Bacon's Rebellion

Democracy Thrives in Sunlight

Place, Class and Race and K-12 Educational Success in Virginia

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sherlockj
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by James C. Sherlock

In order to better understand the contributions of place, class and race on K-12 academic achievement in Virginia, I did a great deal of research over a period of several days and from it constructed a spreadsheet, Reading and Math Virginia 2018-2019 SOL results by State and Division by Subject by Subgroup.

I have found the results very informative, even stunning. If you think you understand Virginia at this level of granularity, you may be surprised.

My experiment (and the spreadsheet) is anchored by the bottom quartile of 133 Virginia counties and cities as ranked by health outcomes by the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation for 2020. Poor health outcomes not only represent a major obstacle for academic achievement, but are an excellent proxy for the relative poverty of that bottom quartile.

I recorded English Reading and Mathematics 2018-2019 SOL results (Virginia Department of Education) among the public school students in each locality. Results are broken out by race, economic disadvantage, English Learners, gender and students with disabilities.

I then listed for comparison the identical SOL results for Fairfax County, Arlington County, Loudon County and Falls Church City, unsurprisingly the top four Virginia localities in health outcomes.

Finally, I compiled 2017 demographic information (U.S. Census Bureau and U.S. Department of Commerce) for three of these disadvantaged counties that had outstanding SOL scores. You will I think be astonished at some of those data standing alone, much less when put in context of the results in their public schools.

I will leave it to readers to draw their own conclusions about the affects of place, class and race on academic achievement. I could draw no conclusion that survived the examination of the demographics and academic results in those three locales.

That is my overarching point. Kids grow up in real places. Stereotyping entire populations by race without considering place and class is a fools errand.

This spreadsheet alone could and should launch a dozen doctoral theses.

 

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58 responses to “Place, Class and Race and K-12 Educational Success in Virginia”

  1. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
    Dick Hall-Sizemore

    I commend you for your effort and persistence. I apologize, but there is too much in the spreadsheet for me to make any sense of it. In my experience, with this many variables, it is best to conduct some sort of correlationship analysis, in which some variables are held constant in order to determine the importance of other variables. I took statistics courses many years ago, and that is the extent of my understanding.

    1. Nathan Avatar
      Nathan

      Dick Hall-Sizemore – In my view, that’s an honest assessment. Question for you. Are there fewer potential variables involved in each state administration’s response to coronavirus? Were talking about hundreds of millions of humans in every possible circumstance. Is that less complex?

      There is much we know about the coronavirus itself. That’s science. But the relationship between efforts to control coronavirus by governments and the short and long term consequences of those policies on public health and wellbeing are yet to be determined. I’ve read many hypotheses, but no studies with the controlled variables you mention. Pretending this is settled science and denouncing anyone who has a different opinion, or different hypothesis is demagoguery, not science.

      I do wish the news media at large still believed in free speech and the marketplace of ideas.

  2. sherlockj Avatar
    sherlockj

    That means you got it Dick. So many variables.

  3. Nancy_Naive Avatar
    Nancy_Naive

    Fun, but I gather that “disadvantaged” includes some of the grades under each race. It would, of course, be cool if you could group first by economic status “disadvantaged” and “not so” and then each of those by race, e.g. White disadvantage, Asian not so.

    Not disadvantaged = privileged?

    1. sherlockj Avatar
      sherlockj

      You are right, it would be very cool, and would get to the very heart of the matter, but I exhausted the data available.

      1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
        Nancy_Naive

        Yeah, ya know when we were kids, you heard comedians, actors, politicians always saying, “I grew up poor, but I didn’t know we were poor.”

        Well, nowadays they would have known they were poor, and poverty is soul crushing.

      2. Nancy_Naive Avatar
        Nancy_Naive

        test.

      3. Nancy_Naive Avatar
        Nancy_Naive

        When we were kids, you heard many people, comedians, politicians, actors, say, “I grew poor, but I never knew how poor we were.”

        Well, nowadays they know. In the last 20 years more people have slipped into poverty, and what’s worse, it’s a definition of poverty that hasn’t kept pace with inflation, so it’s even worse than just the numbers.

        Poverty in the lower 48 is something like $12,000 income. A full time, minimum wage job is ~$15,000 and minimum wage constitutes something like 1/3 of the jobs.

        I am only one data point, but for 6 years, I averaged 1800 hours between a part time year round job and full time summer jobs at minimum wage.

        With that, I paid for tuition, books, and a ratty shared apartment, graduating debt-free from a 3rd tier State college.

        Try that today where minimum wage is 1/2, relatively speaking, to the minimum wage I was paid when it comes to buying power and agaist tuition and rent that is 3x what we faced.

        Poverty today is soul crushing. BTW, apparently an earlier response is somewhere in the ether.

