Mask Mandates Causing Air Warfare

by Kerry Dougherty

Almost two weeks ago the CEO of Southwest Airlines, Gary Kelly, told a congressional committee that face masks were essentially useless as protection for airline passengers. He supported a repeal of the executive order that made face coverings mandatory on flights until March 2022.

“The statistics, I recall, is that 99.97 % of airborne pathogens are captured by the (high efficiency particulate air) filtering system. It’s turned over every two or three minutes,” Kelly testified.

Kelly added that masks “don’t add much, if anything, in the air cabin.”

The CEO of American Airlines agreed, claiming that “an aircraft is the safest place you can be.”

The media was quick to point out, with undisguised glee, that Kelly tested positive for Covid shortly after testifying. Frankly, I don’t see the connection between Kelly’s likely head cold and the need for masks on planes. There’s no evidence that he caught Covid as a result of flying bare-faced.

Looks like we’re all going to catch the latest, mild variant regardless of our devotion to masks. So what’s the point in shaming someone who tests positive?

While the statements of these airline executives may seem counterintuitive, they’re probably right. In fact, few cases of Covid have been traced to air travel and the sophisticated air filtration on aircraft is superior to nearly any other indoor space.

Beyond that, it seems many people are coming to the conclusion that masks are nothing more than – as CNNs medical expert put it – facial decorations. Or as left-wing comic Bill Maher called them, “amulets.” Unless you’re wearing a fitted medical grade N95 and changing it every couple of hours, your mask is doing little more than giving you really bad breath and helping bacteria colonize in your mouth.

On the other hand, incidents of unhinged passengers are up sharply in the past year. It may have a lot to do with power-drunk flight attendants turning into mask fascists. So far in 2021, there have been 5,000 reported incidents of unruly air passengers “often as a result of Covid-related arguments.”

Here’s one colorful encounter that happened recently in mid-air and went viral on social media. It appears that a belligerent female passenger, whose mask is pulled down, is assaulting a seated male passenger for going maskless while eating. She hits him and spits at him until the flight attendants intervene using the drinks cart as a weapon.

Enough already. This behavior is out of control. Hopefully, the authorities were waiting for this maskhole when the plane landed in Atlanta.

The whole issue of masks and ordering people to keep their faces covered seems to have reached a boiling point in the air.

In the interest of peaceful travel, why not make masks optional? That way, those passengers who believe their masks protect them, are free to mask up. Others, and I’d be in this camp, could take their chances going bare-faced, the way we traveled for decades before the world lost its mind over Covid.

That said, I’ve flown numerous times during the pandemic and as someone who loathes masks, I’ve never been tempted to make a scene.

Because no-fly lists last forever.

This column has been republished with permission from Kerry: Unemployed & Unedited.


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Comments

79 responses to “Mask Mandates Causing Air Warfare”

  1. If it was about science instead of ‘The Science’ we wouldn’t allow this totalitarian aberration to continue.
    We have gone from 15 days to slow the spread to mandatory vaxxing of not at-risk populations when cheap therapeutics work better but don’t give big pharma outsized profits.
    If we allow this to continue, we have ourselves to blame for the outcome.

  2. The Miracle of Christmas: The CDC has discovered that because of the Birth of our Lord, C-19 quarantine can now only last 7 or 10 days, NOT 14… hmmmmmmmm. That is interesting science.

    https://www.news4jax.com/news/local/2021/12/24/cdc-shortens-quarantine-for-health-care-workers-positive-for-covid-19/

  3. Stephen Haner Avatar
    Stephen Haner

    You gotta love it. A woman worried about danger from an airborne virus is screaming back and forth with some stranger, three inches from his face. Yeah, she gets it….Actually, this is proof that the issue is power and control, not health, and largely always has been.

    That said, while I accept that the filtered air in the cabin is relatively safe, the terminal is a whole other thing. I may wear masks there from now on. Always was a caldron of infection probably. 🙂

    1. Nancy Naive Avatar
      Nancy Naive

      “The statistics, I recall, is that 99.97 % of airborne pathogens are captured by the (high efficiency particulate air) filtering system. It’s turned over every two or three minutes,” Kelly testified.

