No, Governor, Back-to-Work Protesters Are Not “Selfish”

Florida protesters against economic lock-down measures.

by James A. Bacon

Governor Ralph Northam has a problem with protesters who would like to see him reopen Virginia’s economy by phasing out his COVID-19 emergency decrees. In an interview with MSNBC, he said (as reported by Politico):

I’m just as anxious as anybody else to open up our economy. We don’t need protesters to encourage me and anybody else to ease these restrictions. …

What they’re doing at the end of the day — which I think is so selfish — they’re putting our health care providers, those that are in the trenches trying to save lives every day, they’re putting them at risk, and that’s wrong. I would ask them to think about that.

Selfish?

As Northam acknowledged in this tweet in another context, “Most people live paycheck to paycheck.” He was right about that. Hundreds of thousands of Virginians do live from paycheck to paycheck. The loss of a week’s pay can represent financial disaster for some, and there is no assurance that emergency federal helicopter dollars will make them whole.

Is it “selfish” to want to go back to work?

Is it “selfish” to want to maintain credit card payments?

Is it “selfish” to want to pay the landlord or banker?

Is it “selfish” to strive to be a self-supporting contributor to society rather than a drain on the public purse by drawing unemployment benefits, living off food stamps, and going on Medicaid?

Yeah, I get it — and I bet the protesters do, too — we need to support healthcare workers in the front lines of the battle against COVID-19. We need to act responsibly in maintaining social distancing. We need to avoid a re-acceleration of the epidemic that inundates our hospitals with patients. No one wants re-enact scenes out of China or Italy.

But it’s also reasonable to re-think the sweeping restrictions enacted as emergency measures when no one knew how rapidly the spread of the virus would propagate and when there was widespread concern that Virginia hospitals would be swamped with more patients than they could handle. Back on March 17 Northam justified the imposition of widespread restrictions on public gatherings by the need to slow the spread of the COVID-19 virus. “Everyone must play a role,” he said, “to help flatten the curve and mitigate the spread of this virus.”

The virus is still spreading, but the curve has flattened. Virginia hospitals are no longer worried about being overwhelmed. Of course, the reason the curve has flattened is because of the measures that Northam put into place. But now is time to start rolling them back judiciously and incrementally — balancing the health of the population with the health of the economy.

While he’s dialing back the restrictions, Northam might consider dialing back his statement about protesters being selfish. The protesters need to be cognizant, just as Northam should, of the trade-offs between public health and economic recovery. But wanting to go back to work, earn a living, and support a family is anything but selfish.


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78 responses to “No, Governor, Back-to-Work Protesters Are Not “Selfish””

  1. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
    Dick Hall-Sizemore

    Finally, an acknowledgment that the “the curve has flattened… because of the measures that Northam put into place.” Now, let’s wait for the curve to go down some, otherwise it will go back up.

  2. CrazyJD Avatar

    >>Now, let’s wait for the curve to go down some, otherwise it will go back up

    And you know this because…?

    1. Exactly. That’s why I said the rollback should be phased in “judiciously and incrementally.”

      1. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        whatever that means – depending on who you ask? What do major companies like McDonalds say?

        oh.. and who says as Crazy asks?

        ” CDC director warns second wave of coronavirus is likely to be even more devastating”

        Even as states move ahead with plans to reopen their economies, the director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention warned Tuesday that a second wave of the novel coronavirus will be far more dire because it is likely to coincide with the start of flu season.

        “There’s a possibility that the assault of the virus on our nation next winter will actually be even more difficult than the one we just went through,” CDC Director Robert Redfield said in an interview with The Washington Post. “And when I’ve said this to others, they kind of put their head back, they don’t understand what I mean.”

          1. djrippert Avatar
            djrippert

            Bit.ly – grasp the concept.

          2. Nancy_Naive Avatar
            Nancy_Naive

            You’ve mistaken me for someone who cares.

  3. ksmith8953 Avatar
    ksmith8953

    At least the Virginia protesters are in cars circling the capitol, practicing good social distancing practices.