        1. djrippert Avatar
          djrippert

          https://www.baconsrebellion.com/poverty-does-not-mean-destitution/

          1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
            Nancy_Naive

            Nice, but it does nothing to compare the ability of those working poor to move from poverty to, oh say, the next quintile.

          2. Nancy_Naive Avatar
            Nancy_Naive

            Taking care of them, by providing services and medical care, food stamps, etc., is not the same as proving a means of escape.

  4. cjbova Avatar
    cjbova

    What are Galax, Tazewell, Dickenson and Wise doing right? Maybe that’s what the VDOE should be trying to find out.

    Considering poor health outcomes, I’m wondering how many children in those areas have unrecognized or delayed recognition of sight, hearing or dental problems or learning disabilities that interfere with their learning.

    A great and difficult job to pull this together. Thank you!

  5. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
    James Wyatt Whitehead V

    The Superintendent at Mecklenburg County Schools, Mr. Paul Nichols, should be commended and and consulted with for excellence in academics. Captain Sherlock’s spreadsheet led me to the VDOE website to investigate further about the success in Mecklenburg. Roughly equal in the number of black and white students this school division has demonstrated that the disparities in outcomes can be narrowed. Scores are strong across elementary, middle, and high school levels. This county is the very essence of Southside Virginia. A few small towns you might have heard of like Clarksville, Chase City, and South Hill. But mostly rural communities such as Buffalo Springs, Lombardy Grove, Baskerville, Union Level, and Lacrosse. The top of the teacher’s pay scale after 36 years in this county is just $63,000. I think Loudoun and Fairfax start teachers here. Median income for families in the county is $31,000. About 20% are below the poverty level. Teachers here are exceeding expectations thanks to the leadership of Mr. Nichols. There is something special happening in Mecklenburg. Maybe it is the healing waters from the Buffalo Lithium Springs? Even Santa Anna swore by this in the 1850s. I find it ironic that Mecklenburg County is named for King George III’s wife Charlotte of Mecklenburg.
    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b1/Charlotte_gainsborough.jpg

    1. Reed Fawell 3rd Avatar
      Reed Fawell 3rd

      Summation:

      We know how to educate children. The great majority of us just don’t have the will, ethics and courage to do it.

  6. LarrytheG Avatar
    LarrytheG

    Congrats to Jim and agree with advice from Dick and comments from Carol.

    I did a little more nosing around in the VDOE build-a-table, and school quality profiles… for Galax, Tazewell, Dickenson and there are a couple of things to recognize.

    1. – if you look at enrollment data, very few blacks… there are some at some schools.

    2. – These are more akin to county-wide, city-wide than neighborhood schools. In other words, the schools are not stratified by neighborhood demographics.. like you’d see in more urbanized places where the district has dozens of schools and they mostly serve neighborhoods that are stratified by income and education demographics.

    So rural schools typically just gather up all kids within a radius around the school which includes all manner of dispersed housing and less subsdivisions like one would see in a place like Henrico which has dozens of schools which are much more associated with neighborhood subdivisions.

    One of the things that really amazes me with the larger school districts is just how much difference there is in SOL scores between schools within that same district. How can such wildly difference scores be explained? (this is Grade 3 reading SOL scores):

    Henrico Elementary School Name Pass Rate

    Glen Lea Elementary 31.51
    Laburnum Elementary 40.91
    Dumbarton Elementary 41.25
    Fair Oaks Elementary 41.67
    Elizabeth Holladay Elementary 46.59
    Longdale Elementary 47.89
    Harold Macon Ratcliffe Elementary 48
    Charles M. Johnson Elementary 48.61
    Cashell Donahoe Elementary 48.78
    Highland Springs Elementary 49.33
    Lakeside Elementary 50
    Henry D. Ward Elementary 53.33
    Chamberlayne Elementary 56.92
    Ridge Elementary 57.14
    Montrose Elementary 58.46
    Arthur Ashe Jr. Elementary 59.15
    Jacob L. Adams Elementary 59.26
    Varina Elementary 61.54
    Skipwith Elementary 61.89
    Crestview Elementary 67.35
    Harvie Elementary 68.13
    George F. Baker Elementary 68.52
    Seven Pines Elementary 70.42
    Three Chopt Elementary 72
    Maude Trevvett Elementary 72.22
    Pinchbeck Elementary 73.27
    Ruby F. Carver Elementary 74.36
    Sandston Elementary 75
    Maybeury Elementary 75.96
    R.C. Longan Elementary 76.71
    Echo Lake Elementary 78.41
    Glen Allen Elementary 80.34
    Greenwood Elementary 81.05
    Springfield Park Elementary 82.61
    Pemberton Elementary 83.33
    Short Pump Elementary 85.09
    Jackson Davis Elementary 87.67
    Colonial Trail Elementary 88.79
    Tuckahoe Elementary 89.25
    Gayton Elementary 89.53
    Nuckols Farm Elementary 90
    David A. Kaechele Elementary 90.79
    Twin Hickory Elementary 91.09
    Rivers Edge Elementary 94.44
    Shady Grove Elementary 94.83

    Now take Dickerson Elementary schools:

    School Name Race Pass Rate

    Clintwood Elementary 79.59
    Ervinton Elementary 100
    Ridgeview Middle 82.76
    Sandlick Elementary 86.27

    Notice that Henrico actually have quite a few individual schools
    that score hgher than Dickerson.

