by James A. Bacon

Richmond’s statue of Christopher Columbus is heading to upstate New York. It’s a sad, sad tale.

At the height of the George Floyd “mostly peaceful” protests, leftist militants tore down the statue in Byrd Park, spray-painted it, set it on fire and threw it into nearby Fountain Lake. They claimed to be motivated by solidarity with America’s indigenous population.

Americans don’t honor Columbus for his mistreatment of native Americans; they honor him for his discovery of the Western Hemisphere. But militants do remember him for his abuse of the natives, which, apparently, is far more worthy of singling out for moral condemnation than native American societies that engaged in incessant warfare, enslavement and/or human sacrifice of one another.

Bearing the guilt of Western Civilization, Columbus also gets blamed for the demographic disaster that befell indigenous societies from disease… as if the Eastern and Western hemispheres would have never come into contact and native Americans would never have been exposed to diseases that had ravaged Europe, Asia and much of Africa for millennia. The Vikings had “discovered” North America centuries before, John Cabot discovered the Grand Banks fishery off Newfoundland for the English in 1498, and Vasco da Gama sailed around Africa the same year to reach India. Some even argue that ships from the Ming Dynasty’s Grand Fleet made it to the New World in the early 1400s.

Contact between the continents was inevitable, and so was the spread of disease. No one deserves blame, especially in a world that had no concept of germ theory, for this tragic development.

Many Americans are historical illiterates, however, so Columbus makes an easy scapegoat.

Italian-Americans still hold Columbus, who was Genoese in origin, in high esteem. The local Italian-American community was responsible for erecting the statue in the first place, overcoming opposition in the 1920s from officials who said Columbus was a foreigner and a Catholic and had no place in Richmond. Fast forward nearly a century: Richmond City Council made no move to restore the statue to its original place in Byrd Park, but it did vote to donate it to the Italian American Cultural Association of Virginia, which proceeded to refurbish it. No one in Richmond wanted to house the statue, so the Association found it a new home with the Sons of Italy in upstate New York.

The Richmond Times-Dispatch has the story here.

Columbus was not a saint. He was not a man of the 21st century. He engaged in many of the same brutal behaviors that were commonly practiced and rarely condemned in societies around the world. But his voyages to the New World altered the course of history. Richmond is the poorer for blotting out his memory.

 


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102 responses to “Restoring Columbus”

  1. Nancy Naive Avatar
    Nancy Naive

    “Americans don’t honor Columbus for his mistreatment of native Americans, they honor him for his discovery of the Western Hemisphere.”

    Americans knew the western hemisphere was here all along. They didn’t know the eastern hemisphere was there, and filled with cruel people.

    You say potato…

  2. You are still stuck on this idea that we can’t learn about historical figures without erecting statues of them. We can! I somehow learned who Columbus was without seeing a single piece of the man in bronze.

    Also, it was more than the spreading of disease, which would have been simply a tragic situation. Murder, pillaging, and slavery of the natives he encountered; Columbus was a nasty piece of work, and trying to justify it by saying some of the tribes also weren’t perfect angels is just beyond sick. These were self-proclaimed men of God, and last I checked the Ten Commandments existed in the 1500s. Stop acting like “don’t murder” was some wild moral concept that wouldn’t come around for another few centuries.

  3. How many of those offended by Columbus, privately, and maybe even publicly, praise Lenon, Mao, Stalin or the "virtues" of socialism or communism? I bet quite a few.

    1. Nancy Naive Avatar
      Nancy Naive

      Maybe, but it’s irony that the Democrat best positioned to weather Trump’s economic policies was Bob Menendez.

      1. Marty Chapman Avatar
        Marty Chapman

        link to Columbus?

        1. Nancy Naive Avatar
          Nancy Naive

          That’s a good question there Marty. What is the link to Columbus? What link does the United States have to Columbus? If anything we should be tearing down statues of Christopher Newport. It should be Newport Square.

          1. Marty Chapman Avatar
            Marty Chapman

            My! My! A little prodding and Naive becomes Nasty! Of course, the nasty was never too far below the surface. Tearing down seems to be what you do best!