      When was the last time you were on a plane where the engines and/or the air system were running during boarding and disembarkation?

      1. Stephen Haner Avatar
        Stephen Haner

        The air system is running. What, you never adjust the nozzle until take off?

        1. Eric the half a troll Avatar
          Eric the half a troll

          Have you ever been stuck on the tarmac in August…?? That’s one efficient system… /s…

          1. Matt Adams Avatar

            “I’ve boarded many a plane where the air didn’t move until the engines were fired up.”

            That’s false, it’s just operating at a diminished capacity, because it’s ether powered by the GPU or APU. The HVAC is always running, it’s just efficient when the turbines are spinning and it’s running off of bleed air.

          2. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            Yes, I’d expect that without a GPU or APU, the average plane would turn into an icebox or an oven (depending on season) pretty quickly.

          3. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            ‘”I’ve boarded many a plane where the air didn’t move until the engines were fired up.”

            That’s false….’

            I didn’t write that… 🤷‍♂️

          4. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            He clicked Reply on the wrong post. It happens.

          5. Matt Adams Avatar

            Either post is filled with enough idiocy and lack of understanding, they might as well be the same person connected at their 4th points.

          6. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            Yeah, seems so… waiting for the “my bad” response… alas…

          7. Matt Adams Avatar

            “Eric the half a troll how_it_works • 16 hours ago
            Yeah, seems so… waiting for the “my bad” response… alas…”

            Why would I make such a statement, you refuse to admit your errors and double down like clown troll you are every time your corrected.

          8. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            Oooooh, whataboutism.

          9. Matt Adams Avatar

            Clearly, whatever education your parents paid for was a waste. As you’ve never been able to aptly identify a logical fallacy.

            “the technique or practice of responding to an accusation or difficult question by making a counteraccusation or raising a different issue.”

            Something you’re intimately familiar with, clearly.

          10. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            Especially when diminished capacity is coupled with a superiority complex.

          11. Matt Adams Avatar

            “Nancy Naive how_it_works • 24 minutes ago
            Especially when diminished capacity is coupled with a superiority complex.”

            Clearly you’re talking about yourself, I don’t put others down while making errors in any number of statements.

          12. Matt Adams Avatar

            “Eric the half a troll Matt Adams • 35 minutes ago
            ‘”I’ve boarded many a plane where the air didn’t move until the engines were fired up.”

            That’s false….’

            I didn’t write that… 🤷‍♂️”

            No but your pal did and you heartily added more revealing that you have zero understanding of how the system operates.

            Much like your statement about your Geothermal heat pump, being aa closed loop system. Of course it’s closed loop, it has feedback. If it was open loop there be no set point, it was just run and run and run.

          13. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            You misquoted me in your answer to me for one simple reason: you are an idiot. You further proved it by suggesting that there are no open loop geothermal systems.

          14. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            Are you claiming there is no open loop geothermal system?

          15. Matt Adams Avatar

            “Eric the half a troll Matt Adams • 34 minutes ago
            Are you claiming there is no open loop geothermal system?”

            It’s very evident again you don’t know what an open loop system vs and closed loop system are. So I’ll reiterate that for you, a closed loop system has feedback and open loop does not.

            https://www.dataforth.com/closed-loop-vs-open-loop-control.aspx

            Now that’s you’ve learned something, it can be obviously stated when you claimed to have designed your own solar power system you were lying. So if you have any additional lies you like to peddle, go right ahead and let someone with an education tell you otherwise

          16. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            I know what a closed-loop and open-loop geothermal system is. Apparently you do not… you are demonstrating your own ignorance here…

          17. Matt Adams Avatar

            No, you don’t. As you keep misusing the words. Closed loop and open loop systems are very specific terms, which you clearly don’t understand nor do you posses the mathematical ability to calculate the transfer functions that define them.

