Bacon's Rebellion

Democracy Thrives in Sunlight

New Questions about the Cloverleaf Deal

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by

James A. Bacon
in

A week ago I praised plans to redevelop Cloverleaf Mall, a failing mall in a declining district of Chesterfield County. As an alternative to subsidizing growth and development on the metropolitan periphery, I argued, state and local governments need to be more aggressive about in-fill development and redevelopment in areas already served by road networks and other infrastructure. A proposal to convert the old mall into a mixed-use project with more than 500 homes seemed like exactly the kind of development the Richmond region needs.

Now comes Style Magazine with some tough questions: “How many millions in financial incentives is the county willing to kick in? If pushed to the wall, is Chesterfield willing to use eminent domain to gain control of the remaining land?”

It turns out that the Richmond Christian Center, an African-American church, is willing to pay $7 million to acquire 15 acres of the proposed 83-acre site. Crosland Inc., the developer favored by the County, has agreed to pay $9.25 million for the mall buildings, but that price tag does not include the land the mall actually sits on. And that’s just where the story starts to get complicated. Read the Style article.

While infill and redevelopment are critical strategies for creating viable New Urban Regions, they must follow the same guidelines as all other development: It needs to pay its own way. Considering that the land is often undervalued and much of the infrastructure is already in place, that shouldn’t be a high hurdle. Let’s hope that the bean counters in Chesterfield County are keeping a sharp eye on this deal.

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12 responses to “New Questions about the Cloverleaf Deal”

  1. Larry Gross Avatar
    Larry Gross

    I had asked in another thread what a comp plan might look like for a Balanced Community.

    Is it just a blob on a map or is there a core and “petals”, etc?

    Be that as it may…. it would seem –

    1. that folks agree that you don’t tear down .. you evolve towards balanced communities .. and that would imply, at least to me, that certain kinds of redevelopment are better than others; indeed some may be inappropriate.

    So in this particular case… what guidance could be provided to planners with regard to appropriate infill development.

    Note also… that in MOST situations involving evolutionary balanced communities that there will NOT be transit service necessarily available in the form factor desired…. so the fall back for mobility would have to be auto?

    I ended with a question mark on purpose…. ???

  2. Groveton Avatar
    Groveton

    As of 2004 Chesterfield County had the 11th highest household income of the 135 political entities in the state of Virginia.

    http://www.ers.usda.gov/Data/Unemployment/RDList2.asp?ST=VA&SF=11A

    At a high level, it seemd like there would be plenty of demand for housing and retail.

    Why would the county even consider funding this project – let alone exercising eminent domain?

  3. E M Risse Avatar
    E M Risse

    Larry:

    Great questions!

    We could do 40 pages on the topic but only have time for this:

    Great questions and you are on the right track.

    For the first Subregional Plan we did for two counties in Upstate New York we drew what I now call Clear Edges around all the urban enclaves.

    Then we added jobs, housing, service to each to move toward every one of them toward what we now call Balance.

    Next we grouped enclaves (most were Village scale or smaller) to create Community scale groupings and added more ingredients to achieve Community Balance.

    Since these were reletively self-contained mill and agri villages it worked well.

    Years later I discovered others had found a theoretical basis for doing that based on work in Bavaria and elsewhere.

    The plans for the National Capital Subregion from the 60s had a Clear Edge around the Core and Balanced Communties in the Countryside laced together with shared-vehicle systems and roadways.

    It is just that they did not use that language and you have to have an overarching Conceptual Framework in mind to see the connections.

    Actually the 1958 Comp Plan for Fairfax County has an earie (sp?) resemblance to the 2004 population density map. The problem is lack of balance in the Community Cores.

    Two things working in favor of evolving Balnaced Communities in the National Capital Subregion:

    Inside the logical location of the Clear Edge around the Core and around the urban enclaves in the Countryside the settlement pattern is such swiss cheese (Vacant and Underutilized Land) that there is plenty of room to evove balance.

    Second, there is so much vacant and underutilized land around METRO stations that if the station areas were was balanced both for each station and for the whole system (a complex process but do able) there is plenty of capacity for travel between Balanced Village Cores and room for development.

    As you can tell, the issue is balance and helping the market achieve balance, not providing incentives for disaggregaion and scatteration.

    Keep up the good work…

    EMR

  4. Groveton Avatar
    Groveton

    EMR – Where is the vacant or underutilized land around the METRO stations? In Virginia?

  5. nova_middle_man Avatar
    nova_middle_man

    Merrifield is being built up but the condos are more than 1/2 mile away and you have to cross the busy intersection with 29 to get to the metro

    The only other underutilized metro I can think of is Vienna

    As long as we are playing the ask EMR questions game

    What is your view about what happened in Vienna when Metrowest was rejected

    That was a case of the people rising up and saying the infrastructure cannot support additional development

  6. Groveton Avatar
    Groveton

    Nova – That’s about how I see it too. In fact, I used to live near Dun Loring. There was a small horse farm across the street from the METRO station. Now it’s condos. And – I guess I’ve lived a lot of places – I lived on 6th steet in Arlington in the early 80s. One block off Wilson Blvd. One mile west of Ballston. The METRO stations were surrounded by junk stores and run down housing. Now it’s condos, nice town homes and high end retail (and the Hard Times Cafe but some things should stay regardless of development). Arlington and Fairfax Counties did a good job of using the METRO stations to build multi-use “enclaves”.