    Henrico is 245 sq miles and Dickerson is 334

    Henrico – 51,000 students, Dickerson – 2000

    1. Nathan Avatar
      Nathan

      I think it would be a mistake to assume that schools and teachers are the biggest, or only factor in play here. Both my children could read before they ever went to school. We started reading to them practically from birth.

      I’ve read that “access” to books and reading materials is the key. We read hundreds of books to our children, and the vast majority were borrowed from the local library.

      Parents play huge role. Any discussion about education that neglects the parents and home environment is ignoring what is most important. And BTW, I inherited my belief in the importance of reading from my father. He was born in 1924 and dropped out of school after grade 6. They were poor and he had to help support the family. He struggled to provide for us and worked multiple jobs. That didn’t prevent him from reading to my brother and I every night for many years.

    2. sherlockj Avatar
      sherlockj

      So what is the lesson for Virginia that you take away?

      1. Nathan Avatar
        Nathan

        Yes, any example is pointless without an application to others.

        One of the greatest injustices in American is the teaching and preaching of hopelessness. People of any race or culture who are fed a steady diet of it are hurt. Don’t break the human spirit.

        The American Dream is alive and well for those who believe in it, and one need not be born here to realize it. I’ve seen immigrants who believed that they could succeed in America overcome what seemed like insurmountable odds to make a good life for themselves and their children. That’s not to say it’s easy. It isn’t for many.

        But if a segment the population is taught that all the cards are stacked against them, it has an impact them over time. That’s true in rural areas, and urban ones. Hopelessness is debilitating.

        I’m all for better teachers, better schools, better colleges and more job opportunities. We need to do better. But America is still the best place to live no matter one’s race, ethnicity, religion, or wealth. Don’t focus so much attention on what’s wrong, and out of people’s control that they come to believe they can’t succeed but for better schools, better politicians, better programs, etc.

        I used my background because reading scores were mentioned in the discussion and the role of the parents wasn’t given its due in my opinion.

      2. Nathan Avatar
        Nathan

        BTW – I further suggest that Ben Carson’s life story and those of others who have beaten the odds should be taught in schools. I would find success stories from a wide range of backgrounds.

        The examples are out there. Nowhere is hopelessness more apparent than on some Native American reservations.

        “Native American Success Stories”

        https://fee.org/articles/native-american-success-stories/

        And the public at large needs to be reminded constantly about the important role of parents, family and community. It’s not all up to the teachers.

      3. Nathan Avatar
        Nathan

        You have done a great deal of work for which I commend you, but I believe some important data is not available to you. Most of each child’s life is spent outside of school. What happens there is critical, but seldom discussed. Data is scarce.

        Within the best schools, some children fail. Why is that?

        Within the worst schools, some children succeed. Why is that?

        Raw intellect sometimes plays a role, but that’s only part of the story. I’ve known many very bright children who struggled at the same schools where others have done well.

        My wife taught at some very challenging places, and the stories of what some children face at home would break your heart. “Why can’t Johnny read?” Sometimes Johnny is just trying to survive neglect or abuse.

        Thank you for your contribution, however. You have prompted some interesting discussions.

  7. Reed Fawell 3rd Avatar
    Reed Fawell 3rd

    Here is the coming next revolution on America. It is a counter-revolution, a grand reformation:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VoEuCOfjTYQ

    1. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
      James Wyatt Whitehead V

      I’ve read about Klacik before. She seems to be a very dedicated. It would be refreshing to see someone like Klacik enter Virginia politics and hold up the conservative banner.

      1. Nathan Avatar
        Nathan

        “It would be refreshing to see someone like Klacik enter Virginia politics and hold up the conservative banner.”

        When minorities like Kimberly Klacik try to make a difference, they meet will organized and vicious opposition from the left. People like her ruin the approved narrative, and are therefore a threat to their power.

        There’s your systematic racism. The reaction on the left to African American conservatives. Can you say Clarence Thomas? Remember when they he was excluded from the National Museum of African American History?

        https://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/judicial/306583-clarence-thomas-notable-absence-from-museum-where-is-the-justice

    2. Reed Fawell 3rd Avatar
      Reed Fawell 3rd

      Nathan is on a roll big time with all his comments.

