Bacon's Rebellion

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Reparations for the Violators

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Dick Hall-Sizemore
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by Dick Hall-Sizemore

Governor Youngkin has proposed reparations for people who violated legal orders.

Included in his budget proposal is a directive to reimburse all fines, fees, and interest imposed on individuals “due to violations of COVID-19 related practices, guidelines, rules or operating procedures”  and to waive all such fines imposed. The budget language earmarks a million dollars from the general fund to reimburse any such fines and fees that were paid into the general fund and directs that any fines and fees paid into nongeneral fund accounts be reimbursed from those accounts. (See language beginning on line 51 of page 579 of the .pdf version of the budget bill.)

I get it. Youngkin ran on a platform opposed to the COVID-19 restrictions imposed by Governor Northam, promising to remove them. In announcing his intention to propose reimbursement of any fines collected, he called them “unjust” and many in his base consider the COVID restrictions imposed by Northam unconstitutional.

Nevertheless, the Virginia Supreme Court refused to block any of the restrictions contained in the Northam executive orders. Therefore, the restrictions and orders were legal. That makes the individuals and businesses involved lawbreakers and the fines and fees levied were their penalty.

If we are going to get into the business of reparations for lawbreakers, why stop with COVID violators? In 2020, the General Assembly decriminalized possession of marijuana and made possession a civil offense, punishable by a fine of up to $25. The next year the legislature repealed altogether the prohibition on possession of marijuana. It follows that, if the legislature were to agree now with the governor that folks who violated legal restrictions that are no longer considered warranted should have their fines waived or reimbursed, folks who were convicted in the past of a law no longer considered warranted (possession of marijuana) should have their fines and court costs reimbursed or waived if still outstanding.

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44 responses to “Reparations for the Violators”

  1. WayneS Avatar
    WayneS

    You are correct. Any ongoing fines or punishments should be immediately rescinded, but unless they want to start reimbursing fines and paying reparations to people who were previously convicted of marijuana possession under the old laws, they should probably not open this particular box.

  2. WayneS Avatar
    WayneS

    You are correct. Any ongoing fines or punishments should be immediately rescinded, but unless they want to start reimbursing fines and paying reparations to people who were previously convicted of marijuana possession under the old laws, they should probably not open this particular box.

  3. LarrytheG Avatar
    LarrytheG

    crickets from the law & order crowd?

  4. DJRippert Avatar
    DJRippert

    I agree that marijuana fines should be refunded and the records of people who were convicted for violations that are now legal should be expunged.

    One of the reasons put forth for favoring Black people’s applications for dispensary licenses is that that favoritism is a form of reparation for communities most adversely affected by the “war on drugs”.

    1. LarrytheG Avatar
      LarrytheG

      geeze…. so you’re in favor of “affirmative action” and discrimination?

      heavens to Betsy!

      1. DJRippert Avatar
        DJRippert

        I favor the expungement since it is statistically clear that Blacks were disproportionately charged with simple possession.

        I don’t favor the affirmative action on the licenses. My guess is that those who obtain the licenses will flip them to bigger companies within a few years. Just like the original cellular licenses that made Mark Warner so rich.

    2. WayneS Avatar
      WayneS

      Not I. If you broke the marijuana laws while marijuana was against the law, then you should be ready to accept any related monetary fines and not expect special consideration now.

      I have no issue with expunging non-violent marijuana offenses from people’s records, but fines need to just be written off by the former offenders.

      I was joking about speeding fines in my comment, above.

      1. Nancy Naive Avatar
        Nancy Naive

        Meh. Marijuana expungement is the government admitting it effed-up.

        Now, financial reparation? That’s icing on the cake. That’s like you said, giving people a pass for lawbreaking done consciously.

        Only if the law was so draconian that people could not help but break it should they be made whole.

        1. WayneS Avatar
          WayneS

          Agreeed.

        2. DJRippert Avatar
          DJRippert

          The problem was the disproportionate enforcement. Blacks and Whites use marijuana at roughly the same rates. However, Blacks were charged with simple possession far more often than Whites.

          1. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            And, any that weren’t RoR’ed were undoubted ruined financially, either by usurious bail-bondsman or sitting months awaiting trial.

      2. Matt Adams Avatar
        Matt Adams

        The difference between this and weed is that weed punishment was based under law. COVID punishment was based on E.O. and the people had no representation in the matter.

        The people whom are impacted were the small businesses whose models couldn’t sustain the arbitrary and capricious rules emplaced by Gov. Northam.

        It was just a tax for being a small business and had nothing to do with stemming the spread of COVID.

