Bacon's Rebellion

Democracy Thrives in Sunlight

New Admissions Policy for Thomas Jefferson High School for Science and Technology Will Stand

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by

Dick Hall-Sizemore
in , ,

Thomas Jefferson High School for Science and Technology

The U.S. Supreme Court today declined to hear the appeal of the Coalition for Thomas Jefferson challenging the decision of the Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals that upheld the changes in the admissions policy for the Thomas Jefferson High School for Science and Technology.  The result is that the changes in the school’s admission policy adopted by the Fairfax County School Board in 2020 will stand.  Justices Thomas and Alito dissented from the decision not to grant certiorari.  (Their dissents begin on page 30 of the linked document.)

This issue has been discussed extensively on this blog.  For some background, see here.

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69 responses to “New Admissions Policy for Thomas Jefferson High School for Science and Technology Will Stand”

  1. DJRippert Avatar
    DJRippert

    Good for the Supreme Court. The new application process is a flawed, woke idea. However, states and localities have the right to implement flawed, woke ideas.

    The amount of political hackery being conducted under the guise of lawfare needs to end.

    Trump should never have been charged with fraud in New York and Mayorkas should never have been brought up for impeachment.

    1. walter smith Avatar
      walter smith

      You’re half right. Mayorkas should have been impeached Jan 5 2022. Of course the corrupt Democrats will vote to absolve, but the public will see the evidence and create the pressure for the Dems to vote like they care about the country and not just power…
      The lawfare against Trump is beyond despicable, and I am ashamed of the legal profession, a politicized judiciary and UVA Law, which no longer cares about civil rights, only “saving our democracy” through TDS…

      1. DJRippert Avatar
        DJRippert

        I think you have to break the law to justify impeachment. Clinton did (perjury), Trump didn’t and Mayorkas didn’t.

        Simple incompetence should not be an impeachable offense.

        1. WayneS Avatar
          WayneS

          Simple incompetence should not be an impeachable offense.

          True.

          The correct thing would be for president Biden to fire him. Unfortunately, I think Mr. Biden wants incompetence in that position.

        2. walter smith Avatar
          walter smith

          No, no…beyond incompetence. Intentional. And the NGOs involved are breaking the law, too. The real RICO is the money cycle of govt spending going to NGOs and the academy and funding BS “studies” along with illegal student loan forgiveness…
          Mayorkas also has committed perjury.

      2. Stephen Haner Avatar
        Stephen Haner

        Nobody not glued to Fox News will hear anything about the doomed case against Mayorkas. Nobody not already voting for Trump will give a damn, Walter. Mayorkas is following orders. Beat his boss in November or get used to it….

        The Stupid Party in action once again, wasting time and money.

      3. Stephen Haner Avatar
        Stephen Haner

        Nobody not glued to Fox News will hear anything about the doomed case against Mayorkas. Nobody not already voting for Trump will give a damn, Walter. Mayorkas is following orders. Beat his boss in November or get used to it….

        The Stupid Party in action once again, wasting time and money.

        1. walter smith Avatar
          walter smith

          I disagree on the futility. I agree that Trump has to win. And I agree on the Stupid Party, so 2 out of 3 ain’t bad.

  2. UVAPast Avatar
    UVAPast

    Must the Republicans use lawfare too?

    1. Teddy007 Avatar
      Teddy007

      Republicans could actually try to win elections outside of deep red district and then change the policy.

      1. Nancy Naive Avatar
        Nancy Naive

        With dwindling numbers? That’s gonna take a whole lotta suppression.

    2. DJRippert Avatar
      DJRippert

      No. They shouldn’t. I think that a two tiered justice system is one of the few things that could potentially create the atmosphere for widespread violence in the United States.

      Hard as it may be to resist, Republicans should resist using lawfare to achieve political ends.

      1. Not Today Avatar
        Not Today

        Like the Watts and LA uprisings? Surprisingly, we agree. Two-tiered and/or opportunistic views of justice do create animosity.

  3. LarrytheG Avatar
    LarrytheG

    “Lawfare” is not going away , especially with a conservative SCOTUS and a large number of folks more than willing to challenge things that they have long-standing opposed but
    now have the court they want/need to get things overturned.

