Proffers and Housing Prices: What’s the Connection?

An interesting debate has arisen over the Watkins bill to cap proffers and impact fees: To what extent do proffers and fees contribute to higher housing prices? Sandhya Someshekhar and Anita Kumar in the Washington Post report that Home Builders Association of Virginia officials said the bill “would stabilize the market and slow the double-digit percentage increases in housing values. Opponents argue that rising housing values have little or nothing to do with proffers.”

The article does not specify which individuals are making these claims, but it strikes me that both sides are blowing smoke. You can make theoretical arguments for both positions, but no one is presenting any data. Everyone, it appears, is making unsubstantiated claims.

I don’t have any hard facts that would shed any light, but perhaps I can provide some conceptual clarity. Let us start with a point so obvious that it requires no supporting data. If a developer negotiates a $30,000-per-dwelling proffer with Prince William County, to pick an example, he will incorporate that expense into the selling price of the house. Only an utter fool would commence building a house knowing that he will sell it for less than what it cost to build and pay off a $30,000 proffer. No, not even a fool could get away with such a thing — his banker would stop him.

Admittedly, it’s possible that the builder will miscalculate. The supply and demand equation can shift, as has happened in the aftermath of the sub-prime mortgage debacle, and the builder can wind up selling speculatively built houses at a loss under distress conditions. But no builder will start construction of a new house knowing up front that he will lose money! Thus, insofar as cost establishes a base price at which houses will sell under normal conditions, proffers and impact fees undeniably contribute to higher selling prices. For foes of the legislation to assert that “rising housing prices have little or nothing to do with proffers” is simply ludicrous.

But that doesn’t make the home builders entirely right: The price of housing is set by the interplay of supply and demand. In Northern Virginia, where debate is the most intense, the problem over the past decade has been twofold: (1) insufficient supply of new housing in locations where the demand is greatest, and (2) speculation and easy credit driven by the mortgage bubble. Local government policies continue to restrict the development of housing supply in locations where demand is the strongest (closer to the urban core), but a decisive change has occurred in real estate markets in the past year: The mortgage bubble has popped, speculation has subsided and real estate prices are falling.

Thus, the home builder argument that the legislation would stabilize the market and “slow the double-digit increases in housing prices” is specious. Housing prices have already backed off from double-digit increases! Proffer/impact fees are only one factor among several that influence prices. I don’t know of a single economist who believes that housing prices will resume their double-digit climb. Many believe that housing prices, after settling into a new equilbrium, will track the slow but steady growth in consumer buying power.

The real issue, in my appraisal, is the mismatch in supply and demand in regional sub-markets. Demand for housing is greatest in or near the urban core, but it is exceedingly difficult to increase the supply there. Too many people raise too many objections, and the cost of getting land rezoned for redevelopment can be prohibitively expensive. It is simply easier for developers to move to the metropolitan periphery and build on open fields — where expensive infrastructure must be built from scratch. Now, even counties on the metropolitan fringe are erecting barriers to growth. Long term, the restriction of housing supply in growing metro areas will exert a upward effect on housing costs. Trouble is, nobody is talking about that problem.

Breaking the logjam requires two things: (1) Finding a formula for requiring new development to “pay its own way,” and (2) Relaxing local government policies that inhibit new development in more balanced, more cost-efficient human settlement patterns. Otherwise, we’ll be arguing until the cows come home…. And, given the rapid disappearance of farmland in Northern Virginia, the cows may never come home.


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  1. Anonymous Avatar

    Economists tell us, (and this seems to be pretty well established with actual data) that about half the cost of proffer goes into the price of the new house, and and about half the price comes from lower prices offered for the land.

    If the developer can’t get the land at that price, he doesn’t build (there) and that is what causes values to go up. Proffers therefore contribute to an insufficient supply.

    This is why economists also tell us that a $1 increase in proffers causes the cost of new AND EXISTING homes to increase in price by $1.60.

    An additional factor is increases in the cost of building supplies. And increased fees and delays for all the other related building costs controlled by the county. The issue ins’t only proffers, it also includes issues of transparency and predictability.

    It is not only counties on the urban fringe that are restricting growth: the vast majority of jurisdictions throughout the U.S. have some form of growth restriction. Long term, the restriction of housing supply in growing metro areas will exert a upward effect on housing costs, and that is much of the impetus behind the laws: people love to see their home appreciate, at no cost to themselves.

    As it stands now, there is no price associated with simply saying “No.” like any other facility, if the price is too low, it will be over-used.

    Breaking the logjam requires two things: (1) Finding a formula for requiring new development to “pay its own way,” (2) figuring how much existing infrastructure has been underfunded for the last thirty years, and (3) Relaxing local government policies that inhibit new development. Period. “Balanced” or not.

    Governments depend on that “bow wave” of new assessments to keep their revenues rising. When they discover that other areas are getting more of it, they will respond.

    Unless we are willing to put the same kind of restrictions on new businesses that we put on new housing (which is highly unlikely) we don’t have any way to control “balance”.

    Businesses will continue to agglomerate, and they will continue to require heroic transportation measures to fill their jobs. And we will continue to blame those that “choose” to live in scattered sites, when they are only one half of the problem.

    Eventually, when the costs get too high, businesses will relocate where the workers are.

    There is some demand for housing near the urban core, but more than half the population lives in the suburbs. Focusing on only one part of the demand will lead us to false policy.

    We may as well concede that balance is a dynamic condition: we can work toward it but it is a moving and unstable target. Get used to it, and plan accordingly. Part of the plan should be consideration of the fact the refurbishing old infrastructure is just as expensive as building new, maybe more.

    As for farmland disappearing, when enough of it disappears the ones that remain might actually be able to make some money. Otherwise, if saving open space is the issue, then we need to make it as valuable in fact as we claim it is. Profit is the one thing farms need most. With profit, they won’t need “protection”.

    If saving farmland and preventing growth increases the value of existing homes, then we need some way of transferring some of that wealth to those that make it possible, through being denied their own opportunities. We can’t claim that preventing growth “saves money” unless we considerthe opportunity costs which are lost.

    As I see it, the logjam is a result of everybody feeling victimized – claiming undue and unjust costs for “externalities” that only “others” contribute to. While there is “some” justification for this, it has gotten out of control. Just as you claim the major demand for housing is near the urban core,we view externalities through a one way lens.

