No Cuts, No Glory

(From today’s Washington Times, online edition):

As the old saying goes, be careful what you pray for: The gods just may grant you your wish. Republicans fervently hoped for a return to power, and the political furies granted them their biggest win in six decades. Now the GOP must make good on its promises to cut spending, reduce deficits and stabilize the national debt.

Here’s the big question that no one asked during the campaign season: How much fiscal consolidation in the form of spending cuts and/or tax increases must Congress enact to put the nation back on a financially sustainable course?

In its Pledge to America, the GOP House leadership vowed to roll back government spending “to pre-stimulus, pre-bailout levels,” thus saving $100 billion in the first year alone and “putting us on a path to begin paying down the debt.”

Putting us on a path to paying down the debt? Whoever composed that line must have stayed up way too late and taken way too much No-Doz. It’s blather. Rolling back spending $100 billion a year won’t accomplish anything.

In the 10-year forecast submitted with the midyear review of the fiscal 2011 budget, President Obama already assumes a $75 billion reduction in discretionary spending between 2011 and 2012, thanks to resumed economic growth, reduced unemployment and reduced entitlement payouts to the poor.

House Republicans might respond that the pledge also promises to put a “hard cap” on domestic discretionary spending to limit federal spending on an annual basis. Yet Mr. Obama, in his State of the Union address, already vowed to impose a three-year freeze on discretionary domestic spending. In his 10-year forecast, he sees such spending topping out at $533 billion in 2011 (the current fiscal year) declining to $459 billion in 2014, and rising slowly to $529 billion over the next six years.

In other words, House Republicans swore in their pledge to accomplish little more than Mr. Obama already has committed to deliver. (Read more.)


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69 responses to “No Cuts, No Glory”

  1. I have a theory about the ascendancy of the Tea Party and that is that there is an almost total vacuum on traditional Republican leadership.

    Almost none of the current "party" Republicans have an honest approach to a balanced budget – and have not had one for almost a decade.

    Even now – the "cut, cut cut" is a scurrilous and cynical narrative that counts on the fact that the average person is pretty much clueless about the fundamental realities of the budget.

    Instead of dealing FIRST with the deficit – as fundamental to debt and it's horrendous implications of the longer term debt – they chew on the projected deb – and the projected entitlement problems fraudulently – out and out demagoguery.

    And this has led to a whole group of people totally fed up with the current status quo.

    The problem is compounded when it is readily apparent that the average tea party person is even LESS knowledgeable about the dimensions and differences of the annual deficit, government spending, taxes, etc.

    The average tea pot believes that taxes have exploded and that govt spending is out of control.

    They actually do not believe the facts – that taxation is the lowest in 50 years and that most Federal agencies beyond DOD and Homeland Security have not grown in more than 10 years.

    Here's what David Stockton – the budget director for Ronald Reagan who engineered the biggest tax cut in history had to say on 60 minutes the other night:

    " hink your taxes are too high? David Stockman thinks they're not high enough. And he's a Republican who once helped engineer the largest tax cut in history. Ronald Reagan's former budget director tells Lesley Stahl why he's changed his tune on taxes.

    One Republican brave enough to go public is David Stockman, President Reagan's budget director. He says all the Bush tax cuts should be eliminated – even those on the middle class.

    And he says his own Republican Party has gone too far with its anti-tax religion.

    "Tax cutting is a religion. What do you mean by that?" correspondent Lesley Stahl asked Stockman.

    "Well it's become in a sense an absolute. Something that can't be questioned, something that's gospel, something that's sort of embedded into the catechism and so scratch the average Republican today and he'll say 'Tax cuts, tax cuts, tax cuts,'" he explained.

    "It's rank demagoguery," he added. "We should call it for what it is. If these people were all put into a room on penalty of death to come up with how much they could cut, they couldn't come up with $50 billion, when the problem is $1.3 trillion. So, to stand before the public and rub raw this anti-tax sentiment, the Republican Party, as much as it pains me to say this, should be ashamed of themselves."

    http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/10/28/60minutes/main6999906.shtml?tag=contentMain;cbsCarousel

    or

    http://goo.gl/VcoDq

  2. doesn't anyone find it just astounding that NOT ONE of the Republicans who won election has revealed their ideas of how to balance the budget and get rid of the deficit?

    Obama is a "socialist", a "Marxist", a "big govt guy", a "muslim", a racist… etc…

    but not one word from the winners on how to achieve a balanced budget.

    All these people voted for these guys without knowing how they would accomplish a balanced budget even though their reason for voting for them was our "out of control govt and debt".

    And it's not like these Republicans have a reputation for their ability to balance budgets either – despite that being their mantra.

    In fact – many of them – like Cantor – actively participated in ADDING to the deficit.

    What this election proved to me beyond a shadow of a doubt is that the American people can be sold a bill of goods… that broadcast media funded by anonymous 3rd parties can successfully conduct misinformation campaigns and the American people will swallow it.

    We saw this first with the Swift Boat campaign and the right-wing never looked back after realizing that it not only worked – it was deadly effective.

  3. Anonymous Avatar

    Mr. Bacon:

    Your best columns in WT!

    The only thing more dangerous to the newly minted Elephant Clan Reps and Sens than NOT cutting the spending and raising taxes to regain fiscal sanity is to…

    Do the things the Anger of Ignorance folks are preaching.

    What are those? See the comments on your column in WT.

    As Prof Risse says, the only answer is the three Fundamental
    transformations.

    Within the context of Fundamental Transformations MegaRegions and Regions (NOT STATES) whould (and must) assume many Agency (First Estate) roles that have been kicked up to the nation-state level by default over the past 90 years.

    Observer

  4. Anonymous Avatar

    Observer is right.

    Giving any more resonsibilities to the existing states given their own problems — outlined in Mr. Bacons prior post — would only compound the problem.

    There are no simple answers.

    MGM

  5. Anonymous Avatar

    We would suggest that EVERY short term fix — like the FED pumping $600 B into a failed system — will only make matters worse.

    The NY Big Boys gambling venue jumped 200 points because it is assumed that that $600 B will go into Big Boys pockets. They are right.

    Should make the Elephant Clan PAC contributors happy — for about three months.

    AZA

  6. When the Rove Republicans go back to their old ways, they are just as screwed as the Dems.

  7. Anonymous Avatar

    Darrell is right too.

    Only thing worse will be Palin Republicans.

    Survival gear anyone?

  8. Groveton Avatar

    "They actually do not believe the facts – that taxation is the lowest in 50 years and that most Federal agencies beyond DOD and Homeland Security have not grown in more than 10 years.".

    My corollary …

    "Most non-Redskins fans do not believe the facts – that the Redskins' record has been among the best in the NFL over the past ten years if you exclude teams with winning records.".

    Why do you think you can exclude DoD and Homeland Security?

    Spending is spending, deficits are deficits and debt is debt.

  9. Groveton Avatar

    David Stockman?

    "It’s been nearly three decades since David Stockman was the brash and brilliant enfant terrible of President Reagan’s White House, but he hasn’t mellowed with age.

    The Bush tax cuts are “unaffordable,’’ he says. Extending them would be a “travesty.” President Obama’s stimulus program was “futile.” Ben S. Bernanke, the Federal Reserve chairman, is undermining the whole economy. Today, Stockman says, “I invest in anything that Bernanke can’t destroy, including gold, canned beans, bottled water and flashlight batteries.”

    Dude doesn't seem too happy about anyone or anything.

  10. Groveton Avatar

    More from Stockman:

    "So Congress should allow the Bush tax cuts to expire for everyone.".

