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Mandate Teacher Vaccinations in Virginia

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sherlockj
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Louise Lucas, Chair, Senate Education and Health Committee photo credit: Virginian-Pilot

by James C. Sherlock

I wrote this morning about Virginia SENATE BILL NO. 1303 (Amendment in the Nature of a Substitute) Local school divisions; availability of virtual and in-person learning to all students.

The lengthy Democratic substitute to a one-sentence Republican bill was written over the weekend to provide political cover to the Democrats. Unfortunately, it did much more than that, all of it bad.

One provision states:

“Prior to the start of the 2021–2022 school year, all teachers and school staff shall be offered access to receive an approved COVID-19 vaccination through their relevant local health district.”

“Offered access.” I was asked by a reader whether I would recommend mandating teacher vaccinations.

My answer is yes.

Yes. I recommend mandating that teachers get vaccinated as a condition of employment. What is the countervailing argument?

Virginia and every other state in the union mandates child polio vaccination for attendance at either child care or elementary schools.

There is no difference between mandating polio vaccines for school kids and mandating teacher and staff COVID vaccinations. None.

If the elected officials in Richmond are not willing mandate teacher and school staff vaccinations, then all the statements they are making about wanting safe reopening of schools and doing all of this “for the children” is hogwash.

All of it.

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68 responses to “Mandate Teacher Vaccinations in Virginia”

  1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
    Nancy_Naive

    “Yes. I recommend mandating that teachers get vaccinated as a condition of employment. What is the countervailing argument?”

    Like the anthrax vaccine? Yet another unapproved vaccine foist on a population at the threat of dismissal. Well, at least ADM Crowe ain’t gettin’ rich off this one.

    Remember a EUA is not the same as FDA APPROVED.

    The polio vaccine and MMR vaccines are FDA Approved.

    1. sherlockj Avatar
      sherlockj

      Teachers demanded front of the line privileges for vaccinations. Can’t have it both ways.

      1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
        Nancy_Naive

        Only in the military you can’t. In the real world, Cap’n, I can demand access and then refuse to enter.

        1. sherlockj Avatar
          sherlockj

          Vaccination as a condition of employment. Then one’s personal vaccination philosophy doesn’t matter to that particular job.

          But there is a big world out there that may not require the shots as a condition of employment, or perhaps it will.

          Perhaps one soon won’t be able to get on an airplane or train without a vaccination. The President is big on masks and vaccinations.

          But one can probably continue to drive without being vaccinated. Perhaps.

          1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
            Nancy_Naive

            It’s not philosophy. It’s additional quality of testing.

        2. WayneS Avatar
          WayneS

          “In the real world, Cap’n, I can demand access and then refuse to enter.”

          Yes, but as Birdperson once said, “on my home planet that is considered a dick move”.

  2. Nancy_Naive Avatar
    Nancy_Naive

    “Yes. I recommend mandating that teachers get vaccinated as a condition of employment. What is the countervailing argument?”

    Like the anthrax vaccine? Yet another unapproved vaccine foist on a population at the threat of dismissal. Well, at least ADM Crowe ain’t gettin’ rich off this one.

    Remember a EUA is not the same as FDA APPROVED.

    The polio vaccine and MMR vaccines are FDA Approved.

    1. sherlockj Avatar
      sherlockj

      Teachers demanded front of the line privileges for vaccinations. Can’t have it both ways.

      1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
        Nancy_Naive

        Only in the military you can’t. In the real world, Cap’n, I can demand access and then refuse to enter.

        1. sherlockj Avatar
          sherlockj

          Vaccination as a condition of employment. Then one’s personal vaccination philosophy doesn’t matter to that particular job.

          But there is a big world out there that may not require the shots as a condition of employment, or perhaps it will.

          Perhaps one soon won’t be able to get on an airplane or train without a vaccination. The President is big on masks and vaccinations.

          But one can probably continue to drive without being vaccinated. Perhaps.

          1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
            Nancy_Naive

            It’s not philosophy. It’s additional quality of testing.

