McMANSIONS AND LOCATION VARIABLE COSTS

GROVETON’S LEXICON AND TMT’S LOCATION VARIABLE COSTS – NOTES FROM UNDERWATER MORTGAGE COMMENTS:

Groveton, Good to hear from you.

You are right that the term “McMansion” is used to describe a range of inappropriately-scaled shelter options but as far as causing wide-spread confusion, it is not in the same league with the Core Confusing Words.

Actually, the admittedly ‘rough’ definition in Wikipedia is not bad. There is a list of characteristics which are stated to not ALL necessarily be present to be classified as a “McMansion.”

As EMR sees it there are two general categories of McMansions:

Mc Mansions INSIDE the Clear Edge

Large, recently built houses on small lots. These Units are frequently the result of “knockdown redevelopment.” These dwellings are disconcerting and disruptive for the Dooryarders and Clustermates. However, in the long term they MAY represent a transition to larger units in a given location.

When the dust settles from the ongoing housing bust, most of these McMansions will have far more square-footage than can be afforded by the vast majority of Households.

These may be wrong size house but not necessarily Wrong Size House in Wrong Location.

McMansions OUTSIDE the Clear Edge

The other form of McMansions are Big Houses on Big Lots – especially in scattered, orphan subdivisions. They would be among the 12.5 percent of the Urban dwellings that fall OUTSIDE the 87.5 Percent Rule.

These dwelling may be Big or REALLY Big but the key is that they are too Big for the actual income / lifestyle of owner. Real mansions are owned by people who could afford to throw parties that would fill up the entertainment areas and have out of town guests that fill the guest suites and / or they can afford to let them sit vacant for months at a time. There is a subset of McMansions called McLodges that are vacant most of the time.

Many owners of McMansions know they bought more house than the can afford / use. These dwellings have been marketed as “investments” in the housing obesity binge over the past 35 years.

From a settlement pattern perspective the problem is not the SIZE of the dwelling, it is the amount of land that is taken up for a single Urban Household.

From an economic perspective it is the SIZE and the LOCATION of these dwellings and the fact that they have been subsidized by Agency and Enterprise actions that generates dysfunction.

Others can speak for themselves but EMR does not live in a McMansion by any definition.

The dwelling plus, library, office and studio / conference room are in a substantial structure but not far from the median in the municipality and it is the same size as the others in its Dooryard and about the median for the Cluster.

The dwelling sits on a small lot (less than .2 acre) but the house is not too big for the lot. The Cluster is inside the Clear Edge around a Village-scale agglomeration and within walking distance of Main Street and a much shorter walk to a range of services in the Neighborhood via a path system. The Dwelling and Cluster would contribute to a Balance if the vacant and underutilized land within the Clear Edge were built out.

On the other hand Grovetons use of “socialist” IS a candidate for Core Confusing Words in the Fundamental Transformation of governance structure discussion because of its current wide-spread misuse.

There are no “socialists” as classically defined just as there are not “cities” as classically defined and not “rural” as classically defined. The world has moved on. See Harold Meyerson’s 4 March column “Who You Calling Socialist?” in WaPo. Even he is a “democratic socialist” not a “socialist.”

Groveton may be correct in describing the Obama administration program. However, there may be no alternative to “more government” given the state of the resources that citizens are left with after Supercapitalism has created:

The obscene Wealth Gap in the US of A and other First World Nation States,

The equally obscene Consumption Gap with the rest of the citizens of the planet, and

The Global Financial Meltdown – back to those Wrong Size House in the Wrong Location…

What did ANYONE expect would be the Global result when consumers were subsidized to buy stuff they could not afford and in the process provided Indians and Chinese with jobs making cheaper STUFF? Now they see no reason they should not Mass OverConsume too.

TooManyTaxes:

EMR thinks you were trying to slip in a trick question about Location Variable Costs.

The answer is very simple:

Both of the Households you hypothecate (as well as the neighbors who lives and works in Fredericksburg) would pay EXACTLY the same for the goods and services they actually used – no location-based subsidies or discounts.

Then they could decide if their choice of job location / and efforts to mitigate costs made sense.

