Nooses, Masks and Double Standards

by James A. Bacon

In the fall of 2022 a furtive figure was caught on videotape draping a noose around the Homer statue on the Grounds of the University of Virginia. The university administration immediately declared the act a hate crime. University police launched an investigation, enlisting the FBI to help in the search for the perpetrator. A $10,000 award was offered to anyone who could provide more information.

“The facts available indicate that this was an act intended to intimidate members of this community,” said President Jim Ryan in a letter to the community. “A noose is a recognizable and well-known symbol of violence, most closely associated with the racially motivated lynching of African Americans.”

A noose hung from a tree branch is indeed a recognizable symbol of lynching. The meaning when hung around the neck of a statue of an ancient Greek poet, however, was not self-evident (as we noted at the time). Indeed, when the offender was discovered, it turned out he hadn’t been targeting African Americans at all. Irate at how the Homer statue placed a hand on the head of a naked youth, the Albemarle County man declared that it “glorified pedophilia.” Local authorities charged him with intimidation anyway.

That was then.

Photo credit: WUVAnews.com

The day after Hamas’ October 7 terrorist assault on Israel, the Students for Justice in Palestine at UVA issued a statement  declaring that “colonized people” had the right to resist oppression “by whatever means they deem necessary.” A poster promoting the October 12 march showed a Hamas bulldozer plowing through an Israeli security fence. “Decolonization is not a metaphor,” the poster said. Later that month, SJP held two rallies on the Grounds. Marchers waved Palestinian flags and chanted, “Palestine will be free, from the river to the sea.” Some insisted that the slogan was just a call for solidarity with oppressed Palestinians, but many Jews interpreted it as advocating the eradication of the Israeli state and, in the context of the Hamas massacres, the slaughter of the Jewish population.

Ominously, many marchers also wore masks to hide their faces with the explicit aim of preventing identification. A “Walkout for Gaza” flier urged participants to “wear a mask/hat/sunglasses to protect your identity,” to “avoid wearing identifiable items such as jewelry with your name on it, and cover up recognizable tattoos, birthmarks, or piercings.” Do not, the flier stressed, “identify yourself or affiliate yourself with any organization.” 

To many Israelis and Jews, masks evoke images of jihadists and terrorists wearing keffiyehs (traditional Arab scarfs) draped around their faces to preserve their anonymity. The UVa administration expressed no concern about the masks, even though, harkening back to the suppression of the Ku Klux Klan, it has been illegal in Virginia to wear a mask to conceal one’s identity.

Section § 18.2-422 of the Code of Virginia states:

It shall be unlawful for any person over 16 years of age to, with the intent to conceal his identity, wear any mask, hood or other device whereby a substantial portion of the face is hidden or covered so as to conceal the identity of the wearer, to be or appear in any public place, or upon any private property in this Commonwealth without first having obtained from the owner or tenant thereof consent to do so in writing.

The law does provide exceptions for holiday festivities, theatrical productions, medical necessity, and occupational protection, but none of these applied to the SJP rally. UVa’s in-house policies on “protests, demonstrations and other expressive activity” do not mention the wearing of masks — even though they are common garb for left-wing militants such as Antifa as well as Palestinian sympathizers. The question of masks never arose in correspondence, obtained by The Jefferson Council through the Freedom of Information Act, in which the Palestinian rally organizers sought an event permit from UVa officials. There is no indication in that correspondence that SJP asked for, or Student Affairs granted, consent for marchers to cover their faces.

Clearly, a double standard prevails at UVa. Perceived intimidation in the form of a noose around a statue sparked swift and decisive action by the administration. Perceived intimidation in the form of masks illegally worn during a march in which hundreds chanted for the “decolonization” of Israel has inspired no response at all.

The Hamas-Israel conflict has put Ryan in an awkward position. Letters, emails and petitions have flooded the president’s office. Pressed by sympathizers of both Palestinians and Jews, Ryan studiously avoided taking sides. As we documented in an article yesterday, many Jews perceive UVa as a hostile environment. But Ryan’s most substantive action to date has been to appoint a religious diversity task force to identify religious discrimination against Jews and Muslims alike and to promote civil dialogue at UVa. In other words, despite the utter non-existence of rallies or “teach-ins” calling for violence against Palestinians or Hamas, worries about “islamophobia” share equal billing with antisemitism. Remarkably, two of eleven members of the task force openly proclaimed their bias in a faculty letter chastising Ryan for his failure to give sufficient weight in his public remarks to Palestinian suffering.

