Remembering the Forgotten Robert E. Lee

The General’s Redoubt, a group of alumni organized to keep the “Lee” in Washington & Lee University, have produced two short videos exploring Lee’s legacy in American history. The first touches upon his personal humility and gift for leadership, his strong reservations about slavery, and his revival of a university devastated by war.

Amazing fact: Lee freed the slaves of his deceased father-in-law while the war was raging. He converted two slaves into salaried employees at his headquarters tent. Ironically, when General U.S. Grant’s wife visited him in the field, she brought a domestic slave with her. Her family’s slaves were not freed until January 1865, two years after the Lee family slaves won their freedom.

The second video details how Lee played a critical role to reunite the war-torn country, supported reconstruction and the enfranchisement of blacks, and transformed Washington College (as it was called then) to prepare a new generation of Southerners for the emerging industrial economy that was supplanting the old plantation economy.

As Virginians, we can adopt the cartoon version of history that divides everyone into camps of good or evil, or we can embrace history as it really was: complex, nuanced, and replete with cross-cutting currents.

We can measure past figures by contemporary standards, find them lacking, and purge them from our memory. (By that logic, we would have to “cancel” Martin Luther King for his misogyny.) Or we can view figures by a different standard: In the long, 400-year march from the brutal hierarchical world of kings, peasants, serfs and slaves that existed in 1619 toward today’s world, which embraces the ideal (not always honored) of freedom for all, who (to borrow a sports metaphor) moved the ball down the field toward greater freedom?

Despite his role as a Confederate general, Lee moved the ball down the field. He was a great American. We should honor his memory.


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156 responses to “Remembering the Forgotten Robert E. Lee”

  1. In related news, legislation has been introduced to the General Assembly to remove the statue of Harry Byrd from the Capitol grounds. The so-called Byrd machine he created did do some things well (it built a great system of rural roads and it was less overtly corrupt than most political machines), but if we apply the did-he-move-the-ball-down-the-field-toward-greater-liberty, I’d have to say he did not. Byrd is not someone we should memorialize.

    1. djrippert Avatar

      ” … (it built a great system of rural roads and it was less overtly corrupt than most political machines) …”

      It’s often been said that the most zealous Catholics are those who converted to the faith. I guess that’s true of Plantation Elites as well.

      Harry Byrd was an out-and-out racist of the highest order, especially for his time. He was also very corrupt. You laud him for building a great system of rural roads. Why do you think he did that? Payoff for the rural supporters and corrupt Constitutional officers who kept the Byrd Machine alive and well. Less overtly corrupt than other machines? Wow, that’s a selling point. Kind of like saying Mussolini was less of an idiot than Hitler. And a terrible racist to boot? Yes, let’s build a statue!

      A great system of rural roads? What a brilliant investment in a state where the rural population has been decreasing for 100 years. As for his financially illiterate “pay go” system? That makes him stupid, not wise. Reasonably managed debt in a growing economy is an accelerant of the standard of living. Do you think Virginia today should pay off all its debts and never borrow again? you know, return to the Byrd school of public finance?

      Looks like the legislature might do the right thing …

      https://www.pilotonline.com/government/virginia/vp-nw-harry-byrd-statue-removal-20210122-jyerhusvnndcnn62thvstjnv6q-story.html

      Those members of the plantation elite who read this blog – do me a favor – tell the “powers that be” not to contract with NAH LLC or any other “special purpose” company. I’ll do it for free. Dumping that statue in the deepest part of the Chesapeake Bay would be my pleasure.

      Virginia has had lots of good governors. Honoring one relatively modern day, corrupt, racist, backward politician with statues and highway names is disgraceful.

      Tear down that statue!

    2. Steve Haner Avatar
      Steve Haner

      OMG, Bacon. The lawsuit against Lee because he REFUSED to honor the will that freed the slaves is notorious! Went all the way to either the State or US Supreme Court before he lost. He fought like HELL not to free those slaves and lose all that monetary value. I don’t even think Freeman “whitewashed” the truth of that quite as blatantly. Universe…infinite…human capacity for self delusion….

      On checking, it was Lee who initiated the action seeking to void the will. I’m sure the slaves had no standing. The federal case Lee vs. US involved Arlington House after the war. The positive note for Confederate apologists is that in the middle of the war, a Virginia court insisted on honored a grant of manumission.

      “State courts in both 1858 and 1862 denied Lee’s petition to indefinitely postpone the emancipation of his wife’s enslaved people and forced him to comply with the conditions of the will. Finally, on December 29, 1862, Lee officially freed the enslaved workers and their families on the estate, coincidentally three days before the Emancipation Proclamation went into effect.”

      Look, step one in all this discussion is face the truth.

      1. Matt Adams Avatar
        Matt Adams

        People like to romanticize Lee of course, they do the same with all the individuals (the Victors write history). Heck, even Lincoln’s own words located in the monument basement are contrary to what people “believe”.

        Most people don’t even realize that the Emancipation Proclamation only applied to Southern States and left the north and the “neutral” states to their own devices.

        People are complex and the notion that we can boil life down into black and white and erase those who don’t align to todays standards is awful. It’s detrimental to history and will doom us to repeat it.

      2. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
        James Wyatt Whitehead V

        Lee’s father in law, George Washington Parke Custis, left the general a complicated will. He had 5 years to settle all estate debts and leave property for the grandsons, cash for the granddaughters. The manumission laws in Virginia were strict and required top shelf legal counsel. 5 years was not enough time even without the war. GWP Custis had left everything in disorder and debt. Between 1857 and 1869 Lee was able to satisfy the terms of the Custis will. The property was distributed, the slaves freed, and the estate bank account had over $80,000 in it. I found the document that Lee wrote to manumit the slaves. I believe Lee did most of this list from memory.
        http://files.usgwarchives.net/va/spotsylvania/wills/c2320001.txt

        1. LarrytheG Avatar

          wonder how much that 80K is in today’s dollars…

          1. Steve Haner Avatar
            Steve Haner

            His widow got $150,000 US in compensation for the loss of the Arlington house and lands, but not till well after the war and Lee’s death.

        2. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
          James Wyatt Whitehead V

          Mary Custis Lee (4th cousin 5 times removed, yeah I know it is pretty thin) was given life rights to live at Arlington by the terms of the Custis will. Even if Uncle Sam gave it back to her she would never have returned to Arlington. Mary did return a few months prior to her death but never left the carriage and went home. The mansion was a wreck and there were now 17,000 graves in the front yard. Mary was an unreconstructed rebel and probably contributed to Lee’s heart condition. Upon Mary’s death Arlington was to descend to the oldest son George Washington Custis Lee. Between 1877 and 1883 Custis was able to win his Supreme Court case and a cash settlement. Custis succeeded his father as president of Washington College.

  2. “Byrd is not someone we should memorialize.”

    I disagree. Both the good and the bad things done by the “Byrd Machine” are part of Virginia’s history. We should certainly contextualize any memorial to Gov. Byrd, but I do not think we should give one more inch of ground to the “cancel culture” than they have already taken. In fact, I think we should be working to “un-cancel” many of those who have already been sentenced to historical death.

    1. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
      James Wyatt Whitehead V

      Virginia’s long tradition of “pay as you go” and fiscal conservatism comes from Byrd. One overlooked aspect of Byrd’s legacy was the 1927 school infrastructure act. Statewide modern schools for both races were constructed. As a senator in the New Deal he rejected it, except funding for the CCC, Works Progress, Skyline Drive, and military contracts in Newport News. FDR had to cut a special deal for Virginia thanks to Byrd. Our state was not required to put up matching funds. As the chairman of the Senate Finance Committee, Byrd held the national checkbook in his hands. Not even Lyndon Johnson could wrangle Byrd, who put the brakes on the Great Society spending LBJ really wanted. People who met Byrd were always struck by his presence. To be expected since he is a descendant of William Byrd of Westover.

      1. djrippert Avatar

        Mr. Whitehead … please ….

        “Py as you go” is a form of financial stupidity not conservatism. Financing growth with manageable debt is an intelligent and time honored way to accelerate economic success. If Ralph Northam declared today that he wanted Virginia to pay off all its debts and never borrow again he’d be laughed out of the room. Maybe if Byrd would have taken on some debt for transportation we’d be in less of a fiasco than we find ourselves today.

