Bacon's Rebellion

Democracy Thrives in Sunlight

Religious “Freedom” in Virginia

—

by

James A. Bacon
in

I

t’s Good Friday and thoughts turn to the resurrection. But that begs some questions about Virginia, religion, bias and other oddities, not to mention myths.

A couple of months ago, I was driving and listened to a “Fresh Air” segment that actually ran on NPR a year before. The guest was Steven Waldman who had written a provocative book called “Founding Faith: Providence, Politics, and the Birth of Religious Freedom in America.”

It was a fascinating interview for me since I have long heard all the old saws here in Virginia about how our beloved state was a torch of religious freedom, that it was the bedrock of a “Christian” America and about how all over our founding fathers, such as the beloved Thomas Jefferson, rang the bell of Christian freedom.

Bunk, says Waldman (I went back and listened to his interview).

For one thing, Virginia was anything but a hotbed of religious freedom. As in most of the pre-revolutionary states, freedom involved “toleration of various Protestant sects and did not involve Jews or Catholics or atheists,” says Waldman.

Indeed, Catholics (I was raised one, by the way) were regarded as unwholesome and dangerous “papists” and their church was a “whore” for taking money offerings. Our freedom-loving colonist forefathers prohibited Catholics from holding office in 1640 unless they took an oath of allegiance to the Church of England. “Popish” priests were to be deported. Jews likewise didn’t exactly receive a welcome mat by the so-called freedom-loving “Christians.” They were kept out of Virginia for at least a couple of generations in the 1600s. Also not welcome: Quakers and Puritans.

Christian conservatives love to characterize Virginia and the U.S. as a “Christian” nation. Not exactly, says Waldman. With the revolution came the idea, albeit a somewhat limited one, of religious tolerance. George Washington, for instance, encouraged the rapid anti-Catholicism among his troops to end. Why? He realized they needed help from mostly-Catholic French Canadians against the British.

Or, take Thomas Jefferson, the demigod that everyone in the Old Dominion reveres and some have named their neo-con think tanks after, even if they have no idea of what TJ was really thinking. Although deeply religious, TJ was not exactly your faith-healing, Jesus-praising evangelical that you might see on TV all bundled up in the American flag while clutching a crucifix.

TJ had a lot of trouble with the Bible. He thought Jesus Christ was a brilliant social philosopher but he didn’t buy miracles, divinity and a lot of other stuff. Nor did he especially like Christmas or Easter.

In fact, in later life, TJ got out a pair of scissors and started cutting up the Bible to eliminate the parts he didn’t buy. Gone were a lot of miracles. Christmas? Gone. And so was Easter. He ended his TJ Bible edition with the rock moved against the tomb on Good Friday. “It never moved again,” says Waldman.”

The end. As Waldman says, “This guy would never be elected today.” Happy Easter!

Peter Galuszka

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28 responses to “Religious “Freedom” in Virginia”

  1. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    The way I was taught, he came out after three days, saw his shadow, and went back for six more weeks of winter.

    RH

  2. James Atticus Bowden Avatar
    James Atticus Bowden

    What about this is new news to you?

    America was created by Protestants with Enlightenment English Protestant ideas. I think 1% of the population was Catholic and 1/10 of 1% was Jewish.

    Sam Huntington, among others, describes the evolution of American identity in his last book, “Who Are We?”

    The ideas born of words like equality, fair play, etc. took time to expand and become more inclusive.

    The English Civil War put Presbyterian vs Anglican vs Puritan. Their gg-grandsons served shoulder to shoulder in our Revolution. The tiny minority of Catholics and Jews paid the blood tax (as did many Blacks) to fight on the right side our first civil war, which we call the American Revolution.

    The fact that the Protestant sects and Germans, French, English, Scots, Scot-Irish, Irish and Scandanvians could all serve in the same Army together was a big deal

    The wars that followed included more immigrants paying the blood tax. Until, the idea of America being a Protestant nation morphed into being a Christian nation.

    Back to Virginia. Quakers and Baptists were persecuted in Anglican Virginia. It was the religious liberty for Baptists and Quakers in Jefferson’s statute that won the promise of religious freedom for all – and non-believers.

    All of the states, except Virginia, had state religions or religious tests. Until one by one the legislatures changed them – which is so appropriate instead of the judges writing laws from the benches. The last state to force taxes to support the official church was Massachusetts – in 1834.