    3. Nancy_Naive Avatar
      Nancy_Naive

      Well, she asked and she shall receive…

      https://www.thatsister.com/best-cities-in-america-for-black-families-to-live/

      And from a website run by mostly black women … That list is the 10 best cities, judged by them, to be the best places to live and work if you are black, and in response to Ms. Klacik’s challenge, 9 of the 10 are run by Democrats, with San Diego being the only exception.

      My personal update on one of the cities, Dallas. It’s a zoo politically. Reading the Dallas Morning News and the independent weeklies (can’t remember the names) is hilarious. Especially enjoyable is any story about the Dallas Independent School District whose makeup is 1/3 eac black, white and Hispanic with an alternating superintendent based on race as per agreement.

      But, despite the political tensions, the city is indeed a great place to live. It’s especially cool because Fort Worth is only 30 minutes away — another racially diverse and neat place 24/7. With a 5-year old in tow, you could easily enjoy the downtown nightlife at midnight and feel safe, and we did.

      My favorite impression of Fort Worth occurred one May weekend during Main Street Days, a week long celebration of, well, cowboys. Downtown, hot as begeezes, hungry, my family ducked into a small restaurant, a cafeteria style place. The girl who took our order was clearly of Asian descent. The cook was equally discernible as Hispanic. Behind our table was 3 or 4 men of Middle Eastern origin, speaking in whatever language was native to them. The family who were behind us in line, and with whom we spoke at lunch, were Jamaican and had just moved to the city. Hmmm, Cowboys, eh?

      1. Nathan Avatar
        Nathan

        Best cities for black families? Is this satire, or do the authors of the article not care about violence, corruption, unemployment, schools, etc.?

        Washington D.C.? Yah boy. that’s paradise on Earth.

        Richmond is #3 and “Richmond boasts some of the best schools…”

        So why are we discussing how to improve schools? We the definitive word from the experts – just move to Richmond.

        People should be sure to check that site for recommendations before traveling oversees on vacation with the family. I can see it now…

        1.Afghanistan
        2. Syria
        3. South Sudan
        4.Yemen
        5. Iraq
        6. Somalia
        7. Central African Republic
        8. Libya
        9. Democratic Republic of Congo
        10. Russia

        Here, the article is almost written for them. They just need to change the text and add some pictures of families having fun.

        https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/most-dangerous-countries

        1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
          Nancy_Naive

          Hey, the lady in the video challenged someone to name a city, run by Democrats, friendly to black families. I gave her a response. So, pull Ricmond and DC and you still have 7.

    4. TBill Avatar
      TBill

      Oh I like that woman.

  8. LarrytheG Avatar
    LarrytheG

    In terms of success – here is some public schools:

    Henrico elementary schools 3rd grade SOL reading scores:

    Short Pump Elementary 85.09
    Jackson Davis Elementary 87.67
    Colonial Trail Elementary 88.79
    Tuckahoe Elementary 89.25
    Gayton Elementary 89.53
    Nuckols Farm Elementary 90
    David A. Kaechele Elementary 90.79
    Twin Hickory Elementary 91.09
    Rivers Edge Elementary 94.44
    Shady Grove Elementary 94.83

    So , does this mean that Henrico knows how to teach kids well ?

    1. sherlockj Avatar
      sherlockj

      Why not choose Glen Lea Elementary, Laburnum Elementary, Dumbarton Elementary and Fair Oaks Elementary and ask does this mean Henrico cannot teach kids well?

      The public policy revelation, derived from results in the smaller school systems in poor counties, is that poor kids of all races can learn even in districts without what would in rich counties be deemed essential resources, so success does not vary directly with the dollar investments in schools. Another is that kids don’t learn in all poor districts.

      The public policy question is what are the successful yet poorly resourced systems doing to produce sparkling results for children of all races? And can that be duplicated elsewhere? Or if not, why not?

      You will see these observations again in a post later today.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        I don’t disagree with your questions but I also don’t think all “poor” school systems teach that well either.. a few do , just like a few in Henrico do also.

        Others do not, including some in Henrico.

        so what is the difference?

        Why does a rich school system like Henrico not only excel at some schools but fail miserably at others?

        I still think there is a fundamental difference between rural schools that draw students from across the county – and not from predominately rich areas or predominately poor areas like some urban systems seem to.

        By the way, if you go to Chesterfield, or Fairfax or other urbanized districts, similar outcomes – some schools really good and others bad.

        Someone said something about parents and I agree but some parents have terrible educations themselves, are single and work at low paying jobs.. they just can’t provide the help their kids need.

        So do we abandon those kids because their parents are not able to help them? Would we do that no matter if it is an urban or rural school or a public or private school? In other words, if you are born to an uneducated/poor parent – you are screwed – no one is going to help you?