    Just the beginning….

    and yes… gonna gin up the other side also…

    great occupation to be in these days! UVA Law ought to be
    going gangbusters!

  4. Not Today Avatar
    Not Today

    Any change in the performance metrics of TJ grads or nah?

    1. Nancy Naive Avatar
      Nancy Naive

      Is white a performance?

      1. Not Today Avatar
        Not Today

        It certainly isn’t fixed and immutable as applied to people groups.

      2. Teddy007 Avatar
        Teddy007

        The percentage of white students did not really change. What changed is fewer Asians and more blacks and Hispanics.

        1. Not Today Avatar
          Not Today

          Did the academic performance of the student body decline? This was the argument advanced three years ago. If the performance and student outcomes remain exceptional but only the ethnic makeup of the student body now more closely mirrors the district, the issue isn’t merit and never was. Rather, the notion of equal access to opportunity for black and brown people is what offends because given opportunities, the children are thriving.

        2. DJRippert Avatar
          DJRippert

          Oh Teddy – there you go … muddying the water with facts again.

          Those pesky “people of color” known as Asians.

          Constantly getting in the way of liberal ideas with their hard work, respect for education, belief in the American dream, etc.

          1. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            What is wrong with TJ having the same percentages of color/race/ethnicities as the population is – as long as they all meet the minimum academic standards?

            Shouldn’t it be representative of society?

          2. Warmac9999 Avatar
            Warmac9999

            Shouldnt it have the lgbtq rainbow? Or import some eskimos? Or now illegal immigrants? Or god forbid Russians. The list is endless.

          3. Not Today Avatar
            Not Today

            Inuits are Americans. They aren’t goods to import. They are indigenous Americans. Are you?

          4. Not Today Avatar
            Not Today

            Inuits are Americans. They aren’t goods to import. They are indigenous Americans. Are you?

          5. Warmac9999 Avatar
            Warmac9999

            They aren’t Virginians. The are nearly 5000 miles away from Thomas Jefferson HS.

          6. Not Today Avatar
            Not Today

            They are Americans and whether they live in VA or not, are PEOPLE not goods.

        3. Not Today Avatar
          Not Today

          Did the academic performance of the student body decline? This was the argument advanced three years ago. If the performance and student outcomes remain exceptional but only the ethnic makeup of the student body now more closely mirrors the district, the issue isn’t merit and never was. Rather, the notion of equal access to opportunity for black and brown people is what offends because given opportunities, the children are thriving.

          1. Teddy007 Avatar
            Teddy007

            that a few students at the bottom of the senior class will have to go to Virginia Tech instead of UVA will have no long term impact on anything.

          2. Not Today Avatar
            Not Today

            You have data to support that these students are largely at the bottom of their class?

          3. Teddy007 Avatar
            Teddy007

            The students admitted under the new system but would not have been admitted under the old system would generally be considered overmatches at TJ. Remember, no matter who is admitted, someone is going to be at the bottom of their class. Under the old system, those at the bottom eight transferred back to their neighborhood high school or enrolled at UVA.

          4. Not Today Avatar
            Not Today

            So that’s a no on data.

          5. Teddy007 Avatar
            Teddy007

            The students admitted under the new system have not reached graduation yet. But to claim that the worst students admitted under the new system are not overmatches is laughable.

          6. Not Today Avatar
            Not Today

            They are juniors. There are three years of data. If there were data to support the claims you’ve made, surely the plaintiffs would have used it.

            There’s a reason why freakonomics is such a good read. What you think and what is real don’t always match. You have nothing.

            Strange times we live in. I’m old enough to remember conservatives championing the proportional allocation model of distributing access to scarce resources (see Texas Top 10…9…6 plan) as an equally valid way of ensuring meritorious and diverse admissions.

          7. Teddy007 Avatar
            Teddy007

            The first class under the new system are seniors. And the Supreme Court is operating under a doctrine that no one talks about: The courts are not suppose to care if politicians screw over their constitutes just as long as politicians are not violating anyone civil rights. And of course, admissions based upon a meritocracy is not a civil right.

          8. Not Today Avatar
            Not Today

            So, by your own admission, there are four years of data that could be mined. I look forward to discovering if predictions of widespread mediocrity are real or imagined.