          2. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            Good answer, Marty. You’ve made the connection between the 15th century Spanish monarchy and an Italian mercenary with the United States perfectly clear.

            Could you provide a link perhaps?

          3. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            Good answer, Marty. You’ve made the connection between the 15th century Spanish monarchy and an Italian mercenary with the United States perfectly clear.

            Could you provide a link perhaps?

          4. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            Nasty. Is that a trump word. Sounds personal.

    2. LarrytheG Avatar
      LarrytheG

      Not "offended" but staunchly opposed to ANY leader who would subjugate others no matter what their "cause" or "beliefs" are.

      And oppose ANY memorial to any such person who would do or has done such things and again, no matter their reason or justification for doing so.

      1. WayneS Avatar

        The Bronze Horseman was completed in 1782 by Étienne Maurice Falconet, who began work on it in 1768. It is considered to be one of the greatest examples of an equestrian statuary in the history of the world. The poem "The Bronze Horseman" written by Aleksandr Pushkin in 1833 and inspired by the statue, is a masterpiece of Russian literature.

        Yet, if you had your way, you would assign modern moral values and legal practices to people who lived more than 300 years ago and have it all destroyed.

        How very open-minded of you.

        1. LarrytheG Avatar
          LarrytheG

          Did the bronze horseman subjugate other people or is it just a simple bronze horseman?

          Why would I care if it was just a simple bronze horseman to start with any more than I would care about a statue of Danny Thomas or Harriet Tubman?

          Never advocated destruction but understand how it happens.

          It's fine to move them to a non-public places instead where people that do want to see them can and others who do not and do not revere them are not forced to.

          Respect all people in public places. Don't have one group force their heritage on others whose ancestors might have been victims of such heritage.

          1. WayneS Avatar

            I'm left shaking my head.

            The Bronze Horseman is an equestrian statue of Peter the Great. It has stood in Senate Square in St. Petersburg for almost 250 years.

          2. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            Really, and the significance to Columbus is what?

          3. WayneS Avatar

            Nothing. I was responding to : Not "offended" but staunchly opposed to ANY leader who would subjugate others no matter what their "cause" or "beliefs" are.

            You wrote "ANY leader". I assumed you meant any leader. If you don't mean what you say, then why say it?

          4. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            I still mean it. I remain opposed to memorializing anyone

            who was/is responsible for subjugating others,

            and especially so in this country and in the public realm where descendants of the victims of such people still live and work. It's not their heritage and they certainly probably don't appreciate it memorialized.

            Did Peter the Great subjugate others?
            How do the people who currently live there
            feel about it?

            Ya'll are way out over your proverbial skiis here.

            I don't even think Columbus set foot in the USA America , right?

        2. Nancy Naive Avatar
          Nancy Naive

          I think there is distinction between “for the public” and “to the public” here that must be made.

          Personally, I don’t think much of the work of Jackson Pollock, which is why I don’t carry a black light into hotel rooms, but it is creative and considered worthy of display for any wishing to see it.

          The same is true of sculpture and statuary. The question is “where in our house do we put it”? Front lawn? Back garden? Or, garage? It’s the public’s wall. The public gets to decide what hangs on it. And, that decision is continuous. It is being discussed.

        3. Nancy Naive Avatar
          Nancy Naive

          I think there is distinction between “for the public” and “to the public” here that must be made.

          Personally, I don’t think much of the work of Jackson Pollock, which is why I don’t carry a black light into hotel rooms, but it is creative and considered worthy of display for any wishing to see it.

          The same is true of sculpture and statuary. The question is “where in our house do we put it”? Front lawn? Back garden? Or, garage? It’s the public’s wall. The public gets to decide what hangs on it. And, that decision is continuous. It is being discussed.

        4. Nancy Naive Avatar
          Nancy Naive

          I think there is distinction between “for the public” and “to the public” here that must be made.

          Personally, I don’t think much of the work of Jackson Pollock, which is why I don’t carry a black light into hotel rooms, but it is creative and considered worthy of display for any wishing to see it.

          The same is true of sculpture and statuary. The question is “where in our house do we put it”? Front lawn? Back garden? Or, garage? It’s the public’s wall. The public gets to decide what hangs on it. And, that decision is continuous. It is being discussed.