  3. James Atticus Bowden Avatar
    James Atticus Bowden

    PS: You seemed surprised that Roman Catholic Priests would be deported. If you know why the French Hugeonots came to Virginia (including my League ancestors from Amelia County), you might see why they would do such a thing.

  4. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    JAB,
    Re: “America was created by Protestants with Enlightenment English Protestant ideas. I think 1% of the population was Catholic and 1/10 of 1% was Jewish.”

    Exactly what “America” are you referring to? For most of the 13 colonies (save for Maryland) I guess. But what about Florida, the French territories that were bought, not to mention vast tracts of the Southwest including parts of Texas, New Mexico, Arizona and California? These were Spanish and Catholic. Don’t they count in your tally of what is the U.S.? Reminds me reading about a native New Mexican who was treated by newly-arrived residents from the eastern U.S. who were of Anglo-Saxon origin. They treated the New Mexican as if he were the outsider and his family had been there for centuries.
    Meanwhile, you ought to watch that anti-Catholicism. The fact that Catholics did nasty things to Hugeonots in France before they settled in various parts of the new colonies is no reason to have colonial Virginia politicians ban priests.I can give you plenty of examples where Protestants and others did nasty things to variuous other groups. I an find some Catholics with my last name who were killed at Auschwitz. This doesn’t mean that I want to ban any German from entering Virginia.

    Peter Galuszka

  5. James Atticus Bowden Avatar
    James Atticus Bowden

    PG: Yes, I’m talking about 13 British colonies. You know, the ones that became the USA. Those other territories were bought or conquered and assimilated.

    Watch what anti-catholicism? My point, and I regret having to spell it out for a bright persons, is this: After the French Hugeonots come to Virginia to keep from having their heads chopped off by people called “Catholic”, its not surprising that they would ban the entry of priests of the same religion to follow them to Virginia. They may have a concern for their safety, their freedom of religion, their families etc. – after all what has happened since the last massacre to indicate there will never be another one?

    I don’t defend anyone’s religious murders – although I think I understand the OT guidance to the Hebrews when they conquered the land of milk and honey.

    Please don’t go off on some tangent about who killed whom, wave the bloody shirt, etc.

    And don’t engage in Presentism. It makses sense, whether you like it or not, why ratiional men acted as they did when they did.

  6. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    James A Bowden:

    You are right about perspective evolving with the process of civilization. We have come a long way.

    But how do you explain the following from this week on a “respected conservative blog aggregator” that claims to feed this tripe to tens of thousands of blog managers?

    “We are at war. The battlefield is your mind. There is one objective: Gain access to, convert, and control your thinking. Everyday, in the name of diversity and tolerance humanists, anti-religious fanatics, Immoral, psychopathic and God hating change-agents erode and systematically undermine the moral fabric of America. What you are experiencing is the mental/emotional equivalent of H.G. Wells “War of The Worlds.”

    “The methods of attack are clear to anyone that has the courage to open their eyes and see the pervasive neo-leftist/neo-fascist influences that have flooded our collective psyches for the about the past 75 years; the infusion of atheism, including non-theism and agnosticism; the promotion of the theory of evolution — Darwin being their High Priest, "immorality," which include pre, and extramarital sex, the feminist and radical gay agendas, abortion, euthanasia and the right to die; and the introduction of the secular humanism and science as religion —the view that it is possible and in fact more viable to lead an ethical life without belief in God, and finally globalism— an obsession with concern for the “human rights” of all people in the world regardless of their level of social development, cultural morality and ethics.

    Read it all at:
    http://netrightnation.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=644522:the-battle-for-your-mind&catid=1:nrn-blog&Itemid=7

    I suspect Peter G. is just trying to put this sort of trash in perspective.

    The core views expressed in the above are held by perhaps 20 percent of the population the same number that Dr. Risse cites as believing that the earth is flat.

    Making these sentiments a rallying cry for political action – which is the intent of the blog – is in the best interest of ZERO percent of the population.

    With the 80 Percenters

  7. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    JAB,
    I resent your implication that Catholic priests are worthy of banning because some French chopped off heads. Regarding beheading, a few Protestants come to mind as well, starting with the founder of the Church of England.
    This kind of bigotry has no place in BR.

    Peter Galuszka

  8. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    And while I am at it, JAB, I find your comprehension of history curious.
    You seem to be saying that the parts of the U.S. not part of the 13 colonies are somehow lesser entities because they were “bought” or “taken over.” Does this make them histroically and culturally insignificant? Folks from those parts might beg to differ.
    The 13 English colonies were not granted their land by anyone. They topok th eland by force from Native Americans — same damn thing.
    And Virginia, unfortunately, took on the unsavory role as landed gentry aristocracy which was anything but democratic. Ask the Scots-Irish (that’s part of the OTHER side of my family).