        2. WayneS Avatar
          WayneS

          “In the real world, Cap’n, I can demand access and then refuse to enter.”

          Yes, but as Birdperson once said, “on my home planet that is considered a dick move”.

  3. Andelaine Avatar
    Andelaine

    “There is no difference between mandating polio vaccines for school kids and mandating teacher and staff COVID vaccinations. None.”
    Actually, there are a myriad of differences between these two “vaccines”.

    Firstly, the Polio vaccine is an APPROVED traditional “vaccine” where it is a “dead” version of the Polio Virus, unlike the current Pfizer and Modena “vaccines”. The Covid-19 “vaccine” are EXPERIMENTAL, they are not APPROVED and are mRNA based shots, they are not “dead” version of the Corona Virus that causes Covid-19.

    Also the Polio vaccine used in the United States has been in use since 1987 and provides 90% immunity (protection) to all three types of poliovirus; 3 doses provides at least 99% immunity. That’s more than 30 years of clinical and safety data for Polio. The mRNA shot for Covid-19 is only a few months old and has not gone through the normal safety studies that drugs must go through to be fully approved.

    Also, the Covid-19 shot does not guarantee immunity, nor does it keep you from spreading the disease if you become infected after receiving the shot.
    This straight from the CDC site:
    “We also don’t yet know whether getting a COVID-19 vaccine will prevent you from spreading the virus that causes COVID-19 to other people, even if you don’t get sick yourself. CDC will continue to update this page as we learn more.”

    So to say that “There is no difference between mandating polio vaccines” and for “mandating teacher and staff COVID vaccinations.” is absolutely not true. And the difference is certainly is not “None.”

    1. sherlockj Avatar
      sherlockj

      We are in the process of trying to vaccinate the 3/4 of Americans who are over 18. Vaccine trials are being done for children as young as 12. When that is successful, the trials will go to even younger children. If you are looking for a guarantee, look elsewhere.

      For the rest, see my reply to Nancy above.

      Interjecting that teachers should not have to get vaccinated in that background environment is special pleading that is nothing short of spectacular.

  4. Andelaine Avatar
    Andelaine

    “There is no difference between mandating polio vaccines for school kids and mandating teacher and staff COVID vaccinations. None.”
    Actually, there are a myriad of differences between these two “vaccines”.

    Firstly, the Polio vaccine is an APPROVED traditional “vaccine” where it is a “dead” version of the Polio Virus, unlike the current Pfizer and Modena “vaccines”. The Covid-19 “vaccine” are EXPERIMENTAL, they are not APPROVED and are mRNA based shots, they are not “dead” version of the Corona Virus that causes Covid-19.

    Also the Polio vaccine used in the United States has been in use since 1987 and provides 90% immunity (protection) to all three types of poliovirus; 3 doses provides at least 99% immunity. That’s more than 30 years of clinical and safety data for Polio. The mRNA shot for Covid-19 is only a few months old and has not gone through the normal safety studies that drugs must go through to be fully approved.

    Also, the Covid-19 shot does not guarantee immunity, nor does it keep you from spreading the disease if you become infected after receiving the shot.
    This straight from the CDC site:
    “We also don’t yet know whether getting a COVID-19 vaccine will prevent you from spreading the virus that causes COVID-19 to other people, even if you don’t get sick yourself. CDC will continue to update this page as we learn more.”

    So to say that “There is no difference between mandating polio vaccines” and for “mandating teacher and staff COVID vaccinations.” is absolutely not true. And the difference is certainly is not “None.”

    1. sherlockj Avatar
      sherlockj

      We are in the process of trying to vaccinate the 3/4 of Americans who are over 18. Vaccine trials are being done for children as young as 12. When that is successful, the trials will go to even younger children. If you are looking for a guarantee, look elsewhere.

      For the rest, see my reply to Nancy above.

      Interjecting that teachers should not have to get vaccinated in that background environment is special pleading that is nothing short of spectacular.

