Peace, Love and Tolerance at W&M

Although she passionately believed in the right to life when she entered the College of William & Mary, 

Skyler Culbertson describes herself as “borderline liberal” and politically uninvolved. The past two years, however, have radicalized her.

In a Hot Air podcast she says:  “I was like, oh my gosh, indoctrination is not just a right-wing talking point — it’s real! And ever since then, I pretty much changed. Now I consider myself pretty much like a MAGA Republican, about as far right as you can get, all thanks to the craziness of William and Mary and the liberals.”

In Hot Air and College Fix, she tells how she has been called a “threat to humanity,” has been cyber-stalked, received an oblique death threat, and routinely gets obscene hate messages. Her foes tear down her flyers. In one incident, a student threw a cup of urine at her fellow right-to-lifers manning an information table.

The administration’s response?

“Every time that I’ve run into an issue, I’ve met with a dean on several occasions, and he normally just directs me right to the police department…. It seems like the administration at William and Mary is not really doing anything,” she told Hot Air. “And it’s unacceptable.”

That’s just one person’s story, of course. It may be atypical — Culbertson is that rare individual who makes her positions known and refuses to be intimidated. She doesn’t shrink from making herself a target.

Most conservative students — and I have been talking to many in my day job as executive director of The Jefferson Council at the University of Virginia — deal with leftist intolerance by keeping their opinions to themselves. They parrot professors’ political views in class or refrain from speaking. They retreat from public spaces, shrink from engaging with students they don’t know, and confide their conservative views only to friends they trust.

William & Mary alumni, where the hell are you?

Are you OK with the campus environment at W&M? Is that the intellectual climate you remember when you were there? Are you going to stand by silently as a once-great institution decays into an indoctrination center? At least the victims of Mao’s Red Guards weren’t charged $30,000 a year in tuition and fees when they shipped “enemies of the people” off to re-education camps — today’s parents of college kids pay for the privilege.

Get involved, W&M alumni! Join the alumni rebellion. The Jefferson Council and our friends at VMI, Washington & Lee, and James Madison University will show you how to get organized.


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88 responses to “Peace, Love and Tolerance at W&M”

  1. Eric the half a troll Avatar
    Eric the half a troll

    “Every time that I’ve run into an issue, I’ve met with a dean on several occasions, and he normally just directs me right to the police department…”

    Seems like pretty good advice. What did the police say…?

  2. William O'Keefe Avatar
    William O’Keefe

    She entered W&M as a borderline liberal and now is a MAGA republican. Well, the leftist at W&M have a strategy that helps republicans recruit. They need all the help that they can get.
    The leadership of the University should be ashamed if it is not doing anything to promote tolerance and open debate.

    1. Teddy007 Avatar

      She entered W&M as a community college transfer. So she showed up as a junior while the vast majority of students had already been there two years. Yet, she jumped into politics without knowing the culture.

      1. William O'Keefe Avatar
        William O’Keefe

        That’s a very weak defense for how she was treated.

        1. Teddy007 Avatar

          I have tried twice to explain why most of the students detest her. Both posts have been deleted by a moderator. It is hard to discuss abortion without discussing the misogyny and sexual puratism of the social conservative right.

          1. William O'Keefe Avatar
            William O’Keefe

            She is entitled to free speech and anyone who says that they defend the Constitution has to be able to respect her right as long as she stays within legal bounds.

          2. Teddy007 Avatar

            She has free speech. However, she is not entitled to not experiencing any push back. She can have her booth and people can use their free speech to tell her that she is an idiot and to leave them alone. When one wants to control the healthcare and sexuality of others, one should be prepared for a huge pushback.

      2. Why should anyone have to “know the culture” of a college in the United States before having and/or expressing political opinions?

        1. Teddy007 Avatar

          The smaller the college the narrower the culture. Look it up. If one wants a college without a specific culture, go to the largest state university possible where there will 10 of everything. Going to a small college without a college of engineering or college of agriculture means that the median student would be more liberal. That means that if one wants to convince those students to change their opinion on abortion, one cannot use the same pictures or saying that one uses at a CPAC conference.

  3. Teddy007 Avatar

    She also advocated from removing emergency contraception from the on campus health center. Once again, taking something away from others always creates push back.

    https://campusreform.org/article?id=20515

    1. And is that ‘pushback’ acceptable to you when it is leftist “progressives” trying to take things away from other people?

      For the record, I do not support removing emergency contraception from campus health centers, nor do I support making death threats against those who do support removing emergency contraception from campus health centers.

      1. Teddy007 Avatar

        Perceived as a death threat. No call to the police, no reason to take it seriously. She is for life starts at conception, no abortion, no emergency contraception, no IVF, and banning many forms of birth control. She is telling the women on campus that they are second class citizens and are subordinate to any pregnancy that they may have. Of course, she should expect push back and should not be playing the victim card.

        1. I did not say anyone received a death threat. I said I do not favor issuing death threats to people who disagree with me.

          RE: She is for life starts at conception, no abortion, no emergency contraception, no IVF, and banning many forms of birth control.

          Okay. Those are her beliefs. What do you propose doing about it?

          RE: She is telling the women on campus that they are second class citizens and are subordinate to any pregnancy that they may have.

          Will you please provide, or provide links to, at least one instance of this young lady “telling the women on campus” these dreadful things?