Many Jewish alumni and parents have called upon Ryan to issue a statement declaring rhetoric with genocidal overtones to be antithetical to core UVa values. He has declined. To justify his silence, Ryan has invoked two main arguments. First, anti-Zionist words are protected by free speech. Second, it’s a bad idea for university presidents to pontificate on public controversies.

Some speech is freer than others

Ryan explained the free-speech argument to a group of Jewish parents this way:

It is tempting to step in to settle things in the name of upholding the University’s values — or common decency, for that matter. But we would be threatening our fundamental commitment to free speech and to students learning from each other were we to step in.

‘Free and open inquiry inevitably involves conflicting views and strong disagreements. Indeed, some ideas may be offensive, noxious, and even harmful,’ he continued. ”The University must not stifle protected expression, permit others to obstruct or shut down such expression, or regulate the tone or content of responses that stop short of interfering with others’ speech or violating the law.’

In Ryan’s view, in other words, as much as pro-Palestinian speech might offend some members of the UVa community, people have the right to the peaceful expression of their views.

It is worth noting that he side-steps the fact that wearing masks without UVa’s express permission violates Virginia state law. But more importantly, as we argued in a recent blog post, “The Asymmetric Application of Free-Speech Principles,” Ryan invokes the free-speech argument selectively.

No one acted to protect med school student Kieren Bhattacharya’s right to free speech when he was subjected to a disciplinary process for questioning the basis for “microaggression” theory. No one defended business school prof Jeffrey Leopold when he was demonized for telling a joke that invoked stereotypes of Americans, Chinese, Russians, Europeans… and Africans. Ryan explicitly refused to clear the record of undergrad Morgan Bettinger who was wrongly accused of making an inflammatory statement about Black Lives Matter protesters, and then punished for it.

The enforcement of speech codes has been bureaucratized. UVa urges students to submit complaints of speech offenses against protected groups on its Just Report It system. Students, faculty and staff are subject to being interrogated and punished for transgressing ever-evolving standards. UVa officials respond in knee-jerk fashion if some protected group declares itself to be offended but invokes free speech if a group not enjoying official favor does.

The fact is, UVa shuts down — or allows others to shut down — speech it deems offensive. In this current controversy Ryan is using a fig leaf to cover his moral neutrality. If Jews feel demeaned and threatened, he does not consider their sensibilities to be an actionable concern.

Selective moral outrage

In making the slippery slope argument, Ryan opined that commenting on one news headline creates demand for official statements on every controversy. “To start down the road of condemning specific statements that contravene our values, as tempting as it is at times, is to start down a road that is endless,” he wrote in a letter to Jewish parents. Acting upon this conviction, Ryan launched a committee in December to devise a set of principles, akin to those listed in the University of Chicago’s Kalven Committee statement, to guide him and future UVa presidents in such matters.

Ryan’s use of slippery-slope logic is new for him. He has commented frequently in the past on acts that offended his moral sensibilities. A few examples…

In August 2018, shortly after becoming UVa president, Ryan remarked upon the Unite-the-Right rally which was still fresh in the minds of Charlottesville residents. “Like those of you who are here, I was horrified by the scenes of violence and the scenes of neo-Nazis and white supremacists marching with tiki torches. It was as alarming as it was appalling,” he said.

In June 2020, Ryan opined in a message to the University of Virginia community: “What happened to George Floyd – his callous and indifferent killing at the hands of a white police officer – was immoral and sickening…. This sort of violence against black people, including at the hands of those who are supposed to protect all of us, is sadly all too familiar and stretches back not just decades, but centuries, through the Civil Rights Era, Jim Crow, Reconstruction, and slavery.”

In March 2021, Ryan addressed the murder of eight women of Asian descent in Atlanta. “This incident is a reminder of the alarming rise and violence and harassment against the Asian-Pacific community over this past year,” he wrote on Instagram. Any attack on Asian Pacific Islander Desi Americans (APIDA) “is an attack on us all. We cannot and will not tolerate it. … That means refusing to accept the rhetoric of hatred and bigotry whenever and wherever we hear it, and working to reduce the climate of fear that can give rise to these incidents.”