  7. nova_middle_man Avatar
    nova_middle_man

    Arlington and Fairfax Counties did a good job of using the METRO stations to build multi-use “enclaves”.

    humm inner Arlington maybe

    Fairfax (east falls church on out)just has housing so there is no mixed use.

    In fact that was one of the other reasons Metrowest failed. People felt it had too much residential with minimal commercial and business

    There is almost another housing/jobs imbalance flaw just like between Fairfax and the outer countes. In this case all the Jobs are in the center of the metro lines and more of the housing is on the outside

    I submit it would be pretty hard to add more housing directly around Metro center but making DC more attractive helps and there is more housing going up within walking distance of the downtown DC metros. It would be fairly easy to add more jobs to the outside stations.

    The Springfield redevelopment is trying to fix this by having more business near the metro. They at least have residential and commercial already.

    http://www.fcrevit.org/springfield/maps.htm

    Does anyone know if it is possible to walk from the Dunn Loring metro to the office park (located along fairview park drive). Is there a shuttle at least?

    points of reference newest condos are going up on the west side of Gallows road between 29 and 50
    The metro is basically at the intersection of prosperity and gallows

    http://www.fcrevit.org/merrifield/maps.htm

    Cloverleaf Chesterfield Richmond yeah… 🙂 I can tie it back with this look

    http://www.fcrevit.org/incentives/currentquickouter.htm

    Look at all the incentives free market what free market 🙁

  8. Larry Gross Avatar
    Larry Gross

    The Chesterfield situation could be viewed as an “opportunity” to PROMOTE balanced communities by:

    1. – Providing a MODEL Comp Plan TEMPLATE

    2. – Providing MODEL ordinances to implement balanced community standards and policies.

    This is what I mean in that it’s one thing to have an advocacy – and it’s another thing as to what is done with that advocacy.

    For instance – with LID – Low Impact Development that ADVOCATES natural filtering of runoff to reduce adverse impacts to waterways AND the need for expensive storm water infrastructure –

    they have provided model ordinances and templates that illustrate how to change the existing ones so as to ALLOW and ACCOMODATE LID because, as EMR and JW stated earlier, some places actually PROHIBIT policies that would enable the locality to receive a balanced community proposal.

  9. E M Risse Avatar
    E M Risse

    Groveton:

    Where is V and U land near METRO stations? Duck Soup.

    First look at Blueprint for a Liveable Region often cited by Jim W.

    For the numbers on one station look at footnote 9 of “The Problem With “Mass” Transit” at db4.dev.baconsrebellion.com which is a rewrite of a 28 March 2006 posting on this Blog.

    EMR

  10. Groveton Avatar
    Groveton

    No – you can’t walk from Dunn Loring to Fairview Park. Or, I should say, it would be a very long haul on foot. I have never seen a shuttle bus although there is Metro bus coverage.

    As for looking at the “Blueprint for a Livable Region” – I’ll do that.

    However, I also have the advantage of being able to look directly at the areas around the METRO stations. And I’ve had that advantage since the METRO was built. That’s because I actually live in Fairfax County and previously lived in Arlington County.

    Could it be better? No doubt.

    Is the trend going the right way? Absolutely!

    Wilson Boulevard was a disaster when METRO opened it’s stations in Arlington. Over time it has improved immeasurably in the very way that people on this blog want.

    Dunn Loring was a mish-mash of light industry, low end retail, run down apartments and a small horse farm in the mid 80s. Now, it’s got office buildings, better retail, new condos, etc. Definitely on the right track.

    East and West Falls Church need work. However, I think that’s inevitable. Things just need to get to the point where knocking down the existing structures is justified by the value of building new structures. It will happen.

    Vienna METRO – I just don’t know. Haven’t been there any time recently. However, the whole town of Vienna has tremendous potential. I did live just east of the Town of Vienna for about 4 years. Every time I jogged down Rt 123 (or Main St as I recall) to get to the bike path I thought of Wilson Blvd. in Arlington. Vienna isn’t nearly as run down as Wilson Blvd got but it has that same “Main Street” potential.

  11. E M Risse Avatar
    E M Risse

    Groveton:

    “I don’t know” is the most accruate thing you said in the above post.

    First you ask where you can find about METRO station area V and U land and then you say you cannot walk from Dunn Loring to Fairview Park. What has that to do with the information provided?

    Have you seen the plans for the new Dunn Loring station area development?

    Station Ares are 500 + / – ares within 1/2 mile of station platform not miles away as is the case with Fairview Park.

    If you want information read with care the responses, you convince no one with nonsequitors.

    EMR

  12. E M Risse Avatar
    E M Risse

    No Va Middle Man:

    Sorry, I missed your question.

    The citation I gave Groveton has a complete rundown of the METRO West case. The original post here on the Blog was titled METRO West, 22 Years Too Late and has the data on V & U land within 1/2 mile that will still V & U even after all the now approved projects are built out.

    EMR

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