    How about that, LarryG?

    The tax cuts expire for everyone?

    Here's another quote from your new found hero …

    "The two parties are in a race to the fiscal bottom to see which one can bury our children and grandchildren deeper in debt. The Republicans were utterly untruthful when they recently pledged no tax increases for anyone, anytime, ever. The Democrats are just as bad — running their usual campaign of political terror on social security and other entitlements while loudly exempting all except the top 2 percent of taxpayers from paying more for the massively underfunded government they insist we need.".

    Actually … maybe this guy is my new found hero.

  11. Stockman is not a new found hero but he is one of very few – and a Reagan Republican at that who is willing to tell the American people the truth about the deficit.

    I point this out in stark contrast to virtually every Republican currently in Congress, including the leadership and including the winners on Tuesday who have assiduously repeating that reality to the people who elected them and that they promise to "fix" government.

    The whole thing is a shameful charade.

    The Republicans have done little more than demagogue the issue – to basically say that govt is out of control and Obama's policies are irresponsible – without once – showing the American people the realities of the deficit.

    Jim Bacon – has made a mini-career and a book out of this.

    Jim is much more polite and restrained in the points he makes about this – unlike my hair-on-fire approach – but Jim Bacon knows the truth also.

    We are not going to "touch" the trillion dollar deficit by going after waste, fraud and abuse.

    And killing Obama_Care is not going to do a single thing to address the CURRENT deficit.

    Rolling back the stimulus and tarp will not do a single thing to reduce the STRUCTURAL deficit.

    We are ADDING to the DEBT – a TRILLION dollars a year over and above and beyond anything Obama has proposed (which CBO says is paid for by the way).

    so instead of dealing with the reality of the CURRENT – decade-long budget – the Republicans do what ? They attack the CBO projections of longer term debt of course.

    Why?

    Because they don't want to deal with the current deficit.

    Groveton – I want you to pay attention to the Republicans in the next few months and two years and watch what they do to deal with the DEFICIT.

    Do you think the Republicans are going to include DOD in the cuts or a tax increase to balance the budget ?

    The Republicans won the latest game of king on the hill.

    Are they actually going to do anything or just tinkle on the shrubbery?

  12. correction"

    " who have assiduously AVOIDED repeating…."

  13. Groveton Avatar

    I have some faith in John Boehner. I met him once. He is a very likable guy. I also read his voting record. It is a very likable record.

    People on the far right and the far left dislike him. Sounds good to me.

    Grew up in a two bedroom house with eleven brothers and sisters. Dude knows what it means to go without.

    Started working at his parents' bar when he was 8 years old.

    Like Obama, he plays too much golf and smokes too many cigarettes.

    Maybe he and The Prez can head to Andrews and tee up a round and talk. Or, sneak out back for a smoke and talk.

    Maybe the two of them will manage to ignore the Nancy Pelosis and Eric Cantors of the world.

    Who knows? Stranger things have happened.

    One thing for sure – Boehner has a helluva tan. Either he's a closet Sicilian or he really does play a lot of golf.

  14. Stockman? Ah yes, the Arnold Punaro of the Eighties. While I was sweating my ass off in the Arabian Sea bird-dogging the Russians, Stockman was busy telling everyone that the military didn't really need all those expensive benefits and toys. If he would have had his way there would still be a Soviet Union, and the military would be left with the Carter era notion of issuing IOUs instead of paychecks.

  15. " President Jimmy Carter's last signed and executed fiscal year budget results ended with a $79.0 billion budget deficit, ending within the period of David Stockman's and Ronald Reagan's first year in office, on October 1, 1981, and provided the benchmark of where the national debt stood at the beginning of the Reagan administration. The gross federal national debt had just climbed to the $1.0 trillion level in October 1981 ($998 billion on 30 September 1981), which was the cumulative fiscal budget results of 205 years as a nation (1776–1981). Four and a half years into the Reagan administration, upon Stockman's resignation at the OMB in August 1985, the gross federal debt level had nearly doubled with the national debt standing at $1.8 trillion on 9 September 1985. Stockman's OMB work within the administration in 1981 up to August was dedicated to negotiating with the Senate and House on the next fiscal year's budget, executed later in the fall of 1985, which resulted in the national debt reaching $2.1 trillion at fiscal year end 30 September 1986 and reaching $2.6 trillion at fiscal year end 30 September 1988."

  16. Groveton Avatar

    The first thing John Boehner can do is tell Lamar Smith to SHUT UP. Threatening to have the House subpoena Administration officials over anything and everything is unhelpful.

    On Wednesday Boehner said the election was no cause for celebration. Right. And no cause for retribution either.

    Enough already with these knucklehead Texas politicians.

  17. Obama got hammered because he made predictions he could not keep.

    He is a rank amateur in the minor leagues compared to some conservative claims.

    "If we cut big government in half we will double our incomes."

    Ok, I'm in. You've got 22 months.

    GO!

  18. Groveton Avatar

    Hey Accurate …

    Just read a comment you wrote a while back.

    I like your politics. For example, you wrote, As we say in Texas –
    "How do you like them apples, boy?"

    I just gotta ask …

    The Cowboys are 1 – 6

    "How do you like them apples, boy?"

    For the record … yes, I am a Redskins fan, yes, the Redskins are 4-4, yes, that's a good record by (modern) Redskins standards.

    But 1 – 6?

  19. Pumping $600 billion sent the stock market up 200 points today.

    That 600 billion paid for itself a few minutes after the market
    Republicans bought a lot of stock today.

    Funny how they say stimulus does not work.

  20. " The Thirty Year History Of Republicans Supporting the Individual Mandate"

    " “The high cost of this bill comes from a non-constitutional mandate.” Minority Leader John Boehner also attempted to bring up the constitutionality of the mandate in a discussion on the deficit."

    " KEY PROVISIONS OF THE HEALTH SECURITY ACT OF 1993
    from Karen Pollitz, Georgetown University Health Policy Institute
    1. Universal Coverage through a Federal Entitlement and an Individual
    Mandate"

    http://www.allhealth.org/briefingmaterials/pollitz-keyprovisionsof1993hsa-1029.pdf

    Sponsor:
    Rep. Clifford Stearns [R-FL6]hide cosponsors
    Cosponsors:
    Richard Armey [R-TX26]
    William Baker [R-CA10]
    Philip Crane [R-IL8]
    Randall Cunningham [R-CA51]
    Thomas DeLay [R-TX22]
    Robert Dornan [R-CA46]
    John Duncan [R-TN2]
    George Gekas [R-PA17]
    Newton Gingrich [R-GA6]
    Porter Goss [R-FL14]
    Rod Grams [R-MN6]
    Melton Hancock [R-MO7]
    Dennis Hastert [R-IL14]
    Duncan Hunter [R-CA52]
    Tim Hutchinson [R-AR3]
    Henry Hyde [R-IL6]
    Thomas Lewis [R-FL16]
    John Linder [R-GA4]
    James Ramstad [R-MN3]
    Christopher Shays [R-CT4]
    James Talent [R-MO2]
    Barbara Vucanovich [R-NV2]

    http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h103-3698

    John Boehner Assumed office
    January 3, 1991

    Interesting … I don't recall the man making the same "un-constitutional" argument back in 1993.

    Do you think he recalls that legislation?

    Do you think Obama recalls that legislation?

    Do you think the two of them could share a cigarette and talk about the difference between the previous Republican insurance mandate and this one?

  21. Groveton Avatar

    "Pumping $600 billion sent the stock market up 200 points today.