          Finally, perhaps you thought your little distractions would lead to me forgetting that you did not answer my question. Alas, they did not. Will you please be so kind as to answer my question?

          Is ‘pushback’ acceptable to you when leftist “progressives” are trying to take things away from other people?

        2. I did not say anyone received a death threat. I said I do not favor issuing death threats to people who disagree with me on emergency contraception.

          RE: She is for life starts at conception, no abortion, no emergency contraception, no IVF, and banning many forms of birth control.

          Okay. Those are her beliefs. What do you propose doing about it?

          RE: She is telling the women on campus that they are second class citizens and are subordinate to any pregnancy that they may have.

          Will you please provide, or provide links to, at least one instance of this young lady “telling the women on campus” these dreadful things?

          Finally, perhaps you thought your little distractions would lead to me forgetting that you did not answer my question. Alas, they did not. Will you please be so kind as to answer my question?

          Is ‘pushback’ acceptable to you when leftist “progressives” are trying to take things away from other people?

          1. Teddy007 Avatar

            She sat at a booth on campus handing out information that abortion is murder and that life begins at conception. Read the article. That some people pushed back when she is out there trying to “sell her ideas” shows that she is really no interested in politics.

          2. Instead of continuing to justify the ‘pushback’ this young woman is receiving for espousing her beliefs, will you please just answer my original question?

          3. You persist in justifying the ‘pushback’ against this young person, while still neglecting to answer my simple question.

            Have a nice day!

          4. By the way, people sit in booths and stand at protests on a regular basis all over this country holding signs and handing out literature that accuse me of enabling and supporting murder.

            Do you know what I do?

            I ignore them.

          5. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            If you’re so frail in your beliefs that the mere utterance of a point contrary sends you into a stark raving mad state, because you aren’t secure in your beliefs.

            Counterspeech Doctrine has been the law of the land since 1927, instead of shouting down and or cancelling someone with ideas you believe to be wrong, try that.

          6. Teddy007 Avatar

            Pushback in acceptable to progressives as progressives have been mocked for their rioting, their call for de-policing, their call for ending incarceration.

          7. Excellent. Thank you.

            It still doesn’t tell me what you think, but at least it’s a partial answer.

  4. Donald Smith Avatar
    Donald Smith

    Here’s another idea. Everyone—all taxpayers—can insist that state education monies be directed to the community college systems. State higher education systems should focus on training young people in the skills the state’s society and economy needs.

    If someone wants to be woke, they can go to a private school. Or, the state can designate a few woke-friendly schools (like UVa) that cater to progressives, people who wish to pursue high-paying careers (medicine, engineering), or people who really really want a four-year degree. Then, the state can charge hefty fees to attend those woke-friendly schools. The students at those schools will either earn enough after they graduate to pay off their student loans, or figure out some way to get tagged as a member of the ever-growing number of “oppressed” classes in American society. In which case Democrats will conjure some way for the taxpayers to pay.

    Either way, it’s a way to contain those people. It would be nice if every citizen could get a cheap four-year degree. But that takes resources (especially money), which are in short supply. What’s more important—a steady supply of policemen, firemen, teachers and nurses….or a steady supply of touchy activists with a diploma but few marketable skills. Seems to me that state governments are obliged to choose Option 1.

  5. She is entitled to her views without harassment. Additionally, if F%$& UVA is free speech, so are her posters. They should not be taken down.

    With that said, she doesn’t appear to represent the views of even most Republicans.
    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/4b24ad73c8d0e208cba3571689dda1794eef1dfddcf77f6dd399c1b88fffc8e2.jpg

    1. Stephen Haner Avatar
      Stephen Haner

      As I said, politically the GOP has walked into trouble with this issue. Those who actually favor a middle ground position, with abortion available in the early stages (15 – 20 weeks), will never get traction because so many other Republicans and the states they control are going hard for the six-week bill, or are now applauding the decision on the abortifacient drug. The statement “Republicans will ban abortion” can no longer be dismissed as not legally possible. Ironically, of the GOP presidential frontrunners, Trump may recognize this more than the others!

    2. Stephen Haner Avatar
      Stephen Haner

      As I said, politically the GOP has walked into trouble with this issue. Those who actually favor a middle ground position, with abortion available in the early stages (15 – 20 weeks), will never get traction because so many other Republicans and the states they control are going hard for the six-week bill, or are now applauding the decision on the abortifacient drug. The statement “Republicans will ban abortion” can no longer be dismissed as not legally possible. Ironically, of the GOP presidential frontrunners, Trump may recognize this more than the others!

      If this is the only issue where a conservative position gets you harassed on that campus, wouldn’t that be nice. I suspect it is not. Controversy on that is to be expected. Given the nearby brewery, what’s up with Bud Light sales? 🙂 NOT an issue from 50 years ago. 🙂

      1. Randy Huffman Avatar
        Randy Huffman

        I believe Youngkin recognizes the moderate view as he has publicly stated he would support/sign a bill banning abortions after 15 weeks, even 20.

      2. Yuck! There are plenty of breweries near W&M that are far better than A-B.

        I would hope that the students of W&M have good enough taste in beer that Bud Light sales are low and will remain low in Williamsburg, regardless of any recent “woke” trans-controversy.