        We all know once the Government imposes a tax they aren’t likely to give up that source of revenue ever again.

        1. WayneS Avatar
          WayneS

          You make a good point.

    3. Nancy Naive Avatar
      Nancy Naive

      Happy Mutual Fund Hate Week, DJ!

      This is the week that people discover that their investments are down 15% YTD, and their actively managed mutual funds just dumped a large taxable capital gains distribution on them.

      1. DJRippert Avatar
        DJRippert

        No kidding. What a deal!

  5. James McCarthy Avatar
    James McCarthy

    VA has forgiven the 4 GOP Congressmen for voting to reject electoral results from two states as part of a coup by re-electing them. The owner of the restaurant Gourmeltz defied Covid regulations and has been praised for his efforts. Youngthing’s political urgings need to be reined in. It’s dangerous territory.

    1. LarrytheG Avatar
      LarrytheG

      It’s dangerous AND “productive” these days. Lotta MAGA types out there and they do vote and Youngkin wants those votes. I fully expect him to join DeSantis on the anti-Vax stuff.

    2. Randy Huffman Avatar
      Randy Huffman

      I’m not supportive of these Republicans voting to not support the 2020 electoral results, but is needs to be pointed out Democrats have denied the legitimacy of elections in the last. The upcoming Democratic Minority leader, Hakeem Jefferies, is an election denier too.

      https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2022/11/30/democrat-election-denier-hakeem-jeffries-elected-house-minority-leader/

  6. William O'Keefe Avatar
    William O’Keefe

    Acbar is 100% right. This would be a horrible precedent. The past should be history. Whatever took place good or bad can’t be rewritten. Of Course, this is just another part of Youngkin’s setting the stage to run for president.

    1. DJRippert Avatar
      DJRippert

      So you opposed amnesty for Vietnam draft dodgers? Once they came back from Canada they should have been put in jail?

      1. William O'Keefe Avatar
        William O’Keefe

        Amnesty is not the same as reparations. And if the law wasn’t changed then they should have stood trial under the then existing law.

  7. Matt Adams Avatar
    Matt Adams

    “Nevertheless, the Virginia Supreme Court refused to block any of the restrictions contained in the Northam executive orders. Therefore, the restrictions and orders were legal. That makes the individuals and businesses involved lawbreakers and the fines and fees levied were their penalty.”

    This isn’t logic, just because something didn’t occur doesn’t mean it was correct. Talk about a standard DHS appeal from ignorance.

  8. WayneS Avatar
    WayneS

    You are correct. Any ongoing fines or punishments should be immediately rescinded, but unless they want to start reimbursing fines and paying reparations to people who were previously convicted of marijuana possession under the old laws, they should probably not open this particular box.

    Plus, I will want all the speeding fines I paid under the old 55 mph speed limit law refunded to me. With that much money I might even be able to add an item to my motorcycle collection – possibly even pay off my mortgage. I’d probably need to prepare a spreadsheet to come up with a final figure, but trust me when I say it would be a sizeable amount…

    1. how_it_works Avatar
      how_it_works

      Did you ever consider a radar detector? I know they’re illegal in Virginia, but laws like that are meant to be broken.

      1. WayneS Avatar
        WayneS

        I used one for a while. Got pulled over by a cop with a radar detector-detector.

        1. how_it_works Avatar
          how_it_works

          I had a co-worker about 20 years ago that used one for years and somehow managed to avoid getting caught with it.

          Possession of a radar detector in Virginia is a no-points fine that doesn’t affect your insurance rates, so perhaps you are better off having one even if you do get caught with it, assuming that it saved you from at least one speeding ticket prior to that.

  9. Acbar Avatar
    Acbar

    Public health is a responsibility of the State, well recognized as such going back to medieval times. How the State protects public health may be contentious at times — but these covid decisions were duly made and reasonably enforced.

    The broader question is, should any future government pay reparations for past governmental policies that no longer have the same degree of political support. This easily slides over into rewarding a political faction that achieves control over the government with monetary and other favors — something we have generally avoided in this country. Government should be forward-looking and for the general good, not an instrument of revenge, a tool for a faction’s looting the general coffers.

    What Youngkin proposes is a terrible precedent toward govermment by and for a faction.

    1. James Wyatt Whitehead Avatar
      James Wyatt Whitehead

      Older precedent here. See Southern Claims Commission that handled over 22,000 war damage petitions in the 1870s. About 7,000 claims were paid out. Politics is war by other means.
      https://www.nps.gov/mana/learn/kidsyouth/james-gentleman-jim-robinson.htm

    2. LarrytheG Avatar
      LarrytheG

      as bad as that is, and it is, that’s just the half of it. The same ignorati also target people like the head of VDH and Fauci , Northam and other governors for political and personal attacks, even physical threats.