    1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
      Nancy_Naive

      Which when you think about it means they actually know the problem is dire and agree with the orders.

      “Okay, I’m writing this check for my Taxed Enough Already taxes, but I’m putting a strong message on the memo line and I’m willing to pay $10/year more to say so on my snake plate.”

  4. LarrytheG Avatar
    LarrytheG

    Interesting article:

    “The Quiet Hand of Conservative Groups in the Anti-Lockdown Protests

    An informal coalition of influential conservative leaders and groups, some with close connections to the White House, has been quietly working to nurture protests and apply political and legal pressure to overturn state and local orders intended to stop the spread of the coronavirus.

    The groups have tapped their networks to drive up turnout at recent rallies in state capitals, dispatched their lawyers to file lawsuits, and paid for polling and research to undercut the arguments behind restrictions that have closed businesses and limited the movement of most Americans.

    Among those fighting the orders are FreedomWorks and Tea Party Patriots, which played pivotal roles in the beginning of Tea Party protests starting more than a decade ago. Also involved are a law firm led partly by former Trump White House officials, a network of state-based conservative policy groups, and an ad hoc coalition of conservative leaders known as Save Our Country that has advised the White House on strategies for a tiered reopening of the economy.

    The effort picked up some influential support on Tuesday, when Attorney General William P. Barr expressed concerns about state-level restrictions potentially infringing on constitutional rights, and suggested that, if that occurred, the Justice Department might weigh in, including by supporting legal challenges by others. Separately, in Wisconsin, Republicans in the state legislature sued to block the Democratic governor’s order extending stay-at-home rules through May 26.

    Those helping orchestrate the fight against restrictions predict the effort could energize the right in the same way the Tea Party movement did in 2009 and 2010, and potentially be helpful to President Trump as he campaigns for re-election. But the cause has yet to demonstrate that kind of traction.

    Polls show a majority of Americans are more concerned about reopening the country too quickly than they are about the damage to the economy. And coronavirus protests have drawn smaller crowds ranging from a few dozen to several thousand at a rally in Michigan last week.

    Conditions are hardly ideal for a protest movement related to the virus. In addition to the health risks, demonstrators potentially face legal exposure for violating the very measures they are protesting. Plus, some key Republican leaders have embraced the types of restrictions being targeted, while powerful grass-roots mobilizing groups, including those spearheaded by the billionaire activist Charles Koch, have so far not embraced the protests.

    Still, the fight has emerged as a galvanizing cause for a vocal element of Mr. Trump’s base and others on the political right. Organizers see it as unifying social conservatives, who view the orders as targeting religious groups; fiscal conservatives who chafe at the economic devastation wrought by the restrictions on businesses; and civil libertarians who contend that the restrictions infringe on constitutional rights.

    “Groups are united in purpose on this,” said Noah Wall, advocacy director for FreedomWorks, which in 2009 organized a Tea Party protest that drew tens of thousands of people or more to Washington. He described the current efforts as appealing to a “much broader” group. “This is about people who want to get back to work and leave their homes,” he said. “

    1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
      Nancy_Naive

      Fox News. — Willing to lie on TV for money

  5. generally_speaking Avatar
    generally_speaking

    “Is it “selfish” to want to go back to work?

    Is it “selfish” to want to maintain credit card payments?

    Is it “selfish” to want to pay the landlord or banker?

    Is it “selfish” to strive to be a self-supporting contributor to society rather than a drain on the public purse by drawing unemployment benefits, living off food stamps, and going on Medicaid?”

    By the actual definition of what “selfish” is, then yes, they are selfish:

    “Definition of selfish

    1: concerned excessively or exclusively with oneself : seeking or concentrating on one’s own advantage, pleasure, or well-being without regard for others

    2: arising from concern with one’s own welfare or advantage in disregard of others”

    Are they wrong to want to reopen the economy? No, they are not. Are they wrong to be frustrated and mad in the current times? No, they are not – it’s a natural psychological reaction (at least I think it is – but I’m not a psychiatrist).