        I also notice that none of the Byrd supporters mention a little thing called “Massive Resistance” in their commentary. How odd. The Byrd Machine would rather shut down all those new schools it built rather than integrate them (which also would be compliant with the US Supreme Court decision in multiple cases). It that regard Byrd and his machine were not only out-and-out racists they were seditious traitors who directly opposed the lawful findings of the US Supreme Court operating under its power within the US Constitution.

        I really wish Eisenhower would have sent the 101st Airborne to Richmond to force integration of the schools.

        1. LarrytheG Avatar

          In fairness, not going into debt has for decades, been a time-honored principle of Conservatives not just Byrd.

          And, we talk about places like Illinois and New Jersey that are less fiscally responsible than Virginia..

          Over time, ‘pay as you go’ has become more of an idea and less of a reality, to a certain extent. I know our local county is in debt but following “guidelines” with respect to how much and are aggressive about refinancing it when opportunity presents. Most all of our schools and other buildings are borrowed money being payed back. I bet where James is, it’s the same.

          Roads I don’t know about, Maybe Dick does… but with the exception of the 3rd party toll roads.. I’m not sure.. I don’t think we do.

          1. djrippert Avatar

            Debt is not a dirty four letter word unless you are financially illiterate.

        2. Steve Haner Avatar
          Steve Haner

          My grandfather and great uncle knew Senior, and were small cogs in “the machine.” I knew Harry Junior a bit, enough to speak and do my reporter thing. Let the dead bury the dead.

          1. djrippert Avatar

            Bury the dead – fine. Erect statues to the dead in 1976? Not so fine. How about a statue honoring Linwood Holton or Jerry Baliles.

            I know Holton is still alive (at age 97) but who says you can’t erect a statue to a living person.

          2. Steve Haner Avatar
            Steve Haner

            I’ll say it again: Byrd on one side of the courtyard, Wilder on the other, and a teaching moment par excellence.

        3. Nancy_Naive Avatar
          Nancy_Naive

          “‘Py (sic) as you go’ is a form of financial stupidity not conservatism.”

          “Pay as you go” allowed Virginia to skate through the Great Depression virtually unscathed. Of course, that’s because Virginia was living in a depression before it happened.

          1. djrippert Avatar

            And has remained in a depression but for the federal government ever since.

          2. djrippert Avatar

            Skate through the Great Depression? Did you never watch The Waltons? Goodnight, nancy.

        4. idiocracy Avatar

          Debt is only stupid when it is used to finance a depreciating asset. And even then, it can be smart if that depreciating asset generates enough revenue to offset the depreciation.

        5. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
          James Wyatt Whitehead V

          Byrd grew up with a historic lineage but not the money. Dirt poor. Bought a broken down newspaper The Winchester Star and learned from fiscal responsibility you can turn a buck or two. The Stanley Plan or massive resistance was terrible and cannot be defended.

        6. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
          James Wyatt Whitehead V

          I think having the Byrd Statue and the Civil Rights Monument on the grounds of Capitol Square form an important juxtaposition that educates and enlightens. I suppose old Harry is going to have a hard time finding a home now. Maybe Stonewall Jackson cemetery in Winchester or perhaps his old home Rosemount Manor in Berryville.
          https://l450v.alamy.com/450v/m1axxh/harry-hood-byrd-monument-on-the-grounds-of-the-state-capitol-richmond-m1axxh.jpg

          https://live.staticflickr.com/352/18646562521_194e384490_b.jpg

          1. djrippert Avatar

            The bottom of the Chesapeake Bay just south of the Maryland line would make a fine home for the statue of Byrd.

          2. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
            James Wyatt Whitehead V

            I hear you Mr. DJ. It is hard to defend what Carter Glass, Thomas Staples Martin, and Byrd did to Virginia in the era of Jim Crow. Even if you sink his statue Byrd is everywhere. It will be a long time before his footprint on Virginia fades.

    2. Steve Haner Avatar
      Steve Haner

      I have no problem with memorializing either Lee or Byrd, who was both a significant governor and then a major power in the U.S. Senate. But be honest about their major failings.

    3. David Bither Avatar
      David Bither

      Amongst the cohort of infantry officers I served with, Lee joined the paragon of U.S. Army generals to include Grant and Patton that we sought to emulate. The vast library of military history at Fort Leavenworth documented the selfless bravery and stout leadership provided by Lee during the Mexican-American War. Countless dispatches from the campaign attest to his unusual and repeated acts of courage and valor on the battlefield.

      His strength of character and service to country was demonstrated consistently from his days as a cadet to his appointment as superintendent of West Point. From successful engineering projects on the Mississippi to answering the President’s call to put down the insurrection at Harpers Ferry his “gallantry and courage” were ever-present.

      Lee’s service and conduct during the Civil War was consistent with his past achievements. His tactics were audacious, his leadership almost unique in his ability to lead men under fire, and his care for the lives of his men and those of captured and wounded Union soldiers was legendary.

      I write this not as a history lesson for I’m assuming readers knowledgeable in Virginia’s great history know of the General’s exploits. This is rather to explain why young combat officers chose Lee and others like Lee to model their service even knowing that we would undoubtedly fall short of a great man’s accomplishments.

      What I feel is more evidence of cultural decay (and the cancel cultists) is that people who have never served anything but their own interest, have shown little or no self-sacrifice, have done no great deeds, have accomplished little, and have put themselves ahead of country and family sit in judgment of a man who lived a great, but (like us all) imperfect human life.

      And unlike Jesus staying the hand of those sinners that would stone, these mobs are eager to stone a man and pillory a legacy of character and duty that eclipses their own pettiness.

  3. In related news, legislation has been introduced to the General Assembly to remove the statue of Harry Byrd from the Capitol grounds. The so-called Byrd machine he created did do some things well (it built a great system of rural roads and it was less overtly corrupt than most political machines), but if we apply the did-he-move-the-ball-down-the-field-toward-greater-liberty, I’d have to say he did not. Byrd is not someone we should memorialize.

    1. Steve Haner Avatar
      Steve Haner

      OMG, Bacon. The lawsuit against Lee because he REFUSED to honor the will that freed the slaves is notorious! Went all the way to either the State or US Supreme Court before he lost. He fought like HELL not to free those slaves and lose all that monetary value. I don’t even think Freeman “whitewashed” the truth of that quite as blatantly. Universe…infinite…human capacity for self delusion….

      On checking, it was Lee who initiated the action seeking to void the will. I’m sure the slaves had no standing. The federal case Lee vs. US involved Arlington House after the war. The positive note for Confederate apologists is that in the middle of the war, a Virginia court insisted on honored a grant of manumission.

      “State courts in both 1858 and 1862 denied Lee’s petition to indefinitely postpone the emancipation of his wife’s enslaved people and forced him to comply with the conditions of the will. Finally, on December 29, 1862, Lee officially freed the enslaved workers and their families on the estate, coincidentally three days before the Emancipation Proclamation went into effect.”

      Look, step one in all this discussion is face the truth.

      1. Matt Adams Avatar
        Matt Adams

        People like to romanticize Lee of course, they do the same with all the individuals (the Victors write history). Heck, even Lincoln’s own words located in the monument basement are contrary to what people “believe”.

        Most people don’t even realize that the Emancipation Proclamation only applied to Southern States and left the north and the “neutral” states to their own devices.

        People are complex and the notion that we can boil life down into black and white and erase those who don’t align to todays standards is awful. It’s detrimental to history and will doom us to repeat it.

      2. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
        James Wyatt Whitehead V

        Lee’s father in law, George Washington Parke Custis, left the general a complicated will. He had 5 years to settle all estate debts and leave property for the grandsons, cash for the granddaughters. The manumission laws in Virginia were strict and required top shelf legal counsel. 5 years was not enough time even without the war. GWP Custis had left everything in disorder and debt. Between 1857 and 1869 Lee was able to satisfy the terms of the Custis will. The property was distributed, the slaves freed, and the estate bank account had over $80,000 in it. I found the document that Lee wrote to manumit the slaves. I believe Lee did most of this list from memory.
        http://files.usgwarchives.net/va/spotsylvania/wills/c2320001.txt

        1. LarrytheG Avatar

          wonder how much that 80K is in today’s dollars…

          1. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
            James Wyatt Whitehead V

            About 2.5 million

          2. Steve Haner Avatar
            Steve Haner

            His widow got $150,000 US in compensation for the loss of the Arlington house and lands, but not till well after the war and Lee’s death.