      All in the name of “freedom and liberty”.

      And now, like with Trump and his “pardons’, Youngkin doing essentially the same.

      1. Nancy Naive Avatar
        Nancy Naive

        Not quite the same as a Trump pardon… those were used to suppress testimony.

        1. LarrytheG Avatar
          LarrytheG

          Not all but the concept has spread to MAGA….

          We are seeing more and more how Conservatives REALLY will govern if they have that power.

          1. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            It’s a little bit frightening. Taxes (and prison) are for the little people.

    3. Nancy Naive Avatar
      Nancy Naive

      Draft dodger amnesty? Well, at least they were RIGHT!

    4. Randy Huffman Avatar
      Randy Huffman

      Im confused. Youngkin proposed a bill, that is not Government by and for a faction. You want to see Government by and for a faction, pay attention to say what’s going on at the border and immigration issues.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        Trump had a full go at it with both houses of Congress, no?

        So, here’s the question on this issue.

        What would you do with folks seeking asylum?

        Tell them to submit paperwork and wait and if they cross the border and they’re not from Mexico, but say Cuba, do what?

        What is the GOP idea?

        1. Randy Huffman Avatar
          Randy Huffman

          Everyone knows the majority seeking asylum have no case, everyone knows Trump’s border policy was starting to work, but tens of thousands more are now coming in daily. Everyone knows we have Trillions of debt and Trillions of future deficits, so cant pay for this influx, everyone knows these migrants are coming because the Biden Administration is doing little to stop them. We read the migrants are paying thousands to be escorted in by cartels, why would they do that?

          The World has roughly 8 Billion people. How many would you let in annually? 10,000, 100,000, 1,000,000, 10,000,000, 100,000,000? This isn’t Republican talking points, its not a Republican issue, its a National Security issue. You tell me, set a number, what do you do when more show up at the border, just let them in? It is a catastrophe caused 100% by the Biden Administration.

          1. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            “everyone knows” ?

            eh?

            How do you decide they have “no case”?

            If Trump was doing it right, why didn’t the GOP Congress make it law?

            The question remains – if someone crosses the border and claims asylum, what do you do if they are not from Mexico?

            Ya’ll have no answers, just evading the issue like the GOP did under Trump.

            The GOP itself has no answers, has not presented their “solution”.

            All we have is the far right fools offering the usual stuff that does not work, like just build a wall.

          2. Randy Huffman Avatar
            Randy Huffman

            You ask questions as if you know what’s going on, in the mean time our borders are a disaster as you sit and ponder questions and pretend its Republicans faults.

            Someone knocks on your door and demands to come in, do you say sure, and point them to the fridge? Why not leave your door open and say fill out a form and stick around for a while until a judge rules that they must leave? This wouldn’t be an issue if it was a limited amount, but we are being overrun.

            Just say no, just like every other country. Why does it have to be complicated?

          3. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            talking about asylum not someone on your personal door.

            How do you stop them?

            If you catch them where do you send them back to?

            If the country they came from won’t take them then what do you do?

            Ya’ll have no answers other than simplistic ones that are not reality.

            IF someone comes here from Venezuela or Cuba across the Mexico border, what do you do if Cuba won’t receive them back?

          4. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            talking about asylum not someone on your personal door.

            How do you stop them?

            If you catch them where do you send them back to?

            If the country they came from won’t take them then what do you do?

            Ya’ll have no answers other than simplistic ones that are not reality.

            IF someone comes here from Venezuela or Cuba across the Mexico border, what do you do if Cuba won’t receive them back?

          5. Randy Huffman Avatar
            Randy Huffman

            If you lived near the border, it IS your door. Are you not following what’s going on? Guess I shouldn’t be surprised because the disaster is being bottled up and not reported by many news outlets.

            People need to be educated on this. If someone comes from Cuba for example into Mexico, its Mexico’s problem, not ours, they let them in. It is as simple as saying no, that is the reality. Do that, Mexico will stop them, which is exactly what the Trump administration was working to.

            Heartless? It might sound like it until you realize what a disaster this is.

    5. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
      Dick Hall-Sizemore

      I wish I were as articulate as Acbar.

  10. Nancy Naive Avatar
    Nancy Naive

    Reparations for public health scofflaws? Okay, now about slavery…

  11. Nancy Naive Avatar
    Nancy Naive

    Okay! But it should be taxable, like a loan forgiven.

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