      2. WayneS Avatar

        Barack Obama jailed a guy for making a movie…

        1. LarrytheG Avatar
          LarrytheG

          Obama himself did? geeze. is there smoke in this room now?

          1. WayneS Avatar

            How many Native Americans did Columbus personally murder?

          2. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            Why does that matter at all if he ordered it to be carried out.
            Ask that same question of Lenin or Pol Pot?

            I think there is some confusion here about what the deed is.

            We do not and should not memorialize anyone who is responsible
            for subjugating other people – look up the word.

          3. WayneS Avatar

            Yes, why does it matter if all Obama did was order it to be carried out?

            Is it past your nap time?

          4. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            Do you think a POTUS can himself order someone jailed? Obama, himself ordered
            that someone be jailed?

            You must be thinking of some other guy who thinks that way , eh?

            what in the heck are you reading? wanna share?

            Nap? snoring/snorting from this pap, yes…

          5. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            Quite a few… and turned many into slaves.

        2. Nancy Naive Avatar
          Nancy Naive

          I think he, like many others, put himself in “detention in a halfway house” when he pled guilty in federal court to one felony charge of using a "straw donor" to make the illegal campaign contribution.

          Don’t do the crime if ya can’t do the time.

        3. Eric the half a troll Avatar
          Eric the half a troll

          Doesn’t sound like it was the movie making per se that was the issue…

          Kind of like saying Trump is heading to jail for writing a check…

      3. Bedfordboy Avatar
        Bedfordboy

        Wouldn't be a lot of statues if your test of worthiness were to be adopted.

        Your blind spot, as with most leftists, is assuming your ostentatious moral rectitude outweighs the contrary views of others on any given issue. In the immortal words of Sgt. Hulka, "lighten up Francis."

        1. LarrytheG Avatar
          LarrytheG

          Simply and demonstrably not true. Thousands and thousands of statues will remain and be acceptable to virtually everyone.

          And you confuse some statues with memorials to certain heritage that involves memorializing those who subjugated others.

          Around the world, statues come down for the very same reasons.

          You do not impose your cultural heritage on others with memorials to those of your ancestors who subjugated their ancestors.

          Simple concept.

          1. Bedfordboy Avatar
            Bedfordboy

            Seems like the lefties are doing the imposing of culture here. Hence, my prior comment.

            Perhaps you should contact Korczak Ziolkowski and tell him to stop work on the Crazy Horse Memorial sculpture because it memorializes a culture that subjugated other cultures it defeated in battles long before Columbus set foot in the New World. Or does your sanctimony exempt Native Americans?

            You'd do well to stop hectoring people about their heritage or their culture. You're really out of your depth.

          2. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            no imposing of culture by lefties for sure. Just the usual suspects who want to impose their culture on others and are
            feeling it. We don’t honor those who subjugated others nor their descendants. Did Columbus even ever set foot in America?
            WHy would we honor him in the first place if he subjugated and enslaved others? How does that deserve honoring in a world where the descendants of those who ancestors he subjugated now live? Are folks who want to honor that insensitive or what?

          3. Bedfordboy Avatar
            Bedfordboy

            You're rambling Larry.

            In this country people can honor whom they choose. In the case of Columbus, most people have made a judgment that his achievements far outweigh his faults. You have a right to weigh them differently. You DO NOT have a right to tell others they cannot honor Columbus with a statue or otherwise. That, sir, is the leftie imposition of culture to which I refer, much like the attempted imposition of the DEI cult. (Thankfully, that foul tide has crested and is receding rapidly.)

            So I guess the Crazy Horse Memorial is safe from your condemnation?

          4. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            You sure can but it don’t mean you can impose it on others in a public space where not everyone has the same view and in fact, some may be descendants of those Columbus enslaved and subjugated. You can honor him all you want in a non-public place where people can voluntarily “honor”. Rambling about Crazy Horse? Geeze guy. Have you been to the Little BIghorn “Memorial” as I have? Do you know how they “honor” the participants? See, part of the problem is the history some want to believe that is not a complete history. Little Bighorn tries to rectify that. NO ONE should try to IMPOSE their heritage on others in public spaces. You can do it in your own space but not other shared spaces unless there general agreement,

            BUt who wants to “honor” people who enslaved and subjugated the ancestors of the descendants of people you work or play or shop with in the first place? How insensitive is that? Do you care if such “memorials” are offensive to others that you share public spaces with?