Condemning hatred and bias is easy when the offenders are, or thought to be, White supremacists. It’s a lot harder when the haters are Palestinians at UVa and their allies on the left. Now that Ryan finds himself caught in an irreconcilable conflict, he wants to stay out of the fray. That is his prerogative. But if he appeals to the principles of free speech and institutional impartiality, he needs to apply those principles consistently, not just when it suits him.

James A. Bacon is executive director of The Jefferson Council. This article is republished with permission from the Jefferson Council blog.


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52 responses to “Nooses, Masks and Double Standards”

  1. Now that Ryan finds himself caught in an irreconcilable conflict, he wants to stay out of the fray. That is his prerogative. But if he appeals to the principles of free speech and institutional impartiality, he needs to apply those principles consistently, not just when it suits him.

    I agree, but in an effort to see things in as positive a light as possible I am going to give Mr. Ryan the benefit of the doubt and, for now at least, assume he has recently learned some valuable lessons about real support for free speech, and that he has genuinely adopted a new perspective on the issue.

    It will be interesting to see how Mr. Ryan reacts the next time student(s) or faculty member(s) who is/are not from the left side of the political spectrum says something he finds particularly reprehensible. I’ll find out then whether my optimism about his new perspective on free speech was justified.

    It would also be quite telling if he were to reverse his previous decision and announce that he will clear Morgan Bettinger of any/all wrongdoing related to the false claims made about her.

  2. Lefty665 Avatar

    despite the utter non-existence of rallies or “teach-ins” calling for violence against Palestinians

    AKA support for Israel and its crimes against humanity, Palestinians in particular? There have been rallies in support of Israel haven’t there?

    “Many Jewish alumni and parents have called upon Ryan to issue a
    statement declaring rhetoric with genocidal overtones to be antithetical
    to core UVa values.”

    We can all get behind that call. Palestinians especially would endorse it.

    1. Nancy Naive Avatar
      Nancy Naive

      That From the river to the sea depends entirely on the who is to be free.

    2. Nancy Naive Avatar
      Nancy Naive

      That From the river to the sea depends entirely on the who is to be free.

      1. Lefty665 Avatar

        That was originally an Israeli chant wasn’t it? Not as cute when the other side adopted it too.

        1. You have a good memory, something severely lacking within the IDF these days. They are turning an entire population of innocent civilians into radicals.

          1. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            “They are turning an entire population of innocent civilians into radicals.”

            First and foremost, they aren’t turning anything. Children are indoctrinated to hate anything that resides across the boarder. Not just the Jewish people, but the Negev Bedouin as well.

            It is the same thing that occurs in the Madrassa’s of Saudi Arabia.

          2. Lefty665 Avatar

            Gazans are “indoctrinated” by those who made armed borders to imprison them in what are essentially concentration camps, and who now drop bombs on them, killing and maiming their relatives and neighbors, destroying their homes, hospitals, refuge camps, schools, churches and mosques.

            There is something about assaulting civilians with bombs, missiles, artillery, tanks and infantry that hardens their attitudes.

            There is a reason those acts are called war crimes and crimes against humanity. They are criminal acts by those who perpetrate them and their enablers who supply the weapons, money and encourage the assault.

          3. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            There is no point engaging with you on the topic. You’re incapable of having a rational discussion that isn’t laced with tropes and propaganda.

            You also have zero understanding of armed conflict, the law of land warfare and how to conduct such things.

            If you don’t think that Hamas indoctrinates people to hate anyone that lives in the other side of the boarder there is exist no help for you. They even attack bedouins who are Arab, merely because they live across the border.

          4. Lefty665 Avatar

            You are projecting your own issues on me. That’s very sad in addition to being profoundly wrong. You often do better. Hope you will in the future. Best wishes.

          5. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            “You are projecting your own issues on me. That’s very sad in addition to being profoundly wrong. You often do better. Hope you will in the future. Best wishes.”

            That is entirely false and you’ve been corrected on this topic repeatedly, you’ve this far refused to acknowledge you were wrong. You’ve never been to war, you’re opinion on the matter is irrelevant.

          6. You still will not acknowledge how much of the € 3.8 BILLION sent by the EU (https://www.europarl.europa.eu/thinktank/en/document/EPRS_BRI(2023)754628 ) to help the Palestinian people that has been diverted by Hamas to create rockets from water systems and otherwise attack Israel, nor will you recognize that terrorists who fight wars from under hospitals, schools, mosques and refugee camps,and use children in their tunnels to deliver messaages and ammo, and even work at missile launch areas .These are the criminal acts. You’d prefer Israel to allow Hamas to destroy them, but they will not. Can Israel eliminate Hamas and give Gaza a chance for a normalized existence? I don’t know.