EMR


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26 responses to “McMANSIONS AND LOCATION VARIABLE COSTS”

  1. Groveton Avatar
    Groveton

    “Others can speak for themselves but EMR does not live in a McMansion by any definition.”.

    Not so fast there EMR …

    Since McMansion has no definition other than “a house I am jealous of owning” I cannot let you disclaim the McMansion designation just because you say so. I have a much better way of determining whether the “Red Letter M” should be worn. I have created a Committee for the Realistic Use of Defamation (or CRUD for short). CRUD will determine who lives in a McMansion and who does not. This committee consists of myself, TMT and Nova Scout. Since neither TMT nor NovaScout know of their appointment to this prestigious committee I will adjudicate the first few cases of possible McMansion-ism myself.

    EMR – you are accused of McMansion-ism in the first degree. The indictment against you is clear and compelling. CRUD advises you to seek competent counsel in this very serious matter. Therefore, we have appointed RH to represent you on a pro-bono basis. He also does not yet know of this appointment so I will proceed without him.

    You are accused of McMansion-ism in the first degree based on the following facts in evidence:

    1. You live in a place that has no economic basis for existence. While it has a Main St it has insufficient economic activity to justify itself. Therefore, anybody living there is presumed guilty until proven innocent. This “guilty first” if you pay less in aggregate taxes than you consume in services is a hallmark of CRUD justice.

    2. You are of retirement age (defined by CRUD as anybody older than 50), you have no children at home and yet you live in a detached, single family unit. This alone subjects you to a presumption of guilt of McMansion-ism.

    3. You live in a county (Fauquier) with a population density (2000 numbers) of 85 / sq. mi. This is simultaneously too high and too low by CRUD’s standards of functional human settlement. Therefore, you are again presumed guilty of McMansion-ism.

    CRUD uses a three strike approach to trial. Anybody presumed to be guilty by dint of three of CRUD’s major theories of jurisprudence is, in fact, guilty. Therefore, we find you guilty of McMansion-ism in the first degree.

    Sentencing will follow after a victim’s rights hearing.

    As the sole judge, jury and executioner in this case I have decided that my own victimhood at the hands of your wanton McMansion-ism is sufficient to allow me to pass sentence in this matter.

    1. You will immediately move into a one bedroom condo which CRUD has determined to be more than adequate for your personal needs.

    2. Your present McMansion will be transformed into shrine to Fairfax County. This will allow residents of Fauquier County to pay homage to the functional settlement location that provides the jobs held by the Mother Fauquiers from your county.

    3. You will hold continuous parties in your condo to justify even that habitation. TMT, NovaScout and I will be invited to all parties. So will Michael Phelps who seems quite comfortable at a party. You will provide all intoxicants as well as non-polluting transportation back to Farifax / Loudoun Counties.

    4. You will recite the rosary of core confusing words daily. This recitation will be made in public and will be followed with “God Bless Groveton” repeated three times emphatically at the end of the recitation.

    CRUD will address the matter of your unindicted co-conspirator LarryG at our next witch hunt … er, I mean trial.

  2. E M Risse Avatar
    E M Risse

    Groveton:

    Your comment is funny. Sounds like something dreamed up by J. Edgar or by those folks from the “justice” department over the past 8 years…

    The problem is that THE PROBLEM is not funny.

    EMR

  3. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    “These may be wrong size house but not necessarily Wrong Size House in Wrong Location.”

    I give up. How can it be one and not the other? If it is the wrong size house, it is the wrong size houe.

    If it is the wrong size house in the wrong location, it is still the wrong size house, only now it has two strikes against it.

    I assume that you position is that if it is the wrong size house in the right location, then at least it can be subdivided.

    Then there are two families that won’t try to move into your neighborhood.

    RH

  4. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    “From a settlement pattern perspective the problem is not the SIZE of the dwelling, it is the amount of land that is taken up for a single Urban Household.”

    Gee. I have a relatvely mnodest (and antique) husae, with a positively huge lot. Are you sugestting that I ought to be allowed to have a smaller lot?

    RH

  5. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    “The dwelling plus, library, office and studio / conference room are in a substantial structure but not far from the median in the municipality and it is the same size as the others in its Dooryard and about the median for the Cluster. “

    Yes, and you drive two SUV’s.

