private Christian college. He sought training to become a pastor or youth director.

        The Court upheld the scholarship program because it benefited students attending any kind of school, not just religious ones. This principle of “neutrality” may be viewed as part of a trend toward upholding state assistance to religiously affiliated colleges and universities.

        https://www.mtsu.edu/first-amendment/article/903/aid-to-religious-colleges-and-universities#:~:text=Many%20religiously%20affiliated%20colleges%20and,repair%20facilities%20on%20their%20campuses.

        Want more examples?

      3. Not sure what area of law you practiced but I’m guessing it wasn’t the application of the First Amendment to religious institutions receiving support from the government.

        Many religiously affiliated colleges and universities receive financial assistance from the federal government in the form of grants or subsidized loans to construct or repair facilities on their campuses.

        https://www.mtsu.edu/first-amendment/article/903/aid-to-religious-colleges-and-universities#:~:text=Many%20religiously%20affiliated%20colleges%20and,repair%20facilities%20on%20their%20campuses.

        1. James McCarthy Avatar
          James McCarthy

          SCOTUS and other courts have affirmed that government financial assistance to individuals, even those attending religious institutions, does not violate separation since such aid is available to all students. Similarly, the same conclusion has been reached where such aid assists construction or repairs at religious institutions which do not discriminate admission or attendance based upon religion.

          The proposed legislation in OK is different because the financial aid is to be received by a religious institution for the benefit of those members of the religion.

          I understand these distinctions are not appreciated by all.

          1. The point seems moot.

            “Okla. church denied in bid for first publicly funded U.S. religious school”

            https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2023/04/12/oklahoma-religious-charter-school-catholic/

            But based on your comments, would you agree that vouchers received by students and taken to the school of their choice would be permissible?

          2. James McCarthy Avatar
            James McCarthy

            Under present court decisions, vouchers available to all and used to attend a religious school may pass the separation threshold. At the same time, however, vouchers – where a jurisdiction has not established accessible alternative public schools – may be simply an end run to violation of the separation principle. This might easily occur in areas where wealth divides neighborhoods. This strategy was employed for massive resistance.

    2. If public schools are to maintain neutrality, then transgender proselytizing must stop.

      Below is a Twitter thread that uses satire to demonstrate the point. (Many of those responding apparently don’t realize that it is satire).

      As a 3rd grade teacher, I often talk about Jesus with my students, they are so excited to hear about my faith. They point to the cross on wall and ask me about the resurrection.

      Some have gotten baptized in the sink, as long as they don’t tell their parents. It’s our secret.

      I want you guys to understand something, I am NOT grooming these young apostles, THEY COME TO ME and I follow their questions back to it’s source

      These kids feel something is not right inside them and I help them to understand that Jesus is what they are missing in their life

      There has been a lot of interest from my students about circumcision but unfortunately I haven’t been able to find a surgeon willing to do these spirit affirming surgeries anonymously.

      If anyone in the Kansas City area knows anyone willing to help save these kids, let me know.

      https://twitchy.com/samj-3930/2023/04/13/carpe-donktum-trolls-the-woke-claiming-hes-a-third-grade-teacher-talking-about-jesus-and-its-glorious/

      1. That’s good satire. Subtle, matter-of-fact, and it uses phrasing quite similar to that of others who want to keep secrets from children’s parents.

        1. Unfortunately the satire doesn’t include the part where non-believers are punished.

          In real life, teacher having a different opinion or using the wrong pronoun is blasphemy against the state religion, and cannot be tolerated. So what if it forces people to speak in a way that contradicts their faith.

          I’m willing to except others faith, but they need to reciprocate. We don’t want a state sanctioned religion.

  4. William Chambliss Avatar
    William Chambliss

    Yet another unsourced hysterical report on BR. Please, some attribution for this.

      1. William Chambliss Avatar
        William Chambliss

        Thanks. There were no links in the original story.

        The tone of the story IS hysterical and it’s not as if the Catholic church has not harbored more than its share of lawbreakers over the years.

        1. You apparently have a very different definition of hysteria than I.

          1. William Chambliss Avatar
            William Chambliss

            The headline of this article is “Richmond FBI office used undercover agents to spy on traditional Catholics.” There were no links provided for such a provocative statement. You put up a link to a web article and a press release from Rep. Jim Jordan. I read them both. I found no evidence in support of the statement i) that the Richmond office used undercover agents (note plural) ii) to spy on iii) traditional Catholics.

            The Richmond office has an analyst assessing white supremacist terrorist threats to national security. In this analyst’s assessment such groups may be aligning with non-traditional Catholic splinter groups. The assessment is quite clear on that point. Further, there is no evidence that the singular undercover agent that Jordan’s press release points to was planted in any church related organization. I’d say it’s more likely that if such source WAS used, it was within the supremacists ranks. That certainly has ample precedent.

            So yes, that’s hysterical and it’s unsurprising that Ms Beres did not source her rant. YMMV

          2. You put up a link to a web article and a press release from Rep. Jim Jordan.

            I put up nothing. I merely read the article and found it bereft of hysterical language.

        2. walter smith Avatar
          walter smith

          The Catholic Church? I’m not even Catholic and I take offense!
          How about atheists? New Agers? Secular humanists?
          What “religion” were all the unarrested rioters during Floydapalooza?
          The “hysterical” tone, if hysterical, is deserved. It was an unconstitutional outrage. By our own government. Aimed at people who differ over Catholic doctrine. Again, outrageous.