        2. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
          James Wyatt Whitehead V

          Mary Custis Lee (4th cousin 5 times removed, yeah I know it is pretty thin) was given life rights to live at Arlington by the terms of the Custis will. Even if Uncle Sam gave it back to her she would never have returned to Arlington. Mary did return a few months prior to her death but never left the carriage and went home. The mansion was a wreck and there were now 17,000 graves in the front yard. Mary was an unreconstructed rebel and probably contributed to Lee’s heart condition. Upon Mary’s death Arlington was to descend to the oldest son George Washington Custis Lee. Between 1877 and 1883 Custis was able to win his Supreme Court case and a cash settlement. Custis succeeded his father as president of Washington College.

    2. djrippert Avatar

      ” … (it built a great system of rural roads and it was less overtly corrupt than most political machines) …”

      It’s often been said that the most zealous Catholics are those who converted to the faith. I guess that’s true of Plantation Elites as well.

      Harry Byrd was an out-and-out racist of the highest order, especially for his time. He was also very corrupt. You laud him for building a great system of rural roads. Why do you think he did that? Payoff for the rural supporters and corrupt Constitutional officers who kept the Byrd Machine alive and well. Less overtly corrupt than other machines? Wow, that’s a selling point. Kind of like saying Mussolini was less of an idiot than Hitler. And a terrible racist to boot? Yes, let’s build a statue!

      A great system of rural roads? What a brilliant investment in a state where the rural population has been decreasing for 100 years. As for his financially illiterate “pay go” system? That makes him stupid, not wise. Reasonably managed debt in a growing economy is an accelerant of the standard of living. Do you think Virginia today should pay off all its debts and never borrow again? you know, return to the Byrd school of public finance?

      Looks like the legislature might do the right thing …

      https://www.pilotonline.com/government/virginia/vp-nw-harry-byrd-statue-removal-20210122-jyerhusvnndcnn62thvstjnv6q-story.html

      Those members of the plantation elite who read this blog – do me a favor – tell the “powers that be” not to contract with NAH LLC or any other “special purpose” company. I’ll do it for free. Dumping that statue in the deepest part of the Chesapeake Bay would be my pleasure.

      Virginia has had lots of good governors. Honoring one relatively modern day, corrupt, racist, backward politician with statues and highway names is disgraceful.

      Tear down that statue!

  4. “Byrd is not someone we should memorialize.”

    I disagree. Both the good and the bad things done by the “Byrd Machine” are part of Virginia’s history. We should certainly contextualize any memorial to Gov. Byrd, but I do not think we should give one more inch of ground to the “cancel culture” than they have already taken. In fact, I think we should be working to “un-cancel” many of those who have already been sentenced to historical death.

    1. Steve Haner Avatar
      Steve Haner

      I have no problem with memorializing either Lee or Byrd, who was both a significant governor and then a major power in the U.S. Senate. But be honest about their major failings.

    2. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
      James Wyatt Whitehead V

      Virginia’s long tradition of “pay as you go” and fiscal conservatism comes from Byrd. One overlooked aspect of Byrd’s legacy was the 1927 school infrastructure act. Statewide modern schools for both races were constructed. As a senator in the New Deal he rejected it, except funding for the CCC, Works Progress, Skyline Drive, and military contracts in Newport News. FDR had to cut a special deal for Virginia thanks to Byrd. Our state was not required to put up matching funds. As the chairman of the Senate Finance Committee, Byrd held the national checkbook in his hands. Not even Lyndon Johnson could wrangle Byrd, who put the brakes on the Great Society spending LBJ really wanted. People who met Byrd were always struck by his presence. To be expected since he is a descendant of William Byrd of Westover.

      1. djrippert Avatar

        Mr. Whitehead … please ….

        “Py as you go” is a form of financial stupidity not conservatism. Financing growth with manageable debt is an intelligent and time honored way to accelerate economic success. If Ralph Northam declared today that he wanted Virginia to pay off all its debts and never borrow again he’d be laughed out of the room. Maybe if Byrd would have taken on some debt for transportation we’d be in less of a fiasco than we find ourselves today.

        I also notice that none of the Byrd supporters mention a little thing called “Massive Resistance” in their commentary. How odd. The Byrd Machine would rather shut down all those new schools it built rather than integrate them (which also would be compliant with the US Supreme Court decision in multiple cases). It that regard Byrd and his machine were not only out-and-out racists they were seditious traitors who directly opposed the lawful findings of the US Supreme Court operating under its power within the US Constitution.

        I really wish Eisenhower would have sent the 101st Airborne to Richmond to force integration of the schools.

        1. LarrytheG Avatar

          In fairness, not going into debt has for decades, been a time-honored principle of Conservatives not just Byrd.

          And, we talk about places like Illinois and New Jersey that are less fiscally responsible than Virginia..

          Over time, ‘pay as you go’ has become more of an idea and less of a reality, to a certain extent. I know our local county is in debt but following “guidelines” with respect to how much and are aggressive about refinancing it when opportunity presents. Most all of our schools and other buildings are borrowed money being payed back. I bet where James is, it’s the same.

          Roads I don’t know about, Maybe Dick does… but with the exception of the 3rd party toll roads.. I’m not sure.. I don’t think we do.

          1. djrippert Avatar

            Debt is not a dirty four letter word unless you are financially illiterate.

        2. Steve Haner Avatar
          Steve Haner

          My grandfather and great uncle knew Senior, and were small cogs in “the machine.” I knew Harry Junior a bit, enough to speak and do my reporter thing. Let the dead bury the dead.

          1. djrippert Avatar

            Bury the dead – fine. Erect statues to the dead in 1976? Not so fine. How about a statue honoring Linwood Holton or Jerry Baliles.

            I know Holton is still alive (at age 97) but who says you can’t erect a statue to a living person.

          2. Steve Haner Avatar
            Steve Haner

            I’ll say it again: Byrd on one side of the courtyard, Wilder on the other, and a teaching moment par excellence.

        3. Nancy_Naive Avatar
          Nancy_Naive

          “‘Py (sic) as you go’ is a form of financial stupidity not conservatism.”

          “Pay as you go” allowed Virginia to skate through the Great Depression virtually unscathed. Of course, that’s because Virginia was living in a depression before it happened.

          1. djrippert Avatar

            And has remained in a depression but for the federal government ever since.

          2. djrippert Avatar

            Skate through the Great Depression? Did you never watch The Waltons? Goodnight, nancy.

        4. idiocracy Avatar

          Debt is only stupid when it is used to finance a depreciating asset. And even then, it can be smart if that depreciating asset generates enough revenue to offset the depreciation.

        5. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
          James Wyatt Whitehead V

          Byrd grew up with a historic lineage but not the money. Dirt poor. Bought a broken down newspaper The Winchester Star and learned from fiscal responsibility you can turn a buck or two. The Stanley Plan or massive resistance was terrible and cannot be defended.

        6. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
          James Wyatt Whitehead V

          I think having the Byrd Statue and the Civil Rights Monument on the grounds of Capitol Square form an important juxtaposition that educates and enlightens. I suppose old Harry is going to have a hard time finding a home now. Maybe Stonewall Jackson cemetery in Winchester or perhaps his old home Rosemount Manor in Berryville.
          https://l450v.alamy.com/450v/m1axxh/harry-hood-byrd-monument-on-the-grounds-of-the-state-capitol-richmond-m1axxh.jpg

          https://live.staticflickr.com/352/18646562521_194e384490_b.jpg

          1. djrippert Avatar

            The bottom of the Chesapeake Bay just south of the Maryland line would make a fine home for the statue of Byrd.

          2. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
            James Wyatt Whitehead V

            I hear you Mr. DJ. It is hard to defend what Carter Glass, Thomas Staples Martin, and Byrd did to Virginia in the era of Jim Crow. Even if you sink his statue Byrd is everywhere. It will be a long time before his footprint on Virginia fades.