    If you want to be mad at something, be mad at the fragility of our society (in the Nicholas Taleb sense) that does not have a mechanism to deal with something like a pandemic while maintaining an economy. This is huge flaw in our current social and economic model of society.

    If we had universal basic income, we could cut unemployment insurance and things like food stamps, and people would be more willing to comply with necessary public health mandates and do what needs to be done – because their basic economic interests would be taken care of.

    If each of those protesters were getting $2000 a month, would they be out there protesting?

    1. LarrytheG Avatar
      LarrytheG

      Universal Basic Income – BLASPHEMY!

    2. Sorry, maybe you think it’s selfish to honor one’s financial commitments to banks, landlords, and other creditors, but I don’t. I find it honorable. A friend of mine owns a shopping center most of whose tenants cannot pay their rent. Their pain has become his pain. And if he goes under, his pain will become his bank’s pain. Multiply that one example ten thousand fold in Virginia, and you get an idea of what’s happening in the real world outside the Governor’s Office.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        Debt? seems like the Feds are showering money down on folks like your friend. I doubt seriously he’s in worse condition that the small businesses in that shopping center who likely have few other assets or income, and who, so far, seem to not getting the “trickle down”.

        What’s going on outside the Gov office is largely a tea-party/gun rights-organized event; they’re playing politics in the middle of the pandemic. And they are not the majority of Virginians – 75% that agree with what the Governor is doing, and they are NOT protesting.

        Where are the voices of Conservative/GOP leadership in Virginia? Are they gone and now all we have is the undisciplined horn-blowing cacophony, the usual suspects of tea party/gun rights folks?

        We need thousands of people to do contact tracing. That’s jobs to earn money to pay debts. Why not do that?

        And I’d think companies like Sonic and Checkers ought to be “killing it”…

        We have a reality here… it’s no one’s fault, no one “likes” it, but Conservatives cannot seem to deal with the reality, and they’re gonna make life miserable for as many as they can… apparently.

        Few people in Virginia want to do what Georgia seems to be doing. Northam is in line with most other Governors on this.

      2. Nancy_Naive Avatar
        Nancy_Naive

        I can’t take credit for this, nor can I post the link because Vic Dibitetto makes Lewis Black look comatose and a drunk sailor sound angelic but…

        Listen to Vic Dibitetto’s “Message to the Government” found on YouTube.

        Mortgages are secured loans and the notion of adding 3 months on the backend assures the bank gets its money with interest compounded on the displaced payments. They make more money!

  6. Nancy_Naive Avatar
    Nancy_Naive

    Absolutely! Northam is dead wrong! They’re not selfish, and neither is a coal mine canary.

  7. S. E. Warwick Avatar
    S. E. Warwick

    Curious that daily VDH Covid 19 report, which is getting a lot of scrutiny, was not up by its self reported 10 a.m. deadline on April 22.

  8. How about those who want to destroy everything that folks built up for their lives when they’ve not gotten the virus, practice safe distancing? If you didn’t vote to quarentine during measles outbreaks, it makes no sense to me why you would have a problem now. If you didn’t want to quarentine during flu outbreaks, what’s the problem?
    Next, I don’t appreciate the shaming, much like a # of racist/homophobe/gender comments, its a blatant attempt at mind and opinion control. If I can’t post that there are African Americans running on the Republican ticket without getting called a racist, then reality is lost for a great number of people. It also hurts those who truly get that treatment and aren’t listened to or helped. I can think of several issues like that, and not just in those categories. Why do people do that but feel it is ok to discriminate against the handicapped by using/abusing those parking spaces/hang tags for “I’ll just be here a minute”?

    1. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
      Dick Hall-Sizemore

      There are vaccines for measles and the flu. That is why quarantines are not needed. In fact, there are measles outbreaks precisely because groups of people refuse to vaccinate their children. Furthermore, we don’t have a “quarantine” for COVID-19. I went to the grocery store and pharmacy yesterday. I am preparing to go to a local farmers’ market to pick up some plants–all in keeping with social distancing: plants preordered with a credit card, everybody with masks, and keeping distance between us. Not only am I getting some plants, but I am helping to keep a small local business afloat.