  5. kls59 Avatar
    kls59

    If a teacher/staff member refuses the vaccine they can then sign a release form so the school system cannot be held liable should they contract C-19.

    If they fail to do that, their employment is ‘not guaranteed’ and they can find another line of work.

    PERIOD!

    Teach in person, or move on – -maybe they can ‘code’ or become a solar panel technician.

    1. sherlockj Avatar
      sherlockj

      What about the kids? Do they sign a waiver for their teachers or cafeteria workers not being vaccinated?

      1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
        Nancy_Naive

        Are the kids vaccinated?

        1. sherlockj Avatar
          sherlockj

          Testing of vaccines for kids as young as 12 for vaccines is in progress. When/if that is successful, testing will begin on younger children. Right now, children will depend upon adults getting vaccinated, such as their teachers.

          It will take time, and no one knows how much, for child vaccinations to be tested, approved, produced in quantity, distributed and injected.

          So we are back where we started. Mandate vaccinations for school teachers and administrators.

  6. kls59 Avatar
    kls59

    If a teacher/staff member refuses the vaccine they can then sign a release form so the school system cannot be held liable should they contract C-19.

    If they fail to do that, their employment is ‘not guaranteed’ and they can find another line of work.

    PERIOD!

    Teach in person, or move on – -maybe they can ‘code’ or become a solar panel technician.

    1. sherlockj Avatar
      sherlockj

      What about the kids? Do they sign a waiver for their teachers or cafeteria workers not being vaccinated?

      1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
        Nancy_Naive

        Are the kids vaccinated?

        1. sherlockj Avatar
          sherlockj

          Testing of vaccines for kids as young as 12 for vaccines is in progress. When/if that is successful, testing will begin on younger children. Right now, children will depend upon adults getting vaccinated, such as their teachers.

          It will take time, and no one knows how much, for child vaccinations to be tested, approved, produced in quantity, distributed and injected.

          So we are back where we started. Mandate vaccinations for school teachers and administrators.

  7. djrippert Avatar
    djrippert

    My understanding is that even the US military is not mandating the vaccine until such time as it becomes FDA approved.

    Given that, I think kls59 is on the right track. If you have access to the vaccine but refuse the jab then you sign a waiver and get back into the classroom. Or, you find a new line of work. There should be no “accommodations” for teachers or staff to work from home if they were offered the vaccine and refused it.

    1. sherlockj Avatar
      sherlockj

      I agree that there should be no accommodations for teachers to work from home if they refuse the vaccine.

      I don’t agree with individual waiver. That waiver protects the school from being sued by that employee, teacher of cafeteria worker or whatever, but nothing else.

      Remember that the Governor and General Assembly refused to grant the schools immunity from COVID-related tort suits. And remember the kids are not as vulnerable as adults and usually have milder symptoms, but it happens. Do their parents get to approve the waivers for the adults?

      It’s an unsolvable mess unless the teachers and administrators get the vaccine.

      1. djrippert Avatar
        djrippert

        “Remember that the Governor and General Assembly refused to grant the schools immunity from COVID-related tort suits.”

        Now you’ve gotten to the heart of the matter.

        What liability should employers (of any stripe) have if one of their employees refuses the vaccine and infects others?

        Schools are interesting but nursing homes are far more of an issue.

        Should “failure to vaccinate” be a cause for dismissal in nursing homes? Hospitals? Restaurants?

        Should a waiter who refuses to get vaccinated be able to get an “accommodation” to take your order via FaceTime rather than be terminated by the restaurant?

        1. Nathan Avatar
          Nathan

          My mom is being cared for in a nursing home. All of the staff have been vaccinated. Unlike teachers, they don’t seem to have a problem with doing so. They realize the necessity to do their jobs.

          I approved for my mother to be vaccinated. If she wasn’t vaccinated, I would have been required to accept all additional costs that might arise should she contract COVID-19.

          My wife works in the local school system and has been given the first shot. Not all teachers agree with the teachers unions and those who are refusing provide in person instruction or be vaccinated.