          1. William Chambliss Avatar
            William Chambliss

            Smith, are you completely unaware of the decades long child sex scandals involving hundreds (at least) of priests? The hundreds of millions the Church has paid in settlement of the abuse charges?

          2. James McCarthy Avatar
            James McCarthy

            What’s the connection to the Richmond FBI document?

          3. William Chambliss Avatar
            William Chambliss

            Smith takes umbrage at my general statement that “the Catholic church has ….. harbored more than its share of lawbreakers..”

            Which it has, whether the Richmond FBI office has taken notice or not.

          4. walter smith Avatar
            walter smith

            Which has what to do with domestic violent extremists? And that was pedo priests, not parishioners.

        3. James McCarthy Avatar
          James McCarthy

          Not all lawbreaking is a threat to the nation’s security interests. While the Berrigan brothers went to some extremes, their protest was peaceful. Dorothy Day also protested peacefully as did many nuns in protest marches against the Viet Nam war.

  5. Jonathan DeWilicker Avatar
    Jonathan DeWilicker

    Make no doubt about it, the entire federal government has declared war on anything traditionally associated with European cultural values. They aren’t even hiding it.

  6. Stephen Haner Avatar
    Stephen Haner

    Gee, the FBI being used for political purposes. That never happened before. It was so clean under Hoover…..

  7. Peter Galuszka Avatar
    Peter Galuszka

    Good piece. I would not say, however, that the federal government has typically investigated Catholic groups of the right wing variety.

    In the 1960s, I went to a Jesuit high school in Maryland. Our heroes were Daniel Berrigan, a Jesuit priest, and his brother, also a priest. They were radical, anti-Vietnam War leftists. They broke into a local draft board and started burning draft documents. I also believe they poured ducks’ blood on them.Fr. Daniel made the FBI’s most wanted list. He also made the cover of Time magazine and perhaps a mention in Paul Simons’ song as the “radical priest” in “My and Julio Down By the School Yard.”

    1. James McCarthy Avatar
      James McCarthy

      Some on this platform characterize the Jesuits as “storm troopers” for the Pope. My collegiate experience with Jesuits parallels yours and they remain in my admiration.

      1. Lefty665 Avatar

        Some on this platform characterize the Jesuits as “storm troopers” for the Pope.

        Well they were. To deny that is to deny the reality of 400 years as storm troopers for the Pope. Terrorist threats to every society they infest.

        The Berrigan’s tried hard, but their individual acts of courage and integrity are not enough to offset Jesuit terror going back to threatening Galileo with the rack, torture to force him to recant truth, that the earth is not the center of the universe.

        You can deny it all you want, but that is just another Jim McCarthy silly walk. Congrats.

        1. James McCarthy Avatar
          James McCarthy

          All are grateful for your support of Galileo. Love to learn of something more contemporary about the terrorist threats of the Jesuits when you arrive in the present. Are you the first to characterize the Jesuits as storm troopers?

          1. Stephen Haner Avatar
            Stephen Haner

            Sheesh. So few here really know Anerican history so no surprise they are ignorant about the Reformation. Leo’s storm troopers indeed…..

          2. James McCarthy Avatar
            James McCarthy

            Occasionally it’s astonishing to read opinions of history that are only memes or unsubstantiated tropes wrapped in provocative language to suggest reality.

          3. Lefty665 Avatar

            aka Jim McCarthy’s silly walks.

          4. Lefty665 Avatar

            Are you the first to characterize the Jesuits as storm troopers?

            No, it’s been an ongoing trope along with “rigid and judgemental” for nigh unto 400 years. Galileo was an early adopter, from ample experience.

          5. James McCarthy Avatar
            James McCarthy

            Well now, that’s historically refreshing despite being a mere assertion without evidence or citation. I don’t know what tropes you trope with but perhaps you actually wished to label Jesuits as Gestapo, or GRU, or Stasi to be more accurate. Storm troopers had no reputation for the rack or torture. When you finally escape from the time warp in which you find yourself, please share some of the scholarly records to support your opinions. O/wise, folks may conclude you’ve been infected with silly walk syndrome.

            BTW, your use of the past tense “were” attests to some accuracy in your comment. Nice. Enjoy your fantasies.

          6. Lefty665 Avatar

            You’re the only one thusly infected. That’s why they’re eponymous. Congrats.

            Historical records, start with Galileo, and work forward from there.

          7. James McCarthy Avatar
            James McCarthy

            It’s exhausting reading through the voluminous records you provide as evidence of Jesuit storm trooping since Galileo. How do you manage to boggle so great a mountain of info. Thanx.

          8. Lefty665 Avatar

            You are welcome. Cognition is what it is, less boggling to some of us than others.

    2. Stephen Haner Avatar
      Stephen Haner

      The chair of the religion department at W&M when I was a major was a friend of the Berrigan’s, also a “former” priest (if they can be former.) As I wrote yesterday, W&M was no hotbed of consevatism even then. 🙂

    1. James McCarthy Avatar
      James McCarthy

      Is Biden managing this without assistance from Jesuit storm troopers? PTL for linking the WE unbiased view.

      1. Lefty665 Avatar

        Probably not, and always a pleasure to widen your horizons beyond the echo chamber you usually inhabit.

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