    Peter Galuszka

  9. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    “You seem to be saying that
    the parts of the U.S. not part of the 13 colonies are somehow lesser entities because they were “bought” or “taken over.” Does this make them histroically and culturally insignificant? Folks from those parts might beg to differ.”

    Come on Peter, get a grip.

    James A Bowden is saying no such thing. He is saying that in 1775 folks did what fit that timeframe, in 1861 they did what fit that time frame.

    This is 2009 and the problem is that too many are still trying to force others to do and believe what was accepted pratice in 1775 or 1861.

    That is “With the 80 Percenters” is saying.

    OK no Bowden, tell us why it is acceptable to say what is quoted this week from a political web site.

    Al Q. is using our web hosting to say bad things about the US of A but that is just as repulsive to almost as many.

    If you are going to attack “presentism” you have to attack repulsive “pastism.”

  10. James Atticus Bowden Avatar
    James Atticus Bowden

    PG: Geeze louise. Bigotry – my fourth point of contact.

    I wasn’t writing the laws that banned RC priests.

    I’m not implicating diddley-squat. Throwing down the bigotry accusation is a red herring

    It’s also in the Liberal playbook of accuse falsely and keep accusing falsely and beat the drum of utterly empty memes about racisim, sexisem, homophobia, cleassism etc until some one believes it. Like the macaca moment.

    Try this. After Oliver Cromwell killed 1/3 of the people in Ireland (Catholics and Protestants), imagine the Irish had their own General Assembly, do you think they may have had some prohibition about Puritan preachers immigrating to Ireland? Would that be bigotry? If it happened over 300 years ago, should we really be morally outraged today?

    Presentism is such pretense.

    As to your other point, the pre-American history of other parts of the U.S. is fascinating to read and utterly irrelevant to the whole fabric of the Nation with one exception.

    The state law in Louisiana has elements of the Code Napoleon in it, as opposed English Common law.

    The thousand Mexicans in California have a history worth reading, but when hundreds of thousands of Americans came in after conquest with the gold rush, the Mexican influence remained in name places only.

    The Mexican influence now with the flood of legal and illegal immigrants is a different story.

    Seriously, have you ever read a history book?

    You didn’t know that America was conquered in Indian Wars (1608-1890)? And other conflicts and purchases?

    Do you know the history of your Scots-Irish ancestors?

  11. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    JAB,
    Ok, Ok, the bigotry thing was over the top. I apologize.
    But yes I have read history books and know enought or realize that the ones written in English happen to have a certain pro-British bias (unless, of ocurse, they were written by the Irish). But that’s another argument. (Ever notice how the Spanish are always the bad guys in pirate movies of the 1930s or 1940s and the Brits are always the good guys?)
    As far as priests go, I am especially sensitive because my late uncle was one and worked for decades in one of the worst neighborhoods in New York (no family connection to the city, just where he ended up) without complaint. He had ample opportunity to go a richer parish but never did. He did his best to help with various urban renewal projects including one known as the “Nehemiah” project to provide affordable homeownership in the ghetto. Whenever these projects went up, crime rates dropped. As he put it, “We use Episcopal money and Catholic management to build homes for black Baptists.” When it came to religious beliefs, the man didn’t just talk the talk, he walked the walk, so to speak. Plus I knew plenty of Jesuits in high school and had high regard for most.
    Yes, I know my Scots-Irish history — came from Scotland, then Belfast and became shipbuilders in the states in the 1800s. The German side arrived in the 1700s. They were Protestants.
    The Austrian-Poles came in the 1800s. They were Catholics. My grandfather was a businessman who traded in Europe and the states. He had three boys. The aforementioned priest, my other late uncle who became a doctor and fought with Patton as an Army doctor from France to Czechoslovakia, and my late father who was a Marine officer, went to med school and then became a Navy doctor with a Marine amphibious tank unit on Saipan, Tinian and Iwo Jima (probably one of the first doctors onshore in each campaign). He stayed in the Navy for a career, retiring just short of flag rank.
    I’d say they all pass the “American” test.

    Peter Galuszka

  12. James Atticus Bowden Avatar
    James Atticus Bowden

    Thanks PG.