          It is, however, troubling to me that so many of those who have chosen teaching as a profession take their responsibilities so lightly.

  8. djrippert Avatar
    djrippert

    My understanding is that even the US military is not mandating the vaccine until such time as it becomes FDA approved.

    Given that, I think kls59 is on the right track. If you have access to the vaccine but refuse the jab then you sign a waiver and get back into the classroom. Or, you find a new line of work. There should be no “accommodations” for teachers or staff to work from home if they were offered the vaccine and refused it.

    1. sherlockj Avatar
      sherlockj

      I agree that there should be no accommodations for teachers to work from home if they refuse the vaccine.

      I don’t agree with individual waiver. That waiver protects the school from being sued by that employee, teacher of cafeteria worker or whatever, but nothing else.

      Remember that the Governor and General Assembly refused to grant the schools immunity from COVID-related tort suits. And remember the kids are not as vulnerable as adults and usually have milder symptoms, but it happens. Do their parents get to approve the waivers for the adults?

      It’s an unsolvable mess unless the teachers and administrators get the vaccine.

      1. djrippert Avatar
        djrippert

        “Remember that the Governor and General Assembly refused to grant the schools immunity from COVID-related tort suits.”

        Now you’ve gotten to the heart of the matter.

        What liability should employers (of any stripe) have if one of their employees refuses the vaccine and infects others?

        Schools are interesting but nursing homes are far more of an issue.

        Should “failure to vaccinate” be a cause for dismissal in nursing homes? Hospitals? Restaurants?

        Should a waiter who refuses to get vaccinated be able to get an “accommodation” to take your order via FaceTime rather than be terminated by the restaurant?

        1. Nathan Avatar
          Nathan

          My mom is being cared for in a nursing home. All of the staff have been vaccinated. Unlike teachers, they don’t seem to have a problem with doing so. They realize the necessity to do their jobs.

          I approved for my mother to be vaccinated. If she wasn’t vaccinated, I would have been required to accept all additional costs that might arise should she contract COVID-19.

          My wife works in the local school system and has been given the first shot. Not all teachers agree with the teachers unions and those who are refusing provide in person instruction or be vaccinated.

          It is, however, troubling to me that so many of those who have chosen teaching as a profession take their responsibilities so lightly.

  9. Nancy_Naive Avatar
    Nancy_Naive

    How, uh, what’s the word? Ah! Authoritarian! How authoritarian of you. Wait? Wherever could you have learned such demanding by superiors and kowtowing by the masses?

    1. sherlockj Avatar
      sherlockj

      Catholic school.

  10. Nancy_Naive Avatar
    Nancy_Naive

    How, uh, what’s the word? Ah! Authoritarian! How authoritarian of you. Wait? Wherever could you have learned such demanding by superiors and kowtowing by the masses?

    1. sherlockj Avatar
      sherlockj

      Catholic school.

  11. Nancy_Naive Avatar
    Nancy_Naive

    Hmmm, amazing how Republicans are always insisting that the government has the right to put things in your body, while denying you the right to remove things from your body.

    1. sherlockj Avatar
      sherlockj

      You have my permission to remove anything from your body that you may desire.

      1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
        Nancy_Naive

        Does that go for women too?

        1. sherlockj Avatar
          sherlockj

          You’re not a woman? Have you told anyone?

          1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
            Nancy_Naive

            Neutered male, aka long married, just like the rest of us.

  12. Nancy_Naive Avatar
    Nancy_Naive

    Hmmm, amazing how Republicans are always insisting that the government has the right to put things in your body, while denying you the right to remove things from your body.

    1. sherlockj Avatar
      sherlockj

      You have my permission to remove anything from your body that you may desire.

      1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
        Nancy_Naive

        Does that go for women too?

        1. sherlockj Avatar
          sherlockj

          You’re not a woman? Have you told anyone?

          1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
            Nancy_Naive

            Neutered male, aka long married, just like the rest of us.