    That 600 billion paid for itself a few minutes after the market
    Republicans bought a lot of stock today.

    Funny how they say stimulus does not work.".

    LarryG – I don't consider the Fed's open market transactions to be the same as the stimulus. The fed is buying back federal debt on the open market with cash. This is stock and standard monetary policy which has been going on for decades and has nothing to do with the wasting of money via the stimulus.

    Do you have a different perspective?

  22. Groveton Avatar

    Boehner has routinely differed with Republican leadership.

    FYI …

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/02/11/AR2006021100842.html

  23. Groveton – I did not make the statement about the Feds 600 billion but I will say this.

    There is no free lunch on this.

    What this basically proves is that the Administration and the Fed – FEAR that we'll double dip without more stimulus and they have chosen a path that does not require Congressional approval….

    which really causes more questions in my mind….

  24. " Boehner has routinely differed with Republican leadership"

    that may be – but the man is supposed to be their "leader", no?

    The bigger point here is that the Republicans themselves DID PROPOSE Universal Coverage with an individual mandate…..8 years ago

    and NOW the SAME Republicans say that that provision in Obama_Care is illegal.

    this is more Republican hypocrisy.

    Did you notice the names Delay, Gingrich and Dick Armey on the list of sponsors of that legislation?

    How do you explain their positions now with their votes in 1993?

  25. from the Post Interview:

    " In an interview, Boehner vowed to lead by consensus.

    "This is going to take people a while to realize, but I'm a big believer in allowing all members of the team to participate," he said."

  26. I made the comment about the 600 billion in respose to

    AZA
    11/4/10 11:56 AM

    Who claimed all sort term fixes were useless.

    My point stands, and apparently Groveton agrees, that sometimes government intervention works.

    Some Republicans have been haranguing home the point that it never works and blaming Obama for the stimulus package and the TARP, which Republicans were complicit in.

    I agree with Larry that selling this kind of revisionist history with unlimited undocumented funds is fundamentally dishonest.

    It's the same kind of intellectual dishonesty that goes with using scary but true and also meaningless statistics. Like making claims that the entire economy is falling apart because "50% of all home sales are foreclosures". It sounds vaguely like "50% of all homes are in foreclosure" which is entirely different. If you use something like this in the context of talking about all homes or the entire economy, it is highly likely that it will be misconstrued. Especially by people who are not so smart or well educated.

    Of course a lot of home sales are foreclosures: thats where the bargains are, and if it is forelcosed it has to change hands. It is still a fraction of all homes, and deliberately using a statistic like this to make things sound worse than they are is – dishonest.

    The famous example was the western politician haranguing the loose morals of the Eastern Establishment by claiming that thousands of young men and women were MATRICULATING in those fancy eastern schools.

    Democrats have their own peculiar kinds of dishonesties, but Republicans seem to revel in being perfectly obvious about their logical inconsistencies. Republicans seem to believe that by claiming the high moral and constitutional ground that they can then pick and choose among whatever truths there are to support their position.

    If that doesn't work, they just make some up and DARE you to defy them. Any right thinking American knows Ronald Reagan was the greatest president ever. If you point out some of his more obvious failings, then there must be something that is not right about you and you are un-American.

    This strategy works because there are so many logical fallacies, each supporting the next, that one quickly wears out trying to combat them.

    Now that they have this mandate, it is going to be curious to see if or how they manage to do anything logical with it.

    Ff you beleive that NO government action can stimulate the economy, then you are damned if you do something and damned if you don't do something, because either result is a government action.

  27. Nice cartoon. Uncle Sam stuggling under a huge debt and a tiny little elephant struggling to remove a little piece of it – by throwing it over the side.

  28. I consider myself a fiscal conservative and in fact I have more credentials on that than some of the folks who cast me as a liberal.

    But that being said.

    If you want to claim fiscal conservative principals but you don't want to provide the actions necessary to accomplish it – then you are a fraud.

    And if you say you believe in fiscal conservatism and smaller govt and balanced budgets and you vote for someone who makes that claim but has no track record to prove it and offers no specific cuts to get there what does that make you as a voter?

    DUMB!

    either that.. or you buy into the rank demagoguery and disengenous "cut govt" agendas that they hold.

    The reason we don't have a smaller, more fiscally responsible govt is in large part because of the people who vote for politicians who promise cuts but then refuse to deliver the goods.

    Turnip Truck Voters.

  29. The job of the Tea Party seems to be venting their frustrations.

    They have taken on an unchallenging job because it is so easy to be frustrated.

    It's a whole lot harder to actually do something about it.

  30. this is Ronald Reagan's performance on smaller govt and cutting the debt, getting rid of the deficit and balancing the budget:

    " President Jimmy Carter's last signed and executed fiscal year budget results ended with a $79.0 billion budget deficit, ending within the period of David Stockman's and Ronald Reagan's first year in office, on October 1, 1981, and provided the benchmark of where the national debt stood at the beginning of the Reagan administration.

    The gross federal national debt had just climbed to the $1.0 trillion level in October 1981 ($998 billion on 30 September 1981), which was the cumulative fiscal budget results of 205 years as a nation (1776–1981).

    Four and a half years into the Reagan administration, upon Stockman's resignation at the OMB in August 1985, the gross federal debt level had nearly doubled with the national debt standing at $1.8 trillion on 9 September 1985.

    Stockman's OMB work within the administration in 1981 up to August was dedicated to negotiating with the Senate and House on the next fiscal year's budget, executed later in the fall of 1985, which resulted in the national debt reaching $2.1 trillion at fiscal year end 30 September 1986 and reaching $2.6 trillion at fiscal year end 30 September 1988."

    The Ronald Reagan lovers live and exist in a revisionist history world.

    From that point on – their world is basically what they want to believe – not what actually happened.

    And if the facts disagree with their perceptions then the facts are wrong… data conjured up by evil progressives….

    I can't believe that we have such a stupid electorate…

    but obviously the right wing propaganda machine has figured this out and with the help of totally anonymous money has succeeded in selling to the gullible a vision that is "plausible" but totally false.

    The average self-proclaimed small govt, fiscally conservative Republican voter does not even know the difference between deficit and debt and projected debt.

    They are ALL THE SAME to them.

    and the way to fix them – is cut, cut cut…

    but ask them what to cut and how much and they are totally flummoxed because their right wing media sources did not give them THAT talking point.

  31. Groveton Avatar

    LarryG has grown weary of blaming Bush and is now blaming Reagan.

    Let me know when you've worked your way back to Teddy Roosevelt.

    Meanwhile, Obama continues to prove that he just doesn't get it.

    In a 60 Minutes interview he blames the shellacking of Tuesday's elections on his poor communication skills.

    Nothing wrong with his policies … just a poor job of communicating.

    Holy Mackerel Barack! The only obvious talent you have is communication skills.

    Once again ….

    Dear President Obama:

    Your policies suck.

    Love,

    The American People.

    http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2010/11/05/obama-acknowledges-failures-says-leadership-isnt-just-legislation/

  32. I'm really not into "blame" per se but how much do you know about our debt, it's history.

    Here's a little test for you.

    What was the debt at the end of Reagans presidency?

    ditto Clinton.

    ditto BushII

    what is the CURRENT DEBT?

    what is the CURRENT Deficit adding to that debt?

    what cuts would you make to get rid of the current deficit and get us to a balanced budget so that we'll stop adding to the debt and can start figuring out how to gradually whittle the debt down?

    If you do't know the answers to the questions above and the guy you voted for did not tell you then why did you vote for him (her)?

    Did you vote because they said we spend too much and need to cut – and that was good enough for you?