      3. What is most unfortunate is the media driven perception that only Republicans have an extreme wing on this issue.

        Democrats, not only have an extreme wing, it largely controls how they vote. Survivors of botched abortions have even testified before Congress on various occasions, yet they can’t recognize that such babies are human? That’s pretty extreme, and certainly not the view of most Americans. Yet they get away with it.

        “210 Democrats vote against bill requiring medical care for babies born alive after abortion attempt”

        https://www.foxnews.com/politics/democrats-vote-against-bill-requiring-medical-care-babies-born-alive-abortion-attempt

  6. VaNavVet Avatar

    Not sure that a comparison to Mao’s Red Guards is the best recruiting pitch nor that a self-proclaimed MAGA Republican is the most reliable source of information. What the heck at least JAB is attempting to earn his salary. It does appear that being a “radical conservative” is a difficult row to till at UVA, but isn’t that what being a radical is about?

    1. Eric the half a troll Avatar
      Eric the half a troll

      JAB seems to leave out the Ed Morrissey show reference…

  7. Stephen Haner Avatar
    Stephen Haner

    Jim, I read the posted article (haven’t listened to the other report) and it seems to confirm my thesis that it is the students who are behaving like jerks toward her, especially in anonymous social media, and perhaps not the faculty. Passions on the abortion issue have been high, to the point of violence on both sides, my whole life. That’s not recent at all. She reports they had their meeting or whatever with security present and it was without incident. Did I miss something?

    I’m not going back to campus to fight the battles. I was in the political minority in the 1970s and got an excellent education. The rhetorical skills were honed there and then and I use them to skewer folks still. 🙂

    1. walter smith Avatar
      walter smith

      Come on… Violence on both sides?
      Given how media “frames” “narratives,” I now wonder about the few over the decades I heard about over the so-called anti-abortionists.

      Meanwhile, today? It seems daily. Set fire in a church and attack a statue of Mary? Merrick Garland gives you a pass. Pray at an abortion clinic and move the maniac screaming at your 12 year old away from the kid’s face? Full force of the federal government, even after Philly DA declined to prosecute. Kavanaugh family would be assassin? Trans manifesto in Knoxville?

      The law is the law. When you prosecute unfairly one side, and don’t prosecute the other, you get the mania we have today.

      UVA suspends fraternities for having a “rush” function prior to UVA permitted rush. UVA doesn’t prosecute the shooter for his alleged fraternity violations (probably because of his race). W&M doesn’t do similar enforcement of silly college rule violations? But throwing urine at students is solely a police matter? Yes the kids are the problem. And the adults not enforcing standards equally is also part of the problem. (And because the administrators agree with the bad actors, and know if they condemn the bad acts, their academic careers will be cut off, so they defer to “the police.”)

      1. Stephen Haner Avatar
        Stephen Haner

        Uh, clinics have been bombed, providers murdered. Doesn’t count as violence with you? Extremists on both sides are not new. The pro-life movement was strong in its condemnation when those incidents happened, but they happened. America enjoyed a long, uneasy peace around the compromise of Roe/Casey. Republicans wanted to start this war again. It’s on. We’ll lose it.

        1. James Wyatt Whitehead Avatar
          James Wyatt Whitehead

          The Society of Family Planning reports 32,000 fewer abortions from July to December 2022. Surely that is worth something?
          https://www.societyfp.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/WeCountReport_April2023Release.pdf

        2. walter smith Avatar
          walter smith

          A handful of incidents over 50 years vs near daily Leftist outrages? Whataboutism misplaced there.
          The problem with Roe was judicial usurpation of the federal democratic process. Also, should opposition to slavery have stopped with Dred Scott? What if the “fetus” is a human life? Should terminating that life be abhorrent?

  8. Stephen Haner Avatar
    Stephen Haner

    I hope that the William and Mary faculty continues to include people like the conservative voices I ran across almost 50 years ago, if not as many at least some. (I give you Ludwell Johnson!) I would hope that debate and dissent are welcomed. I would hope students are not punished in class if they dispute the Revealed Truth of the Left as preached at them, but rather encouraged to build their cases with facts and argument. That matters more to me than social media bullies. I do not know if that is the case. It was the case a while back when, to cross pollinate another post, W&M students seeking to protest that TJ statue used post-it notes, very polite and easy to remove. Who can whine about that? When I arrived in 1972, “Free Bobby Seale” was still spray painted on a wall on the Old Campus. Everything old is new again….

    Perhaps it was the lack of social media that made it easier to be in the minority on campus who actually voted for Nixon. 🙂

  9. Posted on behalf of Bob Kaplan; William & Mary AB History ’69 and JD ’72:

    I am the patriarch of a nuclear family with seven (7) W&M degrees. I no longer make any contributions to the university or the Law School and will not until Katherine Rowe and her woke administration educrats are gone and balance returns to the faculty.

    Ms. Culbertson is a heroine and a model for her generation of students.

    Where are the Alumni? You got me by the neck. My only explanation is that given the idyllic nature of the Old Campus and the College as we know it before the reign of terror began, they are immersed in nostalgia, preferring to believe the propaganda and deception that spews from the Alumni Society, rather than their lying eyes!