    3. David Bither Avatar
      David Bither

      Amongst the cohort of infantry officers I served with, Lee joined the paragon of U.S. Army generals to include Grant and Patton that we sought to emulate. The vast library of military history at Fort Leavenworth documented the selfless bravery and stout leadership provided by Lee during the Mexican-American War. Countless dispatches from the campaign attest to his unusual and repeated acts of courage and valor on the battlefield.

      His strength of character and service to country was demonstrated consistently from his days as a cadet to his appointment as superintendent of West Point. From successful engineering projects on the Mississippi to answering the President’s call to put down the insurrection at Harpers Ferry his “gallantry and courage” were ever-present.

      Lee’s service and conduct during the Civil War was consistent with his past achievements. His tactics were audacious, his leadership almost unique in his ability to lead men under fire, and his care for the lives of his men and those of captured and wounded Union soldiers was legendary.

      I write this not as a history lesson for I’m assuming readers knowledgeable in Virginia’s great history know of the General’s exploits. This is rather to explain why young combat officers chose Lee and others like Lee to model their service even knowing that we would undoubtedly fall short of a great man’s accomplishments.

      What I feel is more evidence of cultural decay (and the cancel cultists) is that people who have never served anything but their own interest, have shown little or no self-sacrifice, have done no great deeds, have accomplished little, and have put themselves ahead of country and family sit in judgment of a man who lived a great, but (like us all) imperfect human life.

      And unlike Jesus staying the hand of those sinners that would stone, these mobs are eager to stone a man and pillory a legacy of character and duty that eclipses their own pettiness.

  5. LarrytheG Avatar

    and in possibly related news:

    ” Del. Josh Cole proposes changing Jefferson Davis Highway to Emancipation Highway

    A bill to change the name of Jefferson Davis Highway throughout Virginia was introduced by Del. Joshua Cole last week and has advanced through a House subcommittee after a 6–4 vote Thursday morning.

    Cole, a Democrat who represents parts of Fredericksburg and Stafford County, introduced a bill that would remove the name of the president of the Confederacy from any stretch of U.S. 1 in Virginia that bears it, and replace it with Emancipation Highway.”

    https://fredericksburg.com/news/local/del-josh-cole-proposes-changing-jefferson-davis-highway-to-emancipation-highway/article_fe1c58f0-cb6c-50c9-b746-23068251556a.html#tracking-source=home-top-story

    And one thing to offer about Lee. Some of the people who revered him ALSO revered folks like Jerfferson Davis… and built memorials and named things after both.

    So even today, we have a road named for Jefferson Davis and no one, until now, has seen fit to address the issue. For decades, black folks have had to drive on a road named for Jefferson Davis and go to schools named for him and other Confederates – to include Lee, and no one differentiated them in terms of “history” until now and it took a black man to do the legislation.

    No history is being “erased”, No books about Jefferson Davis will be burned or banned, nor Lee, nor anyone else – good or evil.

    It’s about HOW “we” want to REMEMBER them – and that means a “collective” we. Did we ever include black folks in that decision – about Jefferson Davis or Lee?

    1. “No history is being “erased”, No books about Jefferson Davis will be burned or banned, nor Lee, nor anyone else – good or evil.”

      How do you know that?

      1. Steve Haner Avatar
        Steve Haner

        Larry confidently assured us nobody would go after anybody except Confederates, those who sought to secede. Not Washington or Jefferson, oh no. So Larry assured us. But Route 1 existed in rudimentary form during the Civil War and giving it a nice Union name seem fine — they won it back.

        1. LarrytheG Avatar

          And it’s pretty much evolved that way in large part with one or two notable exceptions.

          And to Wayne: re: “how do you know history is not being erased”?

          hmm… got some links about book burning and such?

          People are confusing “history” with memorials – they are not the same.

          1. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            The incineration of books isn’t the only method of rewriting history. Book burning is just used by people wishing to invoke Godwin without going full potato.

          2. Larry,

            You mixed present and future tense in your comment, so I should have been more specific when phrasing my question. Here goes:

            Regarding your comment: “No books about Jefferson Davis will be burned or banned, nor Lee, nor anyone else”, will you please be kind enough to tell me how you know this to be true?

            Thank you.

          3. LarrytheG Avatar

            Haven’t seen a single book burning and no one has presented evidence to the contrary so it must be true, eh?

            Wayne, I think you need some activities to occupy your spare time, no?

          4. I think perhaps you should occupy your spare time by answering the question.

        2. Matt Adams Avatar
          Matt Adams

          They should just rename James Madison Highway to Emancipation Highway, after all he owned slaves and 15 goes through Gettysburg where the address we given.

          1. When people advocate renaming roads they never seem to consider the hassle and cost of the address change which each person who lives along the road will incur.

          2. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            “WayneS | January 22, 2021 at 1:04 pm |
            When people advocate renaming roads they never seem to consider the hassle and cost of the address change which each person who lives along the road will incur.”

            Without a doubt, it reminds me of the million or two dollars the NDA set aside to rename posts. It appears Congress doesn’t know how much paper is involved with renaming something. You won’t change something like Fort Benning for less than $15 million alone.

            Who honestly wants their name associated with Blackstone and Ft. Pickett.

    2. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
      James Wyatt Whitehead V

      You can find parts of the original Route 1 between Washington and Richmond. It was known as Telegraph Road. Between Petersburg and Mecklenburg County Route 1 was known as a toll road called the Boydton Plank Road. Both were notorious for axle deep mud.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar

        James – are you familiar with this:

        A HISTORY OF ROADS IN VIRGINIA“THE MOST CONVENIENT WAYES”

        https://www.virginiadot.org/about/resources/historyofrds.pdf

        1. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
          James Wyatt Whitehead V

          Thanks Mr. Larry. I have not come across this and right up my alley.

      2. I enjoy looking for all the old sections of Three Chopt Road.

      3. djrippert Avatar

        I grew up 1 block from Rt 1 on Huntington Ave, just south of Alexandria. The highway was called either Route 1, Richmond Highway or, “Your number 1 highway”. Given that I worked at an Exxon station on the corner of Belle View Blvd and Ft Hunt Road after school (in high school) I gave countless people directions to Rt 1. Telegraph Rd was a short road running roughly parallel to “Your number one highway” that merged with Richmond Highway near VanDorn St.

        1. LarrytheG Avatar

          Heckfire, I worked at Phillips 66 and did learn a LOT!

          and yes, it was on Route 1 and Jefferson Davis also.

      4. idiocracy Avatar

        James, my favorite way to find the original routing of US highways is to use historic topographical maps.

        There is a website for them:

        https://livingatlas.arcgis.com/topoexplorer/index.html

  6. LarrytheG Avatar

    and in possibly related news:

    ” Del. Josh Cole proposes changing Jefferson Davis Highway to Emancipation Highway

    A bill to change the name of Jefferson Davis Highway throughout Virginia was introduced by Del. Joshua Cole last week and has advanced through a House subcommittee after a 6–4 vote Thursday morning.

    Cole, a Democrat who represents parts of Fredericksburg and Stafford County, introduced a bill that would remove the name of the president of the Confederacy from any stretch of U.S. 1 in Virginia that bears it, and replace it with Emancipation Highway.”

    https://fredericksburg.com/news/local/del-josh-cole-proposes-changing-jefferson-davis-highway-to-emancipation-highway/article_fe1c58f0-cb6c-50c9-b746-23068251556a.html#tracking-source=home-top-story

    And one thing to offer about Lee. Some of the people who revered him ALSO revered folks like Jerfferson Davis… and built memorials and named things after both.

    So even today, we have a road named for Jefferson Davis and no one, until now, has seen fit to address the issue. For decades, black folks have had to drive on a road named for Jefferson Davis and go to schools named for him and other Confederates – to include Lee, and no one differentiated them in terms of “history” until now and it took a black man to do the legislation.

    No history is being “erased”, No books about Jefferson Davis will be burned or banned, nor Lee, nor anyone else – good or evil.

    It’s about HOW “we” want to REMEMBER them – and that means a “collective” we. Did we ever include black folks in that decision – about Jefferson Davis or Lee?

    1. “No history is being “erased”, No books about Jefferson Davis will be burned or banned, nor Lee, nor anyone else – good or evil.”

      How do you know that?