    My favorite example is the claim that drivers don’t pay for the externality of congestion they cause others. Since the congestion caused is mutual, its an even exchange and there is no “unpaid” externality. Which is not to say that there are not actual costs that accrue to the group as a whole, jsut that the costs are egalitarion. In contrast, HOT lanes are not, at least as so far described.

    Unless the winners in a new policy can pay off the losers, and still come out ahead, it is bad policy, whether the policy involves HOT lanes, or land use.

  2. Larry Gross Avatar
    Larry Gross

    Can we have a cite for your claim?

  3. Anonymous Avatar

    Which one? the one about economists and proffers?

  4. Larry Gross Avatar
    Larry Gross

    Economists tell us, (and this seems to be pretty well established with actual data) that about half the cost of proffer goes into the price of the new house, and and about

    *** half the price comes from lower prices offered for the land.

    If the developer can’t get the land at that price, he doesn’t build (there) and that is what causes values to go up. Proffers therefore contribute to an insufficient supply.

    This is why economists also tell us that

    *** a $1 increase in proffers causes the cost of new AND EXISTING homes to increase in price by $1.60.

  5. Anonymous Avatar

    I think the first three apply directly to your question.

    RH

    Abstract
    This paper presents the results from estimating the effects of development impact fees on the prices of new and existing single-family homes and undeveloped residential land using unique data for Dade County, FL. The results show that an additional US$1.00 of fees increases the price of both new and existing housing by about US$1.60 and reduces the price of land by about US$1.00. These findings are shown to be consistent with the new view but not the old view theory of impact fee incidence.

    http://jpl.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/17/3/351

    ———————–

    Current discussion focuses primarily on who bears the burden of the fees. This paper shows that impact fees have interesting implications for a broader set of important issues. The fees provide communities with added flexibility in pricing entry into their jurisdictions, allowing existing residents to transfer to themselves the surplus associated with new development.

    http://jpl.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/17/3/351

    —————————

    A 1999 study found that DIFs significantly increased sale prices for new and existing homes in eight Du Page County, Illinois suburbs. These findings seem to confirm theoretical speculation that DIFs can indirectly drive up the sales price of existing homes if more buyers see them as comparable substitutes for new homes.

    http://www.cga.ct.gov/2002/olrdata/pd/rpt/2002-R-0903.htm

    ————————

    Since the 1970s, development impact fees have emerged as a way to pass the cost of new infrastructure to the development community. Although development impact fees intend to transfer the burden of infrastructure provision to the developer, it is widely believed that the homebuyer ultimately absorbs the cost through inflated housing and land prices. This article examines the planning practice implications of development impact fees on housing and land prices. The review of the literature suggests that impact fees contribute to housing price infation in communities where there are no reasonable housing substitutes and that tax burden and infrastructure enhancements are capitalized into the price of home and land.

    http://jpl.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/17/3/351

    —————————–

    Impact fees have complex effects on housing prices. One particularly thorough study of the effect of impact fees on housing prices found that fees reduced land prices by the amount of fees paid but also raised finished house prices by about half again the fee amount. One interpretation is that while impact fees lower raw land prices as predicted by conventional economic theory, the amount of the fee reflecting infrastructure value is recovered in the sales price. Additionally, the increment above the fee represents the value of the infrastructure as a whole and/or the certainty perceived by the market that facilities will be provided at a desired level and quality of service (i.e. no congestion) regardless of growth pressures.

    http://www.brookings.edu/reports/2003/06metropolitanpolicy_nelson.aspx

    —————————

    As the analysis shows, developers are more likely to absorb the fees and not pass them along to homebuyers in suburbs surrounding larger central cities. Here, developers are more likely to compete against each other and sellers of existing comparable homes. Since the fees cut into their profit margins, developers may concentrate on building higher priced homes, reduce home quality and size, or build only in those towns that impose no fees. Consequently, the supply of affordable housing could shrink, homebuyers could pay more for less housing, and residential development could accelerate in other towns.

    http://www.cga.ct.gov/2002/olrdata/pd/rpt/2002-R-0903.htm

    —————————-

    And here are some good examples of governmental ignorance-of-economics-is-bliss:
    City staff has estimated a 72 percent raise will bring in about $2.7 million a year for roads and parks. But that number assumes that the level of home-building stays the same after the fee hike, and it does not count the city’s plans to split the increase over two years.

    Hmm, impact fees have no effect on development?

    Gotta … Google it:
    … impact fees reduce rates of residential development by more than 25 percent.
    Source: Skidmore and Peddle, Growth and Change, 1998.

    ———————-

    The perverse result of an increase in housing prices above and beyond the impact fee amount is due to property tax savings.
    According to the research, new home prices might rise by $1170 to $1872. For a $100,000 house, this is less than a 2% increase. That might bite. And, there will be fewer $100,000 houses since developers will prefer to build houses where the fixed impact fee will be a smaller portion of the price.
    http://www.env-econ.net/2006/04/impact_fee_econ.html

    ———————–

    “And many folk want to be annexed into an area so they can get infrastructure more cheaply, as those costs are spread out to many taxpayers rather than full freight on one person (in my view, a tiny-impact type of freeloading).
    I’m sure that the majority of folk around here are not other-regarding (as they are red voters), so I wonder how often they calculate the savings others will enjoy when they grudgingly pay the impact fees for developing their parcel(s).