    1. Charles D'Aulnais Avatar
      Charles D’Aulnais

      Or, maybe you’re in the minority of.the alumni? Or, even just wrong.

      https://news.wm.edu/2022/07/21/william-mary-raises-77m-and-is-the-no-1-public-in-the-us-for-alumni-giving/

    2. Bob Kaplan has a bad judge of character if he thinks “Ms. Culbertson is a heroine and a model for her generation of students”. Yes, harassing students, casual racism/transphobia/homophobia, whataboutism, and perpetual martyrdom is model behavior. What has Bob done for people who can’t afford a child? Jack I imagine. But it’s easier to run his mouth and call people woke instead of actually doing something meaningful. W&M doesn’t need money from someone who blindly condones her horrible behavior after reading her biased sob story.

      Edit: Did some digging around in Kaplan’s political donation history and saw a bunch of xenophobic and proudly anti-LGBT politicians listed. How shocking.

      1. Rocket, you’re new to the blog, so you’ll get a warning: No profanity, and no ad hominem attacks. Another violation, and you’ll be suspended. Another violation after that, and you could be banned. Simple solution: Refrain from profanity and personal insults. — JAB

        1. Not really ad-hominem. It was definitely on topic. And I think the people reading the comments have a right to know that this isn’t some alumni who’s suddenly changed his mind because stuff has gone too far (like how you were framing it) – he’s always been like this.

          He calls her a model for students of her generation. He attacks the other students and admin of the school. And yet he does nothing to actual deal with the problem he seems concerned about. So easy for wealthy people to run their mouths and attack the school and it’s students, but I’d love to know what he’s done to help mothers who feel like they would need an abortion personally. Same thing holds for Tribe for Life – Vox does far more to take care of women who are concerned about pregnancy. T4L just tells them the only option is birth, and has actively fought against the school providing contraceptives and birth control and menstrual products.

          Also woke is basically a conservative slur at this point so I think if that’s cool than the s-word is definitely fair game. It’s also basically a personal insult at this point.

        2. Not really ad-hominem. It was definitely on topic. And I think the people reading the comments have a right to know that this isn’t some alumni who’s suddenly changed his mind because stuff has gone too far (like how you were framing it) – he’s always been like this.

          He calls her a model for students of her generation. He attacks the other students and admin of the school. And yet he does nothing to actual deal with the problem he seems concerned about. So easy for wealthy people to run their mouths and attack the school and it’s students and talk about donations, but I’d love to know what he’s done to help mothers who feel like they would need an abortion personally (with the money he’s apparently not sending to W&M). Same thing holds for Tribe for Life – Vox does far more to take care of women who are concerned about pregnancy. T4L just tells them the only option is birth, and has actively fought against the school providing contraceptives and birth control and menstrual products.

          Also woke is basically a conservative slur at this point so I think if that’s cool than the s-word is definitely fair game. It’s also basically a personal insult at this point.

          1. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            Learn the difference between ad hom and strawman then post a retort. As it stands Bacon was and is correct, your comment is run-on ad hom attack on the the author. If you disagree with his opinion, instead of attacking the person, attack the argument. Oh and open a book on logical fallacies.

            “Ad hominem attacks can take the form of overtly attacking somebody, or more subtly casting doubt on their character or personal attributes as a way to discredit their argument. The result of an ad hom attack can be to undermine someone’s case without actually having to engage with it.”

          2. Charles D'Aulnais Avatar
            Charles D’Aulnais

            “Katherine Rowe and her woke administration educrats”

            “… it before the reign of terror began, they are immersed in nostalgia, preferring to believe the propaganda and deception that spews from the Alumni Society, rather than their lying eyes!”

            Tone set?

          3. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            Not at all, because you’re cherry picking statements. The poster’s response was a run-on ad hom, to which the poster was called and said it wasn’t because it was on topic. Being on topic or not has zero impact on an ad hom, so it can be concluded the poster doesn’t know what an ad hom is, why they engaged in it.

            At current, we no longer have debates. We can look to Congress as example of that, the only thing engaged in, is ad hom and hyperbole.

          4. Charles D'Aulnais Avatar
            Charles D’Aulnais

            You’re correct. Of the half dozen statements in the comment I cherry picked two. 30% certainly isn’t sufficient to set a tone. Ad hom? Or, just scurrilous? Certainly not advancing the narrative.

            BTW, I didn’t realize there was a commenting service available for those who can’t sign-in to a BR account for some reason. Pretty cool.

          5. Charles D'Aulnais Avatar
            Charles D’Aulnais

            You’re correct. Of the half dozen statements in the comment I cherry picked two. 30% certainly isn’t sufficient to set a tone. Ad hom? Or, just scurrilous? Certainly not advancing the narrative.

            BTW, I didn’t realize there was a commenting service available for those who can’t sign-in to a BR account for some reason. Pretty cool.

          6. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            “You’re correct. Of the half dozen statements in the comment I cherry picked two. 30% certainly isn’t sufficient to set a tone. Ad hom? Or, just scurrilous? Certainly not advancing the narrative.”

            All you’re engaging in, is an exercise in justification bad behavior.

            “BTW, I didn’t realize there was a commenting service available for those who can’t sign-in to BR account for some reason. Pretty cool.”

            Relevance and commenting is done through disqus.

          7. Charles D'Aulnais Avatar
            Charles D’Aulnais

            A difference without distinction. A sign-in being the relevant feature. With whom is inconsequential.