      1. Steve Haner Avatar
        Steve Haner

        Larry confidently assured us nobody would go after anybody except Confederates, those who sought to secede. Not Washington or Jefferson, oh no. So Larry assured us. But Route 1 existed in rudimentary form during the Civil War and giving it a nice Union name seem fine — they won it back.

        1. Matt Adams Avatar
          Matt Adams

          They should just rename James Madison Highway to Emancipation Highway, after all he owned slaves and 15 goes through Gettysburg where the address we given.

          1. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            “WayneS | January 22, 2021 at 1:04 pm |
            When people advocate renaming roads they never seem to consider the hassle and cost of the address change which each person who lives along the road will incur.”

            Without a doubt, it reminds me of the million or two dollars the NDA set aside to rename posts. It appears Congress doesn’t know how much paper is involved with renaming something. You won’t change something like Fort Benning for less than $15 million alone.

            Who honestly wants their name associated with Blackstone and Ft. Pickett.

          2. When people advocate renaming roads they never seem to consider the hassle and cost of the address change which each person who lives along the road will incur.

        2. LarrytheG Avatar

          And it’s pretty much evolved that way in large part with one or two notable exceptions.

          And to Wayne: re: “how do you know history is not being erased”?

          hmm… got some links about book burning and such?

          People are confusing “history” with memorials – they are not the same.

          1. Larry,

            You mixed present and future tense in your comment, so I should have been more specific when phrasing my question. Here goes:

            Regarding your comment: “No books about Jefferson Davis will be burned or banned, nor Lee, nor anyone else”, will you please be kind enough to tell me how you know this to be true?

            Thank you.

          2. LarrytheG Avatar

            Haven’t seen a single book burning and no one has presented evidence to the contrary so it must be true, eh?

            Wayne, I think you need some activities to occupy your spare time, no?

          3. I think perhaps you should occupy your spare time by answering the question.

          4. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            The incineration of books isn’t the only method of rewriting history. Book burning is just used by people wishing to invoke Godwin without going full potato.

    2. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
      James Wyatt Whitehead V

      You can find parts of the original Route 1 between Washington and Richmond. It was known as Telegraph Road. Between Petersburg and Mecklenburg County Route 1 was known as a toll road called the Boydton Plank Road. Both were notorious for axle deep mud.

      1. I enjoy looking for all the old sections of Three Chopt Road.

      2. djrippert Avatar

        I grew up 1 block from Rt 1 on Huntington Ave, just south of Alexandria. The highway was called either Route 1, Richmond Highway or, “Your number 1 highway”. Given that I worked at an Exxon station on the corner of Belle View Blvd and Ft Hunt Road after school (in high school) I gave countless people directions to Rt 1. Telegraph Rd was a short road running roughly parallel to “Your number one highway” that merged with Richmond Highway near VanDorn St.

        1. LarrytheG Avatar

          Heckfire, I worked at Phillips 66 and did learn a LOT!

          and yes, it was on Route 1 and Jefferson Davis also.

      3. LarrytheG Avatar

        James – are you familiar with this:

        A HISTORY OF ROADS IN VIRGINIA”THE MOST CONVENIENT WAYES”

        https://www.virginiadot.org/about/resources/historyofrds.pdf

        1. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
          James Wyatt Whitehead V

          Thanks Mr. Larry. I have not come across this and right up my alley.

      4. idiocracy Avatar

        James, my favorite way to find the original routing of US highways is to use historic topographical maps.

        There is a website for them:

        https://livingatlas.arcgis.com/topoexplorer/index.html

  7. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
    James Wyatt Whitehead V

    Yesterday was Stonewall Jackson’s birthday. I believe this is the first year since 1889 without an official Lee-Jackson day.

    1. Yes. My Outlook calendar reminded me yesterday morning.

      Every year on his birthday I pay tribute to bluesman John Lee Hooker by partaking of “One Bourbon, One Scotch and One Beer” after dinner.

      In a similar vein, yesterday I refrained from drinking, smoking and gambling.

  8. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
    James Wyatt Whitehead V

    Yesterday was Stonewall Jackson’s birthday. I believe this is the first year since 1889 without an official Lee-Jackson day.

    1. Yes. My Outlook calendar reminded me yesterday morning.

      Every year on his birthday I pay tribute to bluesman John Lee Hooker by partaking of “One Bourbon, One Scotch and One Beer” after dinner.

      In a similar vein, yesterday I refrained from drinking, smoking and gambling.

  9. OK, OK. I’m just going by the videos. If the videos inaccurately portrayed Lee’s emancipation of slaves, then take the videos to task. If they are inaccurate, I’m not going to defend them. I expect that the truth of the matter is muddled by the complexities of the estate and the law.

    1. LarrytheG Avatar

      Might also be aware of WHERE you are getting these things and if those folks are truly objective or have a view they want to promote.

      1. Matt Adams Avatar
        Matt Adams

        “LarrytheG | January 22, 2021 at 12:53 pm | Log in to Reply
        Might also be aware of WHERE you are getting these things and if those folks are truly objective or have a view they want to promote.”

        That’s out and out hilarious. I’ve called out authors for inaccuracies and their response was, well take it up with them I didn’t say it. You cheered for that author, take your feigned outrage somewhere else.

        1. LarrytheG Avatar

          I cheered for WHAT author? I’d say the same thing no matter who or what – don’t be referencing a source as an authorotative source if they are obvious advocates of a viewpoint, or if you do, admit that you are and present their view as probably biased.

          Left, right, purple or polkadot – same issue.

          1. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            “LarrytheG | January 22, 2021 at 1:15 pm | Reply
            I cheered for WHAT author? I’d say the same thing no matter who or what – don’t be referencing a source as an authorotative source if they are obvious advocates of a viewpoint, or if you do, admit that you are and present their view as probably biased.

            Left, right, purple or polkadot – same issue.”

            That’s a bald faced lie, given who and what you source to “refute” others.

  10. OK, OK. I’m just going by the videos. If the videos inaccurately portrayed Lee’s emancipation of slaves, then take the videos to task. If they are inaccurate, I’m not going to defend them. I expect that the truth of the matter is muddled by the complexities of the estate and the law.

    1. LarrytheG Avatar

      Might also be aware of WHERE you are getting these things and if those folks are truly objective or have a view they want to promote.

      1. Matt Adams Avatar
        Matt Adams

        “LarrytheG | January 22, 2021 at 12:53 pm | Log in to Reply
        Might also be aware of WHERE you are getting these things and if those folks are truly objective or have a view they want to promote.”

        That’s out and out hilarious. I’ve called out authors for inaccuracies and their response was, well take it up with them I didn’t say it. You cheered for that author, take your feigned outrage somewhere else.

        1. LarrytheG Avatar

          I cheered for WHAT author? I’d say the same thing no matter who or what – don’t be referencing a source as an authorotative source if they are obvious advocates of a viewpoint, or if you do, admit that you are and present their view as probably biased.

          Left, right, purple or polkadot – same issue.

          1. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            “LarrytheG | January 22, 2021 at 1:15 pm | Reply
            I cheered for WHAT author? I’d say the same thing no matter who or what – don’t be referencing a source as an authorotative source if they are obvious advocates of a viewpoint, or if you do, admit that you are and present their view as probably biased.

            Left, right, purple or polkadot – same issue.”

            That’s a bald faced lie, given who and what you source to “refute” others.

  11. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
    James Wyatt Whitehead V

    The story of the Reverend Mack Lee is a good read. The general’s man servant during the war years. Mack was left a sum of $360 in Robert E. Lee’s will. He educated himself, became a minister, built numerous churches, and brought thousands to the cross. You will never find this sort of stuff in modern scholarship on Lee.
    https://docsouth.unc.edu/neh/leewilliam/lee.html

    1. That appears to be the complete document, but do you know for sure whether the pages included at the link include the entire text of the book/pamphlet or whether they are just an excerpt?

      Whichever it is, I’ll bet it’s not easy to find a hard copy of it.

  12. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
    James Wyatt Whitehead V

    The story of the Reverend Mack Lee is a good read. The general’s man servant during the war years. Mack was left a sum of $360 in Robert E. Lee’s will. He educated himself, became a minister, built numerous churches, and brought thousands to the cross. You will never find this sort of stuff in modern scholarship on Lee.
    https://docsouth.unc.edu/neh/leewilliam/lee.html

    1. That appears to be the complete document, but do you know for sure whether the pages included at the link include the entire text of the book/pamphlet or whether they are just an excerpt?