          5. Bedfordboy Avatar
            Bedfordboy

            So now the country is blessed with the LarrytheG "general agreement" test for what statues may appear in public spaces. Please enlighten us with the outcome of that test for Columbus statues. Feel free to quantify the "ayes" and the "nays". What does your test say about a George Floyd statue? A George Washington statue? A Nat Turner statue?

            Oh, and now that you've had a good night's sleep, look up Korczak Ziolkowski and you will discover he is the sculptor of the Crazy Horse Memorial being constructed on a mountain in SD. My query to you above, which had nothing to do with the "Little Big Horn Memorial" you reference in your rant, remains unanswered. Again, does that memorial pass the LarrytheG test even though the Sioux subjugated members of other tribes they defeated ? To help you out, here's a quote from one of your earlier comments in this very thread: "We do not and should not memorialize anyone who is responsible
            for subjugating other people – look up the word."

            The world awaits your wisdom.

          6. Bedfordboy Avatar
            Bedfordboy

            So now the country is blessed with the LarrytheG "general agreement" test for what statues may appear in public spaces. Please enlighten us with the outcome of that test for Columbus statues. Feel free to quantify the "ayes" and the "nays". What does your test say about a George Floyd statue? A George Washington statue? A Nat Turner statue?

            Oh, and now that you've had a good night's sleep, look up Korczak Ziolkowski and you will discover he is the sculptor of the Crazy Horse Memorial being constructed on a mountain in SD. My query to you above, which had nothing to do with the "Little Big Horn Memorial" you reference in your rant, remains unanswered. Again, does that memorial pass the LarrytheG test even though the Sioux subjugated members of other tribes they defeated ? To help you out, here's a quote from one of your earlier comments in this very thread: "We do not and should not memorialize anyone who is responsible
            for subjugating other people – look up the word."

            The world awaits your wisdom.

          7. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            Nope. I’m explaining how some feel and why they want some removed and others are fine. You can pretend to not understand as usual but the reality still exists.

            Did you research ALL of Crazy horse and Little BIg Horn? Here’s a start: https://www.nps.gov/libi/learn/historyculture/crazy-horse.htm
            https://crazyhorsememorial.org/story/the-history/about-crazy-horse-the-man
            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crazy_Horse

            Do you understand the difference between one leader/group subjugating an entire race of other people/culture AND then later THEIR descendants erecting memorials to their ancestors who had subjugated the ancestors of the descendants of who you now share public spaces with?

            Who would do that to your neighbors, co-workers, church-goers, etc?

          8. Bedfordboy Avatar
            Bedfordboy

            Let me try bold type to get your answer to my question:

            "Again, does that [Crazy Horse] memorial pass the LarrytheG test even though the Sioux subjugated members of other tribes they defeated ?"

            You dodge the question because the memorial fails your own test. Hypocrisy, thy name is leftism.

          9. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            In my opinion, they do get a pass as the tribal conflicts were not a matter of colonialism or one cultural subjugation of another. They were violent and vicious to each other more or less equally. This same sort or back and forth violence was also commonplace in Europe. We don’t typically consider the Yorkist, Lancastrians, Tudors, etc. to be English subjugators mainly because they did not aim to eradicate English culture with their violence which was every bit as vicious as any seen in the colonial eras. So there is a distinct difference. Hope this helps.

          10. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            It's not the LarryGtest at all. It's up to the people who live in a place as to whether they want a memorial in public spaces to some guy that enslaved/subjugated their ancestors.

            THAT's the "test".

            THAT's how some of them get taken down.

          11. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            No. You’re not dealing with LarrytheG, you’re dealing with the descendants of those whose ancestor’s entire culture and people was taken over and subjugated.

            It’s not the statue of any one person. It’s the statue of someone who enslaved and subjugated others as a people now placed where descendants of those enslaved now live.