  13. Anonymous_Bosch Avatar
    Anonymous_Bosch

    So I guess that you are ok with Schools firing anyone who refuses the vaccine? I am also guessing that you have a plan in place to replace anyone who is fired? Seeing as how there is no shortage of quality teachers and they are easily replaceable, your plan must be well thought out. You are dealing with civilians now bro, threatening them doesn’t work like it does with jarheads. Most estimates are that 20-30% of the population will not get vaccinated willingly. If 20% of teachers were fired our schools would cease to function. People are going to need to be persuaded, not threatened.

    1. sherlockj Avatar
      sherlockj

      Yes I am.

      If you think teachers are going to resign in large numbers if they are required to get vaccinated, you are welcome to that opinion, but that is not the way to bet.

      The big COVID teacher loss has already happened, largely because of the lack of a vaccine and the idiotic responses of the school districts that put demands on teachers that exceeded their capacities.

      1. Anonymous_Bosch Avatar
        Anonymous_Bosch

        Well everyone has a limit. Threats from the government will only help some people reach their limit sooner. Maybe you can get Pelosi on board with imprisoning people who don’t get a vaccine. She was all about that when the individual health insurance mandate was getting people worked up. At least you’re in good company.

        1. sherlockj Avatar
          sherlockj

          Pretty extreme. Just a job. All the threats to this point have been coming from the teachers’ unions. Condition of employment. If you choose not to do it, it’s a free country.

          1. Anonymous_Bosch Avatar
            Anonymous_Bosch

            So your response to a threat that you don’t like is to respond with a threat that they don’t like? You should write a book on effective leadership strategies. And as far as this being a free country, I keep hearing that but it seems to be less self apparent by the day. Governance through coercion, yeah that sounds like a free country to me.

          2. Nathan Avatar
            Nathan

            I personally think it’s premature to mandate vaccinations for school teachers. What should be mandated is that they do the job they were hired to do. That’s how the rest of the world works.

            As long as they show up for work and do their job, I don’t think we should demand vaccinations at this juncture, especially since young people aren’t particularly threatened by COVID-19. (Healthcare workers serving in nursing homes are another matter.)

            I do think that teachers should be required to disclose if they refuse vaccination to allow parents with children who have medical conditions to be moved into classrooms with vaccinated teachers.

            Perhaps down the road mandates may be appropriate. I’m not there yet, however, for teachers.

  14. Anonymous_Bosch Avatar
    Anonymous_Bosch

    So I guess that you are ok with Schools firing anyone who refuses the vaccine? I am also guessing that you have a plan in place to replace anyone who is fired? Seeing as how there is no shortage of quality teachers and they are easily replaceable, your plan must be well thought out. You are dealing with civilians now bro, threatening them doesn’t work like it does with jarheads. Most estimates are that 20-30% of the population will not get vaccinated willingly. If 20% of teachers were fired our schools would cease to function. People are going to need to be persuaded, not threatened.

    1. sherlockj Avatar
      sherlockj

      Yes I am.

      If you think teachers are going to resign in large numbers if they are required to get vaccinated, you are welcome to that opinion, but that is not the way to bet.

      The big COVID teacher loss has already happened, largely because of the lack of a vaccine and the idiotic responses of the school districts that put demands on teachers that exceeded their capacities.

      1. Anonymous_Bosch Avatar
        Anonymous_Bosch

        Well everyone has a limit. Threats from the government will only help some people reach their limit sooner. Maybe you can get Pelosi on board with imprisoning people who don’t get a vaccine. She was all about that when the individual health insurance mandate was getting people worked up. At least you’re in good company.

        1. sherlockj Avatar
          sherlockj

          Pretty extreme. Just a job. All the threats to this point have been coming from the teachers’ unions. Condition of employment. If you choose not to do it, it’s a free country.

          1. Anonymous_Bosch Avatar
            Anonymous_Bosch

            So your response to a threat that you don’t like is to respond with a threat that they don’t like? You should write a book on effective leadership strategies. And as far as this being a free country, I keep hearing that but it seems to be less self apparent by the day. Governance through coercion, yeah that sounds like a free country to me.