      In summary, comparing COVID-19 conditions with non-quarantines for measles and flu is a faulty comparison.

      1. djrippert Avatar
        djrippert

        The first rudimentary flu vaccine was developed in 1942. American society did not shut down for flu season prior to that year.

        1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
          Nancy_Naive

          You’re right. They died.

          Actually, in the Kansas Army Barracks Flu epidemic of 1918, some cities canceled events and ordered quarantines.

          https://www.businessinsider.com/history-of-how-st-louis-vs-philadelphia-treated-1918-flu-pandemic-2020-4

  9. Reed Fawell 3rd Avatar
    Reed Fawell 3rd

    The Virginia Governor, expert in pediatric neurology and care, likely looks at Virginia right now as one big baby. For him, this is a rare opportunity, he’s the master at last. Virginia is like a baby after birth, for now he can put it aside, study it, play with all its possibilities, before deciding what to do with it. Oh, the games, and deceptions, he can play, the unadulterated absolute power, all the attention he’s getting right now in the limelight, the thrill of it all! It’s like a blackface Jig performance back in the day. Irresistible. The Old Dominion now frozen in amber, one big Williamsburg replica, locked up, nobody outside anywhere, save for Blackface and his Democrat cronies. Never let go of this crisis. Keep it stirring, he’s Putin, Virginia style.

    1. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
      Dick Hall-Sizemore

      It seems as if you are really going to be disappointed when the stay-at-home order is eased, because all your nonsense about Northam will be disproved.

      1. djrippert Avatar
        djrippert

        The per capita testing data for Virginia vs the other 49 states and DC represent a quantitative indictment of Ralph Northam and his administration. According to the COVID-19 data project Virginia ran 1,619 new tests yesterday, the lowest total in the last 6 days. Over the last seven days Virginia has run an average of 2,227 new tests. Over those same seven days Tennessee has run 4,193 new tests. Tennessee has a population of 6.829M while Virginia has a population of 8.536M. That means, over the past 7 days, Tennessee has been conducting new COVID-19 tests at 235% the per-capita rate of Virginia.

        Northam’s supporters can run from reality but they can’t hide from the data.

        1. TooManyTaxes Avatar
          TooManyTaxes

          You’re forgetting that the job of the Post is to hide that data. Query: If Northam ever runs for office again in a general election, knowing everything we know about Northam’s past, would the Post endorse him? For context despite the allegations from a number of women about Bill Clinton and sexual assault, the Post endorsed him twice.

          About the only good thing from COVID-19 is that a lot of journalists will be looking to make a career change. https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2020/04/silver-lining-3.php

          1. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            but they did not hide the Fairfax School debacle. Right?

            And for Northam, one decent GOP candidate wins.

            Can the Virginia GOP manage that? The Va GOP is basically a bunch of wackadoodles these days.

          2. TooManyTaxes Avatar
            TooManyTaxes

            Raising the price of gas via tax increases for working class people while keeping overweight truck fees flat. (I sent background info on this to a Post reporter I know. He was told to drop the issue.)

            Raising the price of electricity through the utility reform bill for people who cannot economically install solar. Includes tenants, people who face north or east, elderly people who won’t live in their homes for the payback period.

            Charging different prices for electricity based on their race.

            After campaigning against Dominion, allowing Dominion to put wind energy facilities in the rate base.

            Allowing a person to present a fake ID to impersonate another voter?

            All this idiotic Democratic Party legislation is within the Post’s bounds of reasonableness. And how many stories did the Post run on macaca? It’s a vile institution. The bad thing is that Bezos rescued it.

          3. Reed Fawell 3rd Avatar
            Reed Fawell 3rd

            Then of course there are the monster ratcheting up and down tolls working folks must pay in huge amounts to earn a living and get home to see their kids, thanks to governments’ malpractice in land use that feeds the rich and powerful at worker expense.

      2. Reed Fawell 3rd Avatar
        Reed Fawell 3rd

        Dick says:
        “It seems as if you are really going to be disappointed when the stay-at-home order is eased, because all your nonsense about Northam will be disproved.”