    If you had read my novel, Rosetta 6.2, you would see the favorable portrayal of a Jesuit brother. Enjoyed doing the research on Ignatius, etc. for it.

    I call it the Blood Tax. Every generation of immigrants pays it. It's a gruesome, almost cynical concept, but real. After you or anyone in your extended family have served and fought for the stars and stripes, the flag kinda becomes yours.

    Finally, Hollywood's hierarchy of evil has changed from the 1920s forward. I like to talk about how Nazi (are worse) > than Southerners > English. Etc. Also the pairing matters. The evil side in one movie can be the good side if paired with a greater evil meme.

  13. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    Mr. Bowden:

    You have still not addressed the quote provided by Anon 10:35.

    This is 2009 and that language is just as bad as the worst of 1655, 1774, 1862 or 1938.

    Where do you stand on current hate speech and intollerance in the name of political action?

  14. James Atticus Bowden Avatar
    James Atticus Bowden

    Anon: Please refresh my memory. What hate speech and intolerance from the Left is your concern?

  15. Groveton Avatar
    Groveton

    Thanks to Messrs. Washington and Jefferson for creating a commonwealth where I can post this:

    We believe in one God,
    the Father, the Almighty,
    maker of heaven and earth,
    of all that is seen and unseen.

    We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
    the only Son of God,
    eternally begotten of the Father,
    God from God, Light from Light,
    true God from true God,
    begotten, not made, one in Being with the Father.
    Through him all things were made.
    For us men and for our salvation
    he came down from heaven:
    by the power of the Holy Spirit
    he was born of the Virgin Mary, and became man.

    For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate,
    he suffered, died, and was buried.
    On the third day he rose again
    in fulfillment of the Scriptures;
    he ascended into heaven
    and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
    He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead,
    and his kingdom will have no end.

    We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
    who proceeds from the Father and the Son.
    With the Father and the Son he is worshiped and glorified.
    He has spoken through the Prophets.
    We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.
    We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
    We look for the resurrection of the dead
    and the life of the world to come. Amen.

    Happy Easter.

  16. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    Faith is a wonderful thing. Too bad religion causes such rancor.

    RH

  17. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    Mr. Bowden:

    Nice try but no prize for cleverness.

    It is hate speech from the RIGHT and it is two paragraphs posted by by Anon 10:55 on 4/11/09 above.

    Please provide full and complete assessment.

  18. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    James Atticus:

    Yes, please there are a number of us waiting to hear your response.

    You like to defend acient hate speech by citing “Presentism.”

    This is current speech that is more repulsive in the contemprary context than anything we have seen from past contexts.

    Concerned in Tide Water

  19. James Atticus Bowden Avatar
    James Atticus Bowden

    Dear Anon x2: I reject the idea of hate speech as I do hate crimes.

    There is hateful speech. It is allowed as our right of free speech along with ignorant speech, stupid speech, insipid speech, poltronish speech, etc. – you might get my drift. One usually finds it spoken by Liberals, Leftists, Human Secularists, Socialists, etc. – but not exclusively.

    Libel and slander are speech punishable under the law.

    I miss the part of the quote where the author said,”I hate you” to someone.

    How about explaining for us in the slow reading group where the hate speech is. You might indicate the noun, verb and subject to make it clear.

    If you think the 2 paragraphs are more repulsive than past speech, you really need to read more history – and you need to read what comes from the Left.

  20. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    James Atticus:

    Hateful speech vs. hate speech.

    Nice try. What is the definiton of “it?”

    Voters in this region will remember that when you run again…

    “There is hateful speech. It is allowed as our right of free speech along with ignorant speech, stupid speech, insipid speech, poltronish speech, etc. – you might get my drift. One usually finds it spoken by Liberals, Leftists, Human Secularists, Socialists, etc. – but not exclusively.”

    Since you are so well read, how about quoting some passages of equal lenght and hatefullness from the “Liberals, Human Secularists, etc..”

    Be sure it is not just a Blog post but something that is published and distributed by an organization that is attempting to establish a political base under the big tent of liberalism, progressiveism or antipartisanism.

    Concerned in Tide Water

  21. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    “liberalism, progressiveism or antipartisanism.”

    As a nice ring as a counterpoint to “conservative, regressive and partisan”

    Oops, that is partisan.

  22. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    Funny how the anitliberal, antiprogressive, partisan types can find elephants among the flyspects re guns and hateful speech but cannot seem to understand separation of church and state.