          18. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-key-to-safe-airflow-for-planes-before-takeoff-11617800215

            He’s an ID-10T who knows everything. Someday his last living act will be a funniest home video.

          19. Matt Adams Avatar

            “He’s an ID-10T who knows everything. Someday his last living act will be a funniest home video.”

            You article doesn’t prove your statement, I realize that words are hard for someone with your limited brain capacity. Oh look you’re hoping for death again, how cute.

            Seeing as I’m an engineer and we are discussing items with are within my area of expertise, I’m not a “know it all” that’s you, half a brain and Larry.

            If we are to discuss your area of expertise, that would be, being a drunk, getting fired from a Federal Contracting job or sexually harassing women.

          20. Matt Adams Avatar

            “He’s an ID-10T who knows everything. Someday his last living act will be a funniest home video.”

            You article doesn’t prove your statement, I realize that words are hard for someone with your limited brain capacity. Oh look you’re hoping for death again, how cute.

            Seeing as I’m an engineer and we are discussing items with are within my area of expertise, I’m not a “know it all” that’s you, half a brain and Larry.

            If we are to discuss your area of expertise, that would be, being a drunk, getting fired from a Federal Contracting job or sexually harassing women.

          21. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            Yes, he is… the ID-10T doesn’t even believe there is such thing as an open loop geothermal system. He thinks it something to do with controls. Instead it reflects how the system transfers heat…

            https://iwae.com/resources/articles/open-loop-vs-closed-loop-geothermal.html

            I grow tired of correcting him… alas…

          22. Matt Adams Avatar

            It’s not an open loop system, open loop systems have no feedback loop therefore they have no set points.

            “A closed loop control system is a set of mechanical or electronic devices that automatically regulates a process variable to a desired state or set point without human interaction. … Unlike open loop control systems or switchable control loops, closed loops don’t take input from human operators.”

            The fact that you don’t understand that is indicative, that you lack the understanding to make such statements. The fact that you are corrected often and refused to admit your own errors is also telling.

            An open loop heat pump uses the ground well as an input, not the control system.

            Open Loop Laplace Transfer Function:

            (B(s))/(E(s))=G(s)H(s)

            Closed Loop Laplace Transfer Function:

            (C(s))/(R(s))=(G(s))/(1+G(s)H(s))

            “He thinks it something to do with controls”

            Alas, it’s apparent you’ve never been introduced to control systems, nor do you have any iota of understanding of it.

            For your clearly uneducated mind, a cruise control a closed loop system. You have a setpoint and that is maintained through a PID controller.

            But, yes please enlighten me on a topic that you have zero understanding of. I question your ability to do the math required to calculate the resistor for the closed loop.

          23. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            Hey, dolt, an open loop geothermal system is one where water (either groundwater or surface water) is used as the circulation fluid. It has an intake and a discharge which are not connected (in fact are separated far from each other), hence the “loop” is open. A closed-loop geothermal system is one where an anti-freeze/water solution is circulated in a continuous “closed-loop” and the heat is transferred into the ground (horizontal or vertical loop) or a water body without the coolant ever directly contacting the media.

            Closed-loop or open-loop geothermal refer only to the way that heat is transferred, nothing else.

            You have no idea what you are talking about and are embarrassing yourself. Here this site breaks it down so even a simpleton like you can understand:

            https://rossandwitmer.com/geothermal-101-difference-open-closed-loops/

          24. Matt Adams Avatar

            Again, you’re misusing a term you have no business using. I’m sorry that a website doesn’t convey control systems to someone who clearly needs an education. You can try the below link, if you can understand the words (I’m not confident you can).

            https://medium.com/lifeandtech/control-theory-for-dummies-e86155b14aff

            “Closed-loop or open-loop geothermal refer only to the way that heat is transferred, nothing else.” Heat transfer is thermodynamics and clearly another class you didn’t make it to. Heat transfers in the following 3 methods, Conduction, Convection and Radiation. Heat pumps use convection, if you were curious (not that you understand what that is).

            Closed loop and Open loop have meanings, which are misused and you repeat because again you have no idea what a control system is.