          9. Teddy007 Avatar
            Teddy007

            No one made predictions of widespread mediocrity. The first question should be whether all of the students at TJ are taking the same level of classes at the same time and in the same order or did the school have to implement some form of tracking to let the best students achieve more than the quota students.

          10. Not Today Avatar
            Not Today

            The referenced thread from three years ago did. Even at MIT the students don’t all take the same courses in the same order at the same time. That’s not a thing. Being exceptional in math doesn’t make one exceptional in English or world languages.

          11. Teddy007 Avatar
            Teddy007

            College is not high school. In college, one has a major. At a STEM magnet high school, everyone should be taking the same science and math classes. But they do not any more.

          12. Not Today Avatar
            Not Today

            That is not the experience shared by friends who attended a different state’s residential boarding school for STEM. I’m curious about the mental health of TJ students under the regimented system of old. Depression, anxiety, suicidal ideation, any indications those were an issue?

          13. Not Today Avatar
            Not Today

            Do you have any idea how many students fall into this group or how they’ve fared?

          14. Teddy007 Avatar
            Teddy007

            From https://www.insidenova.com/headlines/thomas-jefferson-sees-increased-diversity-after-admissions-changes/article_0e5a24fa-d696-11eb-a4a8-af989d5a3338.html

            “while other demographics saw significant upticks, Asian student representation decreased from 74.4% to 54.4%.” and “The numbers of Black and Hispanic students accepted shot up by 550% and 287.5%, respectively, compared with the class of 2024.”

            So Asian students took the biggest hit and blacks were the biggest beneficiaries. Of course, when one believes that everyone is capable of mastering calculus, such race-based admissions make sense.

          15. Not Today Avatar
            Not Today

            You’ve no idea what these students have accomplished in their three years so why are you smearing them?

          16. Teddy007 Avatar
            Teddy007

            One would be better off saying that no one has any idea of what is going on and probably never will since the results will be hidden. I can tell you from judging at the Fairfax County science fair that the quality of the TJ presentations has gone down.

          17. Not Today Avatar
            Not Today

            And you don’t see any connection to the pandemic? Just student quality?

          18. Teddy007 Avatar
            Teddy007

            No, all the students used to be required multiple years of calculus but no more. They have moved statistics do to ninth grade to improve the quality of science experiments.

          19. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            If standards are established and met by applicants and there are more applicants than there are slots, how is the next step accomplished? Pure academic merit?

          20. Teddy007 Avatar
            Teddy007

            The issue was how does one determine pure academic merit. Another issue with the entrance test is that it covered topics and information not covered in Fairfax County public schools. Thus the need for tutoring and cram schools to prepare for the test. The same thing happens in NYC with the seven exam high schools.

          21. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            So how is that taken into account for kids that did not have those advantages?

          22. Not Today Avatar
            Not Today

            Short answer: it wasn’t.

          23. Teddy007 Avatar
            Teddy007

            Under the old system, it was not taken into account. That is why the system was changed. The problem is that a holistic review is just a method of hiding racial/gender/ethnicity quotas.

          24. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            All things equal – two kids and one gets tutoring and boot camp out the wazoo and the other does not , they are not “equal” when they apply for admission.

          25. Teddy007 Avatar
            Teddy007

            But there is no way for the admission process to determine who has had tutors and cram school and who has not.

          26. DJRippert Avatar
            DJRippert

            Black and Brown people had access to Thomas Jefferson when the admissions were decided by a color blind entrance exam.

          27. Not Today Avatar
            Not Today

            That’s not what the data showed, either that they had access or that the weight placed on the exam was ‘color-blind’. Exams are, at best, neutral never blind.

          28. DJRippert Avatar
            DJRippert

            By that argument, the NBA is a horribly racist organization. How can it possibly be fair that 70+% of NBA players are Black while Blacks comprise 14% of the US population?

            Perhaps the right remedy would be for the NBA to introduce a lottery for 25% of each team’s roster.

            Meanwhile, there are just under 4% Black players in the NHL.

            Time for another lottery?

          29. Not Today Avatar
            Not Today

            Oh stahp. This tired comparison assumes there aren’t multiple inputs/measures of merit in sport too. There are, to include temperament, character, heart, health… that can’t be assessed merely with past performance or high/weight/body mass.

          30. DJRippert Avatar
            DJRippert

            Professional sports is a very merit based system.