  23. James Atticus Bowden Avatar
    James Atticus Bowden

    Sorry if I might disappoint all you anon ladies, but BR doesn’t wallow in the middle school invective and tit for tat.

    Especially, sorry for Concerned in Tidewater, if we move onto another policy issue, instead of personal politics.

    Rest assured, Concerned Anon,if I do run again, I won’t run in a majority bed-wettin, crybaby district. So, I’ll look forward to whatever slings and arrows about hate speech or whatever you can throw to help solidify the base. I’d appreciate it if you’d really get out early in any campaign so I can present your attack material with the mature majority in Tidewater.

    Thanks, so much Ladies, one and all.

  24. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    wow. sure, personal slings & arrows are to be avoided here. but JAB's post is kinda… disappointing. come on, JAB, you sound peeved and that's not your best side. and your machismo poses about the ladies and the 'crybaby district' et al undercuts your arguments everywhere. it suggests you really just plain detest the political/social left, and that you'll craft any strategy to beat them. or just taunt them. people like that are a dime a zillion.

  25. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    Sounds like Mr. Bowden endorces and / or is unwilling to criticize the author of the following copied from above:

    “We are at war. The battlefield is your mind. There is one objective: Gain access to, convert, and control your thinking. Everyday, in the name of diversity and tolerance humanists, anti-religious fanatics, Immoral, psychopathic and God hating change-agents erode and systematically undermine the moral fabric of America. What you are experiencing is the mental/emotional equivalent of H.G. Wells “War of The Worlds.”

    “The methods of attack are clear to anyone that has the courage to open their eyes and see the pervasive neo-leftist/neo-fascist influences that have flooded our collective psyches for the about the past 75 years; the infusion of atheism, including non-theism and agnosticism; the promotion of the theory of evolution — Darwin being their High Priest, "immorality," which include pre, and extramarital sex, the feminist and radical gay agendas, abortion, euthanasia and the right to die; and the introduction of the secular humanism and science as religion —the view that it is possible and in fact more viable to lead an ethical life without belief in God, and finally globalism— an obsession with concern for the “human rights” of all people in the world regardless of their level of social development, cultural morality and ethics.

    Read it all at:
    http://netrightnation.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=644522:the-battle-for-your-mind&catid=1:nrn-blog&Itemid=7

    Further Bowden could not find a hateful / hate statement comparable to this from the "left."

    Some time ago one of the regulars on this site suggested Bowden could not get 10 percent of the citizens to agree with him if they really understood what it would mean to them and their family if his ideas were implemented.

    Now we see him cutting and filling, jumping and jiving with all sorts of high minded "Presentism" and other intelectual-sounding smoke to cover his real intent.

    Time to come clean Mr. Bowden.

    In this great country you are free to say what you want but do not try to convince us that many agree with your views.

    In fact with deminishing resources and undereducated citizens is is critical that ALL well-to-do and ALL well-educated move to a concensus on a sustainable path.

    Seems to me that is what Dr. Risse has been saying for a long time.

    Also Concerned in Lynchburg

  26. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    Lynchburg, I checked out your link and the essay by this guy, David Ruben. It’s hysterical. He is a radio talk-show host. What a surprise, huh.

    But don’t toss his words in JAB’s lap just because you want to make him play defense. That’s a common gimmick in what passes for debate out here on the Interwebnets, but it’s still not fair.

  27. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    All Bowden has to do is say he rejects this sort of hateful / hate tripe.

    Also this appeared on NetRightNation, a well funded and well connected like in an attempt to convince citizens that they represent “responsible conservative” opion.

    They and related efforts feed this material to tens of thousands of bloggers naiton-wide.

    Bowden needs to take a stand against these misleaders or be pinted with their brush because it sounds a lot like some of his views.

  28. MID Avatar
    MID

    Peter,
    I read the book. It is amazing and a must read.
    If you are in Richmond, next week’s lecture, co-sponsored by the First Freedom Center and World Affairs Council of Greater Richmond will feature Dr. Charles Haynes, Senior Scholar, First Freedom Forum’s First Amendment Center
    He will be addressing: “Living with our Deepest Differences – Freedom of Expression in a Religiously Diverse World.”

    Event details include:
    · Date: Thursday, April 23
    · Time: 5:30 p.m.
    · Place: Omni Richmond Hotel, 100 South 12th Street (corner of 12th and E. Cary Streets); go to mezzanine floor; registration table will be in full view
    · RSVP: World Affairs Council, 643-0083 or register online at http://www.richmondworldaffairs.org

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