    But, at the same time, the majority of folk around here call for developers to pay for the cost of their development so as to not overburden the existing residents – e.g., have the developer pave the arterial that is impacted by new growth, have the developer put in a new park so the existing kids have somewhere to play…a tiny-impact type of freeloading.”

    http://www.env-econ.net/2006/04/impact_fee_econ.html

    ————————

    The purpose of this paper is to investigate special fee assessments (a popular sub-set of “innovative” financing techniques) used for financing highway and mass transportation in order to determine their efficiency and equity implications. The need for such an investigation arises from the fact that everyone residing or doing business in a particular area does not benefit equally from a given transportation system, and neither is everyone able to contribute equally toward that system’s building and operation. This paper presents some of the most commonly used special fee assessment techniques and suggests fee structures that are “optimal” on the basis of the benefits that contributors derive from the given transportation system, as well as their ability to pay for it.

    http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6X3B-4665PFY-2N&_user=10&_origUdi=B6V89-4CDS44J-2&_fmt=high&_coverDate=07%2F31%2F1990&_rdoc=1&_orig=article&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=8a061fb57678dec727125aad097b5ab7

    The City Council could vote as early as May on a plan to double the impact fees Raleigh imposes on new housing…. The proposal put forward Tuesday would increase the open space and transportation fees leveled on an average single-family home from $1,200 to about $2,500. Fees would be tiered, meaning larger homes would incur higher fees.
    You can expect housing prices to rise by between $1920 and $4000 and land prices to fall by between $1200 and $2500.

    http://www.env-econ.net/2008/01/announcing-high.html

  6. Anonymous Avatar

    http://www.ag-econ.ncsu.edu/faculty/walden/primer_residential_fees.pdf

    (1)
    There is debate over the empirical evidence addressing the justification for impact fees. Studies that narrowly measure local tax revenues only from the new residential development generally find that impact fees are justified, whereas studies that take a wider view and include associated commercial and other development come to the opposite conclusion.
    (2)
    A very consistent finding in the studies of impact fees is that new home prices will increase as a result of imposition of the fees. Some studies find that existing home prices also increase when impact fees are adopted. Thus, the use of impact fees raises questions about housing affordability, especially for first-time homebuyers, and economic effects from a possible slowdown in residential construction.
    (3)
    If impact fees are used, there are practical questions about how they should be implemented. Should they vary with size of the household, number of children, and number of vehicles? Also, should they be applied when a household in an existing home adds children or vehicles?
    (4)
    There are philosophical differences between the traditional way local public services have been funded and impact fees. Traditional local public financing assumes all taxpayers benefit from local public services, even if they don’t directly use them. Impact fees are based on the idea that direct beneficiaries of a public service should pay for those services.”

  7. Larry Gross Avatar
    Larry Gross

    *** half the price comes from lower prices offered for the land.

    *** a $1 increase in proffers causes the cost of new AND EXISTING homes to increase in price by $1.60.

    not a cite (or a blizzard of cites) for the unproven assertions..

    a cite that shows how they arrived at the assertion…. how they supported the claim…

    How did they prove the numbers?

    Just reference the page number of the study that went through the calculations.. would be fine.

    thanks.

  8. Larry Gross Avatar
    Larry Gross

    you know …

    “impact fees are passed on to buyers”

    “impact fees increase the price of housing”

    don’t need to a study. They’re pretty much self-evident.

    I mean this sounds like some folks would want a study to “prove” that water/sewer hookup fees increase the cost of a house and are passed on to the buyers. DOH!

    and impact fees reduce residential growth?

    how can that be.?? where would all these folks go to that need places to live?

    Isn’t it more likely that they’d have to look at cheaper homes… i.e. an 1500 sq foot “starter” home rather than the 2400 sq ft “house of dreams”?

    the only way.. you’d reduce residential growth is if it went somewhere else instead…

    If 100,000 people move into the NoVa area.. they don’t form a tent-city… and they don’t live under bridges because of impact fees guy…

    they pick a townhouse instead of a 3 bedroom single family … etc…

    but let’s see the cites/facts that support the assertions…

    thanks.

  9. Anonymous Avatar

    The cites explain that impact fees reduce growth WHERE THEY ARE APPLIED. The studies show that they tend to move to other areas or more rural areas where the fees are less. More scatteration, as EMR would say.

    Impact fees increase the price of all housing, including housing belonging to those that impose but do not pay the fees.

    The costs and the benefits are not fairly dispersed, unless this is taken into consideration when thelevel of the fees are set. What appears to be an impact fee which is too low may actually distribute the costs and benefits fairly.

    Buyers don’t get to pick a town house or smaller home because the builders will use bigger homes where it is easier to absorb the price of the fee.

    “$1 increase in proffers causes the cost of new AND EXISTING homes to increase in price by $1.60.”

    You just don’t want to believe this, and probably won’t no matter how well documented. this particular reference is well documented and cited by other authors as well, including Brookings. The cite given tells you where you can buy the document. You may be able to request it from your library.

    About half the impact fees are passed on to buyers, and half is passed on to the land sellers in the form of lower prices offered – The land sellers are existing residents – neighbors of those people who imposed the fees, to protect the existing residents.

    The cite from
    http://www.ag-econ.ncsu.edu
    is a survey paper which references many documents and provides the summary shown.

    The cite from

    http://www.cga.ct.gov/2002/olrdata/pd/rpt/2002-R-0903.htm

    provides actuall data collected from a number of communities in and around seveal major cities.

    If you don’t want to concede that proffers and impact fees are a cleverly marketed (demonize the developer)and self serving way to avoid your share of taxes for services that benefit everyone, while taxing the other guy more, and unfarily, then you don’t have to.

    After all, you have the votes on your side, and that justifies creating wrong headed policies that do not protect the minority.

    The realities on the ground are clear, so we’ll just ignore dismiss, and deny what are pretty well accepted and documented facts, provided by people and experts with no dog in the fight.

    RH

  10. Anonymous Avatar

    The arguments that the imposition of impact fees/proffers alone drives up the price of housing and/or the removal of impact fees/proffers alone reduces the price of housing are simply specious. A producer’s costs, including taxes, are certainly relevant to the price for a good or service. But having higher costs does not guarantee that a producer can recover those costs in prices.

    Ford, GM and Chrysler all have relatively high costs for producing motor vehicles because of labor contracts, legacy and ongoing health care costs, pension costs, etc. If the real estate industry’s logic were correct, the U.S. auto manufacturers would simply be able to pass along those costs to auto purchasers. Likewise, how could GM have incurred such a huge loss 9$722 M – 4Q 07) from its operations?

    If the housing market is immune from market factors, why are so many builders offering big incentives? Why have owners of existing housing lowered their prices? Why are local governments worried about lower real estate values?

    Probably the biggest reason that the no-cash-proffer bill is being pushed now is that the real estate industry knows darn well that they simply cannot pass along the full economic cost of a proffer or a cost-based impact fee. What a crock!

    TMT

  11. Larry Gross Avatar
    Larry Gross

    Why would you believe an abstract without reading the study that supports it?