            “You have no idea what you are talking about and are embarrassing yourself. Here this site breaks it down so even a simpleton like you can understand:”

            I hold a BSEE, you hold money handed to you by mommy and daddy and still can’t manage to invest it properly. The only person who embarrass themselves daily is you, sad facts. However, I’m sure you’re used to being embarrassed when you look in the mirror.

            Oh and your article is again wrong. However, that’s the problem, you can’t think or use your brain you only regurgitate what you’re told. Which brings us back to any number of your comments, where you discuss that your boss told you so therefore it must be true.

          25. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            Oh, I see… everybody else is wrong because you say they are. You with your BSEE are so sure of yourself that you think closed and open loop can only apply to controls. Your hubris blinds you to the simple fact that you are wrong. When applied to geothermal systems, open loop and closed loop refer to the manner in which heat is transferred to and from the ground and nothing else.

            Here are several more sites that explain this fact to you (I know, they are ALL wrong – typical engineer):

            https://dandelionenergy.com/open-loop-vs-closed-loop-geothermal-systems

            http://www.geoexcel.com/OpenLoopVsClosedLoop.htm

            https://www.scwa.com/to-protect-ratepayers-and-the-environment-scwa-bans-open-loop-geothermal-systems/

            https://www.geoexchange.org/forum/threads/why-doesn-t-everyone-go-with-open-loops.303/

            Really, you need therapy….

          26. Matt Adams Avatar

            The terms closed loop and open loop apply to controls systems. Type the word open loop or closed loop into Google and it will return, control systems.

            They are misusing a term and you Mr. Lemming with a sum total of zero education on the matter lap it up.

            As explained previously, heat transfers in 3 methods. None of which are closed loop or open loop. Heat pumps, even geothermal transfer heat via convection. Terms are missed and misrepresented all the time and the laymen (ie you) continue that because you lack the institutional knowledge to know differently.

            “Here are several more sites that explain this fact to you (I know, they are ALL wrong – typical engineer)” Typical uneducated spoiled rich kid, doesn’t work for anything and just can’t stand being wrong.

            Let me.knlw when you figured out those transfer functions.

          27. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            Type “open loop geothermal” into your search engine for that is what we were discussing.

            Funny, when I type “open loop closed loop” into google I do indeed get a return that includes your controls but I also get geothermal open and closed loop systems and even this link:

            https://resource.temarry.com/blog/open-loop-vs-closed-loop-recycling?hs_amp=true

            Open and closed loop recycling. I see nothing anywhere saying that open loop and closed loop geothermal system is a “misuse” of the term. You again are straight out wrong – you jumped on something you thought you knew but clearly did not. Now your hubris again will not allow you to even recognize your own error… as I said, you really need professional help.

            I have now given the Angel of Death’s piece here far too many hits hopelessly trying to educate you. This conversation is done.

          28. Matt Adams Avatar

            So that’s an admission that when you type the words open loop and closed loop into Google you get control systems. However did I manage to know that. It’s because what you’re attempting to describe, albeit poorly is a control system by the very definition of it’s function.

            “Open and closed loop recycling.”

            You are aware that you just described a closed loop control system right? Oh wait you aren’t, because you’re too busy wanting to be right to even for a second and realize that you don’t know what you’re talking about.

            “You again are straight out wrong – you jumped on something you thought you knew but clearly did not. Now your hubris again will not allow you to even recognize your own error… as I said, you really need professional help.”

            You clearly don’t know what hubris (exaggerated pride or self-confidence) is, as the amount of it which you display seemingly unaware of it is hilarious. nor are you qualified to make any judgements about someone’s need for professional help. As a matter of fact you’ve been wrong about every single statement you’ve made, be it legal or otherwise.

            “I have now given the Angel of Death’s piece here far too many hits hopelessly trying to educate you. This conversation is done.”

            Lovely ad hom attack and as for educating me. You haven’t a f’n clue about the topic you’re attempting to discuss, you even proved my point by invoking a closed loop control system (which you don’t understand, because I can assume you hold some BS business degree from a community college).