    See.. I'm not talking about Bush or Reagan here.. nor Bush or Obama…

    I'm talking about how much do voters know about the subject – cut, cut, cut in terms of deficit and debt.

    so far… very little.. eh?

  33. Groveton Avatar

    LarryG …

    Let's say a quarterback is playing in a football game and throws three interceptions in the first half. That's a terrible performance. So, the coach pulls him out of the game and puts in a replacement QB. That QB throws 4 interceptions in the third quarter!!

    Did the first QB put the team in a hole? Yes. Did being in a hole make you pass more than you'd like in an effort to come back? Yes. Is passing a lot part of the reason why you get intercepted a lot? Yes.

    All true.

    But throwing five interceptions in the fourth quarter isn't going to help.

    The QB has to stop throwing interceptions. The excessive passing is leading to too many interceptions which is just putting the team into a bigger hole.

    When you find yourself in a hole the first thing to do is stop digging.

    The voters are telling Obama to stop digging.

    He thinks they don't like the look of the shovel.

  34. Well I don't disagree with Groveton. There is a feeling that we are in deep doo doo and that what Obama is doing with the stimulus is only making it worse.

    That's it in a nutshell.

    The TARP is pretty much going to pay for itself.

    The structural deficit is continuing to add 1 to 1.3 trillion a year to the longer term debt and..here is Obama trying to use Keynesian economics to rescue the economy but in fact only digging the hole deeper.

    I am clearly among the minority who feel that he had no choice but to do the stimulus or let us slide into a great depression.

    But the Republicans are just flat out unprincipled in my view and do not deserve the trust of the people who elected them.

    They have stood by for a decade doing absolutely nothing to cut the deficit an reduce the debt and now they demagogue the issue to get back in control.

    On a straight up comparison they are not much worse than than the Dems EXCEPT they PROMOTE themselves as the good govt, fiscal conservatives who will do what is necessary to get us back on a responsible path.

    The problem is their track record for the last decade betrays them and their refusal to name the cuts that are needed or worse to claim that we can fix the discretionary deficit by cutting SS/Medicare is either out of touch with the realities or a cynical strategy based on their view that voters are essentially ignorant about the issue.

    The fact that over and over when those who say they want smaller govt are asked simple questions about the debt – and the deficit – and they cannot answer those questions – tells me that the latter is what most Republicans are counting on.

    Abject ignorance of the realies and a fervent "belief" much like a religion that the Republicans have the "magic" to make things right.

    Hour after Hour after broadcast hour, FAUX News does not bother to have people on who will tell their audience the truth – with the exception of Ron Paul who is considered a joke by the right and Paul Ryan who is considered a well-meaning neophyte but not a seasoned politician.

    A "young gun"… heh heh…

    Congratulations – we have just voted to kick the can down the road for 2 more years and to look forward after that to another Newt Gingrich/Tom Delay approach to governance.

    That's what we voted for folks.

  35. Accurate Avatar

    Groveton –
    You haven't been following the discussion – I'm in Houston, have been ever since moving from Oregon. The Texans are 4-2 and in Houston we ain't too parshall to the Cowboys. We admit that they come from Texas, but just barely.

    Think Perry will run for President in 2012? All in all not a bad record to run on. To me, even a dead plant is better than Obama.

  36. Accurate Avatar

    Correction, we are 4-3, I forgot a game, got it mixed up with our bye week. And for the Texans, that too is a good record.

  37. On a straight up comparison they are not much worse than than the Dems EXCEPT they PROMOTE themselves as the good govt, fiscal conservatives who will do what is necessary to get us back on a responsible path.

    ==================================

    Their argument that THEY are fiscal conservatives is based on a faulty Laffer curve argument. They claim that by cutting taxes youwill expand the economy and generate MORE taxes at a lower rate.

    In order for that argument to be true the peak of the laffer curve would have to be somewhwre to the left of todays total tax rate, of around 25%. You would have to believe that the shape of the curve is hypergeometric and the peak was way off to the left somewhere.

    Now, Laffer curve beleivers admit that at zero tax rate you get zero revenue. So there MUST be someplace on the curve where if you increase the tax rae you also increase the revenus.

    If you want to have some fun, ask a fiscal conservative at what rate lowering the taxes will no longer increase revenue. They will either avoid the question or give you a ridiculous answer like somewhere between 8% and 15% taxes.

    No modern advanced government is running at those kind of tax rates, but that won't stop a fiscal conservative. if they are really slick they will argue that reducing taxes takes time to stimulate the economy and over the long run revenues will increase.

    This is another stupid version of the short term profits argument I often make fun of. How do you get to long term profits without short term ones? What is the government suppose to do for revenue while it is waiting (an indeterminate amount of time) for those revenues to develop?

    No economist thinks the Laffer curve peak is as low as 8% to 15%.
    Period. No economists beleives an argument like that, and most will tell you the peak might be as high as 70% and certainly it is at least 50%.

    Maybe in places like Somalia with no operating government, taxes are as low a 8%, so why aren't they growing like crazy? Because you have to spend a lot on "protection". Remember what my equation says about external costs.

    But, if you look at Cuba, North Korea, and the former USSR you can see places where the tax rate is essentially 100%, and we can see how well that works.

    To hear fiscal conservatives tell it, we are in danger of becoming socialist or communist Cuba, tomorrow.

    We are a long way from there, but the fiscal conservatives had better hope that the economists are right and the Laffer curve does not peak until around 50%, because taxes are going to go up in spite of whatever spendng cuts we think we might make someday if everyone agrees.

  38. I'm not a believer in the "curves" as much as I am in actual experience and actual experience shows no consistent adherence to the "theory".

    It seemed to have "worked" during Reagan's tenure but not during Bush's yet the "believers" insist that the actual reality just can't be true.

    This gives tons of confidence in the rest of their "beliefs".

    NOT!

    these guys are zealots they believe in their ideology no matter the facts on the ground.

    but the deal-breaker is if you just take a cursory look at the current budget and the current tax revenues – there is no way you're going to balance the budget with the current revenues and no way you're going to find enough cuts to balance the budget.

    That calls for something more than blind allegiance to some cockamamie theory and this is where the wheels come off the Conservative Corvette.

    They have locked themselves into a position where lower taxes MUST create higher tax revenues – or they're gonna take their ball and go home and not play anymore.

    These are the guys that want to be in charge of the country.

    These are the guys that people voted for.

    I can only shake my head.

    They have their revisionist history for the past.

    They have the tax-cutting theories for the present.

    and for the future?

    they don't have a clue.

    They spent the whole time under Bush blathering about supply-side economics and in the meantime added 5 trillion more to the deficit – you know the one that Cheney said "didn't matter".

    These people are FRAUDS.

    They should be ashamed of calling themselves fiscal conservatives…

    Why folks like Groveton and Accurate defend them is beyond me.

    They drove the country into a ditch.. and then kicked dirt on Obama and that's good enough for Groveton and Accurate to re-elect them. Go figure.

  39. Lets assume the fiscal conservatives are right. We can increase revenues by cutting taxes and expanding the economy, but this trickle down takes a long time, like fifteen years (if you are optimistic).

    Obama didn't even get fifteen months.

    Ignoring that and assuming the American voter is suddenly hugely patient, what happens?

    You slash taxes in half, to 15%. Youslash government in half as well to keep the deficit down. Since government was assumed to be 30% of the economy it is now 15%.

    Your 9.5 pecent unemployment immediately hits 11% when those unemployed government workers hit the street. Business says , AHA, now I don't need all those compliance people, so they get dumped and employment hits 15%.