    How many square feet is it, really, and how big is too big?

    Come on, Fess up.

    Assuming our homes are about the same size, why is mine morte dysfunctional than yours, considering mine has been here for well over a hundren years?

    RH

  6. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    The obscene Wealth Gap in the US of A and other First World Nation States ——–might have something to do with our productivity compared to other people and other places.

    RH

  7. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    “Both of the Households you hypothecate (as well as the neighbors who lives and works in Fredericksburg) would pay EXACTLY the same for the goods and services they actually used – no location-based subsidies or discounts. “

    TA DAH!

    It does not matter where you live or where you work. It only mattters how far you travel to work.

    Therefore if we wish to reduce travel and congestion we should spend far mor effort on offering “choices” on where to work (and where to livbe), and far less on offering “choices” in transportationthat involve heroic methods and heroic costs.

    Based on EMR’s own confession, I rest my case.

    RH

  8. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    “The other form of McMansions are Big Houses on Big Lots – especially in scattered, orphan subdivisions. They would be among the 12.5 percent of the Urban dwellings that fall OUTSIDE the 87.5 Percent Rule. “

    Rules my A__.

    Look, by my own admission, I live in a lare home. But I did not choose this, I inherited it. I do have other choices, but ALL of them are more expensive, even after including transportation costs at 3x the actaul current costs.

    I could even move into a smaller (probably previous slave quarters) dwelling on the property, but the renovation cost makes it not worth the savings.

    I could conceivably make enormous energy savings here, and I know very well how to go about it. The problem is that I cannot afford the capital to do it.

    One reason I cannot afford the capital investment in energy savings is that current (local) law pretty much requires that I lose money in agriculture, just so I can keep the place.

    Local government would prefer that I lose money on aagriculture than save money on energy costs.

    You seem to have a lot more contact and clout with local government than I have, since you are more closely associated with PEC. If you are really concerned about enrgy costs, I suggest you set up a meeting with the appropriate powers that be.

    I will be happy to put together a trade study that shows the relative benefit to the county of me investin in four cows vs me investing in a geothermal heat pump.

    All they have to do is offer me a fair choice in the matter.

    RH

  9. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    “New U.Va. Study Sheds Light on Foreclosures in States and Metropolitan Areas

    February 25, 2009 — National housing price declines and foreclosures have not been as severe as some analyses have indicated, and they are not as important as financial manipulations in bringing on the global recession, according to a new analysis of foreclosures in 50 states, 35 metropolitan areas and 236 counties by University of Virginia professor William Lucy and graduate student Jeff Herlitz.

    Their analysis shows that most foreclosures have been concentrated in California, Florida, Nevada, Arizona and a modest number of metropolitan counties in other states. In fact, they claim that “66 percent of potential housing value losses in 2008 and subsequent years may be in California, with another 21 percent in Florida, Nevada and Arizona, for a total of 87 percent of national declines.”

    “California had only 10 percent of the nation’s housing units, but it had 34 percent of foreclosures in 2008,” Lucy and Herlitz reported.”

  10. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    “According to annual Census Bureau data from 1978 to 2007, and quarterly data through 2008:Q3 (source here), the average size of a new home fell in 2008, the first annual decrease in new home size since 1994 (see chart above). Over the last 15 years, the average new home size increased by 21% from 2,050 square feet in 1994 to a peak of 2,479 square feet in 2007, before falling to 2,438 square feet in the third quarter of 2008. The 2008 decrease in home size was the largest annual decrease since 1980.”

    From Carpe Diem.

    RH

  11. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    “Since new house sizes vary by region, with the sharpest drop in new homes in areas with larger homes such as California, it would be interesting to see regional averages or a constant weight region average. Probably no difference over time in average new house size by region.”

    Milton Recht, in response to Carpe Diem.

    RH

  12. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    “California had only 10 percent of the nation’s housing units, but it had 34 percent of foreclosures in 2008”

    You think maybe that this means there is SOMETHING other than proximity to the clear edge that affects housing values, and thsu foreclosures?

    RH

  13. Larry G Avatar

    I forgot. Does EMR call the word McMansion a core confusing word?