            Outside of inheriting money you lack the knowledge, skills and personality to do anything but be a leech on society. You’re a clown and a waste of O2.

          29. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            Psst. I decided to stay out of this, and wait until now, because the sob is more right than wrong. Open/closed loop is associated with automatic controls and represents whether or not plant measurements are “feedback” for the control model. If the model runs independently, it is open loop.

            The modeling for geothermal system is a “control volume” analysis. Without reseaching the particular use of open/closed, I assume it has to do with the relative location of sources and sinks.

            Either way, his knowledge in this area is limited to his ability to Google keywords and copy&paste from Wiki. As per usual.

          30. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-key-to-safe-airflow-for-planes-before-takeoff-11617800215

            Note: sometimes they are even off, or words to that effect.

            I wish everyone was as smart as you. There’d be more funny death videos on youtube.

          31. Matt Adams Avatar

            Your article states exactly what I said, I realize that words are hard for someone of your diminished mental capacity, but try and stay in your lane.

            “The best way airlines can prevent coronavirus spread on board is through their ventilation systems—but on the ground they don’t always run at full power”

            Your statement discussing the rare moments are the exception not the rule.

            Oh so now you’re wishing my death again, how pleasant. If all math teachers were a mentally handicapped as you, we’d have shot many more modules into Mars.

        2. Nancy Naive Avatar
          Nancy Naive

          I’ve boarded many a plane where the air didn’t move until the engines were fired up.

          But, as Karen has oft said, “we should follow the science on this,” as told to Congress by, not just one, but TWO airline CEOs with Ph.Ds in … oh wait, no, MBAs.

          1. LarrytheG Avatar

            I was thinking that the individual nozzles at the seats really ought to SUCK air not blow it out because if the guy has covid – it’s actually SPREADING the stuff…. no?

  4. Eric the half a troll Avatar
    Eric the half a troll

    The Angel of Death hungers for post-Christmas souls…

  5. dave schutz Avatar
    dave schutz

    ” Or as left-wing comic Bill Maher called them, “amulets.” Unless you’re wearing a fitted medical grade N95 and changing it every couple of hours, your mask is doing little more than giving you really bad breath and helping bacteria colonize in your mouth.”
    As a fat septuagenarian, I am doing exactly that. KN95s actually. Am trying to postpone the inevitable day when I get Covid forward into a period of easy availability of Paxlovid. Unless the masks being mandated for air travel are of “-95” quality, my guess is that they are not doing much for passenger safety.

  6. LarrytheG Avatar

    What we do know is that people who have COVID ARE getting on airplanes. We know that’s one way it does spread.

    Even if we have 100% faith in the ventilation system, are we still 100% sure if that person who has COVID is sitting next to us or behind us is being “filtered’ before it reaches you?

    The thing is that Science doesn’t know for sure either but who you gonna believe? someone who has the academic knowledge and career experience or some loudmouth yahoo who says they “know” because they can ‘read’ research papers they happen to agree with and like and ignore the ones they disagree with?

    Science is an evolving body of knowledge, as it is gathered and validated, not the truth from on high never to change because some smart guy said so.

    The advent of folks who have no scientific background who “read’ and then tell us what the “truth” is are pretty much idiots and we, even more so from choosing to heed their “advice” over folks who actually do have the credentials.

    If 90% of cancer researchers said a substance will likely cause cancer but they’re not 100% sure, but we “believe’others who don’t even have the background to tell us what the “truth’ is, well, we deserve the outcomes.

    1. Don’t you mean Director of NIAID ‘loudmouth yahoo’?

      1. LarrytheG Avatar

        Well I mean people who don’t have the academic knowledge and career experience to be able to make an intelligent comment…. if it fits…

        You don’t have to like your doctor but you’d be an idiot to think your medical knowledge as a yahoo superior, right? oh wait…

  7. tmtfairfax Avatar

    Why would anyone consider anything written by an MSM journalist to be of any value? I’d sooner take advice from my kids’ dogs than I would from a practioner from the MSM. Unfortunately, journalism ceased to be a profession quite a while ago.