            Did George FLoyd do that? Did Nat Turner? George Washington participated in it but knew it was wrong
            and tried to move away from it but do the descendants of George Washington want to put a memorial to him in a neighborhood where descendants of the slaves he owned, live now?

          12. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            Crazy Horse Memorial is designed to balance the memorials to the European colonization of America.

          13. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            It is and does and it changed from the original which only memorialized the soldiers.

            If one visits the memorial, they explain how that transition happened and it was controversial.

            One example, they had headstones of the soldiers place on the battlefield with their names, but none for the native americans.. now they do… have some….

          14. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            re: " You'd do well to stop hectoring people about their heritage or their culture."

            I'm not the one complaining about the statues coming down and whining about heritage.

            I'm just trying to explain that "heritage" does not need to be imposed on others who don't share it with you and if you insist, then statues might come down,

            Enjoy and revere your "heritage" but insisting it be in a public space shared with descendants of those whose ancestors were enslaved or subjugated by the guy you want to "memorialize" is about more than "hectoring" and yep, it also involves some folks being out of depth as well as grossly insensitive to others cultures.

        2. Eric the half a troll Avatar
          Eric the half a troll

          “Wouldn't be a lot of statues…”

          Ok….

  4. Nancy Naive Avatar
    Nancy Naive

    “Americans don’t honor Columbus for his mistreatment of native Americans, they honor him for his discovery of the Western Hemisphere.”

    Americans knew the western hemisphere was here all along. They didn’t know the eastern hemisphere was there, and filled with cruel people.

    You say potato…

    1. Wahoo'74 Avatar
      Wahoo’74

      Nancy Naive, self-loathing must be a terrible burden to live with. Have you considered moving to an Indian reservation so you can share your guilt trip stories daily?

      You might lead a happier life that way.

      1. Nancy Naive Avatar
        Nancy Naive

        Not self-loathing, just not deluding myself either.

    2. WayneS Avatar

      If we had the same attitudes towards Columbus back in 1978 that so many people have now, Little Feat's classic live album would probably have been named "Hating on Columbus"…

      1. Nancy Naive Avatar
        Nancy Naive

        Or, “Waiting on Newport”… or more to them specifically, “Waiting on La Salle”.

        1. WayneS Avatar

          Now that I've thought of it I'm going to listen to the album this weekend. Don't worry, though, I'll be hating on Columbus…

          1. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            Celebrate Lowell’s affair with Linda.

          2. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            Local WHFS dj Cerphe Colwell is the guy who leads the F-E-A-T chant in the beginning of the album… in case you were wondering…

          3. WayneS Avatar

            Yes, I did already know that. It's a great trivia question, though, because most people outside the DC region do not.

    3. pak152 Avatar

      "eastern hemisphere was there, and filled with cruel people."
      i guess forgetting the cruelty of pre-1492 Americans.
      https://was.media/en/2023-02-27-7-facts-to-justify-the-genocide-of-native-americans-cowboy-s-opinion/
      https://thelibrary.org/lochist/turnbo/V28/ST815.html

      1. Nancy Naive Avatar
        Nancy Naive

        Wow. Justifying genocide? The title is reason to “burn before reading”. Anything else there? Perhaps you have more contemporaneous examples, or are you of the opinion there haven’t been any?

        1. LarrytheG Avatar
          LarrytheG

          Wow Like the Native American invented all that stuff and no such thing as medieval torture and all that rot.

    1. Nancy Naive Avatar
      Nancy Naive

      Interesting. Who chained him and why? How did they feel about Columbus in Spain? Italy?

      Hmmm, when was the Spanish-American War again?

      1. Eric the half a troll Avatar
        Eric the half a troll

        Christopher Columbus was chained and arrested during his third voyage to the New World in 1500. This action was ordered by Francisco de Bobadilla, a Spanish nobleman appointed by King Ferdinand and Queen Isabella to investigate reports of mismanagement and abuse by Columbus and his brothers, who were governing Hispaniola at the time.