          8. I’ve already commented about exactly why Skylar is not a victim. No point in restating that again. I just don’t appreciate the very deliberate false portrayal of Kaplan being some alumni who finally broke after the school went too far.

          9. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            “I’ve already commented about exactly why Skylar is not a victim. No point in restating that again. I just don’t appreciate the very deliberate false portrayal of Kaplan being some alumni who finally broke after the school went too far.”

            This is an example of a strawman. What contained in my comment made any of those statements? None, which is why it’s clear you don’t have any understanding of fallacies.

          10. Clearly you did not read Kaplan’s statement. “Ms. Culbertson is a heroine and a model for her generation of students.” I already made a comment pointing out exactly why she is not a heroine, and why she isn’t being mistreated by students and admin. And you said “If you disagree with his opinion, instead of attacking the person, attack the argument.” So not at all a strawman.

            You can frame your whole “you don’t know logical fallacies” thing however you want but it’s basically just becoming a personal attack at this point. Notice how, instead of engaging with what I actually pointed out about either Skylar or Kaplan, you’ve instead spent a ton of time telling me I’m illogical.

          11. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            Again, you are generating a strawman. I’ve not commented on the individuals statement or otherwise. Pointing out you’re making ad and strawmen attacks doesn’t require me to do so.

            “You can frame your whole “you don’t know logical fallacies” thing however you want but it’s basically just becoming a personal attack at this point. Notice how, instead of engaging with what I actually pointed out about either Skylar or Kaplan, you’ve instead spent a ton of time telling me I’m illogical.”

            What is clear is that you have zero idea of what an ad hom attack is or any other logical fallacy for that matter.

            Using a logical fallacy doesn’t make someone “illogical”, that’s not how it works.

            I’ve made at this point 3 comments, so you can drop the hyperbole. Which at this juncture is the lion’s share of your comments.

          12. That’s not a strawman. You specifically told me to attack Kaplan’s argument and I already have. How about you actually contribute to the discussion of the article at hand instead of continuing to attack me?

            And now it’s 4! We don’t care. You clearly have nothing of value to say or otherwise you’d get over this train of thought already. Get over yourself. Attacking the style of people’s arguments and comments doesn’t make them any less valid, so I don’t know why you’re still at this.

          13. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            Yes, yes it is.

            “an intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent’s real argument.”

            In the comment to which I posted, you attacked the poster. To which you refuted and outed yourself as not knowing what constitutes a strawman.

            Pointing out your fallacious behavior, isn’t an attack.

            “And now it’s 4! We don’t care.”

            So I presume you’ve got a mouse in your pocket?

            “Get over yourself. Attacking the style of people’s arguments and comments doesn’t make them any less valid, so I don’t know why you’re still at this.”

            You’re not making an argument, you’re attacking the author (ad hom), it’s not a style of debate. It’s fallacious reasoning, which constitutes nothing but your hatred for the author.

            You’ve spent a vast majority of your comments attacking the author as well as the subject, to point where you’re justifying bad behavior.

            My opinion is a simple one, either engage in a civil manner or don’t engage. It’s called counterspeech doctrine, read about it.

          14. His real argument was a bunch of woke mumbo jumbo hyperbole. I’m not arguing against someone who has to use a made up essentially psuedo-slur to make his point. Whenever someone has to throw out buzzwords, that does a good job of invalidating it. It’s unfair to say that we have to treat these hyperbolic statements as a legitimate good faith argument. And you can’t defeat arguments that use made up words and hyperbole as their basis

            Inherently the real issue with Kaplan’s position is that he read one article (which, despite it being written by here, I would argue makes it pretty clear that she’s the instigator), didn’t bother to look for any other perspectives and proceeded to baselessly attack the W&M admin and alumni association based on one girl’s account. I don’t hate the author, I dislike his blind belief of anything that supports his political views, and I obviously dislike the people he votes for.

            My argument was that the author was wrongfully presented as a moderate, a victim of the so called woke left, someone who was recently ostracized to the school versus someone who’s always held values contrary to what the school has always believed. He is not. This is the same thing that happened with the whole McGlothlin/Wren Cross scenario. People treated him too like a moderate, and then it came out that he gave a racist speech at the law school. Why are we treating bad people as victims? If W&M ostracizing donors was a legitimate issue, you’d think there would be more evidence than just a couple people with more extremist and exclusionary views.

          15. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            “His real argument was a bunch of woke mumbo jumbo hyperbole. I’m not arguing against someone who has to use a made up essentially psuedo-slur to make his point. Whenever someone has to throw out buzzwords, that does a good job of invalidating it. It’s unfair to say that we have to treat these hyperbolic statements as a legitimate good faith argument. And you can’t defeat arguments that use made up words and hyperbole as their basis”

            Another prime example of an ad hom attack.

            Life isn’t fair, get a helmet.

            “Inherently the real issue with Kaplan’s position is that he read one article (which, despite it being written by here, I would argue makes it pretty clear that she’s the instigator)”

            Justification for bad behavior.

            “I don’t hate the author, I dislike his blind belief of anything that supports his political views, and I obviously dislike the people he votes for.”

            You should find a mirror.