    I wear masks in public locations when required by rule. So I’m not an anti-masker.

  8. Nancy Naive Avatar
    Nancy Naive

    I’m vaxxed and boosted and should I get a breakthrough case, I’m driving an hour out of town to the suburban and rural taverns and restaurants to lead rousing chants of “Let’s go Brandon!”

    Gerrymandering, and the Electoral College, is easily negated.

  9. James Kiser Avatar
    James Kiser

    Masks do not stop airborne viruses. Period. This has been documented by Osha and all the other federal idiots, yet Dr Faust continues to scream wear a mask! Masks will stop droplets from people sneezing or coughing. Thats it all folks. Want proof look at what hazmat teams or lab personnel wear when working with viruses or so called bio weapons. A level A suit with its own self contained airflow or filtered air. I know I worked in a haz mat team for years.

    1. LarrytheG Avatar

      Virtually ALL credentialed epidemiologists ARE saying that masks are effective, even if not 100% – they still have some level of efficacy and MOST folks, even a good number of conservatives – even in this group DO wear them and apparently do heed the words of the professionals even as others apparently lack the ability and will to understand.

      1. James Kiser Avatar
        James Kiser

        You apparently can’t read what I wrote. NO mask stops a virus. You can continue to make up everything you want as unicorn believer but you have no training in the area and I do.

        1. how_it_works Avatar
          how_it_works

          The warnings and disclaimers found on a box of masks suggest that the manufacturer of those masks doesn’t believe they’ll stop a virus either.

          1. James Kiser Avatar
            James Kiser

            As I said Larry the G can’t comprehend anything he reads.

          2. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            Viruses don’t just float in the air all by themselves. They come in huge, relatively speaking, globs of snot.

          3. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            Legal disclosures are related to engineering/physics/chemistry how, exactly? Those are specifically written to limit liabilities. Read a bag of peanuts sometime.

          4. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            There’s a warning on your car battery telling you not to drink the contents.

            Take a swig of battery acid and let me know how it goes for you.

          5. LarrytheG Avatar

            but don’t confuse “warnings” of death and injury with “disclosures” of efficacy.

            There is a LOT to this and a LOT of it is science that really does require a background and academic knowledge to “know” more… Too many folks want simple rock-solid answers that don’t change…. and the science is never that way. It’s a continuously evolving body of knowledge. What we knew before is less than what we know now, etc, etc.

            You pick up any written scientific paper from 30 years ago and chances are we know different now.

          6. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            Are there any standards for masks such as filtering efficiency in microns?

          7. LarrytheG Avatar

            I’m positive there are but I don’t know a good source oft hand.

            Again, there is a LOT of science to this whole issue and the answers are not fixed and unchanging… they are evolving… next year, we’ll know a hell of a lot more than we do right now – that’s just the way the works.

            https://smartairfilters.com/en/blog/comparison-mask-standards-rating-effectiveness/

          8. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            I’ve never seen any. The package of masks provides no useful information. The mask mandates don’t specify. You could cover your face with a window screen or cheesecloth and that would be just fine as far as the mandates are concerned.

          9. LarrytheG Avatar

            Yep. There is no time to try to develop a fixed standard that manufacturers would certify even assuming the variants work the same way.

            It’s more of a ” take measures ” the same as they recommend social distancing without really specifying how dense the congregate setting is …

            It’s not that they don’t work at all, it’s more like they are not bulletproof effective….

            If you worked in a defined / existing/known occupational setting for a given and known substance, they would have standards worked out and specificity.

            but with a new and fast evolving disease, such specificity is just not there.

            People wear masks as a safe but sorry additional layer of safety – knowing that it’s still a bit on the loosey goosey side.

            NOT a reason to not do – there are no guarantees… risk is relative … but is real non-the-less… just not quantifiable to the degree we want.

          10. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            Some work better than others.

          11. LarrytheG Avatar

            The very same “disclosures” are on every type of mask even ones used by hospitals and Doctors.