        If I thought nothing would change, I would not make the effort to criticize. As to you calling my opinions on the governor nonsense, well its your opinion and its fine with me. I have my own opinions based on the actions and behaviors as I see and judge those actions of his administration. As to the governor I trust nothing the man says, again based on the actions of some in his government, including the governor.

    2. idiocracy Avatar
      idiocracy

      Study it? Play with it? The master?

      I think you give that shining example of “Pocahontas Privilege” too much credit.

    3. Nancy_Naive Avatar
      Nancy_Naive

      Oh, just take two hydoxychloroquine and call back tomorrow.

      1. djrippert Avatar
        djrippert

        For once, I actually laughed at one of your comments.

        1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
          Nancy_Naive

          Then you are humorless.

    4. Reed Fawell 3rd Avatar
      Reed Fawell 3rd

      Rather than wade through clutter of knee jerk one liners, it pays rich dividends to instead step back, seeking always to gain better views of and angles on big picture.

      In so doing, one need be on a constant quest for ever more potentially related dots. These should be noted, listed, and aggregated, then moved around and strung together at will, building the timelines and plot lines beneath a lengthening narrative arc of the story. Mosaics, and subplots then emerge too.

      Plus the investigator must relentlessly synthesize. lighting fires along the way, bringing snakes from wood piles, as the bonfires rage to conclusion.

      As to this story keep your eyes on the University of Virginia’s key supporting roll in the Virginia Governors latest Jig, all of it pure political performance art done the classic Virginia Way. Money, power, influence, for a product.

      See:
      https://www.baconsrebellion.com/biocomplexity-institute-unveils-covid-19-model/

  10. Reed Fawell 3rd Avatar
    Reed Fawell 3rd

    Generally Speaking defined Blackface to a tee:

    “Definition of selfish

    1: concerned excessively or exclusively with oneself : seeking or concentrating on one’s own advantage, pleasure, or well-being without regard for others

    2: arising from concern with one’s own welfare or advantage in disregard of others”

  11. Steve Haner Avatar
    Steve Haner

    Selfish protesters- don’t know about that. But I’m trying to monitor the House of Delegates meeting and their car horns in the background prove they are jerks.

    1. DeptOfTyranny Avatar
      DeptOfTyranny

      …at least someone is allowed to work

  12. ksmith8953 Avatar
    ksmith8953

    In the end we will all have to agree to disagree, find a compatible solution that gives both sides the ability for employment and safety. Not all of us can work from home. Some of us are employed in the service industry. All of us pay taxes. No one wants to give someone a death sentence and noone wants to die. We have to find a solution that is safe and wise. We have nothing in the past to help us decide. I read the above, both sides are right. What now? Tough choices ahead –some of us will like and some of us will not like. What is important is that we continue to voice our opinions, but, in the end, accept the best solution for all.

    1. LarrytheG Avatar
      LarrytheG

      The first thing to recognize is that a LOT of people are STILL employed and so we DO need a reasonable inventory of those who are not.

      The second is that those jobs that involve close contact with others cannot continue that way. Alternatives need to be found. We can’t just say “to hell with it” and then do stupid stuff that will endanger everyone. This is not optional.

      Finally, there are other jobs right now in the economy and people need to “stretch” a little – to take those jobs instead of waiting of their old one to come back.

      The big problem is that we are not hearing the alternative from Conservatives. It’s once more, their way or the highway as evidenced by their choice to NOT offer anything other than what they want.

      1. djrippert Avatar
        djrippert

        The alternative is an effective testing program (like Rhode Island has implemented) along with contact tracing (like South Korea is doing) and a steady reopening of the economy (like Germany is doing).

        The missing link is the Northam Administration’s inability to implement an effective testing program as has been done in many other states.

        Ralph Northam blaming Trump for Virginia’s incompetent testing regime is like the 30th ranked starting NFL quarterback blaming the NFL Commissioner for his poor performance.

        1. LarrytheG Avatar
          LarrytheG

          which states are doing contact tracing?

  13. Peter Galuszka Avatar
    Peter Galuszka

    You go LarrytheG!