    Tax cut stimulus takes a long time (like maybe never) so this kind of unemployment sticks around for a long time.

    Meanwhile the previous debt is still raking up costs and there is no way to pay it down. And, we cut taxes in half and government in half, but government already wasn't paying for itself, so we cut the deficit in half but didn;t eliminate it. Now the previous government debt is still expanding, but at a lower rate.

    Of course we are paying off at a lower rate too, sure to make our creditors happy. Not to fear though, we'll pay more of it off faster, when those tax cut revenues come flooding in later.

    It is a Grimm Fairytale, only a lot more violent.

    Ever wonder why fiscal conservatives are the same social conservatives that advocate everyone arm themselves and "pack heat"?

  40. It seemed to have "worked" during Reagan's tenure

    ===============================

    How do you figure? He had enormous deficits, for the time. That was back when I had a 10.5% mortgage.

  41. yup – The Republicans had 10 years for their tax cuts to "work" but 18 months was all she wrote for Obama…

    Do you want to know why the Bush Tax Cuts were temporary and not permanent to start with?

    It's because if they were permanent/more than 10 years – that CBO would score them – and CBO does not use the Republican theory for tax cuts.

    CBO's projections show deficits to be the result of tax cuts not increased revenues as claimed.

    None of this matters to the "true believers".

    Facts and actual experience are dastardly crimes against how the theory is "supposed" to work.

    Remember – these are the folks who want to run the country.

    They have a "theory" that has not worked – and they want to continue it because it "must" work or else they will have to actually figure out how to deal with the deficits.

    They are, in many ways, WORSE than the left.

    They live in a dream world that does not match the real world and they are willing to continue their policies no matter whether they actually work or not.

    And in the process.. they are more than willing for the annual trillion dollar deficits to continue and the longer term debt to continue.

    Not a one of them – in the Va Congressional Districts told the people that elected them – the truth about the deficit.

    None of them in Accurate's Texas told the truth save for Ron Paul.

    They all lied – and they all got away with it because the average voter in this country does not know shit from shineola on the facts of the deficit and the debt.

    We've become a sound-bite society – and the reality is what we choose to believe or not – and it has nothing to do with the realities on the ground.

  42. See, I told ya. We're screwed. About time you guys caught up.

  43. Groveton Avatar

    Accurate:

    I managaed to get to the Redskins – Texans game at FedEx. That would be one of your four wins. However, it was a great game. Personally, I think the 'Skins are the worst 4-4 team in NFL history. But I'll keep cheering for them. Kind of like I keep cheering for the Republicans even though they are an almost constant disappointment.

    Gov Perry is an interesting bird. I had to laugh when he shot a coyote with a pistol while he was out jogging. Hopefully, he keeps the gun well secured. I'd hate to see another Plaxico Burress moment. I also laughed out loud when he wrote the letter to teh editor describing why the Cowboys would obviously beat the Redskins in the first game that year. I never did see his retratcion after Dallas lost.

    At least he'd be entertaining.

  44. I don't see that we are screwed.

    I now have health insurance that the company cannot so easily renege or Welch on, like they did last time.

    All the economic indicators are looking up, except government spending, maybe.

    We will need higher taxes to pay for stuff we already bought.

    I don't see that as being screwed.

    But if the Republicans think they can cut taxes, slash maintenance, and services, and r&d, and enforcement, and oversight, and still make big debt payments, then we may have a problem.

    Even if business booms, its not much of a favor to main street if wall street produces a bunch of "business" the likes of tyco, adelphia, worldcomm, and Enron.

  45. Accurate Avatar

    Hydra –
    Regarding Reagan you said – "He had enormous deficits, for the time. That was back when I had a 10.5% mortgage." Well, that would be much less than the 12% rate that was typical under Carter.

    The deficit under Ronald Reagan increased 35 percent, from an inherited deficit (from President Jimmy Carter) of $104 billion in 1980 to a final deficit of $141 billion in 1989. The deficit peaked at $236 billion in 1983, particularly because of the plummet in tax revenue during the recession. It began dropping steadily in 1986, continuing through the 1987 crash. President Obama inherited a record Bush deficit of $400 billion, but generated a far worse $1.8-trillion deficit in his first year. Reagan’s tax cuts didn’t create the deficit. Tax revenues actually boomed from roughly $600 billion in 1981 to $1 trillion in 1989. The primary cause of the deficit was recession and spending, mainly spending — as is always the case. What, exactly, caused the Reagan deficits? There were several factors: the recession of 1982-83, the Reagan defense spending — implemented to turn the screws on the Soviets — the domestic social spending by the Democratic Congress and more. Some reasons were Reagan’s fault; others were Congress’ doing — both share blame in differing degrees.

    Those are the facts, other facts include that the best “stimulus” is one that relies on the tried-and-true American way: letting free individuals and entrepreneurs stimulate the economy through their own earnings and economic activity. Wealth confiscation and redistribution by government collectivists and central planners never works; unfortunately, that is exactly what Obama and the democrats have been trying to do and by doing so have hurt rather than helped the economy.

  46. " Reagan’s tax cuts didn’t create the deficit. Tax revenues actually boomed from roughly $600 billion in 1981 to $1 trillion in 1989. "

    how about a reference to substantiate this?

    And if you're going to say that the economy is what caused some of the deficit for Reagan why do you not give that same credit to Obama?

    " other facts include that the best “stimulus” is one that relies on the tried-and-true American way: letting free individuals and entrepreneurs stimulate the economy through their own earnings and economic activity. Wealth confiscation and redistribution by government collectivists and central planners never works; "

    that's not a fact at all…that's more ideological blather….

    you can believe what you wish to believe but calling them facts is the problem we have right now with a lot of folks.

    It's almost like an alternate universe where Reagan's deficits were not his fault but Obama's are… and tax cuts are better than taxes…no matter what.

    This is how we got the one trillion dollar deficit – and we still have people who basically ignore that deficit..dismissing it as "spending"….

    uh huh…

    but while you're out running all over the ranch.. playing partisan political games.. that deficit is still in the cooker still adding to the longer term debt… which adds to the debt further through interest – and it empowers China more and more and weakens us more and more.

    We spent a decade making similar excuses about the deficit and blathering on about tax cuts.

    When are we going to take responsibility for the deficits and the debt ?

    You cannot make the deficits go away with tax cuts.

    and you can't make the debt disappear with wishful thinking.

    Conservatives cast this as "believing in America".

    No.

    You're actually killing this country with that kind of thinking .. and instead of taking responsibility for what has been done..you're looking to blame others.. Dems… Obama…socialists.. those who would transfer wealth..etc..

    ALL are distractions to the fundamental reality which is being fervently ignored by the folks who say they care the most about the country.

    What hypocrisy it is.

  47. Accurate:

    I'm glad you adhere to the inheritance theory of politics.

    I took that into account. I got my mortgage in 1990, after eight years of Reagan policies had time to erase whatever an entirely ineffectual JC was unable to accomplish.

    No one since Lincoln has inherited a bigger mess than Obama.

    It wasn't until 1993 that I was able to refinance at 6.5%. After 12 years of Republicans wrecking the economy by raiding it for the pockets of a few, my meagre business activities finally floated to the top of the investmt heap.

    It took bush2 to screw things up enough to make borrowing almost free.

    After all, when the ultrarich and a handfull of real crooks have most of the money, what can they possibly do with it all except lend it to schmucks like me.

    Right now, there are not enough people like me (good credit, plenty of equity, and ability to pay) to bid up the price. In fact, on my last finance I got a half point lower by threatening to walk away after I qualified.