            Even gas masks have limits depending on the threat and type of mask.

            Nothing is 100% infallible or presented as such, hence the “if, and, and buts”.

            But some folks in this world have a need to see things in simplistic and binary terms. If a mask is not guaranteed to be 100% effective, then clearly it is a fail and protects no one from anything.

            It simply can’t be in between.

        2. LarrytheG Avatar

          no masks completely stops the virus 100% but they do mitigate and reduce the spread of particles. Virtually ALL credentialed epidemiologists CONCUR AND even Conservatives in this group who say they don’t trust the MSM say they STILL wear masks. So they must believe they are at least somewhat effective.

          What authoritative sources are saying otherwise?

          1. James Kiser Avatar
            James Kiser

            How about the fact that viruses are generally about 1/70 the size of a micron.Since all masks enable you to breathe through them, you do breath through them, I hope you noticed that Larry, then the holes in the mask are larger than that. Now if you wore a gas mask and had been trained in selecting the appropriate filters and properly applying the mask to your face for an airtight seal than you can probably avoid the virus, but you would not know that since you have no training in that area. I have yet to see anyone and that includes your so called experts wearing a filtered airtight mask.

          2. LarrytheG Avatar

            I would appreciate your ‘analysis’ MORE if you really had the requisite background and knowledge to make a truly informed comment.

            You’ve done your own “thinking” based on what you choose to read and hear but you are not academically schooled in that field as far as I know, so why should anyone believe you over a credentialed expert?

            Would you be advising a heart surgeon or bridge engineer or a pilot on how to do their work based on what you read rather than your own training in those fields?

        3. Nancy Naive Avatar
          Nancy Naive

          Obviously, you are medically trained and well educated to make such a statement. Could you publish a link to the results of your research? Perhaps, you could publish reprints of your publications from refereed medical journals?

          1. LarrytheG Avatar

            “Smart People” don’t need no stinking experts…. they simply “KNOW”!

            “No mask “stops” a virus” – simple , right?

            “The man died in a traffic accident even though he was wearing a seat belt.”

            That’s proof positive that wearing seat belts won’t keep you from being killed, right? or even injured… clearly if they can’t protect you 100%, they don’t “work”.

          2. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            How to be right and still be very wrong. Yes, as a particle, the virus will slip through an N-95, but the virus doesn’t travel as a particle, but as a part in a container of snot which is 12x the size of the N-95 maximum particle size.

            Like Steve’s insistence that “all models are wrong” so nothing modeled is correct hence global warming is nonsense. Don’t worry about how much or how little error there may be, any is sufficient.

          3. LarrytheG Avatar

            There are dozens of hurricane models and every one of them is also “wrong” every single time, so relying on them is mistake – better to consult a verified soothsayer or similar “smart person”.

          4. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            Steve reverts to original source — oracle at Delphi (Indiana).

  10. I am reading Scott Gottlieb’s book. “Uncontrolled spread.” Gottlieb is as close to a nonpartisan, honest broker of COVID-related information as there is. I’m only halfway through, and he hasn’t addressed the use of masks yet, so I don’t know his final verdict on the subject. But he has made the point that COVID is not spread by droplets, it spreads as an aerosol.

    I think it’s pretty widely acknowledged that cloth masks can stop droplets but they cannot stop aerosols. Therefore, anyone who believes they can protect themselves by wearing cloth masks is deluded.

    The only relevant question is whether we can protect others by wearing masks. I suppose there is some value in not spewing droplets if we are coughing, hacking or sneezing, but droplets fall quickly to the ground, so they’re not much of a threat. (If you’re coughing and wheezing, you shouldn’t be out in the first place.) But I don’t think masks are effective at blocking any aerosolized virus particles I might exhale. In other words, I don’t see much value either way — protecting myself or protecting others — in wearing masks. My justification for continuing to wear them is to salve the sensitivities of those who believe, rightly or wrongly, that masks do make a difference. It’s called being courteous.

    I reserve the right to change my mind based upon new information.