            “My argument was that the author was wrongfully presented as a moderate, a victim of the so called woke left, someone who was recently ostracized to the school versus someone who’s always held values contrary to what the school has always believed. He is not. This is the same thing that happened with the whole McGlothlin/Wren Cross scenario. People treated him too like a moderate, and then it came out that he gave a racist speech at the law school. Why are we treating bad people as victims? If W&M ostracizing donors was a legitimate issue, you’d think there would be more evidence than just a couple people with more extremist and exclusionary views.”

            No, what your argument is that you don’t like her point of view and rather than debate or have a civil discussion you’re okay with “has been cyber-stalked, received an oblique death threat, and routinely gets obscene hate messages”, which you’ve made abundantly clear in all your posts. That’s neither civil, or adult behavior. So frankly your opinion on the matter is moot.

          16. That’s literally not ad hominin. His statement was full of buzzwords and hyperbole and fear mongering, and it’s ridiculous that you expect anyone to treat those statements as good faith and worth debating. We as a society need to stop letting people treat that as genuine debatable conversation.

            “You should find a mirror.” I actually go to W&M so I have both perspectives. Skylar transferred here last year, and Kaplan seemingly hasn’t donated since Rowe became president, so I would find it hard to believe he has anything other than the outrage articles to go off of.

            “has been cyber-stalked, received an oblique death threat, and routinely gets obscene hate messages”
            This is an insane exaggeration. She likes to be a martyr, because she thinks it gives her and her club more credibility. She has gone out of her way to isolate herself from the student body and shows them no respect at all. And then she acts surprised that people have gotten tired of 2 years of this hatred.

          17. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            Even after all this back and forth you still haven’t figured out what constitutes ad hom attack.

            No we as a society need to grow a thicker skin and stop being perpetually offended, the only cure for offensive speech is more speech.

            “”You should find a mirror.” I actually go to W&M so I have both perspectives. Skylar transferred here last year, and Kaplan seemingly hasn’t donated since Rowe became president, so I would find it hard to believe he has anything other than the outrage articles to go off of.”

            That’s has what to do with my statement? Clearly they no longer teach reasoning at W&M.

            So now you’re victim blaming got it, you’re also proving my point about championing harassment and physical harm are to those you don’t agree, how very inclusive of you.

          18. I never said it was offensive speech, it’s ridiculous and meaningless speech. Nothing he said meant anything. The basis of his argument was a made up word, hyperbole and fear mongering about the alumni association. It was not deserving of a well thought out response.

            “You should find a mirror” seemed to imply that I too only looked at one side of the argument. Which, as I pointed out was not true. If you meant something else you should have done a better job of making that clear.

            You missed the fundamental part of what I have been saying this whole time. It’s not victim blaming because she’s not a victim. She and T4L constantly harass people on campus. But when people do it back she loses it.

          19. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            “I never said it was offensive speech, it’s ridiculous and meaningless speech. Nothing he said meant anything. The basis of his argument was a made up word, hyperbole and fear mongering about the alumni association. It was not deserving of a well thought out response.”

            Um, no your comment pretty much illustrates you think what he says is offensive.

            “”You should find a mirror” seemed to imply that I too only looked at one side of the argument.”

            Not even remotely close, bud. It means you should go find the nearest mirror and look at the words you’re saying what you’re accursing others of. It’s called a lack of self-awareness because you behaving in the same manner as those you’re complaining about.

            “You missed the fundamental part of what I have been saying this whole time. It’s not victim blaming because she’s not a victim. She and T4L constantly harass people on campus. But when people do it back she loses it.”

            Full stop bud, there is without a doubt zero reason that anyone should be cyber-stalked, harassed or otherwise threatened with physical body harm because of what they say or believe, no matter how repugnant, your words indicator that because of who this person is, it’s okay. It’s not, it’s never okay.

            Oh and if you want to preach “tolerance” you should practice it and as far as your comments go, they are far from tolerant to anyone outside of who agrees with you.

          20. …someone who’s always held values contrary to what the school has always believed.

            I’m not as familiar with W&M as I’d like to be. Please explain to me what the school has always believed.

          21. The W&M community has for a long time stood for being an accepting community (even when the admin did not support these beliefs). Students and faculty were fighting for gay rights even back in the 80s. The school didn’t suddenly become “woke”, the student body has been full of social activists for a long time. I personally think the word woke is meaningless, but for him to characterize the school as suddenly woke is so ridiculous. It’s been “woke” for decades.

            https://www.wm.edu/news/stories/2014/pride-and-prejudice-lgbtq-history-at-wm123.php

          22. Thank you for the excellent explanation.

          23. Correction: You have already stated your opinion as to why you do not consider Skylar a victim. So far you have provided little in the way of evidence of the behavior you allege.

            I’m sure she annoys you and riles you up, but the fact that you do not like her is not evidence of any wrongdoing on her part.

          24. Unfortunately Instagram stories disappear after 24 hours, and (unlike T4L) I think it’s creepy to record people, so I guess it’s fair to say I don’t have any evidence. But in the end she is a student here, and the student body has countless evidence of her actions so it is what it is.

          25. Well done. You’ve started thinking of ways you can back up your assertions.

            The old “it’s true because I say it is true” argument can only take you so far – trust me I know.

            I just thought of something. How about the school newspaper? Has Ms. Culbertson ever published an article or written a letter to the editor containing some of the more inflammatory things you have heard her say? If you can think of something, please post a link.