    Why would you provide the abstract without the evidence as “proof”?

    see .. this is what you are doing:

    Effect of Fees:

    * – Who actually pays the impact fee (incidence)?

    In the short-term, impact fees may cause a slight increase in housing costs if the local real estate market allows the builder to shift the cost forward to the buyer. However, in the long-term it is more than likely that the cost will be shifted backwards to landowners in the form of lower prices that may be bid for undeveloped land.

    * – Do impact fees negatively affect local move-up homebuyers?

    No, if the price of new housing actually rises because of impact fees, then the value of existing housing will follow suit because it is an integral part of the local real estate market. Current move-up homebuyers who move up will be able to use their “windfall profits” to pay for the increased costs of the new home. As they say, “a rising tide lifts all boats”.

    * – How do impact fees benefit existing, as well as new residents?

    Adoption of impact fees reduces pressure on local residents to raise taxes and fees. And with new development paying for its own capacity-enhancing infrastructure needs, any current funds that have been designated to pay for those projects can be shifted to the more immediate needs of existing residents, such as for facility maintenance and rehabilitation.

    * – Are impact fees a no-growth tool?

    No. Just the opposite is true. Impact fees facilitate growth by expediting development approvals, increasing the amount of developable lands, and reducing citizen opposition to new growth.

    http://www.impactfees.com/faq/fees-effect.php#

    where is the evidence to support the conclusions?

    the cite you gave
    http://www.cga.ct.gov/2002/olrdata/pd/rpt/2002-R-0903.htm

    actually states the opposite of what you’re claiming…

    “Most studies show that DIFs generally increase housing construction costs, but they are cautious about attributing other outcomes to this fact.

    In doing so, towns shift the cost from the current taxpayers to the developer, who initially pays the fee but may subsequently add it to sales price.

    Researchers have studied how the shift directly affects landowners, developers, and homebuyers and how it indirectly affects existing residential values, affordable housing stock, and demographic profiles. But their findings are

    often tentative because they

    cannot adequately isolate and assess the way other unrelated factors influence the way developers behave. This is true for both theoretical and empirical studies.”

    again.. it does not take a rocket scientist to understand that adding proffers increases the price of the house and much of that increase WILL be passed on.

    The discussion is what are the demonstrated EFFECTS of impact fees?

    You’ve rained down a ton of wide-ranging verbiage and have not provided the specific evidence to back up the $1.60 number….

    and yet you use that number .. you actually claim that that number is a well documented and accepted fact.

    In my view, that is not a very honest way to back up what you’re claiming and it causes me great doubt on much of what you claim.. and that is why I ask you to provide cites … rather than make the claim.. and use no cite

    then when asked to provide the actual cite – you don’t.

    straighten up fella….

    do yourself proud and walk-the-walk..

  12. Anonymous Avatar

    Maybe. But how can you say it is a crck when it is measured with actual data from many communities in several cities?

    The argument that the imposition of impact fees drives up the price of new and existing housing, and drives down the price of land is well establised and well researched.

    You can still choose to disbelieve.

    On the other hand, so far as I know, the idea that removing impact fees will lower prices has not been proven. It is wll known that home priced tend to be “sticky” so it is possible that having imposed impact fees you hae set up a kind if onw way door that it is not so easy to back out of.

    Ford and GM have a lot more competiton than your average neighborhood government. But you raise a good point. If you like I can give another blizzard of cites that talk about the monopoly power of government and how it is misused.

    Having higher costs does not guarantee he can recover those costs in prices. But builders ae adept at working in a risky environment, and they know the market. If they cannot recover their costs, then they won’t build the house, or they will build it someplace else. It is exactly the point Jim Bacon makes: the rules cause scatteration.

    No one says the housing market is immune to OTHER factors. All we are discussing is what are the known and demonstrated effects of this particular factor.

    But, if you are right and they cannot pass on the costs, then they won’t build or won’t build as much. The argument about affordable housing will become a self fulfilling prophesy. Meanwhile, some communities will see as much as 25% of their workforce unemployed or underemployed.

    Prices will rise until the builders can pass on the costs.

    “..many folk want to be annexed …so they can get infrastructure more cheaply, as those costs are spread out to many taxpayers rather than full freight on one person (in my view, a tiny-impact type of freeloading.

    I wonder how often they calculate the savings others will enjoy when they grudgingly pay the impact fees for developing their parcel(s).

    at the same time, folk
    call for developers to pay for the cost of their development so as to not overburden the existing residents – e.g., have the developer put in a new park so the existing kids have somewhere to play…a tiny-impact type of freeloading.”

    I don’t see why it is so hard to admit that BOTH sides on this issue are attempting to freeload. It is time to step back, forget all that claptrap and preconceived notions, demonizations, etc. and go back to the drawing board to come up with a plan that ALL can agree to and ALL can benefit from.

    But we won’t do it because of what EMR calls the winner take all ideology. We will argue this to death rather than try to move ahead mutually.

    RH

  13. There are two reasons why absurdly low impact fees are being proposed now (at least in NoVA):

    1. The developers have finally lost the political war in the Board of Supervisors. The November election saw the voters dismiss a number of politicians who had been living in the pockets of developers for years. The new BoS’ won’t just look the other way at freebie rezonings. The developers’ free ride is over. So, they run to Richmond hoping to reinstate the (nearly) free ride they had been enjoying compliments of the local BoS.

    2. The housing bubble has burst and developers want to preserve their profits by passing more costs on through increases in property taxes.

    This debate has spurred some odd commentary on BR. To wit:

    Real estate prices are set by some static “cost plus” calculation on the part of developers. Absurd. Real estate prices, like all prices, are a complex indicator of relative scarcity. Supply and demand are the main determinants although there are other factors that come into play. The demand has been severely reduced by both a reduction in available credit and a realization that real estate may (for the mid term) be a rather poor investment vehicle. This slackening demand results in rapidly falling prices and an increase in inventory as represented by homes “on the market”. Sellers, seeing the reduced demand, either reduce their prices or refuse to sell their product at this time (they take their home off the market).