      Whichever it is, I’ll bet it’s not easy to find a hard copy of it.

  13. UpAgnstTheWall Avatar
    UpAgnstTheWall

    Maybe next they can do Benedict Arnold and then the Rosenbergs.

    1. Matt Adams Avatar
      Matt Adams

      Benedict Arnold is still lauded, well at least his boot is.

      However the Rosenberg’s were spies, so I don’t know if you can make their story any less nefarious.

  14. UpAgnstTheWall Avatar
    UpAgnstTheWall

    Maybe next they can do Benedict Arnold and then the Rosenbergs.

    1. Matt Adams Avatar
      Matt Adams

      Benedict Arnold is still lauded, well at least his boot is.

      However the Rosenberg’s were spies, so I don’t know if you can make their story any less nefarious.

  15. djrippert Avatar

    What to do with all those now empty statue pedestals in Richmond?

    I have a few ideas …

    Lewis Burwell “Chesty” Puller – West Point, Va. Marine Lt General. Most decorated Marine in history.

    Desmond Doss – Lynchburg, Va – Only conscientious objector in history to win the Medal of Honor.

    Samuel Lee Gravely – Richmond, Va – first African American in the U.S. Navy to serve aboard a fighting ship as an officer, the first to command a Navy ship, the first fleet commander and the first to become a flag officer, retiring as a vice admiral.

    Patsy Cline – greatest country singer ever (ok, my opinion) – Winchester Va – Died in a plane crash at age 30.

    Opechancanoug – Powhatan warrior and chief who did his best to kill the English colonists in Virginia before they could could put down roots and become today’s Plantation Elite. Taken prisoner of war by a member of the plantation elite at age 92 and shot in the back while in custody.

    1. Add Gabriel Prosser, rebel slave and freedom fighter. He REALLY fought the plantation elite.

    2. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
      James Wyatt Whitehead V

      My Uncle Bill dated Patsy Cline back in the late 40s. According to the family legend he dumped Virginia Hensley for a far more attractive lady my aunt Sarah Francis.
      https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/18845961/willie-kenneth-heflin

      1. djrippert Avatar

        Ahhh but could your aunt sing “walking after midnight” like this …

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgGI-HOQZBk

        1. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
          James Wyatt Whitehead V

          Neko Case is the closest thing I have heard to that strong and pure voice of Patsy Cline. Aunt “Sir” Francis sure could stir up a pot of green beans. I do miss her cooking. Uncle Bill used to tell us how he worked for the CIA but could not reveal any of his secret missions to us kids. Classified you know. When he retired I discovered he was a CIA bus driver from Mt. Weather to DC everyday for 30 years. In a strange twist Uncle Bill and Aunt “Sir’ Francis are buried directly across from Patsy Cline at the Double Toll Gate cemetery.

  16. djrippert Avatar

    What to do with all those now empty statue pedestals in Richmond?

    I have a few ideas …

    Lewis Burwell “Chesty” Puller – West Point, Va. Marine Lt General. Most decorated Marine in history.

    Desmond Doss – Lynchburg, Va – Only conscientious objector in history to win the Medal of Honor.

    Samuel Lee Gravely – Richmond, Va – first African American in the U.S. Navy to serve aboard a fighting ship as an officer, the first to command a Navy ship, the first fleet commander and the first to become a flag officer, retiring as a vice admiral.

    Patsy Cline – greatest country singer ever (ok, my opinion) – Winchester Va – Died in a plane crash at age 30.

    Opechancanoug – Powhatan warrior and chief who did his best to kill the English colonists in Virginia before they could could put down roots and become today’s Plantation Elite. Taken prisoner of war by a member of the plantation elite at age 92 and shot in the back while in custody.

    1. Add Gabriel Prosser, rebel slave and freedom fighter. He REALLY fought the plantation elite.

    2. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
      James Wyatt Whitehead V

      My Uncle Bill dated Patsy Cline back in the late 40s. According to the family legend he dumped Virginia Hensley for a far more attractive lady my aunt Sarah Francis.
      https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/18845961/willie-kenneth-heflin

      1. djrippert Avatar

        Ahhh but could your aunt sing “walking after midnight” like this …

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgGI-HOQZBk

        1. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
          James Wyatt Whitehead V

          Neko Case is the closest thing I have heard to that strong and pure voice of Patsy Cline. Aunt “Sir” Francis sure could stir up a pot of green beans. I do miss her cooking. Uncle Bill used to tell us how he worked for the CIA but could not reveal any of his secret missions to us kids. Classified you know. When he retired I discovered he was a CIA bus driver from Mt. Weather to DC everyday for 30 years. In a strange twist Uncle Bill and Aunt “Sir’ Francis are buried directly across from Patsy Cline at the Double Toll Gate cemetery.

  17. TooManyTaxes Avatar
    TooManyTaxes

    Who cares about dead Confederates? What about the religious bigot whose moving into the Naval Observatory soon?

  18. TooManyTaxes Avatar
    TooManyTaxes

    Who cares about dead Confederates? What about the religious bigot whose moving into the Naval Observatory soon?

  19. Bill O'Keefe Avatar
    Bill O’Keefe

    Robert E Lee is one of the most maligned figures in American history. And, the distortions have only gotten worse in the past year. He was a man of great integrity whose allegiance to Virginia is usually misunderstood. This one act should not overshadow an exemplary life well lived.
    President Eisenhower had this to say about Lee, “General Robert E. Lee was, in my estimation, one of the supremely gifted men produced by our Nation. He believed unswervingly in the Constitutional validity of his cause which until 1865 was still an arguable question in America; he was a poised and inspiring leader, true to the high trust reposed in him by millions of his fellow citizens; he was thoughtful yet demanding of his officers and men, forbearing with captured enemies but ingenious, unrelenting and personally courageous in battle, and never disheartened by a reverse or obstacle. Through all his many trials, he remained selfless almost to a fault and unfailing in his faith in God. Taken altogether, he was noble as a leader and as a man, and unsullied as I read the pages of our history.

    From deep conviction, I simply say this: a nation of men of Lee’s calibre would be unconquerable in spirit and soul. Indeed, to the degree that present-day American youth will strive to emulate his rare qualities, including his devotion to this land as revealed in his painstaking efforts to help heal the Nation’s wounds once the bitter struggle was over, we, in our own time of danger in a divided world, will be strengthened and our love of freedom sustained.”
    Readers and commenters on this blog would do well to carefully read and learn about him.

    1. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
      James Wyatt Whitehead V

      The last act of reconciliation was President Ford restoring Lee’s citizenship in 1975. Our current President voted yes back when he was a little known Senator from Delaware.
      https://www.fordlibrarymuseum.gov/library/speeches/750473.htm

    2. LarrytheG Avatar

      I was brought up being taught that Lee was a great man. I’ve spent all of my life believing he was a great man.

      But I was also aware of the divide between how white folks felt and how black folks felt.

      And I might characterize it a little like asking Virginia Native Americans how they felt about …say John Smith or even Columbus in terms of “great” men.

      Most black folks to not have the same reverence for Lee that many white southerners do.

      It’s not that they hate him as a man or don’t appreciate his other virtues, it’s the role he played that overshaddowed everything else – in their minds.’

      It did not help that he was also revered by Jim Crow folks and he was considered the greatest of the other Confederates .. but a Confederate like the others that Jim Crow saw ALL of them as worthy of being memorialized – in many public places, many towns large and small… with schools and highways and public buildings and military bases named for them all including Lee.

      To a certain extent – we’ve never reconciled how southern white folk think of history and descendants of slaves think of history and it still very much does affect our current attitudes and still divides us.

      1. Bill O'Keefe Avatar
        Bill O’Keefe

        I generally don’t agree with much of what you say but in this case I do. Reconciliation involves having serious conversations and attempting to understand the difference between the black perspective of Lee and the white one.

        1. LarrytheG Avatar

          I’m truly relieved , I was expecting an attack… thank you!