  14. LarrytheG Avatar
    LarrytheG

    The jobs that require close contact with others are not coming back right away – that’s just a simple reality and we cannot be like children who don’t like what’s happened and are going to throw a fit because we are not happy.

    We need contact tracing – thats jobs.

    We have talked and talked and talked and infrastructure – not only roads, but retrofitting CSOs and redoing storm-water, etc, etc… you don’t need no stinking New green Deal – just a vanilla infrastructure bill that is a whole lot better than just giving people money. Give them a paycheck and let them feel good about earning it and paying for their needs.

    WHERE are the Conservative voices about how to go forward here?

    where are they?

    1. idiocracy Avatar
      idiocracy

      Well, if you want to redo storm water, it might help if someone at VDOT got it through their skull that water doesn’t flow uphill.

      1. Amen to that! The recent VDOT rotoditching in Mathews has accomplished next to nothing except pumping water out of the ditches into the woods–where it can drain back into the ditches which are now even less aligned with the pipes under driveways and across roads. There seems to be a Commonwealth edict that if you dig deeper ditches you can pretend it’s okay that there’s no way for water to leave those ditches through outfalls filled with decades of trees and annually reconstructed beaver dams. After all, VDOT’s not in the business of removing trees–trees that wouldn’t be there if VDOT cleaned the outfalls every 2 or 3 years. Now roads are lined with marsh grass weed gardens instead of storm water conveyances.

        1. LarrytheG Avatar
          LarrytheG

          I don’t really know about VDOT in Mathews but up our way – they say the property owners are responsible for conveying runoff and what VDOT is responsible for is maintaining the roadway and pipes under it.

          VDOT has done a ton of culvert replacement – here is an example, you can see the old pipe in the background.

          https://wcsprattinc.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/965-1-1-e1488979233632.jpg

          1. Larry, on ALL state roads, VDOT is responsible for ditches draining the roadway, pipes carrying water beneath roads, and repairing or replacing driveway pipes after the landowner provides the initial pipe. The culvert replacements are too often done as the result of collapses from failed structures.

          2. Reed Fawell 3rd Avatar
            Reed Fawell 3rd

            Sounds like VDOT, so highly competent for generations before, now shirks its responsibilities to Virginia’s citizens too. Are the taxpayers who fund VDOT being intentionally mislead by VDOT, I wonder? Is this yet another state fish rotting from head down too?

          3. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            yep, they replace the structures under or adjacent (if they own the land). They will not repair a structure that is on private property usually.

            I understand that they have abandoned a number of roads that sat on private dams.

    2. djrippert Avatar
      djrippert

      Didn’t Obama spend hundreds of billions of dollars for shovel ready jobs ready to revitalize America’s infrastructure? I watched the money flow out of the taxpayers’ pockets. Where is the revitalized infrastructure?

      Now you want Shovel Ready II?

      1. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        We did it and quite a few roads and schools and other infrastructure was built We still need more.

        The point here is if we’re going to helicopter money from the Feds – then why not have it not be money for not working?

        Why not have work for those who get the money?

        This is a true conservative idea.

        what’s the problem?

      2. TooManyTaxes Avatar
        TooManyTaxes

        I know three local wireless broadband companies that went under because of the Obama stimulus program.

  15. LarrytheG Avatar
    LarrytheG

    Well VDOT is not responsible for that. They are only responsible for conveying water under the roadway. Anything upstream or downstream is not their responsibility.

    1. Larry, BS!
      VDOT is responsible for conveying water to an adequate receiving channel. That includes storm water and streams crossing the road. Adequate receiving channels need to convey water to streams, rivers or bays forever, not just when constructed. When they don’t, they cause upstream flooding and deprive downstream areas of water flow.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        Carol – I know we have been over this before but I just don’t understand how any downtream obstruction is so complete that water does not go around it… you’d have to have a complete dam for a long way in order for water to backup to a roadway.

        Is there any way – you could provide a picture of what you are talking about?

        1. idiocracy Avatar
          idiocracy

          Larry,

          During a heavy rainstorm it doesn’t take much of a downstream obstruction to cause upstream flooding.