    Developers only make money when they add housing stock (i.e. build homes). This is unlike real estate agents (who can make money by selling existing inventory to new owners). Developers do not have the luxury of sitting idly by producing “cost plus” calculations that convince them not to build. They either build, go bankrupt or find a new line of work. In most markets, the suppliers’ answer to slowing demand would be to reduce profit margins in order to remain in operation over the short and mid runs. This is why corporate profits sink in a slowdown / recession. To the extent that the builders believe times will get better they will build at depressed margins covering their variable costs. To they extent that builders stop believing that times will get better, they will deploy their capital and credit to endeavors with higher long term returns (i.e. they will find a new line of work).

    However, unlike honest businessmen, builders have the option of preserving their profit margins through overt manipulation of the political process and the politicians. This is what they are doing with their efforts to get a state wide $8,000 per home impact fee passed. Counties such as Loudoun have been charging builders close to the full cost of their one-time location-variable costs (somewhere between $30,000 and $35,000) for some time now. In an overheated housing market, strong demand relative to supply created prices that provided windfall profits with little relationship to underlying costs. However, in a slow market, builders will be unable to pay these proffers and preserve their historical profits. If they continue to pay full cost proffers they will see a decline in profits. So, they hatch a scheme to pass the proffers on to property tax payers in general through the impact fee cap of $8,000. This will have the effect of lowering their costs without affecting prices charged to buyers. The cost of new infrastructure will be passed from the builders (in the form of high proffers) to the taxpayers (in the form of tax shortfalls caused by increasing costs of new infrastructure – now not paid by developers). We, the property tax payers, are being asked to bolster the builders’ profits by relieving them of a legitimate incrimental cost of adding new housing stock to the market. If they cannot execute this piece of political manipulation they will either have to stop building or lower their profits.

    Ray Hyde is wrong about the $1.60 for every $1.00 of proffers. This is a static ratio that can exist only in the minds of theoretical economists. In reality, the builders will not be able to pass on all the costs of impact fees and/or proffers in this market. They will have to absorb at least some of these costs (through lower profits) when they price their housing in a market that suffers from low demand and high supply. Or, they will have to slow down / stop building.

    As far as I am concerned, a serious decrease in new home construction would be a welcome event in Northern Virginia. Newly elected BoS’ would have the time to review the comprehensive plans and tailor the proffers to preferred building patterns. Meanwhile, NoVA’s overtaxed infrastructure would get a chance to “catch up” to demand on that infrastructiure created in the (now dead) housing boom.

    The only casualty would be the developers’ profit margins which would fall during a downturn like everyone else’s profit margins. Blessedly, some developers will decide to get out of the business or move elsewhere.

  14. Note: state-wide $8,000 per home applies to NoVA and is the builders’ alternative to locality specific proffers. It is state-wide in that it would be controlled by the GA rather than the local governments.

  15. Anonymous Avatar

    “you actually claim that that number is a well documented and accepted fact.”

    Actually Brookings reports this one as a particularly well documented study. It is availabe to purchase at the cite I provided.

    But it is only one of several that say pretty much but not exactly the same thing. And, there are both theoretical works based on models, and actual studies that go out and see how well the model prediction was.

    Yes, they are cautious about attributing some effects because they are difficult (but not impossible) to separate. After all, they make their money by dreaming up more things to study, and they won’t get paid for long if their previous studies were wrong. Hence the caution.

    Unlike some others who simply claim an unsupported externality. There is a difference between having an (even tentative) theroretical prediction backed up by a (tentative) actual study and simply being outright wrong.

    I don’t see anything dishonest about this because I specifically included that cite to show both sides and some limitations of the issue.

    “Who actually pays the impact fee (incidence)?

    In the short-term, impact fees may cause a slight increase in housing costs if the local real estate market allows the builder to shift the cost forward to the buyer. However, in the long-term it is more than likely that the cost will be shifted backwards to landowners in the form of lower prices that may be bid for undeveloped land.”

    Isn’t that exactly what I said? the fees (partly) shift forward (providing the sales can be made at that price), and partly they shift backwards.

    How is that different from what I said, and how is that dishonest?

    “Adoption of impact fees reduces pressure on local residents to raise taxes and fees.”

    I never said that wasn’t true. But I did say that existing residents get a windfall to the tune of $1.60 for every $1 they raise taxes on their neighbors. The issue isn’t whether it is good for existing residents, the issue is whether it is TOO good.

    http://www.cga.ct.gov does say what you noted but it also says “Since the fees cut into their profit margins, developers may concentrate on building higher priced homes, reduce home quality and size, or build only in those towns that impose no fees. Consequently, the supply of affordable housing could shrink, homebuyers could pay more for less housing, and residential development could accelerate in other towns.”

    The argument on move up buyers and a rising tide lifting all boats is a new one or a red herring, take your pick. Even the move up buyer will have less to choose from and pay a higher price. His windfall profits from his smaller house won’t cover the windfall costs from his new one.

    What’s dishonest here is avoiding the fact that proffers are a windfall for those who impose and do not pay the tax.

    If I thought there was such a thing as enough evidence, I’d buy the cite for you. As it is, I’m convinced that your mind is made up: there is no point in confusing you with facts.

    RH

  16. Anonymous Avatar

    “Ray Hyde is wrong about the $1.60 for every $1.00 of proffers. This is a static ratio that can exist only in the minds of theoretical economists. In reality, the builders will not be able to pass on all the costs of impact fees and/or proffers in this market. They will have to absorb at least some of these costs (through lower profits) when they price their housing in a market that suffers from low demand and high supply. Or, they will have to slow down / stop building.”

    It is not my number and it is actually presented as an average, not a static figure. The average is pulled from theoretical and actual studies. But it matters little if it is $1 to $1.25 or $1 to $1.90. The direction is still the same, and now we are quibbling over the amount.

    The (good) builders don’t absorb the costs. Some of the costs trnsfer up, and some transfer down, in the form of lower land prices. If they do absorb costs, they don’t last long. What happens is they slow down / stop building until the prices go up.

    In any case, even if it was true, why would we cheer because builders are absorbing costs for infrastructure that they won’t use? Their customers (and other residents) are the users/beneficiaries.

    The whole idea is to get the users/beneficiaries to pay full cost – not someone else. The builder ought to be allowed to do his job and get paid fairly for it. The idea that thay can or should pay some of the costs is simply putting our hands in their pockets and stealing.