            Keep at it. People will take you a lot more seriously if you provide your facts and opinions in a calm, measured, manner, using whatever evidence you can find to back your positions, than if all you do is aggressively ‘shout’ your opinions.

          26. I don’t think so, generally the Flat Hat tries to stay out of major debates. I’m sure some people on campus must have photos of some of her more offensive displays though.

            She and her friends have also posted nasty comments on the Flat Hat’s Instagram, but the comments got so toxic that they had to be turned off.

          27. Thanks.

          28. He attacks the other students…

            In what way did he attack students? He only used the word ‘student’ once in his comment and that was in reference to Ms. Culbertson.

            When “attacking” others’ arguments try not to exaggerate or argue beyond the facts at hand. Your criticisms will be more effective, and your positions easier to defend, if you stick to the things the person actually said (or did).

  10. The students at W&M don’t respect her because she and her group compared abortion to slavery, throw loaded statements like “Black unborn lives matter” and “Abortion is classism” out to frame people who disagree with her as racist/classist as if that counters the fact that her and her group do nothing to combat actual racism and income inequality. The group also regularly posts transphobic content social media, and use the few gay/trans talking heads (Blaire White and Scott whats-his-name) that agree with them as political props while still actively being homophobic/transphobic. Shocker that a school with a large LGBT population would be upset about this…

    She also invites outside groups onto campus who heckle the students and constantly record the people that walk by in the hopes of making a dumb libs compellation online. And she’s invited multiple problematic speakers onto campus, including one lady who went on about how “feminism sucks”, as if feminism isn’t isn’t the reason women are even allowed to go to W&M in the first place.

    She’s not a victim at all, she brings this upon herself by regularly harassing the student body and causing drama.

    Even the College Republicans don’t like T4L

  11. A few commenters have made the point that the right to free speech does not confer a right to be free from “pushback” or “consequences.” That is quite true. But none of Ms. Culbertson’s defenders suggest that she has such a right. If she wants to mix it up with the lefties, she needs to be prepared to get as good as she gives.

    But that’s not the issue I raised. The issue is the level of vitriolic directed toward her, the obscenities, the cyber-stalking, and the intimidation. If the Culbertson critics are OK with those things, come right out and say so. Those things may not constitute a violation of her First Amendment rights, but they are inconsistent with the civil exchange of views that we expect of a prestigious institution of higher education.

    I’m hearing from lefty commenters that Culbertson’s views are deemed offensive and off-putting to some and that, therefore, she deserves the treatment she’s getting. If I’m wrong about that, please clarify.

    Conversely, if lefty commenters feel that the treatment administered to Culbertson constitutes an acceptable campus culture, come out and say so.

    1. Teddy007 Avatar

      Any pro-lifer who defends deceptive crisis pregnancy centers and sidewalk counseling to then cry about being stalked or harassed is laughable.
      When the pro-lifers were shooting physicians and setting off bombs in Atlanta, those pro-lifers gave up the right to considered in a civil manner.

      1. So…. you’re conflating Culbertson’s action of setting up a booth and engaging people in conversation with pro-life extremists who shot physicians and set off bombs. Some extremists committed heinous crimes several years ago, therefore, she has no right to expect to be treated civilly today.

        I get it Teddy. I’ve got a pretty clear picture of where you’re coming from.

      2. So…. you’re conflating Culbertson’s action of setting up a booth and engaging people in conversation with pro-life extremists who shot physicians and set off bombs. Some extremists committed heinous crimes several years ago, therefore, she has no right to expect to be treated civilly today.

        I get it Teddy. I’ve got a pretty clear picture of where you’re coming from.

    2. I would suggest that if perhaps she stuck to discussing pro life beliefs in a constructive way (meaning actually doing things to help people that might have to consider abortion versus screaming at random students on the terrace outside the student union and starting arguments on social media), instead of also taking strong positions on LGBT social issues and throwing out hateful rhetoric. T4L used to be far more respected before she came along.

      I think she has pushed herself far outside the campus community by being hateful and so blatantly homophobic and transphobic
      on a campus where probably at least a third of the student body would label themselves under the LGBT umbrella. So I would argue her treatment is not seen as a violation of campus culture because nobody here thinks of her as a part of our community. She doesn’t really have any friends outside of T4L and she has made it her mission to make her whole identity that club. She has burned any bridge that would ever allow her any respect by the student body again imo.

    3. I would suggest that if perhaps she stuck to discussing pro life beliefs in a constructive way (meaning actually doing things to help people that might have to consider abortion versus screaming at random students on the terrace outside the student union and starting arguments on social media), instead of also taking strong positions on LGBT social issues and throwing out hateful rhetoric. T4L used to be far more respected before she came along.

      I think she has pushed herself far outside the campus community by being hateful and so blatantly homophobic and transphobic
      on a campus where probably at least a third of the student body would label themselves under the LGBT umbrella. So I would argue her treatment is not seen as a violation of campus culture because nobody here thinks of her as a part of our community. She doesn’t really have any friends outside of T4L and she has made it her mission to make her whole identity that club. She has burned any bridge that would ever allow her any respect by the student body again imo.