          It doesn’t need to be a complete obstruction, just enough to slow down the water enough that it backs up.

          For example, think of a slow draining toilet. Flush it once and wait a while before flushing again, you might be ok. Flush it twice in quick succession and you’ll have water all over the floor.

          By the way, toilets are designed to hold the contents of the tank in the bowl so, assuming the bowl is at normal level and it’s completely clogged, flushing it once won’t make it overflow.

          1. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            Yes… when there is flooding – it can and does back up on state roads, but now that you are thinking about dams… think of how long a “dam” would have to be to back the water up to the road and not escape around the ends?

        2. The direct impact and destruction is to private property and to the financial health of homeowners who must install alternative septic systems because their land gets saturated when rainfall cannot follow its natural drainage patterns. I’m not counting how often roads are underwater in a heavy rain and drain off in a few hours. The unseen impact is to the environment and downstream habitat for aquatic life and in the reduction of roadway longevity. Land subsidence from continued saturation is another impact. I’m not going to go any further on this now. I just wanted to correct your misinformation. I’ve been writing on this since 2012, and I’m done with it for now.

          1. idiocracy Avatar
            idiocracy

            That is correct. Roads don’t last long when the subgrade is continually saturated with water. DOTs in other states know this and take action accordingly.

      2. idiocracy Avatar
        idiocracy

        “Adequate receiving channel”. That’s way too complex of a phrase for the average VDOT employee to understand. Maybe we need to dumb it down some, perhaps to a 3rd grade level:

        “Where da watta gotta go”.

        There, I think you might be able to get the average VDOT employee to understand now.

        1. The average employee actually gets it. It’s VDOT management who doesn’t and directs them on what they are to do. And that goes all the way up the chain. If IRC, it was a deputy commissioner of VDOT who said that as long as the water’s off the road, the ditches are doing their job. We actually got the Commonwealth’s Assistant Attorney General for Transportation to tell VDOT managers that roadside ditches on state roads are state infrastructure and their responsibility to maintain. Didn’t help much.

          1. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            It does depend on if they own the right-of-way. We have some 1930 era roads (and I bet Mathews does also).

            Some of our roads have almost no ditch and VDOT has had to purchase right-of-way to expand the ditch.

            In a new subdivision, VDOT will not accept the road into the state system if it does not have the proper drainage structures and the land they are on conveys to VDOT.

          2. idiocracy Avatar
            idiocracy

            VDOT can and does get drainage easements. They don’t need to purchase additional right of away.

        2. Reed Fawell 3rd Avatar
          Reed Fawell 3rd

          In my neck of the woods, somewhat akin to Carol’s, someone got on our ditches big time. It makes a world of difference. Talk about preventative medicine! Well maintained and designed ditches are the poster child for great rural infrastructure.

        3. LarrytheG Avatar
          LarrytheG

          When VDOT builds a new road, the rules now require them to put in a storm pond sized to the amount of runoff from the road.

          They did not used to do this and so there are roads that just discharge into creeks and streams.

          Yes, VDOT buys easements but the easements are so restrictive that the owner basically has no use of that land. It’s dedicated to VDOT uses.

          In coastal areas where there are tides – land subsistence and ultra-high (king) tides can and does flood roads for long periods of time.

          https://www.pilotonline.com/resizer/5uIX0_2KLC5p0e8mhKjsv1qaonw=/1200×0/top/arc-anglerfish-arc2-prod-tronc.s3.amazonaws.com/public/JUT4757HZVASJIYX2MFQRP7O54.JPG

    2. DeptOfTyranny Avatar
      DeptOfTyranny

      VDoT does everything it can to avoid responsibility for much of anything, which gets even more fun when you have mutiple government bureaucracies all competing for the same

    3. idiocracy Avatar
      idiocracy

      Then why, Larry, does VDOT have storm retaining ponds that they own?

      1. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        VDOT has to build storm ponds to store the runoff from roads they build.