    And if full costs for the user/beneficiaries includes some (identifiable and quantifiable)externalities or market failures, then it is appropriate for government to step in with taxes or fees sufficient to correct the problem AND NO MORE THAN THAT.

    As far as I can figure out, the results are:
    1) fewer houses
    2) larger more expensive houses
    3) more pressure for more houses someplace else.
    4) lower land prices for some existing residents.
    5) higher (windfall) home values for some other residents
    6) more scatteration or sprawl or whatever you call it.
    7) fewer entry level homes, and fewer move-ups.
    8) lower tax burdens for some existng residents (some would say disproportionaltely so).

    I think we are all saying the same thing in different ways.

    RH

  17. Anonymous Avatar

    “To the extent that the builders believe times will get better they will build at depressed margins covering their variable costs. To they extent that builders stop believing that times will get better, they will deploy their capital and credit to endeavors with higher long term returns (i.e. they will find a new line of work).”

    That much is true. But what about the local tradesmen they hire? And reducing the supply of homes will raise the price, which is what everyone (with a home) would like to see.

    To hell with those that don’t have a home.

    RH

  18. Larry Gross Avatar
    Larry Gross

    I think you’re entitled to your opinion.. no matter how bizarre I think it is sometimes ….

    But you are not entitled to your own set of facts and that’s where my mind is not open..

    It’s not the hell with those that don’t have a home..and are prevented from having one.

    People DO buy homes – ALL the time.

    They often want 2400 sq foot homes.

    Sometimes, reality intrudes, and they have to settle for a 1200 sq foot home.

    This is NOT.. repeat NOT having ANY home at all or your binary thinking: “to hell with others who don’t have a home”.

    and there is a simple solution for builders who don’t want to build 1200 sq foot homes.

    You plant your foot in their hindside and you invite them to explore homebuilding opportunities elsewhere.

    Last time I looked.. they still built townhouses, and apartment buildings and condos.

  19. Anonymous Avatar

    I think we are all saying the same thing different ways.

    When you say there is a simple solution for builders who don’t want to build 1200 sq foot homes.

    You plant your foot in their hindside and you invite them to explore homebuilding opportunities elsewhere….

    it is tantamount to saying to hell with those that have no home.

    —————————–

    We make rules that encourage them to build big homes, so they can recover the costs we impose, and then we are unhappy because they don’t buld enough modest homes. But we only want modest homes someplace else. What BOS is actualy going to invite builders to build their big homes elsewhere?

    When, as you say, reality intrudes, there are few homes available. There are fewer people who move up because of the imposed price differential. Fewer people who move closer to work, because of the price differential. And less trickle down of older homes, because of the imposed price differential. And forget about Granny flats.

    There is no acceptable answer, partly because (we think) there is no cost associated with saying “No.”

    I’d be happy to build a couple of modest homes: my chances of doing so, being allowed to, are nil. Why?

    Because people believe that residential housing doesn’t pay its own way. But, as one of the articles I posted says: it depends on how you measure.

    Until we have a standard measure, or a way to decide what a standard measure is, we will never agree on anything.

    Yes, even the experts are a little tentative. Why? because they at least admit they don’t know everything. But, they don’t get stuck on one idea, and they keep chipping away at the problem. So far, they seem to be in general agreement, and that agreement is at odds with what many people still believe: that they can make themselves better off by restricting what other people do, or skewing the competition in their own favor.

    RH

  20. Larry Gross Avatar
    Larry Gross

    “it is tantamount to saying to hell with those that have no home.”

    the guy who builds homes.. is going to go broke and quit before he’s willing to build more modestly priced homes that are within the financial means of buyers.

    and so.. this translates to it being tantamount to saying: “to hell with those that have no home”.

    In other words.. it’s either a 2400 sq ft home with those granite counter tops … or they gotta go live in a tent…

    and it’s all the fault of that evil deputy who lives in a 30 year old 1200 sq foot home and who refuses to pay for the water/sewer hookup of the guy who makes 3 times his salary.

  21. Anonymous Avatar

    No one suggests that you should pay for his hook up.

    The fact remains that you are NOT payng for his hookup. You might be paying 1/65,000 ‘ths of his hookup, but we really don’t know. As the State of North Carolina points out “There are philosophical differences between the traditional way local public services have been funded and impact fees. Traditional local public financing assumes all taxpayers benefit from local public services, even if they don’t directly use them. Impact fees are based on the idea that direct beneficiaries of a public service should pay for those services.”

    As the ecnomist above points out, it is “a tiny-impact type of freeloading” But on the other hand we see nothing wrong with having the developer put in a new park so the existing kids have somewhere to play… which is also “a tiny-impact type of freeloading.”

    What part of self-righteous, small minded obstructionism is it that you don’t understand?

    Sure, I don’t want people putting their hand in my pocket, either. I also don’t wan’t people to prevent me from putting something in my pocket. Call it a property rights thing, it is MY pocket.

    In exchange, I expect to grant exactly the same courtesy to others. I recognize that no one, not even the experts, agree to the penny when that occurs. I recognize that it is foolish and counterproductive to set up a system where the tranaction costs are more than the benefit claimed or cost avoided.

    So, when we put in a system that (is generally recognized, whether you believe it or not) encourages larger homes, reduces the production of homes, and raises the price of homes in order to avoid paying 1/65000 of someone else’s hookup (that everyone benefits from), then I see it as preventing someone else from putting a lot of money in their pocket (not to mention having a home), than is being prevented from being taken out of other pockets.

    As a matter of courtesy and common sense, that kind of exchange is likely to produce bad results over time. If we cost one citizen a half million dollars out of his private pocket, in order to avoid an annual cost to the collective government pocket of $2700 a year, then I see that as a bad deal all around. A really bad deal.

    I think it is short-sighted, stupid, and grossly unfair to wheedle over something we can’t agree how to measure, and deliberately overlook the much greater opportunity costs we cause.

    If we are going to claim that every user should pay every last cent of every perceieved and unproven cost to us, then we should expect the same in return.

    If we deny that sewer hook-up, then we cause the owner the loss that amounts to the difference beteween the present use of the land and the potential use of the land, and we owe rent on that amount of money, until such time as we get around to providing the hook-up.