            The fact that 70% of NBA players are Black has no basis in prejudice or racism.

            Once upon a time, admissions to TJ were a very merit based system.

            Asians predominated at TJ just like Blacks predominate in the NBA.

            Presumably because those Asian students had more “temperament, character, heart, health” than the non-Asian students trying to get into TJ.

          31. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            Sports is not at all “merit” based the same ways schools are said to be , right?

            In fact, in terms a academic merit, sports pretty much fails.

            For the rest of society, doctors and police are not merit-based but rather for any who meet the standards of that profession.

            Same with the military. They don’t hire by “merit”, they hire according to those that meet the standards.

          32. Not Today Avatar
            Not Today

            Are you sure about that? What did the closing of public pools, and the restriction of access to swimming, do to the participation rate of black and brown people in a sport (like basketball) with an otherwise low barrier to entry?

            Hockey is not a low-barrier to entry sport and its popularity is more regional. TJ admission wasn’t low-barrier either.

          33. WayneS Avatar
            WayneS

            Hockey is not a low-barrier to entry sport and its popularity is more regional.

            What region are you talking about?

          34. Not Today Avatar
            Not Today

            Generally, the upper Midwest and East, some northwest. Hockey is an extremely high barrier to entry sport that has fans all over but it requires rinks and PAID rink time. Low-barrier to entry sports are, like soccer, basketball, track and field, able to be participated in and excelled in even by those with limited means.

          35. Not Today Avatar
            Not Today

            Why are you so reluctant to engage with the FACT that proportionate allocation is a conservative/Republican policy or that modern conservatives also oppose improving access to opportunity in elementary schools?

          36. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            more money for tutoring and boot camp, etc… Many Asians are high income immigrants. look at the median per capita/household income in NoVa by race.

  5. killerhertz Avatar
    killerhertz

    Ya’ll need to stop holding government schools in such high esteem.

    The ridiculousness of COVID era compliance was indicative of how incapable multiple generations were at thinking critically.

  6. Stephen Haner Avatar
    Stephen Haner

    It is possible to graduate from just about any other high school in Virginia with enough preparation in math and science to succeed at a major university. The bragging rights that come from a school like TJ, the benefit of being in that competitive pressure cooker, might help with MIT or Haaaaavaaaaard but is unnecessary for Tech or Texas A&M or Purdue. A group of parents built an asset of value to the high energy students, and the jealous who won’t admit failure is their own fault have broken it. Move on.

    Math and science ability has no racial component. And fighting your way into TJ is meaningless without the preparation that started back in elementary school or the work ethic that comes from your home. The highly prepped motivated kids kept out of TJ are going to be just as successful a decade later, and those who can’t cut it won’t be, despite the credential. Move on.

    1. Not Today Avatar
      Not Today

      Ironically, I’ve heard the exact same thing said about distributing access to high performing elementary schools spouted by Bay Area parents. Leveling the playing field isn’t the goal, maintaining a stranglehold on opportunity by zip code is.

      Any guess as to why conservatives advocated this proportional allocation model when affirmative action in its original form actually DID pull in talented URMs based primarily on test scores? Seems like a classic case of either/both being hoisted on their own petard or being disingenuous in their promotion of equal opportunity.

      1. DJRippert Avatar
        DJRippert

        And that stranglehold is maintained by … White supremacy? Systemic racism?

        If so, in the future, to be intellectually honest, could you please use the term White/Asian supremacy? Or, systemic racism (except for Asians)?

        Those pesky Asians – completely destroying the liberal narrative of pervasive racism.

        1. Not Today Avatar
          Not Today

          The stranglehold on power is always maintained by those who have it and are afraid to lose it. It’s a sign o’ the times, same thing is apparent in conservative disdain for representative government on abortion access. They don’t favor conservation of anything but power and wealth.

        2. Not Today Avatar
          Not Today

          Asians are an interesting case. You do realize the term is often used to lump East Asians with South Asians and Pacific Island/indigenous island groups? At times in our history, they’ve been offered inclusion in the ‘white’ category and other times excluded, whatever the dominant group needed at the time. Within the wide range of experiences that make up ‘Asian’, which most closely resemble that of black and brown people in America and what do their academic achievements, wealth/income history, and other health determinants show?

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