  14. Larry G Avatar

    …so what I got out of this is that a McMansion is only a McMansion if EMR says it is and that a wrong-sized house in a wrong-location is purely in context to where the occupant actually works.

    so if he works locally – then exemptions are granted for wrong-size…

    and if he lives in a small house… he’s allowed to commute….

    sorta sounds like that Nixon-Front dialog.. ” well.. when the President does it – it’s not illegal”.

  15. Reid Greenmun Avatar
    Reid Greenmun

    This whole conversation was really fun to read!

    Still … it seems that some people really feel that they should dictate to everyone else where to live, how to live, where to work, and how to get from work to home.

    Odd, I thought freedom was all about people making these decisions for themselves and not being forced to pay for other’s expenses in the process.

    Guess not, LOL!

    Closing thought; until I read this last forum I have no idea the home my family and I live in would be considered to be “large” because it is above average.

    At 2,850 sq ft it is far from being a large home here in Virginia Beach. It is actually pretty modest in my neck-o-da-woods. Er, um, edge-core ring alpha-unit thingy I mean.

  16. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    R Greenmum:

    You are always trying to find a way to avoid the reality:

    If that full cost of decisions were allocated as Dr. Risse advocates, then everyone could make their own decision.

    Given that costs are not fairly allocated, then there is no alternative but to dictate “solutions” — that will make the problems worse.

  17. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    As long as EMR gets to decide what is “FAIR”

    If the full cost of decisions were allocated as Dr. Risse advocates, then everyone could make their own decision – according to his economic analysis.

    Some decision that is.

    RH

  18. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    An opportunity to own an important piece of real estate history in Beverly Hills, and the most famous home in America of the 1920s. This Legendary Estate, known worldwide as “PICKFAIR”, was once the home of Mary Pickford & Douglas Fairbanks, Sr. This Villa design now awaits your updating to a 21st Century Masterpiece. Shown to pre-screened Buyers only. Sellers will negotiate art, sculptures and would consider exchange for commercial property, business or other.

    1143 SUMMIT DR, BEVERLY HILLS, CA 90210

    $60 million
    17 bedrooms
    30 baths.

    Looks like a nice house.

    RH

  19. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    $60 million, and it needs updates?

  20. Larry G Avatar

    I feel quite confident that I will be found not guilty as the best characterization of my humble abode would be “hovel light”.

    Perhaps I will be found guilty of a lesser charge – dallying with dysfunctional happenstance.

  21. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    “dallying with dysfunctional happenstance.”

    I love it. that fits my situation perfectly. And probably a lot of us. Muddling through is not quite the same as dysfunctional, maybe?

    RH

  22. Larry G Avatar

    well.. I’d certainly agree to have my abode appear in a “line-up” of other abodes of those in this blog – and then we can vote on the most dysfunctional and best functional…

    I’m betting EMR is not going to come in first….

    I bet that would really stick in his craw….

  23. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    Well, I must say that I like my new job from Groveton. It doesn’t pay much (there’s a lot of that going around now) but it does let me go to parties. As it stands now, only my teen-aged daughter goes to parties — and I have to pay for the gas. This sounds like an improvement to me.

    TMT

  24. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    “In the past folks argued that recessions were good for the environment as the scale of the dirty factory production decreased. But, green technique effects are likely to be boosted more during boom times as companies seek out market niches and some consumers are willing to pay a price premium for these products. “

    I’ve said it before. A good environment costs money. You need a good economy to have a good environment. In a good economy, people will want nicer homes.

    RH

  25. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    “The unintended law of consequences strikes again. The 20-year old campaign to save the ozone layer has led to the widespread industrial use of a greenhouse gas 4,800 times more potent than carbon dioxide. “

    Sulfuyl Fluoride is used as a fumigant to kkep our food supply safe.

    RH

  26. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    “The city of Bradbury is working on a deal to sell its $500,000 share of federal funding doled out by the MTA to the city of Torrance for $315,000 in cash for its general fund. La Habra Heights has sold its $500,000 in federal funds to the city of Westlake Village for $310,000 cash. Irwindale sold its $500,000 to Westlake Village, for $325,000 cash.”

    Some places don’t have enough costs, so they are buying them from other places.

    RH

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