    If we allow the hook up and over charge for it, we are putting our hand in his pocket to prevent him from puttin his in ourrs. It is bad business, and it is bad for business. We depend on business to help pay our taxes. (Because we have set up a tax structure that let’s us (think) we are allowed to put our hends in the pocket of business).

    One way or another, unless you get it exactly right, it boils down to stealing. If we insist on a means of getting it exactly right (user pays) the means may cost us more than the ends are worth. I see that as if the moron who insists on it is putting his hand in my pocket.

    Once you resolve it as a matter of EQUAL property rights, it is pretty clear. But as long as you think your rights are primary, the argument won’t work.

    In short, I don’t worry about someone else’s shower, or someone else’s congestion, as long as I am allowed to have mine. I recognize this may not be the optimal condition, but until we can demonstrate that some other situation is really better, I don’t fret or obsess about it, because I believe it will end up costing me more than I save.

    I could be wrong. When someone shows me reasonbly credible evidence that they have a plan that will work better, then I’m willing to listen. Until then, I think the cites listed above provide reasonably credible evidence that proffers cause more damage than they correct. Since I depend on other people’s wealth to derive my own wealth, I think (excessive) proffers are bad for me. They amount to taking MORE money out of my pocket in order to prevent a little from coming out.

    And on top of all that, I simply don’t believe it is about proffers at all. We jsut don’t want change. Don’t want mre neighbors. Don’t want others to have what we (think) we have (even though some of it, in fact, belongs to others. I think the argument for proffers is a front for an excuse to steal from others. It is an ingenious and complex circular argument because it is based on the idea of preventing thme from stealing from us.

    But it is still a circular argument.

    When we put together a system that is (partially, or maybe completely) responsible for his inability to build more homes, smaller homes, or any homes; when we put together a system that mutually requires all homes to be built someplace else; that even raises the price of rental homes; then we ARE saying to hell with those with no homes.

    Who may be our grown kids living with us.

    It is an idiotic, schizophrenic, uneconomic, self-defeating system.
    As the economist says it is a good example of governmental ignorance-of-economics-is-bliss.

    But it is OK because the majority of voters approve.

    BS. BS. BS.

    You no doubt think my ideas are bizarre, but I don’t see anything bizarre about expecting to give at the same level of idiocy as I demand to get. I prefer not to pay for idiocy.

    RH.

  22. Anonymous Avatar

    Cheer up, Larry. You could be living in a 150 year old 3300 sq ft house, on which you pay your own taxes, and then contribute a few thousand more to help pay other’s taxes.

    Besides, you did choose that house, right? You could have chosen one that was 900 sq. ft.

    But we all recognize that houses like that cost more than they pay in. We ought ot make those users pay more, to cover their costs.

    RH

  23. Ray:

    The proposed bill calls for $8,000 per single family home in NoVA. This does not cover the costs of new schools required for the kids who will move into these single family homes. Roads, libaries, etc are just more costs that are not covered by the $8,000.

    How should the construction (not the operation) of schools, roads, etc be financed? These costs are directly attributable to the new housing construction.

    Ray’s point about people not being able to afford their home has an underlying assumption – it assumes that the population of people wanting single family homes is growing. Otherwise, a new arrived family buys an existing home vacated by a departing family. There is no need for incrimental infrastructure and no need to pay for incrimental construction of infrastructure.

    I believe that the population of Northern Virginia in general (and Fairfax County, Arlington and Alexandria in particular) is changing rapidly. One set of people is moving out and a different (somewhat larger) set of people is moving in. You see it in the political slant of the area. However, and this is the key, I think the population of Arlington, Fairfax and Alexandria is likely to level off or decline over the next 10 years. The federal government is going to slow its spending, the baby boomers are going to retire elsewhere, etc. Allowing developers to build homes with the cost of new infrastructure foisted on a growing population that never arrives is a catastrophic mistake. This is “the Connolley trap” – the costs are placed on future residents who have not even moved here yet. Therefore, we must grow and grow to attract those futire residents which just further escalates the problem. This house of cards is going to collapse. One stabilizing point would be to require all builders to pay the full costs of their new home construction. If that raises prices and slows the demand for new homes – good.

  24. Larry Gross Avatar
    Larry Gross

    “How should the construction (not the operation) of schools, roads, etc be financed? These costs are directly attributable to the new housing construction.”

    well, hasn’t he already answered that question?

    “”There are philosophical differences between the traditional way local public services have been funded and impact fees. Traditional local public financing assumes all taxpayers benefit from local public services, even if they don’t directly use them. Impact fees are based on the idea that direct beneficiaries of a public service should pay for those services.”

    As the ecnomist above points out, it is “a tiny-impact type of freeloading”

    Basically Ray thinks that any/all schools – no matter what the rate of growth or the bonding capacity of the locality should be paid for by all taxpayers in a jurisdiction and that charging proffers and impact fees is “stealing”.

    He reject the concept of new homebuyers having to pay for the infrastructure.

  25. Anonymous Avatar

    Crap. My response to Groveton and Larry got swallowed by the ether. And not the first time.

    Resolved. No more extemporaneous responses that make me look like a madman who cannot spell.

    From now on, I use Word (or some better competitor) offline.

    I any case, I have been fortunate enough, though a number of situations, to be able to contribute here while a number of other projects percolated modestly on the back burner.

    Now it appears that the coffee is boiling and I may have to produce previously promised results. For those of you who are fiscal conservitives, you will be pleased to know they are firm fixed price.

    My available time will likely be subtantially reduced.

    I hope that you have viewed me as a friendly pariah here. And that antagonists (not to say my enemies), will miss me a little.

    RH

  26. Larry Gross Avatar
    Larry Gross

    I hate to see your voice .go missing.. and if my style of dialog has been too harsh.. at times, I would apologize.

    I would rather see you stick around if time permits because your point of view – that as you know I strenuously disagree with – is representative of a substantial number of people and thus needs to be represented in any honest discussion of such issues.

  27. Anonymous Avatar

    The philosophical differences thing isn’t my quote. It comes from the State of North Carolina. I don’t espouse EITHER philosophy, because I think they are BOTH partially wrong. We cannot (always or accurately) identify who the direct beneficiaries are and so a strict “users pays” philosophy will fail because it concentrates the costs on a smaller base, thereby making many projects automatically not doable. In that regard it is a false front for a no-growth position.