          1. Steve Haner Avatar
            Steve Haner

            All great men and woman remain human and flawed, and remain trapped in their times. Lee remains worthy of remembrance, in my mind mainly for his efforts at post war reconciliation and his deep (and wise) fear of what the Lost Cause movement would turn into. He asked for no statues (but might have been pleased that the college took his name.)

          2. LarrytheG Avatar

            yep,but you’re still seeing this as a white guy.

          3. Steve Haner Avatar
            Steve Haner

            And you’re still one too. Sorry you are ashamed of it.

          4. LarrytheG Avatar

            I am but not ashamed.. just consider it a responsibility to understand and realize what we need to do to go forward.

  20. Bill O'Keefe Avatar
    Bill O’Keefe

    Robert E Lee is one of the most maligned figures in American history. And, the distortions have only gotten worse in the past year. He was a man of great integrity whose allegiance to Virginia is usually misunderstood. This one act should not overshadow an exemplary life well lived.
    President Eisenhower had this to say about Lee, “General Robert E. Lee was, in my estimation, one of the supremely gifted men produced by our Nation. He believed unswervingly in the Constitutional validity of his cause which until 1865 was still an arguable question in America; he was a poised and inspiring leader, true to the high trust reposed in him by millions of his fellow citizens; he was thoughtful yet demanding of his officers and men, forbearing with captured enemies but ingenious, unrelenting and personally courageous in battle, and never disheartened by a reverse or obstacle. Through all his many trials, he remained selfless almost to a fault and unfailing in his faith in God. Taken altogether, he was noble as a leader and as a man, and unsullied as I read the pages of our history.

    From deep conviction, I simply say this: a nation of men of Lee’s calibre would be unconquerable in spirit and soul. Indeed, to the degree that present-day American youth will strive to emulate his rare qualities, including his devotion to this land as revealed in his painstaking efforts to help heal the Nation’s wounds once the bitter struggle was over, we, in our own time of danger in a divided world, will be strengthened and our love of freedom sustained.”
    Readers and commenters on this blog would do well to carefully read and learn about him.

    1. LarrytheG Avatar

      I was brought up being taught that Lee was a great man. I’ve spent all of my life believing he was a great man.

      But I was also aware of the divide between how white folks felt and how black folks felt.

      And I might characterize it a little like asking Virginia Native Americans how they felt about …say John Smith or even Columbus in terms of “great” men.

      Most black folks to not have the same reverence for Lee that many white southerners do.

      It’s not that they hate him as a man or don’t appreciate his other virtues, it’s the role he played that overshaddowed everything else – in their minds.’

      It did not help that he was also revered by Jim Crow folks and he was considered the greatest of the other Confederates .. but a Confederate like the others that Jim Crow saw ALL of them as worthy of being memorialized – in many public places, many towns large and small… with schools and highways and public buildings and military bases named for them all including Lee.

      To a certain extent – we’ve never reconciled how southern white folk think of history and descendants of slaves think of history and it still very much does affect our current attitudes and still divides us.

      1. Bill O'Keefe Avatar
        Bill O’Keefe

        I generally don’t agree with much of what you say but in this case I do. Reconciliation involves having serious conversations and attempting to understand the difference between the black perspective of Lee and the white one.

        1. LarrytheG Avatar

          I’m truly relieved , I was expecting an attack… thank you!

    2. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
      James Wyatt Whitehead V

      The last act of reconciliation was President Ford restoring Lee’s citizenship in 1975. Our current President voted yes back when he was a little known Senator from Delaware.
      https://www.fordlibrarymuseum.gov/library/speeches/750473.htm

  21. Bill O'Keefe Avatar
    Bill O’Keefe

    Well said. Everyone would benefit from reading his definition of a gentleman as well as a few other books about his life. He would have opposed the Lost Cause with every fiber of his being.

  22. Bill O'Keefe Avatar
    Bill O’Keefe

    Well said. Everyone would benefit from reading his definition of a gentleman as well as a few other books about his life. He would have opposed the Lost Cause with every fiber of his being.

  23. Steve Haner Avatar
    Steve Haner

    From Wikipedia: Again, these were slaves freed in the 1857 Custis will, but the will set a five year deadline… It is, uh, Wikipedia, but is in line with an account I read in a history of Arlington House and Arlington Cemetery.

    The Norris case
    In 1859, three of the Arlington slaves—Wesley Norris, his sister Mary, and a cousin of theirs—fled for the North, but were captured a few miles from the Pennsylvania border and forced to return to Arlington. On June 24, 1859, the anti-slavery newspaper New York Daily Tribune published two anonymous letters (dated June 19, 1859[46] and June 21, 1859[47]), each claiming to have heard that Lee had the Norrises whipped, and each going so far as to claim that the overseer refused to whip the woman but that Lee took the whip and flogged her personally. Lee privately wrote to his son Custis that “The N. Y. Tribune has attacked me for my treatment of your grandfather’s slaves, but I shall not reply. He has left me an unpleasant legacy.”[48]

    Wesley Norris himself spoke out about the incident after the war, in an 1866 interview printed in an abolitionist newspaper, the National Anti-Slavery Standard. Norris stated that after they had been captured, and forced to return to Arlington, Lee told them that “he would teach us a lesson we would not soon forget.” According to Norris, Lee then had the three of them firmly tied to posts by the overseer, and ordered them whipped with fifty lashes for the men and twenty for Mary Norris. Norris claimed that Lee encouraged the whipping, and that when the overseer refused to do it, called in the county constable to do it instead. Unlike the anonymous letter writers, he does not state that Lee himself whipped any of the slaves. According to Norris, Lee “frequently enjoined [Constable] Williams to ‘lay it on well,’ an injunction which he did not fail to heed; not satisfied with simply lacerating our naked flesh, Gen. Lee then ordered the overseer to thoroughly wash our backs with brine, which was done.”[44][49]

    The slaves knew they were ordered to be freed in the 1857 will and did not accept the delay until 1863 without unpleasantness, and Lee punished them, including the break up of families (demonstrated in the document.)

    Larry. Key point to remember. Lee never asked to be venerated, put up on a pedestal, made into the Marble Man. But he died soon after the war. Others used him as a political counterpoint to the GOP’s “waving of the bloody shirt.”

    1. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
      James Wyatt Whitehead V

      This is the full account Wesley Norris as printed in the newspaper. Lee immediately had trouble with the Arlington slaves upon the death of GWP Custis. It became known to the slaves that they were to be freed within 5 years. Lee explained that all of the conditions of the will had to be fulfilled first and then the manumission could occur. Some were not going to wait.
      January, 1858 Lee had his first runaways returned. They were rented out by a slave agent. Summer of 1858 a group of men attempted to rebel against Lee. Lee had help from other slaves in subduing them. They were jailed by the sheriff and sent to White House on the Pamunky River to work on that Custis plantation. In the Norris case I have a hard time believing that Lee would have administered the lashings himself. It is likely to have been carried out by the local sheriff. As executor it would not have been his place to do so and as a colonel discipline was administered by others not the commanding officer. Nonetheless he did order that punishment. Norris was also rented to the Orange and Alexandria RR and another RR in the deep south. He escaped in 1863. In a strange twist, after the war Norris was employed by the US government as a caretaker of Arlington National Cemetery.
      http://fair-use.org/wesley-norris/testimony-of-wesley-norris

    2. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
      James Wyatt Whitehead V

      Mr. Haner you are right about the monuments. Lee did not want any marble or bronze of himself on display. Even the battlefields. Lee would have preferred not memorializing those places as well. He did want the valor and courage of his soldiers to be remembered. One of his incomplete tasks was to write his account of the campaigns of the Civil War. But Washington College and Mary kept him very busy. I think Lee always knew that his name and fame would keep alive those remembrances of the war and the burden that would come with it.

      Lexington, VA., August 5, 1869.

      Dear Sir–Absence from Lexington has prevented my receiving until to-day your letter of the 26th ult., inclosing an invitation from the Gettysburg Battle-field Memorial Association, to attend a meeting of the officers engaged in that battle at Gettysburg, for the purpose of marking upon the ground by enduring memorials of granite the positions and movements of the armies on the field. My engagements will not permit me to be present. I believe if there, I could not add anything material to the information existing on the subject. I think it wiser, moreover, not to keep open the sores of war but to follow the examples of those nations who endeavored to obliterate the marks of civil strife, to commit to oblivion the feelings engendered. Very respectfully,
      Your obedient servant,
      R. E. Lee.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar

        Yes. Lee did NOTwant the monuments nor memorials but the Jim Crow folks DID, and despite his wishes, he became associated with the lost cause in the eyes of many and especially so blacks.