          7. Lefty665 Avatar

            You will not acknowledge how much of the nearly $4B a year the US sends to Israel has been used to commit war crimes and crimes against humanity by the Israelis. The answer is most of it.

            Again, international law is that using civilians as shields is illegal, as well as deadly for civilians, and it makes combating terrorism more difficult for combatants, it does not alleviate them of the requirement to protect civilian lives. Israel violates that requirement profoundly and continuously. Dropping 1 ton bombs on refugee camps that kill far more civilians than Hamas is but one example.

            If your idea of a normalized existence for Gaza is the open air prison camp it has been in recent decades you do not understand the issue.

            We can only save Israel from itself by pulling it back from its criminal conduct. Abetting and encouraging Israel’s war crimes may feel good as revenge in the short run, but it is deadly for Israel’s continued existence in the longer run.

            If you care about Israel’s future, and I do, we must stop it’s current atrocities. They are creating enemies faster than they are killing them.

            Here is an article documenting the Israeli propaganda about fictional Hamas atrocities that so inflamed emotions. It does not make Hamas good, but it allows rationality to defuse some of the propaganda fueled emotions that have justified Israeli crimes against humanity.
            https://consortiumnews.com/2024/01/06/how-israel-leverages-genocide-with-hamas-massacres/

        2. That was originally an Israeli chant wasn’t it?

          No.

          1. Lefty665 Avatar

            Again, you are correct, thank you.

            My correct comment should have been “Some Israelis adopted it after its creation by Palestinians”. My point stands that both sides have used the phrase, and that Israelis do not consider it as cute when it has been deployed by the other side.

            “The phrase has also been used by Israeli politicians. The 1977 election manifesto of the right-wing Israeli party said: “Between the sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty.” Similar wording has also been used more recently by other Israeli politicians.”

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/From_the_river_to_the_sea

  3. Ronnie Chappell Avatar
    Ronnie Chappell

    I suppose use of the “N” word on the UVA campus and in UVA classrooms is now permitted based on Mr. Ryan’s shift in position. Would he allow a public reading of “Huckleberry Finn” in the UVA library?

  4. Now that Ryan finds himself caught in an irreconcilable conflict, he wants to stay out of the fray. That is his prerogative. But if he appeals to the principles of free speech and institutional impartiality, he needs to apply those principles consistently, not just when it suits him.

    I agree, but in an effort to see things in as positive a light as possible I am going to give Mr. Ryan the benefit of the doubt and, for now at least, assume he has recently learned some valuable lessons about real support for free speech. I will assume he has genuinely adopted a new perspective on the issue.

    It will be interesting to see how Mr. Ryan reacts (or does not react) the next time [a] student(s) or faculty member(s) who is/are not from the left side of the political spectrum say(s) something he finds particularly reprehensible. I’ll find out then whether my optimism about his new perspective on free speech was justified.

    It would also be quite telling if he were to reverse his previous decision and clear Morgan Bettinger of any/all wrongdoing related to the false claims made about her.

    1. walter smith Avatar
      walter smith

      Your benevolence towards Mr. Ryan is too charitable. He hasn’t learned his lesson. He IS smart. And cagey. And a very well-disguised, all-in Leftist. He has implemented the hate-based, anti-American DEI pogrom with great behind the scenes skill. His new committee is a fig leaf, to arrive back at the status quo. In Left world, you can never denounce your “allies,” else you get kicked off the island. But this will appear to be thoughtful, and there will be no change, and he hopes he doesn’t get Magilled or Gayed.
      Meanwhile, I think we need a Jim Ryan for Harvard Prez campaign! Let him be Harvard’s problem. He fits ideologically better there. And then maybe UVA can get back to education and an honor system that actually involves honor.

      1. My comment should be interpreted as roughly 52% facetiousness and 48% honest cautious optimism.

        Of course, in the words of Terry Pratchett, the leopard does not change his shorts, so you may very well be correct.

        1. walter smith Avatar
          walter smith

          But we can always hope!
          (I’m just not holding my breath!)

        2. “[H]e hopes he doesn’t get Magilled or Gayed” — well-said facetiousness.