        Columbus was accused of tyranny and incompetence in his role as governor, which led to his arrest and return to Spain in chains. After arriving in Spain, Columbus was freed by the monarchs, who pardoned him but did not restore his governorship.

        Interesting how woke they were in 1892 to actually commemorate the event, eh…

        1. Nancy Naive Avatar
          Nancy Naive

          Catholic holiday.

        2. LarrytheG Avatar
          LarrytheG

          .. and we have memorials to him despite his crimes and even though he never set foot in this country to begin with? Gotta love the public schools original narratives that seem to be the basis for some ideas of our perceived "heritage". A large dollop of mythology combined with scant facts, and Voila – a man worthy of memorializing!

          1. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            Yeah, well we celebrate St. Patty’s Day as well. Nothing wrong with celebrating the heritage of different ethnic groups in the US (we are, after all, largely a nation of immigrants – Native Americans being the lone exception). But it is when it crosses to whitewashing and hero worship that is the problem.

          2. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            A difference between celebrating heritage versus memorializing a person as your “heritage” especially if that person was known to be an enslave and subjugator of others whose descendants today walk among us, are neighbors, co-workers, church-goers, parents of kids our kids are friends with, etc. tone-deaf “heritage”?

  5. Wahoo'74 Avatar
    Wahoo’74

    Great article, Jim.

    You also point out the hypocrisy and historical ignorance of the George Floyd "protestors" who unilaterally condemn Western European settlers while ignoring the genocide, continual warfare, and yes slavery of conquered tribes that was ongoing among the Indian tribes across America. Early American history is rife with Indian tribes slaughtering Western European settlers as well as their tribal enemies during their own wars of "colonization" expanding their territory.

    This is very analogous to the "pro-Palestinian" protestors who accuse Israel of genocide and colonization in their righteous battle against the terrorist group Hamas while conveniently ignoring the murders and rapes perpetrated on October 7. I call it blatant overt anti-Semitism and convenient radical leftist moral relativism.

    By the way, the Christopher Columbus statue off the Baltimore harbor up here in Maryland, erected by the local chapter of the Sons of Italy, was also torn up and thrown into the Baltimore Inner Harbor during our George Floyd "peaceful protests" (sic) during the 2020 summer of love. The feckless Progressive city "leadership" (sic) here also did nothing. There was no prosecutions of the criminals. It's OK for radicals to break the law and destroy a historical monument.

    We have to restore the rule of law in America. We also have to judge the early settlers and our Founding Fathers in the context of their times, not by the erroneous moral criteria of ill-informed leftist agitators.

    1. Eric the half a troll Avatar
      Eric the half a troll

      “We also have to judge the early settlers and our Founding Fathers in the context of their times…”

      Even the people of Columbus’ time recognized and condemned his abuses of the native people in the New World and given the state of human rights in the 1500s that’s really saying something.

    2. Eric the half a troll Avatar
      Eric the half a troll

      “We also have to judge the early settlers and our Founding Fathers in the context of their times…”

      Even the people of Columbus’ time recognized and condemned his abuses of the native people in the New World and given the state of human rights in the 1500s that’s really saying something.

  6. You are still stuck on this idea that we can’t learn about historical figures without erecting statues of them. We can! I somehow learned who Columbus was without seeing a single piece of the man in bronze.

    Also, it was more than the spreading of disease, which would have been simply a tragic situation. Murder, pillaging, and slavery of the natives he encountered; Columbus was a nasty piece of work, and trying to justify it by saying some of the tribes also weren’t perfect angels is just beyond sick. These were self-proclaimed men of God, and last I checked the Ten Commandments existed in the 1500s. Stop acting like “don’t murder” was some wild moral concept that wouldn’t come around for another few centuries.

    1. Nancy Naive Avatar
      Nancy Naive

      They like Blackbeard festivals too. Wonder if they would someday celebrate that other beard guy… what’s his name? Oh yeah, Bluebeard.

    2. walter smith Avatar
      walter smith

      How are you on baby killing?

  7. Eric the half a troll Avatar
    Eric the half a troll

    Queen Isabella regarding the issue of enslaving Native Americans in 1500:

    “Who gave him [Columbus] permission to make slaves of my subjects? … because of their need and because they are and must be free and not subject to servitude, and by virtue of the apostolic letters of our most Holy Father granted and given on this matter, that they be so free as are my subjects, and that any contrary things said or done are without any value.”