          2. Nathan Avatar
            Nathan

            I personally think it’s premature to mandate vaccinations for school teachers. What should be mandated is that they do the job they were hired to do. That’s how the rest of the world works.

            As long as they show up for work and do their job, I don’t think we should demand vaccinations at this juncture, especially since young people aren’t particularly threatened by COVID-19. (Healthcare workers serving in nursing homes are another matter.)

            I do think that teachers should be required to disclose if they refuse vaccination to allow parents with children who have medical conditions to be moved into classrooms with vaccinated teachers.

            Perhaps down the road mandates may be appropriate. I’m not there yet, however, for teachers.

  15. Eric the Half a Troll Avatar
    Eric the Half a Troll

    Do they get to claim a Religious Exemption too?

    1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
      Nancy_Naive

      No. That’s only for mandates proposed by Democrats.

  16. Eric the Half a Troll Avatar
    Eric the Half a Troll

    Do they get to claim a Religious Exemption too?

    1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
      Nancy_Naive

      No. That’s only for mandates proposed by Democrats.

  17. sherlockj Avatar
    sherlockj

    I suspect this will move through the federal court system at some point.

    Under federal law, employers can set conditions of employment appropriate to the jobs the offer. The employer’s judgement on that is the standard unless it can be shown to be discriminatory.

    My take is that the requirement that teachers teach inside the schools, if challenged, will be upheld. I suspect that a requirement that they be vaccinated to do so, based on all of the other school vaccination requirements in existence, will very likely be upheld as well.

    I suspect we’ll find out.

    1. Nathan Avatar
      Nathan

      You may be correct about the future, but I think the emphasis at this point should be for teachers to teach. That’s what most urgent in my view.

      At this stage, if some teachers don’t want the vaccine there are many of us who don’t yet qualify who will GLADLY take it.

      I’m about to turn 64 and won’t qualify for some time, but would really like to be vaccinated because I am retired and am around others who are elderly and vulnerable.

  18. sherlockj Avatar
    sherlockj

    I suspect this will move through the federal court system at some point.

    Under federal law, employers can set conditions of employment appropriate to the jobs the offer. The employer’s judgement on that is the standard unless it can be shown to be discriminatory.

    My take is that the requirement that teachers teach inside the schools, if challenged, will be upheld. I suspect that a requirement that they be vaccinated to do so, based on all of the other school vaccination requirements in existence, will very likely be upheld as well.

    I suspect we’ll find out.

    1. Nathan Avatar
      Nathan

      You may be correct about the future, but I think the emphasis at this point should be for teachers to teach. That’s what most urgent in my view.

      At this stage, if some teachers don’t want the vaccine there are many of us who don’t yet qualify who will GLADLY take it.

      I’m about to turn 64 and won’t qualify for some time, but would really like to be vaccinated because I am retired and am around others who are elderly and vulnerable.

  19. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
    James Wyatt Whitehead V

    So I have a 7th grader up at Randolph Macon Academy in Front Royal. I asked about staff vaccinations. 100% of the staff have been vaccinated. This includes everybody from the teachers to the custodians. No pushback from staff, no commotion. Everybody is doing their part to keep the school open. Even the day school families, that do not board, have done a good job practicing the habits of mind to limit the number of infections to a mere handful. Maybe the public school boards should consider not renewing teacher contracts that pushback against vaccinations?

  20. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
    James Wyatt Whitehead V

    So I have a 7th grader up at Randolph Macon Academy in Front Royal. I asked about staff vaccinations. 100% of the staff have been vaccinated. This includes everybody from the teachers to the custodians. No pushback from staff, no commotion. Everybody is doing their part to keep the school open. Even the day school families, that do not board, have done a good job practicing the habits of mind to limit the number of infections to a mere handful. Maybe the public school boards should consider not renewing teacher contracts that pushback against vaccinations?

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