    Thank you bush2. You put two grand a month in my pocket. When the seeds of inflation you planted germinate, that two grand quilt be worth one , but the two hundred grand I borrowed will be worth one hundred, and I will be paying it off with dollars worth fifty cents. When I unload the asset, it will be worth many, many more dollars, which of course will also be worth less.

    Obama will get the "blame" for this, but ill still come out ahead, thanks to government interference.

    Why? Because today, I would not be allowed to build the house I borrowed that money on.

    Today, it would not be available at any price.

    The real secret is not that their influence is delayed: it is that presidents don't matter very much.

  48. I agree that Reagan spent the Soviets into bankruptcy. He was able to use the military for stimulus spending.

    But the increase in revenue was due to the tax increases.

  49. cowboys are having a good game tonight.

  50. Larry: China is not empowered by owning our debt any more than the Saudis are.

    Both have an interest in keeping our economy strong so that we can repay it.

    One way that will happen is by making the poor of the world rich enough to buy from us.

    Republicans haven't figured this out yet. They prefer to keep the rich, rich, and the poor, poor.

  51. Then if the port get rich the environment gets poor. Or so EMR/AZA/Observer would say.

    I say it takes a strong economy to pay for a good environment.

  52. Reagan reduced the top tax rate from 70% to 28%. That was probably a good thing, and also retribution for the days Reagan paid a 90% tax rate.

    That is what he is remembered for.

    Not so much (by some parties) for raising social security taxes, and raising taxes by eliminating loopholes (broadening the base) .

    That was because Reagan could not divorce the effect if tax cuts from increasing the deficit in the face if increased defense spending.

    The burden fell even harder on bush 1 for reneging on his promise of no new taxes.

    Overall, Reagan's taxes were in line with the forty year average.

    His tax "cuts" came from indexing the brackets, which amounted to keeping taxes the same, after adjusting for inflation created by escalating the cold war.

    Reagan was a truly great actor.

  53. Reagan reduced the top tax rate from 70% to 28%. That was probably a good thing, and also retribution for the days Reagan paid a 90% tax rate.

    That is what he is remembered for.

    Not so much (by some parties) for raising social security taxes, and raising taxes by eliminating loopholes (broadening the base) .

    That was because Reagan could not divorce the effect if tax cuts from increasing the deficit in the face if increased defense spending.

    The burden fell even harder on bush 1 for reneging on his promise of no new taxes.

    Overall, Reagan's taxes were in line with the forty year average.

    His tax "cuts" came from indexing the brackets, which amounted to keeping taxes the same, after adjusting for inflation created by escalating the cold war.

    Reagan was a truly great actor.

  54. Theories that don't work department.

    Compact fluorescent bulbs are heat in the right application. ( not on dimmers and not when they cycle on and off frequently)

    My wife tore me a new one when I bought miniature CF s to fit our chandelier.

    "They don't look right."

    End of argument.

  55. After 19 wins zenyatta lost by a nose in a spectacular race.

    EMR could have won big by betting against a winner.

  56. " I agree that Reagan spent the Soviets into bankruptcy. He was able to use the military for stimulus spending. "

    That's why I say that govt spending is just as much part of the economy as if taxes were cut and that money spent by taxpayers on something other than the military.

    The govt essentially decides – through taxation – that buying humvees and body armor is more important than big screen TVs and Big Macs.

    The Conservatives say that govt spending for Humvees is "ok" because it's a legitimate need but govt spending on other non-military things is wrong … and they imply that it:

    1. – either goes into a black hole economically

    2. – or that citizens are wiser stewards of that money than the govt.

    To take this one step further.

    Having your cake and eating it too…

    you build humvees but you keep taxes low.

    so you provides "jobs" to those who build Humvees and you pay them with money you don't have because you refused to raise taxes to pay for it.

    so we basically borrow that money from the future – and we call it "debt".

    Those who consider themselves "conservatives" promote this as a "conservative idea" when, in fact, it's an irresponsible idea.

    We have a trillion dollar annual deficit right now because we think we can deploy a world-wide military force structure plus fight two wars…

    and lie to people that the reason for our deficit is – entitlements.

    That's not Conservative in my view.

    That's irresponsible.

    We got into this irresponsible approach after 911 telling ourselves that it was an "emergency" and that cutting taxes would actually increase tax revenues sufficient to pay for the excess military spending.

    When it did not pan out – we made excuses again saing that the economy went into recession.

    So.. basically.. when the tax cuts failed to increase revenues sufficient to keep pace with military spending…we started pretending that non-military govt spending and entitlements was the cause – even though the numbers are pretty clear.

    Taxes are the lowest in 50 years and have not produced increased tax revenues.

    non-military govt agencies have not grown in any major way in more than 10 years.

    and entitlements – funded primarily from FICA – not income taxes – is in deficit – and in theory "covering" the shortfall from it's trust fund – except we have spent the trust fund and now the shortfall is made up with the same income tax funds used to fund the military.

    so the solution according to the Conservatives is obvious.

    Cut the entitlements rather than increase FICA and/or trim benefits, increase retirement age.. etc.. a wide range of reforms are available to put SS/Medicare in balance but the Conservatives – basically would have you believe it's the entitlements that is the cause of the trillion dollar annual deficit.

    The right wing has used the narrative now for a long time and the American people are too DANG STUPID to sit down for a minute and look at the numbers to see what a LIE it is.

    This is why – virtually no Republicans or even Tea Pots has seen fit to tell voters – the simple truth about the deficit.

    This, in turn, has let to a huge polarized divide in the country – all based on a LIE.

    There are literally millions of people out there that believe that tax cuts increase revenues and can balance the budget – and would.. except for entitlements.

    This is why I call some of them the torch and pitchfork crowd.

    Until enough principled people are willing to tell the American people the simple truth…

    we don't even agree on what the facts are.

    It's bad enough to have the country split on conservative vs "progressive" values but it's terrible to have the country split over a refusal to see simple truths.. about the deficit.

  57. Accurate Avatar

    Larry –
    What kills me is the rallying cry of the liberals – 'We need to raise more taxes', which of course, has been changing to 'We need to tax the rich more'. I got a very good lesson in how higher taxes don't (necessarily) translate into more revenue years ago in Oregon. One of the whack jobs in the legislature got the bright idea that by raising the tax on cigars, the state could make 'X' amount of more money/taxes (from that source). Low and behold, a year later, the amount of money coming from that 'tax increase' was less than the revenue prior to the tax increase. No, people who enjoyed cigars either went across the river to Washington state where the tax was cheaper. Or they smoked less cigars, they may have quit all together or found some other way to not pay the extra tax. The state finally decided that maybe that wasn't such a bright idea and put the tax back where it was, revenues sprung to even more than the original amount.

    If you need to raise $100, you can ask one person to cough up/contribute the $100 or ask 10 people for $10 each or ask/request/require 100 people to come up with $1 each. Assuming all methods are successful you will end up with the same amount of money, but which method do you think will work the best? And cause the least amount of complaining/problems. Larry, raising taxes ISN'T the solution and yes, cutting spending IS.

  58. Accurate – tell the Gov of Va about the tax deal.

    He thinks we can tax liquor to pay for roads.

    I think he finally figure it out.

    As far cutting spending – at the national level – I once again – for the 3rd time invite you to tell us how to get one trillion in cuts out of the current budget.

    If you do that – you'll be doing more than 99 44/100% of the guys you vote for have told us.

    They run on a "live within your means" and cut, cut, cut your way to a balanced budget".