    1. Nancy Naive Avatar
      Nancy Naive

      … unless they refuse the eucharist, in which case they’re garroted.

  8. LarrytheG Avatar
    LarrytheG

    Do we memorialize those who colonized and enslaved others?

  9. James Wyatt Whitehead Avatar
    James Wyatt Whitehead

    The Columbian Exchange was the single most important world history event of the last 500 years. The Rise to Globalism could be the next. And this new event will come with plenty of collateral consequences, just as the Columbian Exchange. Both are a mixed bag, and the world will never be the same again. We see it in plain sight in everyday headlines.

    1. Nancy Naive Avatar
      Nancy Naive

      Columbian Exchange? Syphilis from Central America for Small Pox from Europe and Malaria from Africa?

        1. Nancy Naive Avatar
          Nancy Naive

          There almost always is? But what’s flip side to fascism?

        2. Nancy Naive Avatar
          Nancy Naive

          kinda oversimplified picture. The Columbian Exchange was more a Spain and Portugal exchange with Central and South America. Rome took its share and gave its graces.

          North American exchange came later with France and England, no Rome, largely financed by gold stolen from Spain, who in turn, had stolen it from Central and South America.

      1. James Wyatt Whitehead Avatar
        James Wyatt Whitehead

        It's happening all over again in real time. We are just along for the ride. Adjust your chinstraps.
        https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/1a6483341225ea722c3c155f12b02de2f8853b5d64abaa551d74a50efcb94075.jpg

  10. Wahoo'74 Avatar
    Wahoo’74

    Just to keep tweaking the Progressive Columbus haters a little bit, how would you classify the 1622 Powhatan tribe massacre of 1/4 of the Virginian English settlers? There had been peace for years after the 1610 war ended, trade among the settlers and natives, and no attacks on Indians.

    Would you classify this as "indigenous people righteous indignation?" Kind of like those who justify Hamas preemptively murdering and raping Israeli "colonialists" last October 7? Perhaps you want to erect a statue honor Powhatan Chief Opechancanough who led the massacre to replace Christopher Columbus?

    Inquiring minds want to know.

    1. Lefty665 Avatar
      Lefty665

      "indigenous people righteous indignation"

      Oh, I like that. It should be added to the description of Little Big Horn too. The natives are restless Kimosabe, Yes Tonto it's the occasionally indigenous peoples righteous indignation preparing for mostly peaceful demonstrations following George Floyd's death by Fentanyl overdose.

    2. Lefty665 Avatar
      Lefty665

      "indigenous people righteous indignation"

      Oh, I like that. It should be added to the description of Little Big Horn too. The natives are restless Kimosabe, Yes Tonto it's the occasionally indigenous peoples righteous indignation preparing for mostly peaceful demonstrations following George Floyd's death by Fentanyl overdose.

    3. LarrytheG Avatar
      LarrytheG

      re: "There had been peace for years after the 1610 war ended, trade among the settlers and natives, and no attacks on Indians."

      as they say, the "rest of the story":

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_massacre_of_1622

    4. Please argue how kidnapping and marrying a teen girl was a rock-solid foundation for longlasting peace.

      1. Nancy Naive Avatar
        Nancy Naive

        Psst, see also Kecoughtan massacre.

    5. Nancy Naive Avatar
      Nancy Naive

      Using current parlance, how about “retribution” for the 1610 extermination of the Kecoughtan (Kikotan alt.) peoples? And by extermination, it’s generally called “genocide”, including the “putting to sword” infants while in their murdered mother’s arms.

      There are them what say the 1610 massacre was “paving the road” to importing African slaves.

    6. Nancy Naive Avatar
      Nancy Naive

      oh, so you’re down with folks crossing the border to make a new life? Good. We can count on your vote against mass deportations of people from Central and South America.

  11. Nancy Naive Avatar
    Nancy Naive

    https://www.loc.gov/item/today-in-history/october-12/#:~:text=President%20Franklin%20Delano%20Roosevelt%20designated,celebrated%20as%20a%20federal%20holiday.