  5. Eric the half a troll Avatar
    Eric the half a troll

    Dennis was ultimately convicted of disorderly conduct (as are many protesters who break the law while exercising their first amendment rights). Aside from an unenforced (unenforceable?) mask law, the Pro-Palestinian protesters have broken no law – no property has been vandalized for instance. In your wedge driving fervor you are creating a false equivalence.

    1. Nancy Naive Avatar
      Nancy Naive

      Never Again… or 80 years, whichever comes first.
      https://jewishcurrents.org/israels-humanitarian-expulsion

      1. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        clearly that is what Israel would prefer, apparently………..

        When asked about what comes next after they get rid of Hamas, it’s pretty vague…

        1. that would be Peace.. give it a chance

          1. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            We’d need to carve out a place for them to go and be, right?

            Oh wait!

          2. Perhaps the “Palestinians” should demand a homeland within Jordan. After all, that country is located entirely within the region formerly known as Palestine. And, Jordan is four times the size of Israel, so they could easily give up a small portion of their country as a homeland for their Arab brothers and sisters.

          3. Perhaps the “Palestinians” should demand a homeland within Jordan. After all, that country is located entirely within the region formerly known as Palestine. And, Jordan is four times the size of Israel, so they could easily give up a small portion of their country as a homeland for their Arab brothers and sisters.

          4. The problem with the Palestinians is that they follow the Muslim Brotherhood (MB). MB stands for the destruction and end of all the royal families and the despots that lead the arab nations in the region and installing a new caliphate. That is why the Egyptians, Syrians, Jordanians or Saudis what nothing to do with them. Who wants to let people into their country that want to overthrow their government (except our current administration)?

          5. Jordan, like all Arab nations, don’t want the former ‘Israeli Arabs’

          6. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            west bank too?

          7. No. The country of Jordan is east of the Jordan River.

          8. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            How did these two places become Israel and were the Palestinians on them then?

          9. What “two places”?

            If you’re referring to modern Israel, then yes, there were both Arabs and Jews living in that region. At one time, the Jews in the area were referred to as “Palestinian Jews” (Eretz Yisraelim).

            “Palestine” was never a country, nor even a specific place. It was and is a region of the Near East. None of the Arabs who call themselves “Palestinian” were ever part of a country called Palestine, nor were their ancestors. They were and are mostly from Jordan, Syria, etc. For instance, Yasser Arafat was Egyptian.

            On the other hand, Israel (Judaea) was historically a principality/country/kingdom (run by Jews) until the Romans dismantled it, merged Roman Judea with Roman Syria and renamed the entire region “Syria Palestina” (Emperor Hadrian was a bit of a Graecophile).

            People in the region calling themselves “Palestinian” is (or at least should be) the functional equivalent of Americans from certain regions calling themselves “New Englanders” or “Mid-Westerners”.

          10. What “two places”?

            If you’re referring to modern Israel, then yes, there were both Arabs and Jews living in that region. At one time, the Jews in the area were referred to as “Palestinian Jews” (Eretz Yisraelim).

            “Palestine” was never a country, nor even a specific place. It was and is a region of the Near East. None of the Arabs who call themselves “Palestinian” were ever part of a country called Palestine, nor were their ancestors. They were and are mostly from Jordan, Syria, etc. For instance, Yasser Arafat was Egyptian.

            On the other hand, Israel (Judaea) was historically a principality/country/kingdom (run by Jews) until the Romans dismantled it, merged Roman Judea with Roman Syria and renamed the entire region “Syria Palestina” (Emperor Hadrian was a bit of a Graecophile).

            People in the region calling themselves “Palestinian” is (or at least should be) the functional equivalent of Americans from certain regions calling themselves “New Englanders” or “Mid-Westerners”.

          11. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            two places = Gaza and West Bank. Did the Palestinians always live in those two places? Generations?
            Were both part of what was given to Israel for their new country?

          12. What do you mean by “always”?

            The Israelites (Jews) have a longer historical claim to having a governed country in the two areas you mentioned than do “Palestinians”, but people from many ethnic backgrounds, and more than a few religions have inhabited the area for thousands of years.

            The areas that were “given” to the Jews in 1948 were already populated by about 700,000 Jews. The “West Bank” was not originally part of Israel (it was controlled by Jordan) nor was “Gaza” which was controlled by Egypt.