        Today any/all monuments and memorials erected by Jim Crow are viewed negatively by black folks and rightly so and what Lee wanted not even known – the proof is in all the statues of him that do exist.

        I got razzed by James earlier on the Sedgewick Monument at the entrance to the Bloody Angle Battlefield. It actually had nothing to do with Jim Crow at all, and it actually was erected by his men as a tribute to him on his death on the battlefield – not Jim Crow.

        The fact that we still confuse (accidently or on purpose) monuments in terms of their original intended purpose when put up – contributes to a continuing lack of understanding of the issues altogether for some.

        1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
          Nancy_Naive

          Tough to separate the wheat from the chaff in this one. Worse, perhaps, is even should you succeed, you are left only with bitter wheat.

          1. Steve Haner Avatar
            Steve Haner

            Learning and learning from history is never a waste of time. Reading a Mountbatten biography now — CBI theater, Indian independence, not to Ireland yet….All those grandkids of Queen Victoria, what an bunch of doers. THAT’s the key thread in 20th Century European history, that one incredible family.

          2. Nancy_Naive Avatar
            Nancy_Naive

            Keep in mind, that a portion, albeit sometimes small, is more legend than fact. Twain said it best. Rogers quantified it. Average the results of multiple measurements.

        2. Steve Haner Avatar
          Steve Haner

          Hey, I get it Larry, the winners can put up statues to their generals but not the losers. That’s only fair. You are so helplessly mired in bias….

          1. LarrytheG Avatar

            I am and not you? bahahahahah

            Listen, Mr. back-door ad hom… “history” is NOT what you tell everyone is via your preferred version in public spaces.

            And you don’t do decades of slapping black people in the face and call it “history” unless you echoing Jim Crow hate in my view.

            bias my butt.

          2. Nancy_Naive Avatar
            Nancy_Naive

            So, if the SS had rushed to erect a monument…

            I think future generations have the right to reevaluate everything continuously.

          3. Bill O'Keefe Avatar
            Bill O’Keefe

            I like your straight talking Steve.

  24. Steve Haner Avatar
    Steve Haner

    From Wikipedia: Again, these were slaves freed in the 1857 Custis will, but the will set a five year deadline… It is, uh, Wikipedia, but is in line with an account I read in a history of Arlington House and Arlington Cemetery.

    The Norris case
    In 1859, three of the Arlington slaves—Wesley Norris, his sister Mary, and a cousin of theirs—fled for the North, but were captured a few miles from the Pennsylvania border and forced to return to Arlington. On June 24, 1859, the anti-slavery newspaper New York Daily Tribune published two anonymous letters (dated June 19, 1859[46] and June 21, 1859[47]), each claiming to have heard that Lee had the Norrises whipped, and each going so far as to claim that the overseer refused to whip the woman but that Lee took the whip and flogged her personally. Lee privately wrote to his son Custis that “The N. Y. Tribune has attacked me for my treatment of your grandfather’s slaves, but I shall not reply. He has left me an unpleasant legacy.”[48]

    Wesley Norris himself spoke out about the incident after the war, in an 1866 interview printed in an abolitionist newspaper, the National Anti-Slavery Standard. Norris stated that after they had been captured, and forced to return to Arlington, Lee told them that “he would teach us a lesson we would not soon forget.” According to Norris, Lee then had the three of them firmly tied to posts by the overseer, and ordered them whipped with fifty lashes for the men and twenty for Mary Norris. Norris claimed that Lee encouraged the whipping, and that when the overseer refused to do it, called in the county constable to do it instead. Unlike the anonymous letter writers, he does not state that Lee himself whipped any of the slaves. According to Norris, Lee “frequently enjoined [Constable] Williams to ‘lay it on well,’ an injunction which he did not fail to heed; not satisfied with simply lacerating our naked flesh, Gen. Lee then ordered the overseer to thoroughly wash our backs with brine, which was done.”[44][49]

    The slaves knew they were ordered to be freed in the 1857 will and did not accept the delay until 1863 without unpleasantness, and Lee punished them, including the break up of families (demonstrated in the document.)

    Larry. Key point to remember. Lee never asked to be venerated, put up on a pedestal, made into the Marble Man. But he died soon after the war. Others used him as a political counterpoint to the GOP’s “waving of the bloody shirt.”

    1. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
      James Wyatt Whitehead V

      This is the full account Wesley Norris as printed in the newspaper. Lee immediately had trouble with the Arlington slaves upon the death of GWP Custis. It became known to the slaves that they were to be freed within 5 years. Lee explained that all of the conditions of the will had to be fulfilled first and then the manumission could occur. Some were not going to wait.
      January, 1858 Lee had his first runaways returned. They were rented out by a slave agent. Summer of 1858 a group of men attempted to rebel against Lee. Lee had help from other slaves in subduing them. They were jailed by the sheriff and sent to White House on the Pamunky River to work on that Custis plantation. In the Norris case I have a hard time believing that Lee would have administered the lashings himself. It is likely to have been carried out by the local sheriff. As executor it would not have been his place to do so and as a colonel discipline was administered by others not the commanding officer. Nonetheless he did order that punishment. Norris was also rented to the Orange and Alexandria RR and another RR in the deep south. He escaped in 1863. In a strange twist, after the war Norris was employed by the US government as a caretaker of Arlington National Cemetery.
      http://fair-use.org/wesley-norris/testimony-of-wesley-norris

    2. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
      James Wyatt Whitehead V

      Mr. Haner you are right about the monuments. Lee did not want any marble or bronze of himself on display. Even the battlefields. Lee would have preferred not memorializing those places as well. He did want the valor and courage of his soldiers to be remembered. One of his incomplete tasks was to write his account of the campaigns of the Civil War. But Washington College and Mary kept him very busy. I think Lee always knew that his name and fame would keep alive those remembrances of the war and the burden that would come with it.

      Lexington, VA., August 5, 1869.

      Dear Sir–Absence from Lexington has prevented my receiving until to-day your letter of the 26th ult., inclosing an invitation from the Gettysburg Battle-field Memorial Association, to attend a meeting of the officers engaged in that battle at Gettysburg, for the purpose of marking upon the ground by enduring memorials of granite the positions and movements of the armies on the field. My engagements will not permit me to be present. I believe if there, I could not add anything material to the information existing on the subject. I think it wiser, moreover, not to keep open the sores of war but to follow the examples of those nations who endeavored to obliterate the marks of civil strife, to commit to oblivion the feelings engendered. Very respectfully,
      Your obedient servant,
      R. E. Lee.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar

        Yes. Lee did NOTwant the monuments nor memorials but the Jim Crow folks DID, and despite his wishes, he became associated with the lost cause in the eyes of many and especially so blacks.

        Today any/all monuments and memorials erected by Jim Crow are viewed negatively by black folks and rightly so and what Lee wanted not even known – the proof is in all the statues of him that do exist.

        I got razzed by James earlier on the Sedgewick Monument at the entrance to the Bloody Angle Battlefield. It actually had nothing to do with Jim Crow at all, and it actually was erected by his men as a tribute to him on his death on the battlefield – not Jim Crow.

        The fact that we still confuse (accidently or on purpose) monuments in terms of their original intended purpose when put up – contributes to a continuing lack of understanding of the issues altogether for some.

  25. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
    James Wyatt Whitehead V

    Mr. Haner, the story of Mountbatten is terrific. He sure did live a life. My Indian in laws are big Mountbatten fans for his work involving independence. The older generation were born subjects of the British empire and actually proud of it. In fact my father in law believes that the United States will eventually partition as India did. Moutbatten’s death is so senseless and tragic.

  26. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
    James Wyatt Whitehead V

    Mr. Haner, the story of Mountbatten is terrific. He sure did live a life. My Indian in laws are big Mountbatten fans for his work involving independence. The older generation were born subjects of the British empire and actually proud of it. In fact my father in law believes that the United States will eventually partition as India did. Moutbatten’s death is so senseless and tragic.

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