    2. djrippert Avatar
      djrippert

      There are only 10 elementary schools in Henrico County?

      1. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        sorry everyone else!

        Glen Lea Elementary 31.51
        Laburnum Elementary 40.91
        Dumbarton Elementary 41.25
        Fair Oaks Elementary 41.67
        Elizabeth Holladay Elementary 46.59
        Longdale Elementary 47.89
        Harold Macon Ratcliffe Elementary 48
        Charles M. Johnson Elementary 48.61
        Cashell Donahoe Elementary 48.78
        Highland Springs Elementary 49.33
        Lakeside Elementary 50
        Henry D. Ward Elementary 53.33
        Chamberlayne Elementary 56.92
        Ridge Elementary 57.14
        Montrose Elementary 58.46
        Arthur Ashe Jr. Elementary 59.15
        Jacob L. Adams Elementary 59.26
        Varina Elementary 61.54
        Skipwith Elementary 61.89
        Crestview Elementary 67.35
        Harvie Elementary 68.13
        George F. Baker Elementary 68.52
        Seven Pines Elementary 70.42
        Three Chopt Elementary 72
        Maude Trevvett Elementary 72.22
        Pinchbeck Elementary 73.27
        Ruby F. Carver Elementary 74.36
        Sandston Elementary 75
        Maybeury Elementary 75.96
        R.C. Longan Elementary 76.71
        Echo Lake Elementary 78.41
        Glen Allen Elementary 80.34
        Greenwood Elementary 81.05
        Springfield Park Elementary 82.61
        Pemberton Elementary 83.33
        Short Pump Elementary 85.09
        Jackson Davis Elementary 87.67
        Colonial Trail Elementary 88.79
        Tuckahoe Elementary 89.25
        Gayton Elementary 89.53
        Nuckols Farm Elementary 90
        David A. Kaechele Elementary 90.79
        Twin Hickory Elementary 91.09
        Rivers Edge Elementary 94.44
        Shady Grove Elementary 94.83

  9. sherlockj Avatar
    sherlockj

    No one here or anywhere has or will recommend that we “abandon these kids”. I am trying to bring forward with data the case that race is but one of a long list of factors in educational success.

    My own conclusion: the questions cannot have a singular focus on race or we risk developing policy that strategically risks doing more harm than good. Policy that upsets more people than it pleases, setting back whatever racial progress we might seek. A focus on class is more inclusive of the problems, and can, especially in Virginia with its almost unique political demographics, bring consensus while helping black kids disproportionately.

    Never forget that black-focused solutions in education will most disproportionately disadvantage Asians, not whites, and I am pretty sure that they have not done anything to deserve it.

    1. LarrytheG Avatar
      LarrytheG

      ” Never forget that black-focused solutions in education will most disproportionately disadvantage Asians, not whites, and I am not sure what they have done to deserve it.”

      If the goal is for each child to reach a basic level of literacy in reading and math – why do they become the enemies of those who will achieve more than that? nothing to do with race.

      If someone is from a family of immigrants that came here already having wealth and education – and compare them to someone whose ancestors were enslaved without helping their kids with wealth or education.. how do we compare them fairly in terms of what they should receive in terms of a public education?

      Both want to achieve as much as they have potential – but one of them is already advanced and the other has yet to achieve even minimal literacy.

      1. sherlockj Avatar
        sherlockj

        I should have said disadvantage Asians “in college acceptances”, which is where my mind was.

  10. BDB85 Avatar
    BDB85

    Asians and Hispanics really, really, really need to be dis-aggregated categories for education. Especially the first–what a Pakistani, a Korean, and Samoan are supposed to have in common I haven’t the slightest clue.

    Actually, Black should be too–I’d be willing to bet there are real differences between African-Americans, African immigrants, and those from the Black Caribbean. The middle group in the United States tends to be folks who have a LOT of social capital (such as educational credentials, or parents that were highly educated in the “old country”) before they migrate here. The most highly educated group in the entire United States? Nigerian-Americans! I’m also reminded of a neighbor I had growing up, her parents were immigrants from Ghana and she was a straight-A student and ended up getting accepted to Maggie Walker. Her dad, of course, was a PhD chemist and spoke five languages.

    Race obscures as much as it clarifies here.

    1. sherlockj Avatar
      sherlockj

      One of my core points exactly. But rather than disaggregating further by race, how about dealing with the effects of poverty and letting racial disparities find their natural levels in those solutions.

    2. djrippert Avatar
      djrippert

      I always loved “In Living Color” especially the Hey Mon skits. “You only have 8 jobs?? Lazy woman!” Given the garbage on TV these days it’s mystifying to me why the Wayman Brothers don’t have a show.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6wtj04dJ_g

  11. Reed Fawell 3rd Avatar
    Reed Fawell 3rd

    “Never forget that black-focused solutions in education will most disproportionately disadvantage Asians, not whites, and I am pretty sure that they have not done anything to deserve it.”