    But Larry is also right: frequently the black box method penalizes light duty users with full costs. I tend to agree with the economist: both sides preferentially choose to see their view of things and make a mountain out of a “tiny impact” mole hill.

    I do not reject the idea of new homebuyers having to pay for infrastructure, but I think we have evaluated the costs wrongly, and we are not working to find the “right” answer. If we find it, it might undermine our argument.

    We have the same problem with the black box method, in reverse. In the proffer case we cannot accurately identify who is creating new costs or using/benefiting from new infrastructure. On the black box side we cannot verify who the slight users are: if we could, we could offer rebates.

    I think the proper system will have some of both attributes, and it will have a MUCH better means of assessing the cost generators and the revenue generators (more public transparency). For example, one of the quotes asks the question if there should be fees when existing residents create a new child and bring him into the system. How is that any different from moving in and bringing a child with?

    I don’t believe that we actually know that “These costs are directly attributable to the new housing construction.” It is an argument that has been repeated so often it is believed, but it has also been refuted by economists. As the North Carolina article puts it, it depends on how you measure. At best, it is partially true.

    So, before we spend a lot of time arguing over something, we ought to agree on the best manner of measuring.

    ————————-

    How should these things be financed? I don’t know, but freezing the gas tax on a per gallon basis for thirty years won’t work. Continually arguing about keeping taxes down, and then complaining because there isn’t enough money is silly. Forcing more and more costs onto a smaller and disenfranchised portion of the population is counterproductive and unfair. Rather than try to keep spending at population plus inflation, we ought to peg it to GDP, which is growing much faster and indicates our ability to pay.

    Subject to the proviso that we fix the philosophical issues, and fix them fairly. Roads libraries etc are not covered by the fee. They have their own source of funds, and they are also probably measured, supplied, and funded wrongly.

    So, rather than screw around with spending and budgets etc. we should just say (something like) we will spend x% of GDP on roads, y% on transit, z% on schools, etc. And it will be adjusted when (……) occurs or under these conditions.

    Then, if your pet project needs more money, then you should go out an increase the GDP, not try to squeeze the balloon, or increase your take at the expense of others.

    After that we need some kind of feedback mechanism that relates the kind of expenditures made to how fast they grow (or stagnate) the GDP. ROI if you will. If we get that done, no one will be over or undercharged. No ones bill will increase faster than their share of the economy.

    Then we can put this thing on autopilot and stop arguing about whois paying too much and who is getting a free ride. My position is that I am against the argument: it is stupid silly, and wasteful.

    I have an automatic wind vane steerer on my boat. Once the sails and steerer are adjusted, the steerer automatically keeps the exact angle to the wind as set up. If the wind changes the steerer follows. If the wind blows harder, the steerer reacts accordingly, up to a point.

    It is as dumb as toast, very simple, reacts to the slightest change, and never gets tired. It once steered for 19 days. When I am at top form, I can do a little better than the steerer, for about an hour. I can look ahead and anticipate changes instead of just reacting. When major changes occur, it or the sails or both need to be readjusted. But basically the thing is foolproof, and on average it will beat me fiddling at the margin every time.

    In this analogy the sails are the GDP, the wind is the economy, and the steerer is the tax man. If we had a revenue and expense system that worked as well as my steerer, we be in fat city, comparatively.

    BUT

    You still need to know where the boat is going: you have to set some priorities. And since it does not go straight ahead, you need some way of measuring: determining when to tack, such that you get where you are going and don’t run on the shoals.

    And it doesn’t help to have an EMR aboard who says every course is wrong. There is usually some way to make most courses work: they just have different costs.

    RH

  28. Larry Gross Avatar
    Larry Gross

    I don’t think we need to “figure” anything out.

    let the free market work.

    if there is a subsidy…stomp it out and let competition sort out the winners and loser.

    No one is “owed” a subsidy not before the get it and not after it is taken away.

    When we give subsidies – what we ARE doing IS.. picking winners and losers…

    and the only way we OUGHT to justify a subsidy under such circumstances is if the recipients are folks who cannot fend for themselves and that excludes all businesses engaged in economic competitiveness.

    If people are going to pay for shipping costs – let the various players in the market compete to see who can deliver goods.. the fastest..most efficiently .. for the least cost

    .. and let those who pay for shipping .. pick the winners and losers…

    (but I still don’t think even if you took away ALL the real and even perceived subsidies from trucks – that the more successful business model would be .. trains – and that’s why it’s amusing to me.. to see some folks thinking that rail will replace the trucks on I-81.)

    The only trucks on I-81 that would be potentially replaced are the ones that are long-distance trucking… hundreds of miles…

    … no the trucks going from regional distribution centers to retail stores…

    .. when you see a truck on I-81 with Walmart on it… that truck is not carrying stuff form a factor in Illinois or even a container load of hockey gloves from a container in Norfolk.

    If’s carrying thousands of individual items that will RE-STOCK one or more Walmarts – everything from LCD TVs to hemorrhoid ointment.

    In EMR’s Balanced Community Drug Store – I can assure you that there will NOT be a barrel of bulk band-aids.

    🙂

  29. Anonymous Avatar

    Free markets work fine, as long as there is a market. Subsidies are one way to level the playing field for non-market goods.

    “let the free market work.

    if there is a subsidy…stomp it out and let competition sort out the winners and loser.”

    I think home builders and existing residents are subsidized by zoning. I agree with you that we should stamp it out.

    “When we give subsidies – what we ARE doing IS.. picking winners and losers…”

    But what about the case where a subsidy is really an investment: when it creates, over time, more winners than losers, and the losers get repaid? Is it still a bad thing?

    The U.S. Subsidized itself by stealing land from the Indians and kicking them out. By now the U.S. has made enough money to have paid them back with interest many times over. Should we have forgone that subsidy? Having made the money, should we pay bck the losers?

    RH

  30. Anonymous Avatar

    I agree. The problem with freight rail and passenger rail is the same. At some level they cannot compete with individual vehicles.

    EMR, just doesn’t get it. he thinks a few examples prove an entire system can work that way. In fact, the system supports and subsidizes the examples he shows.

    The examples are not paying their full locational costs.

    RH

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