    The only problem is all youse guys run and hide in the closet when someone asks you to identify the trillion dollars in cuts.

    At least Jim Bacon gave it a shot – and he came up with around a 100 billion by wiping out 3 cabinets.

    so my question to you Accurate is :

    "Wheres the BEEF"?

    all talk and no action…

    talk – the – talk but no

    walk -the -walk.

    You say the Dems want more taxes.. may be…

    but the Republicans claim to be the "good" kids who want to do the "responsible" thing…

    but just like some "good" kids we all knew.. they were pretty naughty but played the game well.

    how about those cuts Accurate?

    give me a trillion in cuts.

  59. still waiting on Accurate or anyone else who wishes to weigh in on how we cut a trillion dollars from our budget to get us to a balanced budget.

    funny how all these folks voted for the Republicans who ran on a "get rid of big govt and get us back to fiscal sanity" platform and none of them – not the Republicans nor the folks who voted for them have ventured forth on what they would cut to get us to a balanced budget.

    Like I've been saying….

    it's all talk – and no action.

    We had 10 years of the Republicans blathering on about fiscally-responsible government and they did nothing except add a trillion in spending at the same time they cut taxes and now they have provided no plan on how they will achieve a balanced budget.

    Have you noticed the words used by Cantor and company on this issue ?

    They say "make a start".

    That's right.

    they're going to "make a start".

    so I'm asking Accurate …yo GROVETON!

    how about giving us YOUR TRILLION dollars worth of cuts to achieve a balanced budget?

    waiting…….. but not holding my breath for sure…

  60. Accurate Avatar

    (Part 1)
    Larry –
    Why bother? No matter what suggestions were made all you will do is poke holes, whine, complain and tell us how it won't work. First, I'm not privy to the federal budget. Second, I guarantee you that the cuts I find (and the ones I would make if I could) would drain the color from your face. Third, the cuts (as far as I've seen) don't add up to a trillion dollars, but they also slow the deficit spending (something that Obama doesn't have a clue about) which allows us (and hopefully the economy) to start to catch up and whittle away at the deficit.

    You call republicans hypocrites but (as usual) can't find fault with the democrats. You whine about republicans because they talk smaller budgets and smaller government but it still grows. I guess you give a pass to democrats who don't promise that but rather, just say 'Here is the new program that we're going to roll out and we have no idea how we are going to pay for it, but let's sign it into law.'

    However, as a start (and YES I know it's not a trillion dollars) here are a few of my favorite programs that I would cut.

    Repeal unspent stimulus spending ($60 billion). Eliminate Federal Communications Commission funding for school Internet service ($2.25 billion). Repeal the Davis–Bacon Act ($6 billion). Eliminate Federal Communications Commission funding for school Internet service ($2.25 billion).
    Ban project labor agreements on all federally funded construction projects ($2 billion). Eliminate the Small Business Administration, which unnecessarily intervenes in free markets ($1 billion).
    Eliminate the National Community Service programs, such as AmeriCorps ($736 million).
    Eliminate the Institute of Museum Services and Library Services ($253million). Eliminate the National Endowment for the Humanities ($140 million). Eliminate the National Endowment for the Arts ($133 million). Eliminate the Commission of Fine Arts ($10 million).
    Eliminate the additional child refundable credit ($26.6 billion).
    Eliminate Title X Family Planning ($327 million). Eliminate state grants for Safe and Drug-Free Schools and Communities ($298 million). Reduce funding for the Justice Department’s Civil Rights Division by 20 percent ($26 million). Eliminate the State Justice Institute ($4 million).
    Eliminate federal job training programs ($4.3 billion).
    Eliminate the Job Corps ($2 billion).

  61. Accurate Avatar

    (Part 2)

    Eliminate the Development Assistance Program ($2.64 billion).
    Eliminate the State Department’s education and cultural exchange programs ($625 million).
    Eliminate the International Trade Administration’s trade promotion activities or charge the beneficiaries $321 million).
    Eliminate the Democracy Fund ($183 million). Eliminate the International Trade Commission and transfer oversight of intellectual property rights to the Treasury Department ($68 million).
    Eliminate the Trade and Development Agency ($56 million).
    Eliminate the Overseas Private Investment Corporation ($29 million). Eliminate the East–West Center ($19 million). Eliminate the United States Institute of Peace ($17 million). Eliminate the Japan–United States Friendship Commission ($2 million). Reduce National Science Foundation funding to 2008 levels ($1.7 billion). Eliminate National Science Foundation spending on elementary and secondary education ($86 million).

    And yes Larry, I expect you to whine and make fun of the cuts. I don't expect that you will find ANY benefit in doing any of them, all that and more, I expect from you Larry. These are a start, and yes, any and all cuts will hurt folks, that's part of the problem with making government over-reaching, soon the population comes to expect it and depends on it. Time to try to slowly but surely cut the beast down to size. Do I REALLY think the repubicans will do it? 50-50 shot at it, but at least the 'Here's another program and we don't care that we don't have the money' song will slow down, maybe even reverse.

  62. Well Accurate – I don't have a problem with ANY of your cuts. It's more than I've see from most of the folks who say that we need to cut and live within our means so I congratulate for at least making the effort.

    You're right though.

    getting the Trillion is how you really "man up" to the task.

    I DO complain about the Dems – all the time.

    They are acknowledged to be tax&spenders so they don't even try to claim any high ground on the issue although it did take a Democratic President to actually do the deed despite all the Republican blather about balancing the budget.

    Yeah.. I can name cuts… I can name a combination of a trillion in cuts and increased taxes – which is what I bet we get from the Deficit commission whose report is due Dec 1.

    Keep in mind that when Bush received a balanced budget – he also received a long-term debt of about 6 trillion and now it is 13.

    Obama has added about a trillion in addition to the trillion we lost in the annual budget but the other 5 trillion came from Bush and the Republicans.

    All those years they talked about responsible govt – they were themselves adding trillions in more debt.

    I would like to see your trillion in cuts because you have made it clear that's one of the main reasons why you dislike Obama/Dems.

    I say man-up and show me what you stand for.

    No whining. No complaining. No blaming others.

    Just do the trillion.

    Can you do that?

    You got a pretty good start but I'm not sure I saw much more than a 100 billion or so..

  63. Repeal unspent stimulus spending ($60 billion). Eliminate Federal Communications Commission funding for school Internet service ($2.25 billion). Repeal the Davis–Bacon Act ($6 billion). Eliminate Federal Communications Commission funding for school Internet service ($2.25 billion).

    ==================================

    Thats a nice trick if you can save the same 2.25 billion twice.

    But here is the problem. That unspent stimulus money might be unspent but already promised. The design and logistic work is being finalized but the bricks and mortar money has not been spent yet. By canceling the unspent funds you actually wind up wasting all the desing and planning work that has been done.

    Besides that, most of the stimulus money is for work that needs to be done anyway. Accelerating the plan ans spending is sooner makes it stimulus money, but taking away the stimulus designation doesn't save you any money if you wind up doing the (necessary) work anyway.

    Same for school internet. Sure, you can eliminate that funding, but the rrequirement for shool internet is still going to be there. We can saddle our grandshildren with the bill for internet or saddle them with an inferior education becasue they don't have it.

    Same with the Davis-Bacon act. If you do not have to pay the local labor rate for federal projects, the government might save some money. Low cost contractors from out of state (or maybe even from out of country) could bid on government projects in New York. but if the government pays us less money to work for it, it isn't clear that taxpayers as a whole are any better off. Why do I care if I save the government $5 an hour if it costs me $5 an hour?