    So, a Democrat (Catholic) creation, celebrating Columbus is now a Republican darling. Nationalized by FDR. How about you guys show him more love and embrace Social Security too?

  12. LarrytheG Avatar
    LarrytheG

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/4b5fe9a5e0e1a207c43ebd292cd64eca90e97c8b6bf8d8e4d718fa70b0ee5d66.png

    "WOKE" …….. before "woke" was even a word!

    Opposition to "memorials" long before George Floyd and related!

    which led to changes in the way the US "memorialized" it's soldier "heroes" that fought Native Americans.

    "The American Indian Movement (AIM) is an American Indian grassroots movement which was founded in Minneapolis, Minnesota in July 1968 initially centered in urban areas in order to address systemic issues of poverty, discrimination, and police brutality against American Indians"

    " The American Indian Movement (AIM) protested the centennial commemoration of the site (Little Big Horn) , arguing that the site revered Custer and the Battle of Little Big Horn as a part of a heroic saga of American history and expansion into the American West while those who revered it had been truly "celebrating an act of genocide"

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Indian_Movement

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Bighorn_Battlefield_National_Monument

  13. VaPragamtist Avatar
    VaPragamtist

    Columbus Day being a celebration of Christopher Columbus is a common misconception based on, IMO, ignorance perpetuated by the masses.

    Columbus Day was created to celebrate the contributions of Italian immigrants–a group of people who, like other non-Anglo Europeans, faced ethnic and religious persecution for generations. . .including the largest mass lynching in US history. Columbus, the first Italian to make a major contribution to our modern US, is symbolic of those contributions.

    Despite this, Columbus Day is commonly associated with the symbol rather than the idea. It's akin to making Christmas solely about Santa, Easter about colored eggs, or the 4th of July about fireworks. Or, every third Monday in January, focusing on MLK's extramarital affairs rather than the ideals and progress he represents.

    From its inception, the idea of Columbus Day has been intentionally oversimplified by some to align with their own narrative.

    Instead of continuing to persecute Italian Americans by shunning their special day, why not expand the idea to celebrate the contributions of all immigrants? Change the symbol if you like, but don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

    1. LarrytheG Avatar
      LarrytheG

      I think that is a good point but it does illustrate the problem which is when you selected a "hero" to commemorate your culture – if it turns out he/she has a "dark" history not well appreciated – what do you do?

      It does depend where you want to put that memorial
      AND it also depends if YOUR cultural hero is also there.

      For instance, do you put a memorial to Crazy Horse at Little Big Horn in the same place there are memorials to the Soldiers he killed?

      When I got the opportunity to actually visit the Little Big Horn memorial – I was taken aback.

      The dust had cleared by the time I got there but it was clear
      that there had been a huge controversy over how the original
      memorial was established and primarily oriented to Custer
      and the soldiers who were "massacred".

      You go there now, and it's very different with respect to how the Lakotas are now also memorialized – and not everyone is "ok"
      with that.

      This is why I say, visiting the Little BIg Horn site in person or via web pages, one can gain a better appreciation of the who, what, when, etc that we do memoralize and WHERE we do it – or not.

      Do we put up a second memorial next to Columbus to memorialize the people/culture that he enslaved/subjugated?

      Is that what is meant by "context"?

      I am NOT an advocate of a particular approach but I very much
      DO believe that for each of us, if we are going to have an opinion about – KNOW all of the issue and how the "other side" feels.

  14. pak152 Avatar

    "Much of the modern rhetoric about Columbus mirrors attacks lobbed at him in the 19th century by anti-Catholic and anti-Italian groups like the Ku Klux Klan.

    In fact, Columbus Day became a nationally celebrated holiday following a mass lynching of Italians in New Orleans—the largest incident of lynching in American history.

    In 1892—the 400th anniversary of the Columbus voyage—President Benjamin Harrison called for a national celebration of Columbus and his achievements. Americans patriotically celebrated Columbus and erected numerous statues in his honor as the country embraced him."
    https://www.dailysignal.com/2017/10/06/the-truth-about-columbus/

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