        1. idiocracy Avatar
          idiocracy

          So then, they are responsible for what happens to the runoff from their roads. If they weren’t, they wouldn’t bother with storm ponds.

  16. djrippert Avatar
    djrippert

    Jim – you have to stratify people in the American liberal philosophy into three layers – true elites, useful idiots and the cannon fodder army. The goal is for the true elites to rob the cannon fodder army using the useful idiots.

    Fidel Castro is a good example of a true elite. Who can forget Bernie Sanders admiration of Castro. He selflessly did so much for the cannon fodder army in Cuba. Quick quiz – What was Fidel Castro’s net worth when he died? Would you believe $900M? Yeah, that’s the number.

    The true elites from the left (and there are equally evil true elites from the right) want to use American socialism to rob the cannon fodder army to enrich themselves. But Americans don’t like socialism. It seems to lead to totalitarianism and dictatorship. The so-called socialist leaders always seem to turn into people like Fidel Castro – billionaires or nearly so. What the “Fidel Castros in waiting” need is a crisis. A good old fashioned depression. So they call on the useful idiots to create the crisis. People like Ralph Northam and the members of the main stream media. Ralph will insist on broader testing to reopen the economy and then bumble and bungle the state’s testing program thus keeping the economy closed. As the economy sinks into oblivion the elites will line their pockets with the blood of the cannon fodder army. The elite will get dachas on the Black Sea while Ralph gets a condo in Hooterville for his contribution. The cannon fodder army? They’ll be living in cardboard boxes under highway overpasses.

    Ain’t socialism grand?

    https://www.celebritynetworth.com/richest-politicians/presidents/fidel-castro-net-worth/

    1. Reed Fawell 3rd Avatar
      Reed Fawell 3rd

      “you have to stratify people in the American liberal philosophy into three layers – true elites, useful idiots and the cannon fodder army. The goal is for the true elites to rob the cannon fodder army using the useful idiots.”

      This is worthy of Thomas Paine, pure genius. And right on target. Now where do we all fit into their grand plan?

    2. LarrytheG Avatar
      LarrytheG

      Good Lord guy. Got anything remotely relevant?

    3. Nancy_Naive Avatar
      Nancy_Naive

      Whereas America’s Conservatives can be sectioned into just two groups; there is the easily led useful idiots and the willingly ignorant who lead them.

      That which benefits me is social progress. If it benefits others, it’s socialism.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        Yes.. that really does describe some Conservatism these days. The fact that some of them also WILLINGLY entertain KNOWN conspiracy theories and websites that promote those things is mind boggling.

        There ARE some principled conservatives left – some even moderate but they are pretty much viewed with contempt by many on the right theses days RINOS and CINOS…

        When I first came to BR, it was moderate – it promoted Conservative and Libertarian values but as politics overall veered more to the right, BR has followed. Words like “leftists” “social justice warriors”, “elitists”, “virtue signaling”, even “coonman” became more and more embedded in the orginal Blog posts themselves and engendered more in the comments – yes and the favor returned.

        And you got a dose of it when you first came here.

        Jim realized it was getting out of hand but it’s still very much on the tongues of some.

        To Jim’s credit, he has not given in to the temptation to do what a lot of Conservative sites have done and basically run off those who do not share their views and I suspect he has been getting some pressure along those lines.

  17. As someone who is over 65 and has pensions that worked for, I am glad our governor is taking a cautious approach. But then, I’m selfish that way.

    Why don’t we have this discussion on day 10 of the 14 day period the Prez proclaimed are the rules? https://www.whitehouse.gov/openingamerica/#criteria
    Bosun

    1. LarrytheG Avatar
      LarrytheG

      geeze, Bosun, you keep saying these things – and asking logical questions!

  18. Nancy_Naive Avatar
    Nancy_Naive

    Not all fake news is created maliciously. Sometimes it results from news personnel who are mentally afflicted.

    “Fox’s Brit Hume Says Biden Is Senile: I Have the ‘Same Kind of Memory Problems’”

    So Mr. Hume, you’re saying you’re senile?

    https://news.yahoo.com/fox-brit-hume-says-biden-021518245.html

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