    "Ban project labor agreements on all federally funded construction projects." Why not ban all labor agreements? Why should government get special treatment? Or, why single out labor?

    In the US anyone is free to organize form a corporation, for any kind of legal businsess they choose, and compete in any market. but, if I choose to organize and form a corporation which sells contract labor services, suddenly I'm a bad guy, and I'm not allowed to organize the same way I would if I was a Hair Cuttery or a Home Owners Association.

    It is one thing to save money, but we cannot throw out the primary role of government (protecting people and property) in the process.

    Eliminate the Small Business Administration, which unnecessarily intervenes in free markets ($1 billion).

    While we are at it, let's eliminate all licensing requirements for barbers, plumbers, and doctors because they interfere in free markets. Much of what SBA does is assist start up businesses with getting over the licensing hump. The way they are "intervening" ia by helping create new businesses which can then compete in the free market.

    Thats a good thing, right? government intervention isn't necessarily bad. And getting rid of it won't necessarily save money: just let your house get wrecked by bad plumbing.

    Lets eliminate museums, libraries and culture, too, and all government support for new stadiums. While we are at it, lets blow up historical cultural Icons like the Taliban did in Afghanistan. There's a sure path to saving money and all it costs us is all of american culture and history.

    Of course most of that stuff will pass into private hands, the same way we save our farms. Like my supervisor said, "My plan for your property is to have some rich person buy it…." We save a lot of (public) money housing library and museum artifats, but it isn't free because we no longer have any public artifacts.

    ETC ETC ETC

    Most of these "cost savings" don't save us any money, they just change who spends the money and who owns the result. This is going to be a lot harder than just, slash and burn.

  64. I think one thing is for sure…

    no …two things…

    1. – we have a 13 trillion debt an are adding to it at the rate of a trillion a year.

    2. – that's not sustainable

    Cutting spending by one trillion dollars with no tax increases is going to be very painful.

    internet for schools is going to be pin pricks….

    Much of the Dept of Educations Federal budget funds schools at about a thousand dollars per student and focuses on kids who are slow learners.

    The Feds also fund the school lunch programs and a plethora of other educational programs.

    If the Republicans are truly serious abut getting to a balanced budget ( I don't think they are… that's why I call them FRAUDS).. but let's give them the benefit of the doubt.

    Then the Dept of Education is going to be sliced to the bone as well as the Dept of Transportation.

    We'll do away with the Federal Gas Tax and de-fund all the transit systems as well as the interstates and it will be left up to the states to decide if they want to make up the shortfalls.

    I'm expecting the Republican-controlled House of Representatives to deliver to the country -the balanced budget they promised and anything less than that is going to expose them a hypocrites.

    If you are going to run on a "get govt out of our lives" and "live within our means" and pass a balanced budget Constitutional amendment – I expect to see these folks "deliver" their promises.

    And I think we ought to hold them to it.

    They don't need to wait until 2012 to do anything.

    All they have to do is deliver to the Senate a balanced budget and stand back and watch the Democratic Senate either get on the bus with them or not.

    Anyone want to bet whether or not the Republicans deliver a balanced budget?

  65. "We'll do away with the Federal Gas Tax and de-fund all the transit systems as well as the interstates and it will be left up to the states to decide if they want to make up the shortfalls."

    ================================

    And no one believes that will actually save us money.

    Whether the feds pay it, the states pay it, or no one pays it, it will cost us money.

  66. Here's one way to think about this.

    Many people simply believe the govt has gotten too big and is doing too many things – all of them with "good" intentions and even good "outcomes" but just like with our home budgets – we cannot simply spend for things that we think we want especially if it means going into hock.

    So there is this big movement now to put govt back in the box it belongs in.

    Will the swinging ax work as good as a scalpel?

    Nope.

    but I think that axe is going to swing….

    and if we cut something too important… they might put it back.

    I think that's where we're headed.

  67. "'Tea partyers' oppose changes to Fountain Hills trash collection'

    A Valley community's decision to change the way trash is picked up provided further proof of how deeply the nation's anti-government, "tea party"-fueled sentiment is running.

    A decision by the Fountain Hills Town Council to hire a single trash hauler and begin a curbside recycling program has been met with angry protests from residents who accuse town leaders of overstepping their bounds and taking a leap toward socialism."

    http://www.azcentral.com/community/scottsdale/articles/2010/11/07/20101107tea-party-trash-fountain-hills.html

    ==============================

    One of my friends pointed out that it is a slippery slope: first municipal trash collection and next, socialism.

  68. If I want curbside pickup, I have to pay a private hauler.

    I'd be totally opposed to the county hiring that hauler and paying him with taxes because then that hauler would have no incentive to be efficient.

    When your profit derives from your efficiency – you pay a lot more attention to your operating costs.

    As soon as the govt gets involved, the operating costs just become whatever they are.. and if they go up.. the response is not to find out why but to increase taxes to cover it.

    Ray – you use this same exact argument when talking about how METRO operates – right?

    I'm actually with the Tea Pots on some of this stuff – but I believe it should START at the local level and then work up to State and Federal by demanding that they operate as efficiently as local govt operates.

    We can't make that argument right now in many areas… as the local taxation and efficiency is as bad or worse that the State/Fed behaviors.

  69. so I've not heard from anyone on how to cut a trillion dollars from out budget and get a balanced budget.

    not a peep from all these folks talking about "out of control govt".. socialism… waste, etc.

    I guess they only comment when they want to complain but have nothing to offer in the way of solutions?

    Jim Bacon – excluded.. he wrote a DANG book on the subject!

    and I never heard from anyone on the 1993 Health Care Legislation sponsored by Republicans:

    H.R. 3698:
    Consumer Choice Health Security Act of 1993

    Sponsor:
    Rep. Clifford Stearns [R-FL6]
    Cosponsors:
    Richard Armey [R-TX26]
    William Baker [R-CA10]
    Philip Crane [R-IL8]
    Randall Cunningham [R-CA51]
    Thomas DeLay [R-TX22]
    Robert Dornan [R-CA46]
    John Duncan [R-TN2]
    George Gekas [R-PA17]
    Newton Gingrich [R-GA6]
    Porter Goss [R-FL14]
    Rod Grams [R-MN6]
    Melton Hancock [R-MO7]
    Dennis Hastert [R-IL14]
    Duncan Hunter [R-CA52]
    Tim Hutchinson [R-AR3]
    Henry Hyde [R-IL6]
    Thomas Lewis [R-FL16]
    John Linder [R-GA4]
    James Ramstad [R-MN3]
    Christopher Shays [R-CT4]
    James Talent [R-MO2]
    Barbara Vucanovich [R-NV2]

    notice the names… Delay, Gingrich, Armey, ……

    Here's the Act itself:

    KEY PROVISIONS OF THE HEALTH SECURITY ACT OF 1993

    1. Universal Coverage through a Federal Entitlement and an Individual
    Mandate
    • Individuals must pay roughly 20% of health insurance premium
    • Liability capped at 3.9% of income
    • Enforced by retroactive enrollment/fines – administered by Alliance
    2. Subsidies for Families
    • Premium subsidies pegged to average cost plan
    • Full premium subsidies to 150% FPL; phase out at 250% FPL
    • Cost sharing subsidies also available
    • Additional subsidies for early retirees
    • Subsidies administered by Alliance

    http://www.allhealth.org/briefingmaterials/pollitz-keyprovisionsof1993hsa-1029.pdf

    How come the Republicans were in favor of Obama_Care when it was their legislation but they opposed it when it was Obamas?

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