  12. Teddy007 Avatar

    Maybe someone should ask Ms. Culbertson how forcing teenage girls to carry a pregnancy to term and to care for the child is pro-family and pro-community.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/04/the-forgotten-girls-monica-potts-book-excerpt/673581/

    HOW RURAL AMERICA STEALS GIRLS’ FUTURES
    Death in a dying town

    1. Those are perfectly legitimate questions. I share the same concerns. Perhaps someone could pose them to Culbertson in a civil manner.

      1. Teddy007 Avatar

        Culbertson would rather call single women insulting names and show pictures of aborted fetuses. A policy discussion is the last thing that Culbertson really wants to have.

  13. Like I acknowledged in the post, quoting Culbertson tells only one side of the story — her side. I appreciate Rocket coming onto the blog and telling a different side. His criticisms strike me as pretty vague, but I’m sure they represent the views of a large number of students. We’re all better served when diverse points of view are expressed.

    One thing that disturbs me is the implication in this comment thread that a student has an obligation to understand the culture of an institution, with the implication that it’s the student’s responsibility to conform to that culture to some degree. Actually, I would agree with that. However, I would observe that the dictum is not very “inclusive.” The obligation to conform to university “values,” I would suggest, is applied very selectively by the very same people who tout the necessity of being inclusive.

    1. I appreciate the willingness to hear out another perspective.

      I think the one last thing I wanna throw out is that Skylar seems to frame the way she is treated as a result of her being conservative, and a lack of ideological diversity on campus. But this is simply not accurate. The College Republicans, another politically conservative club on campus are not treated similarly at all to T4L. Both the Young Democrats and Young Independents clubs host debates with them, and although I imagine most of the student body disagrees with the CRs, nobody outright hates them. They go about sharing their positions in a respectful way.

      I think we have other conservative clubs on campus too, but honestly I stay out of political clubs so that’s not something I would know much about.

      People dislike Skylar because she is unwilling to show tolerance to people in the LGBTQ community, and people who are not automatically anti abortion, and yet expects us to extend that tolerance to her.

    2. I appreciate the willingness to hear out another perspective.

      I think the one last thing I wanna throw out is that Skylar seems to frame the way she is treated as a result of her being conservative, and a lack of ideological diversity on campus. But this is simply not accurate. The College Republicans, another politically conservative club on campus are not treated similarly at all to T4L. Both the Young Democrats and Young Independents clubs host debates with them, and although I imagine most of the student body disagrees with the CRs, nobody outright hates them. They go about sharing their positions in a respectful way.

      I think we have other conservative clubs on campus too, but honestly I stay out of political clubs so that’s not something I would know much about.

      People dislike Skylar because she is unwilling to show tolerance to people in the LGBTQ community, and people who are not automatically anti abortion, and yet expects us to extend that tolerance to her.

    3. I appreciate the willingness to hear out another perspective.

      I think the one last thing I wanna throw out is that Skylar seems to frame the way she is treated as a result of her being conservative, and a lack of ideological diversity on campus. But this is simply not accurate. The College Republicans, another politically conservative club on campus are not treated similarly at all to T4L. Both the Young Democrats and Young Independents clubs host debates with them, and although I imagine most of the student body disagrees with the CRs, nobody outright hates them. They go about sharing their positions in a respectful way.

      I think we have other conservative clubs on campus too, but honestly I stay out of political clubs so that’s not something I would know much about.

      People dislike Skylar because she is unwilling to show tolerance to people in the LGBTQ community, and people who are not automatically anti abortion, and yet expects us to extend that tolerance to her.

      1. Teddy007 Avatar

        I guess when Skylar talked about becoming MAGA, she meant along the lines of MTG or Lauren Boebert.

      2. Well done! You have calmly and effectively provided information and stated your case without resorting to personal insults.

        Welcome to BR. I hope you will continue to participate.

  14. Where are the W&M alumni? Good question.

    I have worked with W&M on various projects (2011 – 2021), particularly mental health. (Tried on environment for years before that. An environmental consultant for decades wanting to help students.) In sum total, it’s a frustrating experience. And, no surprise. No practitioners reside there. Just like when I was in school. (Steve Haner’s class.) I asked about the environmental profession and no professor knew anything about what I was talking about. (This is post NEPA, 1969. Earth Day. Silent Spring.) In hindsight, it was an okay, very inexpensive education. A gateway. (Had a couple of special professors.) High school, grad school, and real life were much, much better. Again, for me.

    What’s changed since I attended W&M? It is more upscale now. Like many colleges and universities. We built resorts for kids. Gave them unlimited credit. Everyone has a car and/or wants to live off-campus but they are environmentally conscious. Sure.

    A libertarian then and still now. Always hated war with a passion. (After Viet Nam, you would have never believed the war machine we would become. Our manufacturing capacity off-shored.) Campuses? There are a monolith of one-sided opinion, with everyone claiming progressivism = open-mindedness. Really? (A friend taught a course there in critical thinking. The opinions remained the same, before and after the course. That’s the power of peer pressure.)

    Good luck finding refereed debate on campuses and in our culture. On any subject. (Vaccination was mandated on campus, as if The Nuremberg Code did not exist.) When I travelled and worked in Russia (1992 – 1995) and we were bragging on winning the Cold War. On the plane home from my first trip, I knew America was done. We had already become them, the former Soviet Union.

    Where are your alumni? When the students need them the most? They are aging and chillin’. (Not all. Check out W&L’s The Generals Redoubt.) That’s the answer to your question.

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