    1. LarrytheG Avatar

      How many courtrooms have you see of later on TV?

      There’s been a slew of court cases and I’ve yet to see a courtroom where everyone was not wearing a mask.

      Why?

      Similarily, when I go to a doctor appointment, every one of them REQUIRES a mask for the waiting room.

      why would Medical facilities “in the know” require masks if they were not effective and necessary?

      https://youtu.be/QvT1tPA4XM4

    2. Nancy Naive Avatar
      Nancy Naive

      Actually, he did address masks. Steve quoted him not so long ago on the efficacy of cloth, surgical, and of course, N-95.

      It was stated in terms of percentages of “better than nothing” with surgical as being “40% better than nothing”… whatever that means. But if true then as a SWAG, two persons in surgical masks would reduce the probability of transmission by nearly 2/3 — not insignificant.

      On the other hand, it seems silly to speculate about something — the use of masks to inhibit the spread of disease — that has been settled risk reduction and in use in medicine since the 1920s.

      But, if you don’t feel masks are necessary then if you ever require surgery, by all means, release your surgeon from the requirements to wear one.

      It’s a Q&D grab, but sneeze aerosol size is
      https://www.materials-talks.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Cough.jpg
      N-95 will stop all,

      1. LarrytheG Avatar

        ” Dr. Scott Gottlieb, member of the boards of Pfizer and biotech company Illumina and former FDA commissioner, joined “Squawk Box” on Monday to discuss.

        Dr. Scott Gottlieb said Monday he expects more Americans to stop wearing face coverings to protect against the coronavirus in the coming weeks.

        “By June, nobody is going to be wearing masks. By June, I think, the prevalence [of Covid] is going to be sufficiently low in this country [and[ we’re just not going to be concerned about it,” the former Food and Drug Administration commissioner said on CNBC’s “Squawk Box.”

        Gottlieb’s comments came during a back-and-forth about how the updated mask guidance from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention impacts young children who are not yet eligible to receive a Covid vaccine. Kids aged 12 to 15 became eligible for the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine last week.

        While he’s fully vaccinated, Gottlieb said he wore a mask this weekend when shopping with his young children. Gottlieb said he no longer feels at risk of getting Covid, but has no problem wearing a mask for the time being when he’s with them.

        “What’s the downside of keeping it on?” he said. “I would probably keep a mask on my kids a little bit longer. Another week or two,” added Gottlieb, who now serves on Pfizer’s board.

        On Thursday, the CDC said in most indoor and outdoor settings, fully vaccinated people no longer need to wear a face covering or maintain 6 feet of social distance from others. Masks are still needed on airplanes and public transportation, according to a federal rule.” May 17, 2021

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZD_QXI5tnXQ

        Cited not to impugn Mr. Gottlieb but to illustrate the changing nature of the virus that even challenges eminently qualified experts like Gottlieb.

        He is _not_ lying when his views and advice do change.

        And no, I don’t think reading a book to learn about Gottlieb’s view of masks is particularly useful as the virus IS continuing to evolve and as it does, advice from experts (like Gottlieb) will change as we learn more.

        The masks will not provide bullet-proof efficacy – we know that. But it sorta like arguing that seat belts and air bags are not necessary because people still die wearing them… it’s loony logic…

        1. Nancy Naive Avatar
          Nancy Naive

          Especially NOT a book. Too long of a lag.

  11. Paul Sweet Avatar

    Why not let people with masks sit in the front of the cabin and have an unmasked section at the back of the plane, like there used to be a smoking section?

    1. LarrytheG Avatar

      An aircraft is an excellent example of “power and control” of individuals to assure a level of health and welfare for everyone, no? Interesting to see how some folks react to that concept.

  12. Merchantseamen Avatar
    Merchantseamen

    Reading the comments. My father quoted this. “It Is Better to Keep Quiet and Be Thought a Fool Than to Speak and Remove All Doubt”. Let the self appointed “exxxxxxperts” keep on about the filtration systems on an aircraft. They know nothing. They are “exxxxxperts”.

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