    I suggest that no one has done “anything to deserve being disproportionately disadvantaged.”

    And that “black-focused solutions” have to date, and will in the future, overwhelmingly disadvantage disproportionately black children, for all the reasons that have been discussed on this blog for years, including many of the comments below this post.

  12. LarrytheG Avatar
    LarrytheG

    So, here’s the deal.

    Some kids make it to be pro sports players. Others make it to be entertainers and other significant achievements.

    But most do not.

    Some kids have good parents, but many others do not.

    So those kids need a basic public education.

    We can disavow it.

    We can say if they are not like Ben Carson or a top sports or entertainer they are screwed.

    But it is actually us who are screwed – because out of a workforce of about 150 million people about 75 million receive Medicaid – paid for by you and me. And that’ just a start. Free and Reduced lunches, food stamps, housing vouchers, welfare, etc.. etc.. all paid for buy those who did get a good education.

    We can make excuses, and we do but is this really the outcome we want?

    We’re okay with this?

    1. sherlockj Avatar
      sherlockj

      Larry, you are the only person on this blog who keeps citing clearly unacceptable data and asking if we are OK with it. Do the work. Offer public policy solutions.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        I HAVE offered solutions, guy. but the majority of you guys make excuses like ” bad parents” or “asians are better” or why do blacks score so much lower? rhetoric questions.

        Some kids are harder to teach. They do not have “good” parents – and we have to spend more resources to teach them. We know it does work when we do it but we argue that’s it’s “wrong” to do it if it takes away from other students… kids who already have achieved – but its wrong to help the others because it takes away from those who could achieve even more…

        We have a significant number of kids – innocent kids – who are failing to get educated to minimal standards – necessary for them to be employed in the economy and not need entitlements.

        But we keep making this about “bad” parents, culture, genes and “reverse discrimination”.. and other foolishness.

        One more time – I support non-public schools if they take the hard-to-teach AND are transparent about their results. If they can do what public schools cannot – so be it.

        I just point out also, one more time that counties like Henrico actually produce higher scoring kids than even the rural counties like Galax and Dickenson… of course they also produce some of the worst educated kids also. How can that be – in the very same school system?

      2. Reed Fawell 3rd Avatar
        Reed Fawell 3rd

        Larry and his ilk think a money problem and systemic racism stand in the way of our educating disadvantaged kids for success.

        Others, including myself, believe that cultural and ideological, and social and political problems of governance, stand in the way of building and operating systems that educate all children, including disadvantaged kids, for success. And that history proves this again and again.

        As a corollary:

        I believe that race has nothing to do with the obstacles to educating disadvantaged children in America. That this holds true except only to the extent that some use the false claim of racism, including systemic racism, based on skin color, as a weapon to claim a child’s inherent disadvantage in learning, and in gaining an education for success, in America.

        Since I believe the color of a child’s skin has no rightful bearing on the inherent potential of a child in America today, I believe such a claim to the contrary does great long lasting damage to the child, no matter the child’s color, and does so at great cost to all of us, most particularly all children, as this red herring diverts attention from deploying real solutions to real problems, while those false claims acerbate those real problems instead.

    2. djrippert Avatar
      djrippert

      You conflate the count of working people with the count of all people receiving Medicaid. The Medicaid count includes children, etc.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        It does include children – of poor parents… To be fair, it also includes disabled and elderly.

        The Medicaid Expansion in Virginia is 400,000 working age adults.

      2. djrippert Avatar
        djrippert

        The right comparison would have been 330 million Americans / 75 million receiving Medicaid benefits. All Americans vs all the Americans receiving Medicaid. Working people vs everybody receiving Medicaid doesn’t really make sense, at least not to me.

        1. LarrytheG Avatar
          LarrytheG

          It’s arguable… we could tally up free&reduced, food stamps, TANF, section 8 housing, etc… to get a number…

          or this (in 2015) : ” 21.3 Percent of U.S. Population Participates in Government Assistance Programs Each Month”

          census[dot]gov/newsroom/press-releases/2015/cb15-97.html

          or this – ” About half the births in the United States are paid for by Medicaid — a figure higher than previous estimates — and the numbers could increase as the state-federal health insurance program expands under the Affordable Care Act,”

          https://khn.org/news/nearly-half-of-u-s-births-are-covered-by-medicaid-study-finds/#:~:text=While%20previous%20research%20has%20estimated,45%20percent%20of%20births%20were

  13. LarrytheG Avatar
    LarrytheG

    Here’s Fairfax – any idea why there is such a huge disparity
    in Grade 3 SOL reading pass rates between schools?