            It was only after Egypt, Syria and Jordan invaded Israel in 1967 that Israel claimed the West Bank and Gaza. But why shouldn’t they? They kicked the Arabs butts, and countries should count on losing territory if they lose a war that they started. Harsh? Perhaps. But that is the way the world works – unless you’re a tiny Jewish nation surrounded by Arabs, apparently. Then the losers get react violently over the course of numerous decades, and the left-wing, anti-democracy crowd gets to egg them on.

          13. What do you mean by “always”?

            The Israelites (Jews) have a longer historical claim to having a governed country in the two areas you mentioned than do “Palestinians”, but people from many ethnic backgrounds, and more than a few religions have inhabited the area for thousands of years.

            The areas that were “given” to the Jews in 1948 were already populated by about 700,000 Jews. The “West Bank” was not originally part of Israel (it was controlled by Jordan) nor was “Gaza” which was controlled by Egypt.

            It was only after Egypt, Syria and Jordan invaded Israel in 1967 that Israel claimed the West Bank and Gaza. But why shouldn’t they? They kicked the Arabs butts, and countries should count on losing territory if they lose a war that they started. Harsh? Perhaps. But that is the way the world works – unless you’re a tiny Jewish nation surrounded by Arabs, apparently. Then the losers get react violently over the course of numerous decades, and the left-wing, anti-democracy crowd gets to egg them on.

          14. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            I am often reminded of a Ridley Scott film, when discussing Jerusalem.

            “It has fallen to us to defend Jerusalem, and we have made our preparations as well as they can be made. None of us took this city from Muslims. No Muslim of the great army now coming against us was born when this city was lost. We fight over an offence we did not give, against those who were not alive to be offended. What is Jerusalem? Your holy places lie over the Jewish temple that the Romans pulled down. The Muslim places of worship lie over yours. Which is more holy? The wall? The Mosque? The Sepulcher? Who has claim? No one has claim. All have claim!”

          15. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            right… but the people already living in Gaza and the West Bank for generations? If Israel “won” these
            places as spoils of war, why didn’t they govern them and make the people in them full citizens with equal rights as other Israeli citizens? I know Israel is floating this idea but it’s pretty bizarre and a likely a total no go. What is Plan B? Just turn both into giant prison camps?

          16. I agree that the best course of action would have been for Israel to simply declare the two areas part of Israel as a whole, and to give its inhabitants the option of becoming Israeli citizens.

            Imagine how that region might today if after WWI the Brits had named the area “Mandate Judea” instead of Mandate Palestine”.

            There are Palestinians who are Israeli citizens, by the way – about 1.6 million of them, or 20% of the country’s population.

          17. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            So what if the Peace requires a little ethnic cleansing…

        2. Nancy Naive Avatar
          Nancy Naive

          It’s not likely they are talking about 1st class transport on a B747 with household effects to follow by Beakins.

          1. True enough. The largest aircraft in the El Al fleet is the 787-9 Dreamliner…

  6. Nancy Naive Avatar
    Nancy Naive

    This one is for the Captain. Private equity and healthcare. Shortly after my little buddy died, his vet retired and sold to PE. They lost their 5-star rating very quickly and now their license.

    Easier to get the State to protect Rover than granny.

    https://www.thenation.com/article/economy/private-equity-pets-veterinarian/

    1. That’s too bad. I hope you were able to find a good vet for your new little buddy.

      1. Nancy Naive Avatar
        Nancy Naive

        No new buddy yet. I’m concerned about their welfare should something happen to me. I’ll probably adopt something I’m sure to outlive like a parrot or a tortoise.

        1. Go ahead and get a pup. I’ll take it in if something happens to you. Of course, at the rate things are going you’ll probably outlive me, too.

        2. Go ahead and get a pup. I’ll take it in if something happens to you. Of course, at the rate things are going you’ll probably outlive me, too.

        3. Lefty665 Avatar

          We lost our hound last year and have not gotten another out of concern that it would outlive us. First time since I was a kid with no dog. 🙁

          1. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            Well, the wife has a hair appointment tomorrow. The ASPCA is just around the corner. We going to look for another rescuer. And I meant rescuer.

            I’ll bet you could leave enough to the dog that even your brother-in-law could learn to love it.

          2. Lefty665 Avatar

            Maybe not my BIL, but somebody for sure. Last one was an older rescue for that reason. We and he got 5 good years, maybe do that again. Rescues are all we’ve ever had, there are too many dogs in need to encourage puppy mills.

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