    Hutchison Elem 28.04
    Mount Eagle Elem 29.41
    Dogwood Elem 35.9
    Graham Road Elem 36.84
    Weyanoke Elem 38.16
    Lynbrook Elem 38.57
    Bailey’s Upper Elem School for the Arts and Sciences 38.85
    Brookfield Elem 40.57
    Pine Spring Elem 40.85
    Herndon Elem 43.75
    Crestwood Elem 44.12
    Glen Forest Elem 45.86
    Riverside Elem 47.54
    Westlawn Elem 48.08
    Woodlawn Elem 48.28
    Cameron Elem 48.48
    Groveton Elem 48.6
    Hybla Valley Elem 49.26
    Braddock Elem 50
    Mount Vernon Woods Elem 50
    Annandale Terrace Elem 50.55
    Garfield Elem 50.94
    Washington Mill Elem 51.32
    Centre Ridge Elem 52.48
    Deer Park Elem 52.5
    Parklawn Elem 53.16
    Woodburn Elem 53.85
    Rose Hill Elem 53.95
    Cunningham Park Elem 54.72
    Belle View Elem 55.74
    Providence Elem 56.25
    Dranesville Elem 56.52
    Forest Edge Elem 56.52
    Hollin Meadows Elem 56.67
    Woodley Hills Elem 56.92
    Gunston Elem 57.14
    Sleepy Hollow Elem 58.33
    Virginia Run Elem 58.44
    Timber Lane Elem 59.04
    Beech Tree Elem 59.18
    Coates Elem 60.87
    Newington Forest Elem 60.94
    London Towne Elem 61.74
    Eagle View Elem 62.03
    Lake Anne Elem 62.12
    Fort Belvoir Elem 63.08
    Halley Elem 63.41
    Daniels Run Elem 63.64
    Greenbriar East Elem 63.7
    Forestdale Elem 63.79
    Saratoga Elem 63.86
    Bren Mar Park Elem 64.79
    Cardinal Forest Elem 64.86
    Freedom Hill Elem 64.91
    Westgate Elem 65.22
    Clearview Elem 65.85
    Centreville Elem 66.67
    Olde Creek Elem 67.35
    Franconia Elem 69.23
    Terraset Elem 69.23
    Rolling Valley Elem 70.89
    Lorton Station Elem 71.01
    Marshall Road Elem 71.29
    Hunters Woods Elem School for the Arts and Sciences 71.72
    Bull Run Elem 72.03
    Shrevewood Elem 72.16
    Kings Park Elem 72.22
    Mason Crest Elem 72.29
    Island Creek Elem 72.41
    Bucknell Elem 72.73
    Bonnie Brae Elem 72.82
    Columbia Elem 74.32
    Cub Run Elem 74.32
    Laurel Hill Elem 75.21
    Ravensworth Elem 75.61
    Fairhill Elem 75.64
    Stratford Landing Elem 76.32
    Union Mill Elem 76.52
    Aldrin Elem 77.08
    Fairfax Villa Elem 77.42
    Camelot Elem 77.53
    West Springfield Elem 77.61
    Hayfield Elem 78
    North Springfield Elem 78.08
    Floris Elem 78.63
    Lees Corner Elem 78.9
    Belvedere Elem 79.71
    Fairview Elem 79.82
    Fort Hunt Elem 80
    Vienna Elem 80
    Lane Elem 80.21
    Terra Centre Elem 80.25
    Orange Hunt Elem 80.27
    Powell Elem 80.33
    Forestville Elem 80.46
    White Oaks Elem 80.7
    Lemon Road Elem 80.85
    Little Run Elem 81.08
    Armstrong Elem 81.48
    Bush Hill Elem 81.61
    Oak View Elem 81.82
    Waples Mill Elem 82.09
    Clermont Elem 82.28
    Laurel Ridge Elem 82.3
    Fox Mill Elem 83.33
    Willow Springs Elem 83.44
    Stenwood Elem 83.54
    Hunt Valley Elem 84.16
    Cherry Run Elem 84.21
    Waynewood Elem 84.69
    Churchill Road Elem 84.75
    McNair Elem 84.97
    Canterbury Woods Elem 85.07
    Westbriar Elem 85.5
    Greenbriar West Elem 85.84
    Crossfield Elem 86.59
    Oak Hill Elem 86.61
    Springfield Estates Elem 87.23
    Silverbrook Elem 87.83
    Navy Elem 87.86
    Wakefield Forest Elem 88.37
    Chesterbrook Elem 88.46
    Kent Gardens Elem 88.57
    Mantua Elem 88.75
    Sunrise Valley Elem 88.89
    Flint Hill Elem 89
    Mosby Woods Elem 89.51
    Archer Elem 89.92
    Wolftrap Elem 91.01
    Colvin Run Elem 91.11
    Great Falls Elem 92
    Spring Hill Elem 92.77
    Keene Mill Elem 92.81
    Poplar Tree Elem 92.93
    Sherman Elem 93.02
    Haycock Elem 93.84
    Oakton Elem 94.64
    Sangster Elem 94.81

    1. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
      James Wyatt Whitehead V

      Some of the disparity is zip code Mr. Larry. Hutchinson Elementary serves a poor working class neighborhood along infamous Alabama Drive in Herndon. Many migrants from El Salvador and Central America. Sangster Elementary is very different. Affluent cul de sac neighborhoods of southern Fairfax County and home to many south Asians (college educated/high income/intact families).

      1. idiocracy Avatar
        idiocracy

        Only in Northern Virginia do houses in a poor working class neighborhood sell for upwards of $200 a square foot.

        Sad part is that many of those folks could make just as much money in metro areas where the housing prices aren’t as high.

        1. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
          James Wyatt Whitehead V

          Herndon is a diverse place but ethnicity/etc is cut up by neighborhoods and blocks. Alabama Drive neighborhood was cutting edge 1970s contemporary and affordable. Poor man’s old school Reston. This block did not age well and the influx of migrants from Central America changed everything. High density and multiple families in one residence. Shopping and restaurants reflect this neighborhood. Go south 6 blocks to Frying Pan Road and it is all south asian. Nice townhouses and condos. The shopping center over there reflects that nieghborhood. Go up to Elden and Monroe Streets and it is old school Herndon that all most has a Mayberry feel to it. This is the part of town that controls the politics and the machine of town government. I think that will change but it has not yet and Herndon has been as described for long time now.

        2. djrippert Avatar
          djrippert

          Not really.

          First, “only in Northern Virginia …” Go to SanFrancisco, Boston, New York City, Seattle … As far as I can tell, every urban area which has experienced significant growth has also experienced significant housing cost increases.

          Second, ” … make as much money …” Not really. Wage inflation follows housing inflation. Try getting a good paying clerical job in Buffalo. Or try to make as much money in Erie as a plumber as you can make in Reston as a plumber.

          I’m not sure where NoVa ranks on the “workingman’s wages vs costs” spectrum when compared to other fast growing metro areas but one would have to compare those metros before making the claims you made in your comment.

      2. Reed Fawell 3rd Avatar
        Reed Fawell 3rd

        A beautiful description of reality in Herdon by James Whitehead. Hopefully, there, all those recent immigrants are on their way to achieving the American dream, via its melting pot. But, if a race grievance culture creeps into Herndon and gains a strong foothold and then a tipping point there, the reverse will happen in Herndon, a balkanization of Herdon. The American Dream then will be destroyed in Herndon for those who cling to their race for grievance, anger, segregation and solidarity. And this will harm the American Dream for all Americans as well.

        Like I said, Larry and his ilk think a money problem and systemic racism stand in the way of our educating disadvantaged kids for success.

        Others, including myself, believe that cultural and ideological, and social and political problems of governance (breeding racism, envy and anger), stand in the way of building and operating systems that educate all children, including disadvantaged kids, for success. And that history proves this again and again.

        As a corollary:

        I believe that race has nothing to do with the obstacles to educating disadvantaged children in America. That this holds true except only to the extent that some use the false claim of racism, including systemic racism, based on skin color, as a weapon to claim a child’s inherent disadvantage in learning, and in gaining an education for success, in America.

        Typically, in modern times, it takes three generations for the melting pot to do most of its magic. The town of Herndon would make for a wonderful study of the melting pot’s success.

      3. TBill Avatar
        TBill

        We live in Sangster area and my grandkids go there (virtually of course). I am not the expert, but Sangster is some sort of a regional magnate grade school that you have to apply and qualify to get into. Otherwise you would go to your normal neighborhood grade school. In our case, Sangster is in the neighborhood, but still normally I think the kids would go somewhere else unless their parents applied for Sangster.

  14. LarrytheG Avatar
    LarrytheG

    yes. It’s just striking that there is such a range in the SOL scores between the schools – including the wealthy districts. It’s not only that they have very low SOL scores at some schools (in the 40-50’s) but other schools in that same district, are among the top scoring in the state – with reading SOL scores in the 90’s.

  15. LarrytheG Avatar
    LarrytheG

    So kids – of any race – who cannot read well by the 3rd grade , cannot pass the SOLS – what do we do? give up?

  16. LarrytheG Avatar
    LarrytheG

    When I posted the elementary schools and their 3rd grade SOL reading scores for Henrico then Fairfax – they did not reflect race – just the school and it’s 3rd grade students.

    And it shows a large disparity between schools.

    And so there are two questions:

    1. – what is the reason for the disparity?

    2. – what should we do for the kids that failed 3rd grade reading?

    As per Jim Sherlock – nothing about race …

    but questions about what to do about it.

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